THIS is a Masterpiece. DoDonPachi DaiOuJou Re:Incarnation Review (Nintendo Switch, PS4)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- THIS is a Masterpiece. DoDonPachi DaiOuJou Re:Incarnation Review (Nintendo Switch, PS4). I've waited years for this moment and it has finally arrived. DoDonPachi DaiOujOu has finally received a proper port from the masters themselves, M2 Shottriggers. This is not an ordinary release. This isn't just a rom slapped on a laggy emulator shipped out with no features or reason to buy other than collecting a game you've been emulating for years. Unlike other devs, M2 not only compete with the performance of unlicensed emulation, but they also add in meaningful features that you simply cannot get with unlicensed emulation, or even with original hardware. They are the gold standard and they absolutely do not disappoint with this release.
For those new to the genre, Dodonpachi DaiOuJou is arguably the greatest shmup ever made. I would say that it is, but the top 5 of the genre are stiff competition, so it's at least very safe in that tier. In this review I not only sing to the choir of the genre, who are probably pretty familiar with DOJ, but I really try to explain for newer players or outsiders to the genre what makes this game a real masterpiece (and not just the flavor of the month), it's interesting overlaps with the anime masterpiece Ghost in the Shell (1995), and why it's influence and design continue to endure over the years.
This review is massive and covers topics like the game's striking visuals, iconic music, awesome cyberpunk aesthetic, enemy design, background design, color pallet, survival balance, difficulty curve, scoring system, snowballing, boss battles, input lag on PS4/PS5 and Nintendo Switch, training features, leader boards, board variants (White Label, Black Label, Grey Label), dynamic difficulty (rank), gadgets, art, and take an in depth look at the new arrange modes, and much more!
If you want to get this game, which I strongly recommend, you can get it on the Japanese eshop or PSN. It's on Nintendo Switch and PS4/PS5, though I strongly recommend the PS4/PS5 version for the lower input lag, extra save states, and more competitive leader boards.
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Happy update: the hitbox has now been patched to be visible in black and gray label now :-)
Vox populai...or something
To all Millennials and Gen-Z who think they know it all because their parents told them they are winners no matter what. Don't get Masterpiece mixed up with just being a well made game which all games should be. And if a game is a remake of its original that came out over 5-10 years ago or even more that doesn't automatically make it a masterpiece. Executing everything perfectly from Sound Track, Controls, Graphics, Story and engagement on top of it being launched without a bunch of bugs add up to it being a "Masterpiece" which has to be a universal agreement.
@@chrisbullock6477My dad was born the same year that World War II started is more likely to call a recent work of superlative quality a masterpiece than I am.
The historical meaning of the word was a work of a high enough quality that the craftsman that worked on it would be accepted into the guild. The passage of time is not a historically accepted part of the evaluation process.
More recently, Oxford Languages defines it as “a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship.” Again, there is no requirement for the passage of time.
Having come from a family of writers (including editors of national magazines and a novelist whose debut novel was acclaimed in both the New Yorker and New York Times) and having edited magazines myself for decades, the idea that everyone should subscribe to the same set of standards in areas that are (by their very nature) subjective (as is the case with preferences) seems rather unreasonable.
Being a “masterpiece” is not the same as being selected for the Criterion Collection, etc. Different people will choose different things.
@TheElectricUnderground That’s great! :)
@@chrisbullock6477I’m curious as to what prompted you to launch the criticism at Millenials and Gen Z when earlier generations were already going a step further than you’ve described and labeling their own works as a masterpiece.
While many people have indeed called Myst a masterpiece, it was the company itself that released the Myst “Masterpiece Edition” six years after the games release in 1999 at a time when there were no prominent individuals from either generation involved. Similarly, The Manhole from the late 80s got a “Masterpiece Edition” in the early 90s. There were several other examples from the same time period.
Before we go attributing things we dislike to specific generations I think it’s important to try to account for the natural tendency towards a recency bias and take steps to counteract it.
We NEED, WE DEMAND a PC/STEAM version!
The idea of the enemy placement making sense with the background environment is a huge deal for me. It's the main factor that got me to branch out from touhou games to arcade. Makes the stages very memorable
Oh yeah it adds a lot of extra depth to the gameplay because the ground based enemies can be passed over without collision and can be sealed (fire suppressed), but in touhou all the enemies are air based basically, so that bullet sealing doesn't work in the same way
While not really a bullet hell, Tyrian actually did this really well.
I came here to express my sadness that the game is not on Steam. Also, thank you for the excellent review. I'm so happy for you that your fav game got some serious TLC.
Yeah it's a bummer we don't get the shottrigger ports on steam, they would really be able to connect with a wider audience if they were on PC. I think it's a budget restriction, but that's just a guess.
It is on steam!
@@redcrimson1028no, thats dodonpachi resurrection. Theres also the nokia version of dai ou jou. But no, this is not on Steam WTF are you talking about
I don't understand why they can get G-Darius HD on Steam, which seems like a complex M2 port, but not Battle Garegga or DDP DOJ
@@voutespancarJapanese companies sure have weird marketing ideas 🙂.
Your thorn analogy is too on point. I used to think a lot of games I played as a kid had these random difficulty spikes because I was encountering new situations and concepts, but over the years, and after going back to play more of the classics, I've come to realize that a lot modern video games hardly offer a challenge anymore. So many of them shy away from ever possibly making a player feel even slightly out of their element of placid engagement. With many constraints and obstacles being removed from games these days, you are often left with very pretty toys or elaborate presentations with nothing to offer but passive stimulation and creative play. Even outside of action oriented games, like turn-based RPGs, you will find that a lot lack any necessity for forethought and adaptation. There is nothing inherently wrong with any of this, but when so many games are dressed up to emulate a genre or series to only then discard their mechanisms and conventions, you are missing out on the greatest strength video games have to offer. Through adversity is where games shine. Through adversity is where you achieve the strongest sense of satisfaction. Through adversity is where you find fun.
