Hey everybody, apologies for the low quality on Viper's camera. The software we use has been acting up a bit but I found a better solution for the future, so this won't happen again. Thank you very much for watching and hope you enjoy the episode!
Amazing content as usual, always click and watch full as soon as I see it! Thank you very much guys! Cool to see Ornlu here as well! Also looking forward to NAC, really excited for that one
Ornlu seemed quite down (totally understandably) about not being invited to the Wololo event. I know it has been discussed previously on the podcast, but I hope future events can give an opportunity to him and others that work so hard but haven't fully "broken through" yet
Please invite Ornlu there! He has a nice view regarding the community and definitely can speak for the smaller content creators. And he has nice in-depth knowledge of the game so either as caster or the analyst after the games would be awesome
ornlu definitely doesnt have worse content, he is just unfortunately not in the algorithm, his streams can be pretty entertaining funny and analytical too.
Sadly I think it's as you guys mentioned the scene is just saturated. People in general have a lot more free time to watch game content and streamers during COVID, when a lot more viewers and content creators joined, but the growth of the scene was never sustainable. Once normal daily life, social and entertainment returned, people don't have that much free time for watching streams, so they are naturally funneled towards the number one or two favorites. Often quality is not the issue, it's just that the cake is already shared and as long as old viewers is content with their no.1 favorite streamer, nothing motivates them to switch to follow other creators. It's not just for AoE community, but many other popular game streamers and smaller content creators are facing this issue too. I will miss community members like Lidakor. He is the kind of relatively small creators that really committed a lot during the COVID period to upscale his content, hoping to find a sustainable position in the scene. He did a lot of things like community awards, highlights and also hosted creative tournament like the 2 pools. 2020/21 was such a great period for AoE2. And I will miss you too Ornlu. Your contents are great. Often times in life success or not is not because you're worse than other people or did not work hard enough. Wish you all the best!
I totally agree with you. I was somebody who watched a lot of streams pre- and during covid. After 2023, almost nothing. Life changes, priorities changes, the priority of your interests change.
RBW was fantastic. It wasn't perfect, but it felt like a proper event and even as a viewer on RUclips I felt part of it. The draft added to the drama, as did the band, the silly costumes, all that stuff. They could've done more, but hell, it was my world cup.
I can see the appeal to some, but I'd rather just have more AOE2 (gameplay) content. I intentionally started watching later so I could skip all the non AOE stuff.
Always a treat to listen to you guys. Regarding Ornlus disappointment, I think tourney organizers without professional experience tend to fall into the trap of lacking marketing. That's what T90 does so well - he builds up hype for his tournaments (see HC or T90 Titans) extremely well. Videos, collaborations, posting everywhere, mentioning it every cast etc. Obviously it's easier for hinanden since ehe already has the platform, but the reason he has the platform is largely due to his talent for branding. That's said I love Ornlu and hope to see him as an analyst or caster in future cups. I loved seeing Jordan during RBW:ER but I think Ornly could have given more interesting insights.
Hopefully, Noble Apartment Cup won't have the same issue that The Grand Melee had, so many AOE2 fans already spent their money on tickets for Red Bull, and another LAN so soon, they may not have more money this year to go to another LAN.
Shout-out to orlu for the hard carry on day one! Great stream, unprepped too. And the community is ever grateful. I was following ornlu on the periphery and watched occasionally but I have been returning a good bit more since I watched his stream. Hope he keeps this up!
There is something Ornlu does in online spaces, and I think it comes from his exceptional knowledge of the game. He really brings out how much knowledge other people have about it - I have never heard TheViper talk in such technical terms at such a high level about the game. I have seen it when OrnLu cocasts as well. It's really impressive. Invite him to more things! He's an asset to the community and you won't have him forever.
The streamer/caster discussion around 35:00 is, like how Ornlu hinted saying its frustrated him before, has been a contention point for a long time, I think. I started watching/listening to AoE streams much more over covid; I would turn a stream on and listen/occasionally watch while working. Like Viper mentioned, I pick(ed) my preferences, tune in most days and then multitask. When Viper and T90 came back to twitch, I myself being primarily a Memb viewer at the time (and occasionally watching Viper/T90 on FB) at the time noticed how his viewership went down noticibly. I now mainly watch Viper and T90. I think it DEFINATELY is due to viewers having their preference of streamer. It is something that is not unique to AoE2 as well. Many other games, there are tons of quality content creators, but people have their preference and the creator that appealed to more people at the right time has/had the most viewers. I think there is an element of luck, beucase I have seen it several times before where a larger streamer that mained a particular game started doing variety or quit, there was always a "viewership vacuum" or sorts, and it the viewers would, in essence, find a new "home" for content of that game. I've noticed that for most games it generally falls into two categories: Viewer Interaction and just being good at the game; some viewers like watching the gameplay and interacting with the streamer, others simply like watching someone who is good at the game. Take League of Legends for example, the pro players in the leagues have a huge chunk of the viewership, and others who are not pro have celebrity-style status, where their name is known (with sometimes over the top content) and that entices people to watch. With AoE, it is interesting, becuase the Viewer Interaction generalzition is, for the most part, replaced by Casting, so the viewership is between Casters and Players. With the limited amount of games/tourneys to cast, people can only watch one caster, so they gravitate towards who's casting style they like the most. For casting, uniqueness and style sets one apart from others. For example, I started watching T90 more becuase of his Low Elo Legends series.
