So glad that many of you noticed the bitterness in American commentary towards Plushenko! And shared your opinions here! I completely agree that this is out of jealousy! It's just sad that there isn't any professional standards in sports broadcasting in North America... But guess it didn't really matter, Zhenya's greatness still shined through despite all the bitter words!
Trust me...American Commentators from the different networks are like this with EVERY skater, not just Evgeny Plushenko. You think Plushenko had it bad? Tonya Harding, pre-knee whack of Nancy Kerrigan, got very harsh commentary because her programs were not as traditional as most of the skaters, not as feminine if you get my drift. This commentary is actually quite nice towards Evgeny. Sounds like the one with more envy is Elvis Stojko here, who was in fact a skater himself.
Fandreea, I'm glad you made your comment about the differences in commentating on Plushenko's work in different parts of the world. I've been a very avid watcher of Evgeni's skating for 20 years and the international reactions got to be very predictable. Americans admired Plush's technical skills, but because his approach to choreography is frankly avant garde and based more on classical dance models than North American skating is, they took every chance to run down the choreography. Frankly I simply don't think they showed much evidrnce of even understanding what Plushenko was trying to do. The Canadian commentators were vicious. While I don't think Elvis's commentary is particularly so here, what strikes me is that he's falling into the Canadian habit of carping more on what he sees as negatives but not addressing what's working in the program. You can contrast this with commentary in Asia, which was warm and respectful, and commentary in Europe, which was far more positive. If anything the British commentators almost fawned over Plush. His virtuosity and risk-taking were recognized and either admired or reviled. That is how it often goes with skaters with precocious talent like Plushenko; I've seen him actually create envy in people, so accusations of jealousy are legit. There are certain aspects of commentary that are also legit here. Too much two-footed skating deserves critique; we all know that one-footed skating is more difficult, even if Plush is (wisely) using that time as a breather. Plush, at that time in his career, also did front load programs a lot. It certainly does make sense to do your most difficult jumps early on, but you have to save some fire for the ending. I love the "Carmen" program, but this tendency for front loading does make it feel not quite balanced. That said, when the COP judging system was introduced, Plushenko responded smartly by diversifying his programs; he had already been working to make his footwork sequences harder, faster and more dazzling (check out the Michael Jackson Medley to see his improvement there) and to improve the one real weakness in his skating, his sometimes lackluster spins. (If you want to see how much better his sit spin got to be, watch the spin he does in the gala program for "Jewish Melody"; in slow mo you can see his form and it frankly robs me of breath, it's so good). He actually racked up 9 of the 15 highest scores in the first years of the COP system. Danny Hathaway, Plushenko didn't over emphasize jumps in his later work. In fact he started to concentrate more on these other elements. The controversy in Vancouver was over whether a person should be able to win a gold medal if he can't do a quad, the most difficult jump in figure skating. Plushenko's overall position in Vancouver was weakened a little by the fact that he didn't skate up to his potential that day. But his technical point was legitimate. The quad was not a new jump but an established part of the repertoire by 2010. All men wanting to win the gold had to do it, and why should a man who didn't do it win over men who can? Plushenko's argument was that if a triple-triple combination in the second half of the program could erase the point value of the quad, then no one would do the quad and the technical advancement of figure skating as a sport would be diminished. Whether you enjoy the current quad mania or not, the point per athletics is sound. And frankly, Plushenko at that time could do triple triples in his sleep. Plushenko's problems in Vancouver were shaky landings and choreography that in that case hadn't quite gelled yet. Moreover, judges did not apply all the deductions Lysachek should have received. If I were Plushenko I'd bitch too, whether Americans liked it or not. It's significant to remember that Plushenko had a lot of supporters on that issue, including Elvis Stojko. All that said, I'm amazed that professional commentators here aren't even seeming to understand how this program is constructed. Plushenko's coach, Alexei Mishin, always placed his skaters' most impressive moves right in front of the judges. The question is, why not? Why wouldn't a smart coaching and choreographing team not want to put its best moves in front of the people judging them? And frankly nothing was stopping Americans or Canadians from doing the same thing. The commentators also don't get the crazy ambition of "Carmen." The first four jumping passes ARE amazing and were the most difficult anyone attempted at the 2002 Olympics. Moreover, how is it that they don't comment on how the skate is clearly organized into segments, with Plush playing different characters from Bizet's opera in four different segments? That is in part why he has the very quick stops and shifts; he's taking us through the whole opera by playing the different characters throughout. Artistically that is insanely ambitious, and again ahead of what anyone else did in terms of risk-taking in 2002. Love Plushenko's skating or not, that daring should be recognized. The commentators here don't seem to be able to see the larger picture.
Joseph Kang I know. i didn't want to word it that way because people get all butthurt and stuff. I mean, I understand that Plushenko was a pioneer for people like Hanyu, but Hanyu is barely in his 20's, I wouldn'T be surprised if before the end of his career he takes out something like a quad/quad, more quad/triple/triples etc.
I am a fan of Hanyu..I think he is fantastic..But, Plushenko has 4 Olympic medals and this upcoming Olympics will be the first since 2002 that he has not competed..Can Hanyu make it to 4 Olympics...Possibly, but only time will tell..
@@chipperterri You mean the first since 1998, since he did of course compete at 2002 Olympics. And, had the Russians had one more spot, he would have gone in 1998, too -- and had a shot at medaling.
How sad and bitter is the commentary- Plushenko is amazing here and he could improvise because he is an artist ( one thing i love is how he hardly ever did his programmes exactly the same- he changed things up, some skaters get lost if they change one thing but he had such a natural ability to skate and emote with the music He did very element he needed to do(very well) and a jump combo that no one could, not to mention some fab footwork and they are just griping about the Russian's- AGAIN. beautiful programme from the best ever- and they really don't allow the viewer or themselves to enjoy it
Plushenko is a technically superior jumper to Kulik. I love Kulik's technique, especially his axel, but if you watch a bunch of his performances, he is waay more inconsistent than Plushenko. Consistency is a large part of being considered as one of the best jumpers. That is why I I put Boitano in my top 3 jumpers of all time even though his quad was not in the league of the more recent crop of skaters. If you go back and look at Boitano, his technique and speed on the jumps he did are far superior to just about any skater today.
