So far as we're aware, Chandra and Ajani never really interacted until the Gatewatch days; she was trained on Regatha by the monks of Keral Keep and Mother Luti (aka Jaya Ballard in disguise)
I dunno if this is even a young Chandra, could just be a slight redesign to try to give her a more distinct and consistent look, which is honestly something she's kind of lacked for a while (goggles, red hair, gauntlet are basically the only things that have stuck). It could also just be a sort of anthology-style series, one part of which stars younger Chandra, a retelling of Purifying Fire or something, another part stars Ajani, etc.
@@charcharmunr I'm honestly hoping it's a new character altogether that Ajani is mentoring and acts as the audience surrogate as they navigate the Multiverse
Yeah, I think they did the best they could with the baggage from the first two seasons of Picard. I was hoping Matalas' Star Trek Legacy pitch would have happened, but I felt pretty good about him taking the helm of an MTG show.
i watched only first season and it was so bad that i did not bother with 2 and 3. i prefered to keep my memories of the characters unstained by shity moneygrabs.
Now why would any company want to have highly successful advertisements that people will stare at for 30+ minutes at a time, talk about with their friends and co-workers, praise on the internet in seemingly never ending threads and even binge watch on repeat? Especially advertisements that other media outlets will do advertisements for free of charge, just so they can cash in on the zeitgeist? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The frustrating part is that the MTG fandom ALSO want their Arcane, but will likely fail chasing tropes rather than its own identity. I still don't see how Wizards can make mock Mtg animes as an AD, and miss their consumers drooling over the idea.
I really liked Picard Season 3, I think it was the best season by far and what the show should have been right from the beginning. If you like TNG, I think you should give it a shot :)
@@themoops4006 SNW is actually the worst Trek by quite a lot. It's always absolutely wreaking havoc on canon like making the Vulcan mind meld into a 1980s body swap romcom, or making Gorn language into English morse code using English words. Just an embarrassment but everyone wants to whine about the shows that conform to canon but have white captains being held accountable for screw ups or there's a gay character, then give SNW a pass for actually destroying Trek's legacy because the character development is back to extremist right wing business as usual.
Yeah I still don’t think this is coming out. Having years between announcements, and each one announce a different creative team and different story shows a clear lack of interest from behind the scenes. We’ll see a magic show/movie a decade after the game has lost popularity and they’re looking to reboot the IP. No shot that they’re going to risk a big project on what is the most profitable part of the company.
You say that, but then there's things like Magic 30th and aftermath... So I think Hasbro will absolutely keep pushing Wizards towards anything they can do for more money. After all, TV shows sell toys so if they can make it good enough, they can get the kiddies, or so they think. It's going to most likely suck
@@SwedeRacerDCthey keep pumping out Transformers movies like there's no tomorrow. They came back to D&D adaptations. They made Barbie movie and are planing more G.I. JOE movies. What makes you think they do not want a MtG show or movie?
@@sathrielsatanson666 You're asking the wrong person. Look at the dude who made the original claim. Again, I agree with you that it's not really going to stop them. They might temporarily lose face publicly, but people don't really unify to teach them a real lesson, so it isn't a real risk
but it's Netflix...probably going to be about a girl that struggles cause every white dude underestimates her. maybe Elspeth, but instead of not wanting to be a hero (like in lore), she wants to be a hero but society is like "but you're a girl".
@@jeannaimarre3537 if they ended up being separate short stories, if even one was good, having such a cool piece of standalone magic lore would be a win in my books.
@knightofthenorth926 I sincerely hope you're right, but with Netflix, it can be 50/50. Where I completely agree with you is that, with standalone episodes, they're more likely to at least have one right, and it can be remembered fondly. While with a serie even with a good episode, it'll still likely be trash and remembered as such..
@@dygitalsol7312 Yes, Netflix has been doing better with animation than with live action on average. AND damn, thanks for reminding me I need to see Blue Eye Samurai.
Don't mind a creation of a show that changes the lore or world. As long it's done with reason and some compelling story telling. Swapping people, removing characters or whatever change it is that's done, as long as it's done with purpose and decent intention sure. But arbitrary changes for sake of it with no real thought or reason. Nah.
Adaptations do not have to be faithful, they need to be good. There are plenty adaptations that strayed from the original that are classics (Shining, Starship Troopers). And being faithful does not guarantee quality. As long as one tells compelling story changes are fine.
I don't care at all Magics Lore is not good and never had been. You have the pre-mending lore which is Urza: what if a immortal wizard eugenics practicing fascist was portrait as the protagonist Or post mending The tale of how a well designed game element like Planeswalker cards don't work well for fiction
Hasbro and Netflix announcing the series so early in its development process was just a blatant attempt to appease shareholders and boost stock prices. Remember, this announcement came before some of WotC’s successes in other media, like D&D: Honor Among Thieves and BG3. Wall Street analysts have previously accused Hasbro of “under-exploiting” its IP (laughable for anyone who actually plays Magic and now endures three million set releases a year, but this is how finance suits think). Cue a high budget presentation with a semi-famous (sorry Brandon Routh) actor to appease disgruntled shareholders. But the reality is most shows/movies get stuck in development hell. Just because someone buys a project doesn’t mean that it will even make it to pre-production (nevermind production)-in fact, most projects simply don’t. I’m slightly irked that gaming news outlets are reporting that the Magic show is now “heading into production.” All Netflix and entertainment media outlets like Variety have reported is that there’s a new showrunner attached. That does not mean that pre-production has even started yet; it likely means a new writers room and a new stab at creating a show bible that Netflix and Wizards are willing to greenlight. So, possibly starting from scratch, possibly a fresh pair of eyes to edit what’s been done already (if that’s much of anything at this point). I would not be surprised if eOne, the production company that used to handle all of Hasbro’s forays into film/TV but was laboriously sold off to Lionsgate when Hasbro began desperately searching for parts of its portfolio that it could jettison for cash, was previously involved in some iteration of the show, and it being sold to a different company added to the kerfuffle around the show. Anyway, long rant to say that companies like Hasbro could do better in managing fan expectations and publicly traded companies are all to happy to trade on the news of something that isn’t close to being real yet.