The other recent big Hera - Viper final was great (Warlords I believe?) So, sure, Hera was the favorite here but a closer final or even an upset was possible
Love this podcast. Only one I listen to. When are we gonna get an aoe concert on that piano? Maybe get Survivalist on as guest and duet? I remember the first time I ever clicked on his stream he was playing aoe on piano and I was like... I came for the aoe... stayed for the piano. Power combo! If you think about it Masmorra, without the live draft, we would likely get no side content at all. I loved having a long draft because that was when we got to see all the cool drone shots of the castle and see footage around the castle and get some discussion around potential game plans from the castors as the civs are picked. It's nice to have that down time to soak in the atmosphere and pretend like we are there in person. If all people want is to watch the games asap, why even make it a LAN?
You know what, I did compose a little intro for my old Podcast "Kings & Plebeians"! But I feel like it sounds like the intro jingle for a news broadcast or whatever and not really fitting for this Pod 😅
i think ornlu has a quite similar "problem" as dave: their casting style and behavior is massively different when casting alone and co-casting. i think dave has publicly talked about this and his own perspective on it. both are very knowledgeable about aoe - I would even say more so than other streamers *wink* - and they show their professionalism when co-casting, especially in tournaments... however, their random twitch streams are very community-focused and often just fooling around with chat - and that's totally fine since they obviously enjoy that a lot. however, at least from my very own (and usually quite unique) perspective this is not what I want to watch. ornlu, for example giggles all the time about something in chat... which is super annoying if you don't read chat while watching the stream only on the side while working.
but dave has been growing on his solo casting as well. he regularly has 800-1.7k viewers, and he started from 100-200 (where Ornlu is right now). Even during covid he only had 400-600.
This isn't a definitive answer by any means, but we can track compare the number of active players on Steam during a server maintenance to number of active players on the same day and hour in preceding weeks, and generally based on that we can presume that the SP part of the playerbase is at least 60%, since the player counts usually drop by 40%
Agree with ornlu that people follow the streamer and not the event. and is a pity. The numbers from WDC 2 were not bad. Maybe were bad for Ornlu, but in general i saw good viewers counting all streamers.
I actually think the market nerd buffs Phosphoru strats. Cus when you scout a phosphoru you either need to commit to a FC or full feudal, and going panic FC is now nerfed.
Considering the Stand-Ground Patrol move: After the tournament every pro and caster was of the opinion this move was absolutely valid. It was neither bug using nor glitch abuse nor cheating nor any use of unfair exploit. Even Dave - as mentioned by Nelson a big proponent - said the move is not that great and very, very situational. *The consensus: It's long known and not seen as unrightful practise.* Then WHY does Viper say at 21:20 it will be banned in future tournaments? Even Hera says it should be banned?! Why should it be banned if it's actually a legitimate move?
The market nerf shouldn't really affect the phosphurou strategy because it usually doesn't require buying food. And even then, so much of your eco is on gold that an extra 20 gold required for to afford fletching or whatnot for your ratha is a very small difference. The build order itself to get to castle age and build a castle never involved buying food, just selling 100 stone and wood.
it does affect it a bit. I think alot of top players do enough damage so that they are significantly ahead, then boom up. This stage requires the market.
I'm surprised they didn't nerf the price you can sell stone at - for exactly this reason. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change like this in the future where the gold you get for selling stone is decreased and/or the price for buying stone goes up. This prevents the speed of phosphurou strats and/or would make the castle you build more expensive.
I liked RBW a lot! It was so much fun, despite the technical problems I love how hard the production team worked for the event. And I think TheViper is right, for me I have little time to watch aoe2, so I just watch the streamers that I’ve always followed, is my relaxing time
I'm still suprised that most sences from old games are not able to recruit new gamers because you are to busy with others but long term the missing investment will kill what you love. Back then multi title tournaments like World Cyber Games brought me to games like Quake or Worms Armageddon. It made so fun to watch it, players, casters and their gaming niche looked so intresting as outside I needed to try that. There are so many kids out there playin the same game all the time and are so bored. Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft etc so many possible players that could come here. What are we waiting for that they come by themself? They will never join or find you without you giving them a reason like with an big esports event. Together with the Warcraft guys, Starcraft guys or other mb something for action a shooter you could build something. Internet is destroyed from algorithm, consuming in their safe bubble that gets feed by their own algorithm. Barely new people will find you because of that reason.