@Donny Hathaway Apparently you didn't follow the rest of the Sochi story. In fact Plushenko was in serious danger that day. During his warmup he attempted a triple axel and suddenly could not feel his landing leg. After consultation with his coach Alexei Mishin, Plush reluctantly withdrew from the event. And it was reluctant - he had trained for years for the Sochi Olympics and the pressure he was under in Sochi was immense. Leaving the ice he looked like he had died of disappointment. At that time Plushenko had an artificial vertebrae in his back to compensate for vertebrae that had become damaged through his many years of training and jumping. When he did the triple axel he literally broke one of the bolts in his artificial vertebrae and his skating had loosened two others (think about the strength of an athlete who could break a bolt in his back). X-rays revealed that shards of the broken bolt were dangerously close to his spinal cord. Plushenko didn't know this at the time he made the decision to withdraw but it was clearly the right one. Had he skated, he could have damaged his spinal cord and might not even be walking today. He underwent another operation to address the vertebral damage after the Olympics and he is okay. But at this point he retired from competition in 2017 because he can no longer safely do a quad jump. Plush knows this makes him not competitive at the current level and has decided to emphasize health over other issues. A smart choice. He basically has every title a figure skater can earn anyway, so there's nothing he has left to prove. Plush keeps the broken bolts in his medal room in his home in Moscow. If you're going to try to knock Plushenko, at least have all the facts in front of you before you do.
Great program, intense, exciting, top techniques, perfect interpretation of music, beautiful choreography. The commentaters just don't know what they are talking.
@pinto89100 Oh i forgot: Plushenko moves with a lot of style and elegance and perfection and he does all that while still looking manly. This is his biggest power!!!
The most fun part is that everytime the commentators said bad things about him, they are always slapped by judges' high marks right away. You have to enjoy that.
I agree...I always enjoyed the fact that the judges never agreed with those envious comments...and it's really interesting, that I saw this performance commented by other commenters and they said that this was one of the best performances they ever saw...well that doesn't really match with what these commenters are saying "It's not the best that we have seen from Plushenko". Well if 4-3-3 and all those perfect triples and footwork is not the best, I don't know what is.
they are just jealousy of him, like they always do in last 15 years, I'm in China, Our commentators and figure skaters love him very much, didn't willing to use" Silver Medalist "to call him in 2010, can you believe that? Our most-beloved expert Mr Yang JiaSheng (he is head judge of figure skating in 2006 OG) gave Plushy a perfect 6.0 in 2003 GPF which is his first 6.0 of judge career. So, maybe these North-American commentators are much more a "expect" than Mr Yang. LOL
+Donny Hathaway Well, many experts, coaches, skaters and federation members don't agree with you...so, I tend to believe them instead of you. Everybody knows that Vancouver was a big mistake...that's why they changed the judging system afterwards...so, just do your research instead of saying undocumented things.
***** After 2002 ? give me a break .Obviously, you don't even see his programs at all. Sorry, Evan wouldn't win gold outside North America . Chinese and Germany figure skating team head-coach said this immediately after the game. Evan is a good skater but not as good as King Plushenko, we are not blind.
It's really interesting, that I saw this performance commented by other commenters and they said that this was one of the best performances they ever saw...well that doesn't really match with what these commenters are saying "It's not the best that we have seen from Plushenko". Well if 4-3-3 and all those perfect triples and footwork is not the best, I don't know what is.
The commentary is really malicious...those envious remarks, unbelievable...thank God the judges didn't agree with those commenters. They are trying to discredit his performance in every way, probably because they cannot believe how extraordinary he is. The judges HAVE to see everything and he has to have those breathing points with that incredibly difficult program...nobody dares till this day to do what he did all his career. That's why he is and will remain The Legend of figure skating...no matter how malicious comments he gets.
More bitter commentary towards the Russians, it makes sense- in 2002 OG 3 of the top 6 skaters were Russian and Plushenko and Yagudin were so far ahead that even having fallen in the short and placing 4th Plushenko was able to climb to the silver medal position, the energy output In there programmes was phenomenal- the jump combinations, step sequences and speed across the ice- of course they tired- they gave EVERYTHING
These commentators are just terrible! If it wouls be me commentating that 4-3-3 combo I would just scream! This program is amazing, thanks for posting it! I wasn´t able to watch it at that time but i watched that combo in a later fluff about the qualifying rounds. Since that i Wanted badly to watch the whole program! Thank you very much! Sorry about any mistakes in my english, I´m from Brasil!
Oi, kakaki je nash Evgenii-Krasivai!! A kakoe -Krasivoe , Texnichnoe ispolnenie! Xoregrafiea -Velikolepnaya soprovozjdaetsea muzykalinostiu Vsochaishego Artisticheskogo Voplocheniya! Kajdai jest, kajdai prajok i kaskad prajkov-Unikalina! a dorojka shagov kakaea Velikolepnaia! Fantasticheskoe Katanie! Gordimsya Toboi Evgenii! Zdorovia Tebe i Uspexov! Spasibo , chto i segodnea Ta -Radueshi nas-Krasivym i Velichestvennam kataniem! Nesmotrea na vse Travma i Operazii ta Vshel na Olimpiade i ma smogli videti Tebea tako je -Krasivogo i Stroinogo! Fantastika! Spasibo Evgenii! Zdorovia i Uspexov! Liubim i Grdimsea Toboi!!!
Americans and Canadians are pretty tight knit when it comes to skating. You've even got Canadians commenting on American television. It's just a general North American mindset I think. Dick Button has criticized Plushenko a good amount in the past, but I think overall he is bi-polar towards him.
What one of the comentators said is ririculous! I mean nothing personal but making sure that the judges can see your performance is kind of key- they are the ones that judge your performance! And taking a breather here and there is what I call a good strategy, its like whats your problem dude?