That bit about link rot and the degradation of the internet over time really hit home for me. I've been on the internet since 1995 and I grieve for the loss of that ideal of things always being accessible. I could probably write an essay on the subject at this point, but a comment on a RUclips video seems like the wrong place to do that, so I'll leave it alone for now. 🙂
I disagree a bit on the "Lore doesnt matter" take. Its true that if you want to tell new storys you need to be ready to make some sacrificies and write some parts new. But that only applies to details. Bigger plotpoints and characterarcs/personalities should most definitly stay how they where. If you go against it it will feel disconnected or straight up create an alternate universe (which might be fine but then it should be thought off and be treated as such)
Respecting the lore is respecting your old fans. Otherwise, you get whatever mess Star Wars is right now. You give incentives to your audience to care and remain fans instead of punishing them. Being flexible is fine, I get shudders whenever I read Tolkien fans quoting his works as if they were The Bible.
A magic tv show would be the most prominent display of magic canon. Magic canon is very topsy turvy anyway, why should the show stick to stories which are overwhelmingly mid and often terribly written?
Well, Chandra is still awfully young (especially for almost having kept the abbot position). The visual guide says she's mid-20's and 5 ft 6 in, while Ajani is stated to be mid-40s, 6 ft 3 in. Ajani has the high ground in the picture, so maybe that's why he seems more towering?
I've liked the lore and feel of both Bloomburrow and Duskmourn the worlds feel pretty MTG. Maybe Duskmourn less so with the tech... but they feel like original cool things! Hopefully this is a return to form!
Yep. One of the things I enjoy about franchises spreading to new media is that changes to the lore can create new and interesting surprises for old fans, and I'd rather be surprised by a well-written change than just see the story I already know being presented again in a new medium. It can be a really satisfying form of expectation subversion when you THINK you know what's coming and it turns out to be totally different.
Surely a great choice would be adaptations of key story beats across magic canon across different planes and timelines, with a few random fun side stories too 😅
Have you looked into Manalink 3.0? Unfortunately, updates to the RPG part got scrapped years ago, but it might scratch the nostalgia itch w/ updated cards in the duel portion of the game
As far as lore goes its how its done and perceived motivations behind it. Changes can happen but when the IP is so built those changes are harder. Im a POC, its great to see other POC characters but when those characters are being used to replace established ones it is just a hand me down. I want characters that are actually ours not a black superman for example.
As someone who has read the books and a lot of the web stories. I don't need it to be the same(Some of the web stories go against the lore of the books). As long as it is good and follows most/some of the lore, I'll be fine with it.
As someone who isn't into Warhammer, I'm wondering - did the custodians not have women in their ranks, because no authors had ever thought to include women, or did some authors specifically state "women are not and have never been allowed to be custodians"?
Custodes have always been referred to using typically male centered language until the recent "retcon" or whatever you want to call it. Its not that no author THOUGHT to include them. The process that creates a custode was specifically stated not to work on women for whatever made up sci-fi reasons they made up There was a way to change that, screaming at your customers "THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FEMALE CUSTODES" was not the route you take Its insulting to anyone who cared about the story by trying to gaslight them into believing something always was when it wasnt
@@Dark_Jeff "The process that creates a custode was specifically stated not to work on women for whatever made up sci-fi reasons they made up" No, never, in the entirety of any book, blurb or ANYTHING. Were the modifications made to Custodes said to not work on women. You are thinking of GENE SEED. Space Marines are Stated to NOT BE WOMEN. But custodes are *Hand Crafted*, and are not made the same way.
@@TrueMiz Aron Dembski Bowden, a codex writer, was specifically told by GW not to include women custodes when he wrote one of their former codexes because it wasnt possible....are you arguing with their own writers?
@@Dark_Jeff Uhm... googled it, thats not what Aaron said. He said that GW told him not to, because the *MODELS* Were all male. Let me quote him here: "There was no reason they couldn't be male or female *and as far as things still stand, there is still no lore reason they can't be)." And "There are no female Custodian models, they're all male." Meaning it's YOU who is arguing against the writers. Google is free.
Simply because this video reminded me of it and in the near future there will be more episodes of it, here is the MTG saturday morning cartoon intro rap courtesy of Graham Stark, Loading Ready Run: The Multiverse is in a jam, A diabolical plan of a dragon man! Big Nicky B and his various schemes Are gonna make his evil dreams Come true! What’s up? We‘re the Gatewatch crew! And we‘re here to save this plane for you! From Innistrad to Kamigawa, Gonna beat Nicky B and he‘s gonna be sour! Well I‘m Gideon, don‘t call me Chad And I‘m gonna-
I'm one of those pretty intense lore people, and while it would be kind of sad to just totally ignore the existing storylines, Chandra and Ajani make for some veeeery good interactions. So as long as they are true to how the characters behave, I think I would forgive them for not fitting the canon. Though also, just because Chandra looks small doesn't mean she's young. Ajani is just really freaking big. This could be set at any point with Chandra just having cut her hair.
Just let a japanese studio do it tbh, most of the good netflix anime was done by japanese studios in the first place; Devilman Crybaby, Cyberpunk 2077, PLUTO etc. I don't think Baki really count but you could count that as well. Castlevania was okay season1 but completely dropped the ball in season 2, Dota anime was pretty mediocre, Arcane was alright.
The show could be a great opportunity to rewrite a bunch of the weaker plot points they rushed while writing the lore. Of course, I don't have a lot of hope since some of that awful writing allowed for the status quo of the story we have now. BTW, does anyone really care about Chandra as a character? She works more as a mascot than anything.
Picard season 3 is much improved over season 1 and 2 as far as quality of character writing and plot go, but it's still pretty egregious with the "memberberries" stuff. I would still recommend checking it out.
I trust that you weren't joking when you said "as a fan of old school star trek, should I check out Picard season 3?" but that's totally something someone might say as a joke. Yes, yes you should. I can't 100% confirm that you'll like it, but if you've already watched the first 2 seasons (which barely had anything to do with the older shows) you might as well watch the one season that is essentially a sequel to TNG. Also, imo, regardless of whether you like it or not, I hope it will convince you that something being produced by Terry Matalas isn't something to be worried about. I think the reasons some people don't like his work are usually things like "not as similar to the source material as I expected" and "the vibe just isn't for me" but imo the stories and characters are always great. To me, learning that the MTG show would be produced by him made me stop worrying that it's just going to be some bullshit cash grab with shallow characters and a generic plot. Because those are things I've never seen Terry Matalas do.
