Beginners guide to welding with hard facing
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- In this episode we tackle a useful but often difficult to understand skill of welding with hard facing
0:00:00 Intro
0:05:02 Book learning
0:14:30 Let’s weld
0:23:12 Conclusion
This is the first “useable” vid I’ve seen on hardening. Thanks, and good job!!!
"And then you'll look at it and see the toes cracked right off". I can hear the experience oozing out of that fact. Hahaha, thanks for sharing your hard fought wisdom with us mear mortals Greg
I have made that mistake once or twice lol.
Great video. Just wanna say thanks to folks like you who take their time to share their knowledge with others.
You’re welcome 😀. Just passing the torch so other people can build cool 😎 stuff and do solid repairs.
True !
Much Respect and Appreciation !
Incredible amount of knowledge here. Really appreciate you sharing this out to the YT community.
Thanks for the kind comment. I hope people will be able to use the info to have better success in making stuff better. It took a few hardfacing failures of my own before I realized there was more to it then laying a bead lol.
another excellent video. when i first started welding and setting my shop up i hard-faced a cheap harbor freight anvil but i just used 7018 the results were pretty good but i'm not a blacksmith or anything. i use it as ny basic shop anvil before i did it it would dent easily and had no rebound at all. now it's basically usable and ive been using it for at least 7 years not every day mind you but i do use it often to peen something flat or make a crease in sheet metal, straighten things sometimes etc. i wish i'd have seen this video before that
You actually might have done something interesting with the 7018. As it absorbs carbon the weld becomes far harder. Likely what happened was the anvil had the right mix of material but due to poor heat treatment or temp control during cooling it didn’t harden like it should have. The 7018 provided additional minor heat treatment and carbon hardened beads. Had you used something like 312 stainless or hardface it might have been far too hard the beads might have cracked. Crazy how it went from dead to useable with a bit of work.
Hi Greg, definitely new knowledge. These type of rods are seldom mentioned elsewhere on YT. Thanks for all dos and don'ts. Cheers.
heading back in time to view my hero Greg.....cheers from Florida, Paul
I won't remember the rod numbers but I will remember hard facing and different applications. Good information
Glad it helped you. Hardfacing is pretty easy to weld with, many rods are just hard to weld out of position with. Flat welds are the way to go 😀
once again, solid info
Great video
you put out some good information. section 13.7 is the Hardfacing pages in the PROCEDURE HANDBOOK OF ARC WELDING from JF Lincoln Foundation. great book on the entire spectrum of arc welding. buy it.
I ordered it. I have a bunch of their books, but not that one. Thanks for the recommendation, more knowledge is always good 😀
Thank you sir. Good information here👏
The hard face rods we use at work are made in India and have a lovely incense like aroma! 😂 They are without a doubt my favourite rods to use and produce beautiful welds! I often have to weld on site with no gas so i heat by welding 6013's first then grinding them out immediately to get the metal up to temp, pure cowboy moves but it works for us! .... Have to get a respirator though 😬
Hardface rods tend to be really easy to run which is a bonus. Definitely wear a respirator to protect your lungs 🫁.
Great instruction! Thank you for your knowledge and insights- really fantastic!
No problem, glad the info helped you out 😀. Hardfacing can be tricky to work with. The number one thing is if something bad happens (such as beads cracking as they cool), reassess what’s going on. For the most part the common store bought rods are easy to work with. When you deal with unknown wires and rods and on unknown materials, the outcomes can be worse. It’s 100% worth it to use hardface though, it will save a ton of wear 😀
Thanks for the follow up :)
Really helpful information. Do you recommend MIG for hard facing or just stay with stick? (I see I can get some specific hard facing wire)
Useful video. Haven't used hard facing rods as the price generally backed me way off. Good to know though as you see it all the time on equipment.
You can get some of them for affordable prices, like that K-t brand 5lb pack. They work pretty good but they are not as wear resistant as single pass rods. If you can run a 6013 or a 7014 you can weld with a hardface rod, they are really easy to weld with I find. Keep in mind if you make a poor bead that needs to get ground you will be in for a treat trying to grind it down lol.
Trying to *find* that K-T stuff is proving difficult!
The local fleet farm stores near me in the midwest carries those kt hard face build rods.@@dennisyoung4631
Hot tip. If you have a gouge but need a high impact surface, root and fill with a 60k rod, then hardface cap.
perfect and prof guide. ....Thanks
You’re welcome 😀. There are a ton of potential pitfalls with hardface which was why I felt was important to cover them. It’s a awesome tool when used properly, especially for farmers and people dealing with wear issues.
