Italy is a nation where refitting is useful. They have no depth charges on their destroyers, need radar on ships and start with some decent 1936 heavy ships which can become really strong with refitting.
Its really helpful on Italy if you go up a trade law as well, because otherwise you get crippled from no materials, but refitting costs nothing in terms of materials
I usaully refit engines on my BB I when playig Italy for role play purpose, i don't care if it is not meta. I like to keep my battle line on the same steady 28 kn :D
@@pierogi_samurai Not to mention that slow capital ships will slow down the rest of a fleet and make it both less combat effective and more vulnerable.
Consider the effect of designers on refitting. If you refit your submarines to the submarine designer with a token upgrade or name change you get -10% sub visibility which is massive for subs.
Subs are quick to refit anyways, and engines give a visibility reduction as well. The only way to make S-boats actually last past the opening days of the war is to refit their engines. Oh, and adding radar to subs is nice too.
@@penzorphallos3199 That's Paradox for you. 😑And it works for tanks and planes too. You just click "Save As New" button and save the exact same design. Now your old fighter is somehow faster and more agile than before. The power of PP magic.
In my last run with the British, actually inegrating all the colonies and dominion, for the first time I was able to built(and put to use) the superheavy battleship, and make it the pride of the fleet of course. I'm feeling so happy about that I tought I'd share it with all of you. On a side note, thanks for this publication!
Do note, if you are refitting ships you got through peace treaties, destroyers for bases or from governments in exile you need to first get the license to produce them and the refit the licened hull. If you don't do it this way the game won't allow you to refit.
You can still change the design, you simply go to the ship in the fleet, click on it, go to ship template, make what ever changes you want to it, and it will instantly convert to that design. Just be aware that this only works with ships that aren't originally yours. (as italy you can instantly convert the ships you capture from yugo/greece) Very overpowered exploit.
@@Dankmaster532 This only "works" by using the naval exp of the country the ship originally belonged to so if they have none/run out, you can't do that. Also, I'm not sure this actually works other than changing the template stats. From my (very limited) testing of this, only the template is changed and if you look at the stats of the actual ship, they stay the same as they were before the change. I only tested this on ships of countries that no longer existed however so it's possible if a country still exists after the peace conference, you can then use their dockyards to actually apply the refits to the ships.
3 step process. a) Choose coastal designer and design ships as you like, execpt one module (something cheap like a radar, sonar or aa) downgrade it to one step older. b) Swap the designer when you have churned wanted amount of ships to designer you would really use, like atlantic designer for example. c) Make a refitted design, swap that downgraded module to newer one and refit the ships This is a way to make building ships cheaper or faster or make more of them in limited time. (It also feels a bit of a cheat to use it like this tho) To make this continuos process, you have couple lines building the old model and couple lines refit those to new models.
If all you're looking for is a fleet to zone superiority and enable landings, you're basically just looking for tonnage. Systems and upgrades aren't necessary unless you're going to actually fight.
Another big refit target is carriers. If you refit your USA carrier to the carrier designer (e.g., just tweak the name or AA), then you get +1 carrier air wings. That is a 16% increase in damage.
@@lerbronk It makes perfect sense. The designer you hire looks over the blueprints of the ship and finds ways to improve the design. There is a base cost for refitting on top of the module changes so this cost covers the changes the designer makes. It doesn't matter whether all you change is just the name of the ship or you create a new design from scratch.
I would also mention that you can use Flexible Contracts to easily swap out naval designers. All you have to do is add/upgrade one component and all the designer bonuses get applied to upgrade. When I play Japan, for 3 experience I can add just an AA gun to a carrier and get added range, +10 deck size and better AA for like 500 production. That actually makes the converted cruisers pretty nasty because they pack 50 fighters (even though they are still slow). I can then turn around and do the coastal defense designer and get -25% production cost on DD's. Only real down side is spending the actual naval points to swap Flexible Contracts to Refit at some point to actually execute the refits for the carriers and cruisers.
The reason stability/dockyard output doesn't improve refitting is that the dockyard output isn't used for refitting or repairing. Those are specific bonuses not aligned to dockyard output. There's a Spirit Of The Navy called Naval Refit Yards which improves those two things (25% refit speed, 15% repair speed).
Granted it's expensive but I refit the starting US battleships with Radar, Better fire control, AA usually, and I put the 1936/1940 engine in them, it makes my strike forces able to travel almost 1.5x faster or so at almost 30kn and it's very nice.
To refit the ships gained from former nations in the peace conference or by annexing them you need to have the licence for the ship from the former owner. So basically you must puppet the losing nation in one province and than revive the license from it, now you can modifie and refit the ship.
It's a really nice way to get a lot of aircraftcarriers by refitting the shitty light/heavy cruisers or older battleships from smaller nations into deck conversion carriers
I've been refitting my starting navy for a long time now, particularly with Germany, UK, Japan, USA, Italy. Most starting ships only have level 1 guns, are missing AA, missing secondary batteries etc. I'll start the process after I research level 2 or 3 fire control. I'll give all my capital ships level 3 fire control(for a small cost of ~500 production cost you're getting +10-15% hit chance, AA damage) and level 2 main guns, ar least 2 AA guns. Light cruisers get level 2 main guns, 2-3 secondary batteries, better AA, and fire control for massive light attack and AA to destroy carrier planes. Its also well worth refitting all your big ships because changing or adding a mod will apply the bonus your Naval Designer gives you. Starting ships do not have any designer bonuses default but you can easily add a Battlefleet designer bonus of +15% heavy attack and armor so its very worth refitting for this bonus. Simply updating your starting ships properly eliminates the need to build newer more expensive ships and it gives you a massive advantage over whatever naval rival you are facing.
the early British carriers can be upgraded with better engines (pick carrier engines) at a reasonable cost, and if you have Harland and Wolff, you get more deck space and range for free...also check the raw material usage for upgrading vs new.
If you refit the old C Class cruisers by filling up all the empty spaces with spotter planes you can create a ship with a surface detection of 60 and a sub detection of 20 it might not be able to kill subs on its own but if you pair it with a few DDs with Depth charges and maybe a light cruiser carrier like Hermes you can kill every sub the enemy ever make with complete impunity and if you add it to a fleet with an admiral with positioning modifiers they will wipe the floor with other fleets. It's crazy but I've beaten the Germans Japanese and Italians this way without losing a single ship and putting all their navies down to less than 10 ships.
One very specific objection! I find refitting the engine to be useless UNLESS you are the US or UK in regards to their old capital lines and 1940 tech. Both nations have focuses to increase refit speed and if you combine that with the spirit of the navy you get like a +40% bonus on top of your tech bonuses. Most of the time i produce screens and carriers until i get BB1940 tech and then upgrade the old lines with new secondary guns, radar and engine 3. Yeah a cost of 6000 is fucking expensive but it´s NOTHING in comparison to brand new ones and you get 10 very flexible battleships that can easily make 30-32kn. And with all the bonuses it can be done in less than a year.
"Deep dive on navy" I prefer surface fleets actually I'm not sure if I missed it but refitting your early heavy ships into carriers is pretty worth in some cases I think. You get carrier plane tech with the airframes now so you'll probably already have it and you can usually get away with 2-3 factories total on carrier planes. Playing on Portugal I got 2 early heavy ships from Spain after taking them just after their civil war ended, I converted those while researching the 1940 carriers and so I had a decent little navy to harass Japan with by the time I was ready to declare war on them to expand Macau.