Truth is ornlu could've done 100% better job promoting the tournament. After it was announced there was no promo videos talking about it, no videos about it podcast style, nothing. There's a reason why people turn up for the big names and it's not magic. Also adding to this the current big names were not born amazing, they've improved over time and are still improving.
Ornlu needs a niche in streaming and should double down on something that nobody else is doing. Maybe just campaigns. Spirit found his nerdy statistical content on youtube, Memb is the crazy streamer who loves the game a little too much and is always online. T90 is the reason everyone found online streaming content and speaks very well. Dave is the funny, no ego co-caster who everyone likes. Viper is the goat streamer. Hera is the best player, the hustler and a brilliant educator. Daut has crazy strategies and is weirdly funny.
If there was a live quiz, I know I wouldn't be selected, but I'd crush it. My game knowledge is almost encyclopedic at this point. But sadly traveling again this year is just not possible, especially on a 2 month notice... Now if only I could transfer that knowledge into actually playing well 11
About small streamers getting more viewers: I think you have to find your viewers outside the community. Erich Müller is a German example. He does content with more famous streamers outside of AoE and it is extremly entertaining because those other guys are clueless and they learn the game which is what new viewers do with them. They key part is not gameplay but banter. So find a way to get new audience instead of trying to convince current AoEviewers to switch
I loved the WDC2 games, I much prefer team games over 1v1 and like watching the wacky maps, so i was keen to watch some sets where possible. I live in Australia, so I'm a RUclips viewer rather than a live viewer. I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't a single game on Ornlu's YT channel - in the end i just watched the sets from T90 rather than supporting the organizer. For teamgame enjoyers i thought the appeal might have been diminished by having a 1v1 set first too.
I disagree about how difficult playing against the red phosphorus is on a +-1000 elo. I think it is not the execution of the defence which is difficult. it's mostly a different mindset which is needed. Often the fast castles at this elo are slow enough that you can still get up to castle get your own castle up or get 2/3 TC's and make army.
Agreed, the primary way you lose to it at 1k is by not responding at all. If you do anything, towers, castle, wall and boom, make huge army, you can beat them.
RBW was amazing and I really enjoyed it, despite the tech issues. I’ve never seen this brought up though: was no one else turned off by Hera shouting out the player that showed him the standby move? I didn’t think much of the glitch, but him doing that turned the whole thing sour for me, and the vibe from the crowd made it all feel worse and super awkward.
Ressonance22 was in a very bad headspace, lost his job, and lost interest in AoE2, tried something else he cared more about but nobody else and then disappeared. KillerB is something I'd really be interested. I am still in his discord and have him on Steam.
I agree with Ornlu generally. I think the RB tournament wasn't great. I think the players and casters who were there loved the place and the atmosphere there, and that's why they keep saying things like "the best tournament ever". I don't think it was even among the top 3 best RBW tournaments ever, for the viewers. Too short, only 2 good sets. A million casters, commentators, people doing interviews, and missing key big players. I love that RB is involved but for me it wasn't their best work. I hope they do better next time! Even though I don't love EW, I think the RBW5 and 6 were amazing
The timing of the tournament was just too close to Red Bull. I don't think it was because of Ornlu, he's great, more just down to oversaturation / viewer exhaustion. There are so many tournaments nowadays, as a fan it's hard to follow all of them.
Hera always does this. When he encounters something that he believes is unfair he uses it on the big stage to show everyone its unfair so its taken out without much discussion
That's the way to get things to be fixed. Honestly, Hera is a hero we need but don't deserve. He takes all hates for doing this but he is the one who forced devs to fix things. Not by complaining like thousands of us do but by showcasing it in the highest level where it becomes a PR issue and the dev have to fix it.
I would love to see Ornlu with the rest of the usual suspects casting at NAC! I believe he deserves the invite for sure! Great guy and very well spoken.
Imagen Red Bull Wolololo with 9 vil start - would be better immediately. And for me the problem with command move and hera was - clearly hera is investing the most and the best player by far and that he think it needs to be banned but still use it shows very low attitude or akward way to think of competition. If he would believe in himself and his skills he would want to win the final without even thinking using that move. That would have shown class.