Clarification; Most arc-deposited capping alloys have a 2 or 3 layer maximimum and are expected to be used as 2-layers for best results, because all arc processes cause relatively high dilution. The only true single layer rods that I know of are for oxy-acetylene torch application where the base metal is just barely starting to melt, almost like a very high temp brazing rod for minimal base metal dilution and minimum dimensional build-up. (Stoody has a couple that are hollow tubes filled with tungstun carbide grit that gets embedded in a metal matrix but it must be a thin layer to avoid segregation.) I am talking about regular hand torch and rod, not spray-torches and powder.
There are 2 classes and 5 categories of hardfacing filler metals (with a bunch of specializations or overlap),
The classes are those for use on carbon and low-alloy steels; and those for use on high-manganese steels (often non-magnetic and used in extremely demanding components like crusher jaws or digger points on larger equipment) The surface layer of manganese steel also gets work hardened and needs to be ground/arc-gouged/scarffed off before hardfacing.
The categories:
"Build-up" with much higher compression strength than base metal or a common joining rod like 7018. Build-up may sometimes also act as an alloy transition layer for better compatibility between the base metal and the final topcoat.
"Metal to metal" anti-wear (This category is often doing double duty with the Build-up category but not always.) Quite a few are somewhat machinable, with either grinding or carbide tooling, to acheive an accurate final dimension and surface finish. Some may be compatible wih further heat treatments if used in original factory fabrication. "hardend" but somewhat low in carbides, resistant to galling and cracking, May be generally low coefficient of friction or polishable. Unlikely to accelerate wear of the mating parts. Some may be work hardening under impact for situatuions like railroad track junctions.
"Metal to earth high impact" These are often somewhat soft as welded then surface work-harden with impacts, may not retain a sharp edge due to initial deformation
"Metal to earth high to extreme abrasion, medium or low impact" This is probably the most common category used in for repair jobs.
Extremely high carbide content. At the more extreme end of the category deposits are often expected to form a regular ½ inch crack pattern. (May be further divided into specific types of abrasion such as high-stress/low stress or two-body/three-body/errosion etc. Low stress is like wear from a flow of semi-fluidized material, high stress is high point-loading like a power grinder or where mechanical gouging is likely.)
"Exotic" High temperature service (industrial ovens, forging tools etc) or high chemical corrosion like pumping an acidic pulverized ore slurry in a smelter. These are usually very expensive as they are based on something like cobalt.
Great video, hardfacing isn't talked about enough. I haven't tried the hobart rod. I had a lot of trouble with stoody 35 burning up early. My local welding supply recommended ranite 35. Welds great with minimal spatter.
Thanks. Hardfacing is a great option to save a ton of wear and tear on things. Unfortunately many of the products out there are difficult to find info on and ideas on how to run. That’s a huge problem when many of the products need preheat, avoidance of high temps between welds, and issues with layering. I have seen pics on the internet of whole sections of hardface beads crack right off the steel they are on.
Stoody products (from what I heard) aren’t the same as they used to be. I am doing a plow repair job now and the shop it’s at has buckets worth of stoody 35 and a ton of other rods. I will have to try and run some to see what I think. The big thing to me with the hardface rods is to find one that works and stick with it. They can be so temperamental and having welds crack off is a problem I don’t want to address lol.
We use hard facing on steel shoes for flat track racing motorcycles. In addition to wear resistance it makes the shoe slipperier so it glides over the surface better. Everyone always said it was a high nickel coating not stainless but I guess stainless has a bunch of nickel in it anyway...
Thanks as always for the video. Your moniker is misleading though. I'm far less likely to make mistakes after watching this!
You’re welcome and thanks for the comment 😀. So most general hard facing has high levels of chromium, manganese, carbon, and silicon. They do often have nickel but at a much lower amount than the others. Nickel itself is not very hard, they might use it to add ductility to the finished weld. Most of the wear properties comes from the chromium and manganese. Cheap hardface rods in my experience are literally just 312 or 308 stainless. Which does work because it is more wear resistant than mild steel. Once you start adding manganese you get into the real deal stuff. Considering a file won’t even cut it I bet your trick would work great 😀
Wish i had known this 4 years ago 😂
I always wear a respirator now
100% worth it, glad to hear that.