Refitted Carriers are actually arguably better than most other carriers (up until late game carriers) because they can make use of both Battleship or Carrier engines and for some reason Battleship engines are significantly faster than carrier engines on the same tech level.
You need to have the licence for the ship from the former owner. So basically you must puppet the losing nation in one province and than revive the License from it, now you can modifie and refit the ship.
@@chkoehler8879 what an incredible hassle. I tried that before, but couldn't get the modified ship to be selected. Are there some modules you are not allowed to change?
@thinkppl I know, it's not the easiest solution. For me, most of the time, it is easier to select the very base model in the licensing menu, eg "1936 light cruiser hull" because the AI countrys modifies it's ships in strange ways. And it's not allwys clear there a specific ship original came from. But as far as I'm aware you are allowed to change all modules, but it's much cheaper not to change the original engine or army plate. It's a really nice way to get a lot of aircraftcarriers by refitting the shitty light/heavy cruisers or older battleships from smaller nations into deck conversion carriers
I would also point out the following: 1. Carrier conversions are a cheap way to get more mileage out of shitty ww1 era battleships. Speed matters (for spotting and choosing to force or escape fights), and you'll never get a battleship with a tier 1 engine up to a combat speed worth half a damn. But, that same ship converted to a carrier using that same engine gets you a floating flight deck on the cheap. This also works for poor versions of heavy cruisers; having a couple light carriers supporting convoy escorts, for example, is often way more valuable than having a cruiser too slow to keep up with your combat fleets. 2. Light cruisers can get carrier deck conversions. This is very nice if you are looking to use an otherwise unsuitable hull to balloon your naval strength for invasions, and work decently well with old destroyers for convoy escort. 3. For destroyers, it's worth way more to upgrade them more heavily. The percentage cost increase for main battery and engine upgrades are a percentage of a much smaller whole, meaning that in terms of overall dockyard production you can get key upgrades like changing to dual-purpose armaments and getting fleet-capable engines on a reasonable budget 4. Refitting does not charge the full resource cost of the full ship - only the net difference in resource cosh for the upgrade. This means it tends to be worth going more heavily on extensive refits if you have other places your resources need to go, as while you'll pay the increased production cost, you won't be diverting as much steel from your tanks to your navy. If you refit all your starting fleet and do extensive carrier conversions, you can focus all of your fresh build ships on providing fleet screens and minimize how aggressively your dockyards tax your otherwise resource base.
Its also worth noting some nations have very weirdly equipped starting ships that need refitting badly. Japan has almost no AA guns ont their ships since they don't have the first AA guns researched yet. That's actually a big deal because your main enemy is usually the USA who are going to have a lot of carrier planes, so you definitely want to bolt on some AA guns on your ships. Most naval power start with carriers that do not have the max airstrips on them so you may as well fill them up to max. Italy has many ships that have ZERO armor equipped(their cruisers also lack secondary batteries so many of them have very weak light attack) which if thats the case refitting the armor is dramatically cheaper. Its possible to equip a ship with no armor to level 3 armor for a measly ~600 production cost, well worth it. Destroyers are very fast and easy to refit with level 2 sonar and depth charges which significantly improves their sub killing(I've noticed they go from sinking 1-2 subs per engagement to 4-6). Worth it if you know you're going to get raided.
Hey feedback you should do a video about what ship designs and combinations are actually good at killing ships in singleplayer and MP. I've done some testing and what worked most effectively against the Royal navy as Germany is BCs 2 or more heavy batteries and lvl 2 armour, CAs with 3x lvl 1 heavy batteries and 3 lvl 2 secondary batteries and lvl 3 armour along with stacked light attack armored CLs and pure torp DDs.
As someone who plays Hoi4 and doesn't ignore navy. Refitting is one of the best thing that ever happen. Refitting a Early ass Cruiser to a carrier or refitting 2 Battleships to a more powerful is quite satisfying when it works.
Tbh, even refitting at insane costs becomes viable in late game(for example Japan, who has all of chinese coastline, chinese puppet that controls the rest of Asia and half of USSR with it's coastline too) when construction cost becomes not as significant as resource costs that start to bottleneck you. Conversions, be it ships or tanks, don't need steel or some worse resources. Plus it keeps ship experience.
11:00 actually, refitting engines was done. Specifically, all engines wore out after one or two decades, to the point where regular maintenance wasn't good enough any more. So basically all ships in WW2 were either pretty new, old but upgraded (incl engines!), or on the schedule to be refitted but the war got in the way (HMS Hood).
What I’ve discovered for Germany is the best way to go big is to go down to Pride of Modern Germany in the alt history route. You can rush up to 1944 heavy hull and begin building the best possible Super Battleship (4 turret) with the least necessary refitting (radars/fire control upgrades) by early 1939 and complete them by 1941. Grab the naval designer and use the first 35 XP for the design spirit and grab sonar and floatplane upgrades before chasing down Crusier 3 and Destoryer 3 with the focus bonus. You can start work on the best screens by 1938 and by the time the civil war is over you’ll have the foundations for building a truly epic navy very quickly. For normal Germany rush down to modular construction and spam crusier subs. Use the cruiser bonus for the planes and get depth 3 from destroyers and just keep a local fleet and sub hunters since you should be done before the US can join.
I'd do this occasionally on the UK. I know it's ridiculously easy to ignore the navy as the UK but if you want the massive fleet killing battles and dopamine without the huge research commitments refitting as the UK is brilliant. You can turn the old WW1 battleships into beasts that can solo enemy navies as long as there is a fleet of screens besides then.
Aircraft facilities used to improve your positioning during a battle. If PDX haven't changed this, plane catapults are not entirely worthless on big boats.
I make light cruiser's and destroyer's leading up 1939 and by then I have LVL 3 radar, I upgrade to get good spotting just before the war. This works better for the US and UK, get the costal defence naval designer and spam ships with a 25% discount than change designer and upgrade to radar 3 with the new designer.
Refits are good, you SHOULD refit your initial fleet with ONE thing. Add "Designer" as cheaply as you can. for example adding french designer for raiding fleet to all subs french had at start, with refit dockyards, take like days per sub. You throw ~350 or 600 per, I believe, construction power each, for double firepower on some (ones that have single torpedo), -10% visibility, +10% range +10% spotting. ideally you want your designer to affect as many ships that you have as you can, so I recommend getting the trade interdiction one, and just slap it on everything that is not a capital ship as early and as cheaply as you can spare some pp. I found that is enough to get Italian navy to fold fast.
Feedback please tell paradox to fix editing captured foreign ships. You can't copy and edit their design ATM, you can only edit by requested license designs of ships you gained in peace conferences from your puppets OR somehow using the navy XP of the original nation's whose ships you've stolen. It's a broken convoluted mess
Tripartite Bulgaria is IMO the best Navy Axis Navy Nation. The Varna shipyards give you massive production AND refit buffs, and you can straight up ask away for all Balkan territory which will act as slots for your future dockyards. I was able to easily get out a 4 carrier navy out which bitchslapped the UK and USA fleet to oblivion.
I usually only refit my "main fleet" for RP propouses, cause i dont want to leave it behind, out of it being the, well, pride of my sea power. (and for that matter, i even keep the old ships replacing them only when they are sunk in battle with the new models). Other than that, i find that most of the cases im usually better of just making new ships but idk.
