Christopher Southgate - If God Exists, Why Natural Evil?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- When earthquakes and tsunamis kill and maim, when children suffer painful illnesses and die young, where is the God who is supposedly all-powerful and all-good? When humans suffer severely, if the horrors are not caused by other human beings, it is called 'natural evil'. For the theist, is natural evil more difficult to justify than moral evil?
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Chris Southgate is a trained research biochemist and a Senior Lecturer of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter, where he also works as a Research Fellow in Theology. His main fields of study are the science-religion debate, ecotheology and environmental ethics.
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Very basic question but no one has satisfying answers. Nature itself looks like an evil entity to me.
Nature has no purpose and genes are not sentient. However, metaphorically, genes might look to us like slave holders forcing us to procreate. We are their survival machines or tools to help them win the war with their closest rival genes. Nature can be very harmful and cruel.
My view is that both powers are equally prevalent in the cosmos and that all we experience is the visible result of their relationship,we are just inclined to see the evil more for various reasons that have to do with our psychology.The underlying philosophy of "the universe is inherently evil" is that a good God would only produce good and since that's not visibly the case,we jump to the opposite conclusion.But wouldn't the same logic conclude that a purely evil God must have created only what's evil? Thus calling the universe evil doesn't give a satisfying answer to the problem,it only feeds our trauma-informed and confused as to why things are the way they are worldview.
@@dionisakissakis2297 this makes sense. I’m spiritual and I still can’t get past the fact that suffering outweighs positivity. There should be suffering but less, milder. I still can’t understand why life is so cruel
It looks evil to me too. The answer hides in a tiny little book called Answer to Job by C.G.Jung
What makes God not evil when He created evil? A good person would not be evil or be naturally able to create evil. If a person is evil you would naturally assume that person is bad, cruel and mindless. Why God is good and created a wold of natural disasters, death, suffering and pain. If he is perfect, why would have he created a world like this?
Natural evil is the strongest argument against conventional classical theism of a Ground of Being that has all power, is all loving (and recall how Christian scriptures speak of love/agape and what it entails...), and omniscient.
I know this isn't an interview with WLC, but I feel compelled to note that he says it’s logically possible that this Ground has “morally sufficient reasons” for permitting evil and that the evidential version has the burden of proving that such reasons are improbable. But this gets messy when we reflect on what “morally sufficient” means in a context where morality is grounded on the same aforementioned Being- on modified divine command theory, which says that morally right vs wrong depend on God’s commands and expectations, which in turn are *necessary* expressions of his intrinsic nature which he cannot change and which the gospels say IS agape (with all of what agape entails).
This is a HUGE problem.
The problem is agape love and natural evils contradict?
@@kohz9892 I think I was wrong.
@@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns could you elaborate ?
I would say that contrary to much axiomatic objections, the only possible material world is THIS material world with initial and evolving properties which gave rise to all that is in spacetime including us.
The difficulty also comes with semantic objections, the principle one being that 'good' is equated with 'pleasant' and evil with 'unpleasant. '
The confusion of thought arises from the conflations of assumptions of what we are talking about.
Moral evil and natural evil are entirely different categories. Moral evil is adequately addressee by the free will defence.
Natural evil is defended by the NECESSITY for the physical world to be the way it is.
The story of the world, of living beings and us, us the story of how matter developing the power of reflection through evolving into us realises that it is intrinsically DEFICIENT OF PERFECTION. The purpose of all life, led by us humans at life's pinnacle, is to learn how to understand AND THEN DISCARD the material world on a teleological ground and look for the roadmap to return to God by leaving the material world behind and entering the 'astral' [ fifth dimension, beyond spacetime, unlimited my material properties, the various levels. of 'heaven' and 'hell if you will].
'GOOD' means not that the material worldbis perfect ; on the contrary it means it us not, it entails necessary sufferings. But matter, through reflective beings like us, can find our way to God's realm of perfection. It is this STORY, this JOURNEY, that is good and that is meant to be.
The Jewish esoteric Kabbalah deals with this process as do other mystical traditions and esoteric practices.
This man has a very reductionist view of God. He argues that God's bounty somehow requires the inception of processes that lead to natural disasters (or evils). Why? An omnipotent deity could surely achieve the former without triggering the latter,
There would _seem_ to be no problem of evil if something like God and Heaven are real, and innocents and people who've behaved well go to heaven. If you're weighing up a limited period of pain and suffering versus an eternity of happiness, obviously there's no contest. Then the whole shitshow is understandable as being "for the greater good," or "God's plan." (The converse, a limited period of being evil and an eternity of suffering for your reward does seems a bit unbalanced though.)