This is why I really appreciate companies like M2 and community figures like Mark. You both value what the medium has to offer and wish to recognize and preserve the accomplished art of its creators.
This is even worse with indie games, so many of them want to convince you that they're "like the classics", but really that's a lie, they feel NOTHING like the classics because of many reasons but mainly the difficulty is either non-existant or they try to be "difficult" but end up being frustrating for the sake of being frustrating without ever understanding what a "challenge" is and what makes it fun in the first place.
Strong coffee? Ah, you make a good point, though. A difficult game with fine controls that’s brilliantly presented merits lots of additional plays, like Super Ghouls ‘N’ Ghosts, just to name one off the top of our head. But ramping the challenge is equally as important: With many shmups, the first level is often a throwaway, and by just the second or third stage you find yourself in very deep sh*t!
Oh yes it's such an important topic, one of the most relevant when it comes to game design these days I think. Part of the reason why older games had these difficulty spikes (which I am grateful for) is that the developer and player had a much different relationship back then. In the arcade era, part of what the player paid for was challenge, that was a legit selling point of a game. Imagine you bought a game for full price, and then went home and beat it first try. You'd feel completely ripped off because you'd have no replay value. However, these days devs openly say that the most important playthrough is the first, cuz they are scared you won't continue playing because of the abundance of alternatives. So what you get is that instead of encountering games that are bold and challenging, you encounter games that are scared to challenge you too much, and so really sand down that difficulty curve to be as mild as possible. GREAT COMMENT!
I agree, it's a nuanced part of game design that is easy to gloss over. About a decade ago I created a mod (set of stages) for Streets of Rage Remake and mostly followed an iterative approach to difficulty at the beginning, with gradually increasing numbers/toughness of enemies. However, later on in the design process I looked back at the beat-em-ups I held dear and the memorable moments from them. And what stuck out for me were the thorns - that one damn boss, that one section that gives me trouble, etc.
So I started putting sections like that in the mod. A punishing elevator section on Stage 3 with tons of enemies. An evil fight in the middle of Stage 4 with two bosses that compliment each other's weakness very well. And I think that design helps a game to not become routine and keep the player on their toes - you never know what nasty surprise will come next.
Difficulty spikes are often bad gamedesign because they are almost always unintentional and caused by developer oversight
I appreciate a good challenge but it has to be a well designed one
Amazing review. Seriously. This game deserves it and you really delivered. You’re like the M2 shock triggers of shmup reviews lol; setting a new standard for game critique and analysis. I remember there was a time where you could find lots of in-depth video game analysis on youtube (MatthewMatosis comes to mind); but nobody ever touched shmups. Somehow you created an hour long review of DOJ that is fun to watch and consistently insightful. Props dude. Now I have to get a PS4 though. I was trying to convince myself that it’s not worth it, but it seems like this port alone is enough. I’ve also never tried black label, so I’m pretty interested in seeing how it compares. A smaller hitbox sounds super appealing, since it opens up the door for ridiculous miracle dodges. Perfect for those times when you feel like compromising your routs and playing like a maniac.
Might as well get a PS5. It’s a better machine and nearly 100% backwards compatibility for PS4 games.
Hey playa! Thanks so much for the flattering comparison! This review was really important to me because I wanted to try my best to explain to not only shmup players, but also newcomers or those unfamiliar with the genre, why this game is so special. And that's pretty tricky to do without getting super in the weeds about game design ha, so I'm glad to hear that you think it's helping people relate to the genre more. It does seem like an odd oversight that Matosis never talked much about shmups, it seems like the type of thing he'd be really interested in. Who knows, maybe someday if he starts making vids more regularly again.
Glad you got deep into DOJ as a game, not just how good a port it is!
Yes, it felt really nice to be able to talk about the game at length, there is so much great game design going on.
I really appreciate your point about "thorns" in the game difficulty. Id even argue it applies to way more than just the difficulty curve. I was thinking alot about this while analyzing why I find alot of older games more exciting and enduring. The truth is, if your game is clean, nice, inoffensive, and leads the way, you end up with something forgettable, boring, and disposable.
Smartly designed games with grit and edge always come out on top because they give the player all these iconic moments and mechanics to latch onto, and encourage deeper player interaction with the game. If the game holds your hand, there's no room to bond with the game.
The mega man games, for example, are ripe with annoyances, weird exploits, and inconsistency. But I think what makes them so timeless for me personally, is that im encouraged to converse with the game itself beyond simply "playing" it - im getting to know it. I remember every single part.
I can gush about all the hard moments and tricks in NES super mario bros, but only give a light passing smile to mario wonder. It lacks edge, so it lacks deeper engadgment. I beat it, it felt nice, Im done with it forever. Mario 64 is infinitly more interesting than Odyssey for that same reason.
I fell in love with a run & gun called alien hominid that admittedly has alot of weird design choices, but it really pushed me to engadge with the games quirks and get really good at it over time. Of course I wouldnt call alien hominid a masterpiece, but its got a place in my heart and I can recite the game beat by beat.
Basically, games need to get edgy again! Enough with the slop!!!
I love this comment, yes exactly hotstuff you get it. And the thing is that most game design critique and analysis over the past few years have really been all about sanding your game design down to be as tame and digestible as possible. So why many games are not outright broken as some of the games of the past, they also are bland and boring. Making difficulty spikes and more aggressive design is a risk, but there are meaningful pay offs if its done well, as it is in DaiOuJou
A masterpiece is just as good 10 years (or more) as it was on the day it came out. DOJ is an example of that.