I wish once you design a heavy and light cruiser that once you produce them and go to refit them they stay that class instead of the game trying to refit them the other class.
Does refitting cost resources like steel and aluminium? If not could you make a ship cheapest as possible basicly naked and then refit it with all the cannons and fancy stuff and you will have steel for tanks
A tip to make your refits more effective: upgrade your modules to the same type in the same slot. Dave should have upgraded that catapult instead of placing something else. MAYBE take off the torpedoes on your capital ships and add... Nothing, you add speed.
Nah, for the cost of a Panzershiff one can make a battleship2 with 1 heavy gun, the best armor and it fly at 30knots being invulnerable to everything but torps. What i use refit mostly is (as germany) upgrade the BV MIO with more speed, and upgrade the 2 predreadnoughts to 26ish knots and radar, the subs1 to minersubs, and after i upgrade the other naval MIO to lvl 7 (most the light attack uogrades) i fill every empty or miner slot of the light cruisers with guns, to make them at least 27light attack. Then some 3 of the unarmed but heavilly armored battleship2, 2 carriers2 full of naval bombers and as many destroyers w 2torps and 1depthcharge+sonar as i can... and 9bviously once i research as many subs3 i can produce (usually by 1939 i already have the surface fleet ready, so its mostly subs from then to war end). The only refits worth are the ones only to get the MIO upgrades or empty slots.
About refitting captured fleets: as landlocked hungary I defeated germany and took their fleet. I didn't have much researched in terms of navy but I was able to create variants for the captured ships, so tried to refit them and.... nothing happened. It took the navy XP, but the models were not eligible for refitting. Even after I hit research_all to test it. Bug, or intentional? Dunno but last time I tried I was stuck with outdated crap.
That’s why super heavy battleship is good, you get 1944 firepower and armor (actually slightly better than 1944) in 1936. If you are a major power you have so much steel there’s no way your industry can use all that steel, and it only cost you 5 dockyards to make a super heavy battleship, it cost you so little it basically is a freebie, you get 4 or 5 of these beasts by 1940, no navy can match this.
@@MrNicoJacGame has changed, it used to be carriers rain down naval bombers and kill all the capital ships, now carriers do so little damage to the capital ships, it’s just screens kill screens and repair your capital ships now, no more Battle of Midway IRL where two carrier strike force meet then kill each other’s carriers, armored deck for carriers is not a thing anymore. But battleships deal damage to capital ships, so the new deal is if you have better battleships you get to deal real damage to enemy capital ships. I know it’s not historical but it’s the game now, try it yourself.
@@MrNicoJacland based is even weaker now, refit a few tier 3 AA in your battleships and you are good, they can shred 30+ planes in one strike. Guess PDX realized the “why build a navy when you can build planes” thing.
If anything, keeping your capital ship up to date is probably a very good idea, seeing as permanently losing 5% war support would be pretty damaging long-term.
I LOVE refitting the destroyers of Germany in Great War Redux - it’s reidilous - you can refit “torpedo boats” into full-on destroyers with all the big-ship goodies, if you want. I typically create two variants, one for mines, one for Anti-sub work, and build from there. And NEVER replace engines or engines. In real life you’d almost never replace engines or armor, and that follows in the game with a massive cost.
Overall 1936 naval ships and equipment will carry you through singleplayer and most of multiplayer. The exception is tier 3 subs are extremely powerful compared to tier 1 and 2, they have a very odd power creep curve to them compared to 1 and 2. Screens are probably the only other ships at the 1940 level that are worth it unless you have the Battleship or Carrier Bonus combined with the raw production and waiting power of the United States (for Tier 3 carriers or Battleships in the queue starting in early 39). A 1940 DD or CL is a huge equalizer for hunting down subs and keeping trade routes open or making a 1940 attack oriented fleet CL but really you should have enough 1936 CL's that a 1940 version is probably better used for scouting/antisub due to its speed and module count. Lets look a that middle spirit of the navy real quick and you can see some insane bonuses for some countries that can take advantage of it (USA/UK/Japan for instance). Flexible Contracts is REALLY good for being able to cheaply purchase a naval design company and lock in designs for some ships both capitals and screens and again you mostly only need 1936 equipment with the exception of radar and if you are playing a historical game you are not even refiting yet. Get your ship designs set, maybe get the Pacific Design Company for Capitals/Carriers/Subs and then switch to Escort Company for DD/CL's and lock the designs in. Changes are you won't need to revisit Capitals so leave it on Escort since you will have DD3/CL3's coming later. Now switch to the Naval Refit Yards and start refiting those ships in 38-40 and by then you'll have a lot of older ships or empty hulls to do it. Empty Hulls? Make very very cutdown versions of ships such as a CV2 or BB1 or BB2 with just a single gun on it and then refit it later, with the refit speed you can actually reduce production cost a little bit on these ships. Same with CL2's, Make a CL2 with either a DD1 light gun or a CL2/CA2 medium gun and then refit later when you have the technology gap achieved (1940 radar for instance) and refit away. A DD1 light gun (90 production cost) doesn't have a lot of production cost compared to a CL2 medium gun (350 cost) so a DD1 gun can be ripped off fairly easily in the refit process and you can have your CL2/CA2's waiting for 1940 gun technology or you can keep them in storage and pick and choose if you need more CA capitals or more CL screens.
"...they have a very odd power creep compared to 1 and 2." Subs 3 can easily one-shot convoys. Con boys have 60 HP, and it's easy to get to over 60 torpedo attack with Sub 3 technology. Incidentally, what makes Conrad Helfrich the best submarine admiral in the game is that he can get to over 60 torpedo attack using 1936 technology.
I find myself leaving the starting fleet alone most times. Early ships are so damn slow and are just magnets for damage, and the only two modules that fix that (engine and taking off armor) are prohibitively expensive to refit. Some nations have the 1936 carriers which are pretty fast though, and the occasional 1936 cruiser. These I will happily use and refit, and then put them in a battle group with fast unarmored CLs and CAs, with some destroyers in the mix to carry the torpedos and depth charges. The starting fleet is great for projecting naval supremacy though, so it has some use, even if it's a boring one.
SHIFF Panzer SHIFF You are killing me. I spent tens of thousands of dollars studying german in college, I am dying listening to you murder that word. hehehehehe
More likely, some of them are just bugged and don't work. Stealth17 has done a lot of number crunching videos, and half the game doesn't actually do what it says it should do, lol....
If I'm playing one of the major naval powers I research all the 1936 tech for destroyers and then refit all the destroyers. Cruisers and above I might wait until I have 1940 tech available. It depends on when the naval war really starts. As the USA I will surrender all of the Pacific except Hawaii and then destroy the Japanese navy with my superior ships during the reconquest.
Can't refit captured ships, wish you could though kind of annoying using all your war score to steal some bathtubs that lower your fleets max speed and raise their visibility
A Q on sonar:is it useless to have sonar if you do not have ASW on that very ship, if you got other ASW ships in your TF? Does the game always calculate each ship separately, or does the TF get a detection value?
You can build one directly or you can refit battleships or cruisers For example, you can take british C-class cruisers and refit them to hermes class converted cruisers. Usually takes half the production, as long as you keep the same battleship/cruiser engine and the same engine level, if you try to refit from cruiser 1 engine to cruiser 2 engine or carrier engines it will increase greatly the production cost
The only thing I can see being worth it is the engines if you need the range and speed for the whole fleet. fleet movement and range is limited to the slowest ship and if the ship is the main battleship of the fleet it might be worth it. Granted I usually just keep the older ships in one fleet but depends on who I am playing.