How the hell were they going to make a show of the magic the gathering story in the first place? By the time this show was announced MTG's story was already non-existent.
4:00 Terry Matalas did season 3 of Picard, which is actually really amazing... at least according to Red Letter Media (i know, you won't believe me... a random guy in the comment section). So yes! Absolutely check it out! Season 3's script also has several betweenthelines-middlefingers pointed directly at the events of season 2. 😆
I say, release it EVEN IF ITS BAD: even if it bombs, there will be engagement from the fans as to what was good and what was awful, that way in 5+ years when the idea for a show resurfaces, we can make a good show. OR they can just study how ARCANE was made and not waste everyone's time.
100% watch Picard season 3. That is the season Terry Matalas showran. Picard season 3 is basically a love letter to the original Star Trek The Next Generation. Very much worth the watch if you are anyway a fan of Star Trek TNG.
is it almost certainly Chandra on the poster: Yes Is that going to stop me taking the biggest hit of copium in my life to believe it's Nahiri: Absolutely not, the world can never stop me dreaming
Can't backup your opinion on he acolyte. It's one thing to add or modify lore, or to take creative liberties with your art. But to rewrite core parts of it and change some of the pillars that the entire series is built on, while claiming it is canon but that canon doesnt matter is completely different.
Lore is more like a good ingredient to make food as long as movie turn out good. I don't think people will have problem with stick too much to the lore.
i have been playing this game for a while and tbh, I rather they (netflix) would retell the original MTG with Urza lore. that cannon is confusing but it is the structure to everything that is mtg.
Hear me out, Season 1 is going the be a Kaladesh story arc of leading to chandra spark Igniting and her vanishing from Kaladesh. In a post credit scene we will see her years later on the plane of Regatha with Jaya and Ajani in some stupid avengers type set up for a Movie called Magic the Gathering: The Gate Watch set to Air in like 4 years so they can tell a member of the Gate watches backstory per season.
Picard Season 3 felt more like TNG/DS9 Star Trek than any other newer shows with exception of Lower Decks which I just adore. Yes, you shoud give Picard Season 3 a go.
I liked season 3 of Picard, but I jumped in out of context and kinda had to accept not knowing what the hell is going on, and even so, if you like next gen you will get warm fuzzies and a tear well up every now and again.
Picard S3 is a huge improvement but does have its flaws. The nostalgia factor is tugged much harder than the previous seasons in a way that I liked, others didn't. It could be worth it for you, it might not, just go in with low expectations if you do.
I still think mtg would make for a fantastic RPG. Imagine a progression system similar to the path of exile skill tree, where instead of 3 main directions you have 5, all representing a color in magic. Maybe the border between colors represents color pairs, maybe getting something in the blue skill tree affects something in the red skill tree to feel like that color pair. I think the potential depth in that system would resonate with the players if the card game given how deep its interactions can be. But i guess some crappy Diablo knock off is good enough
A budget of couple of million? Maybe, but considering that streamers often spend ten times that per episode on various series, it is quite possible and likely that the budget would have been much higher than a couple of million.
Between all the production troubles and hand-switching, the general low quality of Magic's storytelling, and their bad history when it comes to doing anything other than the actual card game, I would be honestly astounded if it ended up even half decent.
I remember reading one MTG novel (possibly a Mirroden story?) that had the main character almost being defeated then saved at the last minute in like six or seven chapters in a row. (Very boring after the first few times) One can only hope any MTG movie adaptation won't be that one.
I have to confess: I do not watch all your videos because it has been years since I played MtG but you always strike me as a reasonable chap. Your takes on adaptations and internet outrage mob proves that 😊
Everything about that show just sounds like it is in production hell. You never know, I recently watched that new Terminator anime on Netflix that's actually pretty good, but I'm also not very confident. I still don't understand why it's so difficult for them to do anything with the IP, when Dungeons and Dragons gets at least some games every now and then. Like we got a Magic set about Baldurs Gate 3 before a good Magic videogame that's not just a simulator of the cardgame. Say what you will about Games Workshop, but I think them giving their IP to both large and small studios works pretty well. Yeah there are inevitably some stinkers, but there also are a lot of decent to great titles from cheap indie-level games to big AAA productions.
There was a good Magic game in the 90s: it was called Duels of the Planeswalkers: Shandalar. It would be cool if someone wanted to make a remake/reimagining with the new cards.
A whole MINUTE of ads, in a show that originally aired with almost 20 minutes of ads, the horror! lol, seriously though, I'd forgotten about this show being a thing. 5 years is a pretty big gap. And apparently, if it's still a thing, they scrapped all the original plans and production if the dude recorded a couple lines then never heard from them again.
7:41, what a hypocritical take. Didn't you make a 13 minute long video called; "I dont know why they did this?" Almost 12 months ago. Taking care of the lore matters. Why else would you watch something if the story isnt coherent to its own rules its established. Saying the audience is just bigots/neckbeard/misogynist's is low hanging fruit. Now before I get hate. Vince I watch every upload you make and I've been following for almost 3 years, I agree with alot of your takes but sometimes there are opinions like this that are just, biased politically charged BS excuse, to justify companies adjusting stories to grift their audience.
terry matalas is also working on the vision show for disney so i've got a feeling we're not going to here about this iteration of the mtg show for a while (also picard S3 is the only one worth watching)
If the show will actually come to pass it will break cannon in some ways but if it’s a great show most people won’t care and haters are gonna get shut out. The reason why shows like the acolyte was so hated wasn’t because the cannon was broken, it was because it was genuinely in most people opinions trash. Barely anyone showed fallout hate when people realized that the show was genuinely fire. There will always be haters but so if 50000 cards of lore doesn’t get followed to a tee.