Even if Elvis is a little bit severe, his commentary is fair. He approved the difficulty of the quad-triple-triple combination (the most difficult combination he said), but he also logically noticed that Plushenko's program is technically unbalanced with no jump in the last two minutes (even if the footwork is great). Remember that Elvis won the 1995 world championships thanks to a triple lutz-triple toe combination in the last 20 seconds of his long program (despite an ankle injury) !!! So, Elvis's judgement is severe, but not unfair.
the commentators are just envy. of course you would START with 4-3-3 and 3A-3 because otherweise you won't have enough power to land those in the second half of the programm!
Комментаторы идиоты! Весь прокат придираются неизвестно к чему, а в конце неожиданно для них зал встал, и среди оценок 6.0 ! Зрители и судьи в одной реальности, а комментаторы в другой))
I think the American commentators, are very jealous of the Russian skaters. I heard theirs comments about Lysa's program. They were very very impressed. Ridiculous!
@AnyaAngie I just read it when watching Shizuka Arakawa doing her 3-3-3 combo on the training, it was said that this combination is worth more than a quad (which by the way is stupid in my opinion) but it was also added that if she had done it during the competition no other triple jumps would be counted. And it is not something very fresh.
Artistry is hugely subjective. As far as their points on how he always front loads his programs, strategically has moments where he's doing nothing but two foot skating, and so forth are valid. You can say they're jealous, but right down to it, what they said in this video is the truth. People can argue that it's his decision, but then when he loses because the rest of his competitors are not front loading, their lungs burning, and doing difficult transitions, it's difficult to object his loss.
@dorca000 (cont) he also noted how difficult it was to put jumps later in a program full of all these difficult transitions. He said that this showed fantastic conditioning because after the half point your legs get tired. Again, ask any skater and they will tell you the same. By Plushenko doing what he's doing, front loading, taking long rests, and having little transitions is not pushing the technical barrier at all. It may have worked in his time, but the men have moved on to harder stuff.
Does someone know - I heard that the triple-triple-triple combination is somehow banned by today's ISU rules (I mean you may do it but other jumps will not be counted). Is it true??? And does it apply to quad-triple-triple combo as well??? It would be extremely stupid but knowing ISU rules I would not be surprised at all.
@Euxiphipops77 I have not heard anything about this new rule but I have not read this year's changes. I know you get even more points for a quad though! I don't know why a 4-3-3 or 3-3-3 combo would be forbidden; we gotta keep this sport a sport somehow!
@pinto89100 Chan said: “I kind of took the side that if you did a clean program without the quad you can still win and you can be comfortable,” Chan said. “But to be honest, it’s a whole different level to be doing quads, a whole different level of confidence.” “I understand now. I’m on the other side of the wall. It’s a level of excitement I’m talking about. You just elevate your program to that level of excitement where everyone else who has done quads, like Plushenko, has that excitement."
He is a show man like Yagudin? No jumps at the very last part of the program? Taking a lot of oxygen????? So???? The skater and his coach are free to choose the strategy that they think is the best one. The issue with American commentators is that they don't like the Russian style in figure ice skating and it is very difficult for them to accept the years of Russian experience and triumphs in this discipline. A different way to say it: Russian superiority.
The commentators are idiots. Totally clean, insanely difficult program and they're complaining about "two foot skating". Yeah I would imagine that if I had just done a gazillion jumps I might be kind of tired.
the commentators are bitter because they cannot reach his greatness. Elvis could never achieve this type of artistry, no matter how much he tried. Also, the commentary to the effect of "and look how he lays it all out in front of the judges, very smart strategy" is totally ABSURD. Each skater can do this if he/she wants. What a bunch of cold, boring types looking at ARt. They really need to shut the ^&^# up! They spoil the entire clip.
@pinto89100 I think, the commentators are simply envious of the russian skaters, especially Plushenko's talent. This is so obvious. Their next comments: Evgeni isn't artistry... only a jumper...... Ridiculous.
@dorca000 I don't get it either. It is true that Patrick has incredible basics, and this goes to your PCS score, but with 3 falls it should significantly lower ones' interpretation score at the very least. There are men that also share his talent when it comes to skating skills, but they don't get his ridiculous PCS scores to save them when they fall. I see we both can agree that the judges seem to really like Patrick.
As for Plushenko's style and personality; I'm not going to argue with that. It's all a matter of opinion. My simple point was that people are making these ridiculous 'they are jealous' statements when the commentators are simply pointing out the TRUTH. And on their "classic Russian" statement, I don't see why people are taking it so personally lol. They never said it was a bad thing that like Yagudin, Plushenko likes putting everything in front of the judges. They're telling it like it is.
@pinto I wait when Chan not to fall. He ALWAYS fall, but the judges like him, thus the judges and the FS is very ridiculous.The people won't understand, and always will be angry. I think, i won't watch the FS. I adore Plushenko, i adore his style, his personality.I wouldn't like to see him, when he skate in new style. He was awesome, his programs were perfect, fascinating. I think you know the Tribute to Nijinsky program on Rus Nat CHampionship.That is the BEST MALE FS PROGRAM EVER. Game over...
lol oh man. This is TSN...I think Canada must have a problem with Evgeni Plushenko because they can never be nice to him during any of their commentaries or useful for that matter. Back then AND now. This is one of Plushy's best programs, and the interpretation of the music is perfect. As for improvisation? Sometimes it works, sometimes not. It really didn't work for GPF 2004 tho lol
He has landed ONLY one quad in each program this year..LOL..i want them to comment competitions now! They will say something like He has landed the ONLY quad in competition all season!
Elvis is funny. He's just bitter because he couldn't win an Olympic Gold. And look at Plushenko. He's got one and may very well win another in in the next few weeks.
Do you know, when was this competition? Then not need so many transitions, than now. I think you know the quad and the quad combo how much difficult. You look at Chan in Skate Canada, he fall three time in SP and he fall in LP too.( But he won, what i don't understand. If he fall many times, he didn't deserve so high score for his presentation. Ridiculous.) I hope, you heard what said Chan:
@EIEN07 Psh...their just telling it like it is. The Russians were coming with that style over and over again at that point, and it's wrong to state the obvious? It's up to the viewer whether they like it or not. And he DID swing on the landing of the triple salchow. So the commentator pointed it out....that's what commentators do....
