I have been racing for 30 years and using power meters for around 10 years, the ramp test significantly over estimates my FTP, by around 20 watts. It depends what type of rider you are, some can hold a high wattage at the end of a ramp test but not a steadier wattage for a longer period.
your training zones cant surely be that far off? so are you saying after the test your threshold & sweet spot efforts feel too hard? ive always found the ramp test to sit about spot on to set me up for my next training block
Same. I also believe mine is off by about 20 watts as well. I was working far too hard and getting burnt out as a result. I love TR, but I also think there are thousands of riders out there with inflated FTPs who are getting burnt out by training at inflated numbers.
I’d say the ramp test will usually over estimate power for riders with very powerful legs, as a whole though it’s a great way for most to get a FTP to get started.
My ramp was very close to my 20min power test, like 3 Watts or so out, only difference being the recovery time and fear for the 20min test, team ramp all day long.
That’s pretty close. Yes I couldn’t agree more. After doing a ramp test I can train again later that day or at least feel fresh the next day. Doing a 20min ftp test is the complete opposite and is something I don’t look forward to. It does feel like more of an accomplishment completing the 20min test though. Team ramp
@@apexperformance9313 I think because you knew what power you had to ramp up to (420w) is significant on your result..You should have done the ramp test 1st, then the FTP..
Nice video. For me, the main benefit of a ramp test is its repeatability and not having to worry about pacing…at all! But, it can easily overestimate power. The way I used ramps in the past was to increase my FTP from 20min tests based on how my ramp FTP was progressing. So, for example, if my FTP from 20min was 250w, then during a training block I perform a ramp before another build and my RAMP FTP goes from 275-280w, I had the +5w to my supposed 20min FTP (255w). There is absolutely ZERO science backing that strategy (lol), but in my mind it was a way to make better use of the ramp test and to avoid having to do a 20min test often while also still testing my progression during training. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm training to power for the better part of a year now. In the beginning I did the ramp test because I wouldn't have to know anything beforehand and it's really simple. I did have the problem though that the sessions that were based off that calculated FTP value got increasingly harder to a point where it didn't feel natural anymore. I then switched over to the 20 minutes test and that one gave me about 15%lower values. But the sessions felt easier to do through of course. So for me it's the 20 minutes test in the future.
Unless I’ve misunderstood, the main issue with the FTP test is that you’ve essentially got to know what your FTP is before you do the test or you’ll blow up horribly / underachieve what you can really do. The ramp test doesn’t require this pre-knowledge so the outcome is about what strength you have on the day rather than whether you have gauged your effort correctly or not. Ramp test for me
Not if you focus on heart rate. I knew which heart rate I can sustain on large climbs (often larger then 20min) and went from there. 1st half a little bit reserved second pushing it a little. Ramp test is very in acurate for larger riders that have no problem producing 500W for a min but cant sustain it for longer duration. Just my noobie opinion I just did my first FTP test ;)
It is true that it takes a few tries and some knowledge of your capabilities to perfectly pace an FTP test. Of course, I’m a purist and only believe in steady state 60 minute time trials.
It definitely helps to have done a previous FTP test (or several) to know how to achieve your best/true FTP. My best ever FTP was achieved because I went in with a target of holding over 300W average (Because my previous one left me feeling I could have done more than 290W average). I went off at 320W knowing it would drop off over the final stretch. I got over the line with 302W (287 FTP) but I was in a terrible state. Forget warming down, I just about fell off the bike and lay on the floor of the studio for 10 minutes. I figure that means it was a genuine max effort. I certainly wasn't talking to camera. Also it was in a Wattbike class of 10 people, doing the same thing, with an instructor shouting at us. I never got close to those numbers at home, on my own. Peer pressure helps. FTP isn't the worst 20 minutes of your life .... but it should contain the worst 7 minutes of your life. For me it's 12 minutes in, through to 19 minutes. Once I get to 19 minutes then I know I'll make it over the line and I can hang on in there. There's always a little bit more toothpaste in the tube.
