The Hunger Games Prequel: THE BALLAD OF SONGBIRDS AND SNAKES | Papercut Book Club (Live Show)
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2020
- Join a whole group of us as we lament over the wasted potential in The Hunger Games prequel while the live chat starts wilding out with pegging Snow jokes. SPOILERS START AT 28:40. To follow Papercut Book Club, our Twitter is: / papercutbook
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Развлечения
I like the book , but for some reasons every time I think of Lucy Gray singing in public .it just remains me of that video of Halsey singing in the mall
I just think of Jojo Siwa
Lucy Gray sang Boomerang in the Hunger Games
Now I can’t unsee
NOOOOOOO
STOP i cant, imagine if lucy didnt have a microphone and was just singing onstage to the audience and they could like barely hear her and she was kind of off pitch BENDBDBBX
why did they make president snow that romantic, every scene he was in i couldn’t stop picturing him as an old man
LOL i had to imagine him looking completely different
I don't think its meant to be romantic. He was such a possessive freak tbh
that's so interesting bc i'm reading ballad for the first time now after the movie and i can't imagine snow as anyone other than tom blyth.
Not to use Cindy’s words against her and I’m paraphrasing but she said “If you are reading a book and you can only think about how the book could’ve been better rather than enjoying the book. It’s a bad book.”
That Cindy is right
@@withcindy yeah you guys should hang out sometimes
@@withcindy Yeah but she's the smart one
I'm not even a Hunger Games fan, I'm just here for the salt and the shade from all involved.
u will get what u asked for
@@withcindy Yesssss 😁😂
me too, i've never even read hunger games hah
The Court of Salt and Shade should be Cindy’s next book. Sarah J. Maas be quakin’
@@studybuddy. THIIIIIIIS. 👏
Lucy grays rainbow dress had more personality than everyone else in the book just like her and snakes had more chemistry than her and snow
i mean..... ur not wrong
a sequel about lucy gray would be way more interesting than a sequel with snow again
"hot snow is just water tbh"
the way i SNORTED.
i mean... theyre not wrong
Timestamp please?
@@cheesecakelasagna 30:31
@@carterhamlet thanks!
The narrator: doesn’t sing the songs
Everyone: yes girl give us nothing ✨
We love monotone ♥️
Lucy Gray manipulating Snow woulda made so much sense bc Snow is all about control and if he realized he was the one BEING controlled when he thought he was in control it would have sent him spiralling and would explain his callousness towards the districts in the main trilogy HNGGGGGGGHHHHH WE COULDA HAD IT ALL
I like to think that in the beginning, she was manipulating him but over those few weeks she did come to grow to care about Coryo. But in the end she realized too late what Coriolanus Snow was.
Zac every time someone said something good about the book: 🧐🤨😐🤔😠
We love our grouchy old man
My fav character in this whole book was that one-off character, Lysistrata Vickers. I thought it was interesting how she didn’t seem to really like the games, but kept it to herself for political power. She wasn’t obnoxious and in your face about it like Sejanus, but she quietly disapproved and when her tribute died, she shut Flickerman up in one sentence. I thought she seemed pretty cool and I wish she had more scenes instead of one scene and an offhand mention.
my fave was daddy snow
I have 0 interest in reading it, I'm just here for the shade hahaha
then shade you shall have
I feel like if it covered Haymich or Cinna’s back story I think it could’ve been really cool. I also feel like it was just forced because of the fame of the story.
i think a lot of ppl wouldve really enjoyed reading about haymitch and cinna!!
When I first read it I shipped Cinna and Katniss.
I saw a lot of people say that, but I don’t think those would work well as full fledged books. I do think those would be a really cool novella though!
I disagree because I think that would just be a money grab. Collins wrote what she wanted to write, and if she had gone in with the intention of just fleshing out things that the fans liked it would have ultimately created a much weaker book without any punch
That’s fair. I don’t think she necessarily should do it, but if she wanted to I definitely think a novella would work o better than a full novel
You know, when this book was first announced as being about "the first rebellion" I thought we would be getting a story about the war that created the hunger games entirely. Not ten years later. Who the hell asked for Snow's backstory? Who decided THIS was the story we needed?
ikr, nobody asked for this LOL
my dad hated the ending so much that he rewrote it on a word document,,
literally me
I would like to read that
I would also like to read that.