They should absolutely do something with the characters that works for a series and do their own thing. I read some of the magic lore, the books from the 90‘s and eaerly 2000 are not dogshit, but lets be real, the story since the planeswalkers are introduced is okay for a cardgame lore, but that one to one adopted as a series is a 6/10 at best, it does absolutely nothing unique or remotely daring or surprising. BUT they have some of the coolest characters designs , concept ideas and god damn environmental design ever made, thanks to the artist. Take that and pair that with some exceptional writing and pls do not make it pg13, thanks.
If it ever happens... People need RIGHT FKN NOW to get used to the ideas that this will likely not follow any recognizable WOTC lore 1 because they've never done a TV show before 2 they have retconned their own material before, so I doubt they'll be religious about sticking to canon.
I place a lot of value on the lore because without it, there's no point. The majority of fan bases are formed around the history, of a series, and if you decide to change that, then you disenfranchise the majority of your fanbase, what's the point? You can make Harry Potter into a jedi because lore doesn't matter, Star Wars could happen At hogwarts inside a room, it doesn't matter. You can make up like any bullshit you wanted to, and then the whole point of your story becomes pointless.
So... Am I the only person who doesn't think that's Chandra... The silhouette and features seem much closer to nahiri and I get the light in her hand... But she's a lithomancer she could do many things that produce light. Anyways just what I feel I see
Scrapping the show because Chad is dead makes sense. Just like The Flash from the Justice League cartoons was Wally instead of Barry, why promote a dead character?
oh vince vince, you do realize that the reason why the lore is a pickup point for fans? because it is COHESIVE. That's why MTG lore was never really a major thing, because wotc and hasbro did not give a fck about fleshing it out, whereas GW put major effort in establishing certain things. Also - mumbling about neckbeards and boys clubs is really old, considering there's a lot of badass women in WH.
It's too early and we know too little to make any meaningful speculation honestly. It could be awesome, it could be hot garbage, it could happen in a year, or we might hear nothing for three years only to find out its been restarted once again or cancelled
WH40K is hilarious since it is full of retcons and has changed drastically since the beginning. Also IIRC i heard that women existed in the custodies at some point. Also something something nothings cannon something something unreliable narrators.
Picard season 3 is Terry Matalas playing with action figures. Fun moments but totally pointless and ultimately dumb as fuck. Season 2 has a stupid pointless plot and doesn't earn an otherwise very sweet ending.
I still don’t think a good magic show exists following the gatewatch at all. Then using gatewatch members in their marketing really doesn’t give me high hopes for the story of the show at all.
So to answer your question. Season 2 is hot garbage. not worth the time to watch. Season 3 is worth the time. It's a bit of a "member berry" show but in a good way? season two was just dull. I don't know how or why we'd have a filler episode in an 8 episode season. And to tie this in with your lore conversation. I think it was Leonard Nemoy himself (and i'm paraphrasing) "The cannon is good to have and sprinkle like seasoning. Use it if and where you can to improve the story but don't be held hostage by it. "
So far as we're aware, Chandra and Ajani never really interacted until the Gatewatch days; she was trained on Regatha by the monks of Keral Keep and Mother Luti (aka Jaya Ballard in disguise)
I dunno if this is even a young Chandra, could just be a slight redesign to try to give her a more distinct and consistent look, which is honestly something she's kind of lacked for a while (goggles, red hair, gauntlet are basically the only things that have stuck). It could also just be a sort of anthology-style series, one part of which stars younger Chandra, a retelling of Purifying Fire or something, another part stars Ajani, etc.
@@charcharmunr I'm honestly hoping it's a new character altogether that Ajani is mentoring and acts as the audience surrogate as they navigate the Multiverse
Smothering Tithe that’s just the Netflix logo
Vince the art from the original Netflix image was art for the card Exquisite Firecraft by chase stone
Oh shit! So it is! It looks so much better with the colour not stripped out. Makes it feel more organic, less plastic.
Since you asked - the 3rd season of Picard wasn't great, but better than the 2nd. I enjoyed it.
I would say season 1 was fine, season 2 was bad, and season 3 was pretty good-- certainly not perfect, but definitely the best season of the three.
@@MrJimberJam For me it would be 1-3-2, but I can see why would you switch it
Yeah, I think they did the best they could with the baggage from the first two seasons of Picard. I was hoping Matalas' Star Trek Legacy pitch would have happened, but I felt pretty good about him taking the helm of an MTG show.
i watched only first season and it was so bad that i did not bother with 2 and 3. i prefered to keep my memories of the characters unstained by shity moneygrabs.
The bar was low going into season 3, but it was far better than seasons 1 and 2
They want their own Arcane so bad
Now why would any company want to have highly successful advertisements that people will stare at for 30+ minutes at a time, talk about with their friends and co-workers, praise on the internet in seemingly never ending threads and even binge watch on repeat? Especially advertisements that other media outlets will do advertisements for free of charge, just so they can cash in on the zeitgeist?
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
@@MrMartinSchou They can want anything, just be less cynically obvious about it
The frustrating part is that the MTG fandom ALSO want their Arcane, but will likely fail chasing tropes rather than its own identity. I still don't see how Wizards can make mock Mtg animes as an AD, and miss their consumers drooling over the idea.
Well yes but this was announced probably back when that was.
Since my friends and I have no connection to LoL we're just huffing copium and pretending Arcane is a show set on Ravnica
I really liked Picard Season 3, I think it was the best season by far and what the show should have been right from the beginning. If you like TNG, I think you should give it a shot :)
it was serviceable after two seasons of absolute legacy-destroying garbage. it was somehow even worse than discovery.
Will second this. Season 3 is more a continuation of TNG than the previous seasons, and way better paced and much more watchable than seasons 1 and 2.
@@themoops4006 SNW is actually the worst Trek by quite a lot. It's always absolutely wreaking havoc on canon like making the Vulcan mind meld into a 1980s body swap romcom, or making Gorn language into English morse code using English words. Just an embarrassment but everyone wants to whine about the shows that conform to canon but have white captains being held accountable for screw ups or there's a gay character, then give SNW a pass for actually destroying Trek's legacy because the character development is back to extremist right wing business as usual.
That's probably not young Chandra, but just regular Chandra. Anyone would look small next to big cat man.
Canonically she is one of the shortest of the gatewatch.
Yeah I still don’t think this is coming out.