However, one might still quibble that setting up that kind of situation _in the first place_ isn't how a all-good, omnipotent being would behave. At least I can't see myself setting things (laws of nature, etc.) up that way, and I'm only a middling good person. To the obvious retort to that, one has to say, "Well, if God can't make laws of nature the way he wants, in a way that _doesn't_ produce that kind of suffering ...?" Then we're back to that original commonly argument attributed to Epicurus.
The East Asians get around this by positing that God is more like the impersonal Logos of the Stoics - not a personal entity to whom moral terms could be ascribed. Then, one might say there's some kind of "lesson" to be impersonally taught (either conceptually, or via reincarnation or whatever), and that's just the way it happens to be. But I still can't see that being how a "good God" would behave.
Saint Michael defeated Lucifer in a heavenly battle, God said to Saint Michael to remove him from heaven and cast him down to the earth. This is why we are in this situation.
You want good you take the evil that comes with it, or as someone i know used to say if you can appreciate the good part of anything you certainly will have to deal with its evil just as well, for all evil is good and as it follows all good is also evil. How you ask. You have to run for perspective and placement, perspective and placement to spectate either good or evil is key.
We all agree that a major cataclysm is a bad thing if it happens when least expected, but say we ignite a barrage of nuclear explosions on a planet we chose to terraform, that would be considered a good thing right, even if some life exists there. What about an addvanced civilization that abhors organic chemistry and decides it is the best to kill all humans and life forms on earth after digitizing it all to massive data cores so humanity would live on digitally and all of it would happen painlessly in less than septillionth of a second. Would it be good or evil.
No one is perfect. No God is perfect. 😀
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
- Epicurus (341 BCE - 270 BCE)
Yes hes both willing and able. And he will do away with sin and evil in HIS time frame.
@@rubiks6 And then came reason and science and exposed of all that as bizarre fairy tales.
@@rubiks6 So two people ate some fruit and billions of people and animals suffer. Some plan.
@A l p h e u s nonsense. The “evil” in human nature is nothing more than evolutionary baggage. When we evolved from our common ancestors, they knew nothing but survival and were willing to do anything to survive. We are in the evolutionary stage where we have expanded our consciousness beyond just survival but we still have parts of our brain that are very primal so those two natures conflict, that’s why humans do evil things, we cannot help it.
@@iamBlackGambit if we accept your premise, god is even more incomprehensibly evil, not less.
He offered up no explanation.
But at least he acknowledges the problem of evil,from a scientific perspective.
It is not possible to wiithout being dishonest about his religious beliefs.
It's amazing how people try to defend "God" when its talking about natural disasters. It's so ridiculous dumb it amazes me. If I was good and I was that amazing I would probably figured out how to do things without all the BS. This was so painful to watch.
What's funny is the fact it amazes you that people defend GOD.. GOD doesn't have to meet your approval you gotta meet his, read your Bible, beg JESUS to forgive you and follow him or enjoy your quakes.....
@@Exodus-sb8so You need to stop reading that nonsense because Jesus isn’t real. You crazy people calling yourselves Christ lovers made him up to go against the Jews, the other group of people that wanted to kill you because you tried to make a son for their almighty God for which they too made up. Religion is a pyramid scheme.
In parts, i must agree with you
Meet all of gods needs even though yours arent and he hasnt been around for 2,000 years. If you mess up in your brief life here on earth you'll spend an enternity in hell. What about that doesnt make sense to you?
@@Exodus-sb8so if god created incomprehensible evil in the world, why would we worship him? (other than out of fear of a cosmically powerful psychopath who created incomprehensible evil, that is.)
God can do anything apparently, and it creates a world where evil is possible, whereas it could have not created evil at all, natural or otherwise. I doubt creation devoid of evil is illogical or contradictory like a square circle. It's annoying listening to folks trying to rationalize and absolve god of its very deliberate, purposeful and integral part in creating evil. God created the rules plain and simple. Otherwise, it's almost like there's a constraint on god where it has no choice but to create evil, despite its best efforts not to. So it creates a world where evil is possible, then punishes people in even more evil and sadistic ways. Perhaps god is trying to lead by example of what evil truly is.
Before man’s fall due to sin there was no death, and there was no evil within the bounds of the world. Man’s sin made us “doomed to die” as it is said in the Bible, and that was our decision of based in free will that prompted that. Inevitably, us as humans are responsible for all evil within this world, even if the factors of worldly judgment are created by God. Fortunately, there is an afterlife, and God gave us grace through Jesus Christ. None of us deserve eternal life, yet it is a gift to the righteous who wish to spend eternity with God, and he respects our free will decision whether we want to spend eternity with Him, or separate from Him.
Ultimately, we’ve brought death upon ourselves, and we must remember for whatever we think is evil, we must also remember God is just. Therefore there is a reason for everything, and those who are innocent will be judged accordingly.
