Before I built A pillars for my mids (dash is impossible in my car), i created makeshift ‘pods’ for them and listened + measured them in various orientations over the course of a week. I was genuinely amazed at how small differences in aiming not only effected frequency response, but also stage width and stage placement. In that scenario, the more off-axis the drivers were, the broader the stage. As they rotated towards on-axis, the stage narrowed but placement within it became more focussed.
half wavelength distance t the glass on the flat mount i would estimate at 10 cm which works out to half the wavelength at 1.7khz. brilliant work showing this!!
Crazy how cm can change the response. Thank you. Just put in a D4S system in my Tundra (DSP/JP95/their 3 way Components in front (passive crossed)/their 2 way Components in the rear (passive crossed)/ & 2-10" Skar subs) with a Pioneer HU. Super happy with how she turned out. Also sound deadened the cab. Really, the DSP and your turning vids have made all the difference in the world. I have my mids at an angle in the dash corners (specifically to get them to fit), but am now considering making them even more directional. I really cant believe how much the DSP help, especially using the auto eq tab in the REW software. I would have never known to make the recommendation it suggested. I will eventually get a better measuring mic (used my RODE USB PC mic) and remeasure to see if I can make her sound just a little better. Even so, she sound so good. Bro your channel has helped me tremendously and I cant thank you enough. Love your work. God bless.
I've often wondered about running HLCDs straight up the glass as an extension of the horns and how well that would work or if it would actually end up sounding terrible. I always love your ideas and backing them up with real analytics
Great test! You together with Peter are my favorite youtube channels. Always great content, and much to learn. I was planning my mids in pods on A pillar but saw many who have great (or better!) results with in the dash (like Eddy). As a home audiophile I want my stage further away so hopefully I can have them on/in dash too, and a bit tilted.
How did it work out? What did you end up with being the best? Have you also considered pods on the A pillar? In my car I think the in the dash would be better for distance as its a bit further (which I like) but I have little space there... I might do it anyway because SQ is my goal. I am curious. Thanks in advance.
From a newbie's perspective, it would be great to have another back-to-basics video that discusses speaker locations in general. I have watched a few videos like this one and learned something, but it's hard to learn that way. The information is split across multiple videos, and it's difficult to find a specific one when you forget something.
Hahha. So glad that someone tested this. I knew it would be better. I've already made my 3d print model angled like that. Also am planning to rotate in horizontal plan so will aim to the rear mirror. I had a feeling about this when i've seen that F150 that Nick Apicella build with angled Accutons in the corner of the dash. And we know Nick is proofed with his installs. Congrats for your work
It seems better in frequency response, but in sound quality maybe not. You'd probably want to test and verify you don't hear any strangeness with reflections.
Hi, nice and interesting video to see. You’re amazing in explaining the all technical data’s. Want to know what one thing, whether we can do IB on any kind of mid bass drives on kicks by inverting the drivers?
@@sainath8710The vast majority of automotive midbass drivers are designed for infinite baffle since they typically mount in doors, rear decks or other body cavities. I think it would be rare to find a midbass specifically designed to be used in a small sealed enclosure. I know it doesn't answer your question, but maybe gives insight. 👍
It has less to do with the dash and more to the fact that the listener is on one side of the car. Differences made by the dash would be visible if measured from the center of the car.
I faced the same issue with mids firing in the windshield, I had much better result using "dome" mids instead of cone, the dips were much less prominent. BTW, did you do something to compensate the fact the two drivers are not in axis? Is this a good use of the phase degree control in the DSP?
Phase adjustment affects the interaction between two drivers in different locations. If won't do anything for a single driver response. As the reflection will have the same phase shift as the original sound.
Firstly, there is no best. What i think sounds best, you may not. If the "best" cost $20K, would you still want the best? Lol There are a lot of quality drivers on the market. Any of them can sound amazing or bad depending on the installation and tuning. You could even make an average speaker sound really good with proper install and tuning. I would focus on that part first, then buy a driver that you can afford. See what the sound off competitors use. I'm sure you could make a long list of very good candidates.
@@JasonWW2000you missed the point of his question. He ask him for HIS opinion which was best out of the ones he has heard personally. He did not what is the best midrange period.
Nice test.
Funny, when I posted this on DIYMA people thought it was useless and dumb, but none of them ever did an A-B test like this.
Before I built A pillars for my mids (dash is impossible in my car), i created makeshift ‘pods’ for them and listened + measured them in various orientations over the course of a week.
I was genuinely amazed at how small differences in aiming not only effected frequency response, but also stage width and stage placement.
In that scenario, the more off-axis the drivers were, the broader the stage. As they rotated towards on-axis, the stage narrowed but placement within it became more focussed.
“I do have a spare dash”
Words of a true car audio tragic 😅
same 😅
Very nice to see the difference which makes it a lot easier to determine if a rebuild is actually worth the effort.
half wavelength distance t the glass on the flat mount i would estimate at 10 cm which works out to half the wavelength at 1.7khz. brilliant work showing this!!
