Entertainment is very subjective. The technical information Glenn brings to his videos is not going to be as appealing to people who prefer action-oriented entertainment. Glenn is more an educator, with an entertainment component than he is a singular entertainer. If the acquisition of knowledge and the understanding of how things work isn't in your wheelhouse then videos like this are probably going to be boring to you. It's all good. There's lots of stuff out there.
HI Glenn, speaking as an aerospace engineer, "the air sticks better" is 100% a term we would use in school. You explanation was actually really good! Also, the downside to the VGs is that you're probably not getting quite as good performance at the highest speeds, though given that you're using a prop-plane you might not be going fast enough to really make a difference. Also, the wing extensions are probably compensating, though probably at some minor detriment to your roll performance. Like you said at the beginning of the vid: Design trade-offs.
I'm not an aeronautical engineer. I agree with all of your comments, but I would want to add that on an airplane like a 172, or most any piston powered aircraft that doesn't exceed 200 knots IAS, I really doubt that it makes all that much difference in terms of negative effects. At least, if the aircraft is flown in the manner for which it was intended.
@@GaryMCurran In our 185 we didn’t see an increase in drag difference unless we left climb power after level off at sea level, which is entering the yellow arc. At cruise altitudes, flying lean of peak, there was no noticeable difference. We did notice a 3-5 MPH TAS cruise increase after adding flap gap seals and a tendency to once again go into the yellow arc during the aforementioned climb power when level at sea level. For the flap gap seal naysayers, there was no observable change in stall speed with the flap gap seals. I live at 5400’ with a 1400’ gravel runway, so short field capability is important, especially for high DA takeoffs. Flap gap seals are not an issue. But like I said, there is no change in stall speed that I noticed, because the gap opens when the Fowler flaps are extended. I recommend the Knots2u brand, which are removable should one notice a change in stall speed and plan to compete in STOL competition. Put them back on for a long XC and enjoy the speed…where the airplane will be the majority of the time. FWIW…
Glen, between your popular cooking channel (which I watch religiously) and now your Hanger channel....why do I feel like you are my next door neighbor who I have known for years? Thanks for sharing everything because I know what a chore this can be. Stay safe in the air!
Glen, it all makes sense. I conceptualize this by remembering that the Wright brothers were successful because they studied birds, and they made their wings more bird-like. You’re just continuing that trend. Ailerons, flaps, curved leading edges, vortex generators, etc. are doing (with metal and mechanisms) what birds do with bone structure, feathers, and muscles. They change the shape of their wings to meet different flight requirements.
I remember skydiving out of a 172 many years ago. In order to get the load up to altitude the pilot had to constantly fly on the stall. Never knew this till a pilot came to do a jump class, and his eyes were the size of dinner plates. Asked him why and he explained what the beeping was as we climbed. Made me glad i wore a parachute after that😁.
That's not right. The stall horn must have been malfunctioning. Maximum rate of climb in a 172 is at 91 mph while stall speed is 61. At close to the stall, the plane won't climb at all. Also, no pilot jumps out of a perfectly good airplane.
I've flown 172s for a jump club and I never had to fly on the stall while dropping jumpers. How many jumpers was he carrying? Just dug out my 172 manual, stall speed fully loaded is between 42 and 50 knots while best rate of climb is between 68 and 72.
Most pilots will agree that there is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane, and that all flight is controlled crashing.. IE get the hell out if at all possible. ;)
Your video inspired me to look up how to read a wind sock. I didn't realize that the stripes were calibrated to tell you specific wind speeds. That's really cool!
Well, i found a real gem here. I went to look up soda pop making videos and i found some aviation videos in this channel too. Im into aviation, but im not a pilot yet. I just use flight sims, read books and watch videos. i have learned a lot though from where i was before.
Glen, I've been following this project since you started. What a difference! The plane has turned out very nicely. Thanks for sharing! What is the brand of the tailskid and VG's you used?
I really appreciate the way Glen explains things in a way that people that know little to nothing of aviation or airflow can understand it. I know quite a bit about it and still find Glen's videos interesting and enjoyable to watch.
I'm quite impressed that the top speed and fuel consumption are effectively unchanged. You would think the larger wing would add to the drag and the VGs take energy from the aircraft, but there may be synergistic effects that offset these. Or conversely at the slow flight speed the delta is too small to matter.
I believe its reducing drag on the plane will change your fuel consumption. In aviation there’s many form of drag that can make burn more fuel than less. VG and Wing extension help in slow flight and boost in cruise by a tiny bit, like 2 knots. To reduce fuel burn i believe is reduce as much interference drag on the plane as possible and polish the wing to reduce skin friction drag as well. Any sharp angles lesser than 90 degrees is a interference drag. Another tip bit is Gap flap seals where you seal the gap between the wing and flap. Air flows into the gap and cause interference. Theyre a few areas on the plane that you can modded and make it efficiently as possible. Im planning on doing the same once I get my aircraft too
G,day Glen from Sydney Australia. Great explanation of the planes modifications; * Wing extensions and strengthen straps * Vortex generators * Tail skid rail 🌏🇦🇺
Glen, never fear that you are not bringing fascinating facts to the vlog, because although I know nothing of aeronautics, this is still engaging for me! Keep it up and thank you!