Engines don't do anything about range. Also afaik fleet range is afaik the average of all ships in the fleet, to simulate underway replenishment between them.
I've never bothered with refitting. But I can see how it might be useful for smaller nations with limited manpower or naval production capacity. I would argue that when playing Germany to not waste production time on refitting, your priority should be spitting out as many new ships as possible to prepare for sea-lion. Later game , fill your boots mate, but once you've beaten UK your navy won't come across too many challenges.
it is worth also nothing that refiting is less efficient or more depending on hull size , and while i like the video its unrealistic you would be refiting your fleet "after every module upgreade" , so its better if you wait or you "do mass reserching" and upgreade most modules in bulk , as you wont be updating your fleer or refiting them every 2 years , you might do it twice at most but realisticly speaking mostly once as you have to factor that all that production on refiting could make new ships , and its question if "the refit cost is worth it" radar and sonar are great Other tip is if...you have really outdated navy , lets say lots of old destroyers , what you might want to do is moth ball them into "mine layers" as change their role completly , mines can be powerful tool but they are tricky to do and only during war but there are few things you can exploit , early refits of old destroyer to minelayers as italy and laying mines during war with etiopia , there is also exploit that if Helasi flees and establishes himself in UK war wwont end meaning you will be at war(i dont remember if they rebalanced it as i not played hoi4 that much in past months) but what i kept doing is refit destroyers quickly , and for these 3 years to 1939 you could mine ridicules amount of seas , pretty much all midterrenian , and most seas around uk then you reserch mine damage and look how allies fleet melts both in battles where mines are and from accidents , dont forget to make "mine admiral" too
Absolute no brainer for britain or America. Early game, theres not enough time for new hulls or the tech and industry available to justify it. Being able to ignore things like hulls and armour for a little while frees up research slots for more important business.
I dislike refitting because it's a pain in the ass to change out your builds just to get then refitted and honestly I wish they counted like ships needing repair so you can just have a set amount get changed over when you feel like.
I read this somewhere about HOI4 naval combat. Speed is one of the most important factors in a naval battle. Your fleet will only go as fast as the slowest ship. Because of this, you are absolutely wrong about upgrading engines. Changing old capital ships to a better engine is expensive but it is massively worth it. For the USA, the BB's that you get in the beginning of the game NEED to be updated so they have a speed of 29+ Knots. This plus radar and fire control will usually take on anything the world makes and crush it. This applies to all Navy ships. You cannot shoot what you cannot catch. This is also historically accurate. After Pearl Harbor, The USA upgraded the engines in all the battleships that were being repaired.
Sorry but dismissing almost the entire German fleet is stupid. The type 24 destroyer is a minelayer. For some reason the French AI sends submarines to the Baltic so mines and a refit for ASW with radar comes in handy. The old German dreadnaughts can chew on the Polish navy as it tries to get away and bottle up the Soviets until the planes can kill them. I never refit the dreadnaughts. The pocket battleships and cruisers are priority after the destroyers. It takes longer to research level 2 radar and level 3 AA for the heavy units. The Schanhorst Class will be close to deployment so the old dreadnaughts will be fodder by then.
How on Earth are native English speakers able to read letters in german words that aren't even there?! I don't get it. It Panzerschiff and you read it PanzerschNiff. The same goes fpr the channel Simple History. There was a very informative video about the Einsatzgruppen of the SS. But instead of "Einsatzgruppen" the narrator pronounced it "Einstatzgruppen". I really appreciate any effort to build in german words and I do understand that the pronunciation of my language is difficult for native English speakers. But please, take lessons or try listening to the word first at least. Google translate does a really good job with that. You could also just leave it our or search for translation, if you don't want to pronounce it. But if you want to try, please note that I can live with an accent or with false stressing or intonation. Hearing a word that doesn't even exist is just weird and hurts my ears.
@@stephenfigg9651 Yes, we do that too. But this has nothing to do with the mentioned problem that words are pronounced in a way that doesn't even make sense. No one in Germany would read the word "ship" and pronounce it "shnip".
Refitting doesn’t worth it at all. Either the refitting cost is too high (sometimes higher, than an actual production!), or the changes are way too minor.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Just a note: those are Panzer-Shiffs. A Panzer-Sniff is when one panzer sniffs the rear of another panzer to learn their scent.
Drove me insane.
@@friedrichvonhoffmeister3343 panzer schliff, panzer schniff.. give him time he will get there :D
**sniff sniff**
"Mmm, smells like Diesel"
It's called Schiff, like the English shiv that you use to stab someone in prison.
The Joe Biden of tank warfare.
Italy is a nation where refitting is useful. They have no depth charges on their destroyers, need radar on ships and start with some decent 1936 heavy ships which can become really strong with refitting.
Its really helpful on Italy if you go up a trade law as well, because otherwise you get crippled from no materials, but refitting costs nothing in terms of materials
I usaully refit engines on my BB I when playig Italy for role play purpose, i don't care if it is not meta. I like to keep my battle line on the same steady 28 kn :D
Makes sense. They did incredible refits on the Comte de Cavours historically, maybe they're pointing out a specific Italian strong suit
Also as Japan you can refit your 1936 heavy cruisers and they will pack a punch.
@@pierogi_samurai Not to mention that slow capital ships will slow down the rest of a fleet and make it both less combat effective and more vulnerable.
Consider the effect of designers on refitting. If you refit your submarines to the submarine designer with a token upgrade or name change you get -10% sub visibility which is massive for subs.
Subs are quick to refit anyways, and engines give a visibility reduction as well. The only way to make S-boats actually last past the opening days of the war is to refit their engines. Oh, and adding radar to subs is nice too.
@@0giwan I refit US S-Class into T-Class Eng2 and 2x Torp2. I refit all the others to the Sub2 with the same and it does make a difference early war.
Just a name change gives you the bonus? Lmfao
@@penzorphallos3199 its adding the naval designer, which requires a new design to add
@@penzorphallos3199 That's Paradox for you. 😑And it works for tanks and planes too. You just click "Save As New" button and save the exact same design. Now your old fighter is somehow faster and more agile than before. The power of PP magic.
In my last run with the British, actually inegrating all the colonies and dominion, for the first time I was able to built(and put to use) the superheavy battleship, and make it the pride of the fleet of course. I'm feeling so happy about that I tought I'd share it with all of you. On a side note, thanks for this publication!
Do note, if you are refitting ships you got through peace treaties, destroyers for bases or from governments in exile you need to first get the license to produce them and the refit the licened hull. If you don't do it this way the game won't allow you to refit.
@FeedbackIRL thumbs up this post this is critical ifno
You can still change the design, you simply go to the ship in the fleet, click on it, go to ship template, make what ever changes you want to it, and it will instantly convert to that design. Just be aware that this only works with ships that aren't originally yours. (as italy you can instantly convert the ships you capture from yugo/greece)
Very overpowered exploit.
@@Dankmaster532 This only "works" by using the naval exp of the country the ship originally belonged to so if they have none/run out, you can't do that.
Also, I'm not sure this actually works other than changing the template stats. From my (very limited) testing of this, only the template is changed and if you look at the stats of the actual ship, they stay the same as they were before the change.