Just as God used the Israelites to judge the Canaanites; the Canaanites had hundreds of years to change their ways and turn away from child sacrifice, rape, degeneracy, and being it was a time in which people were not apt to reason, He made the decision to send judgment on His creation which would not even exist to begin with if it weren’t for Him.
Truly, we cannot fathom the will of God no matter how hard we try, but we must understand His nature if we wish to have at least somewhat understanding instead of outright denying His existence (because that claim in itself is not scientific).
God bless.
Why would you hold on to that smirk upon discussing a topic like this? It instantly makes you look less credible.
He's talking nonsense
God either is absent, doesn't care or not very powerful
Feels like I been having this exact conversation my entire life.
Please don't invite him as your guest. He is not only unconvicing in his answers, but also intentionally avoiding the questions
Voltaire debunked this ‘best of all possible worlds’ argument over 300 years ago in his book Candide where he showed through the character of Pangloss just how ridiculous this argument is. This is truly desperate grasping at straws.
I've never once heard a theist say anything of any substance on the problem of evil. It's all the same as this guy, just blah blah blah.
Sir RLK sure deserves a Nobelprize.
My problem with religion is that they say God made people on his image, that make absolutely no sense why would God make people in his image when from all animals the most evil are people?
I don't know how one could possibly judge that the human animal is the most "evil." However, I think most people would agree that there are myriad evils in the world. Leibnitz claimed that we live in the best of all possible worlds because God is perfect. This is just false philosophy. We need better philosophies. Humans are able to create new knowledge. There can be unlimited improvements in philosophy and science if humans choose to make it so by seeking better explanations and by being optimistic and working toward a better world.
"But failure need not be permanent in a world in which all evils are due to lack of knowledge."
Deutsch, David. The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World (p. 395). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Silver, I think if you look past the physical, then you will find a ubiquitous form for every thing. What if his ~ form~ was life force? Then it would apply not only to the family of man, but also the animal kingdom, and I'd submit , applies to the world of plants.
Without ~ life force~ ( best term for now without getting too deep ) what would grow, develop ? This life force could also be the dynamism behind the movement of stars and galaxies ( as I see it).
Any hoo - just a notion,
@@frank1803 The so-called elan vitale or vital force has been completely de-bunked for about 200 years. We are now in the third millennium. Maybe you should try to catch up?
We are like God, tough and brutal, but have a good hearth.
@@patmoran5339 Pat thanks for the update... maybe I will even update my cart and horse.
Yet I offered the idea as an idea.... but that said, to look at it ( life force) as something that is debunked from the standpont of energy , I find it hard to discount.
( ps point me to the debunking....love to read it)
Others may vary.
Aw phooey. Not worth the time to hear this God boy
“We all have a Monster within; the difference is in degree, not in kind.”
― Douglas Preston
I agree with this perspective.
We are all necrophiliac cannibals, but only very few people actually eat human flesh and rape the dead.
@@xspotbox4400 You are the only necrophiliac cannibal. We all know it and we have been ordered not to tell you that you are the only one. I am, unlike all the others, a rule-breaker by nature.
@@patmoran5339 No, i'm not, wouldn't tell you if i would be.
Evil is the misunderstood wisdom of Nature.
Ex:- One lives by eating and he will be eaten.
@Daniel LukeI notice that many people understand quite well that nature is, at best, amoral (a nicer euphemism for cruel). I guess the question is are these same people willing to do an "end run" around nature to change nature for the better? We have made some progress already. Birth control is away of going around our biological nature. Our understanding of biological evolution is getting deeper. We are exploring how genetic engineering or splicing might be the answer to some conditions. Our understanding of cultural evolution is primed for ascendancy into an exponentially growing source of knowledge. If enough people want to change nature for the better, we should work for better philosophies of science and implementations of technology to make that happen.
But how do you justify random murder, mutilation, health issues to innocent babies and children? I can understand eating that’s a logical natural cycle of energy transfer and carbon.
@@Zen_Power Nature is not "nice" any more than it is "misunderstood wisdom." I am not trying to justify anything about nature. I am for making better solutions.
Nature is evil, nature has created a system where one living being has to kill other living being just to survive and in that too pain outweigh the pleasure which makes it more evil. It's like the creator doesn't care about it's own creations.
Just admit GOD is a construct, a state of mind, a way of interpretation and making sense of the world, and all the rest of the pieces of the puzzle will fall into places
*Deities in general. Customs, collective knowledge, religions, cultures all die out when the civilization dies out, at least historically (are many hundreds or thousands of religions everyone in the culture "knew" must be true and slept good at night). Otherwise, if there was a true deity/ diegies, unlike testable science, ancient civilizations would all be independently coming to the same conclusions about their deities (and yet judeo christian diety is radically different from old testament & new testament lol). To each their own what their heart tells them, but people should know the Bible is in no way a scientific work nor shows scientific truth
Without a transcendent god, there is no way to ground morality in anything but the sifting sands of our subjectivity and thus no way to hold any action as intrinsically good or evil. How can one condemn slavery, rape, torture? On what grounds? Most so called atheists live as though there were a god.
