If it was my boat, I'd keep what's there. It's dry and solid, you can skin it with more glass and even add another core layer which would significantly enhance the structure when you install the pod extension. Remember, you started with a project boat. If you wanted a completely new boat, you'd have started with a mold. :)
Build it out & roll with it. In 35-40yrs you won’t be worried about boats at that time! Go get it done & enjoy it, summer time is around the corner. While we are all still here, go enjoy as you much as possible. Stay safe & keep the good videos rolling! 🍻⛵️
When you are building an awesome boat, and coming this far, why stop at 90% awesome? Also, from an educational standpoint, showing viewers how to overcome a pain in the butt job, and do it in totality, and finish with an unquestionably structurally sound job is something great in itself. As for everyone saying they want to see it on the water immediately, there are tons of other channels to watch with boats on the water. I found this channel because I was learning how to work on my boat.
I've so been there on cutting where I shouldn't, not on a boat, though, on a piano soundboard (I'm a piano technician). Recovering from that actually gave me some skills that provided me a decent living over the years, but it sure as hell didn't seem like that at the time!! In terms of your poll, due what your patrons vote for. I'd be one if I could afford it... I've learned a lot, and really appreciate your instructive videos!
I'd say if you're going to take the core out of that transom, just cut the whole back out. Yeah it means rebuilding most of the transom from nothing. But it also means you're done with the tear down in a day, and the heavy lifting part is construction, rather than grinding and tear down.
If the transom core is in good shape, keep it. However, I would enlarge all of the current drilled holes and fill with epoxy and redrill. This will help to ensure that any future water intrusion around the bolts for the outboard motor platform is protected from the wood core.
I've been watching you for a while now. And the one thing I noticed is you DON'T take shortcuts, nor do you put out shoddy work. Whatever you do will turn out better than factory. I for one, what you to keep it and get that boat out on Superior with your family. :)
I used a lot of encapsulated exterior grade Fir plywood when I refit my sailboat. We tore it all apart for recycling last year and after twenty-seven year's on the ocean I didn't have a single area that water got into. My point being, and as you already know, properly done plywood is an excellent product for use on boats.
Andy, great job. You are a true pro. With transoms being a big problem with a lot of boats. I would like to see it stripped down to the plywood and replaced properly. A lot of viewers would benefit from the correct way to do their boats correct. Please show how to check for moisture before you tear in to the job👍
This would be my preferred approach, as it removes the need to also strip the solid plywood core, allows you build a brand new transom and even potentially removes the need of a transom bracket!
@@AdrianoCisternino yep, that was my reasoning too. And one more thing, I really think it will be faster, inboard versus outboard needs a longer length.
Andy, don't spend all that time and headache ripping out the plywood. Since the plywood is dry then it will be fine like you say for 20-30 years, it makes no sense to remove it. I'd say just thicken it up with the new foam boards, enlarge the holes and fill them with epoxy and re-drill them to the original size so the plywood stays fully sealed. It will be more than strong enough. Love the attention you give to these projects, really great workmanship !
I understand wanting to have the peace of mind that it has been replaced with the coosa, but with the amount of work it will take to rip out a perfectly good transom, I think you should leave it. Take the time to make sure it’s sealed up perfectly and move on.
Hi Andy, I voted to keep the plywood, but I do have a caveat to that vote. Rip that funky wood out of the old key holes. At that point you can make a couple of judicious cuts and assess how well the plywood is bonded around the key holes. If it is solid, then fill in the key holes and beef the rest of the transom up. If there is delamination, well you know what you have to do.
As far as the transom per se, I doubt it matters structurally which method you choose. I'm confident you can do either correctly or make it look fantastic. Consider doing whatever is less time consuming. Now that the dead and live live loads (especially thrust) you've added to the transom by using outboards will be adequately supported by the transom, the concern is to ensure that the these loads will be transmitted to the stringer system and hull bottom/sides adequately to prevent over stressing the stringer/hull frame (racking and flexing). Great project Andy. Love the series.
A tip for removing the Armstrong bracket; support the bracket with your hoist then use a long piece of 80lb mono or braided fishing line, tie some sticks around the ends and wrap it around the joint and saw trough the 5200 like butter. When you remount the bracket leave a new rip cord for the next guy before you use your 5200 or boat works similar. Looks Good, Bill W
I was taught “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. You have said that plywood is stronger than coosa. If you leave it you know you will do whatever is necessary to ensure it is water tight. The time saved can be put towards other repairs and as others have said, you will be on the water sooner rather than later.
I work for a boatyard and have installed many armstrong brackets, and even have one on my own boat. Standard transom thickness is about 2". Two 3/4 sheets of plywood or coosa laminated together, and outside skin of 3/16 to 1/4 and an inside skin of about an 1/8. In good condition that will support a bracket and twin 130's no problem. The Bertram 25 was initially designed for inboards only and only has a small section of traditionally cored transom. That bump-out area. Should be two layers of 3/4 plywood in there. The rest of the transom is solid glass but thin, as you discovered. I'd leave the existing plywood core, redo the keyholes, and laminate two layers of 3/4 coosa over the entire inside of the transom, using filler or oddball pieces to bring all the levels up. I would then also build some coosa knees to tie the transom to the top of every stringer. On my 1979 23 seacraft I installed an armstrong bracket on, I did three knees. One to each of the tops of the large box stringers, and another to the center stringer. I would also remove the bracket from the transom and grind off the bottom paint and re-bed the bracket to the hull NOT to the top coat of the existing bottom paint, which is how it looks. With the bracket off you could also dig out the transom core from around every bracket bolt hole and fill with thickened epoxy and re-drill. Then the core would be truly sealed and you would have nice solid chunks of epoxy in the transom to tighten the bolts to. Just my .02 cents USD. Loving your videos, as I do a lot of systems and structrual work, but am just getting into the refinishing aspect of boat work. Learning a lot from you about gelcoat and paintwork. Keep up the good work!
I for one would like to see you fix the transom as is. Your work is stellar, and I believe it would be more realistic for us viewers to see you repair from the solid " leftovers" you have now. Love your work and channel !
