Stock frame, cases, and swingarm... You can change the bottom ends gearing and stuff, and that doesn't mean you can't add an old swing arm or something, it just has to be Stock. Like outdoors, they gave Dylan a swing arm off the '22 to get a larger wheelbase in attempt to get back some of that stability. Honda also let McGrath run his favorite frame from an older model with the newer and better engine.. And its not illegal, because it technically came off a stock Honda. But you can't make your own one off frame, swing arm, or engine cases
Yeah back in the 90s they would swap around engine parts too. Like 94 cyl on a 96 because the porting was better for the 96 pv. Or something. I think there is a stock cases rule right? And cc size cant change but you can bump compression. Swap cams etc.
Jeremy Mac used a older frame on his Hondas for mor years then they would allow today. When they told him he would have to ride an Aluminum frame bike next year he went to Suzuki. You can add extra stiffness to a frame. Jett has a plate added to the front of his frame on the 450. Sexton doesn’t. KTM has a extra pipe added to their factory frame. Webb didn’t like it and had it removed from his frames.
As a regular guy who doesnt wanna spend 10k on essentially a toy NOW i would hate to see engineering like that be brought into MX, i honestly dont even know if there is enough interest and sponsor money to make this a multi million dollar sport just to even attend.
IMO... The rules being based around production bikes is the most open and best possible way to drive development and innovation in the sport... If it were done like F1 and the AMA wrote "absolute" machine rules rather than "relative" rules as it is now... you might have many things being developed and used that may take a decade to reach consumer bikes... as it is now basically the rules are quite open for development... the manufactures can still do about anything they want...they just have to make it available to everyone.... Fortunately, this just happens to help be a bit of an equalizer for the racing as well.... Look at the bikes in the late 70's and early 80's.... HUGE changes came out every year ... if there were rules then about air cooling and drum brakes etc... who knows when we would have got those things on production bikes... And realistically things with production bikes have gotten so much better I'm not sure that the level of custom "works bikes" of the 80's wouldn't have developed into exactly where we are today... a huge percentage of the of crazy 1 off parts back in the day just aren't so significant today...
AMA should allow bringing back the works bike in the premiere class, keep 250 class like it is, ( all the parts have to be available to the general public) MXGP let's them use different frames and heads, etc to suit riders preference, there's only a handful of racers on the entire planet that can ride at the top level, probably less than 40 on the whole planet that can challenge for a MX or SX race win , let them ride expermental stuff to suite their riding style, the technology trickles down anyway, you put 20th place lapper dude on a works bike he is still 20th place lapper dude
KTM was 95% pushbikes and almost went broke in the early 1990's and finally got people in who wanted to make the motocross bikes a genuine threat to the Japanese MX brands and in 1994 they came out with bikes that were as good as the Japanese bikes, and since then they have exploded in popularity in the market, they were always a great enduro bike, but not in mx but from 1994 onwards have been making great MX bikes
Lol KTMs weren’t good until 2013. Older KTMs used a nylon lock washer on the cam that after 15 hours back out and fell into the bottom end. Happened to my 520 3 times. Anyone that’s actually a fast trail rider/hard on bikes knows early year KTMs where dog shit. Terrible suspension too and all of the spokes break and still do break on new KTMs. Not to mention the new chassis sucks!! Old one was amazing tho.
@edwardvanwormer6993 southwick is a legit sandtrack. A few years ago they did add some other sand to it that is heavier, but it's still all whoops by noon on practice and race days. But it is not loose sand like a sandpit.
I would like to see all motocross and supercross bikes 100% stock. Max cap on bikes 20k. And then have an open class for both supercross and motocross where anything goes.
Like what? Name anything that makes any sense. You cannot remove material..... hard to believe they removed material under a big honking brace. A geometry change isn't hidden by a brace. We are left with a moon laser or human remains.