Yes One of God's Traits is to Construct.
Highlighted by the Existence of the Universe and Life.
Next episode of “Closer to Truth”. Does God like Ketchup with his French Fries?
Actually many people have NOT understood Professor Southgate's answer. He actually DOES squarely face all aspects of the question. He's the only one so.far who.does it.
Why not just blame the devil.... if you're going to attribute agency to one mythical being wht not another
All this talk assumes that all the suffering we have in the world in universally as bad as we feel it... but what if its only from our point of view?
I am not religious or spiritual, but if we assume there is a god//creator, he must be so far more sophisticated or developed that we cant even imagine.. and from his point of view, the suffering we have is not THAT terrible.
Just imagine how a child feels when he drops his ice or breaks his favourite toy... the parent may feel a bit with child, but he clearly doesnt see it as painful or terrible as the child does.
Not sure if this makes any sense.. my english is not that great... but what I am trying to say is that, maybe all this pain we think is so terrible... and clearly is for us... may not be in the big picture.
Evil only makes sense on theism. Evil points to the existence of God.
Do you know Buddhism?
Did you mean "in" theism? Also, what if all evils are due to a lack of knowledge? I am thinking no god(s) are needed in that sceanario.
God is the evil. There is plenty of evil in “the Good Book,” but here are some highlights:
1. God drowns the whole earth.
In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
2. God kills half a million people.
In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.
3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites - men, women, children, infants, and their cattle - for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.
6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.
In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.
In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.
8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks.
In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
9. God burns two cities to death.
In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.
10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears “maul” the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means “to tear apart.”)
11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.
12. 3,000 crushed to death.
In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.
13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master’s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.
14. Child sacrifice.
In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites.
15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.
In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.
17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother’s widow.
In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow.
19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30
In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.
20. The coming slaughter.
According to Revelation 9:7-19, God’s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth’s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.
Natural evil has been used as a justification for humans killing and eating gods creatures, and using them for their own gain in one way or another.
Nature became cruel when humans did. Nature is a reflection of some what.
But not all nature is evil, animals can also be loving, gentle, caring and compassionate with one another.
An earthquake or any other natural event is not evil. It causes suffering, but it is not evil. It is part of the balance. Calling it natural evil because it doesn't suit your liking is your own ignorance.
Evil and Good that’s how we know the World, you remove Evil their is no Good too .
People have a free will! 🤷♀️
This questions are all tailored to critique religion. If there is no god then there is no good or evil, just 2 sides of a coin and xou simply pick the the one as evil that doesent suit your view. the interview is highly missleading in terms of steering you into a direction. if your a good person in your oppinion, whats the bonus of you becoming a atheist. Why do these people always try to convince you from the opposite for no benefit for humanity. Highly dissmissive content dude.
I’m pretty sure the last thing an all-knowing agent lacks is creativity…
Here is the way I see it. Either there is a multiverse or a designer. Scientifically evidence favors a designer. Is this designer God? Who the fuck knows
As always christians know so much what god has in store for us, with such certainty, really they have no idea
Natural evil ? I am a little suspicious of my black cat.
I tried to eat my black dog once, just to scare him a bit, but he was just smiling, he knew i would never bite him and i don't eat dogs.
Xspot box . Mr Kuhn sure grinds out the daily videos. I’m just tired of being serious. Lol
@@jeffamos9854 Next in season 10, same questions all over again, but framed in a slightly different way. And it all already happened a year before that, and so on.
Be kind to your cat. They ward off evil spirits.
God is unloving, humans are created in gods image, god is also selfish and unloving
Whereas God is a Singularity, evil is an aspect of duality. In duality, to know good, there must be a possibility for evil. If everything was good, and it ultimately is, then an experiential process in duality would be pointless. Evil, like falsehood, must always be a possibility, to make choosing the good & truth over evil & falsehood possible. Choosing between good & evil, is an aspect of an experiential process in duality. The famous "Fall" in Genesis, is man's "fall" into duality. This, is the "beginning" as it were. Namaste
This looks like Marxism dressed up in a cheap tuxedo.
“Most of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions.”
― T.S. Eliot
Including tsunamis and volcanos?
Nobody want to admit he deliberately caused evil, because they were just stupid or insane, specially doesn't want others to know how much they enjoy that, so they just say it was for a good cause.
im gonna have to call this quote.. Wrong .
DawnHub I would like to have your opinion.
So what China was doing was right?. What about the terrorists?. Can you consider those as having good intentions?. You're stupid for believing that stupid quote.