Bachelor degree in airspace engineering and working towards master here, first of all I want to say that everything you said is correct and you also explained well the intuition behind, also good job on the mod, looks pergect; and it must be said that aerodynamics is very close to black magic. Anyway I'll try to give some insight in the phaenomenon: lets start by considering the air moving at speed and the wing stationary, angle of attack 0°, you have tha air molecules that touch the wing that adhere to it and so are stationary too, and than you have an approximately one inch (depends on airspeed) layer called boundary layer of air that gains speed as it gets farther from the wing untill the full airspeed of the "undisturbed flow" (same speed as where there is no interaction with plane). Now how the air, and in terms the plane, behaving depends of a balance of pressure and energy of the airflow (which depends of speed), to simplify lets say that the lower pressure on top of the wing tries to pull on the boundary layer and detach it from the wing, when this happen it's called stall and your wing virtually behaves as if it was as thick as the detached airflow (actually the boundary layer starts detaching on the trailing edge even before stalling but I'll keep it as simple as possible), while the speed of the flow works for keeping it attached to the wing but as it travels on top of the wing it looses energy to it through viscosity and when the speed is too low the air detaches from the wing. So to avoid, or to say better retard, this you try to give more speed, and with that energy, to the air closest to the wing and you can do it by mixing the faster air farther from the wing with the slower on it, that's what the vorteces generated by the VG do. You could do it even by blowing compressed air through bleedholes on top of the wing but it's far more complex. I'm sorry but I can't come up with anything just written to explain how different leading edges influences stall, I would need at least some graphs. As an end note I find quite curious that you don't experience increased drag at least for the extended wingspan, I guess that it could be because it balances out with the reduction of induced drag.
Interesting at the end when you said it didn't affect the speed or fuel flow. The whole time I've watched this addition, that's what I was thinking in the back of my mind- figured the extra lift would increase drag in cruise and make it slower/burn more? If not-that's a great modification!
I did the same to our 185. Surprisingly, the Owner’s Manual states 75mph for short field landings (@ GW). With a useful load of 1700#, the airplane can be flown slower than that when empty. Now with the Sportsman cuff, the WingX and Micro Aero VG’s when light, I fly 50mph (43 knots) on short final. Pretty dramatic difference. Besides the 175# GW increase with the WingX, the VG’s on the tail provide a 12 knot directional control advantage in the 185 (according to Micro Aero) for an added advantage during XW landings and a considerable advantage in pitch control sensitivity when slow. I get why you did all this. Once you adapt to the new flight characteristics you will be impressed even more. Now you need a 180hp STC with a prop to match. It’s an addiction.
Hi Glenn, I don't know much about aircraft and or design, but I was able to follow along with your explanation, so I wouldn't' worry too much about how you are describing it. I look forward to seeing the work done in your following instalments.
Makes a ton of sense and adds some details I didn’t understand in the last video. Thank you very much for taking the time to share these explanations. I really appreciate it.
😀RELAX Glen! it makes sense! I have a fair non pilot, engineering understanding of the mechanics of lift and STOL, and you managed to teach me some things, where I had understood the concept, but not directly known the Why/how.. All was clear and made sense, well done!👍👍 As always, looking forward tot he next episode!
Thanks for taking the time to explain. It must have been tough to keep from throwing "laminar flow" in there at least once. :) Congrats on all the work; she's a beauty. Looking forward to your travels. Hope you make it to YYC some day.
Glenn, this is your funnest video yet. Made me laugh watching you struggle. You did fine and sometimes less is more. A white board could have helped in showing/drawing how the angle of attack results in the de-lamination of the airflow over the top of the wing. No biggie though, you got the point across. ;-) I love what you are doing to the old bird. She looks great and I have been fallowing along since you started the videos.
JUST to add a wee bit to 'Lift.' Wings fly by SUCTION. The aircraft is pulled UP... by the amount of suction. Daniel Bernoulli's principle states, that an increase in the speed of a fluid occurs simultaneously with a decrease in static pressure or a decrease in the fluid's potential energy. Simply, pressure decreases when the flow speed increases. Since Nature ABHORS a vacuum, it will 'fill the void' with anything available, such as a wing. Airplanes don't get LIFTED off the ground and into the air.... they get sucked up. =)
I'm glad your back. From a layman's point of view, your explanations were very good. I am not a pilot but I have always found the technology to be very interesting. You would never want me as your pilot because I don't have the patience for the landing. I know this from flying my PC, Microsoft flight simulator about 25 years ago. I am better of playing with my sports cars. I hope to see you in Texas.