After many years of doing different projects on cars, boats and buildings (i moved my own house to it's present location) there comes a point where it is easier to start from the beginning than to try to go over someones else's work. Replace the whole transom because you will regret not doing it. Referring to my own house every time that i make a repair or modify it to suit my needs, I end up doing more work than required. For example the wiring in the house is mostly 14 gauge wire, when you increase the load you have to rewire the area with 12 or even 10 gauge wire. To accomplish this you have to open up the wall to remove the old wire and replace it with new. Another time one of the floor joist had cracked at a large knot at the stairway opening you had to remove the stairs to replace it. It would have be easier to build the house from the ground up rather than constantly rebuilding it.
Build off what is there! Double glass the sides of Coosa and pre drill some small fill holes. After each Coosa board is tabbed in, squirt some filler in the holes starting low and going up. (micro balloons/spheres & resin?) 😃
thank you for the non virus related content. also... Mas on sail life had the same decision to make regarding his rotted stringers on athena. he decided to simply reinforce in place with enough material to make the rotted cores a non-issue because quite simply it was the easiest path to a workable solution. i learn something valuable and new from each of your videos and though i would dearly love to see the process of removal and reinforcement, perhaps the best lesson learned here is, "if it aint broke don't fix it."
Pez Pengy I think Mads messed up by just glassing over the rotten beams. If just adding a few more layers of glass made it as strong as glass laminated over wood don’t you think the original designer would have just made the whole thing out of a few more layers of glass to start with. There is no way that Mads way is stronger than original glass over wood plank . He may regret it later. I hope not though.
@@mwatkins2464 Mads Athena stringer lay up was engineered to the hull weight, there is no way it is weaker than the original in original condition which relied on the wood core (which decomposed) as part of the stringer strength. Go back and watch how many layers it took before you say "few more layers" again so you transfer the info accurately.
Why would the original designer add that much more glass? It's waiste of time and money. Also, how accurate durability calculations were in 1985? If any analysis was made in the beginning. I think Mads had a finite element analysis made to assess his options with the stringers. His only possible problem with the rotten wood is the added smell to the boat.
@@mwatkins2464 In a beam most of the strength is in the outside. The middle is just there to keep the outside in the right place. An I beam is a good example. The two big flanges take the load and the middle web just keeps the flanges in the right place. Mads added a lot of glass on the outside so those beams are probably much stronger than the origainal setup. It wasn't done that way in the factory because it is difficult to glass over air to create a hollow structure. Also wood is a lot cheaper than glass.
Keep it and do your thing, it’s fine, like you said, it’s gonna last. I have no doubt whatsoever it will be perfect and strong enough to hold those monsters!!
BTW the leaking bolt is a red herring, there was no water leaking OUT Between the Armstrong mount and the transom. Only has to be water tight on that joint, that bolt is INSIDE the water tight compartment. Andy your good 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hi Andy what is interesting to me is seeing how well or not so well new material has bonded to the old or original material. I think this is a lesson in being suspicious of all repairs or modifications. I have watched your videos covering the bond quantity between epoxy and polyester but this really demonstrates the importance of getting that right. I know these flat panels don't take much sheer strain but somewhat surprised how easily they are separating.
You've gotten this far with removal of virtually the entirely of the reinforcement area. If you continue on to the actual area they reinforced, you'll eliminate the uncertainty of questions about that area. You'll be starting a new chapter for the reliability of the entire project, because You have addressed the area, compleatly. The engines are large and lots to stress to the transom area is transferred from them to this area, best to know what you have with No surprises. Great work Andy!👍🏻
Do you have, or could you make, a video on the different materials you use and the tools as well. What they all do and how they're used? Kind of a fiberglass 101. You're the best fiberglass teacher on RUclips
I own a 1966, V26 Stamas, originally a single Chrysler Dana Drive I/O, that I repowered with a twin outboard bracket & 200 HP outboards. The transom was well sealed in fiberglass at the factory, there was no water intrusion, and the plywood core was as solid and hard as when the boat was built. That's over 50 years. If the original construction is good, and no water has penetrated, there's no reason to replace the plywood core. Reinforcing for the bracket loads is the bigger issue. Greg
Keep what’s there , build off of that . Be extra vigilant on sealing it up when you reinstall all the hardware. Coat every hole that has to go through the transom liberally with an epoxy or some other waterproofing that will soak in thoroughly inside the holes . 👍👍😊
Drill oversized bolt holes fill with thickened epoxy to seal out any chance of water intrusion via bolt holes. Fix the previous attempt to fill the outdrive holes. Lastly build it up and glass it in.
After rebuilding the whole boat, I would not leave the old transom in there. The water meter may not pick up moisture because it’s been inside your shop for several years. Tear it out and replace with something you know is solid.
Hey Andy, I would drill a few test holes around where the bolts go though the transom about 3 or 4 " from the hull check for rot near the bolts. That may give you better idea what mitt be happening with the wood in the transom. If you find it to be dry, fill in the top and glass over the inside of the transom leaving the hull ID plate open. I mitt even clean that off so it is easy to read if that is possible. Tech tips from Yachtsmen's tool box .
What would be the most efficient way? What would be the most satisfying way. If building over will work and your happy with it, go that route. If blowing it out would help you sleep better, go that route. Myself, sleeping better is always the better route in the end. Even if it seems unnecessary.
If its as good and dry as you think it probably is. Skin it and add some supports overlapping those weak spots. One option is to build a bracket support to transfer the load onto the old engine mounts so to say that way you might eliminate any twisting when throttling up. If in doubt just over do it :) keep up the great work 💪
I think u should do the full coosa transom , for a few reasons. #1 more content for ur channel .I mean ur channel really help me with my 17ft boston super sport now it's perfect . #2 u wont have to ever redo it #3 it will be even stronger I mean the ocean is unpredictable and with ur family involved. Safety is no 1 priority. By the way love them bertram my dream boat.