Ornlu is a nice guy. But that isn't enough. Viper is a top player, T90 is a top caster, and Dave is genuinely funny. Ornlu is too mediocre... Your typical reddit aoe2 player but with a mic and cam. I watch his videos from time to time when there's something interesting being covered that's been overlooked or haven't yet been talked about by others, but don't really care to stick around and watch beyond that. Everyone agrees he's nice and an alright co-caster, but something's missing. He doesn't stand out enough in anything notable. With that said, I wish the best of luck to him. And if we don't hear as much from him anymore, thanks for your contribution to aoe2 and the community!
@@thire7432 I think all monasteries should cost some stone. It suits the way the building is usually depicted but more importantly is a bit of a nerf for all in monk strats.
There were a few issues with the marble run. The lack of “stakes”, as they say, was a big issue. And there wasn’t much time or incentive to become invested in it. That said, I liked the marble run. I just think it could use a little improvement.
Huge fan of the pod, here, so this comment comes with lots of love... If Ornlu doesnt get invited to NAC, thats a bit... rude , considering the conversation about being a small creator then hyping NAC right in front if him 🤔.
Again, "me" and "GamerLegion" are 2 separate entities, I'm not a spokesperson for GamerLegion or involved with their decision making whatsoever. I decide what gets covered in this Podcast but I DO NOT decide who gets to cast NAC, obviously...
@@MasmorraAoE I know, I know 😊, I respect that completely 🙇. It *is* the GL podcast, tho ^^. At the same time, I also think it was probably inappropriate for him to try and guilt an invitation out of you guys during the conversation. Ornlu has gotten a few chances to hit the big stage, but alas, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there! Plus, the AOE pie is only so big, as well. Keep up the good work, you guys 💪
The live music was disappointing. As a musician (a percussionist specifically), the rhythm was boring and wrong, and the performance individually and as a group was poor, and the arrangement was weak.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. My guess is that this group is relatively local and are also AOE2 enthusiasts, which has a certain charm to it. But aside from the bagpipe player, who was great, the band sounded absolutely horrible, and especially out of tune. That surprised me a bit, as I know Spain has a rich amateur wind band tradition with plenty of amazing bands and players!
Nelson, if you do get the chance to do a live quiz for the audience and you'd like some help then let me know if I should send you an email or something. I have a lot of experience hosting quizzes for 100+ people (even writing a book about it :) ) so there might be some extra factors that you may overlook
Hey everybody, apologies for the low quality on Viper's camera.
The software we use has been acting up a bit but I found a better solution for the future, so this won't happen again.
Thank you very much for watching and hope you enjoy the episode!
may not happen again*
Even Viper's camera is washed up Kappa Kappa Kappa
Love you viper ❤
didnt even notice
Np listening to this mostly as a podcast anyway. :)
I'm over an hour in and I didn't even notice I don't think an apology is necessary but I accept it XD
i like Ornlu, he is a straight shooter and doesn't try sugarcoating things. Content wise he has the best campaign videos
Yeah, love it!
His Civ reviews are also top tier. Like does a civ make sense, looking at it not from whether it's strong is so refreshing.
Amazing content as usual, always click and watch full as soon as I see it! Thank you very much guys! Cool to see Ornlu here as well! Also looking forward to NAC, really excited for that one
Ornlu seemed quite down (totally understandably) about not being invited to the Wololo event. I know it has been discussed previously on the podcast, but I hope future events can give an opportunity to him and others that work so hard but haven't fully "broken through" yet
Please invite Ornlu there! He has a nice view regarding the community and definitely can speak for the smaller content creators. And he has nice in-depth knowledge of the game so either as caster or the analyst after the games would be awesome
ornlu definitely doesnt have worse content, he is just unfortunately not in the algorithm, his streams can be pretty entertaining funny and analytical too.
Please invite Ornlu to Berlin! He is really great, also as a caster!
Sadly I think it's as you guys mentioned the scene is just saturated. People in general have a lot more free time to watch game content and streamers during COVID, when a lot more viewers and content creators joined, but the growth of the scene was never sustainable. Once normal daily life, social and entertainment returned, people don't have that much free time for watching streams, so they are naturally funneled towards the number one or two favorites.
Often quality is not the issue, it's just that the cake is already shared and as long as old viewers is content with their no.1 favorite streamer, nothing motivates them to switch to follow other creators. It's not just for AoE community, but many other popular game streamers and smaller content creators are facing this issue too.
I will miss community members like Lidakor. He is the kind of relatively small creators that really committed a lot during the COVID period to upscale his content, hoping to find a sustainable position in the scene. He did a lot of things like community awards, highlights and also hosted creative tournament like the 2 pools. 2020/21 was such a great period for AoE2.
And I will miss you too Ornlu. Your contents are great. Often times in life success or not is not because you're worse than other people or did not work hard enough. Wish you all the best!
I totally agree with you. I was somebody who watched a lot of streams pre- and during covid. After 2023, almost nothing. Life changes, priorities changes, the priority of your interests change.
