The Slow and Preventable Destruction of Gambit (Destiny 2)
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- Just delete gambit. That is the height of discourse surrounding Destiny 2’s most abandoned gamemode. Not even bungie themselves seem interested in the mode so why should we, right? But, how did this gamemode end up as the punching bag of the community? In theory, gambit is the peak of the destiny 2 experience. It combines elements of Bungies famous PvP and industry leading PvE into an activity that allowed both dedicated fanbases to enjoy their time. But currently, Gambits player count continues to comfortably rest along the bottom as the LEAST played gamemode and its not even close. Why?
Why has gambit languished as the worst that Destiny has to offer when on paper it should be the exact opposite? Is it loot incentive? Time investment? Lack of updates? Or maybe some other factor. This video aims to establish the history of Gambit, what it does well, what it does poorly, and what Gambit could be if Bungie was willing to be bold and give it one more try.
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I believe the game will always be better if there are more gamemode to enjoy. I hope we can get a conversation going about this mode that goes deeper then "just delete gambit".
Share with a friend if you are also hoping for Gambit to return.
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@@TDTProductions here are my thoughts on the game mode. I lived gambit it was fun and challenging. However the game used to be balanced around Heavy ammo. That 1 box every so often decided who won the game. After the witch queen DLC they just gave us way too much heavy ammo. Due to these different metas I believe that how you fix Gambit is locking Heavy ammo.
Here is my idea,
Modifier: Heavy Lock out
When there is an invader on the field Heavy weapons are locked.
This goes for both the invader and the people getting invaded. The team that sent the invader will be the only ones able to use heavy. This will make it so that the invader is a high priority target to take down that way BOSS dmg and ad clear can use heavy weapons. However they cannot be used in the PvP section of the game
I’ve always loved the concept of the rolls in gambit and seeing them expanded like this seems really nice. You also called out something I’ve commented to my friends, being that Onslaught should have been added as a gambit mode not added to vanguard ops. Doing this means that both modes can take advantage of new maps and enemy spawn logic as well as an integrated roguelike mechanic system with stacking buffs within the mode
After listening to your video, hearing your suggestions to the role updates makes me drastically wish that we would get a prime 2.0 for gambit
Your video was something as a old day 1 gambit player really desires to hear: Why not just remake the mode using the old stuff that was working but update what didnt to further enhance the best version of the mode?
Only thing i would add: While the armors were seen as very forced to fulfill a role's perks, Why not make these armors something like the soltice armor where, fulfilling certain criteras via quest game you better looking armor that tied into those roles identities?
Drifter always made comments on you wearing a dredgen title, at times fulfilling a role's job... Him rewarding those that play gambit and actually do it within the role criteras would be on par cause he would want you to look the part in style.
Brief examples: Reaper's would be green and ornate for each class to have a certain race specific trophy or trophies... Vex heads, Fallen Captain blades, Hive cloths
Invader wears slimed yet armored red accented armors with dead ghosts or guardian marks decorated on them, dead snakes, lion fur, eagle...talons(i dont know, something for warlocks)
Sentry has the bulkier variant and is golden to add a paladin like feel...a guardian of...ironically, guardians! The armor looks refined then in parts has like, wear and tear, throwing knives sticking out, hanmer dents, some energy marks from warlock invaders trying to kill them but failing
Collector, tricky to think but a smuggler robbed sort of drifter attire, like a white gleaming effect on some ragged clothes that show your like a collector of motes and scavage them from Reaper's kills
I could go further with ideas like Customizable armors but i dont want to make it too resource intensive...and if evolving armor wont work...
Could we least get some cool effects catered to that role, like you start glowing white with motes following you, Red glow with dead ghosts, Sentry has some holy light coming off it and reaper is just a cool trail of dead enemy factions.
Just bring back Gambit Prime and make Reckoner seal available again for those that literally just missed it by one 😢
I think there's many flaws but the absolute massive amount of heavy that spawns now just makes it worse than it's been. I hope they can figure something out and definitely think invasions need tuning with how much impact they have.
Gambit wasn't released with season of the drifter, it was released with forsaken
might have meant reckoning / gambit prime, those dropped with SoD
gambit dropped with forsaken, prime dropped with drifter, whoever says otherwise is kidding themselves. Gambit on forsaken launch was a damn good time, before people figured out the meta
Current Gambit is more like prime since it's quicker and only 1 round. Original Gambit was best of 3
@@jacobcollier4223 Honestly. Like most activities in D2, people loved it til they solved the meta. Gambit's initial reception wasn't bad by any means, it's just been in decay since season of the drifter ended and that hurts my soul
@@SenrabMJam technically a week before, there was a trial period with only the emerald coast map
Watching the Destiny community rally together to convince bungie to fix some of the worst things in their game (first the story, then Titans, and now Gambit) is both really cool to watch and also mildly funny
Cant wait for the expansion purely focused on Titans writing books about Gambit
@@okamiexe1501 needs to br written in nice red and blue crayons ofc
When were titans fixed, ever? I see, especially of late, people complaining that the class has been punched into nothingness and forgotten
@yasininn76 well no, people are still talking about how bad they are, and rightfully so. However, Bungie has already said they are looking at Titans, and prismatic Titan especially, because they are very underpowered and the other classes can do everything Titans do but better
Remember folks, if Gambit can be made in FORTNITE and be better than what we have here... Bungie can and should do better.
@@RurouniKalainGaming ain’t no way that’s true
gambit is very simple, it's really difficult to make, hell there's an entire destiny remake in minecraft.
Fortuite is not the same as Destiny 2
I get what you mean but compare what's comparable please
@@Puechampit proves that the idea is possible
@@Alon_Maorcomment left by someone learning that fortnite was originally a PvE game
Speaking as someone who used to guild their Dredgen title every season - An idea I had for invaders was to tie the buffs they receive to the amount of motes they were carrying when they invaded. Like, if you invade while carrying 0 motes then you wouldn't receive any buffs. But, if you invade while carrying 15 motes then you should be a walking monster. A 15 mote invader could be a massive setback for the enemy, but if they die quickly then your team just lost out on all those motes. IMO, more mechanics should play into the name of the game - "Gambit".
I absolutely love Gambit as a concept, and I honestly think it could be the defining gamemode for Destiny if it got the love and support it deserves.
Oh i like that change. But it also might make people not invade at all
@@everythingsalright1121how many times have you seen someone take 15 motes through anyways?
I think that idea meshes well TDT's. Deposit 5 motes minimum to invade (no buffs), 10 motes (over-shield), 15 motes (over-shield & x-ray vision)
@@teaghanotto3465I do it fairly often, wish I could pick up the motes of the players I take down too!
I really like that idea! Though I’d be pretty miffed if my teams invader got blasted instantly
I standby my statement, A good match of gambit where both teams are neck and neck is better than any other playlist activity and crucible match, it’s just so rare it’s like that
I had one where we were there for a good while because both teams had insanely good invaders.
its rare because people dont know how to play gambit, when people dont know how to play something they will call it bad or trash, hench what happened to gambit, tdt said that strategy needs to come back to gambit when in reality it never left, everytime i play gambit without fail there is someone on my team wasting time trying to collect enough motes to bank a large blocker, this prevents us from invading and spawning the prime evil at key moments, people not understanding what is happening in gambit and how to win and what the best methods are for winning are what hurts the mode (that and there not being a trials like experience), drifter will tell you "bank those motes its time for a prime evil, want to win thats how" and a mfer will still waste 30 seconds trying to spawn a large blocker.
Yes, Gambit can be redeemed. It's what brought me into Destiny 2 and I still love it, in spurts. Gambit Prime was truly peak. Bring back those sorts of things. The armor add ons and what things could be. It still has greatness in it.
