@@irongxpeople fundamentally think by creating statements and trying them out to the public. You must understand that there are some people who have that thought who are just coming across it for the first time, maybe that person is only recently starting to think about draft; yes it’s a somewhat basic draft concept, but not to someone who is more of a beginner to thinking about this stuff tldr don’t be rude, you’re not clever, you’re not slick, you’re not smart grow up.
I think she's just a circumstances of needing so many games for possible payoff when she's also feast or famine because she offers no cc when she's behind. She isn't bad, just why practice her for 50-100 games when that time could be spent on refining yone or sylas or such.
This, lots of pro mids still looked off on Yone in worlds and the champ is strong af on that patch. Dislike how LS dismisses this as a “pros are lazy coaches are stupid” issue as if the ROI for effort spent learning Katarina could be negative after only a couple of bad patches considering how situational picking her would be
Yeah, from my perspective it’s the same reason why champs like Riven and Kat are not picked often or at all in pro play. Even if they’re good in the meta and are strong enough, the time sink to learn each one is massive compared to the others on the table. And on stage with nerves, there’s also the issue of consistency: it could be Kat is unstoppable if played correctly, but that would only happen when the stars aligned. On the other hand, just pick Sylas and have a solid game 95% of the time. Or why play Riven when Jax exists and does 85% of Riven’s job and 300x easier than the combos and execution required for Riven? Which team is insane enough to practice Riven or Kat for that miracle Game 5 Finals pocket pick when you could’ve spent that time making sure you never got to a game 5 with a solid Jax/Gwen?
I mean sure, but the point still stands. He's not an OTP when Katarina is his 5th most played, and he has 68% wr on 2 other champs, 63% on another and 58% on the last lol.
@@asrieldreemurr7577 Yeah that's why I said "I mean sure", but we all know the point he's making and can all clearly see it is his 5th most played so who gives a fuck
Well the problem is you will pick her in R5 last pick at best because she gets countered by CC tanks and Skarner Sejuani is picked like every game. She’s also kinda not that good vs Yone.
It's just flashy mid lane picks (aside from akali) are rare this day and age of super scaling dmg or armor or someone with giga ton of health, can tank dmg and CC and when he ults, he will drag you to narnia while converting his tanky stats to damage and have morw dashes at the same time 😂
I always assumed Kat wasn’t viable in pro because of the Leblanc/MF issues, point and click cc seems that it would just shut her down so hard, she would never get a good ult off, she would get killed after getting touched, etc…I’d like to hear LS’s thoughts on that because that’s as far as I’ve personally gotten with consideration to her pro viability.
One main issue that LS didn’t seem to address is that Kat can be easily neutralized with a team that can communicate in real time. Not to mention, she has almost no winning matchups in lane except for maybe Veigar, Xerath or Velkoz meaning a pro team that picks Kat mid will be continuously bleeding gold as Kat will always be behind CS unless she starts getting kills. And lastly, she’s very one dimensional. All she does is do damage. She doesn’t have form of engage, self or team peel, CC, shielding/healing etc.
I feel like it’s because you kinda know what Katarina might do like other dueling assassins to where she can be countered by better players like pro players
i think its unfair to frame it as “pro players r lazy lole” the biggest problem with champs like kat is that since theyre *usually not* pro play viable, pro players are almost always wasting their time practicing her compared to other midlane champions, which means that nobody has any prerequisite knowledge on how to play katarina on an individual level, which means before a team can even begin to practice integrating her into competitive play, the midlaner has to learn how to play one of the most mechanically intensive champs in the entire game at a professional level
I agree with you Ls, but learning Katarina is just not very good ROI for a pro. The amount of time needed to play this champ well just for a mediocre pay off is just not worth it. there are better champs to invest your time and get proficient on
Exactly this. It's really not laziness, it just isn't worth it. Every single champion in league can be picked if some conditions are met, but if there are alternatives that are more general, you gain very little for a lot of investment. You also need to convince your team this champion is good if nobody else plays it.
@@marianoherrera6038Kat is very feast or famine so her balancing is a tight rope and very fickle. If she is too weak then she can never get to the feast part and Kat players suffer, but the second she can consistently get to the feast part then she becomes an absolute abomination that kills an entire team while dashing 20 times and it turns into the most aids gameplay of any champion in the game.
Thats bs, she may be powerful but the hole team has to play around your stupid pick that may be on par with power of other picks. Jet you have to invest time to lern the champ that is oK and depending your team to play around it. While you could play champs that are easyer and bring more to the team then her while also dont demand your team to play around it and you can actually improve in the game other then playing a stupid pick that may or may not work out.
Showmaker was literally a Katarina OTP no? If an OTP who is large regarded as an amazing player dosent pull them out, thats a champ issue. Shes an assassin, meaning she is feast or famine. Assassins always weaker in pro play. She has one of the worst laning phases possible, cant cs and has little wave clear. She is completely reliant on making up the loss of gold and experience from getting kills. That dosent go well when games are organized and have less meaningless fighting. Even a Katarina thats 2-0 at 20 minutes in a pro game is still going to be down in gold and levels. Its like picking Kayle, but your also not guaranteed to hit any powerspike.
"Can't cs and don't have wave clear." You lost me there. Katarina is literally on par with Akali, who's literally on champ rotation in pro play. If you drafted her properly in a comp, she's viable. She's also a low econ champ that can kill you in a 1v1 situation.
She has some strong competitors like ahri, leblanc, and akali that just feel stronger and safer in most cases. I agree she's probably a decent counterpick.