Have you ever thought about using a router flattening jig, as woodworkers do when flattening slabs for table tops and so? That could ease your work when adding layers of coosa. Fill up the low spots. Flatten the surface and then add one large panel piece instead of creating a puzzle. You might wanna invest in a large vacuum though, to catch all the dust that the router creates. I've never tried it my self, but the thought seems worthwhile thinking about. My guess about the piece removed by misstake. It will ease your work because the transom became a whole lot flatter surface to work on. And the saved time and effort on the transom will worth more than the time and effort lost.
Rip out out drive fillers. If transom wood OK leave it in place and glass in really good fit non rot replacement. Level up transom as you add another 1 - 2 inches of thickness. Ensure all bolt holes are fully sealed with resin before sealing bolts in place. Glad it's you doing it and not me.
Replace the whole thing, cons...more work and more materials, pros...you are the kind of guy that likes everything done the right way, coosa over plywood will be hammering in your head as long as you own the boat, coosa is stronger than plywood and weights less, plus it doesn't matter if by any chance you have water intrusion through the screw holes, another pro is that it will make more episodes for your RUclips channel and that's how you are making money now, plus there are a lot of us that really enjoy your videos and the super quality work you do, all that while helping others, like me.
Happy Sunday Andy how you doing this is big knucklehead down here in Miami Florida I would say keep the existing and build off of it two reasons one you already done a full transom rebuild video and this will give us a different look of how to address transom issues and second since you have already determined that everything under there's pretty much good then it makes no sense of burning through material in order to replace something that's not broken at least that's my two cents brother hope you and your family are well and healthy and I look forward to seeing your next video thanks
My vote is to build up the low points (top/sides) to the same thickness as the ply using coosa. Then cover everything for as far as the transom will allow with a single sheet of coosa. That would effectively spread the load across almost all of the transom.
Careful of project creep, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The whole "while I'm here I should...." results in a project you never get to enjoy, scab it all up to the same level then add a solid panel on top of that.
Would cut it all out and make sure there is no rot. Also bring out the rear gunnel and add a cooler/ live well in the middle with a a toe undercut for fishing off the back
Work with what you got. I would like to see some horizontal structure across the transom and to the topsides to take the thrust load and transfer it to the hull. Even a box type grid or a couple of box beams and then covered with coosa. Space is not an issue .
I would use 1/4 coosa then layer of fiberglass till it is all level and then continue till you get the thickness you want. For the bolt holes, core out a 2 to 3" hole fill with a coosa plug and thickened epoxy to seal the plywood.
HAVING OWNED ONE OF THESE UNITS, I KNOW HOW STRONG THAT RANSOM IS, 400 PLUS HORSE HOLMAN MOODY SETUP HELD WELL , BOAT WAS DROPPED WHILE BEING LIFTED, HAD TRANSOM AND KEEL X RAYED NO PROBLEM. ADDING THICKNESS WILL STRENGTHEN THE ALREADY STRONG TRANSOM.
Xylene (more normally called “xylenes”, as it’s normally a mixture of dimethylated benzene by location). It’s a solvent found in tons of adhesives because it evaporates slower than toluene. It is also used as a straight up solvent because it dissolves hydrocarbons very well.
My question to you is gonna be!!! Whats gonna give YOU the GREATEST peace of mind! what is gonna be the strongest, as others have said if it aint broke dont fix it! but if this is gonna be for you and your family, then you have to do what you believe is gonna be best. I would build up the low area and then finish the whole area with the coosa like you described. Take care and be safe.
I'm not educated enough to have an answer that will help you. But as a fan I'll support your decision either way. That being said, I'd love to see this thing in the water this year.
You already know the core is good. I would level it out the way you were originally thinking then Coosa board all the way up and across. I would worry more about the "oops" than anything else. Tying that back into the transom is going to be the weak link so I would tie that in first before doing the transom. You're already in there anyway so why not do a little overkill and do two layers of coosa board and make it to the thickness you know will be safe, then you would also have more strength at that joint repair. Just my two cents. I enjoy your videos, and you gave me the confidence to do a pretty aggressive project on a 235 Glastron. Keep up the good work and good luck on this project.
Andy I’m on the fence on what I would do, if the boat is going to sit in the water during the boating season 24/7 where it has more of a chance to develop leaks, I might consider replacing the plywood, if the boat is going to be trailered to and from the lake, I would probably leave it, just my thoughts 👍😁
Despite the backyard job done to try and stiffen up the transom, the original core is still in good nick even with all the bolt holes drilled through it. For me, I'd keep the original core and anywhere you have to drill through the transom, overdrill the holes, backfill with thickened epoxy and then drill (when fully cured of course) to the final required size. The good old..."drill, fill, drill" technique. I would do the the backfilling before you proceed with the additional Coosa stiffening then do the final drill after the stiffening work is done. In my mind, doing it this way it will give you peace of mind that you have completely sealed off the interrnal ply core from the elements. A whole lot easier than spending day after day after day trying to remove a perfectly good core.
I didn't see an active link to the poll, maybe try it out on the community tab? Either way, my vote is to leave it to your great grandchildren's greater ingenuity and access to new technologies to address it in the future restoration 40 years from now. It might be novel and quaint to see actual wood at that point. Think of their smiles! Plus Lase-rbeaming it off with a robot will probably be as common as using a tape measures by then.
I'm currently replacing the transom on my 2000 striper seaswirl in which you gave me advice via email and your fiberglass resin guide (thanks again)..being that its an older boat I wanted to keep costs down so I bonded marine ply to existing glass with thickend epoxy and finished the rest of the glass with pe resin. I came to this conclusion using the repair workflow chart on your resin guide.. according to that you should use laminating pe or ve resin for all repair work. I like charts like that it makes decisions like this easier. Hope this helps
Andy, I’ve been watching your videos for a long time and you are one of the best on “how to” instructor videos I’ve seen on RUclips. My question is that why not go further in conducting an experiment to put your skills to the test. Why not discard the outboard bracket and run stringers through the transom and make an integral outboard bracket? Personally, if I had the time, which a lot of folks might have during this epidemic I’d rather do something that would last for a long time. You have the shop, the materials to do it and with some imagination it can be done.?