YES! One of the key features of a masterpiece is how well it stands up against time.
unlike this video, that feels like an example of something so annoying its unwatchable
I would also add that a masterpiece has to influence what comes after. Michelangelo's La Pietà is still influential to this day. Heck, the box art for some versions of the Xbox 360 release of SDOJ literally reference it with Saya carrying the body Hina in the style of the Pieta.
I believe that all games are as good 10 years later as the day they came out (unless they were patched and updated to oblivion). It's just the public eye that views them differently
How they hold up over time compared to other games
This was an amazing watch. Love to hear what sets DOJ apart from other Cave classics from someone who has spent substantial amounts of time on it and is able to verbalize his analysis and sentiments. Also very much agreed on your points about thorned difficulty. Pure gradual difficulty curve or flow state design is boring for both players and game designers. Monkey wrenches and unexpected challenges are like the seasoning in a good dish that make the player sit up and take notice and they indeed create some of a game's more memorable moments.
Thanks for tuning in my dude! i'm glad you related to my thoughts on difficulty curve because in the past while a lot of difficulty in games has become so tame and sterile that I find myself constantly underwhelmed. I get through an entire game and wonder ... ok where is the hard part supposed to happen ha.
Superb breakdown, thanks for that! I'm really enjoying this port... I hope they bring a western release eventually so these gems don't stay hidden away!
I'm glad to hear it brett! i've been having a fantastic time with the port and I do hope it gets a western release, that really helps the wider audience access it easier. Ketsui finally got one, but it took like a year. Hopefully DOJ will be faster.
Went and checked out the OST, my god your right! its so gooooooooooooood!!!!
Awesome review as always.
Oh, you should have mentioned the new title screen. The artwork, the music... so beautiful! Goosebumps for many, i'm sure
Oh yes the new art goes so hard, it's perfectly in line with the original art, I love it.
Just got this for Christmas. I’m not great at Schmups but have 1CCd the Super Easy mode. Small steps but loving it so far. Love your content and I have learned quite a lot from you on how to control the screen so thanks.
Take it slow! When you first start a new level it will seem impossible, but take note of where rhetoric enemies are spawning. Often the more aggressive you play in this game the better. Good luck!
Really enjoy your reviews! Quite informative. So many RUclips reviews are just looped random footage of a game with someone saying "Game good" or "Game bad" without really going into the mechanics of a game.
Also these M2 games really need to come out for PC, I've bought all of their Switch ones but I'd really like to lose a frame or two of lag and just have them available on steam which I greatly prefer to any of the consoles.
I am floored by the remix version of the OST, you didn't talk about it nearly enough! One of the best I've ever heard in a videogames!I playing the game with it exclusively now.
Finally pulled the trigger and ordered a copy. It was one of the first shmups I played a very long time ago but I've never cleared it. I hope I can finally put it under my belt with this version. Thanks for all you vids !
The original meaning of masterpiece was for a student (or apprentice)'s last work before becoming their own artist/craftsman.
I love that. We need to bring that definition back because that so perfectly describes DOJ. DOJ is the game that cemented CAVE as masters of the genre I think. Like I say in the review it's just firing on all cylinders. Every single aspect of the game is polished and well-made, and that only comes from YEARS of honing their craft as a developer. So I really like this view on the term :-)
That thorned difficulty curve reminds me of what I like so much about Bloodborne and Sekiro. There is a difficulty curve, but some of those bosses really force you to grit your teeth and overcome the challenge.
For Bloodborne it was my first FromSoft game and I remember Father Gascoigne took me hours to overcome (without using music box), but I learned so much about the combat mechanics from those hours spent that the rest of the game went very smoothly. They did a great job forcing you to learn the mechanics and preparing you for the rest of the game
Oh yes, older souls games are full of this. That's one reason why many sections of the games are well remembered. Dark souls 1 has all kinds of stuff like this ha.
I got this a couple weeks ago and I am so blown away by the amount of work and love that went into this by M2. I want ALL Donpachi games to get this treatment!
The sense of mass/weight really is great.
“HEAVY SHMUP” is officially a sub-genre, and a MF terrific one at that.
I really love this video. I've been watching your videos for a long while being a casual shmup fan and often agree with some things and disagree with other things you say (which isn't an issue. I love the different perspective and appreciate your integrity), but I love how in this video you get into what makes the game itself great as well as the port and everything it has to offer and how well it runs on the different consoles. Might be the single best game review of any game I've ever seen. Great job! This game in particular is in my top 5 shmups of all time so I super appreciate the effort to properly convey to people what makes it so amazing.
What a fantastic comment Japinator! I'm glad you watch my channel even though you don't always agree with my analysis, I'd rather have people watching and disagreeing than just speaking to the choir all the time, so that's really cool :-) Also I'm glad you appreciated my extra effort to cover the entire game in the review. I did that because DOJ is a really special game and is a landmark for the genre that I often use to measure other shmups up against (hence masterpiece status). So in my mind, helping people understand why DOJ is so fantastic is also a really good shorthand for explaining the strengths of the genre as a whole. So even though it took a lot of extra time (the vid being an hour and all) I think it was worth it :-) Again I really appreciate the thoughtful comment.
M2 is the gold standard for porting home SHMUPS
City Connections and others should take serious notes from M2 Shottriggers.