I admit though, I have to try hard for Gambit to be worth it for me, harder to be casual. With a soild team, I can relax and ding around though. xD
The armour was the peak for me 🙌
I mean, losing just doesn't *feel good.* So with gambit and crucible, it's why we lean forward with blueberries lol
As someone who never liked gambit that much, Prime was really peak
Bungie has had a plethora of mechanics from raids, dungeons, strikes, onslaught, and PVP. They need to consolidate all of their best mechanics and features into this one gamemode.
Here are a few of my ideas to do that:
1) keep gambit the way that it is (As in do not remove anything. However, we're gonna add a lot here)
2) Make gambit operate in rounds, like Trials, and in between those rounds, allow players to buy defenses like in Onslaught, or buffs, like in Riven's lair/Pathways (I forgot which one does it). This can even compliment the role system from prime. This could essentially be using motes to either grab these buffs and defenses to prepare for the late game, or dump all the motes into Primeval summoning to try an early game sweep. Change "banking motes" from just summoning a primeval to actually putting motes into a bank that get saves at the end of a round
3) Give gambit mechanics that drop motes. This would add a TON of variety. Shooting symbols, capturing zones, getting a 4-piece as invader, etc. This lets players utilize their skills that they have gained over the years to guide their team in these mechanics to get an edge over their opponents. AND it will teach players who haven't raided or done many mechanics learn how to do them, and maybe even take away some of the daunt of raiding.
4) Make invaders feel powerful, and make defenders feel even more powerful than that. Being an invader should feel like being a raid boss. Give them high health, and low DPS against players (Except with primaries). This encourages an entire team to focus on taking out the invader, allowing them to roll through them, but if the invader singles out a player, that player will struggle to defeat them, or die trying, while the invader gets a recovery boost from the kill, and the boss' health also gets recovered like normal. However, regardless of if your brought motes with you or not, if you die as the invader, the enemy team gets rewarded with an abundance of motes. However, a good invader, even against 4 players, should be able to take them on and win. This encourages players who are good at PVP to do what they do best, and the players who aren't will know their role, and avoid taking that spotlight. (Also put some kind of invading ban on players who have a negative KD with invading to prevent throwers and idiots).
5) Make the loot the best in class. Balance be damned, if we're playing a game mode that combines PVE and PVP, we need to be getting weapons that are amazing in those respective fields. Make winning feel like going flawless in trials, or getting a raid exotic. Make the armor drops more than just OK. Give them good stat spreads.
6) Take all of these ideas, then separate them into specific gambit modes on a rotator. Make a gambit mode where invading drops the most motes. Make a mode where defenses or buffs are cheaper. Make a mode where you CAN'T buy defenses, or CAN'T invade. Make a mode where you have to do mechanics to unlock the boss' damage phase, even if you have all the motes necessary. There's so much potential for variety that's untapped because bungie hasn't looked towards doing the things they've done best.
7) Finally, update the damned lore. integrate it into the story somehow. let the Cabal or Eliksni have some kind of role with the evolution of the game mode. Give us an in-story reason as to why we still play the game mode. give us voice lines from other characters, like Shaxx commending you for killing 4 players as invader, or Zavala expressing how impressed he is with your tactics in killing a boss. Or even Savathun mocking you for invading and killing fellow guardians. Lore and story engagement is just as important to Destiny as its core gameplay. Insure bungie has learned their lesson from that since D1. If they can't even do that, then they might as well sunset the gamemode, so it can join the expansion it came with.
Thats just my two cents.
Here’s my reformatting idea: 3-5 Mini-Primeavals split up over the 100 motes, each in a different spot. First to 5 primeavals wins. Invaders are thieves, stealing motes and potentially even Primeaval kills, but not killing players, so that an invader becomes a hunt down, not a miserable hide and cower phase. It’s the combination of only having one boss that can be instantly healed, and one good invade that can instantly negate all your work, that makes it feel miserable. This might not be it, but fixing the pacing and the miserable power imbalance of an invade would go a long way. It’s the long set up of the boss, and the feeling of helplessness that a damage boosted wall hack invader brings that ruins it
@@84m30 ^ right here. Agree
I can see it being one of two modes for the game, just like how in comp there are a few objectives.
There definitely should be at least two modes for Gambit, if only for Bungie to playtest things similar to Crucible Labs.
@@robert2german They DID have gambit labs back in season 16. But it never came back.
Invaders don't have boosted damage they have over shield. If you took the time to LEARN how to properly deal with an invader you wouldn't have to hide for the full invasion. I'm not about to sit here and debate the balance of the invasion system let alone the sandbox overall because things can be tweaked in general and the sandbox in ALL of destiny is always an unbalanced mess but my point is most of what you're complaining about is a self created issue. I play a LOT of gambit: gilded every season, lived through every broken meta, and am still carrying people to their Dredgen titles and any other triumph in the playlist they're looking to achieve. The mode has some issues but the pvp is baked in, so limiting it as hard as people are asking for will kill it for the people who actually enjoy it.
The most important part about gambit to me is that it requires you to make sacrifices. When you go into PVE, you take your craziest build making orbs and mowing down combatants. You go into PVP and put on targeting, unflinching mods, and precision weapons. But in gambit, you have to choose and sacrifice being able to defend and attack as an invader or focus on the combatants and get mowed over when you get invaded because you can’t protect yourself.
But unfortunately, the constant barrage of heavy ammo they give you ruins a huge aspect of that.
Laughing in two builds set up for both pre-primeval and post-primeval summon. Trinity ghoul for mote collecting with class ability set to collect all around me when cast, then as soon as drifter calls to bank and I have secured mine, I swap to malfeasance and lucky pants. If I'm not invading to give my team more time to melt, I am there myself melting the primeval. I barely touch my heavy outside of invading since I started that.
no joking, only wish for prime gambit back, was such a cool mode where each fireteam member need to play a specific style
Current gambit isnt that different to prime, they could quite easily just reinstate the armour. Maybe some balancing but shouldnt be too hard
Small error @ 1:22, gambit came out in season of the outlaw (forsaken launch season) gambit prime came out in season of the drifter
They need to add more gambit exclusive exotics and make the rewards worth grinding for
I've been saying for a while now that the old prime weapons and fan favorite base gambit weapons should be brought back as adepts and alloys should be drops in all ritual playlists but what would be worthwhile rewards to you? I don't need anything other than trust, hush, and servant leader (and a stat buff for servant) with modern perks to want to play gambit after my routine seasonal gild so I wanna know what the average player would want out of playing gambit to try it or actively play it.
I'm down for more gambit specific exotics but what would be rewards worth grinding for in your eyes? Personally I want them to implement the old gambit prime system where doing well by completing specific tasks in gambit has a chance to drop a fully masterworked weapon (used to be curated rolls) and make the fan favorite gambit weapons like trust and hush drop as adepts. This will especially be good since the adept mods are getting their penalties removed and we're getting more weapon mods in general. Throw a chance at alloys for playing well and other good currencies in there for end of match rewards too.
Invades with 14 motes at 7:09.
and survived
Us wishing for Gambit to get an update is just a fever dream anyway, so I say fuck it, let's go all out. What gambit would *really* need, is a rolequeue. Before you jump into the game you get a choice of a primary and a secondary role you'd like to get. So say, invader as a primary, and a reaper as a secondary. Then you get matchmade into a game where every team has a player of each role. Secondary roles are backup in case there were a lot of people queuing for one class, then you'd get your backup pick.
poor gambit man i miss prime and reckoning so much i used the grind the hell out of it
My favourite game modes too 😢
They could at least revert to gambit prime and let people select roles at the start of the match.
THIS! How would you guarantee that people play the role they select tho? Could have 2 invaders, and easily lose.
Yeah, selecting roles I think would definitely help. Then everyone knows who's doing what, even when playing with randos.
@@lycaeo everyone can invade but the invader is the only one that get buffed
I used to see this opinion a lot and as someone that got Reckoner, I fail to understand why people seem to have these rose tinted glasses for Prime.
