i been 6 years in prison here in Norway. Some places are like this but most are not as good. But compared to the US we get treated like humans, not animals. I have not done drugs or any crime since i left prison 2 years ago
Good for you. I worked as a social worker (actually, more specifically, as a social supporting educator) in The Netherlands up to last year. But not inside a Dutch prison but in the community. In The Netherlands the justice system is also focussed on rehabilitation. I worked with former prison inmates. From an emotional perspective I understand the concept of revenge. What would you think about, and what would you wish for, the (hypothetically) murderer of your family? Would you wish the death penalty? Maybe. Maybe even probably. But what would this achieve? Except for the feeling that it sounds like justification and adds a superficial band-aid on your psyche making it maybe slightly more bearable to live with the grievous personal loss. And most incarcerated people are not murderers. And even the murderers are not the same. You cannot compare a crime passionel or even a road rage murderer with a sadistic psychopathic serial killer. But how many murderers or psychopathic serial killers are there on a ratio basis? Should we base our justice system on the worst of human beings? Or on the capacity for the majority to rehabilitate? It is a myth that locking up people prevents future potential crimes or murders. What is not a myth is the cold hard facts that a prision system like the American justice and penitentiary system shows worse results than the Norwegian (or Dutch) justice and penitentiary system. On a side note, my brother works in prison. And a substantial part of his job is rehabilitation. Reference (redivicism in The Netherlands): www.tbsnederland.nl/tbs/het-resultaat-recidivecijfers/ (Redivicism in The Netherlands: about 30%. How much in the States?)
Whatever works, do it. Change is often emotional and scary but that prisoner is right. Do you want a criminal living next to you, or someone who made changes.
That's one of the thoughts here in Norway, used werry often by people explaining/discussing the prison. What kind of person do you wan't living next door to you.
That prisoner is my friend, He is a good neighbor, I'm sure he always was. He was a kid when he was sentenced, He is a great friend. He always was. He knows and believes it now that he's free...I feel, I don't speak for him.
People are angry when someone commits a crime, especially a violent crime that hurts someone else. There is no remorse from most people in our country. They have the attitude of why should my tax dollars pay for them to have a decent meal or a nice room or prison cell. I think the Norwegian way of doing things could work for some of the American population, but I would agree that the conditions should be much better than what they are now.
As an American, I share your confusion. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, many Americans are still attached to tough on crime policies. Granted, some prisons are starting to change, but not enough.
I worked as a correctional officer in the USA. Our prison system really is messed up. The COs are just as crooked if not more crooked then the worst inmates here. We really do need a change.
Blazing Star - From cadets to wardens you got all different kinds of people bringing stuff in to inmates. - lots of the officers (sgts and above) would take inmates into rooms without cameras for “corrective action” and if you didn’t wanna be apart of that you would get targeted for writes ups - internal affairs is literally against 90% of its officers when inmate/officer altercations happen. - you got cert team and supervisors literally paying inmates to tell/snitch on officers / other inmates for payments (which a lot of the time they lie just to get paid) - if you get on a supervisors bad side they punish you by putting you in problem dorms and won’t help you when issues arise they say “it’s your building run it” - you get targeted out for random reasons by supervisors and are forced to stay over when other shifts officers don’t show for there shift and work even more hours after your 12 hour shift
Crime is like a wound of society. You have to treat that wound to make shore it doesn't get infected and kill you or make you sticker than you already are. But the people in the US don't get that.
I've seen the "norden" documentary on prisons, where the retired guy James Conway visited the Scandinavian prisons. It's amazing to see that this tough guy from that episode has come all this way. It's easy for prisoners to explain how they would like to be treated. But this guy, who really believed in the american system, has come all this way to express that it's not working, despite his lifelong work experience. Basically he's saying his life work has been flawed. Very hopeful.
That leaves opportunities for Prison Administrators to be reformed The USA has worked very hard to develop methods on how to indoctrinate and psychologically manipulate the population since their first day at the Indoctrination Center known as > School < Dumbing down the population began around 1970. and it has been largely successful, the people hardly know anything about that which exists outside of the border. The people have been lied to for decades and led to "Be LIE ve" that they are the best, and the Government knows best. That is about as far from the truth as Sirus is from earth.
A couple of years ago in Sweden, a prison guard forget to lock in the prisoners for the night. The prisoners promtly advanced to the kitchen (there knifes where stored) baked a chocolate cake, eat the cake in the tv-room watching tv, and then did go to sleep in there cells....and that was the most serious criminals in the the country. The outer door in the complex was locked.
@@kirgan1000 You are not particularly fluent in the English language and not good at writing either. Undertake an extensive reading program to better educate yourself, learn how to spell correctly, and use the correct words, which at this time you are unable to do. as you do not know what the words mean. You owe it to yourself to invest some of your income in self-education. Or are you not worth it? Even my former students would fail you.. // And for third party responders, I am not interested in your pathetic replies and excuses This comment is NOT for you other clowns. so get the point. This is not a debate. I am stating an observable fact. And unless you have been teaching English for a minimum of ten years, I am not interested in your replies or comment. Go take a drink of water, areas some books and have a fantastic day.
@@andrew_koala2974 What a hateful person you are. My god, just disgusted reading your comment. I hope you don't teach anyone anymore. Btw you responded to a Swedish guy (most likely) and their proficiency in English actually surpasses your country's general level of so. Somehow. Ugh, I need to take a fresh breath of air after reading this.
I think the guy saying "You pay a dollar today, you save ten tomorrow," hits the nail on the head when it comes to spending money on rehabilitation. We might feel it's wasteful to give inmates these opportunities and comforts, but if the number of repeat offenders can be reduced by such measures, that means fewer man-hours spent by police investigating these repeat offenders' crimes; less case load on courts, prosecutors and lawyers, fewer new victims
You get it. But the man in the black suit and the glasses doesn't!! He thinks about what society would think if they rehabilitat the people in jail. Ask society then. I think we all want people in society who are productive, inspiring and fun to be whit. You can't get that from people who are marginalized, traumatized, humiliated and are bitter about society!! So yes. It's better for society to rehabilitate. And it's word it to do things differently!
The main issue with implementing a system like that in the US is that people will complain that you’re providing things for prisoners that aren’t provided for the rest of the society, because unlike Scandinavian countries the US lacks the same access to cost free further education and training. It’s a brilliant idea but there’s a lot of thick skulled conservatives that would staunchly oppose such a program despite the overwhelming evidence that it works.
There are a LOT of people in Norway who rightly point out that inmates are treated better than elderly patients in retirement homes and jokingly say the elderly should commit crimes to be admitted to Halden so this isn’t completely uncontroversial
You can see it in the eyes of the inmates that they realize what a truly brutal enviroment they serve their time in and that it does not have to be that way.
why wont they realise that if you treat prisoners like animals, they will act like animals... feed them well, treat them well everything will be calmer in the prison
They don't care my man, that's what people fail to realise. It is all about money and keeping costs down, nothing else matters to most governments/private prisons.
@@AJ4LYF95 and that is a microcosm of the public's true sentiments on prison. They can act like they care but let me see a politician touting his raising taxes to improve the prison system. He'd be FINISHED. The public doesn't truly care. They want to lock em up and throw away the key and occasionally softly whine that there should be reform. Minimal effort and thought, then forget about the situation for another stretch of time.
@@tendies9248 It's not a summer camp though. No one wants to have their freedom taken. They are being punished.. One day they will be released from jail. They would have served their time according to our laws. Getting them back to society crime free is a win for everyone.
Norway really have got everything down. Richest country in the world and they look after each other Edit. Just WOW. I’d highly recommend watching the Netflix toughest jails and checking this place out it truly is groundbreaking to see. The vikings showing the rest of the world how it could be done
4 года назад
Vikings where the badest people in the world. lol. Norway
the fact that we have been looking after each other for several decades is one of the reasons we became one of the richest countries in the world. the hen and the egg. which one came first?
Im proud of my country norway ❤ here every human gets treated with the same respect they give us. I wish the us and every country would have the same healthcare and prisons like we do..
Thanks for sharing Shaun, very refreshing. This short makes some incredibly important points. The message I get loud and clear is: YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
To everyone claiming that "why does not USA implement this type of system here", the reason is that the prison system is a business in USA, as Shaun has often said. Also two party system in USA makes compromises in political and legal system very slow and nearly impossible at this scale.
@MrCowboyJesus lol Sanders, bro don't fall for that left vs right BS. They are all being owned by the Rothschild. Trump or Hillary doesn't matter; same shit different asshole. In fact Trumps are very good friends with the Clintons, they've said it multiple times.
Excellent work guys! This is pure gold in it's purest form .9999! The way this work of art came full circle at the end was a plethora of cinematic genius! The ups the downs... Just, an amazing piece! Keep up the excellent work and absolutely can not wait until the next adventure!
One aspect this video didn't mention was that Norway has a very strong social security system. Folk affected physically and/or mentally will get better care and support from the State. Therefore there will be less "look at how the criminals are pampered in their holiday camp whilst we, and their victims, have to toil and sweat!".
They still lose their freedom. That is the punishment. The US is the richest country on earth. You can afford to set up a strong social security system for yourself. This is what Bernie Sanders wants to do in the US. He wants to replicate the Scandinavian system in the US, and it can be done.
