the rifles purpose/role/sop dictates ammunition choice as the weapons role dictates use. 855 has great barrier penetration characteristics and is 100% suitable for a general purpose fighting role. I've never seen a wound from 855 (and honestly 5.56 in general) under 200m that wasn't pretty horrific. None of these youtube gunslingers has ever or will ever regularly engage targets past 25yds, especially the weirdos who are obsessed with the home defense/boog fantasy. Yes there are more effective rounds but the cost is almost prohibitively expensive to stockpile in current year. The best round is the round you have a lot of. Period. The only thing that wins firefights is fire superiority, nothing else.
Good info! Seems having a few mags of several different rounds would work, Hornady has some varmint rounds with a dragster motor on the box! Will have to check for t shirt!
Boy there's a lot wrong with your statement. None of these "youtube gunslingers" would be shooting someone at more than 25-50 yards if things in this country remain the same. They will NOT remain the same. What the change will be no one can say for sure but it is possible to be stuck in some kind of urban warfare situation. You should read Selco Begovich's book about his experiences surviving the Bosnian war as a civilian. People were def take shots way past 50 yards. Lastly, no, fire superiority is not the only thing that wins firefights. That's just stupid fudd thing to say. Tactics, experience, technology, types of armaments, numbers, mental preparedness, planning, all effect the fight. Imagine you can maneuver and bound well against an opponent that doesn't know how to do that well, or have NVG and they don't, you have drones with thermal and they don't, or you are mentally more capable and come up with a plan to surprise and flank the enemy, those things matter. And they can matter more than fire superiority.
I spent 23 years in the ARMY my last 13 years I was was with the 160th SOAR(A). I have a hella ton of greentip for SHTF. Now with that said a lot of the customers we supported showed us how to use the 62 gr greentip effectively with the zipper drill. After an incident took place in Afghanistan we were issued the MK-262 77gr OTM. I reload my ammo now and as close as possible my recipe for 77gr OTM's is what we used in the 160th. If anyone is using a 20" barrel all I have to say is it will make a canoe rack big enough for a ski boat. I have no problem thinning out the doe population on my property at 3 to 4 hundred meters. Great video sorry for the long rant.
Willing to give the recipe here or is it in any of the reloading books. I think one of the RUclipsrs, Johnnys reloading came close. I was just wondering what you’re using. If you don’t mind.
In shtf, Whatever ammo you have on hand is the best ammo to use. But if you’re smart and are stacking, then you’re ahead of the game as you’re likely getting a bunch of range ammo and also getting a bunch quality/match ammo
The case for M855 (Green Tip) Here's why you should choose green tip: 1. Economics/Price For a few cents more you can step up from 55 grain to 62 grain. Grain weight matters. It helps with stability and energy transfer. Obviously 77 grain is better in regards to grain weight. But, at 2 to 3 times the cost. So when you compare cost/weight/performance it is hard to beat the green tip. 2. Barrier penetration - it matters. Trench, you are concerned about over penetration in a home defence environment. I agree. Thats why they make shotguns. But, there are situations where it makes sense to pick up your AR. In these scenarios you have 2 main concerns; your zombie hides behind cover, or your zombie hides behind cover while wearing armor. Now take a moment to properly understand your needs in regards to barrier penetration. Historically we lost approximately 50 million people during WW2. But, during the 20th century more than 100 million people were rounded up by thier own governments and executed. Bring this last case scenario into the 21st century and we have government agencies that are fully armed and armored to military standard. So your zombies wearing armor and hiding behind cover is, sadly, not the result of an overactive imagination. Now think only a few months/years into the future. We have already invented AI. And we are already prototyping humanoid robots for combat missions. The next fight might leave you having to shoot through thier metal body to destroy thier battery/power core. Also, not the product of an over active imagination. 3. Ice Picking There is a world of difference between ballistic results involving soft tissue tagets and ice picking through armor. If you are shooting deer then pick any soft point varmint round that dumps energy into soft tissue. If you are shooting armored targets then ice pick away. In fact, shoot them 10 more times. It will speed up the bleedout. It's ok, and effective. 4. Lets address that M855a1 again. It breakes bolts. It burns out barrels. It compromises the accuracy of your rifle. 5. Lastly, actual armor penetration. Most people don't actually have level 4. Many run level 3 or 3+. And out of these 3/3+ armor setups, it is not uncommon for the 5.56 rating to only go up to 2900fps on fair armor; 3250 fps on good armor. Combine this with a single vs triple shot guarantee and find that green tip can be effectively paired with longer barrels and multiple shots to overcome the coverage/protection provided by modern armor. So M855 becomes a performer at an economical cost with benefits of being able to engage barriers/armor without the drawbacks associated with M855a1. Hope that helps, Phil edit: FWIW I run a 18inch barrel specifically to push that green tip to the leading edge of performance/penetration. It's a combination that works well.
I have an IAR/LSW style ar with a 20" barrel that I pretty much only use m855 in for those exact reasons. In a machine gun type role, m855 is actually pretty good as it goes through things pretty well. I use 55gr in my more generalist rifle cause I can stack it deep
Good points, but if you are shooting a robot aim for the sensors, they are not possible to armor effectively. Combat robots will def have armor anywhere they can put it. I'd say shoot the motor, but that's probably going to be armored, along with the battery etc. Also molotov cocktails will work well on robots, at least in the near future.
Oh also, it depends what kind of 3+ armor they are running. The stuff I use can eat green tips all day because there is no ceramic, only polyethylene and some other materials. It can and will stop m855a1 as well. I love the stuff, I run a 3A backer with it because it so light the weight is not an issue. It's probably not as good as level 4, but the greatly reduced weight is worth it imo.
"Go shoot a deer with your MK18, actually don't." 🤣🤣🤣 Trench accidentally gave horrible advice (in a sarcastic way), and realized someone may actually be dumb enough to take it, and immediately corrected himself. Priceless.
I've taken several deer with a 20" M16 but wouldn't recommend it on anything larger than 150lbs. Every time i recover a bullet I'm reminded how small it is by the base. Literally just a .22 with extra powder and noise.
@@SuspiciousGanymede yeah, I've taken deer with my 20" AR. You can definitely take a deer with 5.56, but I wouldn't even think about trying with a 10.5". That's just a terrible idea, not enough velocity, unless you're close and can get a head shot with 77 grain or 75 grain. It's just something I wouldn't even try from a strictly ethics perspective.
80 year old grandma has home intruder... Perp proceeds to shoot her 4 times with a 9mm... meanwhile she dives for her couch where a 357 is hidden and shoots intruder twice... She lives to tell the story... the perp took a dirt nap.... Boise Idaho just a few weeks ago. Com'on man !
Don't use the term perp...it makes you sound like one of the fat tacticool guys who never leaves their couch, with a mustache and Doritos stains all over your shirt.
85 year old Grandma took out a man who was one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children at one time in past. A real mental case who had a grudge against her from the past. The guy emptied a magazine into her and she survived. She shot him twice with one round right through the heart.
Before I watch the video. M193 is my go to. Here is why. Nose heavy. @3000 fps it smacks soft tissue and there’s no telling what that round is going to do. One thing is for certain. It compares to a blender. In a sort of way. Two. It’s cheap and dependable. Over penetration? I don’t know what that is. Last I know the feds don’t have a gel test for rifle rounds the same as handgun rounds. (All rifles “over penetrate.”) m193 loses velocity rapidly after it enters, so that helps. There is a bypass to armor. It’s called the pelvis. You break that and legs stop working. Now they’re flat and bullets can travel the entire length of body. Even if not flat. That’s a vulnerable position.
@@shawnmurphy4069 They call it the fatal funnel for a reason. Anything that you can do to slow them down, or alert you upon their entry will only help you. Doors leading to the outside world should be barred like castle doors of old. One kick will not do it, if done right, send that calf bone out the side of the leg. That door ain’t moving and they haven’t even entered yet and are already injured… do you wanna go inside?
Amazon sells braces to put a 2×4 across the door. Good luck getting thru that door without a breaching charge! I train for the first shots to the pelvis anyways with all the body armor these days. Once they're down and screaming then I can assess the total threat and engage accordingly.