I only tested this on ships of countries that no longer existed however so it's possible if a country still exists after the peace conference, you can then use their dockyards to actually apply the refits to the ships.
Thank you for explaining this, it was so frustrating to take foreign ships only to not be able to refit them
3 step process.
a) Choose coastal designer and design ships as you like, execpt one module (something cheap like a radar, sonar or aa) downgrade it to one step older.
b) Swap the designer when you have churned wanted amount of ships to designer you would really use, like atlantic designer for example.
c) Make a refitted design, swap that downgraded module to newer one and refit the ships
This is a way to make building ships cheaper or faster or make more of them in limited time. (It also feels a bit of a cheat to use it like this tho)
To make this continuos process, you have couple lines building the old model and couple lines refit those to new models.
So like tank printing
Fair fair
I still have the feeling that Navy is only in 3 modes... 1) You are dominating 2) you want to do sealion (or similar) 3) you dont bother...
If all you're looking for is a fleet to zone superiority and enable landings, you're basically just looking for tonnage. Systems and upgrades aren't necessary unless you're going to actually fight.
I do find that anti-sub navy is usually the most important other than those, especially if it's in the ocean away from naval bomber range
Another big refit target is carriers. If you refit your USA carrier to the carrier designer (e.g., just tweak the name or AA), then you get +1 carrier air wings. That is a 16% increase in damage.
how tf does that even make ant wmsense?
@@lerbronk It makes perfect sense. The designer you hire looks over the blueprints of the ship and finds ways to improve the design. There is a base cost for refitting on top of the module changes so this cost covers the changes the designer makes.
It doesn't matter whether all you change is just the name of the ship or you create a new design from scratch.
@@lerbronk Improved hangar layouts, I'd guess. Perhaps installation of a side elevator to help saving space.
I would also mention that you can use Flexible Contracts to easily swap out naval designers. All you have to do is add/upgrade one component and all the designer bonuses get applied to upgrade. When I play Japan, for 3 experience I can add just an AA gun to a carrier and get added range, +10 deck size and better AA for like 500 production. That actually makes the converted cruisers pretty nasty because they pack 50 fighters (even though they are still slow). I can then turn around and do the coastal defense designer and get -25% production cost on DD's. Only real down side is spending the actual naval points to swap Flexible Contracts to Refit at some point to actually execute the refits for the carriers and cruisers.
thankfully naval XP is the easiest thing to get
Refitting should receive a buff by using less materials for the upgrade process.
The reason stability/dockyard output doesn't improve refitting is that the dockyard output isn't used for refitting or repairing. Those are specific bonuses not aligned to dockyard output. There's a Spirit Of The Navy called Naval Refit Yards which improves those two things (25% refit speed, 15% repair speed).
Granted it's expensive but I refit the starting US battleships with Radar, Better fire control, AA usually, and I put the 1936/1940 engine in them, it makes my strike forces able to travel almost 1.5x faster or so at almost 30kn and it's very nice.
To refit the ships gained from former nations in the peace conference or by annexing them you need to have the licence for the ship from the former owner. So basically you must puppet the losing nation in one province and than revive the license from it, now you can modifie and refit the ship.
It's a really nice way to get a lot of aircraftcarriers by refitting the shitty light/heavy cruisers or older battleships from smaller nations into deck conversion carriers
@@chkoehler8879 deck conversions AREN'T treated as deck conversions by the game. You're producing new ships from scratch.
@@TheArklyte It's a kind of refitt in some way
"Panzerschniff" is my new favorite word.
I've been refitting my starting navy for a long time now, particularly with Germany, UK, Japan, USA, Italy. Most starting ships only have level 1 guns, are missing AA, missing secondary batteries etc. I'll start the process after I research level 2 or 3 fire control. I'll give all my capital ships level 3 fire control(for a small cost of ~500 production cost you're getting +10-15% hit chance, AA damage) and level 2 main guns, ar least 2 AA guns. Light cruisers get level 2 main guns, 2-3 secondary batteries, better AA, and fire control for massive light attack and AA to destroy carrier planes.
Its also well worth refitting all your big ships because changing or adding a mod will apply the bonus your Naval Designer gives you. Starting ships do not have any designer bonuses default but you can easily add a Battlefleet designer bonus of +15% heavy attack and armor so its very worth refitting for this bonus.
Simply updating your starting ships properly eliminates the need to build newer more expensive ships and it gives you a massive advantage over whatever naval rival you are facing.
USA gets away with this very easily with nobody bothering it for several years and starting out with a large navy IC base.
the early British carriers can be upgraded with better engines (pick carrier engines) at a reasonable cost, and if you have Harland and Wolff, you get more deck space and range for free...also check the raw material usage for upgrading vs new.
If you refit the old C Class cruisers by filling up all the empty spaces with spotter planes you can create a ship with a surface detection of 60 and a sub detection of 20 it might not be able to kill subs on its own but if you pair it with a few DDs with Depth charges and maybe a light cruiser carrier like Hermes you can kill every sub the enemy ever make with complete impunity and if you add it to a fleet with an admiral with positioning modifiers they will wipe the floor with other fleets. It's crazy but I've beaten the Germans Japanese and Italians this way without losing a single ship and putting all their navies down to less than 10 ships.
that'll work too!@@jonsouth1545
One very specific objection! I find refitting the engine to be useless UNLESS you are the US or UK in regards to their old capital lines and 1940 tech. Both nations have focuses to increase refit speed and if you combine that with the spirit of the navy you get like a +40% bonus on top of your tech bonuses. Most of the time i produce screens and carriers until i get BB1940 tech and then upgrade the old lines with new secondary guns, radar and engine 3. Yeah a cost of 6000 is fucking expensive but it´s NOTHING in comparison to brand new ones and you get 10 very flexible battleships that can easily make 30-32kn. And with all the bonuses it can be done in less than a year.
Plus the naval treaty limits your ability to create new capital ships anyway.
"Deep dive on navy"
I prefer surface fleets actually
I'm not sure if I missed it but refitting your early heavy ships into carriers is pretty worth in some cases I think. You get carrier plane tech with the airframes now so you'll probably already have it and you can usually get away with 2-3 factories total on carrier planes. Playing on Portugal I got 2 early heavy ships from Spain after taking them just after their civil war ended, I converted those while researching the 1940 carriers and so I had a decent little navy to harass Japan with by the time I was ready to declare war on them to expand Macau.
Refitted Carriers are actually arguably better than most other carriers (up until late game carriers) because they can make use of both Battleship or Carrier engines and for some reason Battleship engines are significantly faster than carrier engines on the same tech level.
How can you refit confiscated (by conference or annexation) ships?
It will not let you select an updated design for the foreign ships.
You can't. It has been something players have wanted since forever.
You need to have the licence for the ship from the former owner. So basically you must puppet the losing nation in one province and than revive the License from it, now you can modifie and refit the ship.
@@chkoehler8879 what an incredible hassle.
I tried that before, but couldn't get the modified ship to be selected. Are there some modules you are not allowed to change?
@thinkppl I know, it's not the easiest solution. For me, most of the time, it is easier to select the very base model in the licensing menu, eg "1936 light cruiser hull" because the AI countrys modifies it's ships in strange ways. And it's not allwys clear there a specific ship original came from.
But as far as I'm aware you are allowed to change all modules, but it's much cheaper not to change the original engine or army plate.