@dorca000 Now, I'm a HUGE fan of Abbott, but I think Chan was actually scored correctly. I don't know what was up, but Jeremy was lacking a lot of his usual flow out of his jumps, and while Pat may be a bigmouth there's no denying he's a hell of a good skater. Like Abbott his basics are top notch and that 4-3 was gorgeous. Also, while he may have fallen on the 3A, it was fully rotated. I think it was pretty close, they both share very similar qualities. And yes, I saw the vid. It was funny. ^_^
@dorca000 The biggest bone I have to pick with the scoring of Patrick is that if he hadn't Zayak'd he would have actually won the competition (if I'm doing my math correctly). Ridiculous...
@dorca000 LOL. Why are you making this a quad argument? Hinting towards the 2010 Olympics? Just doing a quad is NOT pushing the technical barrier. "Then not needed so many transitions" ...Hm? Transitions RAISE the level of difficulty when you put them at the entrance of a jump, every skater knows that. Michael Weiss,who btw is also a fan of quads (he was landing quad lutzs during practice in his day), noted this at Skate Canada and how IMPORTANT they are and how they deserve to be rewarded.
It's funny; you all claim the commentators are severe for pointing out the compositional flaws in Plushenko's programs, yet those are what allowed Evan to defeat him. If you go back to the scoring sheets and examine them, the difference was not GOE (as Scott hamilton claimed) or components, but the fact that Evan got higher spin and footwork levels, and had most of his jumps in the second half. Those basically negated the value of Plushenko's quad. The vancouver judges actually were quite generous with Plushenko in terms of components and even GOEs for very sloppy programs. He lost because of lower base values that reflect some of the compositional flaws Elvis and Tracy pointed out almost a decade earlier!
Evan cannot compare to Plushenko in the jump or performance department. Lysacek's jumps are low, slow and weak looking. His carriage cannot compare to Plushenko either. Lysacek is not 1/2 the athlete Plushenko is/was.
I get Patrick's quote, I've seen it already. Who could have missed that big mouth who while giving out those quotes was busy dissing Takahashi. Well at least, Pat actually has TRANSITIONS, BACK loaded programs, and incredible basics to boot. (so I find it funny that you use Patrick when you seem to hate the mention of the word transitions.) He just needs not to fall. As for him being over scored, he's a female version of Kostner, that's all I can say. The judges like him.
@pinto89100 Wow! Chan fell in Moscow again, on Rostelecom Cup! And he got 81, ...points. Abbott got 77,..., Abbott was the better. Truly, Chan did quad, but he fell in 3A!! Missing the points for 3A, and the deduction -1 point! In the SP!!! Chan leads more than 4 points before Abbott! I don't understand. I saw, that Abbott's transitions was great, and his presentation was great too. I remembered: /watch?v=7UGHeylWv8U You can watch, when Plushenko fell! LOL! So funny!
@nightmistress85 does Dick Button EVER know what he's saying? He's one of the most useless commentators out there with his bipolarity in opinions in general. I think the American commentators were very sympathetic and even kind of in awe of Plushenko up until the Van olympics (when one of their own could've won) but Canadian commentators as a whole (especially CTV) have just been ruthless and unfair to him. I say this as Canadian skating fan.
Hanyu is great because he is so skinny. His technique and carriage are not as good as Plushenko. Neither is his dynamic range of tempo and performance.
@dorca000 Well if you're talking about the WHOLE competition, then I agree that Pat's PCS scores were again way too high for the free. But as for his ranking, you have to take into consideration that comparing it to the previous grand prix events for the men, it was a very flawed competition. Jeremy had the potential to win this event but he faltered badly. As for the rest of the men below the podium; lots of mistakes and quite of few that just aren't there with their basic skating.
psh the commentator's just jealous xP talking about "this smile...just because he's done his jumps" and "typically russian...in front of the judges" "ah a little swinging on the landing" ... tsk tsk... if he's good, might as well show it to the judges right? what's wrong in wanting to show the judges that you've worked a lot and that you're fully prepared for the competition?
I disagree. I talk about the whole competition. Chan fell 4 time and he can be second or even Canada fell also 4 time, and he was first. This is ridiculous, this is what i talked. I belive you that Chan is so superb and ect. But he even didn't makes perfect program, and he always carries out the rankings at the beginning. In the old system wasn't such thing. The new system is stupid.
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So glad that many of you noticed the bitterness in American commentary towards Plushenko! And shared your opinions here! I completely agree that this is out of jealousy! It's just sad that there isn't any professional standards in sports broadcasting in North America... But guess it didn't really matter, Zhenya's greatness still shined through despite all the bitter words!
Trust me...American Commentators from the different networks are like this with EVERY skater, not just Evgeny Plushenko. You think Plushenko had it bad? Tonya Harding, pre-knee whack of Nancy Kerrigan, got very harsh commentary because her programs were not as traditional as most of the skaters, not as feminine if you get my drift. This commentary is actually quite nice towards Evgeny. Sounds like the one with more envy is Elvis Stojko here, who was in fact a skater himself.
Los comentaristas tienen contra Plushenko un nivel de toxicidad extrema. Pero Evgeni es la absoluta perfección , siempre un deleite verlo.
Fandreea, I'm glad you made your comment about the differences in commentating on Plushenko's work in different parts of the world.
I've been a very avid watcher of Evgeni's skating for 20 years and the international reactions got to be very predictable.
Americans admired Plush's technical skills, but because his approach to choreography is frankly avant garde and based more on classical dance models than North American skating is, they took every chance to run down the choreography. Frankly I simply don't think they showed much evidrnce of even understanding what Plushenko was trying to do. The Canadian commentators were vicious. While I don't think Elvis's commentary is particularly so here, what strikes me is that he's falling into the Canadian habit of carping more on what he sees as negatives but not addressing what's working in the program. You can contrast this with commentary in Asia, which was warm and respectful, and commentary in Europe, which was far more positive. If anything the British commentators almost fawned over Plush. His virtuosity and risk-taking were recognized and either admired or reviled. That is how it often goes with skaters with precocious talent like Plushenko; I've seen him actually create envy in people, so accusations of jealousy are legit.