RBW was fantastic. It wasn't perfect, but it felt like a proper event and even as a viewer on RUclips I felt part of it. The draft added to the drama, as did the band, the silly costumes, all that stuff. They could've done more, but hell, it was my world cup.
I can see the appeal to some, but I'd rather just have more AOE2 (gameplay) content. I intentionally started watching later so I could skip all the non AOE stuff.
Always a treat to listen to you guys.
Regarding Ornlus disappointment, I think tourney organizers without professional experience tend to fall into the trap of lacking marketing. That's what T90 does so well - he builds up hype for his tournaments (see HC or T90 Titans) extremely well. Videos, collaborations, posting everywhere, mentioning it every cast etc.
Obviously it's easier for hinanden since ehe already has the platform, but the reason he has the platform is largely due to his talent for branding.
That's said I love Ornlu and hope to see him as an analyst or caster in future cups. I loved seeing Jordan during RBW:ER but I think Ornly could have given more interesting insights.
Hopefully, Noble Apartment Cup won't have the same issue that The Grand Melee had, so many AOE2 fans already spent their money on tickets for Red Bull, and another LAN so soon, they may not have more money this year to go to another LAN.
I hope you invite Ornlu to co cast in NAC
Shout-out to orlu for the hard carry on day one! Great stream, unprepped too. And the community is ever grateful.
I was following ornlu on the periphery and watched occasionally but I have been returning a good bit more since I watched his stream.
Hope he keeps this up!
There is something Ornlu does in online spaces, and I think it comes from his exceptional knowledge of the game. He really brings out how much knowledge other people have about it - I have never heard TheViper talk in such technical terms at such a high level about the game.
I have seen it when OrnLu cocasts as well. It's really impressive.
Invite him to more things! He's an asset to the community and you won't have him forever.
The streamer/caster discussion around 35:00 is, like how Ornlu hinted saying its frustrated him before, has been a contention point for a long time, I think. I started watching/listening to AoE streams much more over covid; I would turn a stream on and listen/occasionally watch while working. Like Viper mentioned, I pick(ed) my preferences, tune in most days and then multitask. When Viper and T90 came back to twitch, I myself being primarily a Memb viewer at the time (and occasionally watching Viper/T90 on FB) at the time noticed how his viewership went down noticibly. I now mainly watch Viper and T90.
I think it DEFINATELY is due to viewers having their preference of streamer. It is something that is not unique to AoE2 as well. Many other games, there are tons of quality content creators, but people have their preference and the creator that appealed to more people at the right time has/had the most viewers. I think there is an element of luck, beucase I have seen it several times before where a larger streamer that mained a particular game started doing variety or quit, there was always a "viewership vacuum" or sorts, and it the viewers would, in essence, find a new "home" for content of that game. I've noticed that for most games it generally falls into two categories: Viewer Interaction and just being good at the game; some viewers like watching the gameplay and interacting with the streamer, others simply like watching someone who is good at the game. Take League of Legends for example, the pro players in the leagues have a huge chunk of the viewership, and others who are not pro have celebrity-style status, where their name is known (with sometimes over the top content) and that entices people to watch.
With AoE, it is interesting, becuase the Viewer Interaction generalzition is, for the most part, replaced by Casting, so the viewership is between Casters and Players. With the limited amount of games/tourneys to cast, people can only watch one caster, so they gravitate towards who's casting style they like the most. For casting, uniqueness and style sets one apart from others. For example, I started watching T90 more becuase of his Low Elo Legends series.
The final for me was Viper v Lierrey, it was amazing! I think deep down we all knew that Hera Viper was gonna be a little one-sided
The other recent big Hera - Viper final was great (Warlords I believe?)
So, sure, Hera was the favorite here but a closer final or even an upset was possible
Love this podcast. Only one I listen to. When are we gonna get an aoe concert on that piano? Maybe get Survivalist on as guest and duet? I remember the first time I ever clicked on his stream he was playing aoe on piano and I was like... I came for the aoe... stayed for the piano. Power combo! If you think about it Masmorra, without the live draft, we would likely get no side content at all. I loved having a long draft because that was when we got to see all the cool drone shots of the castle and see footage around the castle and get some discussion around potential game plans from the castors as the civs are picked. It's nice to have that down time to soak in the atmosphere and pretend like we are there in person. If all people want is to watch the games asap, why even make it a LAN?
The real question is why hasn't Masmorra composed a piano intro that he performs live every time yet?
You know what, I did compose a little intro for my old Podcast "Kings & Plebeians"!
But I feel like it sounds like the intro jingle for a news broadcast or whatever and not really fitting for this Pod 😅
@@MasmorraAoEisn't it the news broadcast in some way? :)
Oooo good point!!
