Hi Beau, we made this test in the late 80‘s in Düsseldorf at the ISIGL (Institute of Stringed Instruments Guitar & Lute). Let me tell you, it is nice that you made this video and picked up the topic 👍🏼 But saddles with adhesive tape sound different than without the tape. Since the adhesive tape dampens und the sound! The samples should have the exact same size when you compare them. In addition you should compare a greater number of the same material e.g. bone, as the density differs a lot and as result sound too. An interesting material to me, especially when I build in an undersaddle transducer, is a saddle made of high tech carbonfibre! Even a thin shim carbonfibre (I use 0,8mm thickness) glued under a bone saddle equalizes the frequency spectrum a lot, so that the acoustic and transducer sound is more even. Best wishes from Germany >Lutz
@@BeauHannamGuitars exotic materials aren‘t mine too besides CITES problems. So my # 1 is still the good old bone in different variations, rarely as #2 carbon fibre and absolutely seldom as # 3 TUSK Best wishes >Lutz
True confessions: I have used an “engineered plastic” material for the nut and saddle on all my ukuleles. I have never used a modern or pre historic bone. I started building ukuleles after I retired from the aerospace industry. I had tested a variety of plastic parts for use in very high temperature applications. The material specs of some plastics approach bone in terms of bending modulus and exceed it in strength. There are many plastics that would be way too soft, but the reenforced (30% glass filled)PEEK (poly ethyl ethyl ketone) has worked well for me.
On PC speakers, I could just barely tell the difference between some of them, but not enough to judge. Excellent topic, will be interesting to do live drop testing on my bench.
Tone tests on RUclips are kinda dumb in that it’s all about the mic recording it and how good your speakers (and ears) are. But it is surprising to hear, like you said, many sound very similar.
@@BeauHannamGuitars the concept is solid, even if you can’t hear on PC speakers. I ordered some Tusq. Planning on measuring the f response difference on a guitar. Thanks for the sound concept😁
I use the drop test. But after watching your video, I’d love to make a little xylophone style saddle holder to test them with a mallet right after one another.
I can’t morally justify using elephant ivory in a project. Want to get rid of the bone nut on the guitar that has one. Good to see Tusq has good qualities. I’ll probably use that more in the future.
Thanks. This is the first time I've heard a recording that picked up the brightness of Tusq. Yikes! Testing and recording the different legal, easily obtainable materials on the same instrument would be useful if one had a spare week or two and a free bag of strings. Thanks again.
I found camel bone to be one that sits below bovine bone and Tusq in brightness. I only have two acoustic guitars, A Parlor and a GA. But I made three sets of each material for each guitar. As you said that you sometimes make two for a customer to change out, I would be that guy. Every now and then I will change the string type and the bridge just for a fresh tone. For me it is part of the fun! Definitely going to investigate the mother of pearl, Might suit my little baritone uke. Great vid Beau, Very informative
Yes, ebony is hard enough for both- violins always have an ebony nut as do many guitars. Most mandolins and archtop guitars have an ebony bridge/saddle.
Yamaha's Urea is harder then regular plastic. I'm happy with it compared to bone. I've tried bone and Urea in guitars...the guitar sounds the same. May have to try a tusq.... I've noticed a big difference using a Zero glide nut....it uses a stainless or nickle zero fret built into the nut....increases sustain and brightness. I love them. They stabilize the tuning. I have a zero glide in my Yamaha LL-16. The LL16 is an incredible sounding instrument...I think it outshines most of the martins...I play with 8 or 9 guys who have all the expensive martins (Every week). I've seen it embarrass a D45 and D28. The stainless zero fret nut is part of the thing....overtones are the other thing...more bottom and top....less mid's.
I was hoping for Black Tusq, Jet, Kirinite, Buloke, stabilised wood. Good vid though. Also, to do a fair test they would need to be the same size. (Edit: sorry you did cover Black Tusq - I’ve been experimenting with it on various guitars with good results).
Hahahha- we have dinosaur 🦕 🦖 bones around here (and in Fruita) you could use it as a saddle but it might be on the heavy side- best to use it as an inlay.
What one would be the brightest option? I only have money on Amazon, and I still need money for 2 packs of ukulele strings, mandolin strings, acoustic guitar strings, and I have 2 electric guitars so 4 pack of electric guitar strings. And I only have $70 so id like to stick with something cheaper. Mine measure out to be approx. 43mm*6mm*8.5mm N, 72mm*3mm*9mm S
Ok, I don't get what exactly you are listening for? The pieces are different dimensions. The same material can sound different depending on size,, the larger the lower the tone becomes, I thought?
I’m listening to the sound they makes when dropped which somewhat translates to how good a material it is. Yes they are different dimensions but in could do nothing about that as the exotic materials were on loan. It is still a helpful test.