It was, apart from the roles feature, worse than whatever we have right now.
@@XtraCreations I'd argue that the slog of a grind that the Reckoner was actually gives the opposite of rose-tinted glasses, whatever you'd like to call that.
When I was a new light, gambit was the only mode I played. Pvp put me up against players that had way more time and experience on me that I couldn’t really do anything. Strikes were too difficult for my low level characters while gambit was just fine! It taught me about pve and, when I was brave enough to invade, pvp. I love gambit and hold it close to my heart; it was very comforting at a time where my friends refused to let me join them and other activities were too difficult. Seeing it neglected is sad, I love this mode and wish others saw it how I did. Maybe they could bring back gambit prime? They could add a new blocker type; maybe one that completely stops the enemy team. They could give you something that costs 20-25 motes that drops a puzzle on the enemy team, forcing each member to help their team unblock their bank. Currently, it really only takes one person to burn through blockers but having something that requires them all to burn through? That’d be fun! They could maybe add an encounter to gambit that when finished, drops a lot of motes! They could even make it so that invaders can steal from your bank but if they get killed, they drop all of the motes they had+those that were stolen. The drifted says to bring a sword when you are up against the hive; spawn a hive sword to break the primeval’s shield! Use vex heads to take down a vex primeval’s shield and the bombs from dares to take down the shield of a cabal primeval. Switch up the primeval bosses too! There are only a few enemies that the primeval can be, why not give each enemy race different bosses? For the hive, you could make a giant shrieker or an ogre! For the fallen, you could do a giant shank/servitor or a huge brig. I think you get the idea! They could even add the newest enemy types and make lucent hive bosses lightbearers! Maybe make some of the blockers champions of the respective race that is in play - these blockers could be worth more motes and only a set number can be active at one time, preventing the possibility of having three champs at the same time! There’s a lot that can be done to revive gambit, they could simply give gambit really good weapons that players would want to farm for! That’ll bring up engagement! Like riptide in pvp, they need something worth farming for. I know pvp is the booming, as usual, but I know there are funds that could go toward gambit, bungie just needs to take a gamble. Gambit is a good mode, it’s a shame to just sit back and watch it die when in reality, there’s a lot that they could do to fix it. Right now, all they’ve done is make it worse and do the minimal amount of fixing to right their wrong of taking away gambit prime. Shoot me if you don’t agree but anymore, it feels like bungie only cares about dedicating their staff toward making eververse items and catering to the pvp players and big names in the community. Give gambit some love please!
It makes me sad, the Gambit preview back right before Forsaken was one of my favorite experiences in Destiny at the time, and I continued to play it a lot in the first couple weeks of Forsaken. And then... they kind of just stopped supporting it? It has so much potential and could have been such a cool mainstay and yet it's nearly the same as it was when Forsaken released
It was supported the entirety of year 2. Playerbase dropped it unfortunately
@@bansheebrethren797 In part, season of the drifter was to blame imo. Like if Bungie gave us a season where playing base crucible and trials were enhanced, but actually the required activities rather than just optional fun, I'm almost certain there'd be similar backlash and burnout even if initial reception is overall positive
Hi there. 12x Gilded Dredgen here. I think smaller changes could work better. Go back to Prime roles, but make it something you select for yourself at the start of the game or when respawning, and have your UI show in the bottom right who is doing what role so that you can plan around your teammates even while matchmade. Add a more brutal respawn timer upon death to keep people from cheesing (or follow the Halo model and have suicide / switching roles give you a respawn time penalty). And give an aura to all players showing which role they are doing so you can identity your teammates better and target your enemies more strategically.
Hello my 12x Dregden Brother
12x team represent!
Invading needs to have a real element of risk. Respawn timer being huge is a great idea. You could also do something like lose heavy ammo if you die while invading.
@@joes9732 yes! That would be killer!
K
problem is you'd have to hard nerf some stuff like certain heavy's otherwise you can snowball a defeat with honestly no issues.
I think it's interesting the main "isssues" that Mesome discussed are the exact reason I like gambit.
Its the same maps, which I do wish there were more maps but having the same maps lets me focus in on what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, letting me hone in on my strategy easier than speedrunning a strike. I like invasions because guardians feel like how mini-tormentors feel, like a somewhat actually formidable dreg.
I think the thing is that my head is in a totally different space than most. I play gambit because it's perfect for shutting my brain off in a fast paced environment. I play MnK these days, which I suck at, so I can't have fast paced mind-off fun like I would when playing controller. So for me, someone who is generally disinterested with the utter bore of strikes other than for when I get to turn large groups into space fireworks, and isn't good enough at MnK to be able to turn my brain off, Gambit is the perfect gamemode that lets me do pvp, but with the ease of low level pvp. So for me, its the perfect combination of a small map where I can compound my knowledge, and it has easy groups of enemies to turn into space fireworks.
Bring back Gambit Prime as a ranked mode with a visible leader board - At reset, grant the highest Gambit ranked players lots of loot or large amounts of bight dust or engrams. Add exclusive exotics, Ornaments, and cracked guns to chase. Gambit-specific guns with armor and gun perks that are dedicated to Gambit, i.e., Pick up double motes, 10% more damage when invading, or 10% more damage to majors, etc.
Gambit could be peak Destiny.
The invades, the blaring alarm, getting insta-gibbed by a redbar, wallhacks, invade timer time too long. But mostly how many freaking invades
Before the primeeval phase you get 2 invades and if the enemy team gets their boss first you don't have to deal with invaders anymore until you get yours... how is that too many invasions? The invader has like 30secs to make a play with a bright red beacon on them and VERY predictable spawns. One player has to call out the invaders location and now their advantage of surprise and dropping players one by one is gone because they're literally on the clock. Yea they have wall hacks when not aiming and an overshield but if you just learn how the gamemode flows and how to play without crutching on an easy to use exotic or solo supering it is not hard in the slightest and can be really fun.
I think the role buffs should be something you select before the match when everyone is standing in the drifter's ship, rather than being activated on the bank. it would be like the card selection during the season of the witch activities.
Or just additional mods.
@@Spheronic I like the idea of additional mods but I'd rather not have to waste mod energy on roles or have to farm out a whole nother armor set just for gambit especially with the stats that ritual armor drops with 😅. Maybe something like a nightfall card or artifact kinda system where you have a separate menu that has a certain amount of points with the different rolls in rows and certain buffs cost more points to pick. Kinda like how COD ghost did it's perk system.
@@ShadowNemesis575 That works. Just something where you can configure them pre-game.
Bonus points if competative gambit comesbacks and locks your selection light nighfall or pvp.
I don't want a whole separate armor system but something like a ghost mod could work
@@ShadowNemesis575 Could make the gambit mods work the way raid ones do currently, but retroactively applying the slot to all armor (use the same slot on current raid armor too, not like anybody would want to use a raid mod in a match anyway). Probably more system intensive than the artifact menu idea you proposed though-
@15:40 I’ve always wanted the idea of having to escape through the enemies portal. You could also have a game mode where someone at random is chosen to “invade”, and their job is to instead of getting kills, trying to survive and escape. Each kill you get can provide some benefit (such as heavy on return), but dying costs the team motes from their bank.
Gambit: Castaway.
Gambit also needs like a week long big event, like how PVP has Iron Banner.
Something to get players to come and play for like a week because there's lots of cool rewards and it gets those seasonal challenges done. Just like Saladin, the Drifter moves into the center of the tower, so you're reminded "Hey, Gambit exists. I should give it a go."
It would need a new gamemode, either Gambit Prime with the ability changes in the video, or like "Competitive Gambit" where the map and Enemy type are always the same (rotating each day), plus some sort of combat modifier. Then you have a competitive rank and rank based matchmaking, plus maybe at the end of the week, you get a bonus reward based on your rank, rank resets each episode.
