The Most Expensive Audio Format (in the World) With Huge Limitations and Why I Still Own One (RANT)
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- Reel to Reel Audio Tape Recorders have been around forever but never really became mainstream. There is a good reason for that. I've owned the Technics, TEAC, Pioneer, etc Tape Recorders and am here to tell you about my story.
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Hi Jay, love your vid's!🙂
I always thought R-to-R is specificcally for making your own recordings, and not to have to 'invest' into a very expansive pre-recorded format?
@@gjnbouwmeester5860 hey! Thanks.
As for your question; Not necessarily. Many audiophiles use it for pre recorded format.
@@Jayiyagi what do you think would be considered the most craziest the most coolest the most amazing the Greatest dacs ever!!??
Yeah, whatever, ...now was that a Denafrips Athena preamplifier above your Terminator plus and when's that review going to air? ;-)
I’ll be bringing back my dads old TEAC that he bought in Japan on leave from Vietnam this Thanksgiving. I grew up listening to Bluegrass and Classical tapes on it as a kid. He has his collection as well but I no idea the shape they are in. I really do hope to get it up and running.
Most people had an RtR was because it was a RECORDER. Back in the 70's, RtR was the only high quality way to make a "mix tape", or archive your precious LPs. At the slower speed, you had lots of recording time, so you could make a 3 hour party tape. It wasn't until Chrome tape and Dolby noise reduction became common, that cassettes were hi-fidelity enough. I also have the same Technics deck, and love it, but I keep it really just because it's so COOL!
reel albums are cost prohibitive, but I like buying new reel tape and record my own playlists from FLAC onto tape for fun. R2R is still pretty pricey but I love it.
I had a reel to reel back in the early 80’s. I used it to record certain songs from the UK top 40 on Sunday evening I’d heard during the previous week.
I only had one reel of tape so it became an art to record new songs each week while not wiping the songs you wanted to keep. You didn’t know changes to the order till each song was announced and there was always the risk you’d record over the start of a song you wanted to keep if the new song was longer than the one it replaced. It’s all to easy these days.
To think back in1979 I bought that same Technics RS1500 for about $800.00 US , special ordered from the AF base PX. Now these models go for 5K refurbished. I sold it after returning to the states because it was just eye candy. Same problem then as now, not enough releases to justify keeping it. 50 years later I still have my vinyl 👍. Greg
I'm with you on the tactile thing with reel to reel. I absolutely LOVE mine. Only thing I would add to your observation is the fact that you can make a nice long mixtapes for parties, get togethers and just for your own listening pleasure. I even have cassettes in my system. I find a lot of great music at yard sales, etc that are very inexpensive. Format is a choice and I like having all the formats available at the tip of my fingers!
All the music you hear is just in your head. If one format sounds better, than it sounds better. Everyone hears things differently . If you can find something you love in all formats you’re probably better for it. And just like smelling food is part of tasting it. Seeing cool gear could affect the listing experience. I love VU meters and watching them as the music plays. Reel-to-Reels are just way cool ❤
I agree & I think format is irrelevant as all recordings are inferior to the real thing, sadly 😭😭
@@frederf69 I don't agree Fred; 35 years ago I close miked my friend Sam strumming away on a 12 string with relatively cheap electret cardioid microphones in my small box-room (bedroom). Since my Tandberg TD20 A was a 7 1/2 ips spec and had three heads, I was able to voice a little reverberance. Sam himself said it sounded better than the live rendition, and I had to agree.
With budget Panasonic 2-way speakes (8" bass, 1" silk dome, sealed enclosure) and a JLH amp, Sam was there at my beck & call - seriously, he was simply there!
Pulp Fiction really influenced the Reel to Reel aesthetic. I’d love to own one purely on looks alone….although for now I’m lucky enough to live in a true HIFI city where I can go to cocktail lounges and restaurants where they play Reel to Reel…it’s fantastic!!!
Uh... it's a tape "recorder"... Back in the 70's, reel-to-reel was the best/coolest way to record your LP's and your friends' LP's... From there, you were free to make great compilations that represented your personal taste in music... Another benefit was you weren't required to get up every 30 minutes or so to flip the album or change the album. Making long-playing tapes for different types of party/dinner music was a wonderful hobby in itself, plus it cut down on the wear-and-tear on your LP's... It was never about buying pre-recorded music that I can remember - It was always about spending the extra money to get high-quality blank tapes and compiling your own music to suit your tastes and your needs, etc... To top it off - reel-to-reel is just so incredibly cool...!!! It makes the scene man...!!!