Control tyre with no mods would close the gap in MX and SX. Dunlop hand out tyre, they select the tyre for that track and everyone runs it. Would keep cost down for privateers and might save tracks for SX by selecting a hardpack tyre.
@@Natedoc808 I just changed my oil on my car, and it looks like they did an amazing job of making the (oil) filter accessible... maybe some schools are teaching it... or they just copied a design from another manufacturer that did it correctly...
@@thetruthserum2816 the fuel filter or the oil filter? Not all manufacturers do that though and it’s only through complaints from their service departments and it increasing costs/time that they change them. For example, 2003 Honda CRV oil filter flange sits directly above the K member and is horizontally mounted so it drains oil directly into the holes in the upper side of the k member and runs laterally onto control arms and makes a huge mess. I made a catch funnel from sheet metal to do my wife’s oil changes until we ditched that car. They changed the setup 3 years later and made a relocation kit for it
@@Natedoc808 oopsie, I meant oil filter. I do need to hunt down where the fuel filter is though, as 110K is likely a good idea to swap... Luckily my whips are easy to tool on, and I do love the all metric parts...
I doubt that’s true for the pro classes. However, Yamaha was recently caught running restricted parts in the amateur class (where parts should be available to all in the class if they so choose to buy/install). That was coincidentally deegan’s third cheating scandal in the amateur ranks correct?
@@GYPSYTALES i reckon they runnin a big bore, you can just tell from the sound of the bike so much diffrent and not the exhaust either, the yz250 has less power then a ktm when its stock and that star engine will kick the ktm engine to the curb, and star racing has gotten away with alot through the years
@@jeffberg9522 yea, but the issue is yamaha pays they way out of it, and when deegan was caught cheating apparently, the representative or co owner of star, was at Loretta'ss and covers his deegan ass for him being the clerk that weekend. Even in 2016 on webb and j marts bike they were rumours of that bike being a cheater bike..
@@chrisvids1820 Now I wonder how much replacing the fork springs with Titanium springs would cost. Titanium springs are lighter, have a higher frequency response and improved suspension dynamics... Titanium is less dense and also has a lower shear modulus than steel, approximately two times lower, making titanium twice as "springy" as steel. Spring deflection for titanium springs is also higher than steel springs, meaning titanium springs require less active coils than comparable steel units. Now off to find some Ti springs for 41mm fork tubes...
@thetruthserum2816 pretty cool. My mind was blown when I rode my bike after it had been resprung/shimed for my weight. Definitely allowed me to ride faster. Let me know how that ti respring goes
I remember back I think when it in 99 Honda got caught with having like four different frame designs for different tracks
next time when you want to find something in a pdf, hold down Ctrl + f then type a key word in
i kept telling roans this but he couldn’t hear me.
If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying
Actually you can modify your frame to strengthen it but you just can't change the geometry.
They should make them run oem stock bikes with just suspension valving/spring changes to suit each riders weight.
Stock frame, cases, and swingarm... You can change the bottom ends gearing and stuff, and that doesn't mean you can't add an old swing arm or something, it just has to be Stock. Like outdoors, they gave Dylan a swing arm off the '22 to get a larger wheelbase in attempt to get back some of that stability. Honda also let McGrath run his favorite frame from an older model with the newer and better engine.. And its not illegal, because it technically came off a stock Honda. But you can't make your own one off frame, swing arm, or engine cases
its pretty cool and fair
Yeah back in the 90s they would swap around engine parts too. Like 94 cyl on a 96 because the porting was better for the 96 pv. Or something.
I think there is a stock cases rule right? And cc size cant change but you can bump compression. Swap cams etc.
Jeremy Mac used a older frame on his Hondas for mor years then they would allow today. When they told him he would have to ride an Aluminum frame bike next year he went to Suzuki.
You can add extra stiffness to a frame. Jett has a plate added to the front of his frame on the 450. Sexton doesn’t. KTM has a extra pipe added to their factory frame. Webb didn’t like it and had it removed from his frames.
there's a lot of things you "cant" do. But the factories do anyways.