More Details below:
The event should have an exclusive weapon and armor set each episode, and maybe the regular gambit weapons can drop with a new origin perk in the mode. There could also be an event exclusive memento, shader, emblem, and title.
There should also be a new vendor reputation track that grants extra rewards and focusing, with challenges to increase rep gains. Plus that week should be an increased gambit rep week.
Trials of Drifter
Gambit Prime released in Drifter, base Gambit was released with Forsaken. Also, fun fact, Gambit had a fun little beta a few weeks before the release of Forsaken.
Gambit at its best, when it first came out, was some of the most excitement i ever experienced playing the game.
The issue I think is to improve the meta and experience means larger maps and redesigns that might not be acheivable with their netcode.
12 player excision can accept some desync, a large scale gambit mode might not be possible.
I love the gamemode, it is unironically the reason I log in to play. It's quicker than a strike, it rewards me for learning the cycles, enemy types, player meta choices. I LOVE GAMBIT. I know it needs a shakeup but ultimately the D2 Community is killing it with making it the constant punchline. It could have the best loot in the world and it still wouldn't be played unless we as a community give it more respect.
As a gambit player.. YES. These would be some great changes. Bungie should take some note lol
I remember when Gambit came out, I compared it to Halo 5 Warzone, another PvE/PvP hybrid mode that I think was a lot more successful. I remember how minibosses would spawn near both teams at the same time and instead of joining the teammates to kill my own miniboss, I could run to the other side of the map, kill a few enemy players, and then steal their kill on their miniboss. Near the end of the game when there's a super big boss that worth enough points for either team to win if they get the kill, you would have to decide not to shoot the boss but flank the other team instead to cause as much havoc as possible and buy your team some time. You would hijack their tank, backsmack the other players, and be a nuisance as long as possible to deny them the final blow. It was cool because the PvE and PvP weren't separate from each other at all. But in Gambit, you're playing on two separate maps, and you're pretty much either fighting players or fighting the enemy AI. The closest thing you get to an overlap between those two is when you're trying to fight an enemy invader, but even then you're just ignoring the other enemies as much as you can help it. It is really just not a unified experience.
1:16 Gambit actually released in season of the outlaw gambit prime released in season of the drifter.
An idea for Gambit Heavy Ammo.
Players start with a set amount of Heavy Ammo at the start of a match, but are locked out of gaining any more Heavy Ammo during the match.
It is quite simple ... Revert it to Gambit Prime and let players select a Collector, Reaper, Sentry or Invader buff during the intro period (maybe slightly extend the time by 5-10 sec) and then put an applicable holographic icon (like we get during Guardian Games) to our head or sleeve for the role. The biggest problem with GP was you had to procure, update and then wear the armour essentially three times. Signed --- a solo Reckoner.
But the armour was 100x cooler
Kind of prefer Mesome's (TDT) idea of making choosing a role an active choice of gameplay through interacting with the bank.
@@LilNika117 you can always wear or transmog it after getting it from from the legacy tab. That way you could even advertise to your teammates in the intro what your preferred role is (or alternatively just let ppl queue up as a certain role and have each team have 1 of each...)
@@CBeavr I don't think it has the glow anymore 😢 it was also cool to have another list of stats next to your stats for how many pieces you had on but I get it if having multiple armours is too long for people
@@LilNika117 they could easily bring the cosmetic glow back when you're actually that role in gambit
You have some really good ideas. I'd love all of then implemented honestly. I like gambit, but I can easily understand why it's not popular
An easy change to invader spawning they could make right now would be to allow you to interact with the invader portal to choose where you spawn.
If they have the time to go crazy, you could put a little minimap like the one on scourge of the past to show where the enemy team is. Might even have a strategy where you have a player calling out enemy locations to the invader, but at the cost of a whole body on motes
As someone that used to only play Gambit (and still enjoy it to this day despite the issues), it really does make me sad when I hear people complaining about how it should be removed. Yes it heavily needs improvements, but I believe that it can bring a font of new players and people can enjoy it.
Also, glad to see that you thought about using the role system from Prime, cause that was one of my favorite parts of it. I’ve grown as a player, but I still try to rush the invasion portal every time it opens to try and get a team kill. But I’m more willing to let others take it and focus on making motes for the team.
Okay. I got an idea.
For start the reimagined variant... mote gathering as normal, but blockers get sent to ascendant plane type of arena instead of locking the bank. At certain point both teams get pulled to arena. Kill the taken to drain enemy bank and kill opponents to stop them from draining yours. In final rush we can instead use the portals, and eager invaders can duel for a buff against primeval, or in case a team is behind help to close the gap. To incentivize there are couple options. Either zone cap for buff in case of no show, or a debuff to both teams till duel has a victor. I feel structured like this players would be constantly battling both players and other enemies.
Less extravagant option is bringing the roles back. Maybe as just class items or Dares of Eternity type buff for a role to be picked at the beginning.
You are 100% correct when it comes to what Gambit needs. Not only does the game lack strategy, people at this stage of the game don't even bother to try.
I absolutely love your ideas especially the invading ideas. It is crazy that somebody will stand by the portal the entire match and do nothing while the rest of us work. It gives people no chance to improve their invading skills, and that is essential to learn The Invasion points of the map, to create surprise, and to dominate the other side during invasion.
I never use heavy when invading anyway. I rely too much on my bows or on my Scout rifles when I do invade, and I keep my heavy for killing the Primeval.
I think we do need to go in roles when it comes into Gambit, and updated the mods in ways you recommend as well as changing the roles definitely would add an element of fun strategy in my book. Most people don't go into play with strategy in mind, and when I gather with a group of friends to play Gambit, strategy is the number one thing that we do. And, when we play against another group that uses strategy as well the game actually becomes super fun.
The sad fact of the matter is, people do enjoy Gambit, AND Bungie doesn't care. I don't even think they actually cared what they introduced the game mode to begin with. I feel that Bungie just added the game mode to shut up people who were complaining. And, it worked for a while.
I absolutely hate PVP and I absolutely hate Crucible. However, the PVP aspect of gambit is totally lacking.
I'm not entirely on board with all the perks but it could be implemented in like a labs mode to see how it all plays out, it would definitely require mics to get the full benefit of that system.
Removing the wall hacks and overshield of the invader would be a good thing along with removing the invasion time window, removing invader glow and sound when nearby to compensate. Also allowing the invader to exfil and being rewarded for doing so would be a very fun aspect. (let's say motes collected on the other side and if you successfully exfil with them they're worth double when banked or if bank 15 motes on them you spawn a heavy crate at your bank, makes you weigh the reward of 30 motes in your bank or more heavy for you and your allies in a very convenient location.) A mote cost to invade would also be very welcome, invading should be a gamble of paying off big or backfiring.
Increase motes required to spawn primeval to 125 or 150, let's slow the match's down slightly.(but increase vendor rep gained to compensate).
Dialing back the heavy ammo would also be good, I was thinking more across the lines of high value targets only drop heavy and special but no longer motes and you collect slightly less heavy from bricks (normal amount of heavy from crates), no more heavy after each wave. Also bricks now have a timer so all players need to weigh that risk reward of should I be clearing ads and collecting motes or should I run for heavy. Less heavy would also make invaders and dps rolls more stingy on when they use heavy (should I use heavy to invade? On the boss? Save it for if we get invaded?)
Health gates on primeval and envoys are in place for a reason, deleting bosses was a serious problem and we don't even need heavy to do it.
Loot incentive is not completely there either. I've reset drifter 7 times already this season, there's nothing really worth your time besides Breakneck and even then Breakneck is more nostalgic than good and I'll be real Orgin Story completely out classes it in both pve and pvp. There has to be better weapons that make people say "I NEED that gun". (Bygones with juiced perks would probably do it).
I also think an adept system should be implemented (not sure how) and that would give the loot a little more incentive to grind for. But also adepts have smaller perk pools to make them not impossible to get a good roll.
