Do You Have to Say the Pledge of Allegiance? | West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2017
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In episode 19 of Supreme Court Briefs, a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses don't salute the American flag nor say the Pledge of Allegiance, and almost everybody else freaks out about it.
Produced by Matt Beat. Music by Matt Beat (Electric Needle Room). All images found in public domain or used under fair use guidelines.
Check out cool primary sources here:
www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/...
Other sources:
wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1...
thejehovahswitnesses.org/about...
www.dailybulldog.com/db/opinio...
www.law.cornell.edu/supremeco...
www.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/us...
www.nytimes.com/1988/09/11/us/...
www.britannica.com/event/West...
caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme...
Germany
The 1930s
The Nazis arrest thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses across the country who refuse to salute the Nazi flag. Why didn’t they salute the Nazi flag? Well, for starters, it’s against their religion to salute a flag, as they believe by doing so idolizes the state rather than God.
After these German Jehovah’s Witnesses were thrown into concentration camps for not saluting the Nazi flag, leaders of the church in the United States called for an end of participation in daily flag salutes that had become mandatory in American schools.
Anyway, because the children of Jehovah’s Witnesses refused to salute the American flag and refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance, they got in a lot of trouble. Some administrators even threatened to send these kids to juvy or have their parents arrested.
In Minersville, Pennsylvania, a dad named Walter Gobitas had his children not participate in the Pledge. By doing so, the entire family was actually breaking a local law, and they all became marginalized and were straight up attacked by the other citizens of Minersville. Residents boycotted the Gobitas family store, and the kids were bullied at school. One of them had rocks thrown at her. Another one was hurt after his teacher tried to force his hand out to salute the flag during the Pledge. The kids, of course, were eventually expelled for their Pledge boycotts.
But their dad, Walter, fought the law that forced students to salute the flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance. Gobitas based his argument on the fact he thought the law violated both the First and Fourteenth Amendments. His case ended up going all the way to the Supreme Court. That case, announced on June 3, 1940, was called Minersville School District v. Gobitis...yeah, a clerk misspelled Gobitas’ name on court records. Details, right? Anyway, the Court ruled against Gobitis, arguing that the law that forced students to say the pledge was NOT a violation of religious freedom. It was an 8-1 decision, with Justice Felix Frankfurter, one of the dudes who started the American Civil Liberties Union, ironically, giving the majority opinion.
So yeah, things were not looking so good after this case for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially since now they were huge targets for continuing to refuse to say the pledge. Nearly 1500 Jehovah’s Witness were physically attacked in over 300 cities across the country. In Wyoming, one was tarred and feathered. Some were lynched. Others were forced out of town after having their homes burned to the ground.
This made Supreme Court justices like Frank Murphy feel guilty. Murphy actually said he regretted his decision in the Gobitis case and wanted an opportunity to revisit the issue.
Sure enough, that opportunity came fairly quickly, as Jehovah’s Witnesses boldly continued to defy the Pledge and flag salute. On January 9, 1942, the West Virginia State Board of Education ordered all teachers and students in the state to salute the flag and say the Pledge. Well, this story sounds familiar. Another dad, this one named Walter Barnett, had his kids not salute the flag nor recite the Pledge. And again, the principal expelled those kids, whose names were Marie and Gathie Barnett. However, on the advice of a lawyer, Walter sent his kids right back to school, where they were called “Nazis” and “Japs” by fellow classmates. And….each day, the school would send them right back home.
The Barnetts sued the State Board of Education, taking them to the United States District Court for themselves and other families who were fighting the same thing.
#supremecourt #scotus #apush
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The pledge has always been a weird one for me. The fact that we demand that kids - who have no idea what it means - recite it every morning before school is just bananas. It just seems like one of those rites of passage... you have to do it because I had to do it. But actually pay attention to the words. What is pledging allegiance? Undying, unwavering, unquestioning loyalty. Really? We're going to force little kids, who again have little idea what that means, pledge undying loyalty to something? Imagine if we made kids recite the Night's Watch oath every morning - and hold them to it.
Wise words. I agree, you cannot force patriotism onto people, and the Pledge does seem a bit like indoctrination.