@@BeauHannamGuitars Dont get me wrong ... Tap-tone too people differ what i mean is grade AA to Master Grade to some if you blindfold and ask them to judge some will go with AA grade. So what i meant is sound grading differs from person to person... I was a huge fan of TUSQ but when i went back to bone again started to like Bone over any other material ... thanks great video
@@reijerlincoln but brass is a denser material AND very homogenius which is an advantage and the Structure-borne sound coupling is far better. BUT tell me WHY should one add unnassary weight to the saddle of an acoustic instrument? It only reduces the efficiency of the whole system! Best wishes >Lutz
@@Violaodabossaviolins sound more alive and brash without varnish- the varnish technique dulls the sound, making it better. Sometimes “worse” is “better”.
Well-----did someone try it ??. Weight wise,,, it might help with sustain for one. And low end. Has anybody tried human skull? from experience that material is pretty dense.
Hi Beau,
we made this test in the late 80‘s in Düsseldorf at the ISIGL (Institute of Stringed Instruments Guitar & Lute).
Let me tell you, it is nice that you made this video and picked up the topic 👍🏼
But saddles with adhesive tape sound different than without the tape. Since the adhesive tape dampens und the sound!
The samples should have the exact same size when you compare them.
In addition you should compare a greater number of the same material e.g. bone, as the density differs a lot and as result sound too.
An interesting material to me, especially when I build in an undersaddle transducer, is a saddle made of high tech carbonfibre!
Even a thin shim carbonfibre (I use 0,8mm thickness) glued under a bone saddle equalizes the frequency spectrum a lot, so that the acoustic and transducer sound is more even.
Best wishes from Germany >Lutz
Yes a better test is to have the exact same shape/size/etc- however the exotic materials weren't mine so i couldn't shape them.
@@BeauHannamGuitars exotic materials aren‘t mine too besides CITES problems.
So my # 1 is still the good old bone in different variations, rarely as #2 carbon fibre and absolutely seldom as # 3 TUSK
Best wishes >Lutz
I want to spend day dropping saddle blanks also… 🙃
Huge job, someone needs to do this, cheers!
HAHAHHA- thanks- I did it so you don't have too! 😍
Of all of these, the TUSQ caught my immediate attention. Thank you for taking the time to educate us!!
@@cindyrobbins7018 thanks- and yes, the TUSQ has the most distinct sound
True confessions: I have used an “engineered plastic” material for the nut and saddle on all my ukuleles. I have never used a modern or pre historic bone. I started building ukuleles after I retired from the aerospace industry. I had tested a variety of plastic parts for use in very high temperature applications. The material specs of some plastics approach bone in terms of bending modulus and exceed it in strength. There are many plastics that would be way too soft, but the reenforced (30% glass filled)PEEK (poly ethyl ethyl ketone) has worked well for me.
Nice- I could do a plastics only video!!!!! Some plastic is like rubber, some hard as glass
Have you tried Kirinite or stabilised wood? The kind of materials used for knife handles.
Thanks for the information, Beau. Especially the results and discussion about bone and tusq. You answered a lot of questions.
My pleasure
On PC speakers, I could just barely tell the difference between some of them, but not enough to judge. Excellent topic, will be interesting to do live drop testing on my bench.
Tone tests on RUclips are kinda dumb in that it’s all about the mic recording it and how good your speakers (and ears) are. But it is surprising to hear, like you said, many sound very similar.
@@BeauHannamGuitars the concept is solid, even if you can’t hear on PC speakers. I ordered some Tusq. Planning on measuring the f response difference on a guitar. Thanks for the sound concept😁
I use the drop test. But after watching your video, I’d love to make a little xylophone style saddle holder to test them with a mallet right after one another.
a mallet with the same strike is the most scientific way
Thanks for the effort that went into this testing and blessings on the use of bone. Great contribution👍
Thank you and my pleasure :)
I can’t morally justify using elephant ivory in a project. Want to get rid of the bone nut on the guitar that has one. Good to see Tusq has good qualities. I’ll probably use that more in the future.
Yep
Thanks. This is the first time I've heard a recording that picked up the brightness of Tusq. Yikes! Testing and recording the different legal, easily obtainable materials on the same instrument would be useful if one had a spare week or two and a free bag of strings. Thanks again.
Thanks- one day I’ll do a video where I string up a guitar with all (most of these saddle materials) it would get ten’s of views! Hahahha
I found camel bone to be one that sits below bovine bone and Tusq in brightness. I only have two acoustic guitars, A Parlor and a GA. But I made three sets of each material for each guitar. As you said that you sometimes make two for a customer to change out, I would be that guy. Every now and then I will change the string type and the bridge just for a fresh tone. For me it is part of the fun! Definitely going to investigate the mother of pearl, Might suit my little baritone uke. Great vid Beau, Very informative
I dont think ive used camel bone (i may have and not known it). The MOP is fun to use- always looks super fancy and it cuts and files similar to bone
You got the dropsies!! 🤣 Now I want to try Corian... Me personally, I tend to stick with bone.