There are certain aspects of commentary that are also legit here. Too much two-footed skating deserves critique; we all know that one-footed skating is more difficult, even if Plush is (wisely) using that time as a breather. Plush, at that time in his career, also did front load programs a lot. It certainly does make sense to do your most difficult jumps early on, but you have to save some fire for the ending. I love the "Carmen" program, but this tendency for front loading does make it feel not quite balanced. That said, when the COP judging system was introduced, Plushenko responded smartly by diversifying his programs; he had already been working to make his footwork sequences harder, faster and more dazzling (check out the Michael Jackson Medley to see his improvement there) and to improve the one real weakness in his skating, his sometimes lackluster spins. (If you want to see how much better his sit spin got to be, watch the spin he does in the gala program for "Jewish Melody"; in slow mo you can see his form and it frankly robs me of breath, it's so good). He actually racked up 9 of the 15 highest scores in the first years of the COP system.
Danny Hathaway, Plushenko didn't over emphasize jumps in his later work. In fact he started to concentrate more on these other elements. The controversy in Vancouver was over whether a person should be able to win a gold medal if he can't do a quad, the most difficult jump in figure skating. Plushenko's overall position in Vancouver was weakened a little by the fact that he didn't skate up to his potential that day. But his technical point was legitimate. The quad was not a new jump but an established part of the repertoire by 2010. All men wanting to win the gold had to do it, and why should a man who didn't do it win over men who can? Plushenko's argument was that if a triple-triple combination in the second half of the program could erase the point value of the quad, then no one would do the quad and the technical advancement of figure skating as a sport would be diminished. Whether you enjoy the current quad mania or not, the point per athletics is sound. And frankly, Plushenko at that time could do triple triples in his sleep. Plushenko's problems in Vancouver were shaky landings and choreography that in that case hadn't quite gelled yet. Moreover, judges did not apply all the deductions Lysachek should have received. If I were Plushenko I'd bitch too, whether Americans liked it or not. It's significant to remember that Plushenko had a lot of supporters on that issue, including Elvis Stojko.
All that said, I'm amazed that professional commentators here aren't even seeming to understand how this program is constructed. Plushenko's coach, Alexei Mishin, always placed his skaters' most impressive moves right in front of the judges. The question is, why not? Why wouldn't a smart coaching and choreographing team not want to put its best moves in front of the people judging them? And frankly nothing was stopping Americans or Canadians from doing the same thing. The commentators also don't get the crazy ambition of "Carmen." The first four jumping passes ARE amazing and were the most difficult anyone attempted at the 2002 Olympics. Moreover, how is it that they don't comment on how the skate is clearly organized into segments, with Plush playing different characters from Bizet's opera in four different segments? That is in part why he has the very quick stops and shifts; he's taking us through the whole opera by playing the different characters throughout. Artistically that is insanely ambitious, and again ahead of what anyone else did in terms of risk-taking in 2002. Love Plushenko's skating or not, that daring should be recognized. The commentators here don't seem to be able to see the larger picture.
Plushenko is a legend and it will be many years (if ever) that another skater can top his achievements.
Hanyu's a skater worthy of his legacy
Joseph Kang I know. i didn't want to word it that way because people get all butthurt and stuff. I mean, I understand that Plushenko was a pioneer for people like Hanyu, but Hanyu is barely in his 20's, I wouldn'T be surprised if before the end of his career he takes out something like a quad/quad, more quad/triple/triples etc.
I am a fan of Hanyu..I think he is fantastic..But, Plushenko has 4 Olympic medals and this upcoming Olympics will be the first since 2002 that he has not competed..Can Hanyu make it to 4 Olympics...Possibly, but only time will tell..
@@chipperterri You mean the first since 1998, since he did of course compete at 2002 Olympics. And, had the Russians had one more spot, he would have gone in 1998, too -- and had a shot at medaling.
Спасибо вам за добрые слова.Вы правильно заметили что Евгений артист на льду ,сейчас нет таких .
Бесподобно!! Он гений льда и артист!!!👍💋❤️❤️❤️
Блеск!Гениальный фигурист
How sad and bitter is the commentary- Plushenko is amazing here and he could improvise because he is an artist ( one thing i love is how he hardly ever did his programmes exactly the same- he changed things up, some skaters get lost if they change one thing but he had such a natural ability to skate and emote with the music He did very element he needed to do(very well) and a jump combo that no one could, not to mention some fab footwork and they are just griping about the Russian's- AGAIN. beautiful programme from the best ever- and they really don't allow the viewer or themselves to enjoy it
Plushenko is a technically superior jumper to Kulik. I love Kulik's technique, especially his axel, but if you watch a bunch of his performances, he is waay more inconsistent than Plushenko. Consistency is a large part of being considered as one of the best jumpers. That is why I I put Boitano in my top 3 jumpers of all time even though his quad was not in the league of the more recent crop of skaters. If you go back and look at Boitano, his technique and speed on the jumps he did are far superior to just about any skater today.
@Donny Hathaway Apparently you didn't follow the rest of the Sochi story. In fact Plushenko was in serious danger that day. During his warmup he attempted a triple axel and suddenly could not feel his landing leg. After consultation with his coach Alexei Mishin, Plush reluctantly withdrew from the event. And it was reluctant - he had trained for years for the Sochi Olympics and the pressure he was under in Sochi was immense. Leaving the ice he looked like he had died of disappointment.
At that time Plushenko had an artificial vertebrae in his back to compensate for vertebrae that had become damaged through his many years of training and jumping. When he did the triple axel he literally broke one of the bolts in his artificial vertebrae and his skating had loosened two others (think about the strength of an athlete who could break a bolt in his back). X-rays revealed that shards of the broken bolt were dangerously close to his spinal cord. Plushenko didn't know this at the time he made the decision to withdraw but it was clearly the right one. Had he skated, he could have damaged his spinal cord and might not even be walking today. He underwent another operation to address the vertebral damage after the Olympics and he is okay. But at this point he retired from competition in 2017 because he can no longer safely do a quad jump. Plush knows this makes him not competitive at the current level and has decided to emphasize health over other issues. A smart choice. He basically has every title a figure skater can earn anyway, so there's nothing he has left to prove. Plush keeps the broken bolts in his medal room in his home in Moscow.