As a shmup noob, I will also give out a shoutout to the Super Easy and Lunar Tour modes. M2 STG Super Easy modes tend to be snoozefests - ESP Ra. De. has probably one of the worst Super Easy modes out there. But DOJ still retains enough of the actual difficulty to be an actual challenge that's worth mastering and that will help people get better at the actual game. And Luna Tour has an adaptive difficulty to scale up and down as you succeed and fail, and it cuts the game down into small enough pieces to really master section by section without the need to do your own save states. I wish there was a "fixed rank" option where you can set a specific rank and never have the game go up and down (have to see if Arcade Challenge can do that), but I can fully recommend this M2 STG release of DOJ for anyone that wants to get into bullet hells. It doesn't explain the concepts as well as e.g., Danmaku Unlimited 3, but the difficulty is adjustable enough (also going from Super Easy to Black/Grey/White Label/Arrange EX) to actually be useful. The only thing that this port is missing is Death Label's Double Hibachi, but with rising energy prices, running two washing machines is probably just way too expensive.
“Deep down you love the turtle.” LOL. I missed the livestream but been looking to this video since you announced it. I’m hoping my copy arrives next week from Amazon JP. I can’t wait!
Yes that's an example of powerful game design. Where the game pushes you to a point of hating a boss, due to the sheer punishment, but you also love the boss because of how fun it is to fight ha.
@@TheElectricUnderground True and it’s massively rewarding the moment that difficult boss finally clicks. That’s also the moment that your gameplay looks badass, when you’re able to live through a boss like that.
Love your analysis…no one has as much passion as you! Never stop
Thank you very much DNA! I've been waiting all year to play this bad boy and talk about it, I do think shmups are meaningful art and they deserve to be talked about in that way.
Let me say, on a perfect black display like a crt monitor, the muted backgrounds look so good. The first stage is the single most asthetically pleasing stage in gaming with the lit up yet dark city, and amazing art
Stuff like this is why I'm a patrein of this channel.Incredible review.Thanks for your hard work doing this.
Thank you my dude for supporting the channel. Like I've said many times, the patrons are the reason the channel is able to continue, otherwise I'd have to get a second job IRL or something. So you are subsidizing reviews like this for the rest of the world ha, which is pretty cool if you think about it like that.
Wait a minute, I used to play this on a cab back before all the arcades started dying out here in LA, right along with a bunch of other shmups like Cybattler, Raiden, and Gunbird. Thank you for the throwback.
I'll be back in ten years to call this review a masterpiece. Beyond being a fantastic, in-depth review of the game and port, with great gameplay footage - it also had humor (Sanford Kelly's stick) and the discussion about game difficulty curves was interesting, too.
One of your best I think, keep it up dude :)
Thank you for the very kind comment steve :-) Yes, I'll hold you to returning to this vid in 10 years ha! I'm glad you appreciated the all out approach to the vid because funnily enough that was intentional. I wanted to throw everything I had at the review and I have been building towards covering the game in this manner for years. So yeah a little bit of content and writing synergy there that I'm glad you picked up on.
Glad to see your review today - I know how long you’ve been waiting for this to come out. And 2 frames of input lag on PS4 is really great. :)
Awesome to see your channel blow up, bro! And lovely review of a true masterpiece indeed! Was wicked seeing you do those 1cc runs in the past
Thank you my dude! Yes the channel is just slowly crawling forward, day by day ha. Sort of like CAVE in a way actually. Where CAVE didn't just blow up into mainstream status, but instead kept working and grinding for years to their core audience. Then they went public and the whole thing fell apart ha, so I'll try to avoid that mistake at least lol.
re integration of enemies into the background (7:30): I always felt like Psikyo games did that really well too (Gunbird and Dragon Blaze in particular), but DOJ's one of the best examples I've seen
Oh yes psikyo do a fantastic job, as do Raizing. Raizing are really fun too because they'll sometimes add little ground sprites that are purely decorative, like the little village people in sorcerer striker ha. It sounds like a simple little feature, but getting those grounded enemies placed and routed without it feeling silly is really hard to pull off. And it requires really close cooperation between the background artist and the enemy designer, which is really unique and cool. In most genres, the guy doing the background art has absolutely no impact on game play, let alone such a fundamental one.
@@TheElectricUndergroundTotally agree with you about Sorcer Striker: you can really feel how tightly knit together the team were on that one. Also second the love for Raizing, Psikyo and Cave on DOJ on that point.
It really is wonderful when they work together well like that. You saw a bit of that collaboration for different reasons in the pre-rendered background era of RPGs (with Final Fantasy 9 jumping out as an example for me with some pivotal moment or two where things had to be pulled out of the background).
i was revisiting mushisama today and enjoyed this side of things in it as well
I hope this is the new m2 shottriggers blueprint for games moving forward! I bought this game 3 times, 2 Physicals, 1 digital. Lol
So happy I managed to buy the Limited Edition of this! I hope we get even more Cave goodness in the future.
Oh yeah those bad boys sold out super fast! I hope we get a western release at some point too :-)
Love this game and I'm so glad I got it for Nintendo switch. I'm sad I couldn't afford the mega collectors edition with the glass carving that lights up but I hope other people got it.
that sounds really cool! Maybe there will be another run of it if they do a western release. I'm sort of hoping to pick up a western physical version if it gets made.
Let me guess, us only
God I love DOJ. Great summation and analysis of what makes this game so amazing. Also, sick thumbnail
Thanks so much chase! And yes boghog was firing on all cylinders for this vids thumb! I love it
Bought it and love it. Arcade challenge with the auto rewind feature is THE BEST shmup feature of all time. Thanks for this review and your Wanted Dead support because you are the only person in the world that said that game was good and you were right!