My personal top 5 for 556N Ammo / Bullets for HD / SHTF are... 1. Black Hills MK 262 Mod 1. This can be used for virtually anything 2 or 4 legged and also is excellent precision round.. 2. Black Hills 77g TMK.. TMK has slighly higher BC and its external and terminal Ballistics are phenomenal. Same as MK262 good all around usage.. 3. Black Hills 70g TSX / TTSX . Barnes TSX bullets hit super hard and do insane damage . There is a reason why it's up there with some of the best game bullets.. 4. Hornady 75g Interlock. This is mainly for shorty 556n in HD / CQB environments. I would not use this past 50Y but damn it performs extremely well.. 5. AAC 69G or 77G OTM , SMK , or TMK. Best bang for you buck with all around Performance. Their daily deals you can get this almost for the same price as 55g FMJ..
I want to try that Hornady Black 75 SBR in the worst way out of a 12.5 with a can while NODed up. Tbf, IMI 77 otm does a good enough job at a lower price-point. But that interlock, when it works, *works*
@@hateferlife Yeah any Sierra OTM is freaking solid . Hornady TAP is also pretty legit as well . Hornady , Barnes and Sierra make outstanding all around usage bullets . Frontier / Hornady 68g or 75g BTHP perform extremely well . 75g Interlock is devastating when it impacts.
@@investigativeoutcomes9343 The human body has roughly 3,000 square inches of surface area. If they're wearing front and back 10x12 plates, that area shrinks to 2,760 square inches of vulnerable flesh. That's a reduction of less than 10%, and nobody is wearing level 4 face shields or cups. Give 'em the ol' Clint Smith treatment. You can't tourniquet the taint.
@@AncientMorbidity1991 yep, they are... i just got done loading 700 rounds of hornady 55gr soft points for defensive use and did some testing. Those sps are absolutely brutal. it was ripping milk jugs apart at 200 yards and i was getting 1.1" groups out of every gun. used them with 20" for deer, all the cousins used them as well in their ars. The 77gr sierras/ mk 262 clones were at half an inch but triple the price to load. I loaded maybe 150 before i realized those hornadys were better for my applications. $11 for 100 projos vs $30. Everything is a trade off. I will try hornadys 75 gr bthp next and see if thats a possible substitute. If you can afford $1.50 per round for the real deal black hills or even the imi knockoff ( i think BH only sell them in 500 round cases anymore) that should be your go to round. However if your a poor like most of us these days m855, m193 will work fine. Better yet start handloading. If you cant take advantage of the benifits the mk262 gives you, like extreme accuracy, extended range, temp stable and low flash powder, dont worry if all youve got is m855 or m193. That stuff is still brutal. Unless YOU can actually shoot half inch groups or run nightvision and supressors or travel from wisconsin to florida and dont want to rezero your gun every time because the temp difference then you probrably dont need mk262.... though it is the king, as stated earlier.
High dollar ballistic tips and soft points for home defense/self defense/duty use 556 m855 green tip and m193 good for the stockpile and some hog/pest hunting All the cheaper 223 options for training and fun 75s 77s for precision/distance work The cheapest get shot first and the most expensive are the least likely to actually be used
For those who may wonder how you can confirm some of this information, you can apply some basic physics knowledge and be knowledgeable about gel tests. First things first. You're not gonna consistently get rifle wounding characteristics (commonly known as hydrostatic shock) from a projectile moving slower than 2500fps. Keep that in mind, and read your ballistics chart to see what a given loading is doing from a given barrel length at a given distance. Now on to learning to read ballistics gel. The three important things to look for are the length of the neck of the wound tract, the amount of fragmentation, and the deformation of the projectile/wound tract. If the neck of a wound channel is consistently long in gel, that round has a tendency to ice pick. Fragmentation is an indication of a projectile breaking apart and making a more complex wound which also indicates more damage. Complex wound tracts occur when a projectile fragments and deforms, and like I previously said, indicates more damage to a target. That being said, I think the list needs to be a bit longer and changed up a bit. 1. M855A1. Phenominal wounding because of the three piece construction. The base of the bullet fragments almost instantly. The primary penetrator does great through light armor/cover and yaws immediately. The internal penetrator gets you all the way through a threat. It's spectacular. It's the best all purpose round. 2. OTM/BTHP. Like TG said, phenomenal wounding in most barrel lengths. However, it does have a reputation for occasionally ice picking. The design has accuracy as a priority, and the wounding is just a happy little accident. That being said, great at most all ranges. Wonderful for home defense. 3. Medium weight soft point. Excelent out of a short barrel, more barrier blind than OTM, more consistant wounding than OTM. However, it does nothing to armor. OTM does more to armor. Not as well rounded as OTM, but a phenomenal choice for home defense. 4. M193 for all.the reasons TG said. Shit rips, but is barrel length dependent. Usually has a short neck given enough barrel length, and fragments like crazy on top of yawing like crazy. 5. M855. Shit's cheap, shit penetrates, shit can keep heads down. Wounding is similar to M193 if the threat isnt starving or child sized. It can and will fuck things up, just not as reliably as all the other rounds in my list.
Brent 0331 said everyone he saw get hit with a green tip during the GWOT is in the dirt. That is good enough for me. I believe m855 was developed for better barrier penetration. 55 grain is excellent against meat targets. Armored targets not so much but you pretty much said that.
That combo helped a lot of recruits that had never seen a rifle hit a target at 500 yds. I hit some bulls at 200 offhand and the Senior DI said something almost nice, might have been the last time too!
OTM isn't primarily intended to function as a hollow point; the purpose of the open tip is to create a little air pocket in the front that improves accuracy. Sometimes it may expand like a hollow point, sometimes it wont. But either way your're getting much more mass down range than with 55gr. There are some soft-point options worth considering as well.
I use 77 gr Black Hills and IWI for home defense. Expansion starts at approximately 2”! And the exit wound is 2-3 times larger than 855. I totally agree with you and definitely a great video! Thank you!
Glad u gave PSA a shout out ive been looking at there new Sabre Blade ammo, nice defensive rounds in all weights for a good price. Also there AAC OTM are awesome. I saw a video of there 75gn OTM shoot .60 MOA.
The Sabre black tip shoots really well out of my rifles. 55gr and 62gr, so well in fact, that is what I stock pile for training/competition/defense ammo (about 1.5-2 moa). Then the 77gr otm and 69gr otm for distance shooting(about 1-1.5 moa). Still get some pmc xtac 55gr and 62gr gt because it's cheap and accurate enough out of a couple rifles, but the black tip stuff shoots really nice and for not much more. Their 55gr fmj runs hot also. Faster than lake city out of my 16", but not as accurate/good of groups.(about 2.5 moa LC vs 4 moa AAC) Their 62gr fmj, however, my criterion barrel likes a lot (1 moa).
From what I seen, the 55 and 62 grain Sabres vaporize, coming apart like a varmint round with shallow penetration. The 75 seems to do better in core penetration
M193 with a 20" goes through NIJ level III steel plates, but not UHMWPE. M855 can defeat UHMWPE, but not steel. M855A1 can do both just fine, even with shorter barrels. That stuff is wild
@keres993 I run 3+ steel, that I fully trust, with a kevlar spall sleeve. I really want to get away from this though and find something that is maybe 2/3 lbs lighter and not gonna cost me a mortgage payment
I load up for Home Defense with Federal Fusion 63 grain lead tip. I’ve seen what it does in whitetail deer and I’m completely satisfied. I also make a hand load that’s almost identical using Sierra Game King bullet. I’ve loaded hundreds and hundreds of these for the ammo box.
Im former Army Infantry. I was in uniform in 2004 in Hawaii when an old man with a Battle of the Bulge hat on asked me if I was infantry. I said I was and he asked if we were still using that “pussy ass 5.56” I laughed and said yes. He said he had an M1 Garand in 30.06 if I hit a Nazi he didn’t get back up.
I use my sub 2k pcc in 9mm for home defense. It is pretty versatile. 5.56 is just a bit loud for me personally to feel good about shooting it indoors. 😊
there is a respect level for 18-20 in barrels shooting 55-62 grain. the speed coming off the round is crazy.. 55-62 hitting 3k + fps, is devastating but i use 77 grain under anything 16 or less. the speed is good the frag is great and the dmg is elite..