There was a presentation by Jan Strømnes the warden of Halden to an American prison where he basically said "Yeah we had the Philadelphia model of prisons (what America has), but it wasn't working so we went with a 'what works' philosophy. and "two correctional officers were killed by inmates in the 80s and that's when we decided to change the system" Basically like "yeah we figured this shit out years ago how are ya'll still on the same level rofl"
I was in and out prison (UK) like a yo-yo for years due to drug addiction . When the prison actually started helping people and I got put on methadone in prison. That was my last sentence over 10 years ago and I was on methadone for about 3 years and came off that.
I don't know why exactly but countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and Holland have always been miles ahead when it comes to things like this. They seen to be much more enlightened than the rest of the world. The way they run there education systems are so better than most and now it looks like there light years ahead, when it comes to prison as well. It's hard to get it all down in the comments but simply put, these countries are just better in nearly every way.
ill tell you one thing , living in denmark. Denmark is a very stupid foolish country, not englihtened at all. But it's also a very small, safe, and feminine society. One that values being nice / tolerant. It has evil, but on a smaller scale, it is rich enough to keep most people happy enough to not become criminals. Id say denmark is different. not wiser.
Name ONE country you listed where crime rate as a whole is going down... Especially violent brutal beatings, rape, acid attacks, burglary, murder, theft, drug related crime, etc is skyrocketing.
USA: One burned sausage with white bread 😐 Norway: Salmon with fresh potato 😃 USA: Open bar cells Norway: "In this museum you can see how bad they treated prisoners" while showing off an american cell (yes this exists) When america changes, they will see how bad it was but not until then.
As a Yank, I have been shouting from the roof-tops that the fact that our prisons are so mired in abuse, violence and indifference is clear evidence that America is not a truly civilized country. And Shaun was basically in the worst of the worst.
Not remotely. New York is very forward leaning compared to a lot of the rest of the country. Mandatory schooling for under educated, optional bachelor's programs available. California, Texas, Alabama, Florida, and Illinois if you want to see some truly heinous conditions.
willie838 I wasn’t speaking specifically of New York. I live in California so most of my knowledge is indeed based on local atrocities. And I am not just singling out the jailers. Some inmates are very much to blame for part of the dismal nature of many prisons, as I understand it. Note: Shaun Atwood was in Arizona during the Arapaio era. The prosecutor altered his sentencing documents as a form of revenge so Shaun even went to Supermax until the alteration was finally corrected.
Very interesting video, think Norway has got it right, can't see America ever implementing this kind of prison though, that bloke at the end had it spot on to focused on revenge than rehabilitation
That's truly the biggest point. America has never decided if they want to be rehabilitative or punishment for inmates. By not making a clear decision oddly enough, they end up doing neither particularly well.
Wow just had a thought. The guy in the vid says that 80% of prisoners are coming home ,so that 1 in 5 are lifed off with no chance of parole. At the moment there are more that 2.2 million people incarcerated there which means that there are more than 440k lifers ,that's crazy that's like the entire population of Sheffield doing life,think about the cost
Geez, these 2 Prisons are virtually like night and day!! Interesting to see how different ways of treating The Inmates may create different long term outcomes. The scariest prison I ever saw(on RUclips) is Black Dolphin Prison in Russia.
I worked as a social worker (actually, more specifically, as a social supporting educator) in The Netherlands up to last year. But not inside a Dutch prison but in the community. In The Netherlands the justice system is also focussed on rehabilitation. I worked with former prison inmates. From an emotional perspective I understand the concept of revenge. What would you think about, and what would you wish for, the (hypothetical) murderer of your family? Would you wish the death penalty? Maybe. Maybe even probably. But what would this achieve? Except for the feeling that it sounds like justification and adds a superficial band-aid on your psyche making it maybe slightly more bearable to live with the grievous personal loss. And most incarcerated people are not murderers. And even the murderers are not the same. You cannot compare a crime passionel or even a road rage murderer with a sadistic psychopathic serial killer. But how many murderers or psychopathic serial killers are there on a ratio basis? Should we base our justice system on the worst of human beings? Or on the capacity for the majority to rehabilitate? It is a myth that locking up people prevents future potential crimes or murders. What is not a myth is the cold hard facts that a prision system like the American justice and penitentiary system shows worse results than the Norwegian (or Dutch) justice and penitentiary system. On a side note, my brother works in prison. And a substantial part of his job is rehabilitation. Reference (redivicism in The Netherlands): www.tbsnederland.nl/tbs/het-resultaat-recidivecijfers/ (Redivicism in The Netherlands: about 30%. How much in the States?)
Shaun I’m doing a report on you in English would you have any sources I can get a lot of information that is written down. And since I’m here I’d like to ask how tall you and wild man are
Mr tython I would like to say that I don’t have access to his book on my school computers, also the computers ar in restricted mode so I can’t see half of his videos.
A great argument for rehabilitation instead of punishment and humiliation. Norway are way ahead of the rest of the world. At least some Americans are prepared to look at the Norwegian prisons and how it works . Let's just hope they are prepared to put it into practice someday. Because the American way is just wrong.
The two prisons are representations of the cultural and societal attitude of both countries. America has a culture based around greed, you have your things and have the right to defend those things with a gun, there is no thought about how your actions effect society as a whole. Nordic countries and Norway specifically have a more communal culture, you work towards not only your own personal goals but also towards society and this in turn betters your life because you live in a safer, friendlier environment with opportunities for everyone no matter your social status or background.
Yes Americans often say that they don't want to pay for others welfare. But then they end up paying for these prisons and all the crime. I think its cheaper to pay for free education and proper welfare so that every children get equal start and don't end up in prison. Much cheaper for everyone and you get a safe country as a bonus. It is very nice that the wealthy people here in Finland like this system even though they pay a lot more taxes than average workers. Average joes might hate it sometimes but they dont understand how much they are benefiting because they haven't lived in the US. I'm a plumber and I have visited 20+ countries and I am only 30yo. All jobs need to be done and every worker deserves a good life.
The problem with many other countries compared to Norway is that when you get sentenced you are marked for life, and because of that they know that they will have big problems getting a job and other normal things when they are released. But in Norway it is just a few types of jobs where they have the rights to check up your criminal records. Like of you are going to work in a kindergarten, schools or other places where you are working with kids they are going to check of you have ever been charged with sexual assault towards children. And that is something they need to do to secure the working place and the children. But in the US they will check every damn thing for every damn job, and because of that the person that gets locked up knows that he or she will never have a normal life again. And when something like that happens the person loses such a big part of themselves that they gives up and starts growing into a new version of themselves. And that is how you make a person that took the wrong choices into a angry person that doesn't give two craps about whatever that happens in the future. And when you have a jail filled with persons like that you will get a box filled with hell on earth.
In Europe it's the same, they will ask you for that shit even for the shittiest jobs. It also depends, usually if you're black or an Arab they will demand it immediately if you're white they might not ask for it, thats racism.
@@henkkaa88 Depends on the country, Europe is more than just Germany, UK, Netherlands, Scandinavia etc. In a lot of eastern European countries these issues are still prevalent
@@VariouschipHD he wasn't talking about those countries and belarus is basically the only one with actual issues. Other countries are just fine in the EU. You are not even allowed to ask about criminal history in an interview.
@@henkkaa88 Legalities and practice are two widely separate issues. Even in Norway we still have plenty of issues and controversies regarding this topic, because it does still happen
It is clear from the two which prison is better, more humane, and more rehabilitative. However, I can not help but feel there is no tangible punishment to the Norweigian prison system by looking at Halden prison. They say that the punishment is taking away the freedom of the prisoners, but that could be said about a soldier in boot camp, or any other circumstance that would force you to be in a specific place for a period of time. I am not trying to devalue the importance of rehabilitation in the penal system, but a lack of punitive measures seems to devalue the rehabilitative influence as well as being a disservice to the point of a penal system in the first place.
Dvir Dover out of curiosity are you American? Just punishment seems to be a very American way of looking at it?! I look at it differently average of 40k to keep someone locked up in uk per year We are much better as a society to reduce the number there and the number returning Different outlooks I guess
Hammer Of Witches I think the American zeitgeist is one of vengeance, coupled with how big the prison and law business is, there’d be no concentrated effort to make it work tbh! Can’t really have one of those prisons while you still have people on death row can you?
@@701delbronx8No it wouldn't. The reason prison inmates act rabid is because they have to. In Halden you're considered human and treated like one. Therefore, the inmates wont get violent.
Anytime americans talk about how they "just want to go home to their families at the end of the workday", you know they are doing fucked up shit. You don't see that mentality in road construction workers (even tho their job is statistically more dangerous) and you dont see it in european cops and prison guards.
In America the system is designed to keep you down, a very very low percentage of people make it when released. I also see if doing time is like a walk in the park then some might continue to commit crimes. They definitely need to educate and prepare people for the outside world if they expect them to stay out in society.
They don't understand and even recognise the ferry concept of rehabilitation. The system in the US is based on revanche. They want to hurt the prisoners.they want to make thete lives as brutal as possible!