While I had about 3 dozen reel to reels, was glad to inherit my father's R2R collection. R2R can be phenomenal. Try Nat King Cole's Love is the Thing or RCA's Living Stereo of the Chicago Symphony performing Scheherazade. Just WOW!
Reel to Reel was very popular in late 1970's (why so many used ones for sale) I am 61 and was there and to this day is the best reproduced Music you can hear. Will buy 1 someday but must take 10" Reels and 15 ips. No streaming for me, I can get a better sound with Pioneer TX 9500 MKII and a commercial free FM Station.
Well summarized, it's just a different experience that you enjoy. I dont have a tape deck anymore but in the good old days the dream tapedeck models came from Nakamichi or a Revox. The best analogy would be having a classic car or motorcycle; it wont be the fastest or most reliable or most economical compared to modern stuff and you have to invest to keep it well maintained but when it all works, it puts more smiles on your face and any modern equivalent. More smiles per mile is what you are talking about.
Like the debate about interconnects, some people swear expensive cables make a difference some people scream "snake oil". There is a difference between the sound of analog and digital. I totally agree with you on your interpretation of what a Reel to Reel gives you above and beyond digital. I'm currently using a near mint Pioneer RT-909 and the Otari MX5050Blll on my radar.
Yeah I loved looks of RT-909, before I somehow ended up with bunch of Technics 1500s. I was visiting someone in Czech Republic and I instantly recognized his RT-909 across the room, and he was shocked, he never met anyone in his life who would have any idea what it was. It was quite a rare machine, and in Czech Republic i bet was not more than maybe 3.
I was living in Japan from 1999 to 2004. We also had a reel to reel player in my house for a while when I was a kid. When I was in Japan mini disc was huge. I had an MD player that I used a lot. There was a smoothness and warmth to the sound of MDs, even when recorded from a CD that reminded me of that reel to reel I heard when I was a kid. I wouldn't say it was better, but it was nice to listen to sometimes.
Absolutely agree. I use my reel to reel's to make mix tapes from vinyl & digital. They always come out sounding better. Almost mind blowingly better in most cases. Can they be a pain in the ass & expensive to use? Absolutely! High end blank analog tape is ridiculously expensive to purchase, but the payback in the end is a wonderful thing to experience.
I wished my dad never got rid of his TEAC reel to reel. At the time cassettes were more convenient. Yes there is sound that reel to reel decks produce. It is a sound that is hard to describe to those who have never been fortunate to hear this type of media. Imperfect, yes. Expensive, definitely. Yet I can still see my dad’s face when he sat down and listened to music on his reel to reel ……. Blissful
Yeah, imagine I have 3 of these, top of the line auto reverse Technics RS-1700, and RS-1506 and RS-1500 (1/2 track and 1/4 track). I use it with DBX noise reduction module (I think I saw you had Tascam which sometimes had DBX built in). Another format which produced flawless audio recordings approaching CD quality (without digital issues) was Sony HiFi Betamax (still have that too but didnt use it in years). On older LPs you often hear hiss of reel to reel mastering tape, and also echo (which was caused by mastering tape which didnt have coating over metal oxide surface for best quality, and signal sort of copied itself over next layer of tape). Yet somehow listening to analog tape or LPs has something to it which makes it more musical and exciting despite of its flaws.
I’ve got a Tandberg and absolutely love it! I inherited it from my father and got his classical and jazz tapes some of them live recording’s as well. The sound is superb!
You nailed it Jay!!! In the 80s I owned an akai reel to reel. & I loved it for the same reasons you describe. The rituals. Easy on the ears. Is it perfect... No. But is it cool. 😎 you bet it is!!!
I have 3 open reel decks and love them all. The price of blank tapes has gotten a bit steep, but they can be erased and resused. A high quality bulk eraser is indespensable. Keep the tape deck Jay. You'll regret it down the line if you move on from it.
I agree 100% on analogue nature of film and audio tracks feels soothing and organic. Movies made up until we started going 100% digital look and sound so nice. We should go back to analogue back again at least for music.
