What the Vietnam War was like w/Doug Rawlings | The Chris Hedges Report
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2023
- Doug Rawlings found poetry in 1970 after returning from his tour of duty in the Vietnam War. Over fifty years later, he returned to Vietnam for the first time. In conversation with Chris Hedges, Rawlings looks back on his experience of the war with unflinching honesty on the many crimes of the US military, and shares some of the poems he's written to process these experiences.
Doug Rawlings is a veteran of the Vietnam War who has published several volumes of poetry, including In the Shadow of the Annamese Mountains (2020). He is a cofounder of Veterans for Peace.
Studio Production: David Hebden, Adam Coley, Cameron Granadino
Post-Production: Adam Coley
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Sent to Vietnam during the Tet Offensive. I was 20 years old and spent 13 months on the DMZ with the Marines. Most of us hated being
there. Morale was low. Back in the rear areas, fights between Black and White soldiers became commonplace. When my time was up, I was mustered out
in a matter of days. "Thank you for your service" and a folder stuffed with papers ended my time with the Marines. Been back to Vietnam
30 times trying to help people out. It helped but the bad memories are still with me.
If there's a better interviewer and channel than Chris Hedges I've yet to find it.
Patrick Bet David might be close.
@@maytt675 cheers will check him out !
does Joe Rogan count?
Interview with Roseanne Barr @@maytt675
No , no and no I'm afraid Joe is a talented grifter @@tomimn2233
Heartbreaking testimony
I absolutely appreciate the introduction song and theme music 🎶 of this station.
My brother May he rest in peace served as an Army paratrooper on the Ho Chi Minh trail . He returned as many others a heroin addict.
To all the military veterans from USA and Allies having participated in Korean War and Vietnam War, thank you for your service for trying to contain the spread of the deadly and toxic Communism which remains an existential threat even to these days. Commies are a stain on humanity!
Chris is my teacher, thanks Chris for your insight on everything
Chris is everyone's teacher!! Unfortunately, some do' wanna learn.
It's interesting how Doug Rawlings was inevitably able to come out of war, with a sense of remorse and shame for what he had done, while others become hardened and almost psychopathic from the experience.
I'm here for this , the sacrifices and courage of these men need to be documented and described in detail so we can get a clear picture of the history of these pointless wars for power and resources that leave behind destruction that the vulnerable families even generations later on are suffering the consequences of.
Your message is extremely contradictory. There is nothing heroic or glamorous about the INVASIONS and military conflicts America has engaged in for the last sixty years.
In all these types of interviews Hedges could speak for hours and hours about his own war experiences, but he never encroaches on the interviewee's time. Brilliant and revelatory as always.
Thankfully , there are experienced and informed journalists like Chris Hedges.
Important to hear this story. Thank you. I grew up in rural VA during the Vietnam war. It was formative. I knew what I was watching on TV. I feel deep love for Vietnamese. Thank you Doug. Thank you for Veterans For Peace. I recently bought and read the book Dreaming The Mountain, by Buddhist monk scholar Tue Sy and recommend it.❤
Thank you Chris for continuing to present interviews like this. This was extraordinary. Girl in the picture and Unexploded Ordinance were heavy.
It is my wish that one day your archive of shows you did on RT will one day be available again.
it is available. on rt. its just that rt has been booted from youtube and other American sites. because freedom and stuff.
Hooray for VPN’s
@@jeffhicks8428 And booted out of UK.
So few of these former soldiers focus on the people they destroyed and devastated. Mostly they want to talk about what happened to themselves to the exclusion of the victims of their actions. This man seems genuinely different.
Thank you so much for this interview.
Doug and I are close in age - I'm 75 and from the UK.
The Vietnam war was part of my twenties.
Martin Luther King was my mentor in life.
Violence is never a solution.
Over time I have grown to understand the real purpose of the Vietnam war and every other proxy/regime change war and the machinations of the military industrial complex - it's a slow process of gaining understanding of the world you live in and who is trying to rule.