According to this case they couldn't require it if they wanted to. Kansas has a statute require the Pledge, but ultimately can't force a person to stand and say it.
KnowingBetter I see your point but I think it’s great that we say the pledge of allegiance, and also am glad that people don’t have to participate if they don’t want to.
Alex - why do you think it's great? Nothing at all would change if schools stopped doing it. It's an empty exercise that at best gives kids yet another thing to rebel against. The United States shouldn't demand fealty of its citizens. You're not even pledging allegiance to a king or queen or a president, but to an abstract concept of a country - a thing which could never ask you to uphold your pledge. Nobody has ever been held to this false oath. It's utterly pointless.
I told my kids to actually listen to what is being said and ask if they feel that way. Of course, due to peer- pressure, they all recite it I'm sure, thinking it's hogwash.
Imagine how brainwashed you have to be to burn someone's house down because they don't pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth.
Twisted.
🦅🦅🦅
I moved to the US from Canada as a kid, and during my first day of school, after PA announcements, everyone in my new classroom stood up and started a bizarre chant that I'd never heard before. I was befuddled that a bunch of bored kids blandly spat out some words in unison like it was a chore.
Anyway, I was still sitting, and the teacher asked me, "why aren't you reciting the pledge like the rest of the class?" And she was really pissed about it. I'm like, "what pledge?" and she goes on about the Pledge of Allegiance being recited everyday and how it was "patriotic" to recite it at school. (This was in Upstate NY, which is like Alabama minus its single virtue of good southern cooking.) I told her I had no idea what this Pledge of Allegiance was, had never heard it before, and having lived in Canada had never done a daily pledge to anything. Her response: "well that's no excuse! Learn it by tomorrow morning or else."
Years later, after I'd graduated high school, I come to find out that the Pledge nonsense is completely optional. Oh well.
Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing. So Canada apparently doesn't have anything similar. And no, it is not "patriotic" to be forced to recite allegiance to a flag. If it has to be forced, it can't be! :)
ow, back in the early 1960's, I was a student in Phx Az. I was a good little Canuck. And sadly bullied to no end. But none-the-less, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. So, I learned the Pledge, and to sing, and like, The SSB, and the Marine Hymn. This introduced me to Souza. I guess we were different back then. In the end, I benefited. In the end, I also liked Star Trek. Look up Shatner's reading of the Preamble, under "E Pleb Nesta", on RUclips. Has it even been read better? I think not.
So, every day, in grade school, we went and pledged, and saluted, and sang, and marched. I missed that, when I returned to high school, and university, and college, in Canada. In high school, we sang O Canada twice in 2 years. Of course, no one knew the words. There is no Pledge up here. In university: 2x in 5 years. In college 1x in 2 yrs. The music plays at hockey games. Few sing. Saluting is reserved for The Monarch. (As it should be!) Altho soldiers do salute the flag.
On the other hand, (where ever) if you do not want to pray, salute, sing, or what not, well, you know, you have that right, too. So it may be best to leave you alone, to be an eclectic type.
I would type the pledge in here, but then, you can google that today, so that is no proof. And our version back then did include the "under god" clause. Of course, this brings to point: Which god or gods?
Anyhow, thanks for letting me bloviate. SHARED! Great video!
Mathew, we went through the same thing. And survived! And came out stronger, better, faster, smarter. Daaaamm,. We near perfect!
Funny Australia has a pledge as well, but as far as I can tell is a pretty new thing and is mostly done at public celebrations such as Australia Day (which just passed) among others. However, it has no force of law and is meant to be voluntary, but I wonder if most people down under know that.
@@iammrbeat Like virtually no Western country except for the States has something like that. Nor Russia. The closest thing would probably be North Korea.
@@iammrbeat The closest thing we have to the pledge is standing for O-Canada at the begining of the day and that's it.
Frankly I think pleading an alliance to a flag is ridiculous.
Kids are ABSOLUTELY still bullied for not standing. In my elementary school (about 2013) there was a Asian girl who wasn’t born in the us who refused to say the pledge and many students including young me bullied her for it.
😢
I am a cali public school teacher & I NEVER force my students say the pledge, given that they have no idea what it means! Its stupid unethical !