Also the orgin trait needs a rework, the bonus to sprint speed is cool but it needs an extra benefit like a temporary boost to your handling/reload speed and can be refreshed, that would actually give it some appeal in both pvp and pve.
I would totally play Gambit SUBSTANTIALLY more if these changes were made. I don’t think I disagreed with a single one. Hope Bungie sees this, a role based game mode much like MOBA’s and other competitive shooters seems like such a no brainer
The only thing holding gambit back is the dude on your team with 14 motes determined to deposit 15 when your team is at 95 total. Gambit is really fun and competitive when everyone on both teams knows what they’re doing, but that’s rarely the case. They definitely need to update invader spawns and I do agree limiting heavy and maybe bring back roles could help with snowballing matches, but at the end of the day it’s a race between two teams. I still enjoy it very much. More gambit exotics would always be welcomed :)
I remember when my teamate had 15 and instead of going to bank them, decided to keep killing ads...they died.
Really liked all the ideas , just one note a lot of the ideas seamed to lengthen the game time which might not be good for the playlist. Would love to see the community gather and discuss gambit . Cammycakes seems to enjoy gambit quite a lot so maybe a discussion with him if possible would be a good idea.
Great video
I personally played quite a lot of gambit in those last weeks and think that the core problem with this mode is that it just doesn't feel fair. Invasions and the boss phase carry to much weight while the collecting and banking motes part that takes the longes time of the match is almost irrelevant for the outcome because the boss is way way way to easily cheesable with the right weapons. I think a good solution for this would be to split the match in 4 parts/phases and for each part you get points. There would be 3 short phases of collecting motes and the last phase is the boss, the 3 collecting motes phases all score you one point and the boss phase scores two points. With this solution you could not just win with cheesing the boss your team would have to win at least one of the collecting motes phases as well and I would heavily limit the invasions as well. I think this would make gambit overall a lot fairer
Onslaught has the answer IMO. Provide structures that players can build, with a 'shared gain, spent individually' currency provided by banking.
-Spend to unlock & upgrade the invasion portal to reduce it's cooldown (but give it a lengthy cooldown at low tier)
-Sentry turrets to counter blocker spam or punish invaders
-A 'radar jammer' to disable the invader's wallhacks or hide mote counts, upgrade it enough to mark invaders
-An 'ammo dispenser' instead of providing free heavy, so it comes as a deliberate choice over other options for risk & reward
-Upgrade the bank itself to increase the strength of your blockers, and at higher tiers allow you to hold 20 motes to drop big blockers
-And lastly, add small mini events that reward more currency to spend but add challenge to both sides, like minibosses & time sensitive capture points
As a gambit fanboy, I don’t really think that’s the right solution. It would pretty much completely change the feel of the gamemode.
I love the idea of making gambit really leaning into the fantasy of what it sounds like. These are all good points brother.
I think what you've proposed is too many changes off the bat but it is an interesting concept.
An easy fix for current Gambit is when Invaders invade, give them the Crucible ammo (2 special ammo, NO heavy), and more Primeval health and that's it.
I think they should then also add Gambit Prime back as a more competitive mode and all the armors. In this they could experiment more with a whole bunch of stuff.
Gambit is my favorite game mode and I would LOVE for it to get some positive attention by Bungie
What made Gambit feel amazing at the preview event was the locked premade loadouts everyone had to use. And very early in forsaken when we were weaker and metas hadnt been established.
Which... If this game was ever going to be considered "competitive" premade loadouts would be required for modes like Gambit and Competitive crucible. I know it goes against the spirit of the game, but its what ruins things like Gambit.
Everyone has their omega builds with full heavy for invades and quick boss burns. The original primeval system where you had to keep stacking the buff to actually do decent damage was great. But its rare to see a game where a team makes it to envoy phase 3 and doesnt instantly destroy the boss.
Everything that would make the game mode more fun and feel fair and balanced are things everyone would hate.
Make a heavy ammo crate cost 30 motes. Or outright ban heavy weapons, that solves 50% of the problem.
Have the drifter say you have to wear your special gambit garb to compete for lore reasons (give everyone a set of armor with even split 50 stats worn for just Gambit that you could customize with the buffs from Prime)
Alternatively, you could have a "role select" option at the start of each match.
These roles could also have the afformentioned premade loadouts.
Make gambit happen in maps not specifically designed for it. Gambit in midtown could be fun. You could literally just place a mote bank in the center of most crucible maps and it would work.
Maybe the primeval is up and roaming around like a tormentor all game long but you cant even do real damage to him until youve banked 50+ motes. And you can keep dunking motes to keep stacking a debuff on him, the more motes dunked the weaker he gets. With the sweet spot for a speedy kill around 125-150, forget the envoys, just keep spawning enemies and make it all about the motes.
I am sure there are plenty of other ideas, but gambit needs BIG changes to format, not just small tweaks.
I love these ideas. I wasn't really active on the game during Gambit Prime, it sounds like it should be the default state of Gambit. It was my favorite game mode for a time, but the lack of complexity makes it very boring after a few games now. It's a missed opportunity, and I think it can and should be saved.
Ideas:
Invader portal:
Dunk 5: normal
invader death: heavy brick
Dunk 10: +overshield
invader death: heavyx2
Dunk 15: +"wallhacks"
invader death: +15 motes to enemy.
Reaper:
1. Mark powerful targets that take more damage. (Primordial included)
2. Defeating powerful targets and multikills spawn special ammo.
3. Spawn 20% more motes, your motes last longer.
4. Defeating powerful targets grants grenade surge.
Collector:
1. On death drop all motes for others to collect.
2. Collecting a mote grants 1/5 overshield, shooting motes collects them.
3. Dunking motes reloads weapons and grants a damage buff.
4. Can carry 20 motes and send giant blockers.
Sentry:
1. 1 mote gives three but dunking only gives 1/3 of points to primordial
(Collect 5, Dunk 15 send large blocker but only 5 points towards primordial).
2. While carrying motes get speed boost.
3. While carrying motes you deal more damage to taken and invaders.
4. Sending blockers spawns defenders (friendly blockers) at your bank (limited number).
Invader:
1. When going throug the portal reload all weapons.
2. Dunking to activate portal sends a blocker.
3. While not invading you can see the enemy team (translucent red character models) in your map as well as their class and role.
(An enemy titan collector dunks in their bank, you see it on your bank).
4. while invading spawns a 12m radius smoke around the bank.
(Possiblity that those that choose the invader role can see through the smoke, invading or defending)
1:19 - Slight correction, Gambit was released with Forsaken. Gambit Prime was released with Drifter. While minor, it's an important distinction as for a time Gambit had 2 variations splitting the player-base, but also providing an opportunity to actively see which variation played better with each sandbox.
My first game in gambit after a year, yesterday, got me the Final Warning catalyst that I've prestiged Zavala 3 times this season trying to get.
Gambit is goated in my eyes, now!
I love these ideas
another idea me and a friend were cooking up is random "mini-banks" that can spawn around the map, and require a high amount of motes to bank but spawn a SPECIAL blocker on the other side depending on enemy faction
imagine spawning a Wyvern when Vex are on the field, or a random Lightbearer Hive when Lucent Hive are the enemy, or a Tormentor for Shadow Legion (and when Dread get added, a Subjugator)
Something that i would like to see is a way to pve players impact on the enemy team. I imagine some event with few enemies where the team that wipe them first will drain points of the slower team
i think in addition, to the proposed portal escape, i think it'd be cool to see the invader, *steal* motes by standing on/near the bank, it would be as if there is a blocker on the bank, and drain it, give it the same alarm and voice alert from drifter as if there is a blocker, but drain *slightly* slower, meaning that there is now, even more risk/reward.
theres so many ways to make an, alternative mode for gambit that could be much more enjoyable and fun. its my favorite game mode, and im glad to see this video bring its appeals and flaws to light.