Yes I agree 55 grain is better for home defense than m855. I have some rounds that basically break apart entirely in the body, I would use that stuff for home defense. The only thing that will be exiting is fragments, with almost all the energy being delivered into the target. Your dog is awesome btw, always like to see youtubers pets randomly show up on camera.
Green tip is range ammo for shorter 1/7 twists…..ofc 77gr is what you should be stock piling. IF YOU have a 20” 1/12 old m16 it will blow shit up with 55gr otm or ball BUT you can only shoot that grain weight reliably.
I completely agree with everything you said in this vid. I stack m193 for a 14.7 rifle. If finances weren't a contraint I would stack 77otm. Between m193, m855a1 and 77otm , whatever result is needed ... those rounds nail it ( not including lightweight varmint rounds). Also agree m855 green tip is inferior... it's better than nothing... but it's inferior. I think a lot of people jumped on the m855 train when it was on clearance for a few years and two cents cheaper per round than m193. Also for a short while it was the only AR ammo available. Personally the performance that the extra 2 cents got me with the m193 made me easily stay with the m193.
My brother in law has m855 only because its all he could get at the time. Hes not super knowledgeable on ammo but i did clue him in on the m855 arguement and advised him to keep an eye out for 77gr OTMs and then zero his rifle for those.
I was a Marine in Fallujah, between the meth and green tip, alot of them walked away like zombies. I keep a couple hundred green tip around for in case situations but it is my least favorite
Nice breakdown. I'm betting that many of us have this conversation...often. I was literally going through this list (sans 855a1). Maybe I think your comparison is spot on because I agree with all, but experience and research have led me to the same conclusions. I split 855a1's spot between 75gr BTHP and 55gr SP.
You ask what I run for home defense? 12 gauge 00 buck, and a 10mm with Underwood 180 grain gold dot on the shoulder holster. Semper Fi, YUT! And yes, I’m an 0311 1990’s Marine
these are my current options for home defense and in the context of non concrete apartment building with neighbors. 1. 55gr v-max rounds. The reason why “go watch garland thumb 556 penetration test” it penetrates the least but when tested in gel it has around 10ish inches of penetration so good for skinny people. 2. 77gr otm. Just awesome 3. 75gr bthp heavy hollow point 4. 68gr bthp less heavy 5. 55gr soft point. Seemed like something to pick up that could be nice. Tell me what y’all think. Bulking in the 77gr would be ideal
I run a suppressed 11.5” for HD so I have it loaded with Hornady Black 75gr SBR ammo. In my “SHTF” magazines I have 77gr OTM from PSA/AAC because it works well in all my AR’s from my 18” to 11.5”.
I use m855 because when I bought it, it was for a great price, it was lake city, and my rifle is pretty reliably around 2.5 moa with it. I also don't look to my rifle as my home defense as I live in an apartment and feel better and more confident using my handgun (9mm 135gr +p critical duty) with regards to distance and removing some of the worry for my neighbors. Though the only good way to make sure you don't hit neighbors is to hit the bad guy.
Just a regular old guy I have my AR 15 load with 64 gold dot, but moving to 75 gold dot, barrier blind and will expand at low FPS , I am told , never shot any person and never hunted with any 556
my personal 1.53gr CX Hormady tap 2. 75gr interlock SBR in shorties 3. 64gr SBSP 4. any Vmax loading 5. 69 ro 77 otm for diatance 6 Green tip is junk......... period Im with you on alot of things but 855 and 855a1 are not armor piercing unless the armor your referring to is russian helmets. None of its designed to defeat plate armor, it can but its not its job. 995 53 rungsten core now thats a different story. i would substite the fact that any al all heavy for caliber 68 to 77 OTM or BTHP are devastating on tissue but are absolute garbage through barriers
for ARs i stockpile 62gr Fusion MSR, good performance through glass, great performance on soft targets(nasty deer wounds), good performance through brush, its an expanding round HP so it'll petal very well at 400-450. Best all arounder IMO, not sacrificing a ton of speed either, still good MPBR. M855A1 is the only round I think is better but nonfeasable for stockpile, 62gr fusion MSR is a brown belt in everything. I don't like the "77gr hotness", too slow for me, I like my long MPBR. If you havent heard of an Alpha Tarac, check it out, one of the best inventions for general purpose rifles in years-expanded MPBR and no holdovers up close, passive non-electronic.
Don’t forget about barrel twist with my 16” 1:7 I have to run at least 62 gr. When shooting beyond 100-150 yards 55 grain becomes pretty inconsistent as far as accuracy goes.
I'm surprised at how rare M995 ammo is and how there are basically no sellers to civilians. Tungsten carbide core ammunition cuts through plates like butter, so it would be a great thing to have around for SHTF. It seems like a hybrid between M855A1 and M995 would be incredible at defeating armored opponents: Tungsten carbide tip with multi-projectile slug.
I live in a state (HI) where ammo cant ship. (For those people who said you can, yeah sure, its possible but you'd be limited on amount of ammo and end up paying $200 more on specialized shipping for box of M855a plus, 223. OTM are $32 for a 20 round box here, it aint financially sound.) So stocking up on M855 and M193 is the way to go here without breaking the bank much. At least from what i know and see
My home defense is Black Hills Mk262. As far as M855, a good reason to have some outside of home defense is that I've found it to zero (POA/POI) with Hornady 5.56 (not .223) 68gr OTM (HPBT) and 5.56 69gr SMK. Though, you'll want to verify this through your rifle of course. So, now within the same loadout, you can run both (in different mags, obviously) for barrier penetration and terminal performance on soft targets without changing to a secondary zero. Hopefully that'll help some of you guys make your M855 more useful. Btw, another good round that does well against individuals from my experience is 70gr TSX (not cheap though). You'll need a 1:8 or faster twist rate, however. Where as with 77gr OTM, you only need 1:9 or faster, despite the common belief to the contrary. (For those who just got triggered and want to parrot the same arguments) I've run it through a 1:9, I've seen it run through multiple 1:9 rifles at over 600 yds very accurately, and Black Hills knows their own ammunition. If you own some, read the side of the box that says specifically 1:9 will stabilize it. I know someone will say "It'll stabilize it for (X yards) and then it will fly off in a random direction", but this just isn't true. I know some people get very impressed with ex SOF/Gov't contractors/PMCs who are now doing their thing online, but as someone who also did that work, I prefer correct information, rather than appeal to authority. Feel free to watch some of the videos of this being the case, and testing it for yourself. Good science is verifiable, falsifiable, and repeatable. (The end. Either go try it, go watch others proving you wrong, or stay willfully wrong.) I know that's a bunch of detail, but if I didn't add it, I would get those annoying arguments from people who are just repeating something they heard from someone they look up to. So, for the rest of you, I apologize.
855 is just fine for the pile. 77 OTM from IMI is about the cheapest I'd go for that config. Both have the added benefit of having sealed necks and primers, which are also staked. HD use is a specific use case and your tools should be vetted for function here, zero malfunctions being the goal. GtoW is another set of issues, I'd defer to compatibility above all else there (855 advantage?). A1 is a beast, but as you said, I believe the accelerated wear and cost are prohibitive for most people. A couple years back people looking for that performance I'd have steered'm toward Mk318 or Bear Claw, but it seems those have all but disappeared. All that to say; do your homework, check function over various conditions (if you can), understand 'no tool is perfect', and hope you never havta....
My arsenal is mostly 55 grain, currently stocking various other weights: 64, 72, 77, because I have barrel lengths ranging from 8.5 to 10.3, 11.5, 12.5 and 16 inch..Thinking about going back to my M1 Garand and 150 grain 30:06 and my 1911a1 in The Lords caliber, because I want to win the war! LOL!....
Was just going through this in my head with my new DMR build. I wanted 62gr ammo that was NOT green tip because I had seen (in person and in videos) the 3MOA accuracy that seemed standard for the round. But I found the Fiocchi 62gr FMJBT flying at 3000FPS in a 16" barrel according to their tests. Mine will be out of an 18" barrel with 1:8 twist. Also picked up some 75gr Hornady black yesterday. Just gotta buy the scope to go on it and I'll do some accuracy testing.