Couldn't find the link to the poll. Everyone is going to say RIP out all wood and go with coosa .But seriously will the boat still be on the water 40 years now? Its solid wood ,you obviously know what you are doing, leave well enough alone and strengthen the top. Love your videos keep up the good work.
First contact the owner of the boat and determine the financial commitment he/she wants to commit to. Another option could be to thicken the transom with another layer of wood. All wood or all synthetic, not two different types of transom materiel.
All stress will now be at port and starboard side under gunnel. You dont need to go all the way acrossed to sides and lock it in.building up transom is great . but if the sides cant hold stress also its pulling on corners and sides of boat
Keep the core if something happens to it later on it would be due to neglect or misuse, neither is your problem. You might also consider wrapping the new material around both sides of the boat as well for additional strength perhaps 6'' or more up the sides, think of it as the difference between the ease of bending a flat shaped bar verses an L shaped bar.
I take it that you thought it needed to be redone because it looked like a hack job? Rip it all out so you never have second thoughts that you are doing a re-hack job.
I would recommend working with what you have already but rather than huge layups increase the overall structure by bonding coosa stiffness into an appropriate structural grill and then tab and glass it all in. Similar to the bilge in a modern sailing yacht - know what I mean?
Watching you and this transom drives the notion there is no substitute for doing it right the first time, cheaper, less labor, better in every way. Thanks for another great episode. Be mindful with xylene, it rips apart all fat molecules in your body...if you got in on your hands, welcome to the world's worst chap. Bag balm utter cream, with rubber gloves works awesome to undo it. Thanks again and keep up the great work
I own a 40 year old Bertram 33 inboard diesel flybridge cruiser that I have cruised and fished on for 32 years. All old Bertrams are built like battleships. I'd leave as much of the original build as possible, unless of course there has been some physical damage to it.
So, if you’re going to redo the keyholes, that’s another opportunity to evaluate the condition of the core (especially in the area around the mounting bolt that was seeping).
Considering the lengths you are going to restoring this boat why not just bite the bullet and tear it out and replace the entire transom with coosa...it would make for great content and keeping with the spirit of the build and as with most things you do, it would be of far greater quality than the original and should never be an area of concern again simply because coosa doesn't absorb water and should never rot...I know wood has been used for hundreds of years in boat building and with proper construction and care can last a lifetime...but since you have basically devoted thousands of hours and dollars to this build documenting every step why not leave behind something that truly is a legacy of sorts that with proper care may last several life times due mainly to the quality of work you are doing and the superior quality materials used... Thanks for all you do!!! I always look forward to seeing what you are doing next... always interesting and informative... Keep on keeping on brother!
No chance like the present one to replace. Much much easier now to go all the way. That said, a looooot more time and effort whereas you could just reinforce what is there and be 99% confident that it will be fine.
After watching the video, reading the replies and incorporating my experience as limited as it may be. Your there, hands on ... If the core is absolutely solid and your confident you can seal the finished product -if anyone can, you can- just go ahead a build up. But if anything in your being questions that rebuild, give in to your ocd and rip it all out. I feel certain"YOU" can do a great job either way you go but in the end ... Will you have confidence in the transom work to take out family and friends? Personally, if the core is solid and I know my work and effort will result in a better structure that will last 20 or 30 years minimum. Build it up!!! You already have it down to the original Hull and if that is good then why go through the added time and expense. Find out the specs for the Armstrong bracket and meet or exceed it. I look forward to seeing which way you go and the final product. As always, great work on everything to do.
I vote for no replacement however I would extend the upper taped area further up the transom by removing that bulged out area above the tape. Without extending it up further I believe that you will still have a hinged point just below the bulge and will be subject to future breakage. Yes I know you will be putting additional larger pieces over that but deep inside there will be a weak point below the bulge.
Hi Andy: Think about the worse case scenario. The two outboard on the transom. Heading into heavy seas with all the torque of those outboard motors. Think of something happened to that transom; because you didn’t take it apart to see if was made strong enough for the two outboards.
Keep it! These guys saying tear it out don't have to do the work, and they just want to see more videos. I'd probably hole saw out each bolt hole and set a plug of coosa in for the new holes. Or epoxy/glass tube for a ferrule.
If it was my boat, I'd keep what's there. It's dry and solid, you can skin it with more glass and even add another core layer which would significantly enhance the structure when you install the pod extension. Remember, you started with a project boat. If you wanted a completely new boat, you'd have started with a mold. :)
Build it out & roll with it. In 35-40yrs you won’t be worried about boats at that time! Go get it done & enjoy it, summer time is around the corner. While we are all still here, go enjoy as you much as possible. Stay safe & keep the good videos rolling! 🍻⛵️
When you are building an awesome boat, and coming this far, why stop at 90% awesome? Also, from an educational standpoint, showing viewers how to overcome a pain in the butt job, and do it in totality, and finish with an unquestionably structurally sound job is something great in itself. As for everyone saying they want to see it on the water immediately, there are tons of other channels to watch with boats on the water. I found this channel because I was learning how to work on my boat.
Open the keys holes for further examination. If everything is fine then repair key holes and add crisscross pattern of acoosa to build transom.
Does Coosa have "grain?" Would he end up with better strength going crosswise than he would with overlapping laminations?
I know little to nothing so bare with me, I do believe Coosa board is bidirectional.
I've so been there on cutting where I shouldn't, not on a boat, though, on a piano soundboard (I'm a piano technician). Recovering from that actually gave me some skills that provided me a decent living over the years, but it sure as hell didn't seem like that at the time!! In terms of your poll, due what your patrons vote for. I'd be one if I could afford it... I've learned a lot, and really appreciate your instructive videos!
I'd say if you're going to take the core out of that transom, just cut the whole back out. Yeah it means rebuilding most of the transom from nothing. But it also means you're done with the tear down in a day, and the heavy lifting part is construction, rather than grinding and tear down.