Americans need to drop the fear of taxes. You want more humane prisons and a better recidivism rate? Less kids in poverty, as to create a smalle prison population in the first place? Better educational achievement? More social mobility? Better infrastructure? Healthcare? It all takes taxes. But the thing is, it works.
In the UK I would vote for the centre right. (Although in the US my views would be very socially left leaning) however I will concede that the only way for this prison system to work in the US, or the UK for that matter, would be if there was a high tax, high median wage, low unemployment economy (socialist)which they have in Norway. This is because if this style prison was unveiled on the UK where the wealth gap is wider there would almost certainly be poor, perhaps homeless people who would rather be fed and sheltered (albeit without freedom) than live in harsher conditions on the outside. This is why this would be harder to roll out in the US or UK as in the short term it could incentivise some petty crime. In an ideal world however I strongly agree with rehabilitation over revenge. The inmate puts it perfectly when he asked who you would rather have moving in next door. Cheers!
if the rich elite did nt evade tax we d be able to ..we re ment to be more wealthy than norway its just the rich elite hoarding it that makes puts us decades even centuries behind places like norway...fuck its getting more and more like victorian times here in the uk ...
I’m from Norway and it’s the same for me. We’ve got leftist and right wing parties, but an American once observed that Norway’s right wing parties are so moderate right that they would be referred to as “goddamn commies” in 🇺🇸
Yes. I get sick when I see all the perverse comments on a lot of American prison videos. It's so scary when people mistake a sense of justice with their own personal lust for revenge.
American prisons look like prisons in the Nordics from 100 years ago. So fucking degrading, dangerous, and inhumane. No dignity, no preventive work, no social security... No wonder you have the world's LARGEST prison population per capita, high recidivism, and a really high crime rate.
Rehabilitation and a relatively normal sense of reality seems to be the way to imprison criminals. I would love to hear the views of a victim's relative. Any clips??
Our mindset is that even if there is privacy, even if they can work, roam free inside the walls during the day, they are still in prison. Most complaints on the Norwegian justice system is that the time served is to short, not the way they serve their time. Max sentence in Norway is 21 years, with a minimum serving of 10. There is custodial sentencing, which means after you serve your time, you’ll have to go to a new trial where you stand the risk of being sentenced again for the same crime (which could potentially be a life sentence of sorts, but not guaranteed), but as far as I’m aware, there is only one prisoner in Norway that will never be free again, and that’s Anders Behring Breivik (The terrorist who shot and killed 77 kids and teens) Obviously a victim or victims family of a violent crime, sexual crime, or any other life changing and devastating crime will always view the punishment of the criminal as to lenient, but seeing that we don’t have a definitive life sentence in Norway, I’d much rather have a murderer that has been rehabilitated and made into a productive member of society living next to me, than a convicted murderer that has been spending 25 years in a cage building up anger against society and authority living next to me.
some Norwegian prisons have less equipment and have jobs that are more mundane (making pallets and similar stuff), but they usually have a partnership with a nearby college or uni that could provide courses or education for inmates who want to study, and are behaving of course. Staying in a place where you have certain accomodations that will make the days, months and years go by a little easier, encourages more types of inmates than you'd think to make an effort to stay within the boundaries they are given. Also, if an inmate breaks rules, is verbally abusive, or attacks someone; they will loose more privileges. In cases where they stay at a low security prison, they might get transferred to a maximum security prison for some time, if not for the rest of their sentence. However, they can regain privileges, and they can apply for a return to a low security prison again after some time, usually coupled with counseling and approval from their co. and that is something I believe makes for some to try to change, when they see that if they mess up, it aint over for the rest of their time, but it takes effort to have all the benefits that are available
Prisons should be like a military training camp, they should be highly structured and strict yet fair and focus on individuals gaining skills and pride in themselves so they don't recommit crime once released.
Hey being confined in any prison sucks. In US prisons, it's dog eat dog, weak get extorted etc. How does that prepare anyone to succeed in civilian life? Bury murderers and sex offenders under the prison. Short of that just being confined is punishment enough.
This is just one prison. Norway is known for prolonged periods, meaning years of total isolation. This has been deemed torture by international courts and many don't make it out because of being driven to suicide due to the mental problems that come with isolation. Guards have been known to encourage inmates to suicide as well. For more info regarding the Norwegian prison system, go to Varg's channel at Thulean Perspective
I am always equally shocked how callous Americans seem to be about anyone in prison. It seem they feel that if someone has landed themselves in prison they must tolerate anything that happens there. Rotten food? Tough shit, should have thought about that before you wrote that check you knew you couldn’t cover! Prison rape? Maybe you shouldn’t have try to shoplift a Christmas meal for your kids? You’re made to assemble stuff for big corporations as a slave while you owe the prison big money for overpriced calls so you can speak with you mama and your kids once a month? Well you should have though of that before you got yourself hooked on painkillers and couldn’t afford drug treatment!. The US attitude is: you get convicted and suddenly your life and dignity is worthless, no matter what you did to get there, whether it’s murder or Mail fraud, it’s all the same.
Well one thing is sure, if the prisons were less violent people would use LESS guns when they do crimes. Because they would not be as insanely afraid to end up in prison like they are now in the USA.
In Norway this system works because the crime rate in general is much lower than many countries, and I think that, in some extent, the US can learn from this, but to fully implement it in the US isn't a good idea since it wouldn't work at all
Yes, prison reform is only one issue that can't be tackled alone. In the USA the public education system is broken. Mental health provision for low income groups is non existent. The gap between rich & poor is massive.
Very American approach for the reward of your job being able to go home to your family at the end of the day. In the free world that is the starting point.
Shame on US for its murderous brutal system and perverse corrupt 'justice' system, UK not much better and heading the same way. Brilliant to see what the Norwegians are doing.
Halden prison was home of Varg Virkenes of the Black Metal Band Mayhem; he murdered fellow band member Euronymous and was implicated in Church burnings in the 1990s . He also escaped once at had ties to the Neo-Nazi organizations and was recaptured in cabin with bunch of weapons . He is free now because the maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years! Varg is now a blogger, survivalist and Odinist . He had You-Tube Channel called Thulean Perspectives . He now lives in France with his wife and kids in France. The recent movie “The Lords of Chaos” is about the rise of Mayhem and the Black Metal movement and church burnings and murdèrs in the early 90s. The movie sucks and not very accurate. . Say what you want about Varg he is highly intelligent and very well read.! I don’t agree with all of Varg says he has very interesting points! He also is doting father.
You do realize that the movie isnt suppose to be real but only for entertainment purposes.. pretty sure they didnt want to do a full bio of varg what he done. Varg is just a close minded moron thats gonna die alone... im suprise that his youtube channel is still up and running i would've thought youtube would ban him by now.
Batty Ghøst They even took away the warning label they put before his videos. You-Tube and Twitter are such fucking hypocrites; people were calling for the deaths of those Covington Kids and Twitter did nothing. Varg is intelligent; but I don’t agree with his views; but he should have the right to express them. They let LeftWing Lintards rant and rave and ANTIFA say what ever they want.
Fthcf Vgtjbv source? Also there is some seed of truth to that and Varg often speaks of traditional Finnish people and their culture and religion with utmost respect.
Norway has had to close prisons due to lack of repeat offenders. Maybe they could help the US actually rehabilitate its prisoners by taking importing them to Norway???
Fun facts about the Norwegian reoffending rate statistics: Violence: 60% Theft/Robbery: 75% Drugs: 50% Let that sink in for a second. Source: www.nrk.no/norge/norge-er-ikke-bedre-pa-tilbakefall-1.8055256
People complaining that "hurg durg they're prisoners they should b punisHED" is clearly missing the big picture. Norway has the worlds lowest re-offending rate at only 30%, and it's pretty obvious that this method is working. As many other comments have pointed out before me, is that if you treat a human like an animal, they will become animals. If you treat them with respect and give them a chance to redeem themselves, they will more often than not be released as new and reinvented people.
The one guy doesn't get it. It's not society that's locked up. It's these man. They are the ones who need to be rehabilitated so they can be better persons.
It is complicated. Victims of crimes and their families are the ones that will never recover. Fear of going to prison is a major deterrent to many troubled individuals. If Norway's system makes criminals feel comfortable, they would not think twice, before committing any kind of crime against anybody. Please show us, how victims of crimes are always treated and compensated for their pain and loses. Hope it is at least 100 times better than the punishment.
Prison works as a deterrent in Norway as well. Lower crime than in the US, lower recidivism. You would think if harsher punishment was a deterrent that the US would not have anyone going back.