Just do the aoe2 theme on piano :)
@@MasmorraAoE would love to see your piano skills. Great job with the podcast btw.
Dave is light years in front of other casters. He is funny natural and genuine.
i think ornlu has a quite similar "problem" as dave: their casting style and behavior is massively different when casting alone and co-casting. i think dave has publicly talked about this and his own perspective on it. both are very knowledgeable about aoe - I would even say more so than other streamers *wink* - and they show their professionalism when co-casting, especially in tournaments... however, their random twitch streams are very community-focused and often just fooling around with chat - and that's totally fine since they obviously enjoy that a lot. however, at least from my very own (and usually quite unique) perspective this is not what I want to watch. ornlu, for example giggles all the time about something in chat... which is super annoying if you don't read chat while watching the stream only on the side while working.
but dave has been growing on his solo casting as well. he regularly has 800-1.7k viewers, and he started from 100-200 (where Ornlu is right now). Even during covid he only had 400-600.
Favorite AoE2 podcast is back ❤❤
Also the only AoE2 podcast I'm aware of... but no need to mention that 😅
This isn't a definitive answer by any means, but we can track compare the number of active players on Steam during a server maintenance to number of active players on the same day and hour in preceding weeks, and generally based on that we can presume that the SP part of the playerbase is at least 60%, since the player counts usually drop by 40%
Agree with ornlu that people follow the streamer and not the event. and is a pity. The numbers from WDC 2 were not bad. Maybe were bad for Ornlu, but in general i saw good viewers counting all streamers.
I watch other streamers but literally I started playing aoe2 because I saw a t90 video. I had never played before I saw the legend of corner boy
Great podcast, respect to Ornlu
Nice podcast again, thanks! :)
I actually think the market nerd buffs Phosphoru strats. Cus when you scout a phosphoru you either need to commit to a FC or full feudal, and going panic FC is now nerfed.
Yay for more town center
I thought the draft was decent, but like viper said, if they do a "show" draft i wouldn't mind. I thought the tournament felt short though
Great episode as usual, thanks for the up. Such a nice wolfie
best of luck Ornlu
Yesssss my favorite podcast!!!!
Edit - 4:47 Nelson just excited for someone other than himself to have a hot take hahahaha
Considering the Stand-Ground Patrol move:
After the tournament every pro and caster was of the opinion this move was absolutely valid.
It was neither bug using nor glitch abuse nor cheating nor any use of unfair exploit.
Even Dave - as mentioned by Nelson a big proponent - said the move is not that great and very, very situational.
*The consensus: It's long known and not seen as unrightful practise.*
Then WHY does Viper say at 21:20 it will be banned in future tournaments? Even Hera says it should be banned?! Why should it be banned if it's actually a legitimate move?
The market nerf shouldn't really affect the phosphurou strategy because it usually doesn't require buying food. And even then, so much of your eco is on gold that an extra 20 gold required for to afford fletching or whatnot for your ratha is a very small difference. The build order itself to get to castle age and build a castle never involved buying food, just selling 100 stone and wood.
it does affect it a bit. I think alot of top players do enough damage so that they are significantly ahead, then boom up. This stage requires the market.
I'm surprised they didn't nerf the price you can sell stone at - for exactly this reason. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change like this in the future where the gold you get for selling stone is decreased and/or the price for buying stone goes up. This prevents the speed of phosphurou strats and/or would make the castle you build more expensive.
I liked RBW a lot! It was so much fun, despite the technical problems I love how hard the production team worked for the event.
And I think TheViper is right, for me I have little time to watch aoe2, so I just watch the streamers that I’ve always followed, is my relaxing time
I'm still suprised that most sences from old games are not able to recruit new gamers because you are to busy with others but long term the missing investment will kill what you love. Back then multi title tournaments like World Cyber Games brought me to games like Quake or Worms Armageddon. It made so fun to watch it, players, casters and their gaming niche looked so intresting as outside I needed to try that. There are so many kids out there playin the same game all the time and are so bored. Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft etc so many possible players that could come here. What are we waiting for that they come by themself? They will never join or find you without you giving them a reason like with an big esports event. Together with the Warcraft guys, Starcraft guys or other mb something for action a shooter you could build something. Internet is destroyed from algorithm, consuming in their safe bubble that gets feed by their own algorithm. Barely new people will find you because of that reason.
They always release on a Tuesday or Thursday.
11/14 is the 5th anniversary of DE
the SG patrol trick wasnt used before because the units werent able to stack as well as they do on DE. DE messed up the stacking.
Great podcast !!!!
Truth is ornlu could've done 100% better job promoting the tournament. After it was announced there was no promo videos talking about it, no videos about it podcast style, nothing. There's a reason why people turn up for the big names and it's not magic.