It's a really nice way to get a lot of aircraftcarriers by refitting the shitty light/heavy cruisers or older battleships from smaller nations into deck conversion carriers
I think it is "Panzerschiff" not "Panzersniff". :)
Although I like Panzersniff better. :)
My favorite ship in the game - love that range of 7500
I would also point out the following:
1. Carrier conversions are a cheap way to get more mileage out of shitty ww1 era battleships. Speed matters (for spotting and choosing to force or escape fights), and you'll never get a battleship with a tier 1 engine up to a combat speed worth half a damn. But, that same ship converted to a carrier using that same engine gets you a floating flight deck on the cheap. This also works for poor versions of heavy cruisers; having a couple light carriers supporting convoy escorts, for example, is often way more valuable than having a cruiser too slow to keep up with your combat fleets.
2. Light cruisers can get carrier deck conversions. This is very nice if you are looking to use an otherwise unsuitable hull to balloon your naval strength for invasions, and work decently well with old destroyers for convoy escort.
3. For destroyers, it's worth way more to upgrade them more heavily. The percentage cost increase for main battery and engine upgrades are a percentage of a much smaller whole, meaning that in terms of overall dockyard production you can get key upgrades like changing to dual-purpose armaments and getting fleet-capable engines on a reasonable budget
4. Refitting does not charge the full resource cost of the full ship - only the net difference in resource cosh for the upgrade. This means it tends to be worth going more heavily on extensive refits if you have other places your resources need to go, as while you'll pay the increased production cost, you won't be diverting as much steel from your tanks to your navy. If you refit all your starting fleet and do extensive carrier conversions, you can focus all of your fresh build ships on providing fleet screens and minimize how aggressively your dockyards tax your otherwise resource base.
Its also worth noting some nations have very weirdly equipped starting ships that need refitting badly. Japan has almost no AA guns ont their ships since they don't have the first AA guns researched yet. That's actually a big deal because your main enemy is usually the USA who are going to have a lot of carrier planes, so you definitely want to bolt on some AA guns on your ships.
Most naval power start with carriers that do not have the max airstrips on them so you may as well fill them up to max. Italy has many ships that have ZERO armor equipped(their cruisers also lack secondary batteries so many of them have very weak light attack) which if thats the case refitting the armor is dramatically cheaper. Its possible to equip a ship with no armor to level 3 armor for a measly ~600 production cost, well worth it.
Destroyers are very fast and easy to refit with level 2 sonar and depth charges which significantly improves their sub killing(I've noticed they go from sinking 1-2 subs per engagement to 4-6). Worth it if you know you're going to get raided.
panzerschniff
Hey feedback you should do a video about what ship designs and combinations are actually good at killing ships in singleplayer and MP. I've done some testing and what worked most effectively against the Royal navy as Germany is BCs 2 or more heavy batteries and lvl 2 armour, CAs with 3x lvl 1 heavy batteries and 3 lvl 2 secondary batteries and lvl 3 armour along with stacked light attack armored CLs and pure torp DDs.
Th is for the videos you make the game much more digestible instead of hours of reading and researching
As someone who plays Hoi4 and doesn't ignore navy. Refitting is one of the best thing that ever happen.
Refitting a Early ass Cruiser to a carrier or refitting 2 Battleships to a more powerful is quite satisfying when it works.
Tbh, even refitting at insane costs becomes viable in late game(for example Japan, who has all of chinese coastline, chinese puppet that controls the rest of Asia and half of USSR with it's coastline too) when construction cost becomes not as significant as resource costs that start to bottleneck you. Conversions, be it ships or tanks, don't need steel or some worse resources. Plus it keeps ship experience.
But by that time you've already won anyways, right?
@@MrNicoJac in singleplayer? You've won the game already when you've started it. In mp? Nope, not even close yet.
11:00 actually, refitting engines was done.
Specifically, all engines wore out after one or two decades, to the point where regular maintenance wasn't good enough any more.
So basically all ships in WW2 were either pretty new, old but upgraded (incl engines!), or on the schedule to be refitted but the war got in the way (HMS Hood).
iirc japan has focus that boost refitting speed.
pagoda mast for the wins
Just like he mistakes Schiff for Sniff, he mistakes production speed for refitting speed
Production speed and refitting speed use the exact same calculation
What I’ve discovered for Germany is the best way to go big is to go down to Pride of Modern Germany in the alt history route. You can rush up to 1944 heavy hull and begin building the best possible Super Battleship (4 turret) with the least necessary refitting (radars/fire control upgrades) by early 1939 and complete them by 1941. Grab the naval designer and use the first 35 XP for the design spirit and grab sonar and floatplane upgrades before chasing down Crusier 3 and Destoryer 3 with the focus bonus. You can start work on the best screens by 1938 and by the time the civil war is over you’ll have the foundations for building a truly epic navy very quickly.
For normal Germany rush down to modular construction and spam crusier subs. Use the cruiser bonus for the planes and get depth 3 from destroyers and just keep a local fleet and sub hunters since you should be done before the US can join.
I'd do this occasionally on the UK. I know it's ridiculously easy to ignore the navy as the UK but if you want the massive fleet killing battles and dopamine without the huge research commitments refitting as the UK is brilliant. You can turn the old WW1 battleships into beasts that can solo enemy navies as long as there is a fleet of screens besides then.
Aircraft facilities used to improve your positioning during a battle. If PDX haven't changed this, plane catapults are not entirely worthless on big boats.
I make light cruiser's and destroyer's leading up 1939 and by then I have LVL 3 radar, I upgrade to get good spotting just before the war.
This works better for the US and UK, get the costal defence naval designer and spam ships with a 25% discount than change designer and upgrade to radar 3 with the new designer.
Refits are good, you SHOULD refit your initial fleet with ONE thing. Add "Designer" as cheaply as you can.
for example adding french designer for raiding fleet to all subs french had at start, with refit dockyards, take like days per sub. You throw ~350 or 600 per, I believe, construction power each, for double firepower on some (ones that have single torpedo), -10% visibility, +10% range +10% spotting.
ideally you want your designer to affect as many ships that you have as you can, so I recommend getting the trade interdiction one, and just slap it on everything that is not a capital ship as early and as cheaply as you can spare some pp. I found that is enough to get Italian navy to fold fast.
Agree with everything he said except the PanzerschNiff.
It’s schiff as in ship.
Feedback please tell paradox to fix editing captured foreign ships.
You can't copy and edit their design ATM, you can only edit by requested license designs of ships you gained in peace conferences from your puppets OR somehow using the navy XP of the original nation's whose ships you've stolen. It's a broken convoluted mess
Can you still make reffiting as the US ridiculously OP because they could get the refit time so low
Tripartite Bulgaria is IMO the best Navy Axis Navy Nation. The Varna shipyards give you massive production AND refit buffs, and you can straight up ask away for all Balkan territory which will act as slots for your future dockyards. I was able to easily get out a 4 carrier navy out which bitchslapped the UK and USA fleet to oblivion.
I usually only refit my "main fleet" for RP propouses, cause i dont want to leave it behind, out of it being the, well, pride of my sea power. (and for that matter, i even keep the old ships replacing them only when they are sunk in battle with the new models). Other than that, i find that most of the cases im usually better of just making new ships but idk.
I wish once you design a heavy and light cruiser that once you produce them and go to refit them they stay that class instead of the game trying to refit them the other class.