From what I remember from my training the Vortex Generators re-energise the Boundry Layer. The Boundry Layer is the air that actually touches the aircraft.
Very nice, and the explanation was reasonable. I guess the next thing will be reinforcing the front landing gear and putting on tundra tires. Then you can go back-country camping.
I'm not a pilot however I've been an aviation nut since I was a kid. I was intrigued by the space race as a child. When I was 8..10 years old I wanted to grow up to be the next Igor Sikorsky. I do get the terms and concepts and its fascinating. Amazingly what's jaw dropping is the VG fins and how such a seemingly insignificant change actually is so beneficial. Has any significant weight been added or is it negligible as the changes provide better lift and improve aerodynamics? A beautiful aircraft. Thanks again
Not an aviator here... but you did a fine job of explaining... cool mods... but where did you put the cooktop and kitchen sink... Mile High Cooking with Glen would be the ultimate cooking experience... Pasta over Naples... Quiche over Paris... Enchiladas over Mexico City...😁... WE might need a larger plane, like a DC3...
I have always wondered about using for testing. Gm fuel tank pressure sensors in various access hatches perhaps with a data recorder or 10 segment LEDs to indicate how much reduction. In pressure above the wing to look for stall issues . This could use 1/8inch nylon or bigger tube threaded thru the wing to allow multiple sensors to monitor pressures the tiny holes in replacement access panels..
Did you fly it between mods? It would be interesting to see which mods improved what characteristic. I had a 78 172 that already had a Cessna cuff. The VG's changed it dramatically. Solid controls to the extent that on the first flight I came right back because I thought there was something stuck in the rudder; it was so solid in slow flight. Rock that baby on its tail on take off and you're flying! Fun project! You'll need to learn to fly it slower on landing or it will float forever :)
I'm keeping your subscription with my eyes on your upgrades, as there will come a time when I'll probably be looking to getting a plane, and at my age, 172's are probably one of the two, maybe three, for which I could get insurance. One of my first additions would be AmSafe air bags. However, with a stol wing and vg's, a whole frame parachute might not offer that much more protection in the event of an engine failure. 🙂
NIce explanation for the layman on what you've done, and it looks really nice. So, you've added three feet of wingspan. You say that it helps on take off, which no doubt it does. You also said that you can land at the old speed of around 60mph. I guess I'm curious, can you actually get the airplane on the ground with the cuffs, the VGs and the extensions at 60mph, or does it float down the runway? I would be thinking that unless you can in with a really flat attitude, that you're going to be hanging in the air at 60mph trying to get that airplane down.
Gary C. You are correct. The stall speed is reduced, so the approach speed must be reduced accordingly. Normally, approach speed is 1.3x the stall speed based on your actual weight. The approach speed in the book is based on the aircraft gross weight, so if you are lighter the approach speed should be based on your actual weight. Unfortunately, many pilots fly too fast, with resulting float, higher touchdown speeds and long landings.
On your tail skid. Did you see the wing tip skids mike patey put on Draco to stop the wings from digging in if you ground loop it. Not that it stopped him from breaking everybodies heart and ground looping draco in a huge crosswind
Its definitely cool to be able to take off from short strips. Ive flown in a 500kg Evektor-EV97 and it was a lot of fun. I believe wings are designed to actually promote stalling of the wing at the leading edge for stability to decrease the risk of a spin. The leading edge and tip extensions will probably affect things like best glide speed and climb speeds Vx and Vy, not sure how you'd determine these or do the manufacturers of the extensions provide figures?
Okay Glen, now you gotta get yer butt in the cockpit, get it in the air and give us a pilot POV play by play on how you feel it's handling. Looking forward to that stuff pal. ;p)
I think I remember the strengthening bars added to the wing are stainless steel. Is there a concern of electrolysis with the aluminum? Question is a little late - just found this channel. Thanks for the content!
I wonder if the vortex generators cause airflow over the wing to slow down by spinning the air stream which stretches the air which lowers the pressure giving to additional lift.
Great video, question. Is stability affected at all by adding wing extensions?, prop to tail remain the same so I wonder if you felt a change on the extra mass of the wings but same mass at tail.
Interesting fact. Your B model had a 33ft wingspan. The later Skyhawks had 36ft wingspans so you now have the same wing length as the later cessna’s. I fly an M model and it really does not stall in the normal sense. It just losses about 500 ft/ min straight ahead. At stall speed no flaps.
I love these videos. I have always wanted to learn to fly but sadly, that ship has sailed. PS...you need to take time to get a haircut before it reaches Covid length.
As you lower your stall speeds and lower your TO speeds are you not also reducing your margin for error if you fly close to those new lower speeds? If you stall at 65 without the Mods and now stall at 55 with the mods will you not still teach yourself that you stall at 65 still so that you don't use up your safety margin n you just gained ? Great update, thanks.