There can be only one good reason why evil must exist, it must be very, very hard to create a perfect universe. Specially if we considered poor building materials present in the universe this days, they doesn't build worlds from hydrogen and helium no more.
Looking at natural evil from a more pragmatic perspective, rather than religious, the ultimate infinite source of the universe (the space-time singularity) if you think about it, only creates by virtue of the fact that energy seeks equilibrium. It is the incredible fine tuning that is necessary from a starting point of infinite potential that the original infinite source started with - in order to be more than nothing. If there are these two polar opposite concepts of absolute nothingness and an absolute infiniteness (and both are accepted concepts in science and mathematics), then for the infinite side to arise out of the nothingness side a lot of pulling away from the negative nothingness side toward the positive infinite side is necessary. Looking at the big picture, the evolution of everything is a beautiful thing but with a tough side and maybe disasters and destruction are inevitable when evolving order from chaos. The laws are set, so whatever difficulties these laws may cause, or give rise to as actual effects, must be part of the necessities to create everything out of absolutely nothing, and evolve toward wherever the infinite potential may lead.
I find this difficult to understand, but when I got to "fine tuning" I just assumed it was something about the supernatural. I assume it is not on the side of the rational.
_"Something out of absolutely nothing."_
Lol!
@@glynemartin And your point is...?
@@patmoran5339 "Lol" means that what precedes it is hilarious...
@@glynemartin I still don't understand. Please specify.
Rationalizing the irrational ad libitum, the main job of theologians
People are not evil, imagine what would we do if we would be god like and poses supernatural powers.
I always have thought that you cannot apply the adjective of "evil" to natural processes like the moving of tectonic plates, causing an earthquake. Evil entails intentionality, will, and deliveration. Evil can only be caused by entities that possess will, and power to exercise its will.
I think you can easily see why theists would be forced to posit natural evils for their god theory to remain viable. On the other hand I do not see why "bad" things should not be called "evil" if such things are caused by a process that could be disrupted or changed. The term evil can identify processes that can removed or at least bettered. Also, failure to address evil keeps the status quo in place.
@@patmoran5339 seems to me Pat that good and bad is societical and time bound. What was 'good' years back is frowned upon today ( in Europe or in N. America); Seems it's time bound .
Think of wars - good when one has to protect their freedoms, bad when one just wants to conquer. It's ~ okay ~ to kill in war and one could even be considered a hero; yet killing during times of relative peace , not so good.
@@frank1803 I don't think it is time bound. I think we can make steady progress in moral and political philosophy if we choose to do so. We live in the most safe and the most peaceful time of human existence.
@@patmoran5339 From a 'wars and devastation' point of view I'd agree. From a peace of mind view, I think more people are thrashing, live with angst, and are not clear how to regain balance. My data points is the US$320 billion illegal drug industry... people want some 'happy' from high.
The other is the % of people be treated ( and many untreated) for depression and various mental dis-eases.
Add all this up and there is a global health industry was worth about $8.5 trillion in 2018.... The 'deal' is here, much of it is hearthcare and some 'heath-cure, but a small % is preventive medicine and the improvement of the mental + emotional + physical well being of the people and therefore of society as a whole.
Frank Here Well it is probably true that up until recent past people were a lot more care free. They could only afford to care about one thing-staying alive during the next minute.
A human trying to explain god. What an insanity.
Lack of vision, weak and more Godless.
This is the third video I watch that supposedly explains why God created natural disasters and I still do not understand if God is good, perfect and almighty why in the world he would create natural killing machines....I do not get it. He could have created a perfect world...but he didn't. why?
According to the Scriptures that's what he did at the beginning but man was tempted and chose to try good and evil so that he could himself become a god
There is no such thing as evil in atheism, its just an opinion. The contradiction of atheism.
I guess it depends on what you call evil. I call cancer an evil. I call death an evil. I call the Covid 19 virus an evil. I call war an evil. I call atheism a good.
Pat Moran
To what moral standard are you appealing too, as to define good and evil? Your own? That’s just your opinion, what makes your opinion true?
@@breambo3835 Please criticize any of these as you like. It was unclear to me about the word "contradiction" in your comment. I do think that people who are atheists differ from non-atheists in that atheists are usually willing to think.
So torturing a child or animal to death isnt evil then? Child abuse isnt evil? Pfft cmon
No no he's muttering no clue what soever
"I do like" love it! My man!
Rubbish
very interesting topic
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.
"
Henry David Thoreau
The question is, what is the root? Little discussion on this.... most wish to cut the branch off that their neighbor is sitting on.
Bad Law is the source of evil.
@@JamesRushingRewardBeauty no doubt a huge contributing factor.
@@JamesRushingRewardBeauty Can bad judges, lawyers and prosecutors ever bring about any good laws? Can't change law in Hell, Devil is always right.