Doug, your poetry touches my Soul. I lived through that watching friends & family throughout the years be torn apart by memories seared deep within! I think back to our trust & naivete which led to such shock to the young, inexperienced psyche being led to an unravelling of young innocence. The saddest part is the damage done to many vets & fsmily members, leaving those who initiated it as all blameless in their sociopathic minds. Blessings to all who continued to carry these scars throughout the years. I know as I saw lives ruined from the inability to "unsee the horror". And know that for some those scars continue to show up in their coninuing generations. I well up with tears as I am srill witnessi ng this today😥
I've been hoping that in the year 2023, contemporary individuals would engage in discussions about the lessons we've gleaned from the Vietnam War. Engaging in conflict with another nation not only affects that nation but also transforms the one instigating the conflict. My father was a participant in the Vietnam War, and even though I am an American, I, too, experienced the consequences of American imperialism.
We must extend our considerations beyond external actions to address internal issues as well. It's worth pondering why prominent thinkers like Baudrillard, Zizek, and Fisher don't delve deeper into the subject of Vietnam. Perhaps it's because they aren't American, and their perspectives are oriented elsewhere.
Where are the contemporary American intellectuals who scrutinize the flaws within our system? Jordan Peterson, for instance, doesn't appear to have extensively discussed Vietnam. While I have heard Sam Harris discuss the Iraq War, his perspective on justifying war based on ideology rather than actions is deeply troubling. It's crucial to recognize the potential for ideology to be wielded as a dangerous justification for warfare.
*THE INVASION OF VIET NAM WAS BASED ON A LIE.*
*AFGHANISTAN WAS INVADED BEFORE KNOWING WHAT CAUSED THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WTC 1 AND 2 BUILDINGS.*
*IRAQ WAS INVADED BASED ON A LIE.*
The foremost ideology that leads to war is the profit motive of Central Banks, who finance armies, fund both sides, profit from devastation, and then again from rebuilding. The propaganda machinery of corporate media is there to perpetuate war. For as Smedley Butler wrote, "War is a Racket."
I agree but ideology seems to be merely one of the tools they use to herd us towards yet another banker's war. The ideology of the powerful is simply pure greed.
Doug offers the world a sliver of hope. Thank you Doug
I would love more longer interviews from the CH Report like this one.
Mr. Rawlings has been doing the "Letter to the Wall" project (on Memorial Day) for a while now.
I rode a bus once with the photographer who took that picture... His wife had past away recently, I skipped an appointment and rode that bus to his stop where I talked with him for awhile.. the entire conversation was about his wife.
He showed us what war was.. but his life was love.
A great proposed solution for many people -- many should sit down and watch this, thank you both.
What a wonderful interview. Thank you for sharing. X
This is one of the very best 😊 Thank you 🎉❤
General William Tecumseh Sherman summed it up during the attack on Atlanta during the Civil War that "War Is Hell!"
Excellent !!!
Thank you Chris. You are a truly good man.
This is REAL journalism
What a nice man!
This is the best video I have watched about a Vietnam veteran among the many I have watched..although all the Vietnam vets I have watched have been very powerful and revealing. This video could have been much longer and I would have watched it all
Thanks 🙏
Did anybody surround the pentagon with the intent to exorcize its demons…?
That would be a fantastic idea.
THANKS FOR THIS
Great interview! As always with Chris Hedges, but nevertheless, this interview is something special. Thank you! Cheers from Denmark!
I am a sufferer of PTSD ,fought long and hard also in Primal therapy ,there there is an axiom ; One cannot heal emotional things with intellectual means . one has to work with tools of the same dimension , with emotional wounds one works with emotional tools !! I live in Sweden a country prone to intellectualizing EVERYTHING !! Swedish Psychiatry is a flight , an escapism up in universal abyss of the had !!! Utterly degrading and demeaning !!
Thanks for tell out the facts.
I will take
Jack Kennedy's hand in my left hand
AND
Doug's in my right hand
AND
leave this world. NOTHIN' IN IT.
...........................
Jack's was the First Death in the Vietnam War, he tried With His Life to
not make anymore "Doug Rawlings"s.
...........................
My heart and tears to you, Doug. Thanks, Chris.
I think i would have been asking questions about war constantly if my dad went to war. This mans perspective seems the most healthiest response to a terrible experience. All those feelings he has one would hope any empathetic human would feel.
A very valuable conversation as ever on #TCHR 👏
That was inspiring.
Well said!
Great job ......
Mr Hedges your interviews often make me weep...this one did. War certainly is the greatest evil...and Jesus weeps, still !