I feel like they should bring back the old class system, but have it not being tied to armours. So the pvpers can queue for invader/defender, and only they can invade/get a big boost against invaders while pvpers can queue for slayer so they can focus on out mobclearing the enemy team.
Like the dreaded role queue of many mobas/hero shooters.
I would slightly alter the “banking motes for invasion” idea by not limiting the cost to 5 motes
Spending a different amount of motes gives more time and more guardians allowed to kill before the invader is eventually kicked out. At 5 motes, let it be 7 seconds and 3 guardians before leaving. At 10, it’s be current invasion. At 15, give 20 seconds of invasion and allow 6 guardians to go down. And if your collector banks 20 motes for you, give 35 seconds to run rampant with as many guardian kills as you can rack up in that time limit
Make invasions costly to your team by draining a large amount of motes, but rewarding to pull off with lots of guardian kills, and let Collectors give some extra bonuses to the Invader to encourage teamwork between roles
Ofc, the other ideas presented would still stand, but invasions being a larger…well, GAMBIT by draining your whole motes amount would be very interesting methinks
the Gambit Prime roles made Gambit feel alive, or like my gameplay mattered. Currently, it feels a lot like you're just at the mercy of matchmaking and whether you're pitted against or teamed up with a 2- or 3-stack. Being able to use roles that you're able to lock in sounds fantastic, and is definitely a much better way to bring back the Prime roles without bringing back everything to do with getting the original armors
I saw this in the destiny forums about simplified versions of the Gambit Prime roles and it sounded interesting, albeit maybe a bit strongarmed into picking a single role.
Reaper
- Combat High - Multikills grant increased handling, reload speed and movement speed for you and nearby allies.
- Elemental Rounds - Defeating powerful combatants has a chance to grant debuffing rounds to weapons based on the final blow's element.
(Jolt, Scorch, Volatile, Slow, Unravel, Tremor)
Sentry
- Anti Taken Rounds - Grants increased weapon damage against blockers when 2 or more are present. Weapon damage is further increased when surrounded by Taken.
- Invader's Bane - Damaging an Invader will mark them for you and your allies for the remainder of their invasion. Sustained damage from a Sentry reduces the Invader's damage output.
Collector
- Extra Large Blockers - Able to carry a maximum of 20 motes, which sends a Taken Champion blocker that drains motes faster. Mote draining cannot be interrupted when a Champion blocker is present.
- Invader Robber - Defeating an Invader drops an increased amount of motes. During the Primeval phase, defeating an Invader drops special ammo for you and your allies.
Invader
- Surgical Invasion - While invading, defeating Guardians with precision final blows grants special ammo for you and your allies. Defeating all 4 unique Guardians with precision final blows grants heavy ammo for you and your allies. Ammo is granted when the Invader returns.
- Fortified Heist - When the Invader is nearby, the opposing team's bank is closed, mote draining is accelerated and grants an overshield to nearby Taken up to a maximum of targets. When close to the Primeval, Primeval Slayer stacks are reduced by 1.
Love all the ideas mentioned here! I would like to see some kind of ability to mark the invader to a special enemy unit for a short time. It would be fun and strategic for the team being invaded to send a taken unit giving them an indicator as to where the invader is apart from only having your teammates’ ghosts as the indicator. For the invader it would then be a case of waiting for the debuff to expire or plan a route that avoids the enemy to keep an element of surprise or burning it down quickly and then repositioning! Could have the strength of the taken affected by banking motes at the invader portal when an invader is present!
I really like your invasion ideas!! Having the portal require motes would keep players from just camping the portal for the entire match. But maybe instead of banking them to the portal, you have to carry them through it, which makes invading just a tiny bit riskier
15:05 Better idea: make heavy exchangeable for motes. Then you have the dilemma of banking or accumulating heavy and still less immediate invasions. There’s always a surplus of motes that nobody picks up, so this would encourage more collecting.
I think people dont liek gambit because it is the game mode where you feel least "in control" of your teams fate. The punishment for being raided is high and you get angry at your team when it happens. When you feel you can fix the issue and raid their team, somebody you likely hate for getting clapped earlier is already taken the portal.
This game mode just cultivates a hatred for your own team unlike any other game mode (maybe trials pugs). They should make raid tokens per player, invasion tokens should be awarded for staying alive/killing mobs. They should not be shared. If you want to open the portal for anybody, you should be able to spend your invasion token to do so
Honestly if they just give us more maps with interesting dynamics that’ll work just fine… we only have FOUR MAPS.
Dont forget the recently returned dreaming city map that ive yet to see and the other tangled shore map that for some reason wasnt brought back for...reasons?
An idea that could work for Gambit takes a bit of the Rogue-lite element but also some of what Pantheon brought as well as Onslaught. An endless horde mode that allows you to choose a new buff every few waves to try getting as far as possible with the slow increase in difficulty and unique changes that come with it. Even having a Dungeon encounter at times play out. Should remain an 8 player activity to see how it goes but can grant adept loot with higher drop chances and extra perks the further you get. Gambit has so much potential for what you can do.
I've been talking about it a bunch with friends. I love your change ideas, and also wanted to propose something additional.
Gambit prime as Gambit's version of an adept activity.
Before you proposed your changes our idea was the room before you enter you choose a role, and have to win on each role in a row to go to the envoy and receive adept gambit drops.
It's clearly flawed but I thought it would take the least amount of changes to impliment.
What do you guys think an adept gambit activity could be?
Because tbh, are people doing strikes???? Like ik people do pvp for fun but no one does normal strikes for anything but drops, people are doing nightfalls. Adept loot encourages people to enter and try it out. I feel like if they add your changes in then it would be the perfect time to release some adept gambit activity. Cuz I KNOW I would grind that shit out. Only issue is it taking away from Trials... Perhaps it comes up when Iron Banner is in rotation and is up for the full week instead of just the weekend?
Those changes are great but one idea for Gambit I had was simple, Gambit: Siege.
A mode where the primeval is buffed up massively and always there. Want to damage it? Bank motes, reduced number from 100. Maybe add some of the relics, namely the aegis. 6v6, duo invasions, but definitely reduced buffs and no primeval healing on kills, instead invaders counter the bank and motes, while their on the field you can't damage the boss regardless of mote status.
I'd also remove large blockers and add a feature where finishing a mote set to allow you to dps the boss triggers an ad wave on the enemy bank, not in the enemy areas, on the bank. Or in short: I want an onslaught type mode for gambit with some tweaks obviously.
Another idea: Gambit: Triad, it's gambit but there's three teams. I really do think gambit needs fixing but we do also need more modes, this game mode has the seeds of greatness in it, more so than I think any other part of this game, I just hope the devs are allowed to both work on it again and to push the envelope.
Man, now i REALLY wanna play TDT-Gambit
20:00
If the Portal has multiple slots for different types of Champions, then in really high-level play, a skilled Invader could communicate with the Collector, and tell them which weapon types the enemy players have, (especially the Sentry,) so they could pick the more difficult Champion for the enemy team. Like, if the Artifact has Overload Pulses and Unstoppable Autos, and the enemy Sentry has an Auto Rifle, the Collector could choose and Overload, since they know the Sentry might need help to deal with it. (The Sentry might also invest in a build that can deal with all 3 types, either using all 3 weapons for it, and possibly using Heavy ammo on a blocker instead of the Primeval, or use subclass verbs to do it. Either way, it would reward someone who "mains sentry" to build into the role both in (with role points) and out of the actual match.)
It would reward communication and strategy from the other team, and encourage more appreciation for an Invader who can recognize what weapons the enemy team is using. (Especially if they can do so without reading it from the death screen)
THESE IDEAS ARE AWESOME!
I really hope Bungie does SOMETHING with Gambit, there's so much potential!
Changes to fix gambit.
1) Make it a 6v6 (for a reason)
2) make "invasions" more frequent by charging the gates with motes, and allow up to 2 at a time per team (one per gate activation).