Excellent lesson on what hard-facing is and what it isn't- I'm still a little unclear on something that seems contradictory. The build up rods are designed for when multiple passes are needed to fill in a deep gouge or some other void, whereas the single pass rods are just that- single pass only, don't stack them or you'll likely see a failure. So run a single-pass rod over say the cutting edge of a loader bucket for added protection- would you then come back with an angle grinder and shape the finished hard face weld, or just leave it rounded off or crowned slightly? Or will an angle grinder even do anything to a hard face weld? Also the whole wear resistance means greater brittleness seems contradictory- must be some weird property of metallurgy.
The hard face can be ground, but it is very hard and will take a long time to grind it. To remove the same amount of the hardface bead as say 7018 will take more pressure and 3-4 times as long. Normally the bead would be put down and left as is, but it could be ground down.
I didn’t touch on it in the video that I remember but hardface can actually be done with a special oxy fuel torch and a powder. You preheat the part and then spray the power onto the part using the torch. It leaves a thin layer of material, the properties of which can be controlled by the powder used. It’s very common for worn shaft buildup and would be more ideal for situations requiring a thin layer over a bunch of beads.
As far as the brittleness/ hardness issue, it really depends on the rod. Hardface does exist that has better wear than mild steel and can handle a massive impact load (think hardface for the hammer faces in a rock crusher). If it was super brittle it would just crack/disintegrate. The backing of normal steel you put hardface on helps. A great example of this is a samurai sword. It’s made from a single piece of steel. They heat treat the edge so it’s much harder than the spine. If they heat treated the whole sword the same it would be brittle and likely break. The hard edge is supported by the softer spine. With hard face beads the same thing happens.
The problem in specific with single pass rods is you are depositing Liquid Metal that solidifies. Well that solidification puts a tremendous stress on the metal around the molten pool because it shrinks. Trying to do multiple layers deep is like taking string pasta when it’s uncooked and bending it. The material doesn’t have much ductility and it just breaks/cracks. Vs even semi cooked past will not break when slightly bent. A great comparison of this is to run a weld lengthwise on a 2in wide aluminum bar that’s 1/8th thick and 4 inch long. Do the same with steel. The steel plate will bend far more than the aluminum, and even worse for stainless. It’s that shrinking stress matched with the brittleness that causes failure with single pass rods. If you could get multiple passes deep of a single pass rod it would work more effectively for wear resistance than buildup rods, but if the bead cracks off it’s not a effective repair. It will happen too, I have seen pictures of what appeared to be banana peels of hard face welds crack right off.
Absolutely awesome video, THANK YOU!!
Just finished welding school and Hardfacing was NEVER TAUGHT.
Is Hardfacing difficult to learn to do?? Any advice on how to get into this specific trade?? Is it in high demand ??
Very much appreciate you making this video, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!
So hard facing is very common in the repair business. Any people working on big construction equipment will typically know how to use it. The first time I saw it my father used it on a bucket edge for a skid steer. It’s also run on plow blade edges. The rods actually weld really easily and if you follow what I covered in the video, most anyone can use it.
I would say the skill of it is in demand but it’s a very niche part of welding. From a production standpoint it would be more important to have skills with hardface wire since that is far more commonly used in production work (aka making parts like material transport screws and drop chutes that are exposed to high wear). I personally specialize in repair work and coming up with solutions to problems, so hardface is a common “tool” I use. It definitely helps extend the life of parts, especially ones that never were hard faced to begin with.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I very much appreciate the great advice! Keep up the great educational videos and THANK YOU again!!!
I saw Jody tig a drill bit onto the edges of his chipping hammer as a hard face.
That does actually work pretty good. Finding hard face rods for tig can be very difficult. The drill bit method has worked for me in a pinch. Stick with non expensive ones though, I bet a high end cobalt bit would cause a weld made with it to crack. 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I was going to use a Bosch masonry bit with the tip cut off since I have a bunch of worn 1/8” bits. The steel looks and feels pretty tough.
So the hardface rod used here is mainly for digging equipment blades. How well would it work for refacing an anvil?
Great question. My first thought would be the weld would likely crack. There may be some
Hard face that would work for a anvil, likely something with high impact force performance. Something used on rock crusher hammer faces. From a more readily available standpoint I would try 312 stainless. It’s well known to repair leaf springs and tool steel. It produces a weld that doesn’t become overly brittle via carbon absorption.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I was told I would have to heat the whole anvil to 450F min and keep it there while padding the whole hardened strike plate. Someone else mangled the strike plate with cold working.
If you don’t preheat it the probability of the weld cracking is really high. Most anvils have poor ductility and when weld goes from molten to solid fast there isn’t enough time for the material to adjust to the shrinkage, thus the weld just cracks. I wish anvils weren’t so expensive, that would be a fun repair video 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I was expecting to heat the whole thing to 500f. One idea. Wrap it with fiberglass heat it with an induction cooktop.