Having years between announcements, and each one announce a different creative team and different story shows a clear lack of interest from behind the scenes.
We’ll see a magic show/movie a decade after the game has lost popularity and they’re looking to reboot the IP. No shot that they’re going to risk a big project on what is the most profitable part of the company.
You say that, but then there's things like Magic 30th and aftermath... So I think Hasbro will absolutely keep pushing Wizards towards anything they can do for more money. After all, TV shows sell toys so if they can make it good enough, they can get the kiddies, or so they think. It's going to most likely suck
@@SwedeRacerDCthey keep pumping out Transformers movies like there's no tomorrow. They came back to D&D adaptations. They made Barbie movie and are planing more G.I. JOE movies. What makes you think they do not want a MtG show or movie?
@@sathrielsatanson666 I agree with you. I was challenging the idea that they weren't going to risk it right now.
@@SwedeRacerDC what would they be risking it other than money? People are not going to stop buying boosters because they did not like TV adaptation.
@@sathrielsatanson666 You're asking the wrong person. Look at the dude who made the original claim. Again, I agree with you that it's not really going to stop them. They might temporarily lose face publicly, but people don't really unify to teach them a real lesson, so it isn't a real risk
This show would be so good if every episode was a one-off short story on a different fan favorite plane
but it's Netflix...probably going to be about a girl that struggles cause every white dude underestimates her.
maybe Elspeth, but instead of not wanting to be a hero (like in lore), she wants to be a hero but society is like "but you're a girl".
Excellent idea, though I still think they could mess it up irreparably.
@@jeannaimarre3537 if they ended up being separate short stories, if even one was good, having such a cool piece of standalone magic lore would be a win in my books.
Star Wars Visions style
@knightofthenorth926 I sincerely hope you're right, but with Netflix, it can be 50/50.
Where I completely agree with you is that, with standalone episodes, they're more likely to at least have one right, and it can be remembered fondly. While with a serie even with a good episode, it'll still likely be trash and remembered as such..
Netflix’s animated output is a mixed bag. But I love the Castlevania show, so it has potential to be good.
Arcane is superb and Edgerunners is pretty good... so pretty big hits there.
@@sathrielsatanson666exactly all award winners and anime of the years! The amazing Blue eyed Samurai just won an Emmy too!
90% of them are amazing.
@@dygitalsol7312 Yes, Netflix has been doing better with animation than with live action on average. AND damn, thanks for reminding me I need to see Blue Eye Samurai.
@@sathrielsatanson666 I've only watched the first 2 or 3 EP but it's amazing
I'm cautiously optimistic, I've been wanting this show for like...probably a decade at this point (since I started playing)
Don't mind a creation of a show that changes the lore or world. As long it's done with reason and some compelling story telling. Swapping people, removing characters or whatever change it is that's done, as long as it's done with purpose and decent intention sure.
But arbitrary changes for sake of it with no real thought or reason. Nah.
Adaptations do not have to be faithful, they need to be good. There are plenty adaptations that strayed from the original that are classics (Shining, Starship Troopers). And being faithful does not guarantee quality. As long as one tells compelling story changes are fine.
I don't care at all Magics Lore is not good and never had been.
You have the pre-mending lore which is
Urza: what if a immortal wizard eugenics practicing fascist was portrait as the protagonist
Or post mending
The tale of how a well designed game element like Planeswalker cards don't work well for fiction
Hasbro and Netflix announcing the series so early in its development process was just a blatant attempt to appease shareholders and boost stock prices. Remember, this announcement came before some of WotC’s successes in other media, like D&D: Honor Among Thieves and BG3. Wall Street analysts have previously accused Hasbro of “under-exploiting” its IP (laughable for anyone who actually plays Magic and now endures three million set releases a year, but this is how finance suits think). Cue a high budget presentation with a semi-famous (sorry Brandon Routh) actor to appease disgruntled shareholders. But the reality is most shows/movies get stuck in development hell. Just because someone buys a project doesn’t mean that it will even make it to pre-production (nevermind production)-in fact, most projects simply don’t. I’m slightly irked that gaming news outlets are reporting that the Magic show is now “heading into production.” All Netflix and entertainment media outlets like Variety have reported is that there’s a new showrunner attached. That does not mean that pre-production has even started yet; it likely means a new writers room and a new stab at creating a show bible that Netflix and Wizards are willing to greenlight. So, possibly starting from scratch, possibly a fresh pair of eyes to edit what’s been done already (if that’s much of anything at this point). I would not be surprised if eOne, the production company that used to handle all of Hasbro’s forays into film/TV but was laboriously sold off to Lionsgate when Hasbro began desperately searching for parts of its portfolio that it could jettison for cash, was previously involved in some iteration of the show, and it being sold to a different company added to the kerfuffle around the show.
Anyway, long rant to say that companies like Hasbro could do better in managing fan expectations and publicly traded companies are all to happy to trade on the news of something that isn’t close to being real yet.
Wasn't D&D honor among theives a bomb because it came out against the Mario movie
That bit about link rot and the degradation of the internet over time really hit home for me. I've been on the internet since 1995 and I grieve for the loss of that ideal of things always being accessible. I could probably write an essay on the subject at this point, but a comment on a RUclips video seems like the wrong place to do that, so I'll leave it alone for now. 🙂
I disagree a bit on the "Lore doesnt matter" take. Its true that if you want to tell new storys you need to be ready to make some sacrificies and write some parts new. But that only applies to details. Bigger plotpoints and characterarcs/personalities should most definitly stay how they where. If you go against it it will feel disconnected or straight up create an alternate universe (which might be fine but then it should be thought off and be treated as such)
Respecting the lore is respecting your old fans. Otherwise, you get whatever mess Star Wars is right now. You give incentives to your audience to care and remain fans instead of punishing them. Being flexible is fine, I get shudders whenever I read Tolkien fans quoting his works as if they were The Bible.
A magic tv show would be the most prominent display of magic canon. Magic canon is very topsy turvy anyway, why should the show stick to stories which are overwhelmingly mid and often terribly written?
Well, Chandra is still awfully young (especially for almost having kept the abbot position). The visual guide says she's mid-20's and 5 ft 6 in, while Ajani is stated to be mid-40s, 6 ft 3 in. Ajani has the high ground in the picture, so maybe that's why he seems more towering?