We who have never experienced war may dress up the sensory madness and moral assault of combat in heroic fantasy or oppose it in the abstract. Of those who do experience war, few may find a path that neither rationalizes and hardens one into a brittle shell or requires copious amounts of chemical numbing. Doug Rawlings and others who learn to domesticate the monsters brought home - still clinging to their backs - are the most important voices in the anti-war movement. Through creative means and service as lighthouses to warn the unwary, they can remind us of that peaceful, forgiving place in Rawling's poem and it's opposite - the feral psychosis that will never be satiated.
Humanity, humanity! they've been trying hard to take it from us to go on playing their horrible war games.😢
Thank you‼️ ♥️ the man 😢
Really engaging, Thank you Doug and to you, Chris, for all your work. I noted that Doug said he has an economics degree. I love the social and philosophical concepts you expose us to Chris. In this interview, I was fascinated with the concept of "psychic wholeness" and its cause - to use Doug's description, the rape of the soldier or his / her use as a tool or an "asset" in war. I was trying to conceptualise this within an economic framework. I thought of the classic dichotomy in welfare economics of externalities - the social cost of an action that goes beyond the private cost borne by the decision-maker. In this case, the decision-maker is the US government deciding to wage war in Vietnam - this incurred a cost and, presumably, there was some fractured calculus that said that there would be a greater corresponding benefit to the US incurring the cost of that war (however nebulous -- the defeat of communism or whatever). But, what is not factored into that calculus is the catastrophic implications for the population of Vietnam and for the American soldiers fighting there - the externalities of the war. And I was thinking that it was the young soldiers like Doug who were forced to "internalise" these externalities suffered by the local population, their fellow soldiers and themselves. Whatever or however one might define or value the externalities imposed by a war of mass murder of the civilian population, not to mention all the other horrors witnessed and described by Doug (and others who have been able to confront what they witnessed), the scale of what soldiers like Doug had to internalise could be thought of in terms of these massive externalities suffered by the local population and themselves. One does not need this economic framework to comprehend how it is understandable that the burden was too great to confront for many (and God bless those who haven't been able to). What makes me ill of course is that it never has been, nor was it in this case, the policymakers who suffered these "internalities" (e.g., the huge burden of guilt / despair as a result of witnessing/carrying out atrocities) - it was the soldiers sent to their death by the policymakers (sitting in their high offices dictating far-away wars that don't involve the spilling of their blood) and lucky'(or unlucky) enough to survive. But, of course, as a result, it is not the policymakers who experience (achieve) 'psychic wholeness', but the soldiers who had to live it, breathe it, smell it, and who have had to carry the potentiall selfdestructive 'internality' burden of the 'externalities' (the suffering) of the Vietnamese, their fellow soldiers and themselves. The wonderful work Doug now does (e.g., the Hispanic combat medic that you mentioned) is but a microcosm of the what could be done if the reigns of policy could be passed to people like Doug (and yourself, Chris - noting your own traumatic war experiences). Anyway, first time engaging and I wanted to share this thought.
Can any veteran of any military action since Viet Nam ask forgiveness? Can any american ask for forgiveness?
Almost every American should be begging God for forgiveness.
Most people who sign up for the military are doing it because they know it is there only option to escape poverty. Young, disenfranchised, often naïve. I don't think it's fair to judge soldiers based on the wars they were forced, mislead, disillusioned to engage in. These things are just much, much bigger than any individual can be expected to take responsibility for. In a way it's like asking if someone should go to hell for owning an Iphone. Because they know it was made through child labor. Or maybe they didn't, but they had the ability to find that out and chose not to. Does their role in buying it, hoping to better their station in life, amount to the same level of immorality as the companies "employing" the children? I think it has to be done on an individual level. If we are all held to account for the wars of tyrants, none of us will be fairing well when we meet with Saint Peter.
Of course forgiveness is possible with God but the people who have been forgiven need to reform by sharing their experiences with younger people to avoid repeating the same mistakes all over again and lobbying for peace from their politicians in the White House , who year in and year out promote their narratives why they need to get involved in other nations affairs. Surely citizens in Africa, Middle East, Europe and Asia are smart enough to decide what is best for their own nations without USA imposing its own ideology on them .