@@xspotbox4400 I guess this is bad news. There is no hell. Maybe you need to work for better laws in the here and now.
Is no one going to point out that the interviewer has the most amazing speaking voice of all time?
If we should assume the traditional paradigm, a little logic can do wonders. When there was only god, before creation, there was no one to tell him, "no". Like any child with free reign, he WAS evil but thought he was good. "Good" is an emergent property. It is a rather new concept for god. He has much yet to learn from us. He didn't sacrifice his son. He sacrificed his spirit. Substitute spirit for son in the gospels, and your eyes will be opened.
Terrible what you are saying about the eventual need of suffering in order to pave the way for future happyness at least when this would be a strategy used by God. But that’s indeed how our physical nature works; nature is crual but this is just a very very strong argument for the fact that there is simply no God.
The question is loaded with false assumptions. There can't be a perfect existence, free of evil and calamity, in this world. We live in reality! It's not God's job to protect us 24-7. That would be like living in a Twilight Zone episode. It would be hell.
Humans are naturally different one from another. Each with varying degrees of physical, psychological, emotional, as well as the varying effects of family and other associations. Evil does not exist as oppose to godliness, just people with natural tendencies that were encouraged to more socially acceptable norms or taught that childish "I want, give me" trait with disregard for others.
As each persons varies in "goodness" or "badness" levels, some are considered good or evil doers. This exist in the animal kingdom too, like chimpanzees hunting monkeys, lions committing infanticide now understood as normal behavior to creating mating privileges.
God as he or she, implies reproductive roles. God is more an "it"
"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
God doesn't neither.
I believe this is true. We have not been arrogant enough in addressing the problems of the survival of life. However, since the scientific revolution has occurred we have begun to address these problems at an accelerating pace.
Cut the tall trees.
God gives us love which is all we need..he set us free..do no blame god or evil...we have food and..to all humans beings...the problem is some have to much and some not enough..it's a humain choice GREEDY
You assume that natural processes are evil simply because it harms people (ego?).When a tree falls it opens the field for new growth.Rebirth?
Why natural evil, obviously nobody was teleported in this reality all grown up, smart and fed with manna.
the problem created itself... because good and evil are a human construct. thus by logic you cannot have one without the other.
Actually, I find this fella's theodicy sickening. What would he say if his family was devoured by a tidal wave? Flaxen Saxon.
Saxon lives matter. Anglo lives matter.
theologins are called to use their intellect..... if they did they wouldn't be theologins anymore.
If God exists why is there ignorance? Why is there spacetime? Why black, holes, planets, peanut butter? Why breathe, digest? Why talk? When you find out will you still be ignorant? Will you still be able to judge?
Depends on what you wish to call ignorance, no? If 'ignorance' is of pedagogy, ( or academic discipline) that is one thing. Yet if ignorance is defined as the 'forgetfulness ' of one's real nature, then that is quite another.
@@frank1803 So please tell us Frank, what is "one's real nature."?
@@patmoran5339 Somehow Pat I think you just may not ( really) care... but your 'true' nature from a physics standpoint would be the quantum field. There are 24 unique, fundamental excitations of quantum fields that are possible. Yet Pat this is the nature of everything, and we ( as humans) cannot be excluded. Hence the ubiquitous 'life force' that as you have said has already been debunked long-long ago.
@@frank1803 Wait just a second..............Man, my B.S. warning detector all of a sudden began screaming. I had to go shut it off. It is in my imaginary physics lab way down the hall on the left hand side right next to my Mach-Zender Interferometer. Wow, 24 unique quantum fields! Fundamental excitation! Ubiquitous! I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know. Elan Vitale Rediscovered! probably next headline in the New Scientist.
@@patmoran5339 works for me.... Pat, you get to decide what you will consider and what you won't, Help yourself. But you may wanna do some research. Like all of us, you are on your own.
I would think that if there was no 'natural evils' or negative thinking which removes the unrealistic demonic impressions of the prior word or at least reminds you of the overall meaning hiding subconsciously. Whereas, I would also think that if there was only goodness and positivity in the world then learning options would soon run out, it would seem. How would God obtain infinite knowledge to create all that will ever be and known if God did not cross over any evil or negativity... meaning all knowledge, wisdom, love, harmony... unless it was in place for God into itself without any tribulations or trials to develop and gain a new and better imprint or reality in the consciousness, body or any substance in general? As opposed to stifling the consciousness with an out of balance perspective of reality that requires only positivity for an evolution to develop?
"Natural Evil" in our limited eyes. What makes us what we will be?
If there is a god , he cannot possibly be all good
However Khun rules and rocks 💕❤️💕
God and so called evil are not thesis and antithesis.