I also checked the Chandra comic book, and in scenes they have together the size difference is even more pronounced than here.
I've liked the lore and feel of both Bloomburrow and Duskmourn the worlds feel pretty MTG. Maybe Duskmourn less so with the tech... but they feel like original cool things! Hopefully this is a return to form!
I mean, i agree with the lore point on this. You dont have to follow established lore to make new content.
Lord knows Magic itself hasnt for years.
Yep. One of the things I enjoy about franchises spreading to new media is that changes to the lore can create new and interesting surprises for old fans, and I'd rather be surprised by a well-written change than just see the story I already know being presented again in a new medium. It can be a really satisfying form of expectation subversion when you THINK you know what's coming and it turns out to be totally different.
Bonus points that the reactionary grifters who flip shit over whatever “woke” details exist in the show, won’t actually be Magic players.
Surely a great choice would be adaptations of key story beats across magic canon across different planes and timelines, with a few random fun side stories too 😅
Shandalar was a great Magic video game. I would 100% pay good money for that game to be redone with modern cards basically the way it is.
Damn, you stole the comment from my mind 😂 The remake of that game would be a dream come true.
Have you looked into Manalink 3.0? Unfortunately, updates to the RPG part got scrapped years ago, but it might scratch the nostalgia itch w/ updated cards in the duel portion of the game
A greatly cautious on this one, considering this is Netflix we’re talking about, and WotC’s storytelling is currently a mixed bag right now.
Right now? Magic managed to have ONE good storyline in 30 years (it was Weatherlight).
@@engiopdf8745 agreed, but it's especially bad now.
As far as lore goes its how its done and perceived motivations behind it. Changes can happen but when the IP is so built those changes are harder. Im a POC, its great to see other POC characters but when those characters are being used to replace established ones it is just a hand me down. I want characters that are actually ours not a black superman for example.
As someone who has read the books and a lot of the web stories. I don't need it to be the same(Some of the web stories go against the lore of the books). As long as it is good and follows most/some of the lore, I'll be fine with it.
As someone who isn't into Warhammer, I'm wondering - did the custodians not have women in their ranks, because no authors had ever thought to include women, or did some authors specifically state "women are not and have never been allowed to be custodians"?
Custodes have always been referred to using typically male centered language until the recent "retcon" or whatever you want to call it. Its not that no author THOUGHT to include them. The process that creates a custode was specifically stated not to work on women for whatever made up sci-fi reasons they made up
There was a way to change that, screaming at your customers "THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FEMALE CUSTODES" was not the route you take
Its insulting to anyone who cared about the story by trying to gaslight them into believing something always was when it wasnt
@@Dark_Jeff "The process that creates a custode was specifically stated not to work on women for whatever made up sci-fi reasons they made up"
No, never, in the entirety of any book, blurb or ANYTHING. Were the modifications made to Custodes said to not work on women.
You are thinking of GENE SEED. Space Marines are Stated to NOT BE WOMEN. But custodes are *Hand Crafted*, and are not made the same way.
@@TrueMiz Aron Dembski Bowden, a codex writer, was specifically told by GW not to include women custodes when he wrote one of their former codexes because it wasnt possible....are you arguing with their own writers?
@@TrueMiz Regardless "since the first of the ten thousand" was total bs and a poor response to their customers
@@Dark_Jeff Uhm... googled it, thats not what Aaron said. He said that GW told him not to, because the *MODELS* Were all male. Let me quote him here:
"There was no reason they couldn't be male or female *and as far as things still stand, there is still no lore reason they can't be)."
And
"There are no female Custodian models, they're all male."
Meaning it's YOU who is arguing against the writers. Google is free.
Simply because this video reminded me of it and in the near future there will be more episodes of it, here is the MTG saturday morning cartoon intro rap courtesy of Graham Stark, Loading Ready Run:
The Multiverse is in a jam,
A diabolical plan of a dragon man!
Big Nicky B and his various schemes
Are gonna make his evil dreams
Come true!
What’s up? We‘re the Gatewatch crew!
And we‘re here to save this plane for you!
From Innistrad to Kamigawa,
Gonna beat Nicky B and he‘s gonna be sour!
Well I‘m Gideon, don‘t call me Chad
And I‘m gonna-
starring jack black as ajani, aquafina as chandra, chris pratt as jace
"I... am Ajani." Jack Black wearing a white fur pimp coat.
Vince, the art at 6:05 is literally a straight rip from Exquisite Firecraft.
I'm one of those pretty intense lore people, and while it would be kind of sad to just totally ignore the existing storylines, Chandra and Ajani make for some veeeery good interactions. So as long as they are true to how the characters behave, I think I would forgive them for not fitting the canon.
Though also, just because Chandra looks small doesn't mean she's young. Ajani is just really freaking big. This could be set at any point with Chandra just having cut her hair.
Just let a japanese studio do it tbh, most of the good netflix anime was done by japanese studios in the first place; Devilman Crybaby, Cyberpunk 2077, PLUTO etc. I don't think Baki really count but you could count that as well. Castlevania was okay season1 but completely dropped the ball in season 2, Dota anime was pretty mediocre, Arcane was alright.
Following Arcane, I think if Netflix made a kind of gritty-darker show with a distinct exciting art style, it could do well! My fingers are crossed.
my guess is the MTG show is its gonna be more of a netflix dota 2 than an arcane if we're comparing it to animated MOBA adaptations lol
The show could be a great opportunity to rewrite a bunch of the weaker plot points they rushed while writing the lore. Of course, I don't have a lot of hope since some of that awful writing allowed for the status quo of the story we have now. BTW, does anyone really care about Chandra as a character? She works more as a mascot than anything.
Picard season 3 is much improved over season 1 and 2 as far as quality of character writing and plot go, but it's still pretty egregious with the "memberberries" stuff. I would still recommend checking it out.
I trust that you weren't joking when you said "as a fan of old school star trek, should I check out Picard season 3?" but that's totally something someone might say as a joke. Yes, yes you should. I can't 100% confirm that you'll like it, but if you've already watched the first 2 seasons (which barely had anything to do with the older shows) you might as well watch the one season that is essentially a sequel to TNG.