One of my brother's high school teachers actually graded people if they said the pledge. But him and some others wrote to the school staff and I believe even mentioned this case in their messages. The staff said they were right and told the teacher he couldn't grade people on reciting the pledge.
Thankfully it didn't turn into a big issue.
Yep something like that shouldn't even be considered a big issue.
I went to elementary school with a Jehovah's Witness. She sat during the pledge of allegiance. Then came the Vietnam War and many of us sat or stood silently. I still feel uncomfortable around the pledge of allegiance. All that flag waving during the Vietnam War.
I think this is one of the most interesting Supreme Court cases to be honest.I am glad you did it especially since most people still believe that reciting the Pledge is mandatory.I don’t agree with the Jehovah’s Witness faith,but no one deserves to be treated unequally because they choose not to do something for themselves due to their beliefs.
+Delightfully Dakota Well put. Agreed. It's a shame they were persecuted so much for this (and still apparently are)
Imagine being murdered because your kid wouldn't say the indoctrination song.
I don't agree with the JW faith at all, but I certainly wouldn't participate in the pledge myself
Jehovah's Witnesses - a great example of how suffering through the consequences civil disobedience makes a positive difference!
There was a difference from the Bellamy Salute and the Nazi one, BTW. At the end of the pledge, the hand is turned upwards
+The Cynical Historian Yes, thanks for pointing out that distinction. I omitted that to be a bit provocative.
I had a lot of classmates get suspended for long periods of time because they wouldn't stand for the pledge. As a kid, I always stood up and said the pledge until one day a bunch of parents were in the classroom and my mom didn't say the pledge like everyone else. My teacher was very confused by this and my mom said she was just exercising her rights. from then on I realized it wasn't required.
"Dissent should be protected." Right on!
It's also nice to be reminded that today's flag-worshiping nationalism isn't something with sudden momentum, but rather just something seeing increasing media coverage.
Most definitely! Thanks for watching :D
Yea
How do you feel about sitting down during the Pledge of Allegiance or kneeling during the National Anthem? For those of you outside of the United States, are you surprised at how fired up Americans are getting about this issue?
I've stopped being surprised at how backwards americans are on issues that were settled decades ago in Europe.
Gun control, flag salutes, lgbtq* issues, women's rights, presidential elections ... I'm not sure if we can even call the USA a developed modern democracy anymore.
How? How is restricting gun control aiding in democracy? Isn't taking away a person's right to bear arms impugning on their liberty? Flag salutes? People may be passionate and nationalistic, but you are fully in your right to salute or not salute the flag. LGBTQ issues - this is coming from Europe? The US recognized gay marriage way before a lot of European nations. If I'm keeping up with my European news Germany only recognized gay marriage nationwide this year. Women's rights? Every woman in this nation has had the right to get an abortion since 1973 after the Roe v. Wade decision. Women have had discrimination protections since 1964 with the passage of the Civil Rights Act. Presidential elections? Seriously? This is coming from Europe where the people don't even get to choose their head of government, in most of them they only get to vote for their MP who then vote for Prime Minister. I can't believe that Europeans still view themselves as a bastion of democracy when the wide majority of their national parliaments have a completely unelected upper house, whereas the Senate is directly elected. In most European nations elections for the lower house happen every 4-6 years, in the US they happen every other year. In European nations Parliament can be dissolved(in the US this is impossible) and can schedule elections whenever they want(like the most recent UK general election) instead of in a fixed pattern like the US. In most of the unitary states that make up Europe, there is very little power to local and provincial governments unlike the US, so citizen participation in government is restricted to only the federal government which completely diminishes the average person's voice. The US has its fair share of issues, but Europe is not an example of what we should strive for.
>How is restricting gun control aiding in democracy?
Gun control is unrelated to democracy.
>Isn't taking away a person's right to bear arms impugning on their liberty?
No. There is no actual right to bear arms. It's a fictional right that only exists in the USA, with all associated problems. No developed country in the world recognizes a right to bear arms.
I live in Germany, a country with very strict sensible gun control. Only hunters and people at shooting ranges are allowed to own rifles. Liberty is no impugned here at all.