@@dishonoredundead to be fair blasting somebodies face of with ar-15 in their own country isnt quite comparable with owning an iphone
Why? They didn't commit crimes. The govt are the ones who are guilty.
Read War Is A Racket by Smedley Butler
Dwight David Eisenhower and Martin Luther King, Jr both called out the wickedness of militarism and the Military Industrial Complex on iconic speeches from the 1960s
✊
Powerful.
Would love to see Chris talk to Kim Phuc. Her book tells a story of deep forgiveness.
A brave nurse ended the Vietnam war, ash's was there.
Ancient Mariners ❤
🌎
love is da answer💧
👍
Ridge road i know it well
Don't be misled, God is nobody's fool, we'll all must reap we sow!
Galatians 6:7 (paraphrased)
"War is old men talking, and young men dying." Odysseus
It is a very tough interview...
Yeah, that's great Doug. I have a question. Why in fuck didn't you say no.
Prison. Say yes & hope you land in a soft place.
Hey, Chris, what do you think about Peter DOW
Becoming campaign manager of cornel West. And now he's left the green party and running as an independent. Doesn't seem like hes serious . Do you still endorse him? You really need to address this issue.
🛐4☮
The Almighty strongly detests war as He detested divorce in Malachi 3
I got Traumatic Brain Injury TBI GCS 8 PTA 6 months still very amnesiac 7 years later, overruled by a missionary immediately Intensive Care Unit I'd been helicoptered to had saved my life, to be labelled as not injured but suffering a disease he specialised in. I can read and learn of some of his lies now he's dead as I survive on food powder in creek water in solitary confinement BUT WITH A PHONE or I'd be dead. I listened to Vietnam vets to see people who'd done life harder than me, but as I regain consciousness the killings done to cover my injury, the killing of my boy the same way by the same people, no, I've done it harder.
Hey Chris it's interesting .. you should read Oliver Stone's latest book "Chasing the Light"
“No mud no lotus” Thich Naht Hanh Vietnamese monk speaking for peace . nominated for Nobel peace prize by Martin Luther Kjng Jr
Unfortunately he lied. What happened in My Lai village was VC used village people as their shield. VC will kill their husband or sons if they didn't cooperate.
What was the point of this war...Does anyone know?
Marine maj gen Smedley Butler wrote an essay titled "War is a Racket". He died shortly before WWII. VFP has a unit in Boston named after him.
LBJ claimed that he didn't give a dam about Vietnam, and that he wanted to outdo JFK wrt civil rights. After the concessions the Republicans made with him to pass the civil and voting rights acts passed he didn't feel that he could get away with not acting on Vietnam.
The Vietnam Special Military Operation
We no longer need to experience the filth of war. Our Masters can now wipe out millions at the push of a button. In fact, they soon won't need our labour or even us. ✌💀 (Green Fire UK) 🌈🦉
Jesus is the Key ✨ 💖✨
He wrote a book. About killing Vietnamese. Unless he's donating the proceeds to Vietnamese victims of US imperialism, he's just profiting (again) from their suffering and his actions contributing to that.
It was like the biggest waste of life and materiel to date.
However, Lady Bird Johnson made a lot of money off of it.
Little butterfly..... that's just weird and f'd up....Con Buom is Vietnamese for Butterfly....the reduplicative word "Boum Boum" is used as a euphemism for sex.
All this concern about being raped etc, is for people who don't know what life is about. The real problem in life it the end, and that's far more hard as to be raped. Then you face death, because your body is deteriorating almost every day. You become weaker and weaker and skinny, and awful, you watch yourself in the mirror turning into a total disaster and you don't do anything anymore. Also you don't see anyone because children have left and friends are dead already. Then you stay alone, your wife has Alzheimer and is incontinent. Every day you clean her bed because she peed at night. She was once beautiful, and all you see is just a joke and there is nothing left... Give me a brake.