Does refitting cost resources like steel and aluminium? If not could you make a ship cheapest as possible basicly naked and then refit it with all the cannons and fancy stuff and you will have steel for tanks
I believe that you pay the resource cost difference, like when converting tanks or planes.
A tip to make your refits more effective: upgrade your modules to the same type in the same slot. Dave should have upgraded that catapult instead of placing something else. MAYBE take off the torpedoes on your capital ships and add... Nothing, you add speed.
Panzers"n"iff LoL
I just hate the navy refitting micro it's such a painful slog
Nah, for the cost of a Panzershiff one can make a battleship2 with 1 heavy gun, the best armor and it fly at 30knots being invulnerable to everything but torps.
What i use refit mostly is (as germany) upgrade the BV MIO with more speed, and upgrade the 2 predreadnoughts to 26ish knots and radar, the subs1 to minersubs, and after i upgrade the other naval MIO to lvl 7 (most the light attack uogrades) i fill every empty or miner slot of the light cruisers with guns, to make them at least 27light attack. Then some 3 of the unarmed but heavilly armored battleship2, 2 carriers2 full of naval bombers and as many destroyers w 2torps and 1depthcharge+sonar as i can... and 9bviously once i research as many subs3 i can produce (usually by 1939 i already have the surface fleet ready, so its mostly subs from then to war end).
The only refits worth are the ones only to get the MIO upgrades or empty slots.
About refitting captured fleets: as landlocked hungary I defeated germany and took their fleet. I didn't have much researched in terms of navy but I was able to create variants for the captured ships, so tried to refit them and.... nothing happened. It took the navy XP, but the models were not eligible for refitting. Even after I hit research_all to test it. Bug, or intentional? Dunno but last time I tried I was stuck with outdated crap.
Can't refit captured ships
Other comments said you need licenses for them.
They also explained how to get them :)
@@Monksy1337 you cannot refit them but you can convert captured carriers and Battleships into CVs but its a bit of a waste
That’s why super heavy battleship is good, you get 1944 firepower and armor (actually slightly better than 1944) in 1936.
If you are a major power you have so much steel there’s no way your industry can use all that steel, and it only cost you 5 dockyards to make a super heavy battleship, it cost you so little it basically is a freebie, you get 4 or 5 of these beasts by 1940, no navy can match this.
100 naval bombers can though, right? 😅
@@MrNicoJacGame has changed, it used to be carriers rain down naval bombers and kill all the capital ships, now carriers do so little damage to the capital ships, it’s just screens kill screens and repair your capital ships now, no more Battle of Midway IRL where two carrier strike force meet then kill each other’s carriers, armored deck for carriers is not a thing anymore. But battleships deal damage to capital ships, so the new deal is if you have better battleships you get to deal real damage to enemy capital ships. I know it’s not historical but it’s the game now, try it yourself.
@@kindasimpson9704
Oh, no I meant I just use land-based naval bombers only.
Those can attack at night too, iirc.
@@MrNicoJacland based is even weaker now, refit a few tier 3 AA in your battleships and you are good, they can shred 30+ planes in one strike. Guess PDX realized the “why build a navy when you can build planes” thing.
So i was the only person who research new moduls and refit my ships to up to date?
You finally understand the importance of building a big navy!
just kidding
If anything, keeping your capital ship up to date is probably a very good idea, seeing as permanently losing 5% war support would be pretty damaging long-term.
I LOVE refitting the destroyers of Germany in Great War Redux - it’s reidilous - you can refit “torpedo boats” into full-on destroyers with all the big-ship goodies, if you want. I typically create two variants, one for mines, one for Anti-sub work, and build from there. And NEVER replace engines or engines. In real life you’d almost never replace engines or armor, and that follows in the game with a massive cost.
well u can give a ship extra armor
...thought I was just being a bit too adhd by refitting ALL of the destroyers in the Royal navy. Well colour me plum.
Take a shot every time feedback gaming says "panzershniff"
Overall 1936 naval ships and equipment will carry you through singleplayer and most of multiplayer. The exception is tier 3 subs are extremely powerful compared to tier 1 and 2, they have a very odd power creep curve to them compared to 1 and 2.
Screens are probably the only other ships at the 1940 level that are worth it unless you have the Battleship or Carrier Bonus combined with the raw production and waiting power of the United States (for Tier 3 carriers or Battleships in the queue starting in early 39). A 1940 DD or CL is a huge equalizer for hunting down subs and keeping trade routes open or making a 1940 attack oriented fleet CL but really you should have enough 1936 CL's that a 1940 version is probably better used for scouting/antisub due to its speed and module count.
Lets look a that middle spirit of the navy real quick and you can see some insane bonuses for some countries that can take advantage of it (USA/UK/Japan for instance). Flexible Contracts is REALLY good for being able to cheaply purchase a naval design company and lock in designs for some ships both capitals and screens and again you mostly only need 1936 equipment with the exception of radar and if you are playing a historical game you are not even refiting yet. Get your ship designs set, maybe get the Pacific Design Company for Capitals/Carriers/Subs and then switch to Escort Company for DD/CL's and lock the designs in. Changes are you won't need to revisit Capitals so leave it on Escort since you will have DD3/CL3's coming later.
Now switch to the Naval Refit Yards and start refiting those ships in 38-40 and by then you'll have a lot of older ships or empty hulls to do it.
Empty Hulls? Make very very cutdown versions of ships such as a CV2 or BB1 or BB2 with just a single gun on it and then refit it later, with the refit speed you can actually reduce production cost a little bit on these ships. Same with CL2's, Make a CL2 with either a DD1 light gun or a CL2/CA2 medium gun and then refit later when you have the technology gap achieved (1940 radar for instance) and refit away. A DD1 light gun (90 production cost) doesn't have a lot of production cost compared to a CL2 medium gun (350 cost) so a DD1 gun can be ripped off fairly easily in the refit process and you can have your CL2/CA2's waiting for 1940 gun technology or you can keep them in storage and pick and choose if you need more CA capitals or more CL screens.
"...they have a very odd power creep compared to 1 and 2."
Subs 3 can easily one-shot convoys. Con boys have 60 HP, and it's easy to get to over 60 torpedo attack with Sub 3 technology.
Incidentally, what makes Conrad Helfrich the best submarine admiral in the game is that he can get to over 60 torpedo attack using 1936 technology.
I find myself leaving the starting fleet alone most times. Early ships are so damn slow and are just magnets for damage, and the only two modules that fix that (engine and taking off armor) are prohibitively expensive to refit. Some nations have the 1936 carriers which are pretty fast though, and the occasional 1936 cruiser. These I will happily use and refit, and then put them in a battle group with fast unarmored CLs and CAs, with some destroyers in the mix to carry the torpedos and depth charges.
The starting fleet is great for projecting naval supremacy though, so it has some use, even if it's a boring one.
"schiff not sniff schiff not sniff schiff not sniff schiff not sniff" -unrelated, a woman requesting a boat instead of smelling me
Whats the deal with Dispersed Industry? Why is it better than Concentrated?
I would do refitting more, but occacionally the new refitted design just disapears.
SHIFF Panzer SHIFF You are killing me. I spent tens of thousands of dollars studying german in college, I am dying listening to you murder that word. hehehehehe
only use for refitting armor is probably if you are minor and dont have manpower for a new ship so you upgrade the existing one
I usually spend the majority of my dockyards refitting like hell. ASW, planes, radars, sonars and guns are awsum.