"Victims of crimes and their families are the ones that will never recover." True. There's no changing the past. Only thing we can do is to try prevent it from happening again to someone else. Every criminal that don't go back to crime after serving their sentence means _at least_ one victim that never came to be, that didn't have to recover etc. Before you commit your first crime, you're not a criminal, you're indistinguishable from everyone else. Once you've committed one, though, we know that unless something changes, you're very likely to keep committing crimes and that helping the necessary changes happen is the better option. "Fear of going to prison is a major deterrent to many troubled individuals." That's not what I've seen. On the contrary, going to prison is primarily a concern for those who have their shit together, not the ones living rough, fighting to survive, get food (or drugs) etc. Even so, what most people fear is getting caught, which may sound like nit picking, but something that psychologically allows us to turn it into a gamble, calculated risk thing, rather than a consequence of our actions. If your life is shite, you're taking worse risks all the time in many cases. "If Norway's system makes criminals feel comfortable, they would not think twice, before committing any kind of crime against anybody." While seemingly logical/sensible, that claim is thoroughly debunked by the actual numbers, though. Fewer crimes committed, lower recidivism rates. Even a gilded cage is a cage. "Please show us, how victims of crimes are always treated and compensated for their pain and loses. Hope it is at least 100 times better than the punishment." You know, that's not even possible. In the real world, consequences can't be truly compensated for - what's happened has happened. The best we can realistically hope for is bad things not happening in the first place. Crime prevention is a huge area, covering everything from racism, classism, poverty, education, job opportunities etc etc, and experiments like the Halden prison is giving us valuable information, just like youth outreach programmes in poor and underprivileged neighbourhoods. Revenge has never been shown to be a good way to improve society, though - on the contrary - and human kind has tried it for thousands upon thousands of years. If it did work, we'd known a long time ago. It only make people more creative and/or competitive about who's the bigger threat. It's a dead end. To the individual victims it may very well seem like the perpetrator is getting off way too easy if they get to live in better conditions than the victim itself (ignoring the lack of freedom - something that more people might start to understand what means to your psyche etc now with widespread lockdowns etc) - that's easy to understand. The government isn't tasked with making individuals feel avenged etc though, it's tasked to keep crime down and make sure there's consequences for breaking the law. In a wider perspective, revenge is highly counter productive, and a poor choice by the government. And it's a good thing it's up to the government rather than the victims as the victims are emotionally invested, obviously, thus it'd be a huge ask of them to go for the more efficient way of dealing with criminals - treating them like the humans they still are.
One focuses on rehabilitation (that's why it's so weird) the other on money, seems like that's what happens if prison is a business not a 'public service' ran by a more humane government.
New York prisons aren't a business. They're 100 percent funded by tax dollars. It's not a privatized for profit prison. It's 100 percent loss of tax money and comes out of the state's annual budget. As opposed to using those funds more positively.
That female correction officers says it all. It's about her going home alive. She is in a survival mode on her work. Nothing more. She might as well be a robot. The stress she must have day in day out!! Mest up.
Privatization of prisons combined with a growing police state means we will need to fight to take our freedom back. The longer this curroption goes unchecked the harder it will be to fix. The us penal system is the canary.
One thing I don't understand about the Norwegian prison system. What do they do with prison inmates who will never reintegrate into society again? (For example: "Fjotolf Hansen" former known as "Anders Breivik", the guy who killed 60+ teenagers in a massacre) That's a very philosophical question, but is taking away his freedom enough? Or should he also get taken away the quality of a comfortable prison cell etc. ?
@UC2divDW3EP-fsoMYKxuRt0A I only heard about the case he lost about "human rights violation". In my opinion this man lost the priviledge to be treated as a human. Did he act humane when he pulled the trigger to kill as many teenagers as he can? Is it humane that he never showed any remorse about his actions. I'm not Norwegian (Austrian) but I'm honestly as disgusted as you guys about how he got his comfortable cell with entertainment system. How he can legally change his name just for fun. How he gets out to court to waste the taxpayers money even more. I think it needs a special law for inmates like him.
@@Deisinator Nobody cares. He isn't enjoying his time in prison. Just because someone is an animal doesn't mean other ppl have to start behaving like him. It would even affect the psychological mindset of the correction officers if they would have to implement inhumane conditions on him. Everyone should let him be and continue to focus on building a safe country and thats what they are doing.
It is what it is. Do you want a prison that benefits the system, or do you want a system that benefits the revengeful feelings of those who've lost someone or something? In a _very_ Christian country, that seriously should put your _true_ religiosity to the test. Hello from Norway.
Is that the island prison in norway??? Saw a doc about it years ago. I also live in the general vicinity of Attica. I've met ex inamtes, even a few that were there for the riot....
The island is called Bastøy. It's the last place for inmates to go before they get released. You have been a good boy if you get the privilege to stay there. 😊 Make a smooth transition back to society
I know the Norwegian system is infinitely better but I don't think the Americans will ever adopt something similar. Crime and punishment is politicised to such an extent anyone viewed as being soft of crime will lose votes. Also I'm pretty sure the US jails more of its per capita population the Norway does, so I would envisage a massive increase in the cost. I do have a genuine question about the Norwegian system. Is Anders Brevik held in somewhere liker Halder or is he in more of a US style situation? Not saying he necessarily should be allowed to mix with other inmates but I would be interested to know.
Vengeance is the priority for many Americans when it comes to the administration of justice. The commercalisation of law and order exacerbates this. Having the public elect judges/ sheriffs/ attorneys is also unhealthy.
also if you know you are not going to live in hell for years on end you are less likely to resist arrest to the point of a suicidal shooting, putting both the charged and the police in a ether position
The chuckling about the violence, halden had one incident, and Attica last had one on "Tuesday." There is just a different makeup of the populations. The canned goods ban? Because it's the most crude weapon that the gang that controls the phones will open up your face for using the phone without being able to pay them. People can cry at systemic differences but understand that the populations are VERY different between the two facilities, and at some point the blame for heinous violence between inmates can be placed at their own feet, as opposed to the concept of perpetual victimhood.
FREE THOSE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE .... survival is for the most fit ,let's have at one another and the better of us will remain standing.... no building can keep the mind
"what was the last time we had an assault on an inmate here?: me: hmm is this him going to pretend that the revenge system is better? i think he sounds genuine so probably no...? "Tuesday" me: damn... BUUUUUUUUURN
This is outstanding content. I only wish more people here in North America were aware of the contrast. What saddens me so much is the savage nature of not only certain criminals, but the general public who crave bloodlust for the accused. I guarantee you that the initial reaction of a fairly significant number North American s after watching this video would be one of disdain. That is how hateful a lot of people are. But I sincerely believe the majority would see Norway s system as the best form of quote punishment combined with rehabilitation. I honestly do not understand why so many people think America is the land of the free. That is nonsense. Unless you have a few million dollars in pocket change, you are fucked.
The maximum sentence for capital murder is 20 years in Norway. All of this only works in cultures like Norway's. U.S. incoming inmates are more akin to gorillas than to humans.
i been 6 years in prison here in Norway. Some places are like this but most are not as good. But compared to the US we get treated like humans, not animals. I have not done drugs or any crime since i left prison 2 years ago
Good for you.
I worked as a social worker (actually, more specifically, as a social supporting educator) in The Netherlands up to last year. But not inside a Dutch prison but in the community. In The Netherlands the justice system is also focussed on rehabilitation. I worked with former prison inmates.
From an emotional perspective I understand the concept of revenge. What would you think about, and what would you wish for, the (hypothetically) murderer of your family? Would you wish the death penalty? Maybe. Maybe even probably.
But what would this achieve? Except for the feeling that it sounds like justification and adds a superficial band-aid on your psyche making it maybe slightly more bearable to live with the grievous personal loss.
And most incarcerated people are not murderers. And even the murderers are not the same. You cannot compare a crime passionel or even a road rage murderer with a sadistic psychopathic serial killer.
But how many murderers or psychopathic serial killers are there on a ratio basis?
Should we base our justice system on the worst of human beings? Or on the capacity for the majority to rehabilitate?
It is a myth that locking up people prevents future potential crimes or murders. What is not a myth is the cold hard facts that a prision system like the American justice and penitentiary system shows worse results than the Norwegian (or Dutch) justice and penitentiary system.
On a side note, my brother works in prison. And a substantial part of his job is rehabilitation.
Reference (redivicism in The Netherlands):
www.tbsnederland.nl/tbs/het-resultaat-recidivecijfers/
(Redivicism in The Netherlands: about 30%. How much in the States?)
Keep up the good spirit!
Stay strong, take care!
@@wimahlers I totally agree with you. :)
@@sunar91 takk
Whatever works, do it. Change is often emotional and scary but that prisoner is right. Do you want a criminal living next to you, or someone who made changes.
That's one of the thoughts here in Norway, used werry often by people explaining/discussing the prison. What kind of person do you wan't living next door to you.
That prisoner is my friend, He is a good neighbor, I'm sure he always was. He was a kid when he was sentenced, He is a great friend. He always was. He knows and believes it now that he's free...I feel, I don't speak for him.
And I worked there, He worked with me, The Guy that said that. :)
I am from Norway and the mentality around prison of USA have always confused me.
"prison-industrial complex"
people are expendable, money is forever.
People are angry when someone commits a crime, especially a violent crime that hurts someone else. There is no remorse from most people in our country. They have the attitude of why should my tax dollars pay for them to have a decent meal or a nice room or prison cell. I think the Norwegian way of doing things could work for some of the American population, but I would agree that the conditions should be much better than what they are now.
It’s dog eat dog. Gangs run the prison black, white, northern Mexican and southern Mexican.
As an American, I share your confusion. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, many Americans are still attached to tough on crime policies. Granted, some prisons are starting to change, but not enough.
I worked as a correctional officer in the USA. Our prison system really is messed up. The COs are just as crooked if not more crooked then the worst inmates here. We really do need a change.