@@charleswinters7129 Titanium frame.. lol.
As a regular guy who doesnt wanna spend 10k on essentially a toy NOW i would hate to see engineering like that be brought into MX, i honestly dont even know if there is enough interest and sponsor money to make this a multi million dollar sport just to even attend.
IMO... The rules being based around production bikes is the most open and best possible way to drive development and innovation in the sport... If it were done like F1 and the AMA wrote "absolute" machine rules rather than "relative" rules as it is now... you might have many things being developed and used that may take a decade to reach consumer bikes... as it is now basically the rules are quite open for development... the manufactures can still do about anything they want...they just have to make it available to everyone.... Fortunately, this just happens to help be a bit of an equalizer for the racing as well.... Look at the bikes in the late 70's and early 80's.... HUGE changes came out every year ... if there were rules then about air cooling and drum brakes etc... who knows when we would have got those things on production bikes... And realistically things with production bikes have gotten so much better I'm not sure that the level of custom "works bikes" of the 80's wouldn't have developed into exactly where we are today... a huge percentage of the of crazy 1 off parts back in the day just aren't so significant today...
AMA should allow bringing back the works bike in the premiere class, keep 250 class like it is, ( all the parts have to be available to the general public) MXGP let's them use different frames and heads, etc to suit riders preference, there's only a handful of racers on the entire planet that can ride at the top level, probably less than 40 on the whole planet that can challenge for a MX or SX race win , let them ride expermental stuff to suite their riding style, the technology trickles down anyway, you put 20th place lapper dude on a works bike he is still 20th place lapper dude
KTM was 95% pushbikes and almost went broke in the early 1990's and finally got people in who wanted to make the motocross bikes a genuine threat to the Japanese MX brands and in 1994 they came out with bikes that were as good as the Japanese bikes, and since then they have exploded in popularity in the market, they were always a great enduro bike, but not in mx but from 1994 onwards have been making great MX bikes
Lol KTMs weren’t good until 2013. Older KTMs used a nylon lock washer on the cam that after 15 hours back out and fell into the bottom end. Happened to my 520 3 times. Anyone that’s actually a fast trail rider/hard on bikes knows early year KTMs where dog shit. Terrible suspension too and all of the spokes break and still do break on new KTMs. Not to mention the new chassis sucks!! Old one was amazing tho.
The bottom ends on AMA bikes are definitely not stock
He’s talking about the cases. The center cases have to be production based
Correct, everything else unobtainium
@@devineunlimited6800 you are correct as well lol!
👏
Why can't 250 2 strokes race with 250 4 strokes?
Same question for 450 class raise the cc limit to 500?
How's the effort going into the triumph frame...
Manufactures could explore radial desgins they just need to put the bike into production and sell enogh to meet the rules.
Like radial engines? There's a single cylinder rule.
These two seem to be completely oblivious to how American moto works.
There really aren't any legitimate sand tracks on the ama calendar
No don’t have any idea of what your talking about
Not that I’m aware of just some sand sections. We need a US Lommel
How about Southwick?
@edwardvanwormer6993 southwick is a legit sandtrack. A few years ago they did add some other sand to it that is heavier, but it's still all whoops by noon on practice and race days. But it is not loose sand like a sandpit.
@@611racing it has a base so it's not 100% sand so it's debatable
NO! BAD JASE! Don't start taking from F1. F1 isn't about racing anymore, it's just an engineering competition..
Production rules exist so the factory teams can cheat.
I say that from first hand experience.
There is very little room to cheat, most of the power now comes via the ecu.
@@aus-rider I suppose you're going to ignore the chassis?
@@S0RELOSER they can brace the chassis for support just like Honda has where every keeps saying they are cheating when in fact they are not.
@@aus-rider dude, if you think the factories dont use full works chassis, you’re either naive or pretending to be dumb.
I would like to see all motocross and supercross bikes 100% stock. Max cap on bikes 20k. And then have an open class for both supercross and motocross where anything goes.