Why not go back to horse and buggy and rubbing sticks to make fire? Nothing more organic than that.
I have been thinking about getting a RR lately, have you tried recording from a streaming service? I recall in the 70’s it was very common for people to make their own tapes from Vinyl or off the radio. I would love to hear your feedback on this, keep up the good work!
Got an Otari MX 5050 several years ago off Audiogon. It came with a Tape Project Robert Cray “False Accusations” tape. The first time I played it through my modest system (Maggie 1.7’s) I thought I had gone up to at least Maggie 20.7’s with JL subs. There was just so much more information coming through from the tape, and it was more organic, to borrow a phrase. Yes, the tapes are expensive and I’ve only been able to afford three more from Acoustic Sounds, but they outdo the same recordings on CD by a mile. No strain on the peaks, and just full midrange and monster bass. Even my old Ampex reel tapes at 7.5 ips sound better than some CD’s of the same recordings. When I really want to hear my system at its best I grab one of the 1/2 track 15 ips tapes and realize it can’t get much better than this on my budget.
Hey, I do really like your candor about your ownership of tapes.
I recorded a Billy Joel Concert "Live" from the Bottom Line Club in NYC (over WNEW FM) ... the Open Reel set @ 7 1/2 IPS was a SONY TC-651. An Auto Reverse version of TC - 850 series e.g.equivalent to a Tascam. The End result was spectacular. A decent amount of Dynamic Range. And I'll always remember Joel's banter on Stage, that ends with aJoke about "rock stars & bananas" ! Guess You had to be "there".
Cool looking deck. My older brother had a Tandberg. Some tapes were even quad. He had a quad eight track in his car.
It's folks holding on to nostalgia and then the cool factor. I was stationed in Japan in the early 80's and had this Technics unit as well as a Pioneer, and an Akai, I don't remember the model. They all sounded great but I don't need that ritual stuff, I just want to listen to the music and enjoy it at the best quality to my ears. I'm a musician and this ritual stuff doesn't make the music sound better or make me feel more connected to it I was in Japan when the first CD titles and players arrived. After getting rid of those reel to reel and vinyl I never looked back. It's all personal taste.
Jay you have not really heard R to R until you route the signal to an outboard tape head preamplifier. The playback electronics from that era were high negative feedback circuits, with inexpensive parts. its akin to rating a vinyl playback system using a 1970s receiver with a built in phono stage.
That’s a fine reel to reel you have there Jay. I’m in the wrong business
organic, spacious etc yep, i get ya 100% there is just that something. i bought early this year an ancient garrard 5-300 turn table and 1976 rotel rx 102 mk2, both under 100 bucks and working perfect, turn table has no noise. i had 3 albums, now 30-40, comparing some 80s 90s cds, night and day.
Really regret selling my Tecknics RS1500-- my biggest audio regret.
I would not recommend getting one as it has little advantage for actual 'recording'. There is one important exception to this. If you record vinyl to tape it has a unique marriage of sound between the two mediums. What makes reel to reel so 'rich' sounding is the 'saturation' process the tape goes through when recording. Distortion sets out very mildly, imperceptable at first but distortion is 3d and 5th harmonic. If you have a musical background then you know (1) the fundamental, (2) third harmonic (3) 5th harmonic-- 1--3--5 a major chord.
I think the analog electronics in RTR and regular tape decks that created these sensation of deeper sound dimensions. You can try feeding your digital dac out thru these 3 head tape unit and use the monitor switch to hear thru your system. The sound is more pleasing. That's is what I have personally experiencing or could be just all in my head.🤣
Did you ever do a review of that MoFi Ultradeck, I was comparing that to the Rega P6 and VPI scout.
Hey Jay, I have a non audio question. What leather jacket is that you are wearing in some of your videos? I have been looking for that style everywhere and I can't seem to find it?
I have a similar issue I have a modern system but keep going back to the old 70s sansui 🤣
This is a hobby that is more about the gear than about the music. What good is the best format if it doesn't have music that moves you?
Hi Jay, what are the 3 reel to reel tapes you own and play?
I have a Revox B77 that hasn’t been used for years on account of the limited amount of music.
Have you tried making your own recordings using streaming as a source? I'm thinking about getting a Pioneer RT-707 and doing just that.
Hey that's illegal
@@KlaweKlapkionly if you are selling them.