This comment made me choke on my water
Let us read it!
“Maybe this is a harder question?? Um... what did everyone *like* about the book, before we get into it” Oh Yeah, this is the content I signed up for I cannot Wait
"what did everyone like" (dead silence)
I think the idea of the ending (him flipflopping) is that he was lying to himself (unreliable narrator) . He was ultimately, self centred and self serving , and i wasnt surprised at his apparent flip flopping.
I think it would have been a more intriguing story to see a gradual transformation or something dramatic happens that changes everything, otherwise it's quite frustrating to see the flip-flop lol 😩
for me i never felt like there was a “twist” like Snow never ever did anything that he did not think would benefit him (even the illegal stuff he did for Lucy ultimately would get him the scholarship) and the second he thought things didnt benefit him he stopped.
thats why i wish the twist had involved lucy!
readwithcindy totally agree, if she had been like a master manipulator and it turned out that SHE was the one who was twisting everything to benefit her and not Snow but from Snows prospective we dont realize till later AND THEN SNOW LEARNS FROM HER and thats why he becomes such a psychopath... now thats an interesting story. Like what if she was actually a social climber wanting stardom in the capitol and was the reason Seajanus died and that like scarred Snow.
Unpopular opinion: I really liked Sejanus’ character😳 I thought his dynamic with Snow was pretty interesting
I think that's a pretty popular opinion actually! A lot of people in the live show liked him too
I never realized that was his name...I always thought it was Cornelius lol
nope it's Coriolanus Snow!
ME TOO DUSISKLSOS
I’m 26 minutes in while writing this and so far it kinda feels like lots of the stuff that happens in TBoSaS would not happen if it weren’t for events from the original trilogy, which happen AFTER the prequel, like... that’s the opposite of how cause and effect work...
That's exactly how I felt too!
Entropy is reversed in this universe, maybe.
I accidentally hit pause the moment you said "Zac" and just sat there patiently waiting for you guys to continue
(dead silence)
I think the book attempted to be philosophical in nature ( dealing with ideas of choice and morality rather than a evolution of character and story) and the study of human behavior. I am still trying to figure out if it worked. Also after I finished this book I just kept thinking about when in the hunger games trilogy, after training Peeta to hate Katniss, Snow tells Katniss that " it is the things we love the most that destroy us." I felt like that was a nod to his perception of Lucy Gray's "betrayal" and his supposed love of her ( which actually was just desire for possession and ownership and molding her into this weird version of a girl) and in a way sort of explained why it was so important for him to to destroy the love Katniss and Peeta shared. I also am trying to figure out if Lucy gray is actually a manic pixie dream girl or if we are perceiving her to be through snows eyes. I hope that the director maybe plays with the potential "versions" of Lucy gray in the film
Those are very good points!
Loved your discussion on the book!
Yes ! I feel like we intentionally get a limited view of Lucy precisely because we are viewing her through Snows eyes. And we do get hints that she’s a lot less manic pixie and bubbly than she lets on but he refuses to see it or acknowledge it because he only really see’s her as his property
@@williamnissen5083 very true !
Sophia K And what you said about choice is absolutely correct in my opinion. I think Collins is trying to buck the trend of villain origin stories that paint the villains as sympathetic products of circumstance in a cruel society or manipulation by say saying No they are still in control of their decisions. Throughout the book we snow continue to justify his poor choices until he’s willing to murder the girl he claims to love to achieve power. It feels like it’s meant to be a cautionary tale in how someone can justify their horrible decisions to the point were their morality has eroded
"When it was over" 😭😭😭😭😭 brutal
:|
@@withcindy not gonna lie I spit water all over my screen when I heard it 😔 y'all didn't come to play 👋
If Cindy doesn’t get to okay snow in the adaptation I’m gonna-
we can only hope
well idk reading ballad for the first time after the movie.. imagining tom blyth for 500 pages was a great experience
"Snow's always on top" 😏😩❄️ 💦
gross
It should have been about how ge got into power and different parts of his life.
i agree!