I'm starting the suspect the VGs are needed with Wing-X. Too bad all the changes were done all at once, would have been really useful to understand Wing-X performance & downsides on its own. Considering it for my Cessna 170. However, whereas some x-wind performance loss is acceptable to a 172, I would say I can't risk loosing any x-wind performance on my 170. The safety benefits of faster climb and engine out glide ratio would be offset by the chance of groundlooping.
Considering that you are trying to explain to some of the non pilots out there, perhaps this video should have started with an explanation of 'stall' which would require an explanation of how a wing produces lift.
Glen, I've been teaching flying for a long time now and you did a really good job explaining the mods and what they do in an accessible way. Well done! I have one question though: were the wing mods just for safety, or were they for STOL performance, or both? In your explanation, they seemed to be more safety-based. Just curious.
Mostly with an eye to STOL performance so we can fly to smaller grass / gravel strips… and maybe a logging road or two. But for most of our flying around Southern Ontario it was about a safety margin and a bonus 50 pounds of gross weight.
the short answer to why is!!! because you have the money!!! :) if you keep the old 0-300 climbing will still the same climbing.... with 40 flap you can land really slow... i have a 1958...
The skid plate will wear out over time and be replaced - I won’t always take off in such a nose up attitude, most of the time I’ll just use a regular takeoff roll. But having it there is a great option for those shorter strips.
You mentioned a lot of things that are improved by your modifications, but I don't think you mentioned increased load capacity. Is that one of the benefits?
Interesting that you aren't seeing an impact in fuel use or cruising speed. I had assumed that improving STOL performance (such as some added weight, both increased "parasite" and "induced" drag) would trade off cruise performance.
Flew the first couple times with Chris (he is also a commercial pilot and flight instructor), then I flew with a 30 year veteran of Cathay Pacific who is also a flight instructor.
The Sportsman STOL leading edge was negligable - the WingX STOL wing extensions gave us a gross weight increase / useful load increase of 50 pounds. If I had the larger Hp engines the load increase would have been larger.
We strengthened a few spots along the spar ( you’ll see in next vid) and this allowed an increase in gross weight. If I had the larger engine the increase would have been larger.
Dam this was boring.
what do you know
@@ansonnaeollivierre5667 probably nothing. I like Glen’s channel. I suppose I like giving him good natured grief too.
Go watch something else. This is aviation piloting ownership geekness at its finest.
@@SimonAmazingClarke I agree. Fun channel.
Entertainment is very subjective. The technical information Glenn brings to his videos is not going to be as appealing to people who prefer action-oriented entertainment.
Glenn is more an educator, with an entertainment component than he is a singular entertainer.
If the acquisition of knowledge and the understanding of how things work isn't in your wheelhouse then videos like this are probably going to be boring to you.
It's all good. There's lots of stuff out there.
HI Glenn, speaking as an aerospace engineer, "the air sticks better" is 100% a term we would use in school. You explanation was actually really good!
Also, the downside to the VGs is that you're probably not getting quite as good performance at the highest speeds, though given that you're using a prop-plane you might not be going fast enough to really make a difference. Also, the wing extensions are probably compensating, though probably at some minor detriment to your roll performance. Like you said at the beginning of the vid: Design trade-offs.
I'm not an aeronautical engineer. I agree with all of your comments, but I would want to add that on an airplane like a 172, or most any piston powered aircraft that doesn't exceed 200 knots IAS, I really doubt that it makes all that much difference in terms of negative effects. At least, if the aircraft is flown in the manner for which it was intended.
@@GaryMCurran In our 185 we didn’t see an increase in drag difference unless we left climb power after level off at sea level, which is entering the yellow arc. At cruise altitudes, flying lean of peak, there was no noticeable difference.
We did notice a 3-5 MPH TAS cruise increase after adding flap gap seals and a tendency to once again go into the yellow arc during the aforementioned climb power when level at sea level. For the flap gap seal naysayers, there was no observable change in stall speed with the flap gap seals. I live at 5400’ with a 1400’ gravel runway, so short field capability is important, especially for high DA takeoffs. Flap gap seals are not an issue. But like I said, there is no change in stall speed that I noticed, because the gap opens when the Fowler flaps are extended. I recommend the Knots2u brand, which are removable should one notice a change in stall speed and plan to compete in STOL competition. Put them back on for a long XC and enjoy the speed…where the airplane will be the majority of the time.
FWIW…
Making a video to explain the stuff you did that you forgot to explain in videos you haven't released yet is so Canadian.... respect my man
Glen, between your popular cooking channel (which I watch religiously) and now your Hanger channel....why do I feel like you are my next door neighbor who I have known for years? Thanks for sharing everything because I know what a chore this can be. Stay safe in the air!
So, actually some improvements in design since 1961? Amazing!
I know right.😄
Roughly 61 years of new tech.