>The US has its fair share of issues, but Europe is not an example of what we should strive for
Not the entirety of Europe. I agree that different member states have their issue. But Holland and Belgium are. And at the very least, the USA could adopt the EDHR. That document alone makes every european country superior to the USA.
ahouyearno You don't understand how people live in the United States. In large parts of the nation the villages and towns are so large the police cannot adequately protect the population, so having a gun is the only way that many people in rural communities can defend themselves. Urbanites will never understand this unless they actually visit these places. Democracy cannot properly exist without a protection of these rights, including the right to bear arms which is how people can protect themselves and their property. And no, Belgium and the Netherlands are not shining examples of democracy. Like i mentioned before, and you didn't respond to, both of these nations have indirectly elected Senates, the US has a fully directly elected Senate. Both of these nations restrict free speech much more than the US has ever dreamt of(hate speech laws) and in both of these nations the people cannot directly elected the head of government. Also, the head of government in both of these nations has no term limit, whereas in the US the President has a very reasonable 2 term limit. Are you going to address the lack of local power in Europe, the lack of direct elections for their upper houses, and the lack of direct elections for their head of government?
>You don't understand how people live in the United States. In large parts of the nation the villages and towns are so large the police cannot adequately protect the population, so having a gun is the only way that many people in rural communities can defend themselves
If Tokyo can be safe, then every city in the USA can be safe as well.
Your country is failing you.
>And no, Belgium and the Netherlands are not shining examples of democracy
Compared to the USA, they are.
I'm the first to admit that Belgium is not a shining example of democracy but it's a thousand times better than the USA
>Like i mentioned before, and you didn't respond to, both of these nations have indirectly elected Senates, the US has a fully directly elected Senate
Your senate is currently not representative. Every state gets 2 senators which means it's not a democratic institution. It is not proportional. The belgian and dutch systems are superior to your senate. Our senate represents the people, yours doesn't.
>Both of these nations restrict free speech much more than the US has ever dreamt of(hate speech laws) and in both of these nations the people cannot directly elected the head of government
Yes. The freedom of speech laws in Belgium are superior to those in the USA
I agree that we should have a directly elected head of state, although a head of government should always be done through coalition talks, not direct elections.
Let's not pretend the USA has direct elections for president. Trump lost the vote. He only won because of your flawed indirect elections.
>Also, the head of government in both of these nations has no term limit, whereas in the US the President has a very reasonable 2 term limit
The prime minister of Belgium is a head of government and as such much less powerful than the US president who is head of state as well. Heads of state should have term limits. If you don't understand how coalition governments work, you shouldn't be commenting on it.
>Are you going to address the lack of local power in Europe, the lack of direct elections for their upper houses, and the lack of direct elections for their head of government?
I just did for your entertainment. In all cases, Belgium and Holland are superior to the USA as a democratic nation.
I remember my first time seeing a kid not stand for the pledge or allegiance. I was in 1st grade (2006 about) and this kid was the son of a diplomat from another country. We all thought it was weird, but I don't remember anyone making fun of him for it.
+TheLizzerd Sounds like you had a school that understood the law
@@iammrbeat since his dad is a diplomat from a different country hes not a us citizen right
@@anaverageaccount4403 No, anyone born in the United States, who has at least one parent born in the United States, was naturalized or was a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the constitution is a United States citizen.
@@the4tierbridge??? Maybe you should watch mr beat’s video on wong kim ark
"You need to salute and worship the flag because people fought for your freedom, of which we are trying to take from you"
When I was a kid, I rarely recited the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of class because doing so would make me yawn uncontrollably, causing my eyes to water real badly. It was embarrassing, so I would simply stand and not say anything. I had no idea what the words we were reciting meant anyways. The whole exercise was worthless, but I suppose that statement could apply to most of what I did in school.
+Charles Magnuson I hear you and definitely can relate.
I grew up in a fairly rural part of the country, and it didn't even occur to me that such an act was even reasonable until some of my more liberal classmates stopped doing it in late 2016, which was in the middle of my senior year of high school. I had grown up in a very conservative home, and my father was the son and older brother of members of the military, so patriotism was always expected of me. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you see this), since I was raised in a very conservative place, the idea didn't even dawn on me until a particular person was picked to preside over the country (i.e. Mr. Trump). As far as I'm aware, the time for the pledge to be recited is still around in my school, but no one enforces whether you say it or not, for pretty obvious reasons.