3) invaders have to fight eachother. Kills generate blockers. Deposits no longer generate blockers, but instead charge the invasion gate. Surviving for X time (30 seconds or whatever) in the invasion gate kicks you out and also generates a blocker.
1: make gambit a race to the end in parallel longer than now, mini 4 man raids
2: randomly pick invaders
3: those invaders battle then the winner will have to battle a mini boss
3A: multiple invader battles at set times
4: give the battle winner’s whole team extra buffs as rewards
5: no primeval healing
6: first to kill their end boss wins
I still maintain the best way to fix gambit is to limit ammo based on performing your role. Heavy and special are always pain points, either too random or too free. If they were tied to playing your role well, hunting HVTs, banking 20 drops, could provide heavy and special for the whole team.
Love the role roguelike idea too, that's genius. Would make every gambit match unique.
Good video, I'm going to share it with the Gambit enthusiasts in my clan!
Couple of ideas my friends and I had:
Set some objectives that are away from the ad clearing to activate the portal.
Reduce PVP damage by a significant amount + buff the invaders health and invasion time.
Add champions to the ad clearing.
2:22 I love this, they made some half assed changes that didn’t address the issues people had with Gambit, made no follow up changes (a necessity whenever you make adjustments), and then threw their hands up and blamed us for the lack of engagement.
Something that might shake it up. One single map both teams are on.
Like Halo 5s warzone almost.
This would require very different maps, but without consistent player interaction, the mode runs like clockwork and you can predict the end of the game based on the first invasion
Disable heavy when an invasion is happening.
Tada
Edit: Yeah your idea is better
honestly most people that have an issue with gambit just don't understand the gamemode and its gameplay properly. you're running around with primaries in a gamemode with infinite special and heavy on a build that makes no sense for the goal of the mode
if you ever want to take a genuine shot at learning to enjoy the gamemode, there's information out there that shows you how its played effectively. and when played effectively, it IS a fun and competitive mode
15:00 The flaw I see in your invader recommendations is this:
Lets say, invader is a decent player, but gets merc'd pretty early before dealing damage. Now the enemy invader gets to invade with heavy ammo. This tilts the slide too far into the team that decides to invade second.
At best, both teams have equally good invaders, so it becomes a back and forth of heavy ammo.
At worst, the team that invades second goes in and absolutely stomps the other team because they have heavy ammo.
There is also the scenario of "who makes the first move" standoff, where neither side wants to risk giving the other team heavy ammo, so nobody invades.
I'd say keep the heavy ammo spawns as is, albeit with a much longer spawn timer, or with less ammo given per drop.
Brilliant rework, but i feel that we’re still lacking variety in terms of wave based “follow the drifter” gameplay. It would be fun to incorporate new types of HVTs like a bandit who could attack both teams banks or something akin to the ‘unkillable thrall’ from overthrow. As well, combo waves could offer a greater degree of choice and depth in where and how players choose to slay out. Naturally this needs some pretty intense refinement but, in total, it would address the core of the staleness brought in the current 3-scene model.
Outstanding ideas and takes! 10/10 video
Fever dream rework pitch here, leaning fully into the chaos of Gambit but some of my idea was brought in line by just how much dev time this would require:
Gambit enemy density was increased by 20% (or 2 or more sides of a gambit map spawns enemies) at the same time, reintroduce Gambit class system but allow players interchange roles during gameplay, allow Gambit class perks to be free form and interchanged (all four guardians can have invader perks or Reaper perks, two guardians can be sentry while one is invader and one is collector, etc., tied in with TDT's idea), perks are progressively unlocked through banked mote progress and can be acquired by any guardian on the team (if you choose collector, More motes per death perk at 25 team motes, Overshield for mote pick-ups granted at 50%, ammo when banking at 75%, etc.)(basically TDT's Idea with the bank @ 11:25 ), perks are given like bonuses (akin to Breach executable bonuses when banking, for simpler implementation) both teams start with max reserves and heavy crates no longer spawn until final phase (explained below), invaders are incentivized to use heavy wisely, Invader hunters (large enemies designed to nusance invaders) have heavy drop chance and invaders have heavy drop chance, invader is always allowed to invade at the cost of 5 motes (TDT's idea), bar the first 30 seconds of a match and can spawn on the enemy side until half time and final phase (explained below), A large enemy (based on chosen enemy faction at the start of a match) aids each team in specifically hunting the invader, The boss for each team is always on map instead of at the end and is less lethal, gaining lethality with each damage checkpoint, having with WAAAY more health with 6 damage checkpoints instead of 3 (akin to a raid boss) while red bar kills increase your damage to said boss and invader kills add a huge increase to boss damage, Prime Evil's spawn only during halftime with large mote drops, banking motes not only increase damage to the boss but give Relics to use against combatants at mote thresholds along side class perks and send invaders back home at each mote threshold, Max mote value at 100 motes banked wll be max mote benefits reached, invader defeats are worth increased boss damage, HVT's spawn after each damage checkpoint now, a halftime introducing random encounters (akin to speacial rounds in the onslaught game mode) like a mini boss, scorn invasion, cabal turrets, mine capture zones, etc. interrupt the flow and send the invader back home automagically for the remainder of the halftime and begins a one minute timer before the portal reopens after halftime ends, halftime is initiated for both teams on both sides, initiating twice a match unless both teams reside in a 3% threshold difference in boss health at the start of either teams half time, enemies in halftime drop increased motes, when A boss reaches 10% health final phase begins, sending the invader back 1 last time, clears the map and locks all current bonuses to damage in place, and begins a final stand of sorts, becoming faster and more deadly by a vast margin (possibly introducing raid mechanics like Fireteam Focus Campaign missions do). Ramping damage bonuses should allow match times to reach similar values as the current sandbox. Rewards at the end of gambit are affected by the wining team (1) how much the invader did to cause ruckus (2) HVT kills (3) and Gambit reset amount (4), featuring chances to receive increased ingram drops for performance to coincide with the increase of player agency and difficulty.
New Mode: Boss Rush Battle (basically mini pantheon with invasions in between).Bosses are not complicated, just kill. 5 random bosses with increasing health each boss and invasions every 3 minutes (? unsure if this is a good time frame, wanna keep invaders working) with the standard invader timer.
This was honestly just me coming up something on the spot, I love gambit and wana see it thrive
Yappinator 3000
Man, even just learning about Prime's roles, I'm sad that I missed Gambit Prime. It looks like just the kind of thing I was looking for in Gambit when I played it last: a way to play around your teammates' strengths. Because I was never any good at PvP, I would just run around the map killing enemies and banking motes, and it often felt like I was playing by myself anyway.
I love everything you said. I think there should also be a mode where you can take a break from the monotony of Gambit. Hear me out:
Gambit Mayhem.
Ability and super boosts like crucible, ads the equivalent to Excision, 500-1000 mote banks, scorch cannons, Drake tanks and relics. Invaders can suppress a team but if they fail, they suppress their own team. Primevals can be old raid bosses.
One of the recommendation have the ability to register your team and have a team leader board at the tower next to the drifter teams would compete. They have their names at the top of that leaderboard.
Something that could make the gambit loot more valuable, make some of the weapons work better with each roll, like alacrity on trials weapons. So something like breakneck would auto reload after a kill as a collector while the sniper can give the invader an enhanced radar until they are back, something to make the weapons more worthwhile to grind for
I'm VERY interested in your take of a Roguelike Gambit role system. As an 11x Dredgen, soon to be 12x, this would breathe so much life back into Gambit.
I think I love every single one of your ideas. One thing that I hate currently is how little health primevals have and how quickly you get to the next immune phase. I HATE cooking the boss and having it become immune within 10 or less seconds.