Can you give an example?
Blazing Star of what needs to change or the COs being crooked
@@bipolarferby5804 The COs
Blazing Star
- From cadets to wardens you got all different kinds of people bringing stuff in to inmates.
- lots of the officers (sgts and above) would take inmates into rooms without cameras for “corrective action” and if you didn’t wanna be apart of that you would get targeted for writes ups
- internal affairs is literally against 90% of its officers when inmate/officer altercations happen.
- you got cert team and supervisors literally paying inmates to tell/snitch on officers / other inmates for payments (which a lot of the time they lie just to get paid)
- if you get on a supervisors bad side they punish you by putting you in problem dorms and won’t help you when issues arise they say “it’s your building run it”
- you get targeted out for random reasons by supervisors and are forced to stay over when other shifts officers don’t show for there shift and work even more hours after your 12 hour shift
you gay
"If you treat a person badly, what can you expect from that person after being released from prison?"
Such a simple idea, yet so few think about it.
USA want them to get back into prison, they are private owned and they get money when the prisoner comes back. Its all about money and greed and evil.
Crime is like a wound of society. You have to treat that wound to make shore it doesn't get infected and kill you or make you sticker than you already are.
But the people in the US don't get that.
just think how many criminals are in the police forces in the US and GOP politicians running around free who belongs in to prisons, aka #45!
Say what you want but the Norwegian prison system works better
I doubt that 80% of inmates in Norway are back inside the clink within 5 years like in the u.s.a
@@sanyonazyin6063 around 20% get back in jail within 5 years . Rest goes back to socity and becomes taxpayers.
Sadly the envoy from Halden carries a much more subtle yet stronger language. The translation from Norwegian to English is really poor.
I've seen the "norden" documentary on prisons, where the retired guy James Conway visited the Scandinavian prisons. It's amazing to see that this tough guy from that episode has come all this way. It's easy for prisoners to explain how they would like to be treated. But this guy, who really believed in the american system, has come all this way to express that it's not working, despite his lifelong work experience. Basically he's saying his life work has been flawed. Very hopeful.
Of all the people in the US prison system including the prisoners, I was sure James would the last to conform... Boy was I wrong, so good to see!
That leaves opportunities for Prison Administrators to be reformed
The USA has worked very hard to develop methods on how to indoctrinate
and psychologically manipulate the population since their first day at the
Indoctrination Center known as > School <
Dumbing down the population began around 1970. and it has been largely
successful, the people hardly know anything about that which exists outside
of the border.
The people have been lied to for decades and led to "Be LIE ve" that they are
the best, and the Government knows best. That is about as far from the
truth as Sirus is from earth.
A couple of years ago in Sweden, a prison guard forget to lock in the prisoners for the night. The prisoners promtly advanced to the kitchen (there knifes where stored) baked a chocolate cake, eat the cake in the tv-room watching tv, and then did go to sleep in there cells....and that was the most serious criminals in the the country. The outer door in the complex was locked.
@@kirgan1000
You are not particularly fluent in the English language and not good at writing either.
Undertake an extensive reading program to better educate yourself, learn how to
spell correctly, and use the correct words, which at this time you are unable to do.
as you do not know what the words mean.
You owe it to yourself to invest some of your income in self-education.
Or are you not worth it?
Even my former students would fail you..
// And for third party responders, I am not interested in your pathetic replies and excuses
This comment is NOT for you other clowns. so get the point.
This is not a debate. I am stating an observable fact.
And unless you have been teaching English for a minimum of ten years, I am not
interested in your replies or comment.
Go take a drink of water, areas some books and have a fantastic day.
@@andrew_koala2974 What a hateful person you are. My god, just disgusted reading your comment. I hope you don't teach anyone anymore. Btw you responded to a Swedish guy (most likely) and their proficiency in English actually surpasses your country's general level of so. Somehow. Ugh, I need to take a fresh breath of air after reading this.
I think the guy saying "You pay a dollar today, you save ten tomorrow," hits the nail on the head when it comes to spending money on rehabilitation. We might feel it's wasteful to give inmates these opportunities and comforts, but if the number of repeat offenders can be reduced by such measures, that means fewer man-hours spent by police investigating these repeat offenders' crimes; less case load on courts, prosecutors and lawyers, fewer new victims
You get it. But the man in the black suit and the glasses doesn't!! He thinks about what society would think if they rehabilitat the people in jail. Ask society then. I think we all want people in society who are productive, inspiring and fun to be whit. You can't get that from people who are marginalized, traumatized, humiliated and are bitter about society!!
So yes. It's better for society to rehabilitate. And it's word it to do things differently!
The main issue with implementing a system like that in the US is that people will complain that you’re providing things for prisoners that aren’t provided for the rest of the society, because unlike Scandinavian countries the US lacks the same access to cost free further education and training. It’s a brilliant idea but there’s a lot of thick skulled conservatives that would staunchly oppose such a program despite the overwhelming evidence that it works.
the fact that your soo right makes me sad.
There are a LOT of people in Norway who rightly point out that inmates are treated better than elderly patients in retirement homes and jokingly say the elderly should commit crimes to be admitted to Halden so this isn’t completely uncontroversial
The guy in Attica who asked if Halden takes international transfers cracked me up 😂 Protect his intellect at all cost! Humor like that is impressive 😄
You can see it in the eyes of the inmates that they realize what a truly brutal enviroment they serve their time in and that it does not have to be that way.
why wont they realise that if you treat prisoners like animals, they will act like animals... feed them well, treat them well everything will be calmer in the prison
They don't care my man, that's what people fail to realise. It is all about money and keeping costs down, nothing else matters to most governments/private prisons.
Because they are rapists and murderers, letting them enjoy themselves in jail would be rewarding what they have done
@@AJ4LYF95 and that is a microcosm of the public's true sentiments on prison.
They can act like they care but let me see a politician touting his raising taxes to improve the prison system.
He'd be FINISHED.
The public doesn't truly care. They want to lock em up and throw away the key and occasionally softly whine that there should be reform. Minimal effort and thought, then forget about the situation for another stretch of time.
willie838 bang on my mate. Well put
@@tendies9248 It's not a summer camp though. No one wants to have their freedom taken. They are being punished..
One day they will be released from jail. They would have served their time according to our laws. Getting them back to society crime free is a win for everyone.
Norway really have got everything down. Richest country in the world and they look after each other
Edit. Just WOW.
I’d highly recommend watching the Netflix toughest jails and checking this place out it truly is groundbreaking to see. The vikings showing the rest of the world how it could be done
Vikings where the badest people in the world. lol. Norway
the fact that we have been looking after each other for several decades is one of the reasons we became one of the richest countries in the world. the hen and the egg. which one came first?
@. I am from Norway
Yes, the Vikings was terribel peopel. But they was verry good sailors and strong.
Im proud of my country norway ❤ here every human gets treated with the same respect they give us. I wish the us and every country would have the same healthcare and prisons like we do..
you guys are really doing great:)
So true .I'm a Norwegian also
@@ingerloviseeide6806 🇧🇻✌
Thanks for sharing Shaun, very refreshing. This short makes some incredibly important points. The message I get loud and clear is: YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
To everyone claiming that "why does not USA implement this type of system here", the reason is that the prison system is a business in USA, as Shaun has often said. Also two party system in USA makes compromises in political and legal system very slow and nearly impossible at this scale.
@MrCowboyJesus lol Sanders, bro don't fall for that left vs right BS. They are all being owned by the Rothschild. Trump or Hillary doesn't matter; same shit different asshole. In fact Trumps are very good friends with the Clintons, they've said it multiple times.
retarded system.,. let the president order it
Would’ve liked to have heard your view on it all at the end shaun!
Excellent work guys! This is pure gold in it's purest form .9999! The way this work of art came full circle at the end was a plethora of cinematic genius! The ups the downs... Just, an amazing piece! Keep up the excellent work and absolutely can not wait until the next adventure!
One aspect this video didn't mention was that Norway has a very strong social security system. Folk affected physically and/or mentally will get better care and support from the State. Therefore there will be less "look at how the criminals are pampered in their holiday camp whilst we, and their victims, have to toil and sweat!".
They still lose their freedom. That is the punishment. The US is the richest country on earth. You can afford to set up a strong social security system for yourself. This is what Bernie Sanders wants to do in the US. He wants to replicate the Scandinavian system in the US, and it can be done.
There was a presentation by Jan Strømnes the warden of Halden to an American prison where he basically said "Yeah we had the Philadelphia model of prisons (what America has), but it wasn't working so we went with a 'what works' philosophy.
and
"two correctional officers were killed by inmates in the 80s and that's when we decided to change the system"
Basically like "yeah we figured this shit out years ago how are ya'll still on the same level rofl"
I did a presentation on Norwegian prisons in class last year.
How did your classmates react?
How was it?
how did they react ?
I was in and out prison (UK) like a yo-yo for years due to drug addiction . When the prison actually started helping people and I got put on methadone in prison. That was my last sentence over 10 years ago and I was on methadone for about 3 years and came off that.
Stay strong.