What does Trump's election have to do with anything?
When I was in 3rd grade my teacher grabbed my hand trying to make me salute but I didn't because we believe saluting the flag is like worshipping the flag but we only worship the living god Jehovah and know one will make me period
Jehovah will make you period.
It is a first amendment right to sit during the pledge. It is Authoritarianism to force anyone to stand for the pledge.
I don’t force my students to stand or do anything during the pledge, but I do require they remain respectfully quiet for those students who do want to take part.
I honestly think it’s silly. Most of the kids saying it don’t even understand all the words and often garble them into nonsense. They are just repeating sounds they were taught.
This take is really stupid. The constitution gave you that right. And whose constitution is it? It’s America’s.
@@RINSHOUJO Just to be clear, you're saying that you disagree with forcing people to stand for the pledge of allegiance?
I stopped saying the Pledge in 1979. I was a freshman in high school. I take offense to the phrase "liberty and justice for all." 2 years later, I was suspended for it. They called it "insubordination" which was the word they used to punish you when you spoke your mind.
Why would you be offended by liberty and justice for all? Would you not want liberty and justice for all?
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 because there is no liberty and justice for all.
@@stopmakingsense1543 exactly. I’m not allowed to rape people.
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 that don't make any sense.
History a little bit repeating itself now in the case of Kaepernick. It's unpatriotic to crap on players who take a knee on account of the country ain't yet fulfilled "justice for all". Supreme Court said so, ain't you heard?
Also, I have 100x more respect for Jahova's Witnesses now.
I totally respect Kaepernick's stance and freedoms or anyone else's. I just think it sucks that prolly 95% of people don't know the origins of the kneeling. Now it's just a Trumpist trolling move, which I'm also ok with :P
I do although stand for any nation's anthem as to show respect for it's sovereignty and peoples.
I remember back in high school in the second half of senior year. In the first week everyone in the class was doing the pledge but slowly over the next week or two some ppl started sitting down early and eventually not standing up at all.
Once it seemed like most of the class wasn’t doing it the teacher started wanting everyone up from their chair and almost everyone did except this one kid. When the teacher came to him and told em to stand up. He refused and then the teacher got mad and started calling him ungrateful towards the nation and the soldiers that fought for the US and then sent em to the dean’s office right after.
We never saw that kid again after that.
I was the first to sit down during the pledge during homeroom in protest of our war in Iraq. The flag’s ideals for which it represented had lost meaning through our actions. Today…I stand wholeheartedly for how dare I allow one man to affect my love of all for which it stands? When the flag is weakened…when the flag no longer stands, I must do so in defiance of those who seek to abuse and/or destroy. God Bless 🇺🇸!!!
Thank you for this video!
Don't forget that Justice Robert Jackson presided at the Nuremberg Trials.
Back in elementary years, I remember everyone I knew in the school having to say the pledge everyday from kindergarten to 6th, and no one questioned it! It's really concerning looking back now knowing about this case, and I only left elementary in 2019! It's crazy.
I find it interesting and slightly terrifying how forcefully America made people do things in the name of the state and still call it a free country. Especially in public schools.
I still find it slightly terrifying so many people believe the U.S. is the most free country in the world. I checked freedom house a while ago and, if I didn’t miscount, we were around 60th
It's a weird little-known fact that every time you say the Pledge of allegiance it's optional.
Great video. I work at a school, and I sometimes say the pledge in Latin (I had a few months when I was in school). Also, when I first starting working in schools, I had to fight the urge to say "amen" after it!
In Canada, only in elementary schools do we stand and sing the national anthem, although it still happens occasionally after elementary due to school assemblies
I find it interesting how different countries' citizens feel in terms of patriotic emotions about their flag. Here in the UK for example, there is no law that says people must salute the Union Jack, nor pledge an allegiance
I find it interesting we’re not asked to swear on oath to the Queen unless we’re elected to public office
I still had teachers that threatened me with detention in high school for not standing or reciting the pledge of allegiance.