If the transom core is in good shape, keep it. However, I would enlarge all of the current drilled holes and fill with epoxy and redrill. This will help to ensure that any future water intrusion around the bolts for the outboard motor platform is protected from the wood core.
I've been watching you for a while now. And the one thing I noticed is you DON'T take shortcuts, nor do you put out shoddy work. Whatever you do will turn out better than factory. I for one, what you to keep it and get that boat out on Superior with your family. :)
I used a lot of encapsulated exterior grade Fir plywood when I refit my sailboat. We tore it all apart for recycling last year and after twenty-seven year's on the ocean I didn't have a single area that water got into. My point being, and as you already know, properly done plywood is an excellent product for use on boats.
Getting ready to do the transom on my 26 CC and binge watching all your videos. Appreciate the effort taken to film and starting your channel.
You have invested so much time on this Boat to make it like new. Change the whole thing!
Andy, great job. You are a true pro. With transoms being a big problem with a lot of boats. I would like to see it stripped down to the plywood and replaced properly. A lot of viewers would benefit from the correct way to do their boats correct. Please show how to check for moisture before you tear in to the job👍
Right, bold suggestion, lengthen the boat and incorporate the mounting for the engines.
This would be my preferred approach, as it removes the need to also strip the solid plywood core, allows you build a brand new transom and even potentially removes the need of a transom bracket!
@@AdrianoCisternino yep, that was my reasoning too. And one more thing, I really think it will be faster, inboard versus outboard needs a longer length.
Andy, don't spend all that time and headache ripping out the plywood. Since the plywood is dry then it will be fine like you say for 20-30 years, it makes no sense to remove it. I'd say just thicken it up with the new foam boards, enlarge the holes and fill them with epoxy and re-drill them to the original size so the plywood stays fully sealed. It will be more than strong enough. Love the attention you give to these projects, really great workmanship !
I understand wanting to have the peace of mind that it has been replaced with the coosa, but with the amount of work it will take to rip out a perfectly good transom, I think you should leave it. Take the time to make sure it’s sealed up perfectly and move on.
Hi Andy, I voted to keep the plywood, but I do have a caveat to that vote. Rip that funky wood out of the old key holes. At that point you can make a couple of judicious cuts and assess how well the plywood is bonded around the key holes. If it is solid, then fill in the key holes and beef the rest of the transom up. If there is delamination, well you know what you have to do.
As far as the transom per se, I doubt it matters structurally which method you choose. I'm confident you can do either correctly or make it look fantastic. Consider doing whatever is less time consuming. Now that the dead and live live loads (especially thrust) you've added to the transom by using outboards will be adequately supported by the transom, the concern is to ensure that the these loads will be transmitted to the stringer system and hull bottom/sides adequately to prevent over stressing the stringer/hull frame (racking and flexing). Great project Andy. Love the series.
A tip for removing the Armstrong bracket; support the bracket with your hoist then use a long piece of 80lb mono or braided fishing line, tie some sticks around the ends and wrap it around the joint and saw trough the 5200 like butter. When you remount the bracket leave a new rip cord for the next guy before you use your 5200 or boat works similar. Looks Good, Bill W
I was taught “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. You have said that plywood is stronger than coosa. If you leave it you know you will do whatever is necessary to ensure it is water tight. The time saved can be put towards other repairs and as others have said, you will be on the water sooner rather than later.
Andy, Keep what ya have if it's good and build that bad boy up. I did a small transom this summer and it was one heck of a job.
I work for a boatyard and have installed many armstrong brackets, and even have one on my own boat.
Standard transom thickness is about 2". Two 3/4 sheets of plywood or coosa laminated together, and outside skin of 3/16 to 1/4 and an inside skin of about an 1/8. In good condition that will support a bracket and twin 130's no problem.
The Bertram 25 was initially designed for inboards only and only has a small section of traditionally cored transom. That bump-out area. Should be two layers of 3/4 plywood in there. The rest of the transom is solid glass but thin, as you discovered.
I'd leave the existing plywood core, redo the keyholes, and laminate two layers of 3/4 coosa over the entire inside of the transom, using filler or oddball pieces to bring all the levels up. I would then also build some coosa knees to tie the transom to the top of every stringer. On my 1979 23 seacraft I installed an armstrong bracket on, I did three knees. One to each of the tops of the large box stringers, and another to the center stringer.
I would also remove the bracket from the transom and grind off the bottom paint and re-bed the bracket to the hull NOT to the top coat of the existing bottom paint, which is how it looks.
With the bracket off you could also dig out the transom core from around every bracket bolt hole and fill with thickened epoxy and re-drill. Then the core would be truly sealed and you would have nice solid chunks of epoxy in the transom to tighten the bolts to.
Just my .02 cents USD.
Loving your videos, as I do a lot of systems and structrual work, but am just getting into the refinishing aspect of boat work. Learning a lot from you about gelcoat and paintwork. Keep up the good work!
I for one would like to see you fix the transom as is. Your work is stellar, and I believe it would be more realistic for us viewers to see you repair from the solid " leftovers" you have now. Love your work and channel !
After many years of doing different projects on cars, boats and buildings (i moved my own house to it's present location) there comes a point where it is easier to start from the beginning than to try to go over someones else's work.
Replace the whole transom because you will regret not doing it.
Referring to my own house every time that i make a repair or modify it to suit my needs, I end up doing more work than required. For example the wiring in the house is mostly 14 gauge wire, when you increase the load you have to rewire the area with 12 or even 10 gauge wire. To accomplish this you have to open up the wall to remove the old wire and replace it with new. Another time one of the floor joist had cracked at a large knot at the stairway opening you had to remove the stairs to replace it.
It would have be easier to build the house from the ground up rather than constantly rebuilding it.
Build off what is there!
Double glass the sides of Coosa and pre drill some small fill holes. After each Coosa board is tabbed in, squirt some filler in the holes starting low and going up. (micro balloons/spheres & resin?) 😃
May just be me, but if the current setup is dry and solid I’d reinforce it an be done with it.