@@leehargreaves7473 I’ve never done the “all-out” effort myself but I have good repeatability at 405 at “sweet spot” so I just round up from there a little. Lol Especially because I do the full 60 minutes and maintain the 405 from start to finish.
Ramps are good when you have no idea. When i ramp i whack it into erg and i block all the data fields so to remove influence. Go til cadence goes to poo (falls below 80 for me, YMMV). -U10
It’s a good test to do, to see if there’s a big difference between estimated 20min ftp and ramp ftp. It is the hardest out of the two but it’s a nice challenge. Team ramp all the way 💪
Great production quality man, awesome video. I personally do the 20-minute max effort as I end up hitting it a lot during my races. I've also done the ramp test many times but in my experience it tends to overestimate it.
@@apexperformance9313I haven't used the ramp test in forever but usually, I would guess 10/15 watts. I remember doing one 2-3 months ago that estimated it at 295 watts. I now have a 300w FTP based on a 316w 20 minute but I definitely wasn't there 2-3 months ago. I think my lower end power from like 5 minutes and below is less variable as compared to my 20 minute+ power so I think I just do better on a 1-minute average as compared to a 20 minute thus the overestimation.
Looking for motivation. I am doing my 20-minute FTP test shortly. I vomited after my last one and haven't done one in a long time. I've had a lot of time off riding (my husband passed from cancer complications), and I am expecting my FTP to be greatly reduced from where I was before.
Another factor: injury. I'm not a cyclist really, always been a commuter. Coming after several surgeries (knees, hips, ankles and feet) and just after 6 weeks off a bike due to IT band syndrome acting up again, I got on a trainer for the first time (because of lockdowns in Shanghai). Never had a bike computer, nor heard of FTP. Friend suggested it to set workouts. I did 20 minute test, yet can't go to far up in watts without pain in the knee. I still wanna do a ramp test, but feel like it's the power that aggravates my IT band. Those with joint issues may prefer a longer test that is testing fitness a bit more than the joint itself. --then again, I'm not a cyclist really!
Well to be fair, if you have joint issues maybe it's not the best idea to do all out efforts. Resting to easy/moderate intensities until healed might be a better option.
I use ramp test and then do Alpe or a 20 minute segment to verify average power and if its within 5 watts i'm happy. I'll do this throughout the year to see if my base fitness is Improving or declining then test again before doing a plan
I have the same program but do the 60 minute test after the 20 minute test to verify the result of the 20 minute test that verified the result of the ramp test.
The fact you could talk, during and after, your 20min FTP test tells me that you have another 5-10 Watts in there. My best ever 20min FTP test left me curled up on the studio floor for 10 minutes. That's why the ramp test is better for most people. It's just too difficult to pace a 20 minute effort to the absolute max, and it's not something you can simply retake regularly, whereas the ramp test is guaranteed to find your max.
Zwift tracks your best 5 sec, 1, 5, 10, 20 minute power numbers. My best 1 minute, 329 watts. My best 20 minute, 220 watts. Using the 0.7 and 0.95 coefficients, I get 230 watts vs 209 watts (21 watt difference). Those numbers are from racing where I'm putting down the best I can do for those time intervals. Which lines up with other riders notice the Ramp Test inflates their FTP. Does Zwift prioritize the Ramp Test over the FTP Test when determining Race Class Divisions? A C rider could be classed as a B when their aerobic power is no match.