29:14
Blames "The people of Mexico" and not US imperialism for the fact that the impoverished, and benighted natives, who are in closest proximity to The Great Beast in Washington D.C., are literally 'under the thumb' (and constant threat of military invasion by) the USA. Again, we see the self-serving, and self-absorbed nature of these "Winter Peace-activists" who come back in their old age to profit from the war (again) while casting themselves as "victims' and playing into the hands (whether deliberate or note is irrelevant) of current US foreign/imperialist policy, in which Mexico has become the new "enemy du Jour" (or at least one among many, and quickly rising to the top of the list of places most likely to be "liberated" by the same sort of people who will undoubtedly write exculpatory humble-brag books of "pomes" all about themselves and the horrible things they did, and how it was all, in the end "transformative' in some way, and how the 'natives' were actually good ("peaceful") people after all.
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Never apologize for saving people from the existential threat of Communism. To all the military veterans from USA and Allies having participated in Korean War and Vietnam War, thank you for your service for trying to contain the spread of the deadly and toxic Communism which, like a infectious plague, was and still is a stain on humanity!
Lies -lies - lies
Here we are 2023- 24
Lies- lies- lies
Youth it’s your future?
Time change of course
Here to comment on Mr. Hedges' latest substack ("Palestinians Speak the Language of Violence Israel Taught Them") where only paid subscribers can comment...I once really appreciated this man's contributions, his moral countenance, even had the opportunity to meet him once, and to attend a church where he sermonized. But I think his accumulated war traumas have brought him now to a place of sickness, as he appears to be losing his bearing, turning to the dark side...Here is some accounting for this appraisal:
Where Hedges once spoke truth to power and mainstream media, he now joins the ranks of current leftist/progressive MSM coverage of the Middle East in reducing the Arab population of the region to a passive lumpen mass stirred to violence by their evil Zionist overlords. A classic and simplistic anti-Semitic trope if ever there was one.
Hedges chooses to omit for some reason that Islam is the only world religion that was spread almost entirely by military conquest, from its inception. This is a fact that actual Muslims are quite happy to boast about. Thus, warfare has a very different meaning for them than it does for Christians or Sikhs or Jews or Buddhists. To suggest that violence and warfare-at-any-costs is somehow alien to that culture is either a demonstration of historical ignorance or typical leftist propaganda. Since Hedges knows his history, well...what to make of this?
It is truly concerning that Israel has developed into a harsh, colonizing nation, under the guise of a Middle East democracy, and the nation is undoubtedly responsible for egregious and sectarian violence in the name of controlling their domain. But it is also true that, given the chance, the Arab League would gladly decimate this nation and massacre its population en mass. And then they would celebrate with a month of dancing in the streets and conceive of new Holy Days marking the occasion. Hedges selectively chooses to inform his essay with a slate of historical anecdotes and quotations while belying this little ditty, this actual here-and-now present and undeniable premise of what would amount to Holocaust II.
I have a dream:
I think it's high time that anyone who is mature, caring, thoughtful and smart takes the self-initiative to "check-in" and introspectively review their own internal black/white parodies.
We should leave the over-simplified propaganda-informed outlooks to those with intellectual deficits. Sadly, Chris has somehow joined their ranks, it seems. To top it off, he aligns with the artist known as Mr. Fish, known for his blasphemous anti-Christian illustrations. The man has clearly lost his way.
I've listened to scores and scores of Hedges' speeches and scores more of his discussions, interviews and debates. I do not even remotely recognise the man you describe: Hedges lived in the arab world for nearly a decade and has many genuine friends from those countries. He is also greatly admired within the African-American community after teaching for over a decade in Rikers Island prison where most of his students were POC.
And one of my best friends is Syrian. I could easily be mistaken for a Palestinian.
So...not sure your point?
@@Lyra0966
I wonder also why Chris Hedges the great pontificating historian does not tackle the question asking why does Egypt not open its borders to their poor and long-suffering brethren in Gaza? Hmmm... I'll leave that one to simmer. Chris?
@@OCCUPYTVTO Yoy seemed tp be suggesting that Hedges does not understand middle eastern people and that he is unsympathetic to them. I just don't believe this to be the case at all.
Here is what I consider vital and worthwhile analysis of the current situation. It is from a thread by Phillip Bond on X. Note how this compares to the emotional bigoted heap that Hedges whipped off:
"Strategically what do Hamas hope to achieve? Asking this question is inseparable from asking what does Iran hope to achieve? They both abhor a two state solution, neither wants peace with Israel in any form & both want hegemony. Hamas over the Palestinian people, Iran regionally
The ideation that governs both is key and is paramount. Belief is not a secondary factor, it is the prime motivation and the elimination of Israel as an entity and functioning state is the goal. There isn’t a middle ground here. Ideologically the destruction of Israel is the aim
In this the sectarian differences between both can be subsumed - any future conflict across Sunni/Shia lines which will surely re-emerge as it did over Assad in Syria can for now be resolved by the prime aim: the erasure of Israel.