I must try this. The only proper shmup I've played is ikaruga which i absolutely loved. However i started way back with battlesquardon on the Amiga 500... That was cool too heh. Oh and swiv
Remember in swiv when you explode a shield? That was the best feeling of power ever imo
Amazing review! I mostly cover 4X and strategy games, a newcomer to the bullet hell genre who was lucky enough to be on vacation in Japan when this was released and grabbed a copy, but immediately saw the incredible quality of the games design behind it. Think I played it for about four hours straight on the flight back to the UK.
This has got me thinking about games in a different way, not just from thinking about my own stuff through the lens of examining another genre, but your analysis is thorough and particularly the comments on game difficulty were quite eye-opening!
Got a sub from me, thank you!
I wish I could use my M30 on my PS5 for M2 ports. Works fine with every other shmup except M2 games
Oh that's really weird? Is that because the m30 needs some kind of legacy driver or something? it's odd it wouldn't work on ps5 :-( Maybe they'll update the controller.
@@TheElectricUnderground yeah I’m not sure, I’ve checked the firmware. A button is the only thing that works
Still pegging my way through with the arcade stick on Shmuparch here but still went and bought this game even though not got a PS4 yet. Looks like they might become hard to get pretty quick. The PS4 slim might just fit under my monitor. Id say this is worth £300 for whole set up just to play this, and then with Battle Garegga on the way too its going to be rad. Looking forward to getting my name on the board. Be a part of history.
For me personally, the missing ingredient is definitely the Extra Label OST...one of my favorite Cave OSTs of all time.
Oh man I know! I love that ost so much, I d be happy to buy it as dlc if they released it
your enthusiasm while talking about the boss fights and patterns makes me smile, and yep when I used to play this game I HATED the turtle but looking back on it: it is a pretty memorable and badass boss that doesn't mess around despite being so early into the game
Oh I'm glad that section connected with you. I wanted to sort of give a taste of what digging into the boss fights of the game feels like, so I'm glad you could relate. I think if players understand that part of the fun and appeal of the game/genre is how evil the boss fights are, then they'll get less discouraged when the turtle obliterates you for hours ha.
Been waiting for this lol, about time Daioujou get's the M2 treatment for real.
Me too! Been waiting all year for this one.
On switch, save slots are per mode 😊
My favorite shmup you got on my radar.
I was waiting for this video before grabbing it for ps4.
Praise be to M2.
Not been playing much of anything in 2024 but this was my most awaited release (in years, to be honest!). Superb review, accessible enough for newcomers but lots of lightbulb insights which only come with deep knowledge and love. I've only ever played the 360 port (and a few hours at Arcade Club in Bury) so this is such a fucking treat. Futari next, please, M2!
As a programmer (not a game programmer though) I have some thoughts on possible reasons why M2’s been stingy with savestate slots up until now.
This is all speculation, but I’d assume a savestate has to be basically a RAM dump of the arcade board. There’s a ton of stuff to keep track of there, like player position, position in the stage, rank, every enemy placement, every bullet placement, bomb/hyper stock, etc. On PC emulators where you have a ton of RAM/storage space, this isn’t really a big deal. But the consoles M2 is releasing on are pretty old at this point, and games like DOJ are on some pretty advanced arcade boards. I know M2 are legendary for being perfectionists, so depending on how far into the weeds they’ve gotten with their emulation approach in terms of accuracy, the port itself might be using a lot of the console’s capacity. My first assumption is that there’s some kind of limitation with either RAM capacity or console storage capacity, where maybe each savestate takes up a lot of space on the console’s internal storage and they don’t want it to balloon too much. That could explain why they keep capping it-maybe their savestate optimization on earlier ports meant that 30 was the max that was technically feasible, and now they’ve heard fans and gotten it up to 99. But if they allowed 99 for every mode, they’d have to support like 800 savestate slots, which would be a huge step up from 30 if there was something technically complex about their savestates themselves.
Anyway this is all speculation like I said-it could also just be linked to the bureaucratic/conservative tendency in Japanese companies, plus the JP community’s resistance to emulation. But when you started talking about the caps on save states, something clicked in my engineer brain and I thought of this other explanation.
Anyway great video, thanks for breaking all this down!
Are you a web developer by chance?
You convinced me to try this genre for the first time
They left out the chopper from dodonpachi in doj, so they made ketsui to apologize
Ha yes, what happened is that the chopper got its own spin off game, like Frasier from Cheers XD
After your review I bit the bullet and ordered a copy from play-asia, since there is no announcement about a western release (boo!). Let's hope the super easy mode lets me see at least stage 4 or so lol. But as always a great video with some insight you won't hear from other reviewers.
thank so much for the kind comment! also I do hope we get a western release in the future, I'm tired of using google translate to read the in depth settings ha.
@@TheElectricUnderground I hate to say this but if we do get a North American release it will probably be from Limited Run Games. And it will take 2 years to get to us.. I hope I'm wrong!
Shamefully, I'm ordering the "Eliminate Down" Cart form LRG.
Hi Electric Underground!
I had this game mechanic idea.
I heard your comment on the difficulty, especially on Stage 4, I played the IOS port, snd the side to side turrets always murdered me on my runs.
Even on Novice mode 😭😭😭.
So my idea is, *Randomized emeny placement*.
Yes, it sounds hard, but it's a risk-reward feature.
For EVERY stage, there's two enemy placements: "Set Placements" wherein the enemies that are already present are set (midbosses and bigger enemies), and "Unset Placements" wherein extra and randomized enemies are placed.
I'll use the mushihimesama koju as a example.
Like, a stage 4, the flying centipedes, those aquatic bugs are the set placements, everything else (ladybugs, beetles, and some winged insects and maybe spiders) come out at random sections.