Also adding to this the current big names were not born amazing, they've improved over time and are still improving.
Ornlu needs a niche in streaming and should double down on something that nobody else is doing. Maybe just campaigns.
Spirit found his nerdy statistical content on youtube,
Memb is the crazy streamer who loves the game a little too much and is always online.
T90 is the reason everyone found online streaming content and speaks very well.
Dave is the funny, no ego co-caster who everyone likes.
Viper is the goat streamer.
Hera is the best player, the hustler and a brilliant educator.
Daut has crazy strategies and is weirdly funny.
9:35 with respect to the delay in viewing games: is it not possible for the observer to be in the game lobby before the game starts?
Or one of the players just pause the game at the start until everything is ready
I think that is not possible.
If there was a live quiz, I know I wouldn't be selected, but I'd crush it. My game knowledge is almost encyclopedic at this point. But sadly traveling again this year is just not possible, especially on a 2 month notice...
Now if only I could transfer that knowledge into actually playing well 11
Sorry SOTL but ORNLU is the one who knows this game the most
About small streamers getting more viewers: I think you have to find your viewers outside the community. Erich Müller is a German example. He does content with more famous streamers outside of AoE and it is extremly entertaining because those other guys are clueless and they learn the game which is what new viewers do with them. They key part is not gameplay but banter. So find a way to get new audience instead of trying to convince current AoEviewers to switch
I loved the WDC2 games, I much prefer team games over 1v1 and like watching the wacky maps, so i was keen to watch some sets where possible.
I live in Australia, so I'm a RUclips viewer rather than a live viewer. I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't a single game on Ornlu's YT channel - in the end i just watched the sets from T90 rather than supporting the organizer.
For teamgame enjoyers i thought the appeal might have been diminished by having a 1v1 set first too.
I disagree about how difficult playing against the red phosphorus is on a +-1000 elo. I think it is not the execution of the defence which is difficult. it's mostly a different mindset which is needed. Often the fast castles at this elo are slow enough that you can still get up to castle get your own castle up or get 2/3 TC's and make army.
Agreed, the primary way you lose to it at 1k is by not responding at all. If you do anything, towers, castle, wall and boom, make huge army, you can beat them.
Is that a SNSD poster? The boi is a man of culture.
Yes it is
RBW was amazing and I really enjoyed it, despite the tech issues. I’ve never seen this brought up though: was no one else turned off by Hera shouting out the player that showed him the standby move? I didn’t think much of the glitch, but him doing that turned the whole thing sour for me, and the vibe from the crowd made it all feel worse and super awkward.
Ornlu, I love team game tournaments!
Masmorra, can you find what happenened to content creators like killerB and Ressonance22?
Ressonance22 was in a very bad headspace, lost his job, and lost interest in AoE2, tried something else he cared more about but nobody else and then disappeared.
KillerB is something I'd really be interested. I am still in his discord and have him on Steam.
I agree with Ornlu generally. I think the RB tournament wasn't great. I think the players and casters who were there loved the place and the atmosphere there, and that's why they keep saying things like "the best tournament ever". I don't think it was even among the top 3 best RBW tournaments ever, for the viewers. Too short, only 2 good sets. A million casters, commentators, people doing interviews, and missing key big players.
I love that RB is involved but for me it wasn't their best work. I hope they do better next time! Even though I don't love EW, I think the RBW5 and 6 were amazing
Big ups, Ornlu. Do your stuff and eventually become Potus and lose your college debt. Your country really needs you.
But didnt ornlu think that the greatness of aoe comes from the history that is packed in?
INVITE ORNLU INSTEAD OF MEMB TO NAC!
with the new food prices I just sell some and easy join the watchparty
Google can't find no Barles RUclips channel, what channel is Viper talking about at ~36min?
youtube.com/@barles100?si=couLM3d6Af2V5kyw
just look for "barles aoe2" on yt
56:55 is this the last episode we see the snek in this podcast? D:
Ornlu deserves to be invited for a LAN, hopefully it will be Noble Cup :)
If Hera says it shouldn't be used in the future, why did he use it at all?
Does anyone know how they chose the players that were invited to NAC? Liquipedia doesnt seem to show any information.
All 1st/2nd in S tier this year I believe
The invited players were the only 4 players reaching 1st or 2nd place in S-tier tournaments this year.
The timing of the tournament was just too close to Red Bull. I don't think it was because of Ornlu, he's great, more just down to oversaturation / viewer exhaustion. There are so many tournaments nowadays, as a fan it's hard to follow all of them.
Why's viper's camera feed like 5 fps
We dont really know, wasnt the case while recording. Vipers cam has sometimes issues with the Podcast software we use so might be this.
All energy has used to his quick walls, no more capacity for camera.