Had a teacher in Middle School ( late 2000's) that failed us for the day if we didn't participate in the pledge, and yes he was a history teacher.
My school no longer lets kids recite the pledge, as no kid stood to do it!
"I pledge allegiance... to Queen Fragg and her mighty state of Hysteria"
- Calvin
I was a substitute teacher last year for a nearby school district. I did not stand once for the pledge. I was hoping that kids would notice, but I was in an elementary school, so I guess I was expecting too much of my kids, lol.
Back in 2011 I had a teacher in one of my classes in middle school tell all of us that 'we better all stand up for the pledge and flag' because quote "my son is in the Army". One of my friends didn't stand up one time because he was disassociating or didn't really care and that teacher basically got in his face and told him to stand.
I checked the school roster about two years later after I left and he was gone lol.
I used to sit during the pledge of the aligence but than I changed my mind
At my school (a high school) its far more likely to be bullied FOR actually saying the pledge though they dont care either way.
That's fascinating. May I ask what city or part of the country your high school is located in?
I said the pledge every morning of my school career… I served my country for 7 1/2 years… I would never want someone to take part in something that they morally object to.
I find this case fascinating. I am not a Jehovah's Witness, but I also refuse to say the pledge for almost the same reason - I have no problem pledging allegiance to my country, but I do have a problem pledging allegiance to a piece of fabric. This came up when I stopped saying the pledge in 1998 (when I became a Christian). At first, I stayed seated and just didn't participate at all. After a week or so, my teacher asked why, and only then because other kids were asking why. I had a few meetings with the principal and my preacher, and I made it clear that I was trying to stick to my conscience and not cause a disruption or make any kind of political statement. We reached the solution I've stuck to ever since: I stand up and face the flag with everyone else, but not put my hand over my heart or say the words. That completely resolved it. It has never been an issue since. If these people had been able to find such a middle ground, I wonder if this would have ever come up for them either.
i stand for the pledge, but i do not put my hand on my heart and say it. i just stand there.
I would pledge allegiance, but my protest was always dropping the words "under god" from it
So under moloch then
After staying seated during the pledge for the first few weeks of middle school, the vice principal had me brought to her office to tell me that if I didn't want to face the flag and say the pledge, I would have to leave the classroom before it started and come back in after it was over. She told me the reason I couldn't stay seated was because it was insulting to other students who had family members in the military
Tell her that's illegal, and your parents could sue the school for violating your rights.
I'm the person who doesn't say the pledge or stand for the anthem. As an atheist I don't say the pledge because of the phrase "under god".
I had something interesting and sorta kinda simmilar. While I was in High School I got suspended several times because I refused to stand or remove my hate for the "Land Recondition statement" where they say this land belongs to people it doesn't belong to yet at my school they demanded you repeat it and treat the land Recondition statement as if it were the national anthem, and if you didn't you got detention, suspension or a very firm talking to infront of the whole class
Wow, this court case is crazy. I personally do not stand up or recite the pledge of allegiance because I don't think America tries to withstand what the pledge is saying. To say that everyone has equal liberty and justice is not true and saying that it is "under god" is very offensive to me, considering it's a country with freedom of religion. In my opinion, forcing kids to recite this is unconstitutional and offensive.
Interestingly, "Under God" wasn't added to the Pledge until 1954. Are you still in school? Have you ever got in trouble for not standing up or reciting it?
Mr. Beat
I always skip that part, but still recite the rest.
I used to but mostly because I was a punk kid who was tired in the morning, not out of any real conviction.
I don't say the Pledge in school because I find it saluting the president of the United States which I hate I will not stand for the Pledge of Allegiance until he's out of office and anyone that doesn't like the President should do as well
I wish I knew this in high school so I didn’t have to get up in the dead of morning to say that pledge
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us. (19)
19 military service
How to dismantle a nation 101
I remember in middle school, around the time this video came out, that I had a friend who refused to stand for the pledge and he was given a dirty look by our teacher (who was very old school and would retire the next year) every day. Now, I'm a Junior in high school and there are 2-5 kids in my first hour classes that don't stand. I'm happy knowing that people aren't being pressured as much today to make a decision that goes against their religion. I don't see myself as an extremely religious person, but even I sometimes think about sitting for the pledge. It's just a very weird, cult like thing that I wonder about. I understand standing for the anthem, that makes a lot more sense to me. But the pledge has been on my mind recently, and seeing this video has sparked that again.