If you're going to try to knock Plushenko, at least have all the facts in front of you before you do.
Great program, intense, exciting, top techniques, perfect interpretation of music, beautiful choreography. The commentaters just don't know what they are talking.
Респект!!!👍💋❤️
@pinto89100 Oh i forgot: Plushenko moves with a lot of style and elegance and perfection and he does all that while still looking manly. This is his biggest power!!!
WOW!!!!!
He is awesome!!!
ВОСТОРГ, ВОСТОРГ, ВОСТОРГ!!!!!
The most fun part is that everytime the commentators said bad things about him, they are always slapped by judges' high marks right away. You have to enjoy that.
I agree...I always enjoyed the fact that the judges never agreed with those envious comments...and it's really interesting, that I saw this performance commented by other commenters and they said that this was one of the best performances they ever saw...well that doesn't really match with what these commenters are saying "It's not the best that we have seen from Plushenko". Well if 4-3-3 and all those perfect triples and footwork is not the best, I don't know what is.
they are just jealousy of him, like they always do in last 15 years, I'm in China, Our commentators and figure skaters love him very much, didn't willing to use" Silver Medalist "to call him in 2010, can you believe that? Our most-beloved expert Mr Yang JiaSheng (he is head judge of figure skating in 2006 OG) gave Plushy a perfect 6.0 in 2003 GPF which is his first 6.0 of judge career. So, maybe these North-American commentators are much more a "expect" than Mr Yang. LOL
+Donny Hathaway
Well, many experts, coaches, skaters and federation members don't agree with you...so, I tend to believe them instead of you. Everybody knows that Vancouver was a big mistake...that's why they changed the judging system afterwards...so, just do your research instead of saying undocumented things.
***** After 2002 ? give me a break .Obviously, you don't even see his programs at all. Sorry, Evan wouldn't win gold outside North America . Chinese and Germany figure skating team head-coach said this immediately after the game. Evan is a good skater but not as good as King Plushenko, we are not blind.
It's really interesting, that I saw this performance commented by other commenters and they said that this was one of the best performances they ever saw...well that doesn't really match with what these commenters are saying "It's not the best that we have seen from Plushenko". Well if 4-3-3 and all those perfect triples and footwork is not the best, I don't know what is.
beautiful performance!
this came out a lot better than his performance at the 2002 Olympics. So much crisper on the landings 8-) and yes, the best absolutely was yet to come
ПЕРЕСМАТРИВАЕМ КАТАНИЕВ 24Г .. НЕТ НИКОГО ЛУЧШЕГО В МУЖСКОМ КАТАНИИ! ЖЕНЯ-ЗВЕЗДА НИКОГДА НЕ ПОГАСНЕТ!
The commentary is really malicious...those envious remarks, unbelievable...thank God the judges didn't agree with those commenters.
They are trying to discredit his performance in every way, probably because they cannot believe how extraordinary he is. The judges HAVE to see everything and he has to have those breathing points with that incredibly difficult program...nobody dares till this day to do what he did all his career. That's why he is and will remain The Legend of figure skating...no matter how malicious comments he gets.
BRAVO!
Look at the jumps!
@Commentators:
Please criticize his "Russian style" after you have landed a 4-3-3.
Thank you.
More bitter commentary towards the Russians, it makes sense- in 2002 OG 3 of the top 6 skaters were Russian and Plushenko and Yagudin were so far ahead that even having fallen in the short and placing 4th Plushenko was able to climb to the silver medal position, the energy output In there programmes was phenomenal- the jump combinations, step sequences and speed across the ice- of course they tired- they gave EVERYTHING
These commentators are just terrible! If it wouls be me commentating that 4-3-3 combo I would just scream! This program is amazing, thanks for posting it! I wasn´t able to watch it at that time but i watched that combo in a later fluff about the qualifying rounds. Since that i Wanted badly to watch the whole program! Thank you very much! Sorry about any mistakes in my english, I´m from Brasil!
Oi, kakaki je nash Evgenii-Krasivai!! A kakoe -Krasivoe , Texnichnoe ispolnenie! Xoregrafiea -Velikolepnaya soprovozjdaetsea muzykalinostiu Vsochaishego Artisticheskogo Voplocheniya! Kajdai jest, kajdai prajok i kaskad prajkov-Unikalina! a dorojka shagov kakaea Velikolepnaia! Fantasticheskoe Katanie! Gordimsya Toboi Evgenii! Zdorovia Tebe i Uspexov! Spasibo , chto i segodnea Ta -Radueshi nas-Krasivym i Velichestvennam kataniem! Nesmotrea na vse Travma i Operazii ta Vshel na Olimpiade i ma smogli videti Tebea tako je -Krasivogo i Stroinogo! Fantastika! Spasibo Evgenii! Zdorovia i Uspexov! Liubim i Grdimsea Toboi!!!
OMG Elvis is so bitter!
@iarewtf In the Olypics he did triple Axel, half Loop , triple Flip combo
Americans and Canadians are pretty tight knit when it comes to skating. You've even got Canadians commenting on American television. It's just a general North American mindset I think. Dick Button has criticized Plushenko a good amount in the past, but I think overall he is bi-polar towards him.
What one of the comentators said is ririculous! I mean nothing personal but making sure that the judges can see your performance is kind of key- they are the ones that judge your performance! And taking a breather here and there is what I call a good strategy, its like whats your problem dude?
Evgenii Ne ustaiu-Smotreti I Radovatisza Tvoim Kataniem! Spasibo Evgenii! Zdorovia Tebe -Ogromnogo i Uspexov! Gordimsya! Liubim!
@limetime11 Yes, Thank you!!!
Браво!!!