Yeah in a novella form bc it did NOT need 500+ pages
I would’ve preferred seeing how he rose to power from this poor capital boy to a literal dictator. Idk just though the president snow love story was a bit underwhelming
I thought we were going to see how he would become president too! I think that's probably another reason why this might have a sequel so that we can see how exactly he rises to presidency
readwithcindy possibly but I have a feeling that book could be a lot harder to write because well ALL politicians are pretty shifty and because they all grew up in the same society so it could potentially glorify him as I doubt there would be many good people who want the presidency in that kind of society so watching snow bump off political figures with essentially the same goals as him risks glorifying him imo. Unless he got into the presidency via his career as a game maker because it’s implied a few times that Dr Gaul worked closely with the current president in Ballad. If anything this book proved Snow is a difficult character to write for because we can only really explore his past and because we already know where he ends up and since we know he’s scum of the earth in the originals you have to be careful when writing for him
In regards to a sequel I think I’d rather a book about Tigris and the formation of the underground resistance in the capitol. Tigris was my favourite character of the book so maybe I’m biased in that regard but still that has a lot of potential watching Snow become more and more monstrous from her POV could be heart breaking as the prequel clearly demonstrates that they were close so idk I think that could be explored in some capacity plus I low key think she was Finnicks stylist and since ballad implied Tigris had to resort to sex work in order to survive I think she definitely would have confronted Snow about Finnick being forced into the experience she had to endure
He spends an entire chapter talking about how he can only afford to eat cabbage soup. DNFed at page 400 💫
LMAO FAIR
when he talked about cabbage soup it made me crave it so much so i made it and it tastes amazing idk what he was complaining about, just add some spice crankyhead
@@timmie3360 this just made my day.
It's longer than 400 pages?!?!
Nia Rhoads yep. Its 729 pages 😍🤧
Lucy was just such a passive character
That's why I wish there was a plot twist with her!
@@withcindy maybe the plot twist is in the future, she becomes alma coin's mother
Tbh, I think Suzanne could've done so much better with all the political, social, and like general "PR" evolution for the hunger games, tributes, and characters.
More exploration in the dynamics between like "benefactors", mentors and tributes would've been fascinating.
Imagine if a Tribute and "Benefactor" somehow knew each other before the game, or more interestingly a Mentor and Potential Benefactor having a relationship and the social games they could play if the mentor legitimately grew attached to their tribute.
If Suzanne really wanted to, she could've easily played Lucy as a Honey pot, and it was a waste that she didn't, since she basically shoved Lucy into the role of, "quirky love interest", without any of the nuance or ya' know intrigue.
The progression & implementation on things that should've been common sense like food being supplied, etc. Was just.... so disappointing for a society that's supposed to be so intelligent.
But, that's how it do be.
Also, some of the discussion regarding Psychopaths/Psychopathy was really uncomfortable in how it was handled. Like, yikes.
100% agree that there are so many interesting dynamics for her to explore that she didn't really get to tap into! also I apologize for not speaking up about the discussion on psychopaths, I was admittedly distracted from pinning all of the comments during the live show. I personally don't consider snow to be a psychopath or that the author was intending to portray psychopaths at all, and I don't think we should equate that to evil characters.
59:90 I'M CRYING. We all know Cindy simps for Rhysand.
i--
Lucy Grey wasn't even confirmed dead; her fate was left intentionally vague as a tie-in to the song she was named after. The girl in the song just disappeared and no one really knew what happened to her, and the same is true for Lucy Grey Baird.
Yeah, that was pretty clear from the song - but that's why I felt so unsatisfied not knowing what happened to her!
i hope suzanne collins takes advantage of lucy's open fate, so she writes a sequel about lucy and district 13, literally what people would actually read, given that lucy is like the favorite character of the book
@@withcindy i hope suzanne collins takes advantage of lucy's open fate, so she writes a sequel about lucy and district 13, literally what people would actually read, given the fact that lucy is like the favorite character of the book
26:55 Sarah Maas has a prequel set of novellas for the Throne of Glass series.