There is more to life than the ammunition that he mentioned. All of the ammunition mentioned are military rounds. The military is restricted to certain ammunition, a citizen of the United States is not. Choose wisely. Check out Uncle Freedoms video titled, "Top 10 Rifle Defensive Ammos and My Thoughts."
I dont think I heard you bring up TUI rounds. How do they compare to the m855 and m193? I know they're like double the price per round but how do they compare when it comes to barriers, armor, and heavy clothing?
I keep mags of green tip and hollows If I need to disable a vehicle or body armor I go to green tip Self defense I go to hollows It all depends on what situation you might be in
dude. Check out the XM556FBIt3 62gr 5.56 bonded soft point developed for fbi. There’s a civilian/LEO .223 load with the same projectile and nickel case but the 5.56 is incredible. Also you gotta check out AAC’s 75gr saber blade black tip, that’s my go-to round for my 14.5” gp rifle setup. About .75 moa and 0.50 cents per round. Basically AAC’s version of the Black Hills TMK (holy grail of 5.56 ammo - look up the Black hills 77gr TMK!!!) Of course the 70gr tsx aka “socom brown-tip” is worth checking out too. Great video, thanks for the upload. Another thing about m855a1 is it really wears out shorter gun parts quick. They’re getting well over recommended chamber pressures so it makes sense but damn they are hot
There are a lot of good rounds out there for 556. 55 grain Vmax great for short barrels actually having good terminal performance and more of an urban area but barriers it sucks. 556 hunting ammo like federal fusion or gold dot, good for taking deer. 62 grain TSX bullet, great for lethality reasons and good penetration but is very much a velocity dependent round.
IMI 77 gr. Razor Core. Leaves 3" exit wounds and shoots postage stamp size groups at 100 yards. I've been doing this for 55 years now.... I think I have some idea what to use.... for any of my rifles. Rate of twist is extremely important to , at least it was for Eugene Stoner
im going to recommend the primary arms evolve long stroke piston. is there a 7.62x51 chamber in a 12.5 edition of this? for home defense of course because nothing says get off my lawn like 180gr of don't mess with Texas.
M193 actually has more penetrating power against steel than m855 both out of a 16” barrel. This is due to higher velocity. Just wanted to point that out.
Love wheel guns and appreciate the ammo info. have 2k 193 that I thought I'd use for plinking only and save the green tip, now I may have to reconsider.
My newest EDC is the Sig XTen Comp. with Underwood ammo 140 gr xtreme penetrator..will defeat body armor up to 75 yds..amazing gun. with recoil that equals 9 mm! You gotta try one Trench..amazing accuracy with red dot to 75 yds!....also why 62 gr green tips are bad..they are less accurate snd tend to key hole more quickly due to their unbalanced weight distribution...with the center penetrating rod.....77gr 556 is my choice. for up to 300 yd kill range.
A varmit round works really well in a " over penetration sensitive environment" it was issued to hostage rescue entities for retaking an airliner, or bus or other " linear assault" it works fine on soft body armor, not at all on hard armor. Sheetrock will break up the round. Not better or worse, but a choice.
Had someone tell me the stuff I’m buying isn’t defense ammo…. I said ok. Go stand over there and let’s see what happens? He said “what” .. His friends laughed and said lead will thump anyone…
I have 250 rounds of both m855 and m193. I think its pretty solid i have one full combat load out for both me and my roommate and we and an additional 80 on top so we should be good to go until we get a “loot drop”
🪂 green tip, would love to get m855a1 but it’s been elusive I don’t use this for home defense … that said you were my motive for swapping my home defense to semi auto shotgun loaded with 00 buck
Does any company load 855a1 for civilian consumption? I personally like m855 especially good ammo that’s loaded properly. Good m855 out of a full length barrel is a really accurate round. I did 2 tours in Afghanistan and found it to be up to the task within its intended range. Honestly though I think most people are best off stockpiling 55gr 193 because almost every ar shoots it well and its devastating on soft targets. Going the proper velocities 193 fragments and has a core that punches 12 to 13 inches very reliably. It’s a solid choice for most uses. I do enjoy the 77gr rounds as well they are great for extending the range of a 556.
M193 going at adequate velocity(2500min 3000optimal) will yaw *and* shatter on impact generating large temporary and permanent wound cavity, lower velocities wont fragment reliably but should still yaw and do plenty of nasty things
Gold Dot55 gr $496/500 rds. 100% reliable. No overpenetration. There are better rounds(Underwood Controlled Chaos) but too expensive to stack. Have some for inside the house fighting, but Gold Dot for outside.
Most of my 556 is AAC 77gr otm. With the performance I've seen from it and the price I see no reason to buy M193 anymore. I also have the AAC 77gr SMK which is what I'm using for home defense and what I zero my rifles to.
I bought my first M193 ammo last week! Previously I only used M855 ammo, but I decided to try a lighter 55gr bullet to better match my barrel's (slow) 1 in 9 twist
If someone who is wearing plates gets hit by 55gr or 77gr will the force of the impact on the plate at 200-300 yards take them out of the fight for a time? Or will they be able to brush it off and keep going?
That revolver handle is that just stock or? I like how it's thick some of them handles are just to thin looks like you can get a good hold on that deal
the rifles purpose/role/sop dictates ammunition choice as the weapons role dictates use. 855 has great barrier penetration characteristics and is 100% suitable for a general purpose fighting role. I've never seen a wound from 855 (and honestly 5.56 in general) under 200m that wasn't pretty horrific. None of these youtube gunslingers has ever or will ever regularly engage targets past 25yds, especially the weirdos who are obsessed with the home defense/boog fantasy. Yes there are more effective rounds but the cost is almost prohibitively expensive to stockpile in current year. The best round is the round you have a lot of. Period. The only thing that wins firefights is fire superiority, nothing else.
Good info! Seems having a few mags of several different rounds would work, Hornady has some varmint rounds with a dragster motor on the box! Will have to check for t shirt!
@@edvvardcash6109here here, we can barely keep food in the house, spending $400 every two weeks for 3 people is ridiculous at least for us!,,
Boy there's a lot wrong with your statement. None of these "youtube gunslingers" would be shooting someone at more than 25-50 yards if things in this country remain the same. They will NOT remain the same. What the change will be no one can say for sure but it is possible to be stuck in some kind of urban warfare situation. You should read Selco Begovich's book about his experiences surviving the Bosnian war as a civilian. People were def take shots way past 50 yards. Lastly, no, fire superiority is not the only thing that wins firefights. That's just stupid fudd thing to say. Tactics, experience, technology, types of armaments, numbers, mental preparedness, planning, all effect the fight. Imagine you can maneuver and bound well against an opponent that doesn't know how to do that well, or have NVG and they don't, you have drones with thermal and they don't, or you are mentally more capable and come up with a plan to surprise and flank the enemy, those things matter. And they can matter more than fire superiority.
Nailed it...
Wrong accuracy wins fire fights
I spent 23 years in the ARMY my last 13 years I was was with the 160th SOAR(A). I have a hella ton of greentip for SHTF. Now with that said a lot of the customers we supported showed us how to use the 62 gr greentip effectively with the zipper drill. After an incident took place in Afghanistan we were issued the MK-262 77gr OTM. I reload my ammo now and as close as possible my recipe for 77gr OTM's is what we used in the 160th. If anyone is using a 20" barrel all I have to say is it will make a canoe rack big enough for a ski boat. I have no problem thinning out the doe population on my property at 3 to 4 hundred meters. Great video sorry for the long rant.
Willing to give the recipe here or is it in any of the reloading books. I think one of the RUclipsrs, Johnnys reloading came close. I was just wondering what you’re using. If you don’t mind.
Try 25.2 gr of Accurate 2520, LC case and Winchester SRP
@@Kodeeni thanks. Going in the journal. I will give this a go.
@@tufelhunden5795
Im getting sub minute in my .223 Wylde, oh by the way I seat the bullets to function threw a P-mag
In shtf, Whatever ammo you have on hand is the best ammo to use.
But if you’re smart and are stacking, then you’re ahead of the game as you’re likely getting a bunch of range ammo and also getting a bunch quality/match ammo
ruclips.net/video/w1abQHhjgp4/видео.htmlsi=I3ey1G55AN3fkVFJ
I have thousands of rounds saved. 5k brown tips, 5k 77g black hills, 8k m193
The case for M855 (Green Tip)
Here's why you should choose green tip:
1. Economics/Price
For a few cents more you can step up from 55 grain to 62 grain. Grain weight matters. It helps with stability and energy transfer.