I thought about it for a while, and it's pretty good.
It's both challenging to beginners and experts.
My DOJ LE is still unopened since I am simply too occupied with DU3 again. But this got me extra fired up for some post Christmas sessions. Thanks Mark!
Mark MSX, dude, this is an incredible review! There are a few things I want to say.
1) When you showed the examples of everything being a "masterpiece," I was glad to see your RE Remake is PEAK video getting more views than the masterpiece example. Good job on not tooting your own horn.
2) I know it is minor, but I think the # of hits indicator in this game just looks excellent. I don't know why I would care about that, but I do.
3) You give us an example of the distinctive boss music, and I sit there thinking, "How in the world will I ever be able to dodge that?"
4) Cheese graters, I may never think of them in the same way.
5) I stepped away from the computer, but I am keeping your video running to help the algorithm. I can learn something!!
I may need to watch this a 2nd time… You add a lot to the Shmup community and I really dig your conversational style of videos. Thanks again, Mark!!
Electric underground = the real deal 🎉
You know whats still a masterpiece 25+ years later?
Mother fucking Mega Man X4.
I still play that game every once in a while and think about how good at making video games that team who put it together were.
haha oh wow, i thought i loved this game. but u are PASSIONATE af for it, and this remake! that is awesome dude. =D Daioujou is an excellent, EXCELLENT game either way. Peak of the genre, although i do still love Radiant Silvergun...that game was like a whole adventure! but DOJ is INSANE action, superspeedy gameplay, soundtrack be makin u also feel like ur gonna die in real life if u lose in the game LMAO it's great
When you think about it, every port of DOJ setted more or less new standards:
- The PS2 port had some really good features like the No Bullet Mode or the replay system and still holds good against most modern ports.
- The Xbox360 port is an exable how NOT to make a port and get in legal trouble probably
- And now we have that big PS4/Switch port full of extras (even it's not replacing the PS2 port, but at least the is no reason for the Xbox360 port to exist beside being a meme or a bad example).
Guess the statement, that Black Label is more popular then White Label might be not really complete true. At least for Japan, which is the main audience of that port. All extra staff (Arrange, Super Easy, Arcade Challange, ect.) is based on White Label, while Black and Grey Label are just optional extras. That also might be one of the reasons (beside probably development time), why the PS2 port only contains White Label (
And yes, I play vertical shmups horizontal, because imo tate is an overrated gimmic. And yes, I played some shmups in tate (Mushihimesama, DFKBL, Ketsui) and I don't see any benifits.
Wish this came out on PC as well, hopefully will down the line
3 days later edit - For those fellow PC players, the PS2 port is awesome and emulates quite well. If you can accept playing only White Label with few quality of life features, it is still 100% worth playing. I've been blissfully dying over and over and loving it
No M2 port came to PC unfortunately, and this won't be any different. You could try Switch emulation but I don't know about the input lag.
@@mariodoccia6129 That's very unfortunate. The Switch is a terrible console for hardcore shmups in my opinion, and buying a PS4 and adjusting to a new controller just doesn't sound fun to me. Guess I'll dust off the PS2 emulator or something so I can at least try a version of this game out lol
yeah it's a bummer there haven't been any PC releases by the shot triggers team. It might be possible at some point though, if the game sells well enough. They sort of did that for the Darius collection, but that was also a different team at M2.
I ordered this from playasia cause of your review. You have the most intense reviews bro. I tip my hat off to you !❤
The amount of times I've seen people throw the term "masterpiece"over the most mediocre of products imaginable, it's like everyone's standards have gotten so low to the point where anything that isn't a complete dumpster fire is the best thing ever.
>"One Piece live action is a masterpiece"
Lol I didn't even watch that thing and I'm ready to bet money that it's not that good (plus I've read the manga at least up until a certain point so I'll be able to tell immedietly how "faithful" it really is) but hey, it's not as bad as Cowboy Bebop so it totally is a masterpiece am I right?
The pasta ladle on Super Easy mode had me rolling! Sounds perfect for me😂
But point taken!🤣
Nice review, thank you!
Allthough, the biggest question containing 'masterpiece' is Why are you looking at movies on youtube at all of makers who call everything a masterpiece?? XD
Damn, I've been chipping at S arrange for a bit without quite beating it. One day I'll be at your level lol.
Anyway, great review. Love all the content in this release and I've developed appreciation or this title. I kind of wish the challenge/sarai stuff supported the various other arranges because I hate managing my own save states and stuff (part of the reason I really like these releases). Not a big deal though I guess.
Also I thought you'd mention the tour mode... Kind of interesting, not sure what to make of it. Seems to be another attempt to make the game more approachable although I feel like it goes a little too far like, instakilling the bosses for you if you die too many times
Oh yeah the lunar tour mode is sort of interesting but I don't think it quiet works as well as the arcade challenge mode. I think it was another attempt at a progression mode for new players, so I could see it working in that respect
@@TheElectricUnderground My big gripe is, the idea seems to be working up to a higher level, but the levels don't adjust bullet patterns at all (it seems to adjust how much damage you dish out and how many bombs you get mostly). So basically what will happen to me is I'll be at whatever level I'm going to be and then I get to Hibachi which I find basically impossible till I get all the way down to the lowest level where it's just giving you constant, unlimited hypers so basically you could win by just holding down the fire button. So the balancing doesn't really work as a progression thing imo since only the level at the last stage of the tour is counted. It could work with a bit of tweaking though.
Any chance of a steam release do you think? Watching the footage kinda made me want to play Crimzon Clover again in the meantime!
I'm afraid it's not very likely, due to the steam releases being handled by a different team at M2. The Shottrigger team are basically console exclusive (I think because they basically have no budget).