NOOOOOOOO
Is there anybody at all here that loved the book? XD i feel very alone. I loved the book to bits. The commentary on social contract, how tonally and thematically the book was so different from the trilogy, how it was NOT focussed on just the hunger games, how it felt very narrowed down to snows perspective even though its written in third person, how everything is depicted the way snow would have perceived it, how casual struggle actually is for people who come from backgrounds of social privilege even if they're poor but have the means and social capital to be able to network, the variety of said privileged folk depicted among the capitol mentors, etc etc etc. It really felt like suzanne collins chose the perfect character to write the book about so its very glaringly set apart from the trilogy, despite all the references (which i thoroughly enjoyed because they were fun nods to the trilogy). And if anyone really thought snow was romance material at any point in the book, they missed the red flags way too easily. It was extremely obvious how toxic, opportunistic, and manipulative he was as an individual person. Snow was an extremely unreliable narrator, and his self-delusion and ego was fantastically depicted in the book. Him flipping on lucy-gray was very in-character
Exactly! I didn't love it, but it's definitely an interesting read. I rly found Collins' approach rly refreshing.
I would love for Suzanne Collins to experiment with storytelling formats. Like, poetry book about collected folk songs across districts? Local folklore anthologies? Cinna's (and other/past designers') concept art and Hunger Games' fashion trends throughout history? Military manuals? Gamemaker's comprehensive guide? Capitol magazines and tabloids?
I enjoyed it, but I also enjoy the Star Wars prequels 🤷🏻♀️
I would’ve enjoyed it a lot more though if Snow went to 12 to be with Lucy Gray and then found out she’d just used him to survive and that’s why he tried to kill her.
I would have loved that too!
cindy: whats your favourite part of the book,i feel that this is a hard question to answer.
kat: when it was over
that was straight savage,and i liked it
👁️👄👁️
my eyes trying to read the chat and watch the person talking at the same time:⬇️↗️↘️➡️⬅️↙️⬆️↖️
The Hunger Games trilogy is literally the best YA-series of all time but tbosas is a disaster
Womp womp
I’ve never even read the Hunger Games but you know what I’ll watch anything with Cindy in it
aww thanks :3
Same, I have the trilogy on my shelf and haven't gotten to it yet. We gotta stan tho!
I wish that you would have had a more nuanced discussion of psychopathy, the way this video discusses its link to villany and violence feels a little misguided. Snow isn’t villainous because he’s a psychopath, he’s villainous because he’s a bad person. The long history of framing mental illness as something to be feared is very real and harmful, so I think it would be very cool if in the future you could all discuss a book with more nuanced portrayals of someone with, as you put it, “psychopathic tendencies.”
Totally agree that snow is villainous bc he's a bad person! I personally don't consider him to be a psychopath at all and I apologize for not speaking up when the discussion talked about him like he was one, I was admittedly distracted with monitoring the live chat during the show.
i think what you're alluding to is the difference between psychotic and psychopathic. so in other words, the 'bad person' is a psychopath because he lacks empathy and acts selfishly without the regard for others. i've done more digging in the NPD pile so that's what I'm familliar with, especially the tendancies thing. Most people have them, but have to show them a great deal of it consistently in order to be 'labeled' as having the personality disorder. It's pretty much a lifelong situation that the person with the disorder and those around them have to put up with for the rest of his/her life. Someone with psychopathic tendancies on the other hand is more serious and could end up hurting those around them or get caught misbehaving and end up in jail. Even in the real world, they sometimes act out and never get caught, because they also happen to be smart and functioning people. watch some of those psychopathic serial killer cases. Those people are brilliant and smart and might appear normal, so yes, it's alright to be wary of this!!! NPD is less harmful but it's still all around us. Awareness is very important. Everyone is on the spectrum in some way or form and not being aware of it makes it easy for someone to fall into an abusive and toxic situation with somebody who possess these tendancies. It's harmless only to some extent, especially if denying it's existence. Sometimes, people who display these toxic personalities can cause those around them to slip into depression and anxiety also, which spreads the 'mental illness' and creates situations of co-dependence and unhealthy relationships. In short: bad person=psychopathic and good person with mental illness=psychotic. whether or not a person falls into one or the other is subjective and requires a lot of faith. For a bystander, it's far too easy to throw someone into the first category. Unfortunately that's also why most victims of abusive relationships hang on for so long until something breaks and they're forced to take off those faith goggles. lol i don't know how i typed so much XD
@@withcindy Thanks for replying Cindy! I totally get being distracted, and in any convo its really hard to have those really nuanced discussions with so many people present and so many things to discuss. I love your content and this book club so much, so I wanted to speak up. Keep being awesome!