It's about the same amount of innovation from the Write Brothers to when the 172 was built.
can't wait for you and jules to do some travelling sounds like a lot of fun
Glen, it all makes sense.
I conceptualize this by remembering that the Wright brothers were successful because they studied birds, and they made their wings more bird-like. You’re just continuing that trend. Ailerons, flaps, curved leading edges, vortex generators, etc. are doing (with metal and mechanisms) what birds do with bone structure, feathers, and muscles. They change the shape of their wings to meet different flight requirements.
I remember skydiving out of a 172 many years ago. In order to get the load up to altitude the pilot had to constantly fly on the stall. Never knew this till a pilot came to do a jump class, and his eyes were the size of dinner plates. Asked him why and he explained what the beeping was as we climbed. Made me glad i wore a parachute after that😁.
That's not right. The stall horn must have been malfunctioning. Maximum rate of climb in a 172 is at 91 mph while stall speed is 61. At close to the stall, the plane won't climb at all. Also, no pilot jumps out of a perfectly good airplane.
I've flown 172s for a jump club and I never had to fly on the stall while dropping jumpers. How many jumpers was he carrying? Just dug out my 172 manual, stall speed fully loaded is between 42 and 50 knots while best rate of climb is between 68 and 72.
Most pilots will agree that there is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane, and that all flight is controlled crashing.. IE get the hell out if at all possible. ;)
Your video inspired me to look up how to read a wind sock. I didn't realize that the stripes were calibrated to tell you specific wind speeds. That's really cool!
AND you just caused me to look it up, I never knew it as well! Thanks!
Well, i found a real gem here. I went to look up soda pop making videos and i found some aviation videos in this channel too. Im into aviation, but im not a pilot yet. I just use flight sims, read books and watch videos. i have learned a lot though from where i was before.
Glen, I've been following this project since you started. What a difference! The plane has turned out very nicely. Thanks for sharing! What is the brand of the tailskid and VG's you used?
Excellent explanation
I really appreciate the way Glen explains things in a way that people that know little to nothing of aviation or airflow can understand it. I know quite a bit about it and still find Glen's videos interesting and enjoyable to watch.
THANK YOU...I have the same plane and you have sold me...right behind you!!! Again, Thank You!!!!!!!!!! Excellent and simple explanations.
I'm quite impressed that the top speed and fuel consumption are effectively unchanged. You would think the larger wing would add to the drag and the VGs take energy from the aircraft, but there may be synergistic effects that offset these. Or conversely at the slow flight speed the delta is too small to matter.
I believe its reducing drag on the plane will change your fuel consumption. In aviation there’s many form of drag that can make burn more fuel than less. VG and Wing extension help in slow flight and boost in cruise by a tiny bit, like 2 knots. To reduce fuel burn i believe is reduce as much interference drag on the plane as possible and polish the wing to reduce skin friction drag as well. Any sharp angles lesser than 90 degrees is a interference drag. Another tip bit is Gap flap seals where you seal the gap between the wing and flap. Air flows into the gap and cause interference. Theyre a few areas on the plane that you can modded and make it efficiently as possible.
Im planning on doing the same once I get my aircraft too
G,day Glen from Sydney Australia.
Great explanation of the planes modifications;
* Wing extensions and strengthen straps
* Vortex generators
* Tail skid rail
🌏🇦🇺
So Glen, when are you going to start shopping for floats? John
Glen, never fear that you are not bringing fascinating facts to the vlog, because although I know nothing of aeronautics, this is still engaging for me! Keep it up and thank you!
Bachelor degree in airspace engineering and working towards master here, first of all I want to say that everything you said is correct and you also explained well the intuition behind, also good job on the mod, looks pergect; and it must be said that aerodynamics is very close to black magic. Anyway I'll try to give some insight in the phaenomenon: lets start by considering the air moving at speed and the wing stationary, angle of attack 0°, you have tha air molecules that touch the wing that adhere to it and so are stationary too, and than you have an approximately one inch (depends on airspeed) layer called boundary layer of air that gains speed as it gets farther from the wing untill the full airspeed of the "undisturbed flow" (same speed as where there is no interaction with plane). Now how the air, and in terms the plane, behaving depends of a balance of pressure and energy of the airflow (which depends of speed), to simplify lets say that the lower pressure on top of the wing tries to pull on the boundary layer and detach it from the wing, when this happen it's called stall and your wing virtually behaves as if it was as thick as the detached airflow (actually the boundary layer starts detaching on the trailing edge even before stalling but I'll keep it as simple as possible), while the speed of the flow works for keeping it attached to the wing but as it travels on top of the wing it looses energy to it through viscosity and when the speed is too low the air detaches from the wing. So to avoid, or to say better retard, this you try to give more speed, and with that energy, to the air closest to the wing and you can do it by mixing the faster air farther from the wing with the slower on it, that's what the vorteces generated by the VG do. You could do it even by blowing compressed air through bleedholes on top of the wing but it's far more complex.