Is a mistake to try and understand God from mans perspective because psychology is to limited. Intuition is far greater as it's outside the limitations of the brain, unexplainable often, however we know that God is beyond 3D: thought, logic, sight etc. Greater is sense, feeling, resonance. So understanding God would only be you in a revolving door with your own programming, trying to continously reform your own mental constructs, psyche & experiences until something seems to make the most since, while discarding that which doesn't -- paradigm thinking which is limiting within itself as God is transcended beyond. You cannot find the solution in the same place as the problem. Understanding what it means to understand is drawing near -- Openess; which is another name for God. One needs be rational with intuitive rationality, not mental limiting psychological rationality which is of 3D.
Possibly where we are right now, or the dimension a person is at is the Void of Light(God). Evil may be the void of God, so ego flourishes. Maybe it's not that God is absence, rather that we're absence to God.
Maybe natural evil is a filtering system. If God is experiencing himself through us, knowing the farthest edge of the farthest edge... a form of resistance would be nessacary. People test themselves to know thyself, without resistance this may not be possible.
Religion is dehumanizing because it disables the vitally important process of error correction in the human mind. Beliefs in the supernatural are inherently pessimistic, regressive, and prevent the growth of knowledge and innovation.
The Elephant is dying, please, someone help!
Big fish eats the small fish
This is nature
Why the assumption that if its bad its not God?
Because god basically duplicated himself to multiply the creative capability of the universe.. but in doing so the potential for evil was also created.. but it will work out. Humans are just dumbish.
Humans are the only species that can create explanatory knowledge.
If God begins a process of removing natural evil and starts with volcanoes, where does this process end? With all natural disasters gone does God then do away with famine and disease? Then broken bones, sunburns, bee stings? With all these obstacles, challenges, processes of destruction, creation, and renewal gone what remains?
So God isn't capable of creating a world of no evil?
There is no good and no bad
God found it necessary to use human sacrifice to correct the mistakes that he made. Worship that God? I'll take a pass on that.
He actually didn’t. Look into Judaism.
Translation: natural disasters help sea life
This episode shows how stupid one can be… what drivel
How you consider an action is evil ? First if you want to know if someone was oppressed by god so you should know everything about that person at all his life from birth to death what he was doing ? What did god give him ? Everything, at that point when you know everything you can judgment on god if what he do with that person is evil or not , in this way you will be just in your argument otherwise not because if you take one action and you don't know anything so how you consider god is evil ? What stupid logic is that?.
It could be a language difference but this comment does not make sense to me.
@@patmoran5339 try to read it again I have make some changes
Sorry no help.
He's pretty awesome, even if i am strongly agnostic
I’m a theist and his response was far from awesome💀
Evil serves toward the purpose of development.
Naughty, naughty,...
Xspot box What’s naughty naughty? Development?
I would need an explanation for why an omnipotent being needs to or chooses to employ the rules of nature. God shouldn’t have any pressure to choose a path to complex life that necessitates evil. Also, good is manifested in virtuous acts and states. Why do people need a reward beyond the good that comes from doing good? I can only see that need coming from a defect like greed, narcissism, and ungratefulness.
I like your "why" question. My theory? It (morality) all comes from within ourselves. We need to look inward, not outward. This is why I believe that unlimited progress can be made in moral and political philosophy. We have to continually resist the idea that someone might have caused our difficulties and focus on optimistic problem solving.
Pat Moran ethics/morality is in us in that we are smart enough to be ethical agents and we have properties (consciousness, pain, etc.) which make us objects of ethical consideration. Though we have a lot of say in deciding morality, I wouldn’t present it as something purely relativistic and subjective. Quite a bit of science, mathematics, logic, and good character have to go into any honest and intelligent understanding of ethics/morality. It’s not intuitive the higher the level an ethical problem is. The inner and outer world both exist; they both must be understood.
@@enfomy I disagree. It all comes from inside. Cultural moral relativism is quite dangerous. Just think about religious practices that you find abhorrent.
Pat Moran that’s immorality/unethical action if such is carried out, not morality/ethics.
enfomy Everything we experience comes from tiny crackles of electricity in the neurons inside our brain. We create every sensation, thought, and emotion inside our own brain.We only experience things indirectly. When you make a moral judgment you created that judgment.
Everything in the universe is an expression of god and we are all connected to god. Therefore when we experience happiness god shares that with us and when we experience suffering god also suffers with us..
Brainwashed by nonsense.
@@alivewell2920 Don’t know what you mean.. My brain is dirty
We are just bacteria with brains
The problem is that if God truly created all the heavens and the earth (the universe) he creates the earth knowingly with plate tectonics, tsunami's, volcano's, animals, plagues, meteor crashes, possible solar flare's, etcc...
All in a very hazardly and delicately fragile blue dot in one solar system, in what appears to be infinite amounts of space and distance.