Obviously 77 grain is better in regards to grain weight. But, at 2 to 3 times the cost.
So when you compare cost/weight/performance it is hard to beat the green tip.
2. Barrier penetration - it matters.
Trench, you are concerned about over penetration in a home defence environment. I agree. Thats why they make shotguns. But, there are situations where it makes sense to pick up your AR. In these scenarios you have 2 main concerns; your zombie hides behind cover, or your zombie hides behind cover while wearing armor.
Now take a moment to properly understand your needs in regards to barrier penetration.
Historically we lost approximately 50 million people during WW2. But, during the 20th century more than 100 million people were rounded up by thier own governments and executed. Bring this last case scenario into the 21st century and we have government agencies that are fully armed and armored to military standard. So your zombies wearing armor and hiding behind cover is, sadly, not the result of an overactive imagination.
Now think only a few months/years into the future. We have already invented AI. And we are already prototyping humanoid robots for combat missions. The next fight might leave you having to shoot through thier metal body to destroy thier battery/power core. Also, not the product of an over active imagination.
3. Ice Picking
There is a world of difference between ballistic results involving soft tissue tagets and ice picking through armor.
If you are shooting deer then pick any soft point varmint round that dumps energy into soft tissue.
If you are shooting armored targets then ice pick away. In fact, shoot them 10 more times. It will speed up the bleedout. It's ok, and effective.
4. Lets address that M855a1 again.
It breakes bolts. It burns out barrels. It compromises the accuracy of your rifle.
5. Lastly, actual armor penetration. Most people don't actually have level 4. Many run level 3 or 3+. And out of these 3/3+ armor setups, it is not uncommon for the 5.56 rating to only go up to 2900fps on fair armor; 3250 fps on good armor. Combine this with a single vs triple shot guarantee and find that green tip can be effectively paired with longer barrels and multiple shots to overcome the coverage/protection provided by modern armor.
So M855 becomes a performer at an economical cost with benefits of being able to engage barriers/armor without the drawbacks associated with M855a1.
Hope that helps,
Phil
edit: FWIW I run a 18inch barrel specifically to push that green tip to the leading edge of performance/penetration. It's a combination that works well.
I have an IAR/LSW style ar with a 20" barrel that I pretty much only use m855 in for those exact reasons. In a machine gun type role, m855 is actually pretty good as it goes through things pretty well.
I use 55gr in my more generalist rifle cause I can stack it deep
You hit this debate with the most facts and most realistic scenarios. BRAVO!!
Great info and a good read haha. Thank you. 1 more point for green tip.
Good points, but if you are shooting a robot aim for the sensors, they are not possible to armor effectively. Combat robots will def have armor anywhere they can put it. I'd say shoot the motor, but that's probably going to be armored, along with the battery etc. Also molotov cocktails will work well on robots, at least in the near future.
Oh also, it depends what kind of 3+ armor they are running. The stuff I use can eat green tips all day because there is no ceramic, only polyethylene and some other materials. It can and will stop m855a1 as well. I love the stuff, I run a 3A backer with it because it so light the weight is not an issue. It's probably not as good as level 4, but the greatly reduced weight is worth it imo.
"Go shoot a deer with your MK18, actually don't." 🤣🤣🤣
Trench accidentally gave horrible advice (in a sarcastic way), and realized someone may actually be dumb enough to take it, and immediately corrected himself.
Priceless.
Did my post get deleted?
@@thepracticalrifleman don't know, this is the only post I see.
lol I noticed that too, I use the deer standard. If I would not consider popping a deer with that round, I would not use it to defend myself with.
I've taken several deer with a 20" M16 but wouldn't recommend it on anything larger than 150lbs.
Every time i recover a bullet I'm reminded how small it is by the base. Literally just a .22 with extra powder and noise.
@@SuspiciousGanymede yeah, I've taken deer with my 20" AR.
You can definitely take a deer with 5.56, but I wouldn't even think about trying with a 10.5". That's just a terrible idea, not enough velocity, unless you're close and can get a head shot with 77 grain or 75 grain.
It's just something I wouldn't even try from a strictly ethics perspective.
80 year old grandma has home intruder... Perp proceeds to shoot her 4 times with a 9mm... meanwhile she dives for her couch where a 357 is hidden and shoots intruder twice... She lives to tell the story... the perp took a dirt nap....
Boise Idaho just a few weeks ago.
Com'on man !
My good man, there are several inaccuracies with your retelling of this particular story.
Shit that didn't happen award 🏅
It wasn’t Boise, Bingham county probably by Pocatello or Post falls Idaho
Don't use the term perp...it makes you sound like one of the fat tacticool guys who never leaves their couch, with a mustache and Doritos stains all over your shirt.
85 year old Grandma took out a man who was one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children at one time in past. A real mental case who had a grudge against her from the past. The guy emptied a magazine into her and she survived. She shot him twice with one round right through the heart.
Before I watch the video. M193 is my go to. Here is why.
Nose heavy. @3000 fps it smacks soft tissue and there’s no telling what that round is going to do. One thing is for certain. It compares to a blender. In a sort of way.
Two. It’s cheap and dependable.
Over penetration? I don’t know what that is. Last I know the feds don’t have a gel test for rifle rounds the same as handgun rounds. (All rifles “over penetrate.”) m193 loses velocity rapidly after it enters, so that helps.
There is a bypass to armor. It’s called the pelvis. You break that and legs stop working. Now they’re flat and bullets can travel the entire length of body. Even if not flat. That’s a vulnerable position.
Effective and affordable is an awesome combination. Being able to zero and practice with what's always in my rifle is a BIG plus.
Not to mention the screaming and blocking the rest of the stack....
@@shawnmurphy4069 They call it the fatal funnel for a reason. Anything that you can do to slow them down, or alert you upon their entry will only help you. Doors leading to the outside world should be barred like castle doors of old. One kick will not do it, if done right, send that calf bone out the side of the leg. That door ain’t moving and they haven’t even entered yet and are already injured… do you wanna go inside?
Amazon sells braces to put a 2×4 across the door. Good luck getting thru that door without a breaching charge! I train for the first shots to the pelvis anyways with all the body armor these days. Once they're down and screaming then I can assess the total threat and engage accordingly.
I completely agree with the pelvis as the target area. That’s my bullseye on any threat 100 plus out.
I love that you mentioned keeping your barrel at or above 14.5" with m193. Its really great as long as it has enough barrel to get going fast.
My personal top 5 for 556N Ammo / Bullets for HD / SHTF are...
1. Black Hills MK 262 Mod 1.
This can be used for virtually anything 2 or 4 legged and also is excellent precision round..
2. Black Hills 77g TMK..
TMK has slighly higher BC and its external and terminal Ballistics are phenomenal. Same as MK262 good all around usage..
3. Black Hills 70g TSX / TTSX .
Barnes TSX bullets hit super hard and do insane damage . There is a reason why it's up there with some of the best game bullets..
4. Hornady 75g Interlock.
This is mainly for shorty 556n in HD / CQB environments. I would not use this past 50Y but damn it performs extremely well..
5. AAC 69G or 77G OTM , SMK , or TMK. Best bang for you buck with all around Performance. Their daily deals you can get this almost for the same price as 55g FMJ..
I want to try that Hornady Black 75 SBR in the worst way out of a 12.5 with a can while NODed up. Tbf, IMI 77 otm does a good enough job at a lower price-point.
But that interlock, when it works, *works*
@@hateferlife Yeah any Sierra OTM is freaking solid .
Hornady TAP is also pretty legit as well .
Hornady , Barnes and Sierra make outstanding all around usage bullets . Frontier / Hornady 68g or 75g BTHP perform extremely well .
75g Interlock is devastating when it impacts.
And I wouldn’t sleep on soft point in 55/62/64gr. Pretty devastating on unarmored critters.
no 5.56 round will penetrate level 4, might as well use m193
@@investigativeoutcomes9343 The human body has roughly 3,000 square inches of surface area. If they're wearing front and back 10x12 plates, that area shrinks to 2,760 square inches of vulnerable flesh. That's a reduction of less than 10%, and nobody is wearing level 4 face shields or cups. Give 'em the ol' Clint Smith treatment. You can't tourniquet the taint.