Even if Elvis is a little bit severe, his commentary is fair. He approved the difficulty of the quad-triple-triple combination (the most difficult combination he said), but he also logically noticed that Plushenko's program is technically unbalanced with no jump in the last two minutes (even if the footwork is great).
Remember that Elvis won the 1995 world championships thanks to a triple lutz-triple toe combination in the last 20 seconds of his long program (despite an ankle injury) !!!
So, Elvis's judgement is severe, but not unfair.
Но какие шаги!
@sjennisca The way she comments with the solemn music makes the combination a real treat to cherish Rofl
@Euxiphipops77 Yes, a combo should be worth more than a solo jump. When was this video you saw taken?
I belikeve that's his Olympics long program (added to the score of his Olympic short program) from 2006.
the commentators are just envy. of course you would START with 4-3-3 and 3A-3 because otherweise you won't have enough power to land those in the second half of the programm!
Комментаторы идиоты! Весь прокат придираются неизвестно к чему, а в конце неожиданно для них зал встал, и среди оценок 6.0 ! Зрители и судьи в одной реальности, а комментаторы в другой))
I think the American commentators, are very jealous of the Russian skaters. I heard theirs comments about Lysa's program. They were very very impressed. Ridiculous!
@AnyaAngie I just read it when watching Shizuka Arakawa doing her 3-3-3 combo on the training, it was said that this combination is worth more than a quad (which by the way is stupid in my opinion) but it was also added that if she had done it during the competition no other triple jumps would be counted. And it is not something very fresh.
Artistry is hugely subjective. As far as their points on how he always front loads his programs, strategically has moments where he's doing nothing but two foot skating, and so forth are valid. You can say they're jealous, but right down to it, what they said in this video is the truth. People can argue that it's his decision, but then when he loses because the rest of his competitors are not front loading, their lungs burning, and doing difficult transitions, it's difficult to object his loss.
@dorca000 (cont) he also noted how difficult it was to put jumps later in a program full of all these difficult transitions. He said that this showed fantastic conditioning because after the half point your legs get tired. Again, ask any skater and they will tell you the same.
By Plushenko doing what he's doing, front loading, taking long rests, and having little transitions is not pushing the technical barrier at all. It may have worked in his time, but the men have moved on to harder stuff.
Молодец!!!
Does someone know - I heard that the triple-triple-triple combination is somehow banned by today's ISU rules (I mean you may do it but other jumps will not be counted). Is it true??? And does it apply to quad-triple-triple combo as well??? It would be extremely stupid but knowing ISU rules I would not be surprised at all.
@Euxiphipops77 I have not heard anything about this new rule but I have not read this year's changes. I know you get even more points for a quad though! I don't know why a 4-3-3 or 3-3-3 combo would be forbidden; we gotta keep this sport a sport somehow!
@pinto89100 Chan said:
“I kind of took the side that if you did a clean program without the quad you can still win and you can be comfortable,” Chan said. “But to be honest, it’s a whole different level to be doing quads, a whole different level of confidence.”
“I understand now. I’m on the other side of the wall. It’s a level of excitement I’m talking about. You just elevate your program to that level of excitement where everyone else who has done quads, like Plushenko, has that excitement."
He is a show man like Yagudin? No jumps at the very last part of the program? Taking a lot of oxygen????? So???? The skater and his coach are free to choose the strategy that they think is the best one. The issue with American commentators is that they don't like the Russian style in figure ice skating and it is very difficult for them to accept the years of Russian experience and triumphs in this discipline. A different way to say it: Russian superiority.
The commentators are idiots. Totally clean, insanely difficult program and they're complaining about "two foot skating". Yeah I would imagine that if I had just done a gazillion jumps I might be kind of tired.
Классно молодец
the commentators are bitter because they cannot reach his greatness. Elvis could never achieve this type of artistry, no matter how much he tried. Also, the commentary to the effect of "and look how he lays it all out in front of the judges, very smart strategy" is totally ABSURD. Each skater can do this if he/she wants. What a bunch of cold, boring types looking at ARt. They really need to shut the ^&^# up! They spoil the entire clip.
@pinto89100 I think, the commentators are simply envious of the russian skaters, especially Plushenko's talent. This is so obvious. Their next comments: Evgeni isn't artistry... only a jumper...... Ridiculous.
@dorca000 I don't get it either. It is true that Patrick has incredible basics, and this goes to your PCS score, but with 3 falls it should significantly lower ones' interpretation score at the very least. There are men that also share his talent when it comes to skating skills, but they don't get his ridiculous PCS scores to save them when they fall. I see we both can agree that the judges seem to really like Patrick.
As for Plushenko's style and personality; I'm not going to argue with that. It's all a matter of opinion.
My simple point was that people are making these ridiculous 'they are jealous' statements when the commentators are simply pointing out the TRUTH. And on their "classic Russian" statement, I don't see why people are taking it so personally lol. They never said it was a bad thing that like Yagudin, Plushenko likes putting everything in front of the judges. They're telling it like it is.
that was enchanting! and @commentators: Haters Gonna Hate:)
ha ha! very good point! I like it!
@pinto I wait when Chan not to fall. He ALWAYS fall, but the judges like him, thus the judges and the FS is very ridiculous.The people won't understand, and always will be angry. I think, i won't watch the FS. I adore Plushenko, i adore his style, his personality.I wouldn't like to see him, when he skate in new style. He was awesome, his programs were perfect, fascinating. I think you know the Tribute to Nijinsky program on Rus Nat CHampionship.That is the BEST MALE FS PROGRAM EVER. Game over...
lol oh man. This is TSN...I think Canada must have a problem with Evgeni Plushenko because they can never be nice to him during any of their commentaries or useful for that matter. Back then AND now. This is one of Plushy's best programs, and the interpretation of the music is perfect. As for improvisation? Sometimes it works, sometimes not. It really didn't work for GPF 2004 tho lol
He has landed ONLY one quad in each program this year..LOL..i want them to comment competitions now! They will say something like He has landed the ONLY quad in competition all season!