I personally enjoyed gambit during the gambit prime days and would love to see it make a comeback. In addition to the points you brought up, a possible solution could be for you to pick your role before you que up and matchmaking is done with making sure the team has one player on each role. Loading times are probably gonna suffer a little bit though. Also, I know lfg is a pain, but that can be a route to pre-fill your team with each role
As a Gambit main I love this video! Lethal defense sounds great giving how big of a target us invaders are while invading. They should also take away the loud noise of the invader as well. Make the team work for survivability.
Bank robber is probably my favorite that you mentioned. If you’re going to take away the wall hacks which I personally have no problem with, make it harder for the enemy team to bank motes or clear the prime evil. As someone who is mainly an invader it would be very annoying if I invade just to notice the other team is camping for the ENTIRE 30 seconds because they know I can’t see them. That’s on a whole different level if cheesy.
Great video though! Hope we can get an update in the future :)
Note: Gambit Prime was introduced in Season of the Drifter, not Gambit itself. That was introduced alongside Forsaken
It seems like Bungie's goal in recent times with Gambit was to make it simpler to understand. I could see some of the more sweeping changes being made to the base version, and then Gambit Prime being brought back to introduce the "rogue-like" role system proposed.
1. Use existing PvP maps to make new Gambit maps. Its cheap and easy.
2. Give envoys random spawn locations and make them tougher.
3. Make primeval encounters feel like raid damage phases.
4. Add vaulted loot to the loot pool for gambit. Vaulted raid weapons + armor as well as weapons, armor, cosmetics, etc. from previous years of D2.
6. Give Gambit a "Trials" mode with artifice armor and adept weapons.
With the Vendor Engram system in place position armors are in a good place to come back and would incentivize dedicating time to the mode. Now not only are you chasing that 5/5 Gnawing Hunger but also those 66-67 rolled Sentry pieces. Bringing back the specific roles also organizes gameplay on an individual basis, if you see a Collector with 17 motes you know to guard them and not go out of your way to steal those last 3 motes they need for 20.
Just want to throw in my 2 cents as a part-time gambit enjoyer.
1. Bonuses for banking motes is a good idea, but it depending on the slot might slow things down a bit
2. Invasions are alright as is IMO, since a good amount of people don’t invade even with virtually no risk. The power of the invader is countered pretty well by the timer and predictable spawns.
3. Roles coming back isn’t a great solution to me, I would just bring back invaders locking the bank and the 20 more blocker, maybe as bonuses for banking
4. The boss fight could definitely do without the health gate, and some different ways to get the damage boost, maybe even making it time limited.
5. Not sure how to balance heavy, since I mostly use it to invade/kill invaders.
Make Gambit function like Exoprimal and I think it'd have a shot. Every match has different phases with different objectives as you go through the map: Payload, eliminate targets, kill a boss, etc. The final phase can be PVE or PVP (and you can queue for both or specifically one or the other). PVE phases are usually races in separate levels but there's still a similar invasion mechanic that the team falling behind can use to come back so the current standard Gambit mode could still fit. PVP phases will be have you fighting for objectives against the enemy team while PVE enemies spawn in: Control, payload race, one where you're both fighting over a single objective. Your role improvements would make it perfect.
I believe player count would go up because 1. People who really want the competition and/or pvp can queue specifically for that (maybe a comp mode if it's successful and incentivized enough) 2. Players that just want to complete specific quests or challenges can queue for the mode that best helps them 3. Players that just enjoy the mode can queue for both 4. Immense variety with variability of objectives/maps and enemies within as well as the players in each match. It'd be the absolute closest to a rogue light in Destiny we could get I think. There'd need to be brand new maps to make the most out of the gamemode but if you include large PVP and Onslaught maps or patrol areas that already exist, I think those could be good substitutes. I desperately want this in Destiny so there's more to do than repeating the exact same missions over and over again or being forced to only fight other players for actual variety.
Aside from the issues within the game mode (lack of strategy, heavy ammo prevalence, etc), Gambit suffers from two major things: lack of variety and lack of incentive. The lack of variety is twofold: no new maps in *YEARS*, and no new game modes... in *YEARS*.
For starters, I'd like to see the lack of map variety addressed. This means bringing the Tangled Shore map out of the DCV, and then also making four new maps on Europa, Savathun's Throne World, the Moon, and Neomuna. Bing bang boom, map pool doubled. Add the three Onslaught maps as Gambit maps for icing on the cake.
For the lack of game mode variety, a good rule of thumb is to have two team modes, one individual mode, and a competitive mode. Bringing back G-Prime with the changes you've suggested will 100% address the competitive mode. As for the other two. For an individual mode, what if SRL came back, bur instead of being an official thing, was more like an illegal street race? With maps on Neomuna, the Last City, Europa and the Dreaming City to start? For the other team mode, I'd love to see a 4v4, relay-style race based on Ketchcrash which ends in a 4v4, ship vs ship battle. Where defeating enemies and banking motes loads varying sized cannonballs that damage your opposing ship. Invaders' job is to sabotage the enemy ship, there's a dedicated role to fixing your own ship, it's basically Sea of Thieves in space.
Lastly. The loot variety. Gambit needs endgame-viable loot. It needs adept-level loot, available exclusively from Gambit Prime. Six weapons to start, consisting of an all-star cast of old Gambit/Prime weapons: Parcel of Stardust, Dreaded Venture, Gnawing Hunger, Night Watch, 21% Delirium, Bad Omens. Then, treat the Prime loot pool like you do the Trials pool, with weapons rotating around and new ones added season over season (I think a Gambit Prime-themed Stasis rocket sidearm that could roll Chill Clip would be *amazing*, personally). But why stop there? Why not give Gambit Prime something that Comp, Trials, and Iron Banner all lack? Make its armor drops be artifice armor. That way every drop is worthwhile, even if (like Iron Banner or Comp) the loot drops aren't specifically Adept weapons.
Edited because I can't spell pool
I've said for a while now that the roles need to be added back into Gambit, it's just that their first iteration with the getting of the armor and the boons kinda sucked. They were hard to get and harder to build around. (Maybe not hard, but definitely a pain in the ass)
My thought was give the ability to queue for specific roles. You queue for invader, you get all the buffs and you're the only one that can go through the portal. Queue as collector, you're the one that gets to carry 20 motes, ect, ect, and the game doesn't start until the roles are filled for a match to start. To help combat the inevitable, "everyone would just pick invader and sentry", put something on the splash screen that tells the player what roles are needed to fill. If you really want to sit in that queue for a specific role go for it, but you would be able to see what is needed to get you in a game faster.
Honestly? If Bungie did this, I'd be willing to give it a try.
I've only ever played the current iteration of Gambit. I wasn't around for original Gambit, I wasn't around for Prime.
But these changes honestly sound fun and interesting. I think it would be incredible if Bungie actually did something like this.
I wanted to grind Gambit because the guns of Gambit tbh looks really good. But after 4 seasons chasing a 5/5 god roll that never appear im done. Beside the low population is a huge detrimental. On asia server i meet the same guy again and again if i play solo, if i play normally i will always meet 1 out of 4 different 3 stacks. It isnt fun for the grind and the guns while look good there are places i can get better weapons.
Edit: I grind Gambit so much ALL of my craftable guns have a gambit memento. Now the guns i grinded for dont even get used.
Moments where Gambit works are some of the most fun I’ve had in this game. There isn’t as much loot incentive for me, but when I do feel like going in, I have a good game or two. But I also have like 5 bad, or more importantly, boring games. That number will skyrocket in a longer play session. They need to give it just one more try. I need moment to moment gameplay feel like more than just downtime before I get a CHANCE to do something.
I dunno about gambit what we need back is is SRL to honor Amanda Holiday after all she would be commentating while we racing back then I have three game modes
The classic racing one with sparrows and a separate one for skimmers
The second game mode would be a freestyle one were you have to do as many tricks get as many points as you can before the timer runs out
The last mode a demolition derby one
I doubt Bungie would bring back SRL THOUGH