It’s like buying a Ferrari but you can only drive it in a Walmart parking lot at peak business hour.
Akai used to make a pretty good R2R
What is really important on a R2R deck is that it needs to be capable of playing half-track at 15 ips. There is none of that four track nonsense in the tapes that you describe.
Since all music be it digital or vinyl originally came from a master tape until about 20 years ago I’d say reel to reel is THE best format, and every album you have pre 2000 would of been recorded from a reel to reel master “tape”
I used the same term to explain to my dad and friend the difference in analog music ... organic. I can explain why but that word came to me.
I think a lot of it has to do with the placebo effect. Sure, music on cd might be bit perfect, but since analog reel to reel is orders of magnitude more expensive than a $10 Sony 5 disk cd player from a thrift store that was made in 2001, it will only appear to sound better than cd, but it won't with the exception of older mono tape recordings that had more "musical information" on them, because it was in mono.
I’d like to make my own tapes with one of these. Any video to recommand about where to start ?
You can make your own reel to reel tapes.
See if you can find a Revox A77 in good condition.
Do you hear a difference between streaming a song vs the same song downloaded/purchased from the same streaming service?
Jay! I'm so confused now, but I think you did that on purpose! Jay's confusing iyagi that he shared with me.....
Ah... Now we know why you are such a *REEL* guy! 😀
Had a Teac X20r for a few years. Won it for selling so many Teac products. I've found dsd from 1/2 tape running at 15ips. Wow.
Anither issue is the machines are all 35 or more years old. They have to be restored or refurbished.
i sir i was wondering about ive seen that you own a solid steel stand are they really solid stable stand
i found that target stand ounce filled with sand plus the speaker on the lower plate basicly act as spring
thank you !
I've had R to Rs before and really found the limitations a real problem for me and as a result I just won't have one again. Even cassettes which are more usable can be a pain so for me it's streaming, CD's & vinyl. These can sound more than good enough. Tape is too much of a pain.
I prefer open reel too. The playback of well recorded digital beats the original for me. I see it as 2020 to 1979 converter
Doesn’t reel to reel degrade with each use? What is the life span of a reel?
Have you tried recording from streaming onto R2R and then playing it?
well you can use tape for digital it doesn't have to be just analogue
if you got a reel-to-reel use it with your DAC, run the dac into it and out back to the amp make sure you're on record and pause with on tape not leader
is that what all the connections on the back of my dac are for? (Accuphase DC-91) Or is Digital Recorder In and Out something else? I get confused by the recorder meaning. Its like cd burning but for digital to reel to reel tapes? Benefits of digital played back on r2r?
@@HailKingCeezer it's just a digital out that's all, it could be connected to a DAT digital analogue tape recorder like super 8.
How about a Nakamichi Cassette deck?
9:08 And yet nothing. For most of the music people listen to, tape is the original source.
As an analogue source, I never understood the preference of vinyl over a good reel to reel set up, price aside.
Sutomu Yamashita was the first artist recorded in digital in 1971 using AD/DA process onto vinyl disc. I have that recording on CD 😁😁 analogue is great, but if I can paraphrase Mike Moffet - analogue is a pain in the ass 🤣🤣
Have you ever heard a wax cylinder? That's real analogue that is 😉😉
I have an Otari and pioneer R2R…use them to record albums.
Yeah, whatever, ...now was that a Denafrips Athena preamplifier above your Terminator plus and when's that review going to air?
I got an Otari MX-55 T-M a few years back from a 2d hand hifi shop in Austin.. I think just for the cool factor because I have only managed to acquire 3 tapes. All from Jonathan H at IPI as the direct copies are just 150+ shipping. This source may not be around too many years as he just did put out an email saying he wants to slow down. Still even 150 for what is often less than 30 minutes of music is much. I would find it difficult to pay the 350 to1, 000 plus that the other "labels"/sources are selling at. Sound--eh--it seems in my system I enjoy vinyl, streaming, and these tapes all about the same. Only the sound of cassette is inferior. I do not do CD or SACD but maybe a spin or two a year, and I watch a you tube concert or music program on the main system on occasion. Long way of saying I am glad I got the machine but it is not a priority for my listening.
reel 2 reel is the best analog sound period. Anything which was originally recorded analog was put on reel 2 reel... anything else after that before digital came from r2r.