Shout out to isabelle lee who just wanted to get on the screen
a true hero
I disagree with the point the guy makes about Lucy ruining Katniss, Katniss was a threat to snow because of the rebellion she was a symbol of, but one of the biggest points of her character was that for the first two books she's just trying to survive and protect her sister. She's at her weakest in most of the third book when her hatred for snow slowly becomes her main motivation instead of survival and love like they were before, but at the end when she chooses to kill coin instead of snow in the end, she knows she will die but she does it anyway because she is now motivated by selflessness. Because of this, it really doesn't matter WHY snow hates her, because when she is at her strongest her motivations have nothing to do with him personally, only the results of his actions.
I am one of the 10 people in the whole world who really loved this book😞 I’ll see myself out😞😭
Manmehak Kaur I enjoyed it to, but I’m not sure how I’ll feel if I re read it
I at least agree with you about the first half!
I very much enjoyed the writing style. It's so easy to read this book.
if suzanne killed off lucy, would she have had any personality other than how she was used in snow's character development? by not killing her off she maintained her agency as a character
the very little agency she has left LOL
readwithcindy who are we kidding when do women in media ever have agency.... or are based off of ramona flowers
I couldn’t focus on anything anyone said because Cindy kept pinning comments about pegging
Same
I thought we were going to get to see what finnick talked about in Mockingjay, about snow poisoning ppl to get to the top, instead of snow in highschool
What if instead Suzanne had worked more on Snows relationship with Lucy at the end, and he became more and more controlling and it ends up being a very abusive relationship where she is forced to become a sort of puppet for him. Like I think she really loved him, and I think it would have worked better if she was portrayed as a more ‘simple’ girl who sees the good in everyone. So she over looks all his awful qualities because she loves him and wants him to be good, and as the years goes on she is made to be smaller and smaller by him and in the end they are married, and he forces her to be like a trophy wife, him in the capital being like ‘ooow look at me and my wife, what a love story, look how ‘exotic’ she is’. I think it would have said a lot about him as a villain (whilst also maintaining his perspective so we can see him reasoning away all his shit actions), and been a good look at what he is capable of, and how he was able to become the man he is another 50 years.
I have multiple alternative paths, but this one just came to me whilst watching your discussions :)
hmmm that would be interesting!!
I just thought Lucy ran off to District 13 at the end.
i think it's up to interpretation!
that would be a good sequel
I only read the first book, but why do I feel like I know everything I need to know-
u basically do
So the only thing I disagree with is all the things they added to the games. I have seen meetings where there is a failing project and you have to figure out how to save it, many crazy ideas come out. I wish the other students came up with ideas and not just Snow. But to me that was somewhat believable. Look at the crazy ideas the xfl did that the NFL ended up adopting.
The hunger games more like the corny anus games
Umm they are all wearing glasses😳🤔
reading makes u blind
@@withcindy still looking awesome though😎❤
*shrugs* I've been making the Papercut Glasses Book Club jokes for months
If you want to read a good psychopathic character arc, read “Good son” by You Jeong Jeong. I really liked this discussion. For anyone learning how to, or writing a novel, this is great information.
Thanks for the recommendation!
I'm not even in the hunger games fandom but I'm here for the shade, and you guys did not disappoint 😂. Also, since Lucy was introduced as kind of a snake lady, I definitely think they could have used her in the games as someone who uses poisonous snakes or something to win
I came for the tea because so many people don't like this book.
i wanted to root for it so baddd
On a side note, Folklore by Taylor Swift kinda snapped doe 😌
Still need to listen to that!
Should've been about haymitch 😭😭😭
In terms of returning to world that the author has written, I think Phillip Pullman's recent series, 'The Book of Dust', does a really great job of picking up some loose threads from the main series, but also introducing new concepts /world building.
thx for the rec!!