What about reffiting captured ships? Seems like it is not possible.
I wonder if there is a cap on dockyard output modifiers? Like maybe the max total modifiers is 50 or 60%.
More likely, some of them are just bugged and don't work.
Stealth17 has done a lot of number crunching videos, and half the game doesn't actually do what it says it should do, lol....
All destroyers have 1 depth charge on them, you dont need to put more
"Panzerschniff" so cursed
Cost effective, I got a bingo!
If I'm playing one of the major naval powers I research all the 1936 tech for destroyers and then refit all the destroyers. Cruisers and above I might wait until I have 1940 tech available. It depends on when the naval war really starts. As the USA I will surrender all of the Pacific except Hawaii and then destroy the Japanese navy with my superior ships during the reconquest.
It makes sense that refitting is like this because you're building the whole ship from scratch.
So what about refitting tanks
you missed designer 20% cost reduction makes refitting 20% quicker
It's become a rarer designer that 1
Can't refit captured ships, wish you could though kind of annoying using all your war score to steal some bathtubs that lower your fleets max speed and raise their visibility
A Q on sonar:is it useless to have sonar if you do not have ASW on that very ship, if you got other ASW ships in your TF? Does the game always calculate each ship separately, or does the TF get a detection value?
I never build ships as germany. Only bulding the allready choosen at the beginning of the Game. Game is most of the time over bevor you need ships.
In the Navy were we can sail the 7 seas
In the The Navy were we can fight to be free!!
Yo daveeee, Wheres the every click artillery only
Panzerschniff sounds cute
In the Ship equipment file the text reads # Snowflake LOL
Me looking for the second N in panzerschiff: O.o
Love ya Dave
Say.... is building a "Deck Conversion Carrier" a refit or new construction?
You can build one directly or you can refit battleships or cruisers
For example, you can take british C-class cruisers and refit them to hermes class converted cruisers. Usually takes half the production, as long as you keep the same battleship/cruiser engine and the same engine level, if you try to refit from cruiser 1 engine to cruiser 2 engine or carrier engines it will increase greatly the production cost
It's treated as new construction
its called a pocket battleship
The only thing I can see being worth it is the engines if you need the range and speed for the whole fleet. fleet movement and range is limited to the slowest ship and if the ship is the main battleship of the fleet it might be worth it. Granted I usually just keep the older ships in one fleet but depends on who I am playing.
Engines don't do anything about range. Also afaik fleet range is afaik the average of all ships in the fleet, to simulate underway replenishment between them.
@@magni5648 Well then they updated since I last tested this. With the later engines I could run missions farther from my ports.
This ship is for raiding the black hole in the atlantic it is not a battleship
I've never bothered with refitting. But I can see how it might be useful for smaller nations with limited manpower or naval production capacity.
I would argue that when playing Germany to not waste production time on refitting, your priority should be spitting out as many new ships as possible to prepare for sea-lion.
Later game , fill your boots mate, but once you've beaten UK your navy won't come across too many challenges.
It's starting to become a cheese for me to skip most naval tech and just capture entire fleets for later use.
it is worth also nothing that refiting is less efficient or more depending on hull size , and while i like the video its unrealistic you would be refiting your fleet "after every module upgreade" , so its better if you wait or you "do mass reserching" and upgreade most modules in bulk , as you wont be updating your fleer or refiting them every 2 years , you might do it twice at most but realisticly speaking mostly once
as you have to factor that all that production on refiting could make new ships , and its question if "the refit cost is worth it" radar and sonar are great
Other tip is if...you have really outdated navy , lets say lots of old destroyers , what you might want to do is moth ball them into "mine layers" as change their role completly , mines can be powerful tool but they are tricky to do and only during war
but there are few things you can exploit , early refits of old destroyer to minelayers as italy and laying mines during war with etiopia , there is also exploit that if Helasi flees and establishes himself in UK war wwont end meaning you will be at war(i dont remember if they rebalanced it as i not played hoi4 that much in past months) but what i kept doing is refit destroyers quickly , and for these 3 years to 1939 you could mine ridicules amount of seas , pretty much all midterrenian , and most seas around uk
then you reserch mine damage and look how allies fleet melts both in battles where mines are and from accidents , dont forget to make "mine admiral" too
Absolute no brainer for britain or America. Early game, theres not enough time for new hulls or the tech and industry available to justify it. Being able to ignore things like hulls and armour for a little while frees up research slots for more important business.
Sad that navy is generally irrelevant for winning wars in single player, love playing with it
I dislike refitting because it's a pain in the ass to change out your builds just to get then refitted and honestly I wish they counted like ships needing repair so you can just have a set amount get changed over when you feel like.
"Panzerschniff"
HELLO, good video! 🌟💗
I read this somewhere about HOI4 naval combat. Speed is one of the most important factors in a naval battle. Your fleet will only go as fast as the slowest ship. Because of this, you are absolutely wrong about upgrading engines. Changing old capital ships to a better engine is expensive but it is massively worth it. For the USA, the BB's that you get in the beginning of the game NEED to be updated so they have a speed of 29+ Knots. This plus radar and fire control will usually take on anything the world makes and crush it. This applies to all Navy ships. You cannot shoot what you cannot catch. This is also historically accurate. After Pearl Harbor, The USA upgraded the engines in all the battleships that were being repaired.
You cannot refit the ships when ships came from peace talk reparation from another nation.
why is he saying panzersnif?
Sorry but dismissing almost the entire German fleet is stupid. The type 24 destroyer is a minelayer. For some reason the French AI sends submarines to the Baltic so mines and a refit for ASW with radar comes in handy. The old German dreadnaughts can chew on the Polish navy as it tries to get away and bottle up the Soviets until the planes can kill them. I never refit the dreadnaughts. The pocket battleships and cruisers are priority after the destroyers. It takes longer to research level 2 radar and level 3 AA for the heavy units. The Schanhorst Class will be close to deployment so the old dreadnaughts will be fodder by then.
How on Earth are native English speakers able to read letters in german words that aren't even there?! I don't get it. It Panzerschiff and you read it PanzerschNiff. The same goes fpr the channel Simple History. There was a very informative video about the Einsatzgruppen of the SS. But instead of "Einsatzgruppen" the narrator pronounced it "Einstatzgruppen". I really appreciate any effort to build in german words and I do understand that the pronunciation of my language is difficult for native English speakers.
But please, take lessons or try listening to the word first at least. Google translate does a really good job with that. You could also just leave it our or search for translation, if you don't want to pronounce it. But if you want to try, please note that I can live with an accent or with false stressing or intonation. Hearing a word that doesn't even exist is just weird and hurts my ears.
Native English speakers often distort their own language, adding and subtracting sounds and breaking grammar rules. I'm sure Germans do it too.
@@stephenfigg9651 Yes, we do that too. But this has nothing to do with the mentioned problem that words are pronounced in a way that doesn't even make sense. No one in Germany would read the word "ship" and pronounce it "shnip".
I hate when some narrators in history-related RUclips channels do that. Make some effort ffs.
schniff schniff
Refitting doesn’t worth it at all. Either the refitting cost is too high (sometimes higher, than an actual production!), or the changes are way too minor.
You forgot in the Naval command Spitit there is an option to increase your refit speed by 25% and it only costs about 25 xp
Panzersniff