It will not be released on Steam
M2 STG games are console only sadly.
Anyway, thanks for video :) Happy new year as well!
And yeah, for me DOJ is, perhaps, "the pinnacle" bullet hell title in my eyes (even though i might choose another names for other shmup subgenres)
I know that the Switch version isn't the main leaderboard people are going to for scoring for this and what not, but are you ranked on there? At all I couldn't find your name and I was kinda wondering. Also shocked at how uncompetitive the leaderboard is with me getting in the 140's with Exy in Round 2 Black Label, though my experience has been generally that leaderboards for this are very uncompetitive except at the very top, if you 1cc a game you tend to be in the top 30's or better half the time it seems.
I don't feel like I have much to gauge my progress as I struggle in DOJ.
He verbalizes what the little gamer in my head has thought for years. Valuable channel. MAKE A GAME.
A shame to hear Arrange S's rank multiplier doesn't get too crazy. Mushi Futari BL Original mode is my favourite way to play it since the bullet speed gets ridiculous when you start driving that multiplier up.
On the subject of the flow state and the thorned difficulty, I've been wondering myself how it could be applied to other areas of a game's design. I've been playing older stuff a lot more and it's put into perspective how I find the streamlining we see in games nowadays rather off putting and I'd rather play something with some teeth that can stick to its guns and isn't afraid of being abrasive, even if the end results can be decisive. There's too much of an inclination to dismiss games as being "clunky" or "dated" if it doesn't immediately agree with modern audience expectations and it often makes having a productive discussion about older games rather frustrating.
I think I just need something with some rough edges, whether it's some obtuse design decision or memorable difficulty spikes or the experience just comes out flavourless - something that ends up being largely forgotten that I'll put away after beating and won't have any strong feelings about.
Great comment emarrel! Yes I agree and i think a reason for this really streamlined design is that games are very nervous that you will quit (and possibly refund) if they push you too hard too fast. So they are going to make that difficulty curve as shallow as they can to keep you playing on that first playthrough. The fact that they are obliterating the replay value or intensity of the game isn't as important as making sure you get thorugh it that one time. It's just such a radical shift in how games are designed and consumed that I'm sort of surprised it hasn't been a more common critique in game reviews. Try to think about the last time IGN decided a game was too easy ha. I can't think of a single example. But they will give poor wanted dead brutally low scores because it has too challenging checkpoints.
I like how you used a muted background for your camera as well but disappointed that your hands and mouth weren't highlighted to stand out.
About ddp1 st1 being "tutorial"... according to interview with ikd, it was even more calm/relax initially) but replaying battle garegga inspired them to make it a bit more action packed (but not enough?..)
There are very few, count 'em, FEW games I consider genuine masterpieces; Xenogears, Drakengard/Nier, Panzer Dragoon series, Radiant Silvergun, Einhander, and yes even Armored Core VI all count as genuine masterpieces most in the scope and scale of not just gameplay and mechanics, but also in storytelling and world-building too.
DoDonPachi DaiOuJou Re:Incarnation is most definitely a masterpiece as it very much fit the criteria of what I'm looking for in a masterpiece video game.
Great review, shame the game is not a perfect package due to small things you commented like needing better arranges, lacking the 360 music and couple other tiny things, it hurts more when its a 99/100 than if it was a 94 or something.
Will bookmark for 2033 to confirm this review is a masterpiece ;) Thank you for doing a breakdown of modes and laying out the wise path through for beginners.
this game is far from a masterpiece. it has two loops which makes the game unnecessarily long. hibachi sucks cause he can either be free or impossible depending on your hyper setup. the best way to beat him discourages dodging which completely goes against the fundamentals of the game. bosses in general are unfair. byakko is super random and so is seiryu's third pattern. kouryuu's second is practically impossible and his third can randomly wall. hachi's second also likes to create impossible situations. this wouldn't be such a problem if the game didn't tank your score for dying or bombing. stage 4 is also inconsistent to full chain thanks to dogaku dropping RNG shells that you have to laser onto and the rail guns spawning in random locations
Obviously it is a great port and one of the best shmups ever made. I would have liked a hyper-bullet-cancel arrange mode like we got on 360. More remix soundtracks and a proper custom mode. But i'm still very happy with what we got. Escpecially the very easy mode 😅
Yeah I'm a bit bummed we don't have a custom mode like we got in some of the previous ports, but I have noticed m2 seem to be slowly phasing this mode away, I think because it's not very popular. I do really wish we got the Xbox 360 arrange included, one of my fav ost of all time. Who knows, maybe it can appear as DLC? (Though not likely).
I mean, bayo 3 is great but yeah no 10, but what other mecha game is going to be called a masterpiece if not armored core six? It single handedly made me interested in the genre again after writing it off for a very long time
Okay you made me insta buy this game! Looking forward to playing it tonight.
We feel the passsion !! Thank you !
I'm glad ha! I love this game and it's refreshing to talk about such a well made game and such a strong port.
A true masterpiece indeed. Great review
Thank you very much Yasky!
SICK.
DaiOujou is one of my favorite shmups of all time. First stuck out to me based on the art on its CD insert, which tells a story all by itself.
This series in general is awesome. CAVE rules.
Can't wait for my copy to come in. Gonna sink some time into this one. Would love to see all the games in the series get this treatment.
Absolutely! I really hope we get an m2 ddp port. That port would be extremely special not only because all the ddp ports are broken, but also because it could potentially contain the mythical campaign version
On the PS4 leaderboard point. I play Switch and just imported DOJ (and play most of my shmups on it). Does recorded gameplay count for records? For example, if i get a score higher than the 1st place playstation leaderboard score and upload it, am i now the world record holder, or do i have to be playing the same system?