During the ramp test, you keep the same gear and try keeping a steady cadence (rpm) as the difficulty slowly ramps up, the test ends when you cant pedal anymore
Wahoo SYSTM "4DP" test or even the "Half Monty" ramp test are better than cartoontopia ones (Zwift). Half Monty starts your ramp at 50% of MAP- so my last one based on existing FTP of 254w and MAP of 312w started my ramp at 156w- your ramp starting at 100w is way too low for your fitness, probably 4-6 "wasted" minutes getting you to an appropriate start point like 200/220w....Half monty also does a 20 minute control section after the ramp to better calculate your CHTR keeping you to hold a defined range of heart rate (ie my last one was 158-164bpm for 20 mins)
my ftp outside on the bike is 242 atm. yesterday I did the ramp test on zwift. result was 284, now I am confused. I think I need te calibrate my zwift trainer! 🥴
I was interested by Ramp VS 20 minute , and not by your capacity to do the exercise. il ll be better of my opinion to discuss the two type values and not to prove you are able to do it
scrap that, the only test is a Lab test, where gas taken and in addition (optional) levels of lactate. Only that test gives precise zones and good to do this test once or twice a year to learn own body and see your off season drops
My lab test was terrible; the mask leaked and I had to stop the test because they were trying to adjust it during the test. Also I had to insist on a 10' warmup
There's no way on earth i could maintain my ramp test FTP during one hour of real riding. Same with the 20 minutes. There's only ONE ftp test and for it to be accurate you should do it on a control environment, if possible on a flat track with no wind, during one hour.
Don't forget one thing: testing is also training. If you do a 20 min ftp test you are basically doing a VO2 max session with one big 20 min interval.
That's true and mirrors my opinion.
I have been racing for 30 years and using power meters for around 10 years, the ramp test significantly over estimates my FTP, by around 20 watts. It depends what type of rider you are, some can hold a high wattage at the end of a ramp test but not a steadier wattage for a longer period.
your training zones cant surely be that far off? so are you saying after the test your threshold & sweet spot efforts feel too hard? ive always found the ramp test to sit about spot on to set me up for my next training block
Same. I also believe mine is off by about 20 watts as well. I was working far too hard and getting burnt out as a result. I love TR, but I also think there are thousands of riders out there with inflated FTPs who are getting burnt out by training at inflated numbers.
Totally agree ramp test over estimates. Generally due to it being more bias on anaerobic effort
I’d say the ramp test will usually over estimate power for riders with very powerful legs, as a whole though it’s a great way for most to get a FTP to get started.
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Just one hour test in my opinion , my result on different tests .
Ramp test 368 Wats
20 min test 362 Wats
1 hour test 342 Wats
that pretty bloody good
My ramp was very close to my 20min power test, like 3 Watts or so out, only difference being the recovery time and fear for the 20min test, team ramp all day long.
That’s pretty close. Yes I couldn’t agree more. After doing a ramp test I can train again later that day or at least feel fresh the next day. Doing a 20min ftp test is the complete opposite and is something I don’t look forward to. It does feel like more of an accomplishment completing the 20min test though. Team ramp
@@apexperformance9313 I think because you knew what power you had to ramp up to (420w) is significant on your result..You should have done the ramp test 1st, then the FTP..
Nice video. For me, the main benefit of a ramp test is its repeatability and not having to worry about pacing…at all! But, it can easily overestimate power.
The way I used ramps in the past was to increase my FTP from 20min tests based on how my ramp FTP was progressing. So, for example, if my FTP from 20min was 250w, then during a training block I perform a ramp before another build and my RAMP FTP goes from 275-280w, I had the +5w to my supposed 20min FTP (255w). There is absolutely ZERO science backing that strategy (lol), but in my mind it was a way to make better use of the ramp test and to avoid having to do a 20min test often while also still testing my progression during training. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm training to power for the better part of a year now. In the beginning I did the ramp test because I wouldn't have to know anything beforehand and it's really simple. I did have the problem though that the sessions that were based off that calculated FTP value got increasingly harder to a point where it didn't feel natural anymore.
I then switched over to the 20 minutes test and that one gave me about 15%lower values. But the sessions felt easier to do through of course. So for me it's the 20 minutes test in the future.
Unless I’ve misunderstood, the main issue with the FTP test is that you’ve essentially got to know what your FTP is before you do the test or you’ll blow up horribly / underachieve what you can really do. The ramp test doesn’t require this pre-knowledge so the outcome is about what strength you have on the day rather than whether you have gauged your effort correctly or not. Ramp test for me
Not if you focus on heart rate. I knew which heart rate I can sustain on large climbs (often larger then 20min) and went from there. 1st half a little bit reserved second pushing it a little. Ramp test is very in acurate for larger riders that have no problem producing 500W for a min but cant sustain it for longer duration.