This is how the sport should be structured. But the riders in the short should also be getting paid as well and they're not. I'm a perfect world tho
I chuckled when team hrc added a plate near the head tube on sexton bike. Only they know what was done underneath that plate. Haaaa
Like what? Name anything that makes any sense. You cannot remove material..... hard to believe they removed material under a big honking brace. A geometry change isn't hidden by a brace. We are left with a moon laser or human remains.
Control tyre with no mods would close the gap in MX and SX. Dunlop hand out tyre, they select the tyre for that track and everyone runs it. Would keep cost down for privateers and might save tracks for SX by selecting a hardpack tyre.
Engineers always find the most complicated way to build something, the mechanics then fix the problems and tell them what needs to be done
Colleges need to start requiring "mechanics shop 101, 201, 301, 401" prior to graduation with a Mechanical Engineering degree...
@@thetruthserum2816 none of the engineers would pass, it’s too simplified
@@Natedoc808 I just changed my oil on my car, and it looks like they did an amazing job of making the (oil) filter accessible... maybe some schools are teaching it... or they just copied a design from another manufacturer that did it correctly...
@@thetruthserum2816 the fuel filter or the oil filter? Not all manufacturers do that though and it’s only through complaints from their service departments and it increasing costs/time that they change them. For example, 2003 Honda CRV oil filter flange sits directly above the K member and is horizontally mounted so it drains oil directly into the holes in the upper side of the k member and runs laterally onto control arms and makes a huge mess. I made a catch funnel from sheet metal to do my wife’s oil changes until we ditched that car. They changed the setup 3 years later and made a relocation kit for it
@@Natedoc808 oopsie, I meant oil filter. I do need to hunt down where the fuel filter is though, as 110K is likely a good idea to swap... Luckily my whips are easy to tool on, and I do love the all metric parts...
Star bikes are cheating
How?
@GYPSYTALES Because he likes a different brand or team better.
I doubt that’s true for the pro classes. However, Yamaha was recently caught running restricted parts in the amateur class (where parts should be available to all in the class if they so choose to buy/install). That was coincidentally deegan’s third cheating scandal in the amateur ranks correct?
@@GYPSYTALES i reckon they runnin a big bore, you can just tell from the sound of the bike so much diffrent and not the exhaust either, the yz250 has less power then a ktm when its stock and that star engine will kick the ktm engine to the curb, and star racing has gotten away with alot through the years
@@jeffberg9522 yea, but the issue is yamaha pays they way out of it, and when deegan was caught cheating apparently, the representative or co owner of star, was at Loretta'ss and covers his deegan ass for him being the clerk that weekend. Even in 2016 on webb and j marts bike they were rumours of that bike being a cheater bike..
Ok 2:34 is where im out🖕
$5,000 of Titanium parts later... just to save 10 lbs..
Could be the difference between 3rd place and 2st place.
I mean it wouldn't be worth it to me
@@chrisvids1820 Now I wonder how much replacing the fork springs with Titanium springs would cost. Titanium springs are lighter, have a higher frequency response and improved suspension dynamics... Titanium is less dense and also has a lower shear modulus than steel, approximately two times lower, making titanium twice as "springy" as steel. Spring deflection for titanium springs is also higher than steel springs, meaning titanium springs require less active coils than comparable steel units. Now off to find some Ti springs for 41mm fork tubes...
@thetruthserum2816 pretty cool. My mind was blown when I rode my bike after it had been resprung/shimed for my weight. Definitely allowed me to ride faster.
Let me know how that ti respring goes
‘The best part is no part’ - Elon Musk
Honda bikes are cheating and paying AMA 😂
Not even remotely true must be a Cooksey fan.
Massive Fan Madman 🤠🦘🤠🤠🦘🤠🤠🦘🤠🤠🦘🤠
Bit of a clickbait title!
❤🎉
😂😂😂 noooooo never