Im so proud of the Norwegian society. We took good care of our Viking values
Norway. The land to follow. 😍❤️👍
Norway OK
USA No Way
I don't know why exactly but countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and Holland have always been miles ahead when it comes to things like this. They seen to be much more enlightened than the rest of the world. The way they run there education systems are so better than most and now it looks like there light years ahead, when it comes to prison as well. It's hard to get it all down in the comments but simply put, these countries are just better in nearly every way.
No. Sweden is a shithole at the moment. Norway and Iceland are really the only good countries.
ill tell you one thing , living in denmark. Denmark is a very stupid foolish country, not englihtened at all. But it's also a very small, safe, and feminine society. One that values being nice / tolerant. It has evil, but on a smaller scale, it is rich enough to keep most people happy enough to not become criminals. Id say denmark is different. not wiser.
Holland isnt a country and the netherlands isn't that progressive at all
Name ONE country you listed where crime rate as a whole is going down... Especially violent brutal beatings, rape, acid attacks, burglary, murder, theft, drug related crime, etc is skyrocketing.
@@Slendermən Wtf no? Sweden has issues(stupid covid policy being one), but better countries are few and far between(none in the Anglosphere).
USA: One burned sausage with white bread 😐
Norway: Salmon with fresh potato 😃
USA: Open bar cells
Norway: "In this museum you can see how bad they treated prisoners" while showing off an american cell (yes this exists)
When america changes, they will see how bad it was but not until then.
What a contrast. What an overwhelming argument. What an inditement of the US system.
In the lottery of life it pays to be a Norseman rather than a Yank.
look at the amount of homeless in the us its society thats broken for alot people life has turn into constant nightmare does halden get brake ins
You got that right!
As a Yank, I have been shouting from the roof-tops that the fact that our prisons are so mired in abuse, violence and indifference is clear evidence that America is not a truly civilized country. And Shaun was basically in the worst of the worst.
Not remotely. New York is very forward leaning compared to a lot of the rest of the country.
Mandatory schooling for under educated, optional bachelor's programs available.
California, Texas, Alabama, Florida, and Illinois if you want to see some truly heinous conditions.
willie838 I wasn’t speaking specifically of New York. I live in California so most of my knowledge is indeed based on local atrocities. And I am not just singling out the jailers. Some inmates are very much to blame for part of the dismal nature of many prisons, as I understand it. Note: Shaun Atwood was in Arizona during the Arapaio era. The prosecutor altered his sentencing documents as a form of revenge so Shaun even went to Supermax until the alteration was finally corrected.
Very interesting video, think Norway has got it right, can't see America ever implementing this kind of prison though, that bloke at the end had it spot on to focused on revenge than rehabilitation
That's truly the biggest point. America has never decided if they want to be rehabilitative or punishment for inmates.
By not making a clear decision oddly enough, they end up doing neither particularly well.
TheOriginal GGHarasser do you mean us, Norway, struggle with public healthcare?
Wow just had a thought. The guy in the vid says that 80% of prisoners are coming home ,so that 1 in 5 are lifed off with no chance of parole. At the moment there are more that 2.2 million people incarcerated there which means that there are more than 440k lifers ,that's crazy that's like the entire population of Sheffield doing life,think about the cost
bigger country ! what do you expect !
Geez, these 2 Prisons are virtually like night and day!! Interesting to see how different ways of treating The Inmates may create different long term outcomes. The scariest prison I ever saw(on RUclips) is Black Dolphin Prison in Russia.
I worked as a social worker (actually, more specifically, as a social supporting educator) in The Netherlands up to last year. But not inside a Dutch prison but in the community. In The Netherlands the justice system is also focussed on rehabilitation. I worked with former prison inmates.
From an emotional perspective I understand the concept of revenge. What would you think about, and what would you wish for, the (hypothetical) murderer of your family? Would you wish the death penalty? Maybe. Maybe even probably.
But what would this achieve? Except for the feeling that it sounds like justification and adds a superficial band-aid on your psyche making it maybe slightly more bearable to live with the grievous personal loss.
And most incarcerated people are not murderers. And even the murderers are not the same. You cannot compare a crime passionel or even a road rage murderer with a sadistic psychopathic serial killer.
But how many murderers or psychopathic serial killers are there on a ratio basis?
Should we base our justice system on the worst of human beings? Or on the capacity for the majority to rehabilitate?
It is a myth that locking up people prevents future potential crimes or murders. What is not a myth is the cold hard facts that a prision system like the American justice and penitentiary system shows worse results than the Norwegian (or Dutch) justice and penitentiary system.
On a side note, my brother works in prison. And a substantial part of his job is rehabilitation.
Reference (redivicism in The Netherlands):
www.tbsnederland.nl/tbs/het-resultaat-recidivecijfers/
(Redivicism in The Netherlands: about 30%. How much in the States?)
Shaun I’m doing a report on you in English would you have any sources I can get a lot of information that is written down.
And since I’m here I’d like to ask how tall you and wild man are
Ryan He wrote a book about his life dude
Mr tython I would like to say that I don’t have access to his book on my school computers, also the computers ar in restricted mode so I can’t see half of his videos.
@@ryanwiebrecht6529 you can order his books on amazon, well well worth it.
What a contrast
Cut to Joe Arpaio having an aneurysm seeing the Norwegian prison.
A great argument for rehabilitation instead of punishment and humiliation. Norway are way ahead of the rest of the world. At least some Americans are prepared to look at the Norwegian prisons and how it works . Let's just hope they are prepared to put it into practice someday. Because the American way is just wrong.
there way ahead in every area
The two prisons are representations of the cultural and societal attitude of both countries. America has a culture based around greed, you have your things and have the right to defend those things with a gun, there is no thought about how your actions effect society as a whole. Nordic countries and Norway specifically have a more communal culture, you work towards not only your own personal goals but also towards society and this in turn betters your life because you live in a safer, friendlier environment with opportunities for everyone no matter your social status or background.
Yes Americans often say that they don't want to pay for others welfare. But then they end up paying for these prisons and all the crime. I think its cheaper to pay for free education and proper welfare so that every children get equal start and don't end up in prison. Much cheaper for everyone and you get a safe country as a bonus. It is very nice that the wealthy people here in Finland like this system even though they pay a lot more taxes than average workers. Average joes might hate it sometimes but they dont understand how much they are benefiting because they haven't lived in the US. I'm a plumber and I have visited 20+ countries and I am only 30yo. All jobs need to be done and every worker deserves a good life.
The problem with many other countries compared to Norway is that when you get sentenced you are marked for life, and because of that they know that they will have big problems getting a job and other normal things when they are released. But in Norway it is just a few types of jobs where they have the rights to check up your criminal records. Like of you are going to work in a kindergarten, schools or other places where you are working with kids they are going to check of you have ever been charged with sexual assault towards children. And that is something they need to do to secure the working place and the children.
But in the US they will check every damn thing for every damn job, and because of that the person that gets locked up knows that he or she will never have a normal life again. And when something like that happens the person loses such a big part of themselves that they gives up and starts growing into a new version of themselves. And that is how you make a person that took the wrong choices into a angry person that doesn't give two craps about whatever that happens in the future. And when you have a jail filled with persons like that you will get a box filled with hell on earth.
In Europe it's the same, they will ask you for that shit even for the shittiest jobs. It also depends, usually if you're black or an Arab they will demand it immediately if you're white they might not ask for it, thats racism.
@@padmad3k63 no we dont. Dont talk shit.
@@henkkaa88 Depends on the country, Europe is more than just Germany, UK, Netherlands, Scandinavia etc. In a lot of eastern European countries these issues are still prevalent
@@VariouschipHD he wasn't talking about those countries and belarus is basically the only one with actual issues. Other countries are just fine in the EU. You are not even allowed to ask about criminal history in an interview.
@@henkkaa88 Legalities and practice are two widely separate issues. Even in Norway we still have plenty of issues and controversies regarding this topic, because it does still happen
It is clear from the two which prison is better, more humane, and more rehabilitative. However, I can not help but feel there is no tangible punishment to the Norweigian prison system by looking at Halden prison. They say that the punishment is taking away the freedom of the prisoners, but that could be said about a soldier in boot camp, or any other circumstance that would force you to be in a specific place for a period of time. I am not trying to devalue the importance of rehabilitation in the penal system, but a lack of punitive measures seems to devalue the rehabilitative influence as well as being a disservice to the point of a penal system in the first place.
100% agree
Dvir Dover out of curiosity are you American? Just punishment seems to be a very American way of looking at it?!
I look at it differently average of 40k to keep someone locked up in uk per year
We are much better as a society to reduce the number there and the number returning
Different outlooks I guess
Damn the Norwegian guy said it for me at the end
Hammer Of Witches I think the American zeitgeist is one of vengeance, coupled with how big the prison and law business is, there’d be no concentrated effort to make it work tbh!
Can’t really have one of those prisons while you still have people on death row can you?
@@701delbronx8No it wouldn't. The reason prison inmates act rabid is because they have to. In Halden you're considered human and treated like one. Therefore, the inmates wont get violent.
7:33 you can clearly see who is taking the inmate serious and who just there coz they have to be.
Wow what a difference! For real like day and night hope Bernie Sanders gets elected so we can maybe see some much needed reforms in USA
Unfortunately never gonna happen because in USA its bissness to make money
Morning shaun.. wow Norway looks like they have it right to help stop prisoners re ofending..