I think if you're gonna fill the key holes with glass you should just redo the whole thing and make it all a solid piece of coosa.
thank you for the non virus related content. also...
Mas on sail life had the same decision to make regarding his rotted stringers on athena. he decided to simply reinforce in place with enough material to make the rotted cores a non-issue because quite simply it was the easiest path to a workable solution. i learn something valuable and new from each of your videos and though i would dearly love to see the process of removal and reinforcement, perhaps the best lesson learned here is, "if it aint broke don't fix it."
Pez Pengy I think Mads messed up by just glassing over the rotten beams. If just adding a few more layers of glass made it as strong as glass laminated over wood don’t you think the original designer would have just made the whole thing out of a few more layers of glass to start with. There is no way that Mads way is stronger than original glass over wood plank . He may regret it later. I hope not though.
@@mwatkins2464 Mads Athena stringer lay up was engineered to the hull weight, there is no way it is weaker than the original in original condition which relied on the wood core (which decomposed) as part of the stringer strength. Go back and watch how many layers it took before you say "few more layers" again so you transfer the info accurately.
Why would the original designer add that much more glass? It's waiste of time and money. Also, how accurate durability calculations were in 1985? If any analysis was made in the beginning.
I think Mads had a finite element analysis made to assess his options with the stringers. His only possible problem with the rotten wood is the added smell to the boat.
@@mwatkins2464 In a beam most of the strength is in the outside. The middle is just there to keep the outside in the right place. An I beam is a good example. The two big flanges take the load and the middle web just keeps the flanges in the right place. Mads added a lot of glass on the outside so those beams are probably much stronger than the origainal setup. It wasn't done that way in the factory because it is difficult to glass over air to create a hollow structure. Also wood is a lot cheaper than glass.
I'd like to see you get out on the water this year.
Mars Rover it’s illegal right now in south Florida.
Keep it and do your thing, it’s fine, like you said, it’s gonna last. I have no doubt whatsoever it will be perfect and strong enough to hold those monsters!!
When in doubt? Tear it out! Don't sandwich plywood behind Coosa. May be extra work and a bit of overkill. But it's done and done right.
BTW the leaking bolt is a red herring, there was no water leaking OUT Between the Armstrong mount and the transom.
Only has to be water tight on that joint, that bolt is INSIDE the water tight compartment. Andy your good 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hi Andy what is interesting to me is seeing how well or not so well new material has bonded to the old or original material. I think this is a lesson in being suspicious of all repairs or modifications. I have watched your videos covering the bond quantity between epoxy and polyester but this really demonstrates the importance of getting that right. I know these flat panels don't take much sheer strain but somewhat surprised how easily they are separating.
You've gotten this far with removal of virtually the entirely of the reinforcement area.
If you continue on to the actual area they reinforced, you'll eliminate the uncertainty of questions about that area.
You'll be starting a new chapter for the reliability of the entire project, because You have addressed the area, compleatly.
The engines are large and lots to stress to the transom area is transferred from them to this area, best to know what you have with No surprises.
Great work Andy!👍🏻
Do you have, or could you make, a video on the different materials you use and the tools as well. What they all do and how they're used? Kind of a fiberglass 101. You're the best fiberglass teacher on RUclips
I own a 1966, V26 Stamas, originally a single Chrysler Dana Drive I/O, that I repowered with a twin outboard bracket & 200 HP outboards. The transom was well sealed in fiberglass at the factory, there was no water intrusion, and the plywood core was as solid and hard as when the boat was built. That's over 50 years. If the original construction is good, and no water has penetrated, there's no reason to replace the plywood core. Reinforcing for the bracket loads is the bigger issue. Greg
I'd make sure to put in three knees going to the stringers. Center one to the keel.
Definitely keep it, it seems to add work for little benefit.
Loved the thumbnail of you with the wood splitting axe asking if it was a mistake. Almost fell down laughing. 🤣
Go all the way up for future equipment mounting! Just build off it.
Never trouble trouble, unless troubble troubles you. If it's good, keep it and move on. -kao
I'd replace it. That way to know 100% for sure its solid and stays that way.
Keep what’s there , build off of that . Be extra vigilant on sealing it up when you reinstall all the hardware. Coat every hole that has to go through the transom liberally with an epoxy or some other waterproofing that will soak in thoroughly inside the holes . 👍👍😊
Drill fill drill
Don't fix what isn't broke. I'm sure you'll seal it properly and it will last forever. Beef it up and keep up the good work! Love your videos.
Drill oversized bolt holes fill with thickened epoxy to seal out any chance of water intrusion via bolt holes. Fix the previous attempt to fill the outdrive holes. Lastly build it up and glass it in.
After rebuilding the whole boat, I would not leave the old transom in there. The water meter may not pick up moisture because it’s been inside your shop for several years. Tear it out and replace with something you know is solid.
Hey Andy, I would drill a few test holes around where the bolts go though the transom about 3 or 4 " from the hull check for rot near the bolts. That may give you better idea what mitt be happening with the wood in the transom. If you find it to be dry, fill in the top and glass over the inside of the transom leaving the hull ID plate open. I mitt even clean that off so it is easy to read if that is possible. Tech tips from Yachtsmen's tool box .
What would be the most efficient way? What would be the most satisfying way. If building over will work and your happy with it, go that route. If blowing it out would help you sleep better, go that route. Myself, sleeping better is always the better route in the end. Even if it seems unnecessary.
Keep the core in place and build it up.
If its as good and dry as you think it probably is. Skin it and add some supports overlapping those weak spots. One option is to build a bracket support to transfer the load onto the old engine mounts so to say that way you might eliminate any twisting when throttling up. If in doubt just over do it :) keep up the great work 💪
I think u should do the full coosa transom , for a few reasons. #1 more content for ur channel .I mean ur channel really help me with my 17ft boston super sport now it's perfect . #2 u wont have to ever redo it #3 it will be even stronger I mean the ocean is unpredictable and with ur family involved. Safety is no 1 priority. By the way love them bertram my dream boat.