M193 is king 👑
77 grain match KINGS! 👑
@@AncientMorbidity1991 yep, they are... i just got done loading 700 rounds of hornady 55gr soft points for defensive use and did some testing. Those sps are absolutely brutal. it was ripping milk jugs apart at 200 yards and i was getting 1.1" groups out of every gun. used them with 20" for deer, all the cousins used them as well in their ars. The 77gr sierras/ mk 262 clones were at half an inch but triple the price to load. I loaded maybe 150 before i realized those hornadys were better for my applications. $11 for 100 projos vs $30. Everything is a trade off. I will try hornadys 75 gr bthp next and see if thats a possible substitute. If you can afford $1.50 per round for the real deal black hills or even the imi knockoff ( i think BH only sell them in 500 round cases anymore) that should be your go to round. However if your a poor like most of us these days m855, m193 will work fine. Better yet start handloading. If you cant take advantage of the benifits the mk262 gives you, like extreme accuracy, extended range, temp stable and low flash powder, dont worry if all youve got is m855 or m193. That stuff is still brutal. Unless YOU can actually shoot half inch groups or run nightvision and supressors or travel from wisconsin to florida and dont want to rezero your gun every time because the temp difference then you probrably dont need mk262.... though it is the king, as stated earlier.
High dollar ballistic tips and soft points for home defense/self defense/duty use
556 m855 green tip and m193 good for the stockpile and some hog/pest hunting
All the cheaper 223 options for training and fun
75s 77s for precision/distance work
The cheapest get shot first and the most expensive are the least likely to actually be used
For those who may wonder how you can confirm some of this information, you can apply some basic physics knowledge and be knowledgeable about gel tests. First things first. You're not gonna consistently get rifle wounding characteristics (commonly known as hydrostatic shock) from a projectile moving slower than 2500fps. Keep that in mind, and read your ballistics chart to see what a given loading is doing from a given barrel length at a given distance. Now on to learning to read ballistics gel. The three important things to look for are the length of the neck of the wound tract, the amount of fragmentation, and the deformation of the projectile/wound tract. If the neck of a wound channel is consistently long in gel, that round has a tendency to ice pick. Fragmentation is an indication of a projectile breaking apart and making a more complex wound which also indicates more damage. Complex wound tracts occur when a projectile fragments and deforms, and like I previously said, indicates more damage to a target. That being said, I think the list needs to be a bit longer and changed up a bit.
1. M855A1. Phenominal wounding because of the three piece construction. The base of the bullet fragments almost instantly. The primary penetrator does great through light armor/cover and yaws immediately. The internal penetrator gets you all the way through a threat. It's spectacular. It's the best all purpose round.
2. OTM/BTHP. Like TG said, phenomenal wounding in most barrel lengths. However, it does have a reputation for occasionally ice picking. The design has accuracy as a priority, and the wounding is just a happy little accident. That being said, great at most all ranges. Wonderful for home defense.
3. Medium weight soft point. Excelent out of a short barrel, more barrier blind than OTM, more consistant wounding than OTM. However, it does nothing to armor. OTM does more to armor. Not as well rounded as OTM, but a phenomenal choice for home defense.
4. M193 for all.the reasons TG said. Shit rips, but is barrel length dependent. Usually has a short neck given enough barrel length, and fragments like crazy on top of yawing like crazy.
5. M855. Shit's cheap, shit penetrates, shit can keep heads down. Wounding is similar to M193 if the threat isnt starving or child sized. It can and will fuck things up, just not as reliably as all the other rounds in my list.
Brent 0331 said everyone he saw get hit with a green tip during the GWOT is in the dirt. That is good enough for me. I believe m855 was developed for better barrier penetration. 55 grain is excellent against meat targets. Armored targets not so much but you pretty much said that.
I'm a simple man
55gr and M16
That combo helped a lot of recruits that had never seen a rifle hit a target at 500 yds. I hit some bulls at 200 offhand and the Senior DI said something almost nice, might have been the last time too!
Your videos are very useful. Praise God for you, dude. Stay safe.
OTM isn't primarily intended to function as a hollow point; the purpose of the open tip is to create a little air pocket in the front that improves accuracy. Sometimes it may expand like a hollow point, sometimes it wont. But either way your're getting much more mass down range than with 55gr.
There are some soft-point options worth considering as well.
PSA won't ship to my state which makes me sad.
From what I have experienced with my 77 otm is that it’s outperformed other projectiles
I use 77 gr Black Hills and IWI for home defense. Expansion starts at approximately 2”! And the exit wound is 2-3 times larger than 855. I totally agree with you and definitely a great video! Thank you!
Glad u gave PSA a shout out ive been looking at there new Sabre Blade ammo, nice defensive rounds in all weights for a good price. Also there AAC OTM are awesome. I saw a video of there 75gn OTM shoot .60 MOA.
The Sabre black tip shoots really well out of my rifles. 55gr and 62gr, so well in fact, that is what I stock pile for training/competition/defense ammo (about 1.5-2 moa). Then the 77gr otm and 69gr otm for distance shooting(about 1-1.5 moa).
Still get some pmc xtac 55gr and 62gr gt because it's cheap and accurate enough out of a couple rifles, but the black tip stuff shoots really nice and for not much more. Their 55gr fmj runs hot also. Faster than lake city out of my 16", but not as accurate/good of groups.(about 2.5 moa LC vs 4 moa AAC) Their 62gr fmj, however, my criterion barrel likes a lot (1 moa).
From what I seen, the 55 and 62 grain Sabres vaporize, coming apart like a varmint round with shallow penetration. The 75 seems to do better in core penetration
Funny says 55 ain't for armor piercing, but it tends to smoke armor in every RUclips test.
Cause speed is key for armor. Especially out of 20
Within 100yards it’s smokes it
M193 with a 20" goes through NIJ level III steel plates, but not UHMWPE. M855 can defeat UHMWPE, but not steel. M855A1 can do both just fine, even with shorter barrels. That stuff is wild
@keres993 I run 3+ steel, that I fully trust, with a kevlar spall sleeve. I really want to get away from this though and find something that is maybe 2/3 lbs lighter and not gonna cost me a mortgage payment
I load up for Home Defense with Federal Fusion 63 grain lead tip. I’ve seen what it does in whitetail deer and I’m completely satisfied. I also make a hand load that’s almost identical using Sierra Game King bullet. I’ve loaded hundreds and hundreds of these for the ammo box.
🪂 Dad was a Devil in Baggy Pants from late 80s to late 90s, now he’s in the Guard all these years later
Im former Army Infantry. I was in uniform in 2004 in Hawaii when an old man with a Battle of the Bulge hat on asked me if I was infantry. I said I was and he asked if we were still using that “pussy ass 5.56” I laughed and said yes. He said he had an M1 Garand in 30.06 if I hit a Nazi he didn’t get back up.
I use my sub 2k pcc in 9mm for home defense. It is pretty versatile. 5.56 is just a bit loud for me personally to feel good about shooting it indoors. 😊
So, for a 1 second noise you want to defend your family with a pistol round? Glad I'm not your kid!
@robertgoodrich8953 better than shooting through someone and hitting a family member. So yes absolutely
there is a respect level for 18-20 in barrels shooting 55-62 grain. the speed coming off the round is crazy.. 55-62 hitting 3k + fps, is devastating
but i use 77 grain under anything 16 or less. the speed is good the frag is great and the dmg is elite..
IMI 77gr in my 12.5! Zeroed at 36 yards. Accurate and reliable
"Go shoot a deer with your mk18" -Trench Grenade
M193, m855, mk262, 75gr hornady tap. Let me add the 52gr tsx as a special bonus.
M855 is the worst load possible. Just get M193
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 m855 is decent target ammo that's about it.
@@G.W-01 Pretty much. Lake City brass is good to reload too.
Used 55gr in combat in x95 13 in barrel within 100yards. Dont lose sleep over it, double tap and its over.
My home defense go 2 is Hornady black 75 grain bthp or 62 grain fmj but there for defense as well.