@@GLAgeOfEmpires Thanks for the podcast anyways :D Much love
skill issue
Viper is Ai confirmed
Give me some Ornlu in Berlin 👏 👏
Monaspa were borderline op at my rank of 1200
Monaspas are OP
Hera always does this. When he encounters something that he believes is unfair he uses it on the big stage to show everyone its unfair so its taken out without much discussion
That's the way to get things to be fixed. Honestly, Hera is a hero we need but don't deserve. He takes all hates for doing this but he is the one who forced devs to fix things. Not by complaining like thousands of us do but by showcasing it in the highest level where it becomes a PR issue and the dev have to fix it.
Ornlus take on the phosphoru is wrong. Most people doing the phosphoru are not doing it well at a low level.
Here is my monthly request for more Tatoh in the show
i think they should do another DLC that gives multiplayer content we had 2 singleplayer DLCs now
I would love to see Ornlu with the rest of the usual suspects casting at NAC! I believe he deserves the invite for sure! Great guy and very well spoken.
Imagen Red Bull Wolololo with 9 vil start - would be better immediately. And for me the problem with command move and hera was - clearly hera is investing the most and the best player by far and that he think it needs to be banned but still use it shows very low attitude or akward way to think of competition. If he would believe in himself and his skills he would want to win the final without even thinking using that move. That would have shown class.
Ornlu is a nice guy. But that isn't enough.
Viper is a top player, T90 is a top caster, and Dave is genuinely funny.
Ornlu is too mediocre... Your typical reddit aoe2 player but with a mic and cam.
I watch his videos from time to time when there's something interesting being covered that's been overlooked or haven't yet been talked about by others, but don't really care to stick around and watch beyond that.
Everyone agrees he's nice and an alright co-caster, but something's missing. He doesn't stand out enough in anything notable.
With that said, I wish the best of luck to him. And if we don't hear as much from him anymore, thanks for your contribution to aoe2 and the community!
fortified church should cost some stone, would make so much sense, all fortified buildings cost some stone
Hard disagree. There might be a case if the monastery also cost stone. But as it stands they’re just not good enough to warrant the added cost.
@@thire7432 I think all monasteries should cost some stone. It suits the way the building is usually depicted but more importantly is a bit of a nerf for all in monk strats.
We want ornlu to be in NAC
I‘m a simple pack pup: I see Ornlu, i like. Hope he‘ll come to Berlin
disagee about the draft being boring, i really enjoy that, would rather get rid of the marbles, that wasnt entertaining to me
I like the draft too personally but i will skip if I’m low on time watching something back
There were a few issues with the marble run. The lack of “stakes”, as they say, was a big issue. And there wasn’t much time or incentive to become invested in it. That said, I liked the marble run. I just think it could use a little improvement.
Invite Ornlu to NAC!
Who knows man it is so funny how we do not get more viewrs
Huge fan of the pod, here, so this comment comes with lots of love...
If Ornlu doesnt get invited to NAC, thats a bit... rude , considering the conversation about being a small creator then hyping NAC right in front if him 🤔.
Again, "me" and "GamerLegion" are 2 separate entities, I'm not a spokesperson for GamerLegion or involved with their decision making whatsoever.
I decide what gets covered in this Podcast but I DO NOT decide who gets to cast NAC, obviously...
@@MasmorraAoE I know, I know 😊, I respect that completely 🙇. It *is* the GL podcast, tho ^^. At the same time, I also think it was probably inappropriate for him to try and guilt an invitation out of you guys during the conversation.
Ornlu has gotten a few chances to hit the big stage, but alas, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there! Plus, the AOE pie is only so big, as well.
Keep up the good work, you guys 💪
Masmorra is definitely right on the drafting screen time being too long and too boring. Give us nine vill start and longer games
The live music was disappointing. As a musician (a percussionist specifically), the rhythm was boring and wrong, and the performance individually and as a group was poor, and the arrangement was weak.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. My guess is that this group is relatively local and are also AOE2 enthusiasts, which has a certain charm to it. But aside from the bagpipe player, who was great, the band sounded absolutely horrible, and especially out of tune. That surprised me a bit, as I know Spain has a rich amateur wind band tradition with plenty of amazing bands and players!
I can't stand empire wars. And its even worse that Nili got them to remove deathmatch from the main ranked screen to put it in there. :(
Nelson, if you do get the chance to do a live quiz for the audience and you'd like some help then let me know if I should send you an email or something. I have a lot of experience hosting quizzes for 100+ people (even writing a book about it :) ) so there might be some extra factors that you may overlook
P.S. I was the one who suggested the voice lines and civ themes, so I do have some ideas 😅
@@aarononon Hey Aaron, of course I remember you!
I'll take you up on that, if GL does decide to go ahead with this!