This part of the build I find interesting, as have rebuilt a few transoms over year's learning new, better methods allways is good.
Have you ever thought about using a router flattening jig, as woodworkers do when flattening slabs for table tops and so? That could ease your work when adding layers of coosa. Fill up the low spots. Flatten the surface and then add one large panel piece instead of creating a puzzle. You might wanna invest in a large vacuum though, to catch all the dust that the router creates.
I've never tried it my self, but the thought seems worthwhile thinking about.
My guess about the piece removed by misstake. It will ease your work because the transom became a whole lot flatter surface to work on. And the saved time and effort on the transom will worth more than the time and effort lost.
Rip out out drive fillers. If transom wood OK leave it in place and glass in really good fit non rot replacement. Level up transom as you add another 1 - 2 inches of thickness.
Ensure all bolt holes are fully sealed with resin before sealing bolts in place. Glad it's you doing it and not me.
Replace the whole thing, cons...more work and more materials, pros...you are the kind of guy that likes everything done the right way, coosa over plywood will be hammering in your head as long as you own the boat, coosa is stronger than plywood and weights less, plus it doesn't matter if by any chance you have water intrusion through the screw holes, another pro is that it will make more episodes for your RUclips channel and that's how you are making money now, plus there are a lot of us that really enjoy your videos and the super quality work you do, all that while helping others, like me.
Keep the transom and build on top of it!
Great video! I like mistakes, I learn a lot like I've said before! Mistakes show your not a fake! Keep up the GREAT WORK!
Happy Sunday Andy how you doing this is big knucklehead down here in Miami Florida I would say keep the existing and build off of it two reasons one you already done a full transom rebuild video and this will give us a different look of how to address transom issues and second since you have already determined that everything under there's pretty much good then it makes no sense of burning through material in order to replace something that's not broken at least that's my two cents brother hope you and your family are well and healthy and I look forward to seeing your next video thanks
My vote is to build up the low points (top/sides) to the same thickness as the ply using coosa. Then cover everything for as far as the transom will allow with a single sheet of coosa. That would effectively spread the load across almost all of the transom.
Careful of project creep, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The whole "while I'm here I should...." results in a project you never get to enjoy, scab it all up to the same level then add a solid panel on top of that.
Would cut it all out and make sure there is no rot. Also bring out the rear gunnel and add a cooler/ live well in the middle with a a toe undercut for fishing off the back
Work with what you got. I would like to see some horizontal structure across the transom and to the topsides to take the thrust load and transfer it to the hull. Even a box type grid or a couple of box beams and then covered with coosa. Space is not an issue .
would love to see how to replace a wood transom with coosa and if the wood goes bad, then you'll need to remove the coosa and the wood
noli novio look up born again boating on RUclips he’s done a refit with coosa
I would use 1/4 coosa then layer of fiberglass till it is all level and then continue till you get the thickness you want. For the bolt holes, core out a 2 to 3" hole fill with a coosa plug and thickened epoxy to seal the plywood.
Using your words, the transom core is like new and it is over 50 years old! Don't rip it out. Beef it up and keep going.
HAVING OWNED ONE OF THESE UNITS, I KNOW HOW STRONG THAT RANSOM IS, 400 PLUS HORSE HOLMAN MOODY SETUP HELD WELL , BOAT WAS DROPPED WHILE BEING LIFTED, HAD TRANSOM AND KEEL X RAYED NO PROBLEM. ADDING THICKNESS WILL STRENGTHEN THE ALREADY STRONG TRANSOM.
Leave the good transom and strengthen it.
You are good. Leave the existing build and rely on your ability to get the bonding to hold
Add 1/4” stainless backing plates to distribute the load, add horizontal knees to the sides port and stbd.
Good work. Scary how bodgers can wreck a boat. Make it like new, those big outboards will really add stress it wasn't meant to take.
Xylene (more normally called “xylenes”, as it’s normally a mixture of dimethylated benzene by location). It’s a solvent found in tons of adhesives because it evaporates slower than toluene. It is also used as a straight up solvent because it dissolves hydrocarbons very well.
My question to you is gonna be!!! Whats gonna give YOU the GREATEST peace of mind! what is gonna be the strongest, as others have said if it aint broke dont fix it! but if this is gonna be for you and your family, then you have to do what you believe is gonna be best. I would build up the low area and then finish the whole area with the coosa like you described. Take care and be safe.
I'm not educated enough to have an answer that will help you. But as a fan I'll support your decision either way. That being said, I'd love to see this thing in the water this year.
Total Boat Dewaxer and Surface Prep (according to their SDS) is 6% Xylene, 36% Ispropol Alchahol and 60% Naptha
You already know the core is good. I would level it out the way you were originally thinking then Coosa board all the way up and across. I would worry more about the "oops" than anything else. Tying that back into the transom is going to be the weak link so I would tie that in first before doing the transom. You're already in there anyway so why not do a little overkill and do two layers of coosa board and make it to the thickness you know will be safe, then you would also have more strength at that joint repair. Just my two cents. I enjoy your videos, and you gave me the confidence to do a pretty aggressive project on a 235 Glastron. Keep up the good work and good luck on this project.
Andy I’m on the fence on what I would do, if the boat is going to sit in the water during the boating season 24/7 where it has more of a chance to develop leaks, I might consider replacing the plywood, if the boat is going to be trailered to and from the lake, I would probably leave it, just my thoughts 👍😁
Despite the backyard job done to try and stiffen up the transom, the original core is still in good nick even with all the bolt holes drilled through it. For me, I'd keep the original core and anywhere you have to drill through the transom, overdrill the holes, backfill with thickened epoxy and then drill (when fully cured of course) to the final required size. The good old..."drill, fill, drill" technique. I would do the the backfilling before you proceed with the additional Coosa stiffening then do the final drill after the stiffening work is done. In my mind, doing it this way it will give you peace of mind that you have completely sealed off the interrnal ply core from the elements. A whole lot easier than spending day after day after day trying to remove a perfectly good core.