Elvis is funny. He's just bitter because he couldn't win an Olympic Gold. And look at Plushenko. He's got one and may very well win another in in the next few weeks.
Yeah I know, but I'm just saying there's not a big difference. Sandra Bezic commentating with Scott Hamilton and people will just say "the Americans".
Do you know, when was this competition? Then not need so many transitions, than now. I think you know the quad and the quad combo how much difficult. You look at Chan in Skate Canada, he fall three time in SP and he fall in LP too.( But he won, what i don't understand. If he fall many times, he didn't deserve so high score for his presentation. Ridiculous.) I hope, you heard what said Chan:
@EIEN07 Psh...their just telling it like it is. The Russians were coming with that style over and over again at that point, and it's wrong to state the obvious? It's up to the viewer whether they like it or not.
And he DID swing on the landing of the triple salchow. So the commentator pointed it out....that's what commentators do....
is he the first ever to do the quad
@dorca000 Now, I'm a HUGE fan of Abbott, but I think Chan was actually scored correctly. I don't know what was up, but Jeremy was lacking a lot of his usual flow out of his jumps, and while Pat may be a bigmouth there's no denying he's a hell of a good skater. Like Abbott his basics are top notch and that 4-3 was gorgeous. Also, while he may have fallen on the 3A, it was fully rotated. I think it was pretty close, they both share very similar qualities.
And yes, I saw the vid. It was funny. ^_^
sheesh in the all the jumps in the in the beginning....not really well choreographed but he's awesome none the less...
@dorca000 The biggest bone I have to pick with the scoring of Patrick is that if he hadn't Zayak'd he would have actually won the competition (if I'm doing my math correctly). Ridiculous...
@jspkim I try to watch the video without listening to the commentators!!!
@dorca000 LOL. Why are you making this a quad argument? Hinting towards the 2010 Olympics? Just doing a quad is NOT pushing the technical barrier. "Then not needed so many transitions" ...Hm? Transitions RAISE the level of difficulty when you put them at the entrance of a jump, every skater knows that. Michael Weiss,who btw is also a fan of quads (he was landing quad lutzs during practice in his day), noted this at Skate Canada and how IMPORTANT they are and how they deserve to be rewarded.
It's funny; you all claim the commentators are severe for pointing out the compositional flaws in Plushenko's programs, yet those are what allowed Evan to defeat him. If you go back to the scoring sheets and examine them, the difference was not GOE (as Scott hamilton claimed) or components, but the fact that Evan got higher spin and footwork levels, and had most of his jumps in the second half. Those basically negated the value of Plushenko's quad. The vancouver judges actually were quite generous with Plushenko in terms of components and even GOEs for very sloppy programs. He lost because of lower base values that reflect some of the compositional flaws Elvis and Tracy pointed out almost a decade earlier!
Evan cannot compare to Plushenko in the jump or performance department. Lysacek's jumps are low, slow and weak looking. His carriage cannot compare to Plushenko either. Lysacek is not 1/2 the athlete Plushenko is/was.
Pero si que ganará ese yanqui fue un robó, ni Ali babá se atrevió a tanto.
lol commentators learn to control your jealousy a little pls:D
I get Patrick's quote, I've seen it already. Who could have missed that big mouth who while giving out those quotes was busy dissing Takahashi. Well at least, Pat actually has TRANSITIONS, BACK loaded programs, and incredible basics to boot. (so I find it funny that you use Patrick when you seem to hate the mention of the word transitions.) He just needs not to fall. As for him being over scored, he's a female version of Kostner, that's all I can say. The judges like him.
@pinto89100 Wow! Chan fell in Moscow again, on Rostelecom Cup! And he got 81, ...points. Abbott got 77,..., Abbott was the better. Truly, Chan did quad, but he fell in 3A!! Missing the points for 3A, and the deduction -1 point! In the SP!!! Chan leads more than 4 points before Abbott! I don't understand. I saw, that Abbott's transitions was great, and his presentation was great too.
I remembered: /watch?v=7UGHeylWv8U
You can watch, when Plushenko fell! LOL! So funny!
Что же Элвиса не научили кататься ? Смешно , когда он выходит на лёд !!! 5:57
@nightmistress85 does Dick Button EVER know what he's saying? He's one of the most useless commentators out there with his bipolarity in opinions in general. I think the American commentators were very sympathetic and even kind of in awe of Plushenko up until the Van olympics (when one of their own could've won) but Canadian commentators as a whole (especially CTV) have just been ruthless and unfair to him. I say this as Canadian skating fan.
WHAT IS ABOUT STOJKO
I THINK HE IS BITTER OF ZHENIA
Maybe because a teen Plushenko kick his ass in competitions like the Grand Prix
honestly i think hanyu is better but only because he is young and not old like plushenko no offenes plushenko is still my favorite
Hanyu is great because he is so skinny. His technique and carriage are not as good as Plushenko. Neither is his dynamic range of tempo and performance.
@dorca000 Well if you're talking about the WHOLE competition, then I agree that Pat's PCS scores were again way too high for the free. But as for his ranking, you have to take into consideration that comparing it to the previous grand prix events for the men, it was a very flawed competition. Jeremy had the potential to win this event but he faltered badly. As for the rest of the men below the podium; lots of mistakes and quite of few that just aren't there with their basic skating.
@dimiiiiiiiiii Good point. :)))))) Today's male skaters are very often worser in jumping than Midori Ito. Shame
psh the commentator's just jealous xP talking about "this smile...just because he's done his jumps" and "typically russian...in front of the judges" "ah a little swinging on the landing" ... tsk tsk... if he's good, might as well show it to the judges right? what's wrong in wanting to show the judges that you've worked a lot and that you're fully prepared for the competition?
I disagree. I talk about the whole competition. Chan fell 4 time and he can be second or even Canada fell also 4 time, and he was first. This is ridiculous, this is what i talked. I belive you that Chan is so superb and ect. But he even didn't makes perfect program, and he always carries out the rankings at the beginning. In the old system wasn't such thing. The new system is stupid.
I know LOL can't stand them!
Jeez, these commnetators are soooo annoying.
oh lol, what a bitter commentator...