Anvils can be cast or forged, and they are usually heat treated (at least the top surface is hardened and tempered or the equivalent for cast items) 450-500f is well within the tempering range for common steel.
There are hardfacing rods specifically for metal to metal surfaces and medium impact. (hand hammering is not considered high impact unless you are the sort that can litterally crack boulders with just a couple blows.) You may need to decide between hard as-welded or work-hardening rods; Probably don't need any exotic "high service temperature" rod because the anvil is such a heat sink and isn't being used inside a furnace at continuous high temps.
Fortunately I have never heard of blacksmith anvils being made of high manganese alloy so that simplifies your selection process, and reduces the need to remove as much of the old surface, Just flap disk it to fully bright rather than removing ⅛-¼ inch of work hardened material.
How about using multi-passes on a build up rod then the final layer using a Single pass rod. Would that work or it's not compatible ? We have farm equipment stuff.
You can generally do that yes. The risk you run is the single pass rod could crack off due to how brittle everything is. If you use the same companies products and they are designed to work together there won’t be any issue. If you use two different products from different companies the results will vary. The key things are to follow the manufactures suggested use/instructions. Hard face rods are one of those things that you must follow what the manufacture says or failure will be likely.
I was working in a company that repair m
Heavy mine equipment and they use wire call it M-71 for everything? Buckets and toes build up
@@zenteno5p when you say wire, are you referring to a wire feed welder ?
@@melissatuason2395 Yes, there is wire feed hardfacing.
sir;
Great video. How would I hardface lawnmower blades? Would I apply it to the edge and then sharpen the blade or sharpen the blade first and then apply hardfacing behind and underneath the edge?
Great question. I would apply it then sharpen the edge. The hard face will basically be sharpened and it will add lifespan to the blade. Ideally the job would be done with tig because you don’t need to deposit much metal, however stick will work. Find the smallest hard face rod you can, because many are 5/32 in diameter. Couple other pointers:
Hardface shrinks a lot so expect some warpage. I would avoid single pass rods and go with a rod you can layer, because it will allow for future repairs. Many mower blades are forms of “stronger than mild” steel too, so going with a single pass rod could make the edge too brittle.
Beyond that I would practice on something first before doing a critical blade. I am sure it will add life to the blade.
Please use extreme caution when welding on modern mower blades, some are tempered and welding on them can cause the end to crack off and can be very deadly. We used to build up brush hog blades on our state road mowers, now we can't, we just sharpen them to the limit then cut them in half and scrap them , even the zero turns manuals warn not to weld on the blades. Try and find out what your blade's are made of and what the manufacturer recommends. We've had had brush hogs break at the pin and boy the damage it will do, think about that next time you drive buy one or those ditch mowers.
I would not recommend welding on a spinning blade. Metal bows and wraps at welding temperatures. If that isn't taken into consideration, might cause some problems.
That being said, I've heard of edge building with drill bits and a TIG torch
I would not recommend welding on a spinning blade. Metal bows and wraps at welding temperatures. If that isn't taken into consideration, might cause some problems.
That being said, I've heard of edge building with drill bits and a TIG torch
I would not recommend welding on a spinning blade. Metal bows and wraps at welding temperatures. If that isn't taken into consideration, might cause some problems.
That being said, I've heard of edge building with drill bits and a TIG torch
Can these rods be used for repairing bolt cutter jaws?
I bet they would work for that provided you’re talking to rebuild the cutting edge. The only issue is you will make an oversized weld for what you need, and have to grind it down. Tig would be the best way to do it. I have tig welded bolt cutter edges with drill bits for filler before lol.
There are hardfacing fillers specifically for such things, they will be categorized as metal-to-metal wear and machinable (and NOT work hardening). Though in this specific case, you may be destroying the original heat treatment and thus the strength of the entire part.
There are hardfacing rods suited to post heat treating, but then you are getting into a whole thing where you should just go buy replacement jaws for all the cost and fuss.
“….respiratory issues….”
#2097 filters. Have to wear a respirator when I do stick, or when I’m in the area where stick is happening. I’ll be unable to breathe otherwise.
Note: a milder version can happen during periods of worse-than-normal air pollution, though I can recall being near-collapse in my teens (mid-late seventies) in Southern California. (Really bad pollution.)
Definitely nothing wrong with wearing a respirator. For some reason most stick rods don’t bother me, but 6013 is a real problem for me. I can’t burn more than a rod without coughing. Definitely pays to protect your lungs.