Why are they in America then if they don’t support the American flag which stands for America?
Aw man right now the west Virginia board of education's staff is striking
I visited minersville in WV my dad is in the federal prison, I gotta say that city is smack dab in the middle of no where and really a small town there. I can only imagine how it was back in the day, those kids must of been through hell, if u know how small towns have small town mindset.
President during this time: Franklin D. Roosevelt
Chief Justice: Harlan F. Stone
Argued March 11, 1943
Decided June 14, 1943
Case Duration: 95 Days
Decision: 6-3 in favor of Barnett (Harlan, Douglas, Black, Murphy, Jackson, Rutledge. (Reed, Roberts, Frankfurter for WV.)
Wonder if this case will be used to justify the kneeling protest that is ongoing
I always stand and recite the pledge but I resent forcing people to
I recited the pledge and saluted the flag in elementary school. Obviously, I was unaware of what it meant, and didn't give much thought to it. My classmates did the same, and none objected. My teachers _never_ forced it, but the school being in a progressive city may have been a contributing factor.
When I was a kid, one of my brother's friends was punished for not saying the pledge of allegiance, although I'm not aware of the full context. Much more minor than this though.
I would gladly pledge allegiance to the US Constitution, but the Stars and Stipes is merely a symbol, no matter how sacred some might see it, which represents the several states signed up to that Costitution. To pledge allegiance to a symbol is tantamount to pledging to love a photograph as much as the person pictured. I might die for the person, but not for their photo.
In my school, about 90% of students didn’t stand at all during the pledge of allegiance
Whoa. Why do you think?
I remember being forced to do the pledge in school
The ACLU had already existed. From 1921, when the case of Sacco and Vanzetti began in Massachusetts. ACLU was among the first organisations to publicly urge a review of the case, Justice Felix Frankfurter, then a law professor in New York, was on the side of the two Italian defendants in that case, saying in the press that the two men did *not* get a fair trial.
When I was in China, I really hate something similar to it. We do not do that every day, but sometimes we forced to say "We will fight for communism". I will say the Pledge of Allegiance is similar to it. And the Pledge of Allegiance even says the United States is not divisible - which I do not understand.
There’s an American song with a lyric that in basic meaning is similar to that, “And I'd gladly stand up next to you And defend Her still today” and when I was in elementary school we were basically forced to sing it. I find it really messed up as we were basically pledging to go to war as little kids
Obviously, I’m not in school in person, but when I get back, I’m not going to recite the pledge. Thanks!
How did it go?
Thank you, Barnettes.
Or Barnett.
If you had asked me maybe 5 years ago, I would say that I didnt have a problem with standing for the pledge, and that you should try to be patriotic even if you don't agree with the country.
However, nowadays, I find myself much more conflicted. Why should you pledge "allegiance to the republic and for which it stands" if you don't agree with what it stands for? I agree that the Barnett case was neccesary for the furthering of free speech.
Also, I really wish we would remove "under God" from the pledge of allegiance. America is not a Christian nation. Having it in the pledge is not only silly, but alienates a good portion of the nation.
You can blame Eisenhower for putting it in.
Bro my first period was lotc I just choose it cause I all the others sucked and didn’t know it was a military class it sucked doing the pledge cause other classes u chose no not this one. I left school for homeschooling not because of that the reasons are personal but that was like last month in Texas u still have to do it
I can't believe America still has the pledge, it's such an authoritarian thing to force kids to think positively of the country and not be free to protest it
Why should anyone think negatively of the country?
@@newwaveinfantry8362well there will always be issues with a country but I guess a place to start is that we are 60th in the world in terms of actual freedom
@@dylanfield7098 Again with these stupid indices. They are total bullshit. No other country has a population as free as the US. No other constitution goes to the same lengths to ensure that the government doesn't cease more power from the citizens and that really shows because every other country has been a dictatorship at some point.