I'm sorry but I can't come up with anything just written to explain how different leading edges influences stall, I would need at least some graphs.
As an end note I find quite curious that you don't experience increased drag at least for the extended wingspan, I guess that it could be because it balances out with the reduction of induced drag.
Whoa....now that's a comment. So...in layman's terms these mods make the plane "more gooder".
Interesting at the end when you said it didn't affect the speed or fuel flow.
The whole time I've watched this addition, that's what I was thinking in the back of my mind- figured the extra lift would increase drag in cruise and make it slower/burn more? If not-that's a great modification!
I did the same to our 185. Surprisingly, the Owner’s Manual states 75mph for short field landings (@ GW). With a useful load of 1700#, the airplane can be flown slower than that when empty. Now with the Sportsman cuff, the WingX and Micro Aero VG’s when light, I fly 50mph (43 knots) on short final. Pretty dramatic difference.
Besides the 175# GW increase with the WingX, the VG’s on the tail provide a 12 knot directional control advantage in the 185 (according to Micro Aero) for an added advantage during XW landings and a considerable advantage in pitch control sensitivity when slow.
I get why you did all this. Once you adapt to the new flight characteristics you will be impressed even more. Now you need a 180hp STC with a prop to match. It’s an addiction.
Hi Glenn, I don't know much about aircraft and or design, but I was able to follow along with your explanation, so I wouldn't' worry too much about how you are describing it.
I look forward to seeing the work done in your following instalments.
Great explanation! Awesome that it's working out for you.
Makes a ton of sense and adds some details I didn’t understand in the last video. Thank you very much for taking the time to share these explanations. I really appreciate it.
Fascinating vid, Glen! Thanks so much! Always look forward to The Hangar
The Stoll Kit gives you slower speeds at landing( while still maintaining control). Great decision. Love your videos.
That’s really interesting…thanks for the explanation. Awesome job on your restoration/upgrade project!
I can't wait for the trip I'm happy your taking us along with you
So glad you did this explainer episode! I'm so much more excited for the next episodes now!
🚧🚧😇👌👍 Outstanding Sir 🍻🍻🚧🚧
Glen you did a great job explaining what the upgrades do! On that note those upgrades are awesome and a completer game changer...
I love this channel. Thanks for taking us along, Glenn. Your explanations made perfect sense to me
😀RELAX Glen! it makes sense!
I have a fair non pilot, engineering understanding of the mechanics of lift and STOL, and you managed to teach me some things, where I had understood the concept, but not directly known the Why/how.. All was clear and made sense, well done!👍👍 As always, looking forward tot he next episode!
Thanks for taking the time to explain. It must have been tough to keep from throwing "laminar flow" in there at least once. :) Congrats on all the work; she's a beauty. Looking forward to your travels. Hope you make it to YYC some day.
excellent job explaining what you have done.
This video was very helpful! As I'm not involved in aeronautics in any way, that wing change was very confusing.
And I'm glad you're happy with it! 😊
Thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense.
Glenn, this is your funnest video yet. Made me laugh watching you struggle. You did fine and sometimes less is more. A white board could have helped in showing/drawing how the angle of attack results in the de-lamination of the airflow over the top of the wing. No biggie though, you got the point across. ;-) I love what you are doing to the old bird. She looks great and I have been fallowing along since you started the videos.
JUST to add a wee bit to 'Lift.' Wings fly by SUCTION. The aircraft is pulled UP... by the amount of suction.
Daniel Bernoulli's principle states, that an increase in the speed of a fluid occurs simultaneously with a decrease in static pressure or a decrease in the fluid's potential energy. Simply, pressure decreases when the flow speed increases.
Since Nature ABHORS a vacuum, it will 'fill the void' with anything available, such as a wing.
Airplanes don't get LIFTED off the ground and into the air.... they get sucked up. =)
I'm glad your back. From a layman's point of view, your explanations were very good. I am not a pilot but I have always found the technology to be very interesting. You would never want me as your pilot because I don't have the patience for the landing. I know this from flying my PC, Microsoft flight simulator about 25 years ago. I am better of playing with my sports cars. I hope to see you in Texas.
Some bit of kit, well done on the refurbishment
From what I remember from my training the Vortex Generators re-energise the Boundry Layer. The Boundry Layer is the air that actually touches the aircraft.
Can’t wait to you two flying high.
Very nice, and the explanation was reasonable. I guess the next thing will be reinforcing the front landing gear and putting on tundra tires. Then you can go back-country camping.
Looks like a fun project.
I'm not a pilot however I've been an aviation nut since I was a kid. I was intrigued by the space race as a child. When I was 8..10 years old I wanted to grow up to be the next Igor Sikorsky. I do get the terms and concepts and its fascinating. Amazingly what's jaw dropping is the VG fins and how such a seemingly insignificant change actually is so beneficial. Has any significant weight been added or is it negligible as the changes provide better lift and improve aerodynamics? A beautiful aircraft. Thanks again
Oh man the plane looks awesome!