And if you dont believe in a 2000 year old book of stories from men who didnt even know we orbit the sun on a billions of years old planet.....Well guess what according to bible stories you burn for eternity because you just didnt have faith.
Instead of making a calmer world and environment. Or just making it apparent and clear he exists at all.
What monstrous being would create the scaffolding to a pitfall he knew would trip people into? That of belief and faith instead of just pure love? Or at least making it clear for all time he exists? An all powerful being could comically easily do that so that his subjects would clearly know he exists. Instead of letting billions burn because they werent sure of it because how tf could they?
Why create a planet that is so hostile to anything that we die in pain by the thousands every second? Mass graves of children to the black death, cancer, aids, flu's, etc....
And all the natural disasters that have wiped innocents off the face of the earth in horribly painful ways since the dawn of mankind?
Why? Because someone ate an apple? Put their hand in the cookie jar? So that warrants eternities of death and suffering?
There is no such thing as evil in Nature.
That’s good to hear. I was worried about my black cat.
Mosquitoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamies, termites, viruses, asteroid strikes, cancers, old age, Alzhiemers? I guess it's all good? Nature is nice?
@@patmoran5339Nature IS. It simply is. You cannot attach a moral value about a natural phenomena. The asteroids were good for us mammals 60 million years ago but very "evil" for the huge cold blooded dinosaures. It's a bit infantile debate to label natural event as evil or good.
Nature itself is an evil. Natural beauty can be understood as an entity that is a beautiful evil.
@@ivolgafly What if something can be done to avoid things like asteroid strikes? Should we just grin and bear it or should we declare it an evil and do everything we can to stop it? Would that be infantile?
This channel is an utter mess
You are wrong.
I disagree. I think there is a reasonable balance within the constraints of the medium.
That's the truth.
An atheist pretending to search for God . Avoiding God with pseudoscience nonsense .. im only watching to see how much he can lie to himself
@@DawnHub666 No one is preventing you from speaking out for god. No one will protect you from criticism of your beliefs either.
Oh I don’t minimize… yes you are!!!!!
I’m confused as to how a earthquake or natural disaster can be referenced as evil in any manner? Starting to realize that all this channel is doing is chasing its tail and pointing out flaws in human language over and over
I do not like the terminology.
Good and evil are notoriously hard to define. However, I think maybe a good approximation regarding "evil" is something that, if prevented or mitigated, could result in the betterment of the world.
It's when roof of your house fall onto your head when you sleep or grounds sudenlly open beneath your feet, or when an entire mountain explode in a giant cloud of suffocating gas and turn everything to ash.
😂 natural disasters is caused by the deity or he made it possible for the event to take a place within his universe so it kills all kinds of humans child adult old doesn’t matter so yea that’s unwarranted excessive evil
@@godofleverege1829 "The god(s) did it" is always a spectacularly terrible explanation for any phenomenon.
So suffering is inevitable consequence of the natural processes that lead to our current situation; sounds like a denial of God.
Natural evil is our Karma coming back to us 😉
Nothing can escape Karma
But, once we let go the ego, Karma is dead forever!
There is no natural evil.
Innocent children are dying because of natural evil, and your answer to that is karma?
I strongly disagree with religious explanations including Hinduism. Bullshit.
@@prudhvic4 we ignoring it is bad Karma. We don't know what they did in last life so, we cannot be sure
It seems like there is no way to escape beliefs in the supernatural. Maybe I have the wrong calendar. Mine says we are living in the third millennium. O wait, I just realized that I am living in a future life. I should have known. Everything looked like something I had never seen before. I had so hoped that humanity might finally take the trash out. I mean last life, next life, who can keep up?
there is no evil, just experience.
Like children with bone cancer?
Gustavo Gindre standard canned response.
@@bajajones5093 Maybe just a reasonable response to a simplistic and pessimistic hate-filled claim against humanity? But what do I know? Fortunately, I have never "experienced" having a child with bone cancer.
My attitude about evil is in the Buddhist tradition as stated "The Tibetan Book of the Dead". . After you have read it direct your questions to them.
read some Buddhist writings and then we will talk. until then believe as you wish!
natural evil exists because we live in a fallen world. none of it existed in the Garden of Eden, but man invited evil into it, against God's command, and it's gotten worse and worse. so instead of acknowledging our mistakes, we choose to blame God for evil in the world. we were meant to be shown that all decisions have consequences, and even though we have a free will it is wisdom to follow God's will and make it ours.
Press Play Which god(s)?
@@patmoran5339 don't be cleverly coy. you know very well I am writing of the one true God and His son, Jesus Christ.
@@pressplay7922 So it's a threesome.
BTW The Garden of Eden was a death trap for humans.
It's people that create evil, not God. What about the wonderful blessings in the world.
Live by God's 10 Commandments. 🙇🏽♀️