Just my noobie opinion I just did my first FTP test ;)
It is true that it takes a few tries and some knowledge of your capabilities to perfectly pace an FTP test.
Of course, I’m a purist and only believe in steady state 60 minute time trials.
It definitely helps to have done a previous FTP test (or several) to know how to achieve your best/true FTP. My best ever FTP was achieved because I went in with a target of holding over 300W average (Because my previous one left me feeling I could have done more than 290W average). I went off at 320W knowing it would drop off over the final stretch. I got over the line with 302W (287 FTP) but I was in a terrible state. Forget warming down, I just about fell off the bike and lay on the floor of the studio for 10 minutes. I figure that means it was a genuine max effort. I certainly wasn't talking to camera.
Also it was in a Wattbike class of 10 people, doing the same thing, with an instructor shouting at us. I never got close to those numbers at home, on my own. Peer pressure helps.
FTP isn't the worst 20 minutes of your life .... but it should contain the worst 7 minutes of your life. For me it's 12 minutes in, through to 19 minutes. Once I get to 19 minutes then I know I'll make it over the line and I can hang on in there. There's always a little bit more toothpaste in the tube.
@@leehargreaves7473 I’ve never done the “all-out” effort myself but I have good repeatability at 405 at “sweet spot” so I just round up from there a little. Lol
Especially because I do the full 60 minutes and maintain the 405 from start to finish.
@@neoneherefrom5836 I'll look out for you on TV.
Good vid mate. I prefer the Ramp test purely because it doesn’t zap you of energy as much!
Thanks Lewis, yes I’m the same. I find the recovery time after the ramp test is a lot quicker.
Ramps are good when you have no idea. When i ramp i whack it into erg and i block all the data fields so to remove influence. Go til cadence goes to poo (falls below 80 for me, YMMV). -U10
I've never done the 20min effort but will have to give that a go. I suspect it will confirm what I suspect... That I'm team ramp.
It’s a good test to do, to see if there’s a big difference between estimated 20min ftp and ramp ftp. It is the hardest out of the two but it’s a nice challenge. Team ramp all the way 💪
Great production quality man, awesome video. I personally do the 20-minute max effort as I end up hitting it a lot during my races. I've also done the ramp test many times but in my experience it tends to overestimate it.
Thanks Noah, that’s interesting. Does the ramp test overestimate your ftp by much?
@@apexperformance9313I haven't used the ramp test in forever but usually, I would guess 10/15 watts. I remember doing one 2-3 months ago that estimated it at 295 watts. I now have a 300w FTP based on a 316w 20 minute but I definitely wasn't there 2-3 months ago.
I think my lower end power from like 5 minutes and below is less variable as compared to my 20 minute+ power so I think I just do better on a 1-minute average as compared to a 20 minute thus the overestimation.
Looking for motivation. I am doing my 20-minute FTP test shortly. I vomited after my last one and haven't done one in a long time. I've had a lot of time off riding (my husband passed from cancer complications), and I am expecting my FTP to be greatly reduced from where I was before.
Another factor: injury. I'm not a cyclist really, always been a commuter. Coming after several surgeries (knees, hips, ankles and feet) and just after 6 weeks off a bike due to IT band syndrome acting up again, I got on a trainer for the first time (because of lockdowns in Shanghai). Never had a bike computer, nor heard of FTP. Friend suggested it to set workouts. I did 20 minute test, yet can't go to far up in watts without pain in the knee. I still wanna do a ramp test, but feel like it's the power that aggravates my IT band. Those with joint issues may prefer a longer test that is testing fitness a bit more than the joint itself. --then again, I'm not a cyclist really!
Well to be fair, if you have joint issues maybe it's not the best idea to do all out efforts.
Resting to easy/moderate intensities until healed might be a better option.
I use ramp test and then do Alpe or a 20 minute segment to verify average power and if its within 5 watts i'm happy. I'll do this throughout the year to see if my base fitness is Improving or declining then test again before doing a plan
I have the same program but do the 60 minute test after the 20 minute test to verify the result of the 20 minute test that verified the result of the ramp test.