Also, imo, regardless of whether you like it or not, I hope it will convince you that something being produced by Terry Matalas isn't something to be worried about. I think the reasons some people don't like his work are usually things like "not as similar to the source material as I expected" and "the vibe just isn't for me" but imo the stories and characters are always great. To me, learning that the MTG show would be produced by him made me stop worrying that it's just going to be some bullshit cash grab with shallow characters and a generic plot. Because those are things I've never seen Terry Matalas do.
How the hell were they going to make a show of the magic the gathering story in the first place? By the time this show was announced MTG's story was already non-existent.
You can make up whatever you want. Magic's setting has tons of possibilities.
The best answer would have been to totally ignore the modern story and use some of the old Dominaria stories like the Brother's War
4:00 Terry Matalas did season 3 of Picard, which is actually really amazing... at least according to Red Letter Media (i know, you won't believe me... a random guy in the comment section). So yes! Absolutely check it out! Season 3's script also has several betweenthelines-middlefingers pointed directly at the events of season 2. 😆
All I want them to do is create a Firefly style show based around the crew of the Weatherlight.
Its definitely a full reboot as the previous one with Routh did not have Ajani in it, or at least not in the first 10 episodes.
I say, release it EVEN IF ITS BAD:
even if it bombs, there will be engagement from the fans as to what was good and what was awful, that way in 5+ years when the idea for a show resurfaces, we can make a good show.
OR they can just study how ARCANE was made and not waste everyone's time.
Ima watch it if they release it.
100% watch Picard season 3. That is the season Terry Matalas showran. Picard season 3 is basically a love letter to the original Star Trek The Next Generation. Very much worth the watch if you are anyway a fan of Star Trek TNG.
is it almost certainly Chandra on the poster: Yes
Is that going to stop me taking the biggest hit of copium in my life to believe it's Nahiri: Absolutely not, the world can never stop me dreaming
my parents are big Trekkies and they really liked Picard, but their favourite series was always TNG
Oh boy, after OTJ and MKM's stories I'm positive Magic is a great place for lore! I'm sure it won't be schlock!
Can't backup your opinion on he acolyte. It's one thing to add or modify lore, or to take creative liberties with your art. But to rewrite core parts of it and change some of the pillars that the entire series is built on, while claiming it is canon but that canon doesnt matter is completely different.
Picard S3 is the best Picard season by far. How far that takes you is going to vary, of course, but it wasn't a bad watch.
Lore is more like a good ingredient to make food as long as movie turn out good. I don't think people will have problem with stick too much to the lore.
i have been playing this game for a while and tbh, I rather they (netflix) would retell the original MTG with Urza lore. that cannon is confusing but it is the structure to everything that is mtg.
Hear me out, Season 1 is going the be a Kaladesh story arc of leading to chandra spark Igniting and her vanishing from Kaladesh. In a post credit scene we will see her years later on the plane of Regatha with Jaya and Ajani in some stupid avengers type set up for a Movie called Magic the Gathering: The Gate Watch set to Air in like 4 years so they can tell a member of the Gate watches backstory per season.
Picard Season 3 felt more like TNG/DS9 Star Trek than any other newer shows with exception of Lower Decks which I just adore.
Yes, you shoud give Picard Season 3 a go.
I liked season 3 of Picard, but I jumped in out of context and kinda had to accept not knowing what the hell is going on, and even so, if you like next gen you will get warm fuzzies and a tear well up every now and again.
If it's the same as their plans before, they said the story wouldn't follow the games story strictly and tell its own story.
Do not care much about Star Trek but Redlettermedia liked Picard Season 3 and they are OG Star Trek afficionados.
As a person who really wanted the Netflix series "Dragons Dogma" to succeed. I lack confidence in an MTG series
Netflix and Hasbro, what could possibly go right?
Picard S3 is a huge improvement but does have its flaws. The nostalgia factor is tugged much harder than the previous seasons in a way that I liked, others didn't. It could be worth it for you, it might not, just go in with low expectations if you do.
His restructuring is over 9000!
And this, is supposed, to go, even, further, beyond!
The person next to ajani kind of looks like nahiri
I think so as well, looks a lot more like Nahiri than Chandra.
I still think mtg would make for a fantastic RPG. Imagine a progression system similar to the path of exile skill tree, where instead of 3 main directions you have 5, all representing a color in magic. Maybe the border between colors represents color pairs, maybe getting something in the blue skill tree affects something in the red skill tree to feel like that color pair. I think the potential depth in that system would resonate with the players if the card game given how deep its interactions can be. But i guess some crappy Diablo knock off is good enough
i know its not to everyone's taste but i had a lot of fun watching Star Trek Picard. He's on a wild post retirement space adventure its a good time
Picard season 3 is like a love letter to Trek fans, you should watch it :)
A budget of couple of million? Maybe, but considering that streamers often spend ten times that per episode on various series, it is quite possible and likely that the budget would have been much higher than a couple of million.
If there is any story worth turning into a series it is The Weatherlight Saga... Not that i would trust anyone to do it proper.
Between all the production troubles and hand-switching, the general low quality of Magic's storytelling, and their bad history when it comes to doing anything other than the actual card game, I would be honestly astounded if it ended up even half decent.
I remember reading one MTG novel (possibly a Mirroden story?) that had the main character almost being defeated then saved at the last minute in like six or seven chapters in a row. (Very boring after the first few times)
One can only hope any MTG movie adaptation won't be that one.
I feel u about the wiki sources. Frustrates me too
the old netflix promo art thingie is just exquisite firecraft the card
I have to confess: I do not watch all your videos because it has been years since I played MtG but you always strike me as a reasonable chap. Your takes on adaptations and internet outrage mob proves that 😊
Everything about that show just sounds like it is in production hell. You never know, I recently watched that new Terminator anime on Netflix that's actually pretty good, but I'm also not very confident.
I still don't understand why it's so difficult for them to do anything with the IP, when Dungeons and Dragons gets at least some games every now and then. Like we got a Magic set about Baldurs Gate 3 before a good Magic videogame that's not just a simulator of the cardgame.