So what do both want - I suspect they both want a long war. To draw all actors into the ‘final solution’ to the Jewish problem. Hamas wants Israel to come into Gaza - where it is by no means clear that Israel will win. Indeed Hamas may fight the IDF to a standstill.
Neither Iran nor Hamas care about the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza. Indeed they are a crucial part of the strategy - projecting victimhood daily on TV screens across the world - they want Israel to bomb & kill women and children as it serves their ends & is their means
A long war in Gaza very quickly becomes globally unpopular, but more important is its local function as a means to ignite a broader front against Israel both on its borders, in the West Bank and in its domestic Arab population.
Iran has been moving to displace Fatah in the West Bank for a long time - fighting in the Ein el-Hilweh refugee camp in Lebanon has seen Fatah officials assassinated by Hezbollah/Iranian backed elements. Iranian weapons and IED technology are being transferred to the West Bank.
In short armed Iranian proxies are already in place in the West Bank fomenting a coming uprising helpfully accelerated by the coming war in Gaza. It would be foolish to assume that something similar is not taking place domestically in Israel among its large (21%) Arab population
Iran has created the conditions for advanced multi-front conflict in Israel & the IDF entering Gaza is the ignition point for such. They judge that the time is right. Citing both Afghanistan & Ukraine, they believe that the US no longer has the will to intervene decisively.
What is particularly worrying is Iran is acting as if it already has nuclear ability and need not fear Israeli retaliation. The immediate trigger however may well have been the political conflicts in Israeli society and the reservists saying they would not serve.
Highly ideological societies tend to tell you exactly what they will do and why. Recall Putin’s long historical essays on Ukraine. In an August 2022 interview posted on Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei’s website, the head of the IRGC, Hossein Salami, spoke quite explicitly
He wrote ‘The outcome of the battle will be determined when the struggle is on the ground, and the brave and experienced people of Hezbollah and Palestine will move on the ground in a single military formation.’
The conditions for this single movement are in place - they only require Israel to enter Gaza and for civilians there to be the public sacrifice for the ignition to take place. The utter brutality of the Hamas incursion was designed to force Israel to attack Gaza
This is the ultimate strategy at play - it serves the interests of Hamas who will hope to rule any Palestinian state that emerges from the conflagration - it serve Iran who will then attain its arc of influence and regional hegemony. But most importantly it will eliminate Israel
I can’t quite make sense of what is happening outside of this scenario - it’s a strategy to wipe israel from the map - which makes all this talk of peace and place at the table and mediate gains utterly superfluous. I fear the moves are as big as this
So what should Israel do? Generally it’s not wise to do what your enemies want - so entering Gaza is an extremely risky endeavour. But Hamas must be defeated and removed from power - but how to do this without a ground war?
Western strategists need to ask what could change the calculation here - the fulcrum point is indeed Iran and perhaps there the only player that could alter the calculus is the United States. But that would entail threatening and possibly delivering a direct confrontation
Israel itself, with its existence under threat could take the fight to Assad or other Iranian proxies but Hezbollah is already primed to invade from the north & the West Bank similarly so. Instead Israel has to act so as not to generate a general emergency within & on its borders
That I’am afraid is where I fear we are - on the brink of a long planned existential conflict, where Israel will be attacked on all fronts and it only needs Israel to pull the trigger for it to begin. The savage murders of children and women was designed to force Israel’s hand
The terror enacted upon innocents had to be so explicit that Netanyahu - famously reluctant to enter Gaza - would have to do so. And Hamas will gather its citizens and people for their sacrifice for their and Iran’s ultimate goal the erasure of the state of Israel
Israel can win a one front war against Hamas. It can contain a two front war against Hezbollah. It might just endure a three front war in the West Bank. It may not survive a four front war with its domestic Arab population. Everything I fear is designed to bring about the latter."
Goddamn LBJ & HIS ADVISORS!!... :(