I've even gotten raw cow bone from a local butcher, boiled it and cleaned it myself. Unbleached. The only time I use Tusq is if someone wants black.
Your a bone man! 🦴
@@BeauHannamGuitars I'm a booone maan da da da da da da da
Hello, really interesting video. I always wonder if some sort of woods (like ebony) are hard enought to be used as saddle or nut ?
Yes, ebony is hard enough for both- violins always have an ebony nut as do many guitars. Most mandolins and archtop guitars have an ebony bridge/saddle.
Yamaha's Urea is harder then regular plastic. I'm happy with it compared to bone. I've tried bone and Urea in guitars...the guitar sounds the same. May have to try a tusq.... I've noticed a big difference using a Zero glide nut....it uses a stainless or nickle zero fret built into the nut....increases sustain and brightness. I love them. They stabilize the tuning. I have a zero glide in my Yamaha LL-16. The LL16 is an incredible sounding instrument...I think it outshines most of the martins...I play with 8 or 9 guys who have all the expensive martins (Every week). I've seen it embarrass a D45 and D28. The stainless zero fret nut is part of the thing....overtones are the other thing...more bottom and top....less mid's.
I was hoping for Black Tusq, Jet, Kirinite, Buloke, stabilised wood. Good vid though. Also, to do a fair test they would need to be the same size. (Edit: sorry you did cover Black Tusq - I’ve been experimenting with it on various guitars with good results).
Tusq is a typical saddle material but the others are not so didn’t worry about them. Some of these were borrowed so I couldn’t adjust their dimensions
Just great. Now I have to guard my walrus to keep the luthiers from taking his tusks. Do the fossils come from around Grand Junction?
Hahahha- we have dinosaur 🦕 🦖 bones around here (and in Fruita) you could use it as a saddle but it might be on the heavy side- best to use it as an inlay.
Is there any product to stain bone black. Thanks for the demo
I’ve not tried it but as bone is porous leather dye would probably do it. Not a bad idea actually.
@@BeauHannamGuitars thanks for the info and again for the video.
@@alandust2188my pleasure
Any chance you can take a bright guitar (D-28?) and play test it with different saddles of each of the materials?
I could, one day :)
What one would be the brightest option? I only have money on Amazon, and I still need money for 2 packs of ukulele strings, mandolin strings, acoustic guitar strings, and I have 2 electric guitars so 4 pack of electric guitar strings. And I only have $70 so id like to stick with something cheaper. Mine measure out to be approx. 43mm*6mm*8.5mm N, 72mm*3mm*9mm S
Brightest is TUSQ
Tusq
Nylon 6/6 is old interesting choice
I've not heard of Nylon 6/6
@@BeauHannamGuitars highly recommend it
@@aliure09I’ll look into it. Thanks
I use bone, I get it up the street at the butchers.
Now I’m hungry! Hahahah 🥩
Ok, I don't get what exactly you are listening for?
The pieces are different dimensions.
The same material can sound different depending on size,, the larger the lower the tone becomes, I thought?
I’m listening to the sound they makes when dropped which somewhat translates to how good a material it is. Yes they are different dimensions but in could do nothing about that as the exotic materials were on loan. It is still a helpful test.
I don't understand how a comparison can be made, given the wildy different dimensions of the pieces...?
Some were borrowed so I couldn’t change the dimension. It is what it is.
Holy crap I can't believe you can buy fossilized mastodon ivory lolol 😂 awesome vid man! I choose bone saddle!!
Hahahha- you can buy human bone on the internet (legally) if you REALLY want to! That would be too creepy though.
I would humbly suggest to actually try on the guitar and then judge … each instrument is different then make a call I use to do the same mistake
This test is what it is- its about as helpful as tapping a tonewood
@@BeauHannamGuitars Dont get me wrong ... Tap-tone too people differ what i mean is grade AA to Master Grade to some if you blindfold and ask them to judge some will go with AA grade. So what i meant is sound grading differs from person to person... I was a huge fan of TUSQ but when i went back to bone again started to like Bone over any other material ... thanks great video
Just wondering?
Did anyone ever make one out of brass.??
One thing---never need to replace it.
There are bass saddles. I’ve even seen a stone saddle! There is also rubber.
Brass nuts were a 70s trend. It's a relatively soft material by the way.
@@reijerlincoln but brass is a denser material AND very homogenius which is an advantage and the Structure-borne sound coupling is far better.
BUT tell me WHY should one add unnassary weight to the saddle of an acoustic instrument? It only reduces the efficiency of the whole system!
Best wishes >Lutz
@@Violaodabossaviolins sound more alive and brash without varnish- the varnish technique dulls the sound, making it better. Sometimes “worse” is “better”.
Well-----did someone try it ??.
Weight wise,,, it might help with sustain for one. And low end.
Has anybody tried human skull? from experience that material is pretty dense.