“Do you take International Transfers?” Pure gold 😂
Anytime americans talk about how they "just want to go home to their families at the end of the workday", you know they are doing fucked up shit. You don't see that mentality in road construction workers (even tho their job is statistically more dangerous) and you dont see it in european cops and prison guards.
In America the system is designed to keep you down, a very very low percentage of people make it when released. I also see if doing time is like a walk in the park then some might continue to commit crimes. They definitely need to educate and prepare people for the outside world if they expect them to stay out in society.
They don't understand and even recognise the ferry concept of rehabilitation. The system in the US is based on revanche. They want to hurt the prisoners.they want to make thete lives as brutal as possible!
If you beat your dog,dont turn your back to him...
Americans need to drop the fear of taxes. You want more humane prisons and a better recidivism rate? Less kids in poverty, as to create a smalle prison population in the first place? Better educational achievement? More social mobility? Better infrastructure? Healthcare? It all takes taxes. But the thing is, it works.
In the UK I would vote for the centre right. (Although in the US my views would be very socially left leaning) however I will concede that the only way for this prison system to work in the US, or the UK for that matter, would be if there was a high tax, high median wage, low unemployment economy (socialist)which they have in Norway.
This is because if this style prison was unveiled on the UK where the wealth gap is wider there would almost certainly be poor, perhaps homeless people who would rather be fed and sheltered (albeit without freedom) than live in harsher conditions on the outside.
This is why this would be harder to roll out in the US or UK as in the short term it could incentivise some petty crime. In an ideal world however I strongly agree with rehabilitation over revenge.
The inmate puts it perfectly when he asked who you would rather have moving in next door.
Cheers!
Summary you can't have homely prisons whilst there are people on the outside without homes. It honestly could become an incentive to commit crime.
if the rich elite did nt evade tax we d be able to ..we re ment to be more wealthy than norway its just the rich elite hoarding it that makes puts us decades even centuries behind places like norway...fuck its getting more and more like victorian times here in the uk ...
I’m from Norway and it’s the same for me. We’ve got leftist and right wing parties, but an American once observed that Norway’s right wing parties are so moderate right that they would be referred to as “goddamn commies” in 🇺🇸
My god do the subtitles deviate greatly from the orignial at times...
This made me cry.
Unfortunately people are too petty to focus on rehabilitation. They prefer the good feeling of "justice" being served
Yes. I get sick when I see all the perverse comments on a lot of American prison videos. It's so scary when people mistake a sense of justice with their own personal lust for revenge.
Great video Shaun.
American prisons look like prisons in the Nordics from 100 years ago. So fucking degrading, dangerous, and inhumane. No dignity, no preventive work, no social security... No wonder you have the world's LARGEST prison population per capita, high recidivism, and a really high crime rate.
Rehabilitation and a relatively normal sense of reality seems to be the way to imprison criminals. I would love to hear the views of a victim's relative. Any clips??
Our mindset is that even if there is privacy, even if they can work, roam free inside the walls during the day, they are still in prison. Most complaints on the Norwegian justice system is that the time served is to short, not the way they serve their time. Max sentence in Norway is 21 years, with a minimum serving of 10.
There is custodial sentencing, which means after you serve your time, you’ll have to go to a new trial where you stand the risk of being sentenced again for the same crime (which could potentially be a life sentence of sorts, but not guaranteed), but as far as I’m aware, there is only one prisoner in Norway that will never be free again, and that’s Anders Behring Breivik (The terrorist who shot and killed 77 kids and teens)
Obviously a victim or victims family of a violent crime, sexual crime, or any other life changing and devastating crime will always view the punishment of the criminal as to lenient, but seeing that we don’t have a definitive life sentence in Norway, I’d much rather have a murderer that has been rehabilitated and made into a productive member of society living next to me, than a convicted murderer that has been spending 25 years in a cage building up anger against society and authority living next to me.
One of the hallmarks of civilization is how we treat the worst of us.
some Norwegian prisons have less equipment and have jobs that are more mundane (making pallets and similar stuff), but they usually have a partnership with a nearby college or uni that could provide courses or education for inmates who want to study, and are behaving of course. Staying in a place where you have certain accomodations that will make the days, months and years go by a little easier, encourages more types of inmates than you'd think to make an effort to stay within the boundaries they are given. Also, if an inmate breaks rules, is verbally abusive, or attacks someone; they will loose more privileges. In cases where they stay at a low security prison, they might get transferred to a maximum security prison for some time, if not for the rest of their sentence. However, they can regain privileges, and they can apply for a return to a low security prison again after some time, usually coupled with counseling and approval from their co. and that is something I believe makes for some to try to change, when they see that if they mess up, it aint over for the rest of their time, but it takes effort to have all the benefits that are available
yes and the prisoners here also get treated with respect and not animosity, and that is a big thing.
NAILED IT WITH THAT VIDEO ATTY!
Prisons should be like a military training camp, they should be highly structured and strict yet fair and focus on individuals gaining skills and pride in themselves so they don't recommit crime once released.
So why does prisons like this work then? You can help and fix without this military style. Seen shit about that style too. Ego trip
Hey being confined in any prison sucks. In US prisons, it's dog eat dog, weak get extorted etc. How does that prepare anyone to succeed in civilian life? Bury murderers and sex offenders under the prison. Short of that just being confined is punishment enough.
@TheOriginal GGHarasser well I guess all the evidence pointing towards zero properly functioning rehab for child molesters is wrong. Who knew?
This is just one prison. Norway is known for prolonged periods, meaning years of total isolation. This has been deemed torture by international courts and many don't make it out because of being driven to suicide due to the mental problems that come with isolation. Guards have been known to encourage inmates to suicide as well.
For more info regarding the Norwegian prison system, go to Varg's channel at Thulean Perspective
Blazing Star
That’s true but the USA does this as well.
I'm Norwegian and this is not true
I am always equally shocked how callous Americans seem to be about anyone in prison. It seem they feel that if someone has landed themselves in prison they must tolerate anything that happens there. Rotten food? Tough shit, should have thought about that before you wrote that check you knew you couldn’t cover! Prison rape? Maybe you shouldn’t have try to shoplift a Christmas meal for your kids? You’re made to assemble stuff for big corporations as a slave while you owe the prison big money for overpriced calls so you can speak with you mama and your kids once a month? Well you should have though of that before you got yourself hooked on painkillers and couldn’t afford drug treatment!. The US attitude is: you get convicted and suddenly your life and dignity is worthless, no matter what you did to get there, whether it’s murder or Mail fraud, it’s all the same.
Well one thing is sure, if the prisons were less violent people would use LESS guns when they do crimes. Because they would not be as insanely afraid to end up in prison like they are now in the USA.
Most politicians in America want to be seen as being tough on crime.
Respect
problem is that USA jails for non violent offenses. too many ppl to have this kind of treatment
The US does death camps very well.
By the end the American bloke was starting to have a small change of heart from when we first saw him
There are thoughts of me sometimes not wanting to leave in the US but there are other thoughts that say you won’t survive in other countries.
Why would you think that?
In Norway this system works because the crime rate in general is much lower than many countries, and I think that, in some extent, the US can learn from this, but to fully implement it in the US isn't a good idea since it wouldn't work at all
the joy of reason good point
Yes, prison reform is only one issue that can't be tackled alone. In the USA the public education system is broken. Mental health provision for low income groups is non existent. The gap between rich & poor is massive.
America deals with a much more diverse people ... I think that's why the purpose is different..
Honestly America just being "different" is a convenient scapegoat for a lot of things we hear...
Very American approach for the reward of your job being able to go home to your family at the end of the day.
In the free world that is the starting point.
Shame on US for its murderous brutal system and perverse corrupt 'justice' system, UK not much better and heading the same way. Brilliant to see what the Norwegians are doing.
Wow .... awesome concept
concept?
Halden prison was home of Varg Virkenes of the Black Metal Band Mayhem; he murdered fellow band member Euronymous and was implicated in Church burnings in the 1990s . He also escaped once at had ties to the Neo-Nazi organizations and was recaptured in cabin with bunch of weapons . He is free now because the maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years! Varg is now a blogger, survivalist and Odinist . He had You-Tube Channel called Thulean Perspectives . He now lives in France with his wife and kids in France. The recent movie “The Lords of Chaos” is about the rise of Mayhem and the Black Metal movement and church burnings and murdèrs in the early 90s. The movie sucks and not very accurate. . Say what you want about Varg he is highly intelligent and very well read.! I don’t agree with all of Varg says he has very interesting points! He also is doting father.
i love how varg has basically memed himself back into relevancy
@@701delbronx8 He's pretty ignorant. He thought the average life expectancy of finland was 50 because of rampant alcoholism
You do realize that the movie isnt suppose to be real but only for entertainment purposes.. pretty sure they didnt want to do a full bio of varg what he done. Varg is just a close minded moron thats gonna die alone... im suprise that his youtube channel is still up and running i would've thought youtube would ban him by now.
Batty Ghøst They even took away the warning label they put before his videos. You-Tube and Twitter are such fucking hypocrites; people were calling for the deaths of those Covington Kids and Twitter did nothing. Varg is intelligent; but I don’t agree with his views; but he should have the right to express them. They let LeftWing Lintards rant and rave and ANTIFA say what ever they want.