I want to play with my kids so super easy is very very important. They would just give up after 2mins and we’d play something else
Yeah a lot of people mentioned that when I talked about the mode in my reaction to the announcement. I think the release does a better job this time around making a bridge from super easy into the arcade mode, via the arranges.
Totally agree a masterpiece must survive past 10 years, and looking at the game you're reviewing I can definitely see mastery going into crafting this game, what a lovely looking bullet hell game!
What we should consider is the aggressive marketing campaigns and promotions that embellish and hyperbole too much, and also follow some marketing formula. Reason why is because of late stage capitalism, profits made and transactions over relationships and artistry soul, which originated from America and after WW2 pacific war was over Japan adopted that capitalism as an ideology, combined with their conformist bias, also overlaps into their marketing history as well, and while it had it's tradeoffs it enabled them to produce high quality products, especially games. Nowadays especially in the gaming industry because the markets are so saturated by big game companies and so many other games copying each other, following some cookie cutter formula, trying to appeal to wider audiences(also due to democratization a bit) we end up with too much advertising and marketing to hook in gamers, and manipulate them into buying more and min maxing. It's all just excesses of stage orange values and hyper materialism and profits over soul and vision. To sum up all of marketing today, in an over simplified generalization, it's exactly like with the George Lucas and Disney situation, Lucas had Star Wars and it was such a masterpiece of a film for it's time and so well directed and organized, and Disney later, specifically Kathleen Kennedy bought it from Lucas and milked it dry for profits and hyper predatory capitalism, like wolves of Wall street levels of business, just ruins the franchise's quality with rampant late stage capitalism regardless of the preexisting fanbase and the original vision of Star Wars, just tragic. I see a similar situation with these so called 'Remakes' of the older game titles, and some of them are just lacking SOUL and ART, and them just trying to milk the fans and customers for money.
I base my comment from some understanding off of Spiral Dynamics stages of development(by Don Beck), cognitive biases/development, and moral development, personality typing and traits(By Myers Briggs and the big five personality traits modal), 9 stages of ego development(by Jane Loevinger), Architypes(by Carl Jung), different states of being/becoming and consciousness, Integral Theory's other lines of development in life and societal domains(by Ken Wilbur), and ideological beliefs and differences indoctrinated by culture, family upbringing, and the information ecology from mainstream to anti mainstream sources, social media, videos, radio, TV programs, news, books, community, and other points of information gathering that big companies leverage and manufacture consent from consumers and general public to engineer via marketing campaigns to buy more products, which leads into conspicuous consumption of products, goods and services regardless of predatory capitalism leeching and praying off the minds of the customers in our day and age.
Oh yeah the whole "masterpiece" thing has become a marketing angle, not just from the publishers themselves but also from RUclipsrs. Where as a RUclipsr you are gonna have an easier time getting views if you come in from an angle that completely validates people s fondness for a game. So it gets into this crazy situation where games are either train wrecks (when they may be much better than given credit for, like wanted dead) or they are perfect masterpieces despite being lackluster like remake4
Party time!!! Been waiting for this one.
Hell yeah, was up all night editing together this sucker ha.
Great review! I'm so eager to get my hands on DDP DOJ finally.
Have M2 announced if they will, or if they will NOT, eventually release a digital copy on the North American stores, like they eventually did with Ketsui and Battle Garegga?
Not a big deal, but it'd be convenient, so if they have announced plans for an NA release I'd rather wait for that then try importing.
I’ll be grabbing this one on Switch. I know there’s more lag but I don’t have a PS.
The switch version is still really solid! 3 frames is definitely doable, especially if you don't have a ps4 in the first place. One thing I might recommend is if you are playing it docked, try dropping it down to 720p. There's no particular hard evidence on why I recommend this, but I've found that most shmups play a bit smoother at 720p on the switch. Like on the 360 where SDOJ runs better at 480p ha.
Wow that black and white visibility test is great idea
You got me, subscribed within the first minute of watching this 😄
It's funny, you were talking about snowballing and I thought about that exactly about those stupid birds in Fight n Rage haha. That game can get pretty insane speed running and high difficulty.
Also love the point on the rails. It's one of the reasons I love Shiki 2's stage 5 so much. It's great when there's a consistency in a stages enemies and patterns, but just enough RNG variance that you still need to rely on your mechanical reflexes and judgement; unlike something like majority of Touhou where if you put in the same inputs every time in a stage you're getting the same result.
Have you played NeverAwake? It's so good. Not as hardcore but still very cool and highly underrated.
God damnit. I think I’m gonna buy both the switch and ps4. Love this vid and any chance to hear you talk about DOJ
Never played shump's but would love to give this one a try if they release on pc
I wish they were bringing their releases to Steam and/or XSX. I do not have plans whatsoever for switch or ps4/5 in future years, i'm mostly PC player nowodays (also psp/psv/ps2, lol) but i was planning to get XSX mostly because ninja gaiden/panzer dragoon orta (lmao, but u ll understand).
Ive been waiting for this! As i expected, another great video from Mark msx. Shout out to the new shmup content creator, hazylevels... i see you out here #6 on the leaderboards!
This has to be the best M2 port yet. For some reason I can consistently get farther in white label than in black label, probably because I’ve been playing the PS2 port for the last 20 years.
So I'm not the only one who always stays for the end of the video where Mark reads off the names of the Patreon supporters just to hear him say "DJ420 PRAISE IT!!", right ?
I like the call out on MVG. That shmup poser
Ha I just searched through all the masterpiece vids for Remake4, there are so many.