@@MrPeperoni79 I hope you sprinkle in some recovery time somewhere ;-D
@@zbeekerm Yes, I sprinkle in some Sweet Spot to recover ;).
Great video. Very helpful.
The fact you could talk, during and after, your 20min FTP test tells me that you have another 5-10 Watts in there.
My best ever 20min FTP test left me curled up on the studio floor for 10 minutes.
That's why the ramp test is better for most people. It's just too difficult to pace a 20 minute effort to the absolute max, and it's not something you can simply retake regularly, whereas the ramp test is guaranteed to find your max.
Why u not ramp in ERG mode?
the trainer must support erg mode
Zwift tracks your best 5 sec, 1, 5, 10, 20 minute power numbers. My best 1 minute, 329 watts. My best 20 minute, 220 watts. Using the 0.7 and 0.95 coefficients, I get 230 watts vs 209 watts (21 watt difference). Those numbers are from racing where I'm putting down the best I can do for those time intervals. Which lines up with other riders notice the Ramp Test inflates their FTP. Does Zwift prioritize the Ramp Test over the FTP Test when determining Race Class Divisions? A C rider could be classed as a B when their aerobic power is no match.
I prefer doing the ramp test but seem to get a higher ftp using the 20mn test. Does this suggest that I need to work on anaerobic strength more?
Do you shift while
Doing the ramp test?? Thanks!
During the ramp test, you keep the same gear and try keeping a steady cadence (rpm) as the difficulty slowly ramps up, the test ends when you cant pedal anymore
@@landonenns In order to increase wattage every minute you need to add resistance by shifting to a harder gear.
Thanks 😊
Can you get out of the saddle for the 20 minute test?
no
NO
Wahoo SYSTM "4DP" test or even the "Half Monty" ramp test are better than cartoontopia ones (Zwift). Half Monty starts your ramp at 50% of MAP- so my last one based on existing FTP of 254w and MAP of 312w started my ramp at 156w- your ramp starting at 100w is way too low for your fitness, probably 4-6 "wasted" minutes getting you to an appropriate start point like 200/220w....Half monty also does a 20 minute control section after the ramp to better calculate your CHTR keeping you to hold a defined range of heart rate (ie my last one was 158-164bpm for 20 mins)
my ftp outside on the bike is 242 atm. yesterday I did the ramp test on zwift. result was 284, now I am confused. I think I need te calibrate my zwift trainer! 🥴
I think it is pretty typical to get a higher FTP on a trainer indoors. You don't have to deal with wind resistance or rough road surfaces etc...
60 minutes i will be doing it soon.. its going to be hurting but worth it
The actual 1 hour test
Great video thanks 👍
2 x 8 min favorite
thx
Cadence 65-70 is too low. These tests should be done with a constant cadence of 90-95 rpm. It acidifies the muscles much later
80 rpms or higher is ok but not below that. You don't need to go at a cadence of 90
ramp every time!!!!
I was interested by Ramp VS 20 minute , and not by your capacity to do the exercise. il ll be better of my opinion to discuss the two type values and not to prove you are able to do it
Its his video, let the man do what he wants
Open the window man!
Same background music as #zeducation. Subconsciously I’m waiting for some sick memes.
4dp Rulez
No God damn way I am doing both. Lol!
scrap that, the only test is a Lab test, where gas taken and in addition (optional) levels of lactate. Only that test gives precise zones and good to do this test once or twice a year to learn own body and see your off season drops
My lab test was terrible; the mask leaked and I had to stop the test because they were trying to adjust it during the test. Also I had to insist on a 10' warmup
1hr test is best, why do 2 x 20min tests lol
There's no way on earth i could maintain my ramp test FTP during one hour of real riding. Same with the 20 minutes.
There's only ONE ftp test and for it to be accurate you should do it on a control environment, if possible on a flat track with no wind, during one hour.
If you take FTP to mean lactate threshold, then that duration can be anywhere between 30-70min depending on the individual.