I didn't see an active link to the poll, maybe try it out on the community tab? Either way, my vote is to leave it to your great grandchildren's greater ingenuity and access to new technologies to address it in the future restoration 40 years from now. It might be novel and quaint to see actual wood at that point. Think of their smiles! Plus Lase-rbeaming it off with a robot will probably be as common as using a tape measures by then.
Keep it and build off it! Most boat owners would follow that course me thinks!
I'm currently replacing the transom on my 2000 striper seaswirl in which you gave me advice via email and your fiberglass resin guide (thanks again)..being that its an older boat I wanted to keep costs down so I bonded marine ply to existing glass with thickend epoxy and finished the rest of the glass with pe resin. I came to this conclusion using the repair workflow chart on your resin guide.. according to that you should use laminating pe or ve resin for all repair work. I like charts like that it makes decisions like this easier. Hope this helps
Andy, I’ve been watching your videos for a long time and you are one of the best on “how to” instructor videos I’ve seen on RUclips. My question is that why not go further in conducting an experiment to put your skills to the test. Why not discard the outboard bracket and run stringers through the transom and make an integral outboard bracket? Personally, if I had the time, which a lot of folks might have during this epidemic I’d rather do something that would last for a long time. You have the shop, the materials to do it and with some imagination it can be done.?
Couldn't find the link to the poll. Everyone is going to say RIP out all wood and go with coosa .But seriously will the boat still be on the water 40 years now? Its solid wood ,you obviously know what you are doing, leave well enough alone and strengthen the top. Love your videos keep up the good work.
First contact the owner of the boat and determine the financial commitment he/she wants to commit to. Another option could be to thicken the transom with another layer of wood. All wood or all synthetic, not two different types of transom materiel.
All stress will now be at port and starboard side under gunnel. You dont need to go all the way acrossed to sides and lock it in.building up transom is great . but if the sides cant hold stress also its pulling on corners and sides of boat
Keep the core if something happens to it later on it would be due to neglect or misuse, neither is your problem. You might also consider wrapping the new material around both sides of the boat as well for additional strength perhaps 6'' or more up the sides, think of it as the difference between the ease of bending a flat shaped bar verses an L shaped bar.
Rip it out remove all doubt, I’m watching your doing....ya have to build it up anyway!
I take it that you thought it needed to be redone because it looked like a hack job? Rip it all out so you never have second thoughts that you are doing a re-hack job.
I would recommend working with what you have already but rather than huge layups increase the overall structure by bonding coosa stiffness into an appropriate structural grill and then tab and glass it all in. Similar to the bilge in a modern sailing yacht - know what I mean?
Watching you and this transom drives the notion there is no substitute for doing it right the first time, cheaper, less labor, better in every way.
Thanks for another great episode. Be mindful with xylene, it rips apart all fat molecules in your body...if you got in on your hands, welcome to the world's worst chap. Bag balm utter cream, with rubber gloves works awesome to undo it. Thanks again and keep up the great work
We all know that it is not 'if wood fails' but when. So you know what the best choice is. Do it, without fear
I own a 40 year old Bertram 33 inboard diesel flybridge cruiser that I have cruised and fished on for 32 years. All old Bertrams are built like battleships. I'd leave as much of the original build as possible, unless of course there has been some physical damage to it.
So, if you’re going to redo the keyholes, that’s another opportunity to evaluate the condition of the core (especially in the area around the mounting bolt that was seeping).
I agree,it'd be the best way to reach a final decision. But chances are it's fine and best left in place.
Considering the lengths you are going to restoring this boat why not just bite the bullet and tear it out and replace the entire transom with coosa...it would make for great content and keeping with the spirit of the build and as with most things you do, it would be of far greater quality than the original and should never be an area of concern again simply because coosa doesn't absorb water and should never rot...I know wood has been used for hundreds of years in boat building and with proper construction and care can last a lifetime...but since you have basically devoted thousands of hours and dollars to this build documenting every step why not leave behind something that truly is a legacy of sorts that with proper care may last several life times due mainly to the quality of work you are doing and the superior quality materials used... Thanks for all you do!!! I always look forward to seeing what you are doing next... always interesting and informative... Keep on keeping on brother!
No chance like the present one to replace. Much much easier now to go all the way. That said, a looooot more time and effort whereas you could just reinforce what is there and be 99% confident that it will be fine.
After watching the video, reading the replies and incorporating my experience as limited as it may be. Your there, hands on ... If the core is absolutely solid and your confident you can seal the finished product -if anyone can, you can- just go ahead a build up. But if anything in your being questions that rebuild, give in to your ocd and rip it all out.
I feel certain"YOU" can do a great job either way you go but in the end ... Will you have confidence in the transom work to take out family and friends?
Personally, if the core is solid and I know my work and effort will result in a better structure that will last 20 or 30 years minimum. Build it up!!! You already have it down to the original Hull and if that is good then why go through the added time and expense. Find out the specs for the Armstrong bracket and meet or exceed it.
I look forward to seeing which way you go and the final product. As always, great work on everything to do.
I vote for no replacement however I would extend the upper taped area further up the transom by removing that bulged out area above the tape. Without extending it up further I believe that you will still have a hinged point just below the bulge and will be subject to future breakage. Yes I know you will be putting additional larger pieces over that but deep inside there will be a weak point below the bulge.
Keep it. If it's not broken and perfectly good.
Hi Andy:
Think about the worse case scenario. The two outboard on the transom. Heading into heavy seas with all the torque of those outboard motors. Think of something happened to that transom; because you didn’t take it apart to see if was made strong enough for the two outboards.
Build on top of the existing transom.
my farther who was a boat builder for many years use to say never build or repair something to last for 30 years build it to out live yourself
Perfection is the enemy of "It's Perfectly Fine" with your add-ons.
Just my humble opinion!
Keep it! These guys saying tear it out don't have to do the work, and they just want to see more videos. I'd probably hole saw out each bolt hole and set a plug of coosa in for the new holes. Or epoxy/glass tube for a ferrule.