Yes I agree 55 grain is better for home defense than m855. I have some rounds that basically break apart entirely in the body, I would use that stuff for home defense. The only thing that will be exiting is fragments, with almost all the energy being delivered into the target. Your dog is awesome btw, always like to see youtubers pets randomly show up on camera.
Thoughts on the 77 gr OTM out of a 16" barrel?
Thanks for the info on m855 vs m193 for general civilian defense purposes 👍
Green tip is range ammo for shorter 1/7 twists…..ofc 77gr is what you should be stock piling.
IF YOU have a 20” 1/12 old m16 it will blow shit up with 55gr otm or ball BUT you can only shoot that grain weight reliably.
agree 77 gr with 18 or 20 inch barrel for accurate kill shots to 300 yds
I completely agree with everything you said in this vid.
I stack m193 for a 14.7 rifle.
If finances weren't a contraint I would stack 77otm.
Between m193, m855a1 and 77otm , whatever result is needed ... those rounds nail it ( not including lightweight varmint rounds).
Also agree m855 green tip is inferior... it's better than nothing... but it's inferior.
I think a lot of people jumped on the m855 train when it was on clearance for a few years and two cents cheaper per round than m193. Also for a short while it was the only AR ammo available. Personally the performance that the extra 2 cents got me with the m193 made me easily stay with the m193.
You didnt talk about OTM bullet for house defense and what it was made of
Thanks bro really informative
My brother in law has m855 only because its all he could get at the time. Hes not super knowledgeable on ammo but i did clue him in on the m855 arguement and advised him to keep an eye out for 77gr OTMs and then zero his rifle for those.
you are very well informed on the ammo based on experience. no bullshit, straight facts. Subscribed.
I was a Marine in Fallujah, between the meth and green tip, alot of them walked away like zombies. I keep a couple hundred green tip around for in case situations but it is my least favorite
Nice breakdown. I'm betting that many of us have this conversation...often. I was literally going through this list (sans 855a1). Maybe I think your comparison is spot on because I agree with all, but experience and research have led me to the same conclusions. I split 855a1's spot between 75gr BTHP and 55gr SP.
You ask what I run for home defense? 12 gauge 00 buck, and a 10mm with Underwood 180 grain gold dot on the shoulder holster. Semper Fi, YUT! And yes, I’m an 0311 1990’s Marine
these are my current options for home defense and in the context of non concrete apartment building with neighbors.
1. 55gr v-max rounds. The reason why “go watch garland thumb 556 penetration test” it penetrates the least but when tested in gel it has around 10ish inches of penetration so good for skinny people.
2. 77gr otm. Just awesome
3. 75gr bthp heavy hollow point
4. 68gr bthp less heavy
5. 55gr soft point. Seemed like something to pick up that could be nice. Tell me what y’all think. Bulking in the 77gr would be ideal
I run a suppressed 11.5” for HD so I have it loaded with Hornady Black 75gr SBR ammo. In my “SHTF” magazines I have 77gr OTM from PSA/AAC because it works well in all my AR’s from my 18” to 11.5”.
A 1-9 twist helps reduce the stability upon impact of the m855. Just a variable to consider
🪂🪂🪂 New open line: The Clint from Thunder Ranch we have at home
😘
I use m855 because when I bought it, it was for a great price, it was lake city, and my rifle is pretty reliably around 2.5 moa with it. I also don't look to my rifle as my home defense as I live in an apartment and feel better and more confident using my handgun (9mm 135gr +p critical duty) with regards to distance and removing some of the worry for my neighbors. Though the only good way to make sure you don't hit neighbors is to hit the bad guy.
Just a regular old guy I have my AR 15 load with 64 gold dot, but moving to 75 gold dot, barrier blind and will expand at low FPS , I am told , never shot any person and never hunted with any 556
I have a 10.5 build for home defense running Federal Fusion 62gr soft points. Delivers 3k fps at the muzzle and like 2700 at 100yds, 2400 at 200yds.
my personal
1.53gr CX Hormady tap
2. 75gr interlock SBR in shorties
3. 64gr SBSP
4. any Vmax loading
5. 69 ro 77 otm for diatance
6 Green tip is junk......... period
Im with you on alot of things but 855 and 855a1 are not armor piercing unless the armor your referring to is russian helmets. None of its designed to defeat plate armor, it can but its not its job. 995 53 rungsten core now thats a different story. i would substite the fact that any al all heavy for caliber 68 to 77 OTM or BTHP are devastating on tissue but are absolute garbage through barriers
for ARs i stockpile 62gr Fusion MSR, good performance through glass, great performance on soft targets(nasty deer wounds), good performance through brush, its an expanding round HP so it'll petal very well at 400-450. Best all arounder IMO, not sacrificing a ton of speed either, still good MPBR. M855A1 is the only round I think is better but nonfeasable for stockpile, 62gr fusion MSR is a brown belt in everything. I don't like the "77gr hotness", too slow for me, I like my long MPBR. If you havent heard of an Alpha Tarac, check it out, one of the best inventions for general purpose rifles in years-expanded MPBR and no holdovers up close, passive non-electronic.
Don’t forget about barrel twist with my 16” 1:7 I have to run at least 62 gr. When shooting beyond 100-150 yards 55 grain becomes pretty inconsistent as far as accuracy goes.
I'm surprised at how rare M995 ammo is and how there are basically no sellers to civilians. Tungsten carbide core ammunition cuts through plates like butter, so it would be a great thing to have around for SHTF.
It seems like a hybrid between M855A1 and M995 would be incredible at defeating armored opponents: Tungsten carbide tip with multi-projectile slug.
The 77gr OTM from IMI is what I’ve been able to get my hands on for home defense. I’ve got a 10.3 it performs well out of.
I live in a state (HI) where ammo cant ship. (For those people who said you can, yeah sure, its possible but you'd be limited on amount of ammo and end up paying $200 more on specialized shipping for box of M855a plus, 223. OTM are $32 for a 20 round box here, it aint financially sound.) So stocking up on M855 and M193 is the way to go here without breaking the bank much. At least from what i know and see
My home defense is Black Hills Mk262. As far as M855, a good reason to have some outside of home defense is that I've found it to zero (POA/POI) with Hornady 5.56 (not .223) 68gr OTM (HPBT) and 5.56 69gr SMK. Though, you'll want to verify this through your rifle of course. So, now within the same loadout, you can run both (in different mags, obviously) for barrier penetration and terminal performance on soft targets without changing to a secondary zero. Hopefully that'll help some of you guys make your M855 more useful.
Btw, another good round that does well against individuals from my experience is 70gr TSX (not cheap though). You'll need a 1:8 or faster twist rate, however. Where as with 77gr OTM, you only need 1:9 or faster, despite the common belief to the contrary.
(For those who just got triggered and want to parrot the same arguments)
I've run it through a 1:9, I've seen it run through multiple 1:9 rifles at over 600 yds very accurately, and Black Hills knows their own ammunition. If you own some, read the side of the box that says specifically 1:9 will stabilize it. I know someone will say "It'll stabilize it for (X yards) and then it will fly off in a random direction", but this just isn't true. I know some people get very impressed with ex SOF/Gov't contractors/PMCs who are now doing their thing online, but as someone who also did that work, I prefer correct information, rather than appeal to authority. Feel free to watch some of the videos of this being the case, and testing it for yourself. Good science is verifiable, falsifiable, and repeatable.
(The end. Either go try it, go watch others proving you wrong, or stay willfully wrong.)
I know that's a bunch of detail, but if I didn't add it, I would get those annoying arguments from people who are just repeating something they heard from someone they look up to. So, for the rest of you, I apologize.
855 is just fine for the pile.
77 OTM from IMI is about the cheapest I'd go for that config.
Both have the added benefit of having sealed necks and primers, which are also staked.
HD use is a specific use case and your tools should be vetted for function here, zero malfunctions being the goal.
GtoW is another set of issues, I'd defer to compatibility above all else there (855 advantage?).
A1 is a beast, but as you said, I believe the accelerated wear and cost are prohibitive for most people. A couple years back people looking for that performance I'd have steered'm toward Mk318 or Bear Claw, but it seems those have all but disappeared.
All that to say; do your homework, check function over various conditions (if you can), understand 'no tool is perfect', and hope you never havta....