The best book with songs in it is Gail Carson Levine's Fairest. The audiobook fully produces and commits to the singing, and the narrator has a gorgeous voice. :)
Didn't like how people were getting mad at andyreadswell for being constantly noticed like it was his fault. He was actually taking the time to discuss the book and its potential and stuff, and not just spamming chat with 500000000 DILF or peg jokes like they were going out of style (because they were, honestly). :/ If you want to get noticed, you guys, maybe contribute to the chat's subject matter.
andy is great and super funny!!
I've been following your channel for a very long time, thank you for continuing to inspire me 🥺💕KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Thank u!!
I’m the only person who enjoyed this lol I just took it for what it was
i enjoyed the first half at least!
What y'all got to understand is that the story takes place in what the author referenced in an interview: The post-war Reconstruction period.
Because by the the end of the war food and supplies were very, very scarce. Because the Capitol mostly relied upon the Districts for everything.
And besides the book is about the state of nature. If you look at the page of the book you can read the quotes from the enlightenment philosophical thinkers of the Enlightenment period. And that's why the book is more political theorerist, philosophical sort of book.
Coming back to this after watching the movie is great.
I totally forgot everything about this and I never read the book so when snow is introduced I was like "his name is cornyhole anus????" Lmao
its funny how capital radio played the hanging tree remix
Waiting for the dubstep remix
Everyone is wearing glasses the key I’m a reader trope lmao I’m kidding I love them 😂
How else will we prove we read
Love all the Pegging Comments✨✨✨
Me too y'all are wilding
😏
Emma lee and maiah wynne on youtube has some amazing renditions of songs from the book. I really love emma lees "ballad of lucy gray baird"
I'll have to check it out
thank you for this, i was not going to read this book for multiple reasons so i enjoyed this.
Glad it helped!
Ah darn I missed the stream! But now I have like an hour of footage that I can watch whenever I want to... life is generous for once
Hope u enjoy!
Really uncomfortable with using psychopaths when what you mean is serial killers
I found out about the book in one of Cindy's vids and I actually hold off watching this vid because I want to read the book first. I really liked it and now that I'm watching this I'm ready for them to crush everything I like about it.
tbh i completely forgot who Snow was at first, i got him confused with Coin
i do have to be honest here - the discussion that came off as psychopathy = bad was// pretty uncomfrotable. tho also it's not like the writer is talented enough to actually write psychopathy from a well researched or realistic lens. i don't plan to read this book, tbh i'm tired of poorly written characterological disorders that are full of stereotypes and misconceptions, idk if it's just because this is a huge part of my studies but it makes books (and shows) predictable and hard to get through, and makes the writers seem lazy (which is quite possibly true in most cases)
(deleted my original comment because anxiety is a bitch)
i personally wouldn't consider him a psychopath and don't equate that to evil either - sorry for not speaking up about that, i was admittedly distracted by all the pegging comments lmao. IMO, i don't think he was written to be a psychopath? just a typical morally gray dude with a lot of not-so-great qualities
@@withcindy you're fine, don't worry! ooo yeah that makes a lot more sense tbh, thank you!)
I think he was a sociopath because he didn't seem to fully comprehend that others had genuine emotions - he never said that outright, but he seemed to view people as pawns and their emotions as inconveniences or something he could use against them. He also never seemed to actually love Lucy and instead wanted to possess her. It was mild, but definitely gave me sociopath vibes.
I think that in his case he used it for evil, but I think it's a scale obviously. I'm sorry if it came off wrong or insensitive. I know there's more nuance to psychopathy/sociopathy than I gave credit for in the discussion and I apologize for that.
@@JordanHarveybooks Glad you apologise because that was definitely insensitive. Like... the OP is explaining why it's frustrating to see people talk about a nuanced and complicated disorder as if they've done the research and legwork to understand its characteristics and traits (which can often be confused with other disorders and issues a person could have). Yet you're reiterating the very stereotypes and misconceptions of this illness and admit you're literally feeling 'vibes' from the guy. Please don't do that.
Melly B Right, but those are traits of sociopathy, not just stereotypes. I understand that not everyone who has the disorder is a bad person, but in this case the character has many of the characteristics and ends up being a bad person. That’s all I was trying to say.