I did not "say" the pledge throughout most of my time in high school
I stood and put my hand on my heart, but I very, VERY rarely said the words.
These days, it's virtually meaningless to me.
This Is America!!!!!
pleading allegiance to the flag is utterly ridiculous.
Can I deny military oaths for this specific principle?
I'm gonna try not to say the pledge
As a Irish person I see the Pledge of Allegiance like a cult thing I'm sorry to say
The pledge is such a creepy concept.
In my highschool the people who said the pledge were the outliers
I do say the pledge of allegiance, although I don’t say the “under God” part. I completely support the right of anyone who doesn’t say it though. Nobody should feel pressured to say the pledge of allegiance
I'm happy with this case. I don't say the pledge myself because our country does some messed up things, then glosses over them, or don't mention it at all!
I didn’t stop saying it until I kind of realized what I was saying in high school and stopped. Thinking back on it I’m really disgusted at all the things I mindlessly was told to say without thinking about what it meant. Especially in elementary school when we had to sing all sorts of “patriotic” songs every year with lyrics like “And I'd gladly stand up next to you And defend Her still today” (which I find kind of disturbing to make kids sing a lyric that implies pledging to go to war) and several lyrics that blindly claim the U.S.A is so free and that we all love it here.
I remember refusing to say the pledge in the mid 2000's on the3 grounds that it was indoctrination and kind of messed up. I didn't support the wars we were getting into post 9-11 so I outright refused to stand each morning.
Didn't get much pushback, I guess I had great teachers and classmates.
We had to say the pledge and the Lord's prayer in the 70's when I was in Junior high.
Was it a public school?
Public. As I recall I didn't even think it was odd. This was in a county in Virginia.
I remember saying the pledge because its what I've been doing my whole life. But one day I just said "eh", and that was that.
Damn it amazes me how ridiculous we still are even in modern times
Awesome video but that riding cymbal is driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crap. Sorry about that.
It's ok I still watched the whole thing! Dude Your videos are awesome! Btw If I can suggest do a Supreme Court Brief on Mapp v. Ohio and you should do a series on each of the 27 Amendments I'd definitely watch that. Keep up the good work
Great ideas and thanks so much for watching :D
Quakers and Mennonites also have similar objections to the pledge. They don't like to swear oaths and woukd rather affirm if absolutely necessary. It comes from the Sermon on the Mount in the New Testament.
Do you have to be dyslexic to become a SCotUS clerk??
Can you do DC v. Heller next?
Carlo oh yes, good one.
That's on my list, but it will be awhile before I get to that one. Unless
Mr. Beat unless I pay you?
Yeah the Patreon supporters get their suggestions moved up to the top of the list.
contract is to not hurt your fellow man . that lawsuit is breach of contract . to not hurt people or take sides with out facts is a breach of contract to all people in the world . they protect themselves and all people in world and obey the contract to not harm people . the permeant law of the universe even after earth is gone its still law.
Flag day? Oh snap.
For once republicans (as in the way you would use it outside of the USA) and Jehovah’s witnesses agree on something
4:15 oh the irony
Why the hell couldn't people spell back then.
From my perspective (not from the US) it sounds a lot like a cult to have to recite a pledge to something every day before school.
It can get even worse, in elementary school we had a day every year where we had to sing “patriotic” songs and one of the lyrics of one of the songs was basically the equivalent of having us all pledge to go to war, and we sung this as little kids. There were a lot of other messed up lyrics too
As someone who lives in WV, I never say The Pledge or salute. Yeah I get bullied for it, and my teachers roll their eyes at me, but I'm an atheist and since one of the lines relates to god,I have an excuse.
I remember people not standing for the pledge all the time but as far as i remembered no one gave a shit
Patrick Murphy
I remember being the odd one out being raised as a Jehovah witness not saying the pledge throughout my childhood. I'll be honest never I really cared about it
3:20 Bruh. Someone's being a bad old rebel.
Your Nazi soldiers rifles appear to be MAS 36's. A French rifle. I never heard of the Bellamy salute before, very interesting.
+Stalking Horse Yeah I just found some free stock footage and hoped people wouldn't notice. :)
Ever heard of the Roman salute or Olympic Salute?