Not an aviator here... but you did a fine job of explaining... cool mods... but where did you put the cooktop and kitchen sink... Mile High Cooking with Glen would be the ultimate cooking experience... Pasta over Naples... Quiche over Paris... Enchiladas over Mexico City...😁... WE might need a larger plane, like a DC3...
I have always wondered about using for testing. Gm fuel tank pressure sensors in various access hatches perhaps with a data recorder or 10 segment LEDs to indicate how much reduction. In pressure above the wing to look for stall issues . This could use 1/8inch nylon or bigger tube threaded thru the wing to allow multiple sensors to monitor pressures the tiny holes in replacement access panels..
It's amazing how much longer that wingspan looks, adding three feet is not insubstantial, but it looks like it could be 5 or 6 feet longer.
Did you fly it between mods? It would be interesting to see which mods improved what characteristic. I had a 78 172 that already had a Cessna cuff. The VG's changed it dramatically. Solid controls to the extent that on the first flight I came right back because I thought there was something stuck in the rudder; it was so solid in slow flight. Rock that baby on its tail on take off and you're flying! Fun project! You'll need to learn to fly it slower on landing or it will float forever :)
I'm keeping your subscription with my eyes on your upgrades, as there will come a time when I'll probably be looking to getting a plane, and at my age, 172's are probably one of the two, maybe three, for which I could get insurance. One of my first additions would be AmSafe air bags. However, with a stol wing and vg's, a whole frame parachute might not offer that much more protection in the event of an engine failure. 🙂
Stay safe, don't get too used to the slow speed, keep some as an insurance policy.
Looking good.
Talk about the boundary layer, back to basics. VG energize the boundary layer to delay separation, simplest explanation.
NIce explanation for the layman on what you've done, and it looks really nice. So, you've added three feet of wingspan. You say that it helps on take off, which no doubt it does. You also said that you can land at the old speed of around 60mph. I guess I'm curious, can you actually get the airplane on the ground with the cuffs, the VGs and the extensions at 60mph, or does it float down the runway? I would be thinking that unless you can in with a really flat attitude, that you're going to be hanging in the air at 60mph trying to get that airplane down.
Gary C. You are correct. The stall speed is reduced, so the approach speed must be reduced accordingly. Normally, approach speed is 1.3x the stall speed based on your actual weight. The approach speed in the book is based on the aircraft gross weight, so if you are lighter the approach speed should be based on your actual weight. Unfortunately, many pilots fly too fast, with resulting float, higher touchdown speeds and long landings.
On your tail skid. Did you see the wing tip skids mike patey put on Draco to stop the wings from digging in if you ground loop it. Not that it stopped him from breaking everybodies heart and ground looping draco in a huge crosswind
Nice B-roll at end.
Bummer, no "Hi Jules!", 3/4 way thru.
I'm a formula junkie.
Its definitely cool to be able to take off from short strips. Ive flown in a 500kg Evektor-EV97 and it was a lot of fun. I believe wings are designed to actually promote stalling of the wing at the leading edge for stability to decrease the risk of a spin. The leading edge and tip extensions will probably affect things like best glide speed and climb speeds Vx and Vy, not sure how you'd determine these or do the manufacturers of the extensions provide figures?
I bet the longer wing reduces induced drag and helps offset the extra drag of the vg's and leading edge.
Great explanation,,,,what is the tail skid made of?
I had the same question. My guess is Delrin with UV stabalizers.
Yep - Derlin
Okay Glen, now you gotta get yer butt in the cockpit, get it in the air and give us a pilot POV play by play on how you feel it's handling.
Looking forward to that stuff pal. ;p)
I think I remember the strengthening bars added to the wing are stainless steel. Is there a concern of electrolysis with the aluminum? Question is a little late - just found this channel. Thanks for the content!
You explained it fine. OshKosh is going on now, maybe next year you can go.
I wonder if the vortex generators cause airflow over the wing to slow down by spinning the air stream which stretches the air which lowers the pressure giving to additional lift.
Hi Glen luv your Glens Hanger .Have u thought about fiting a carbon monoxide detector on the plane
Great video, question. Is stability affected at all by adding wing extensions?, prop to tail remain the same so I wonder if you felt a change on the extra mass of the wings but same mass at tail.
The plane is way more stable all round with the extensions - though the 172 is really stable to begin with.
Interesting fact. Your B model had a 33ft wingspan. The later Skyhawks had 36ft wingspans so you now have the same wing length as the later cessna’s. I fly an M model and it really does not stall in the normal sense. It just losses about 500 ft/ min straight ahead. At stall speed no flaps.
Are you sure? The wingspan on our 172B was 36’ to start with and now we have 39’6”
No. Same wingspan
Glen's Hangar - You'll Believe A Man Can Fly!