Fthcf Vgtjbv source? Also there is some seed of truth to that and Varg often speaks of traditional Finnish people and their culture and religion with utmost respect.
Norway has had to close prisons due to lack of repeat offenders. Maybe they could help the US actually rehabilitate its prisoners by taking importing them to Norway???
Fun facts about the Norwegian reoffending rate statistics:
Violence: 60%
Theft/Robbery: 75%
Drugs: 50%
Let that sink in for a second.
Source: www.nrk.no/norge/norge-er-ikke-bedre-pa-tilbakefall-1.8055256
People complaining that "hurg durg they're prisoners they should b punisHED" is clearly missing the big picture. Norway has the worlds lowest re-offending rate at only 30%, and it's pretty obvious that this method is working. As many other comments have pointed out before me, is that if you treat a human like an animal, they will become animals. If you treat them with respect and give them a chance to redeem themselves, they will more often than not be released as new and reinvented people.
The one guy doesn't get it. It's not society that's locked up. It's these man. They are the ones who need to be rehabilitated so they can be better persons.
we could only wish to have that kind of prison here in the states
It is complicated.
Victims of crimes and their families
are the ones that will never recover.
Fear of going to prison is a major
deterrent to many troubled individuals.
If Norway's system makes criminals
feel comfortable, they would not think
twice, before committing any kind of crime against anybody.
Please show us, how victims of crimes are always treated and compensated
for their pain and loses.
Hope it is at least 100 times better
than the punishment.
Prison works as a deterrent in Norway as well. Lower crime than in the US, lower recidivism. You would think if harsher punishment was a deterrent that the US would not have anyone going back.
"Victims of crimes and their families
are the ones that will never recover."
True. There's no changing the past. Only thing we can do is to try prevent it from happening again to someone else. Every criminal that don't go back to crime after serving their sentence means _at least_ one victim that never came to be, that didn't have to recover etc. Before you commit your first crime, you're not a criminal, you're indistinguishable from everyone else. Once you've committed one, though, we know that unless something changes, you're very likely to keep committing crimes and that helping the necessary changes happen is the better option.
"Fear of going to prison is a major
deterrent to many troubled individuals."
That's not what I've seen. On the contrary, going to prison is primarily a concern for those who have their shit together, not the ones living rough, fighting to survive, get food (or drugs) etc. Even so, what most people fear is getting caught, which may sound like nit picking, but something that psychologically allows us to turn it into a gamble, calculated risk thing, rather than a consequence of our actions. If your life is shite, you're taking worse risks all the time in many cases.
"If Norway's system makes criminals
feel comfortable, they would not think twice, before committing any kind of crime against anybody."
While seemingly logical/sensible, that claim is thoroughly debunked by the actual numbers, though. Fewer crimes committed, lower recidivism rates. Even a gilded cage is a cage.
"Please show us, how victims of crimes are always treated and compensated
for their pain and loses.
Hope it is at least 100 times better
than the punishment."
You know, that's not even possible. In the real world, consequences can't be truly compensated for - what's happened has happened. The best we can realistically hope for is bad things not happening in the first place. Crime prevention is a huge area, covering everything from racism, classism, poverty, education, job opportunities etc etc, and experiments like the Halden prison is giving us valuable information, just like youth outreach programmes in poor and underprivileged neighbourhoods. Revenge has never been shown to be a good way to improve society, though - on the contrary - and human kind has tried it for thousands upon thousands of years. If it did work, we'd known a long time ago. It only make people more creative and/or competitive about who's the bigger threat. It's a dead end.
To the individual victims it may very well seem like the perpetrator is getting off way too easy if they get to live in better conditions than the victim itself (ignoring the lack of freedom - something that more people might start to understand what means to your psyche etc now with widespread lockdowns etc) - that's easy to understand. The government isn't tasked with making individuals feel avenged etc though, it's tasked to keep crime down and make sure there's consequences for breaking the law. In a wider perspective, revenge is highly counter productive, and a poor choice by the government. And it's a good thing it's up to the government rather than the victims as the victims are emotionally invested, obviously, thus it'd be a huge ask of them to go for the more efficient way of dealing with criminals - treating them like the humans they still are.
One focuses on rehabilitation (that's why it's so weird) the other on money, seems like that's what happens if prison is a business not a 'public service' ran by a more humane government.
New York prisons aren't a business. They're 100 percent funded by tax dollars. It's not a privatized for profit prison. It's 100 percent loss of tax money and comes out of the state's annual budget. As opposed to using those funds more positively.
Judicial and prison system in the US is still similar to medieval systems. What a hellhole.
Torille!
That female correction officers says it all. It's about her going home alive. She is in a survival mode on her work. Nothing more. She might as well be a robot. The stress she must have day in day out!! Mest up.
Privatization of prisons combined with a growing police state means we will need to fight to take our freedom back. The longer this curroption goes unchecked the harder it will be to fix. The us penal system is the canary.
One thing I don't understand about the Norwegian prison system.
What do they do with prison inmates who will never reintegrate into society again? (For example: "Fjotolf Hansen" former known as "Anders Breivik", the guy who killed 60+ teenagers in a massacre)
That's a very philosophical question, but is taking away his freedom enough? Or should he also get taken away the quality of a comfortable prison cell etc. ?
@UC2divDW3EP-fsoMYKxuRt0A I only heard about the case he lost about "human rights violation". In my opinion this man lost the priviledge to be treated as a human.
Did he act humane when he pulled the trigger to kill as many teenagers as he can? Is it humane that he never showed any remorse about his actions.
I'm not Norwegian (Austrian) but I'm honestly as disgusted as you guys about how he got his comfortable cell with entertainment system. How he can legally change his name just for fun. How he gets out to court to waste the taxpayers money even more.
I think it needs a special law for inmates like him.
@@Deisinator Nobody cares. He isn't enjoying his time in prison. Just because someone is an animal doesn't mean other ppl have to start behaving like him. It would even affect the psychological mindset of the correction officers if they would have to implement inhumane conditions on him. Everyone should let him be and continue to focus on building a safe country and thats what they are doing.
It is what it is. Do you want a prison that benefits the system, or do you want a system that benefits the revengeful feelings of those who've lost someone or something? In a _very_ Christian country, that seriously should put your _true_ religiosity to the test. Hello from Norway.
Is that the island prison in norway??? Saw a doc about it years ago. I also live in the general vicinity of Attica. I've met ex inamtes, even a few that were there for the riot....
The island is called Bastøy. It's the last place for inmates to go before they get released. You have been a good boy if you get the privilege to stay there. 😊 Make a smooth transition back to society
@@skyvision7363 there going back to a good society thats the difference as well
I know the Norwegian system is infinitely better but I don't think the Americans will ever adopt something similar. Crime and punishment is politicised to such an extent anyone viewed as being soft of crime will lose votes. Also I'm pretty sure the US jails more of its per capita population the Norway does, so I would envisage a massive increase in the cost.
I do have a genuine question about the Norwegian system. Is Anders Brevik held in somewhere liker Halder or is he in more of a US style situation? Not saying he necessarily should be allowed to mix with other inmates but I would be interested to know.
Vengeance is the priority for many Americans when it comes to the administration of justice. The commercalisation of law and order exacerbates this. Having the public elect judges/ sheriffs/ attorneys is also unhealthy.
also if you know you are not going to live in hell for years on end you are less likely to resist arrest to the point of a suicidal shooting, putting both the charged and the police in a ether position
The chuckling about the violence, halden had one incident, and Attica last had one on "Tuesday."
There is just a different makeup of the populations.
The canned goods ban? Because it's the most crude weapon that the gang that controls the phones will open up your face for using the phone without being able to pay them.
People can cry at systemic differences but understand that the populations are VERY different between the two facilities, and at some point the blame for heinous violence between inmates can be placed at their own feet, as opposed to the concept of perpetual victimhood.
Side note check out the story on my page about Donald Nash, He decapitated someone at Auburn CF. St attica as wrll
What would happen to shamima begum if she returned to the UK?
FREE THOSE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE ....
survival is for the most fit ,let's have at one another and the better of us will remain standing....
no building can keep the mind
"what was the last time we had an assault on an inmate here?:
me: hmm is this him going to pretend that the revenge system is better? i think he sounds genuine so probably no...?
"Tuesday"
me: damn... BUUUUUUUUURN
This isn't available on UK netflix, how did you watch it Shaun?
This is outstanding content. I only wish more people here in North America were aware of the contrast. What saddens me so much is the savage nature of not only certain criminals, but the general public who crave bloodlust for the accused. I guarantee you that the initial reaction of a fairly significant number North American s after watching this video would be one of disdain. That is how hateful a lot of people are. But I sincerely believe the majority would see Norway s system as the best form of quote punishment combined with rehabilitation. I honestly do not understand why so many people think America is the land of the free. That is nonsense. Unless you have a few million dollars in pocket change, you are fucked.
The maximum sentence for capital murder is 20 years in Norway. All of this only works in cultures like Norway's. U.S. incoming inmates are more akin to gorillas than to humans.
21 years and that can be extended in 5 year increments.
Shout out to my cousins who live in the town of Attica