Say what you will about Games Workshop, but I think them giving their IP to both large and small studios works pretty well. Yeah there are inevitably some stinkers, but there also are a lot of decent to great titles from cheap indie-level games to big AAA productions.
There was a good Magic game in the 90s: it was called Duels of the Planeswalkers: Shandalar. It would be cool if someone wanted to make a remake/reimagining with the new cards.
To be fair, anyone trying to join a community so they can change it need to be gate kept out. They can go make their own group
A whole MINUTE of ads, in a show that originally aired with almost 20 minutes of ads, the horror!
lol, seriously though, I'd forgotten about this show being a thing. 5 years is a pretty big gap. And apparently, if it's still a thing, they scrapped all the original plans and production if the dude recorded a couple lines then never heard from them again.
7:41, what a hypocritical take. Didn't you make a 13 minute long video called;
"I dont know why they did this?" Almost 12 months ago. Taking care of the lore matters. Why else would you watch something if the story isnt coherent to its own rules its established. Saying the audience is just bigots/neckbeard/misogynist's is low hanging fruit.
Now before I get hate. Vince I watch every upload you make and I've been following for almost 3 years, I agree with alot of your takes but sometimes there are opinions like this that are just, biased politically charged BS excuse, to justify companies adjusting stories to grift their audience.
terry matalas is also working on the vision show for disney so i've got a feeling we're not going to here about this iteration of the mtg show for a while (also picard S3 is the only one worth watching)
Maybe if Disney buys it, it'll have money behind it and get made. Whether it's good is a different story
If the show will actually come to pass it will break cannon in some ways but if it’s a great show most people won’t care and haters are gonna get shut out. The reason why shows like the acolyte was so hated wasn’t because the cannon was broken, it was because it was genuinely in most people opinions trash. Barely anyone showed fallout hate when people realized that the show was genuinely fire. There will always be haters but so if 50000 cards of lore doesn’t get followed to a tee.
Picard season 3 is actually good if you love TNG, otherwise its just fine tv with refrences to the old shows
They should absolutely do something with the characters that works for a series and do their own thing. I read some of the magic lore, the books from the 90‘s and eaerly 2000 are not dogshit, but lets be real, the story since the planeswalkers are introduced is okay for a cardgame lore, but that one to one adopted as a series is a 6/10 at best, it does absolutely nothing unique or remotely daring or surprising. BUT they have some of the coolest characters designs , concept ideas and god damn environmental design ever made, thanks to the artist. Take that and pair that with some exceptional writing and pls do not make it pg13, thanks.
don't worry Vince, I don't think the official lore matters and I'm pretty sure WotC just barely does
Picard season 3 is very good. It's the only one you should have watched.
Magic needs a Magic the Gathering Go! Type cartoon because the lore is wiggidy wiggidy wack
"The Horus Heresy is a good series-"
*Battle of the Abyss has entered the chat*
But seriously, yeah, net positive.
I dont think Netflix will care about Chandra's preferences when Arcane is doing amazing for them.
If it ever happens...
People need RIGHT FKN NOW to get used to the ideas that this will likely not follow any recognizable WOTC lore
1 because they've never done a TV show before
2 they have retconned their own material before, so I doubt they'll be religious about sticking to canon.
Hoping it is actually a good show.
I place a lot of value on the lore because without it, there's no point. The majority of fan bases are formed around the history, of a series, and if you decide to change that, then you disenfranchise the majority of your fanbase, what's the point? You can make Harry Potter into a jedi because lore doesn't matter, Star Wars could happen At hogwarts inside a room, it doesn't matter. You can make up like any bullshit you wanted to, and then the whole point of your story becomes pointless.
this guy is really toxic
So... Am I the only person who doesn't think that's Chandra... The silhouette and features seem much closer to nahiri and I get the light in her hand... But she's a lithomancer she could do many things that produce light. Anyways just what I feel I see
Being old doesn’t mean you’re wrong. Wtf is Feast?
Scrapping the show because Chad is dead makes sense. Just like The Flash from the Justice League cartoons was Wally instead of Barry, why promote a dead character?
"Do I remember last week" tbh, no. I am adrift
Was not expecting PK to support the acolyte 😂
I haven't watched it. I just can't stand the faux-criticism of fucking idiots online.
@PleasantKenobi I 100% agree with ya boss, it just caught me off guard
@@PleasantKenobi trust me its bad, just because chuds hate it doesn't make it good.
@@PleasantKenobi The show's mid, but not for political reasons. Just poorly written.
oh vince vince, you do realize that the reason why the lore is a pickup point for fans? because it is COHESIVE. That's why MTG lore was never really a major thing, because wotc and hasbro did not give a fck about fleshing it out, whereas GW put major effort in establishing certain things. Also - mumbling about neckbeards and boys clubs is really old, considering there's a lot of badass women in WH.
Tell that to the comments on my warhammer channel.
It's too early and we know too little to make any meaningful speculation honestly. It could be awesome, it could be hot garbage, it could happen in a year, or we might hear nothing for three years only to find out its been restarted once again or cancelled
Who cares about Netflix, the ACTUAL MTG show we need is an anime adaptation of Destroy All Humans. They Can't be Regenerated.
WH40K is hilarious since it is full of retcons and has changed drastically since the beginning.
Also IIRC i heard that women existed in the custodies at some point.
Also something something nothings cannon something something unreliable narrators.
Picard season 3 is Terry Matalas playing with action figures. Fun moments but totally pointless and ultimately dumb as fuck.
Season 2 has a stupid pointless plot and doesn't earn an otherwise very sweet ending.
I started playing in 2014 so I have nostalgia for the shitty 3d trailers. Watching them today they are very funny
I still don’t think a good magic show exists following the gatewatch at all. Then using gatewatch members in their marketing really doesn’t give me high hopes for the story of the show at all.
So to answer your question. Season 2 is hot garbage. not worth the time to watch. Season 3 is worth the time. It's a bit of a "member berry" show but in a good way? season two was just dull. I don't know how or why we'd have a filler episode in an 8 episode season. And to tie this in with your lore conversation. I think it was Leonard Nemoy himself (and i'm paraphrasing) "The cannon is good to have and sprinkle like seasoning. Use it if and where you can to improve the story but don't be held hostage by it. "