I love these videos. I have always wanted to learn to fly but sadly, that ship has sailed. PS...you need to take time to get a haircut before it reaches Covid length.
Thanks for explaining what a STALL is! never heard of that in my entire life! or PPL training....
Now you need hours. Hours and hours!
I always wanted to take a c150 fuse and build long wings for a motor glider
Do you and Julie have any plans of where you guys wanna travel?
As you lower your stall speeds and lower your TO speeds are you not also reducing your margin for error if you fly close to those new lower speeds? If you stall at 65 without the Mods and now stall at 55 with the mods will you not still teach yourself that you stall at 65 still so that you don't use up your safety margin n you just gained ? Great update, thanks.
I'm starting the suspect the VGs are needed with Wing-X. Too bad all the changes were done all at once, would have been really useful to understand Wing-X performance & downsides on its own. Considering it for my Cessna 170. However, whereas some x-wind performance loss is acceptable to a 172, I would say I can't risk loosing any x-wind performance on my 170. The safety benefits of faster climb and engine out glide ratio would be offset by the chance of groundlooping.
So Glen what is the turn over for new skid plates?
I would imagine that anything less than half the original thickness should be replaced true?
They recommend replacement at around the halfway mark - but the material it’s made from (Derlin) is hard to wear through.
nice
Do you get a max weight bonus with the new wingtip length? Or is that canceled out by the addition of the wingtips and new bracing?
I get a 50 pound increase, but if I had the larger engine the increase would be a few hundred.
@@GlensHangar I see an upgrade path in your future. :)
@@GlensHangar How much did the empty weight increase with the cuffs and wing extensions?
@@dalleth Boaters call that "two-foot-itis". ;)
Considering that you are trying to explain to some of the non pilots out there, perhaps this video should have started with an explanation of 'stall' which would require an explanation of how a wing produces lift.
Glen, I've been teaching flying for a long time now and you did a really good job explaining the mods and what they do in an accessible way. Well done!
I have one question though: were the wing mods just for safety, or were they for STOL performance, or both? In your explanation, they seemed to be more safety-based. Just curious.
Mostly with an eye to STOL performance so we can fly to smaller grass / gravel strips… and maybe a logging road or two. But for most of our flying around Southern Ontario it was about a safety margin and a bonus 50 pounds of gross weight.
The mods add weight. What was the effect on useful load? Did max gross increase to compensate for the weight of the mods?
I ended up with 50 pounds extra useful load. It would have been more if I had the bigger engine.
the short answer to why is!!! because you have the money!!! :) if you keep the old 0-300 climbing will still the same climbing.... with 40 flap you can land really slow... i have a 1958...
It now climbs just over 1500 fpm from the airfield here (700ASL) at 25ºC. 40ºFlap lands at 32 mph.
So. The skidplate is a disposable thing, or more like a brake pad (wear and tear)? 🤔
The skid plate will wear out over time and be replaced - I won’t always take off in such a nose up attitude, most of the time I’ll just use a regular takeoff roll. But having it there is a great option for those shorter strips.
You mentioned a lot of things that are improved by your modifications, but I don't think you mentioned increased load capacity. Is that one of the benefits?
Yes - we go it a 50 pound gross weight increase. If I had the larger engine the increase would have been 100s of pounds.
Interesting that you aren't seeing an impact in fuel use or cruising speed. I had assumed that improving STOL performance (such as some added weight, both increased "parasite" and "induced" drag) would trade off cruise performance.
It just doesn’t have a high enough top speed to see any of the downsides.
What did this do to your useful load, Glen?
Increased it by 50 pounds
Did you have someone fly with you to help you through the new upgrades or did you just figured it out yourself?
Flew the first couple times with Chris (he is also a commercial pilot and flight instructor), then I flew with a 30 year veteran of Cathay Pacific who is also a flight instructor.
What did the STOL kit do to the weight and balance?
The Sportsman STOL leading edge was negligable - the WingX STOL wing extensions gave us a gross weight increase / useful load increase of 50 pounds. If I had the larger Hp engines the load increase would have been larger.
What happend to your cruising speed after the mod?
He mentions in the video that it's unchanged.
What did you end up spending on this upgrade?
Just over $40k Canadian.
Speed increase?
Speed stayed pretty much the same.
The only downside that I see is an increase in the empty weight with a corresponding decrease in useful load. Probably not a great deal.
I ended up with 50 pounds extra useful load. It would have been more if I had the bigger engine.
@@GlensHangar Wow! How did that come about? I expected the opposite. Did you remove some original equipment?
We strengthened a few spots along the spar ( you’ll see in next vid) and this allowed an increase in gross weight. If I had the larger engine the increase would have been larger.
🤓👌👍✌️🖖😎
Wow, rotate at 40mph? ie 35 knots??? That's crazy slow.
Yes - but....
.
She flies like a brand new one. Now all you need to do is change that 1960's interior color scheme. 🤢