My arsenal is mostly 55 grain, currently stocking various other weights: 64, 72, 77, because I have barrel lengths ranging from 8.5 to 10.3, 11.5, 12.5 and 16 inch..Thinking about going back to my M1 Garand and 150 grain 30:06 and my 1911a1 in The Lords caliber, because I want to win the war! LOL!....
Was just going through this in my head with my new DMR build. I wanted 62gr ammo that was NOT green tip because I had seen (in person and in videos) the 3MOA accuracy that seemed standard for the round. But I found the Fiocchi 62gr FMJBT flying at 3000FPS in a 16" barrel according to their tests. Mine will be out of an 18" barrel with 1:8 twist. Also picked up some 75gr Hornady black yesterday. Just gotta buy the scope to go on it and I'll do some accuracy testing.
There is more to life than the ammunition that he mentioned. All of the ammunition mentioned are military rounds. The military is restricted to certain ammunition, a citizen of the United States is not. Choose wisely.
Check out Uncle Freedoms video titled, "Top 10 Rifle Defensive Ammos and My Thoughts."
I dig the barnes varmint grenade.
Or read docgkr's old writeup on reccommended loads. Spoiler; just get federal fusion msr and you're golden
I dont think I heard you bring up TUI rounds. How do they compare to the m855 and m193? I know they're like double the price per round but how do they compare when it comes to barriers, armor, and heavy clothing?
I keep mags of green tip and hollows
If I need to disable a vehicle or body armor I go to green tip
Self defense I go to hollows
It all depends on what situation you might be in
m193 is a fragmenting round, fragmentation depends on velocity, do not shoot yourself in the foot with it expecting a tiny entrance and exit hole.
dude. Check out the XM556FBIt3 62gr 5.56 bonded soft point developed for fbi. There’s a civilian/LEO .223 load with the same projectile and nickel case but the 5.56 is incredible.
Also you gotta check out AAC’s 75gr saber blade black tip, that’s my go-to round for my 14.5” gp rifle setup. About .75 moa and 0.50 cents per round. Basically AAC’s version of the Black Hills TMK (holy grail of 5.56 ammo - look up the Black hills 77gr TMK!!!)
Of course the 70gr tsx aka “socom brown-tip” is worth checking out too.
Great video, thanks for the upload. Another thing about m855a1 is it really wears out shorter gun parts quick. They’re getting well over recommended chamber pressures so it makes sense but damn they are hot
I've been heavily stocking up with the 77 gr otm.
I use ballistic tip for home defense, federal fusion for deer/shtf, and 55 gr for my 12.5
There are a lot of good rounds out there for 556.
55 grain Vmax great for short barrels actually having good terminal performance and more of an urban area but barriers it sucks.
556 hunting ammo like federal fusion or gold dot, good for taking deer.
62 grain TSX bullet, great for lethality reasons and good penetration but is very much a velocity dependent round.
Cheers to the legend of the K-Kid. 🍻
I use 55 grain .223 soft point. Is it ideal? No idea, but it’s the most plentiful defensive ammo in my area
IMI 77 gr. Razor Core. Leaves 3" exit wounds and shoots postage stamp size groups at 100 yards. I've been doing this for 55 years now.... I think I have some idea what to use.... for any of my rifles. Rate of twist is extremely important to , at least it was for Eugene Stoner
The round that works best with your barrel and twist rate . I run 62-&75 ,i have a 1:8 16" and a 1:9 20" with respected optics.
What’s your thought on Federal Fusion MSR (bonded 62 gr.)? I heard they are about to or already have released a tipped version as well.
im going to recommend the primary arms evolve long stroke piston. is there a 7.62x51 chamber in a 12.5 edition of this? for home defense of course because nothing says get off my lawn like 180gr of don't mess with Texas.
77 gr. hollows out of a 20” musket made by Aero Precision.
M193 actually has more penetrating power against steel than m855 both out of a 16” barrel. This is due to higher velocity. Just wanted to point that out.
Love wheel guns and appreciate the ammo info. have 2k 193 that I thought I'd use for plinking only and save the green tip, now I may have to reconsider.
55 grain is practice rounds and home defense for me. M855 in all my mags in rigs.
Matter of fact, I just verified zero with AAC 77gr OTM today. My 14.5, 16, and 18” 1/8 twist barrels seemed to like it.
Much appreciated Contant on the topic which can be quite confusing
My newest EDC is the Sig XTen Comp. with Underwood ammo 140 gr xtreme penetrator..will defeat body armor up to 75 yds..amazing gun. with recoil that equals 9 mm! You gotta try one Trench..amazing accuracy with red dot to 75 yds!....also why 62 gr green tips are bad..they are less accurate snd tend to key hole more quickly due to their unbalanced weight distribution...with the center penetrating rod.....77gr 556 is my choice. for up to 300 yd kill range.
A varmit round works really well in a " over penetration sensitive environment" it was issued to hostage rescue entities for retaking an airliner, or bus or other " linear assault" it works fine on soft body armor, not at all on hard armor. Sheetrock will break up the round. Not better or worse, but a choice.
Had someone tell me the stuff I’m buying isn’t defense ammo….
I said ok. Go stand over there and let’s see what happens?
He said “what” ..
His friends laughed and said lead will thump anyone…
AAC 77 grain OTM sierra match, hit large steel out to 900 yards. I don't have much experience with it beyond that.
I'm running 55 grains outa my psa premium a2 clone with very good results
77 gr otm by AAC provided cheap by your boys at PSA. Awesome defensive ammo at a good price point.
m855a1 is like the 277 furry. its not meant to last 10k rounds. the people are ment to die before it goes bad. or they get a new barrel..
I have 250 rounds of both m855 and m193. I think its pretty solid i have one full combat load out for both me and my roommate and we and an additional 80 on top so we should be good to go until we get a “loot drop”
This list seems to be heavy on military rounds and ignores the premium commercial rounds that are superior to all these.
Like the 52gr tsx from Barnes or the 75gr tap from Hornady?
@@G.W-01I wouldn't even use those over 62 grain fusions
@@mghegotagun You mean the hunting ammo Federal Fusion?
@@G.W-01 yes
@@mghegotagun That's probably not gonna work out well for anyone within the messed up court system after a home or personal defense shooting.
🪂 not a paratrooper but deployed to ramadi in 06 with the 101st
🪂 green tip, would love to get m855a1 but it’s been elusive I don’t use this for home defense … that said you were my motive for swapping my home defense to semi auto shotgun loaded with 00 buck
Does any company load 855a1 for civilian consumption? I personally like m855 especially good ammo that’s loaded properly. Good m855 out of a full length barrel is a really accurate round. I did 2 tours in Afghanistan and found it to be up to the task within its intended range.
Honestly though I think most people are best off stockpiling 55gr 193 because almost every ar shoots it well and its devastating on soft targets. Going the proper velocities 193 fragments and has a core that punches 12 to 13 inches very reliably. It’s a solid choice for most uses.
I do enjoy the 77gr rounds as well they are great for extending the range of a 556.
M193 going at adequate velocity(2500min 3000optimal) will yaw *and* shatter on impact generating large temporary and permanent wound cavity, lower velocities wont fragment reliably but should still yaw and do plenty of nasty things
What is the minimum caliber to take out humanoid robot's?
Gold Dot55 gr $496/500 rds. 100% reliable. No overpenetration. There are better rounds(Underwood Controlled Chaos) but too expensive to stack. Have some for inside the house fighting, but Gold Dot for outside.
Green tip is to shoot through glass and light cover IMO.
I'm using 55gr VMAX for home defense. I want that shrapnel
Most of my 556 is AAC 77gr otm. With the performance I've seen from it and the price I see no reason to buy M193 anymore. I also have the AAC 77gr SMK which is what I'm using for home defense and what I zero my rifles to.
I bought my first M193 ammo last week! Previously I only used M855 ammo, but I decided to try a lighter 55gr bullet to better match my barrel's (slow) 1 in 9 twist
All my mags are loaded with the 55gr. Might load up 10 mags with 62gr just in case.
If someone who is wearing plates gets hit by 55gr or 77gr will the force of the impact on the plate at 200-300 yards take them out of the fight for a time? Or will they be able to brush it off and keep going?
That revolver handle is that just stock or? I like how it's thick some of them handles are just to thin looks like you can get a good hold on that deal