Crazy how cm can change the response. Thank you. Just put in a D4S system in my Tundra (DSP/JP95/their 3 way Components in front (passive crossed)/their 2 way Components in the rear (passive crossed)/ & 2-10" Skar subs) with a Pioneer HU. Super happy with how she turned out. Also sound deadened the cab. Really, the DSP and your turning vids have made all the difference in the world. I have my mids at an angle in the dash corners (specifically to get them to fit), but am now considering making them even more directional. I really cant believe how much the DSP help, especially using the auto eq tab in the REW software. I would have never known to make the recommendation it suggested. I will eventually get a better measuring mic (used my RODE USB PC mic) and remeasure to see if I can make her sound just a little better. Even so, she sound so good. Bro your channel has helped me tremendously and I cant thank you enough. Love your work. God bless.
I've often wondered about running HLCDs straight up the glass as an extension of the horns and how well that would work or if it would actually end up sounding terrible. I always love your ideas and backing them up with real analytics
That was done by Mark Eldridge in his 4 runner decades ago. It was a very winning competition vehicle. The work to do it was very extensive, though.
Great test! You together with Peter are my favorite youtube channels. Always great content, and much to learn.
I was planning my mids in pods on A pillar but saw many who have great (or better!) results with in the dash (like Eddy).
As a home audiophile I want my stage further away so hopefully I can have them on/in dash too, and a bit tilted.
I installed mids on my friends Volvo S70. I used laser with 3d printed adapter to aim the sound reflecting from the glass towards drivers head.
Is that what sounded best?
Great test - I'll be cutting my dash in my E39 soon to do this kind of installation. I will be aiming them now!
I would still suggest testing to confirm they sound better angled.
How did it work out? What did you end up with being the best?
Have you also considered pods on the A pillar?
In my car I think the in the dash would be better for distance as its a bit further (which I like) but I have little space there...
I might do it anyway because SQ is my goal.
I am curious. Thanks in advance.
From a newbie's perspective, it would be great to have another back-to-basics video that discusses speaker locations in general.
I have watched a few videos like this one and learned something, but it's hard to learn that way. The information is split across multiple videos, and it's difficult to find a specific one when you forget something.
That's a great idea, might make some videos about that👍
Very cool. Thank you for posting real data!
Dude I swear every time I see one of your vids I think of Dr. King Schultz 😅 great content ! I really enjoy these vids!
Hahha. So glad that someone tested this. I knew it would be better. I've already made my 3d print model angled like that. Also am planning to rotate in horizontal plan so will aim to the rear mirror. I had a feeling about this when i've seen that F150 that Nick Apicella build with angled Accutons in the corner of the dash. And we know Nick is proofed with his installs.
Congrats for your work
It seems better in frequency response, but in sound quality maybe not. You'd probably want to test and verify you don't hear any strangeness with reflections.
Cool experiment!
Hi, nice and interesting video to see. You’re amazing in explaining the all technical data’s.
Want to know what one thing, whether we can do IB on any kind of mid bass drives on kicks by inverting the drivers?
Yes, as long as they are suited for IB application.
@@RAW-CAt Hi, thanks for the reply. That’s what I want to know how to find whether the mid-bass drives are suitable for IB.
@@sainath8710 I might make a video on that🤔
@@RAW-CAt yes, you must make a video on this it will be helpful for us. 🙂
@@sainath8710The vast majority of automotive midbass drivers are designed for infinite baffle since they typically mount in doors, rear decks or other body cavities. I think it would be rare to find a midbass specifically designed to be used in a small sealed enclosure. I know it doesn't answer your question, but maybe gives insight. 👍
Left and right response always will be little bit different because the dash is not symmetrical.
It has less to do with the dash and more to the fact that the listener is on one side of the car. Differences made by the dash would be visible if measured from the center of the car.
Yes, that is of course also totally true.
Hi, nice video. The dip between 1k and 2k will be in every vehicle aiming the drivers in the same way?
That depends on the first reflective surface which is the windshield. So yeah, if the car has a windshield, the dip will be there.
@ okay, thanks for the response.
I faced the same issue with mids firing in the windshield, I had much better result using "dome" mids instead of cone, the dips were much less prominent. BTW, did you do something to compensate the fact the two drivers are not in axis? Is this a good use of the phase degree control in the DSP?
Phase adjustment affects the interaction between two drivers in different locations. If won't do anything for a single driver response. As the reflection will have the same phase shift as the original sound.
Did you a long listening test to get a good idea of how it sounds? Doing RTA responses are good, but it really comes down to how it sounds to you.
Quick listen didn't show amything bad really🤷🏻♂️ From my experience a better FR will give better overall results.
What is the best 4” midrange you have heard?
I've heard too little to have an opinion🙂
Firstly, there is no best. What i think sounds best, you may not. If the "best" cost $20K, would you still want the best? Lol
There are a lot of quality drivers on the market. Any of them can sound amazing or bad depending on the installation and tuning. You could even make an average speaker sound really good with proper install and tuning. I would focus on that part first, then buy a driver that you can afford. See what the sound off competitors use. I'm sure you could make a long list of very good candidates.
@@JasonWW2000you missed the point of his question. He ask him for HIS opinion which was best out of the ones he has heard personally. He did not what is the best midrange period.
@@ericperry72It would not be the first time I missed the point of a person's question. Lol
I see hot glue and pop cycle sticks in my future. ;-)
Proper ghetto!
However. Some filler and a power sander and a "crazy idea" becomes a "solution"
Its just for testing.