Cindy I would love to see your reaction to the Ember Quartet, starting with An Ember in the Ashes. When I read that the main male character was 6'4 I was sold 😳😂 I think you might like him because he's a soft boi under all that MUSCLE so give it a try 😉
Sounds tempting!
*Regarding songs in The Ballad of Songbirds and Songs:* All I know is we got some good RUclips covers out of them.
Just do a collection of short series in which expands popular characters and how they won their Hunger Games. It would be too profitable.
I personally prefer a full length novel over a collection of short stories, but I can see how that would make sense here
i’m glad i read the book in finnish so i missed at least a few of those annoying references, for example the ”katniss flowers” were translated and i had no idea they even were in the book. wish i hadn’t heard that from this video either. smh, suzanne collins.
This book honestly blew my mind
CINDY IS PURPLE?!?!?!?
YES
@@withcindy it looks so good!!
Me: Finally shows up to a live stream
Cindy: We’re going on hiatus. No reason
and i oop
Aw dang I missed it. At least I can watch it still... can't wait to see what everyone has to say about the book
hope u enjoy!
This was exactly what I needed when I clean house!
Glad it helped you pass the time!
I just finished the book after being afraid to start it for over a month. Prequels that include known characters are hard to do well and probably best left undone. I still give the book 3.5 stars for being interesting and showing us that President Snow did not start off as a completely remorseless monster. It does show how the elitism of the Capitol and his grandmother helped shaped his character development along with his own ego and survival instincts. (You can take the boy out of the Capitol, but you can't take the Capitol out of the boy) I liked finding out the origins of the games (loved that his father submitted the idea) and other things, but as you guys said it was a little much and overwhelming. I didn't actually enjoy reading the book.
I really am writing this to point out to your young panel that this old woman heard at least three of the songs in her head like earworms. "Down in the Valley", "Oh, My Darling, Clementine, and "Keep on the Sunny Side," were sung regularly in my Alabama school in the sixties when we didn't have today's enrichment resources, just a neighborhood mom, a piano, and folk-song books. District 12 is supposed to be Appalachia and those songs are part of that culture. "Keep on the Sunny Side" is also on the soundtrack of "Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou?" a popular movie released in 2000 and played in my car from time to time. But how would you young people know this music? I think Ms. Collins made an error by putting in so many music lyrics not familiar to her target audience. BTW, Maiah Wynne has posted cosplay videos of Lucy Baird's ballads on RUclips. They are not as I imagined them, but I like her versions. I don't know how to post a link here. Also, if you are not already following queerappalahia on Instagram, it can be very interesting although it is a bit much for me at times, and I scroll past quickly especially on Fridays.
I definitely agree that prequels, to some degree, exist to offer more details on the history of stuff that couldn't be covered in the original works (since too much exposition and info-dumping gets tedious). References to things that we know about aren't necessarily bad things; indeed, you want the reader to make connections in many ways. However, I agree with Zac that you can go too far in making reference things and completely take away the agency of certain characters by doing so.
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SPOILERS FOR STAR WARS AND THE BOOK BEING DISCUSSED IN THIS LIVE SHOW
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I've heard a few people now say they really dislike how so much of Snow's ire for District 12 and Katniss is tied up in his old love interest, similar to Zac's stance. Marines, from mynameismarines, touched on the same vein as Zac: by bringing in all of this additional history for Snow to hate District 12, it robs Katniss of her agency as someone who bothered Snow *on her own*, through her own actions and abilities. The additional context for Snow to be an angstball about District 12 isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it takes away a lot of weight from Katniss, who in the original, was this nobody from nowhere who completely shakes Snow's sense of comfort and power. But now, she is more of a reminder of a lost lover than this person with her own aura and presence.
Since Zac mentioned Star Wars, it reminded me of a similar issue that occurs in the latest trilogy of Star Wars movies. Rey was presented for the first two movies as being a nobody on a desert planet who craved a family and connections. She discovers that she is strong in the force and the movies cover her coming into her power. In The Last Jedi, Kylo Ren says that Rey's parents were nobodies who sold her for alcohol money. This revelation is painful to her, but it also emphasizes that even from the desert, a strong plant can bloom and be a formidable fighter. Strength and the force can come from anywhere.