It's the most expensive because it's the best dude... Music by nature is analog in nature therefore it should be produced on an analog format. Digital is lifeless for the most part.
That Technics went out of production in 1981.
Agree 100%.
Do uou follow Dave Denyer's channel? Interesting Analogue Productions Ultra Tape and Studer A80 etc content.
Get a good cassette deck and give it a listen!
You can always use one of reel to reel function RECORD xD
so Jay, if Reel to Reel is worth is...then shouldn't DAT tapes be up there too?? Its not analog, but you're dealing with formats that dont have alot of recorder music for them. And DAT prolly has a less expensive buy-in than reel to reel is.
I remember reading that DATs were too good. Akin to laser printers which printed forever without ink for pennies a page.
This question has probably been asked….do you make your own recordings? Mix tape, your favorite piece of music?
Great Japan 🇯🇵 💪🏻💪🏻
I call it weight & treble
For that kind of money you better love the music
Awesome machines but I don't listen to anything that would be on a reel to reel tape.
Xd
Back in the day, while in High School, then University, owned a Teac, 2300 SD and then, simultaneously, a Revox, B 77. Archived albums, so played only twice. Once on a Dual 1228 with AT Shibata 14 S cartridge, then on a Revox B 790, with Ortofon, VMS 20 E super cartridge. Still have the albums and the B 790. The Teac, biased for Scotch 206/207 and Grandmaster 456 Tape. The Studer, biased just for the Ampex Grandmaster, that I used to buy. 1200 feet on 7-inch reels @ 1.5 Mils thick, from Fred Locke Studio in Berlin CT. Tape World in the late 70's sold 1800 feet on 7-inch reels of the Grandmaster @ 1 Mil thickness, for a great price, WITH leader tape, and was through the mail, so no driving South on RT 44 to pick up tape from the Studio, sans Leader tape. I sold off both decks when I enlisted into the Naval Flight Program, post University, and found lugging the decks plus at least 500 lbs of tape, from Billet to Billet, too inconvenient. So never experienced any tape shedding issues.
Bought a Tascam CD recorder, in 2002, the CD RW 700, and use an Audio Note Kit Dac for playback. I prefer R2R Topology and the least compromised, Resistor/Transformer/Resistor Topology for I/V conversion. Use a, 1986, Philips Magnavox CDB 650's digital out to the recorder's, digital in, to burn, in real Time. Couldn't be more pleased with the performance, and the CD's from the MANY Libraries around me, copied, for the cost of blank CD's.
When R/R was the only viable, quality, performer, in its Day, it was definitely worth it. But Today, One can buy a Tascam, 24 Bit, 96 KHz, solid state recorder employing both SD cards and thumb drives as the recording media, for about 1100 bucks. Building a Transcendent Sound, "Slider", pre amp to again, transcribe my albums onto the aforementioned solid-state, NO MOVING PARTS, recorder.
I've observed the cost of NOS tape, and its insane. 385 bucks, for 600 Feet on a 5-inch reel, WITH the technical limitations of the Deck, even the Studer presented, compared to today's technology is absurd. Sorry Jay, R/R, Today, is not, "Cool", its developmentally arrested.
I remember the R-T-R. Expensive, labor intensive, and yes, pretty good sound. But, you needed GOOD equipment to hear that. Especially the SPEAKERS! And secondly the amplification.
For all the Vinyl Jockeys. RTR tape is WHAT those records were MASTERED ON! No vinyl can compare with the ORIGINAL MASTER! Sorry! Yet, there has been a LOT of HISTORY since then. And today, almost ALL recordings, including those that go to vinyl pressings, are mastered DIGITALLY! Sorry, but that's the TRUTH!
WHY? Because it's easier to master, because the dynamic range is greater the noise floor better the reproduction near perfect once mastered, and so on! The only limitation is your gear. What are you playing the CD on, etc. And the talent of the recording engineer and his/her ear.
R-T-Rs are definitely cool. But, you don't really need one unless you REALLY want one! I'm old enough to remember using this format, lol. And, I own a ton of vintage equipment. I love the stuff, the sound. But, I find NO NEED to have a R-T-R in the collection. Why? I would RARELY use it, would have almost no tapes to play on it, etc. What would be the point? Just to say, HEY, look at that cool deck? lol!