However, in The Rise of Skywalker, it's revealed that Rey is the granddaughter of Emperor Palpatine. While this isn't a bad decision, it actually robs Rey of all her agency and ability. She's not strong in the force because she is a survivor who works for it; she just has a strong bloodline. Strength can come from anywhere, but it's not as important if you aren't from a recognizable family tree.
Though I haven't read THG or this prequel, merely listened to several reviews of it, I still agree with the stance that there wasn't a need to drag Snow and District 12 together on another level. Let that element belong to Katniss. Lucy Gray could have been from any District, right? Sometimes references to original works go too far :)
The more I think about it the more I agree with you and Zac! While I didn't mind the similarities when I first read it, I see now how by adding that layer to snow's story it robs katniss of her agency in hers. It def seems like Suzanne Collins was trying to think of how she can tie EVERYTHING to the trilogy as much as she can lol
I liked the third part more cause it was fast paced and I wanted to get it over with
so basically u liked when it ended LOL
I get so excited knowing my feelings on a bad book are about to be validated by others
Prepare to be validated
Personally I liked this book. I definitely think it was very personal to Suzanne Collins and the message she wanted to put out, but I think she tried too hard to also throw in a hunger games esque plot that would appeal to most readers, and it hurt the book. I still have it 4 stars though
glad u liked it better than we did!!
Yeah when I started reading I instantly thought “oh wow most people will hate this”
My mom gave it to me for my birthday. I haven’t read it yet so I wanna see how good it actually is first
happy bday!!
!!! I had no idea a prequel came out! I’ll have to read it!
Hope you enjoy it better than we did!
wait I really like this, post more of these please??
Maybe 👀
I love the hunger games trilogy too dearly to read this book but this should be a fun watch ❤
I didn't mind the book too much the first time I read it but I really like this book with the groups added nuance and exploration of potential.
Sometimes discussion and imagination is worth more than the source material itself.
Thank u!!
I just noticed how the name sounds like a rejected title for hadestown
:OOOO
Unpopular opinion: I really liked Lucy Gray. I don't even know why but she was kind of a secret and that's pretty interesting to me
I think that’s literally the point of her character. We will never truely know her because we only saw her through the eyes of a selfish man who viewed her as nothing but “his”
I feel like every time snow was given a choice between the obvious good person choice and obvious villain choice, how she was writing him in this prequel he should’ve chosen the good person choice but then he’d flip and choose the villain choice cause that’s what she needed for him to become president snow
And by good person I just mean like humane choice vs villain
I agree!
I feel like that is the point Collins was trying to make. Snow had the CHOICE to do the right thing but he CHOSE to do the wrong thing. Throughout the book we see him stop, consider and justify poor choice after poor choice and they only get bigger as the book progresses. At the end of the day I think Collins is trying to say Evil is a choice. Like we see multiple villain stories that have them portrayed as victims of a cruel society or they were manipulated to the point they were. I think Collins is trying to challenge that notion with this book by saying No they are still privileged and empowered actors in their decisions. I’m not going to act like this book is a masterpiece but Collins granting Snow complete agency over his choices is something I admire as it shows there was no excuse for the decisions he made
William Nissen that’s a really good take actually I hadn’t thought of it that way!
Emily Fowler yes and while I do think Lucy Gray was manipulating him to an extent she CHOSE to be better than him. In the book Maud ivory says Lucy Gray knows where to find Snakes. She knew full well the snake she picked wasn’t venomous and even after realising how horrible he was she chose to flee rather than try to kill him. I get it the ending is a little anti climatic and frustrating but I think it does beautifully drive home how Lucy chooses to believe humans are good and can be better while Snow ultimately chooses to believe humans are evil as it helps him justify his decisions and the teachings of doctor Gaul. The book has its faults but at the end of the day I think it’s meant to be an examination of privilege and how someone can justify their horrible decisions to the point their morals have eroded
the title sounds like it belongs in a Sarah J Maas series
oh my god zac’s on the steam! that’s awesome
Yes he is awesome 😎
I wasn't ready to hear star was being attacked like this 😂
I’ve never read the book and I don’t really intend to, but I’m here for revelations from Cindy!
hehe thanks :D