How does katarina survive lane against a pro player on a ranged champion? her lane is so awful I can't see her not going 30cs down and roams are obv a lot less reliable in pro.
completley wrong in my opinion. katarina is super weak compared to other assassins like Sylas, Fizz, Diana, Akali, Leblanc, Zed, almost any other assassin. she can be strong if fed but never as strong as the other assassins i mentioned unless she's mega fed and a few levels ahead of everyone else in the game. She has no cc or healing or invisibility or extremely low cool downs like the other assassins and her playstyle also makes you learn bad habits that pro players believe are bad for gameplay. It's literally just the league community (mostly low rank players) that keep making it seem as if katarina is a good champion when she actually is not. She is super fun though cause of the risky type of outplays she can do while having double to triple the cool downs of other assassins and resetting after kills feels great cause of not having to wait for the long cool downs she naturally has but let's not confuse "fun" with "good champion". she needs a buff or rework (more likely a rework)
Imo i think compared to other niche picks that LS recommends this one might be a little too hard for most pro players ,not because of the skill requirement and more of how much time you need to put into her to know things like matchups and understanding when and how to engage with her .Technically she can be played if the enemy team somehow doesnt have that much cc ,but considering that is like once every 10 games ,i would say she could work as a counter pick in very specific comps ,but at that point is it worth playing 250 games just to able to pilot her in pro play ?
answer is when stops enforcing meta and lets it change by itself, only moving things around when they become problems in one way or the other, instead of always wanting to keep the "balance" in their terms. like when people told Riot for the whole duration of mythic items that some of them were just overpowered they didn't do jack, all cause "it created cool viewing experience when champions like fiora (lets face it she is fun to watch pros pilot) and such could lieterally 1v9..." did it break whole economy and balance to keep those items so powerful? yes. but cause viewing numbers were up they kept it xD
The end is why most dont see pro play. They are great on solo que where communication is nonexistent but with pro teams who play together every day and have headphones its totally different
all midlaner just rotate the same few champs every meta control mage? ori syndra adc mid meta? trist lucian corki smolder when theyre not available? azir sylas akali
she would be good in pro under the right circumstances problem is she is there are champs that are easier and better then her that would do the same job as her
She hard loses lvl 1 against every champion dude xD and I think proplayer know that too and know how to abuse it and snowball the whole game out of it like player like chovy will solo kill her lvl 1 or make her lose the whole wave
I can agree with you on everything but this. Katarina's pure 1v1 laning-phase is just absolutely abysmal except for like into 2 match-ups. Competent players in a coordinated environment will also play teamfights correctly to deal with her and won't die to her coinflip roams so it's really hard into bad teamcomps. Theoretically it could work as a r5 but no one would blind her good matchups.
she's not good in competitive bro. good midlaners are gonna bully her, no range, no wave clear, no objective prio or fast take, no sidelane. you would have to draft an entire comp around her and it would be sub par at best
Katarina just struggles rn, especially in pro play. With champs like Renekton, Sejuani, Rell, Rakan, Jax, etc. Kat is practically impossible to play. Mix in the fact that they can and will be picked together, and it's easily why she isn't picked in pro play whatsoever. She's a carry, but if there's ANY instant cc with a character, she's just dead
I think the meta just doesn’t allow for it. Teams would instantly chain cc her. I haven’t seen a comp that lacked CC power yet. Unless we’re talking about the full dmg comps. But that was mainly opened due to first picking mids, and realizing you didn’t need CC. But when the draft goes to last picks for mid, you already see theres plenty of CC, Skarner, Rell, etc.
Why learn a new champ that is not op? If Katarina is on the same power level with other mid laners then probably pros won't sacrifice time for no known advantage🤷 They aren't lazy, they just don't have to learn her. Make her op then I bet every pro mid laner learns her quick.
All pro players are lazy, yet seem to pick up tons of different champions on every single patch. And even the pros who were Katarina 1 tricks don't think she's very good. They must all be wrong. Makes perfect sense.
You say “watch KatEvolved he’s the best Katarina in the world” yet in every stream he talks about she IS garbage, absolutely weak in lane and doesn’t provide any utility to her team which makes her horrible in coordinated proplay.
I dont think its fair to say they are lazy for not wanting to learn katarina, she's actually not that simple and to get her pro ready you'd need to know a lot of combos and set-ups, she's just not worth the time it takes because the meta is constantly shifting.
You can say that about most assassins lmao. Just like with most assassins, It’s incredibly dependent on the player’s knowledge of the character and ability to recognize when is the right time to flip the switch.
@@nicholashinderer9896 Yeah definitely. I don’t think he’s at all suggesting she’s a viable blind pick. But there are definitely some team comps in the current pro meta where she would definitely thrive as a counter pick
@@zura17 Agreed! If you watch specialists like KatEvolved though you’ll learn she has quite a few different builds that make her pretty damn versatile. She doesn’t need to be built pure glass cannon assassin like the others in order to be useful.
Alot of players look linear when they see Kat and disregard the jungler and support champions who can help her thrive... I like LS thoughts over the fact that he's open minded and analyzes more than one variation outside of just lane phase. Theres so many champions and pro players are just scared to try new things and LS displays that problem.
This take is so wrong, Katarina is a terrible pro play champ…. Maybe if she became a viable jungler somehow, but even then why would you ever play her there when champs like Talon, Khazix and Qiyana exist
Stop the nature of pro play does not allow Katarina to function LS. Sure cope western regions might play it but they will get stomped by eastern teams if they do so internationally.
the 0 utility champion that doesn't have a passive until you start snowballing and can get it's ult interrupted by pretty much every pro play pick can totally work guys I swear.
Well he also said kat would be before garen so…maybe not lmao Plus if you are a one trick it swings both ways, you can also just have insane bias thats just not true
I mean, it always bugged me that renekton is always relevant. Because he is simple, got good kit, can sustain a lane, a decent frontline but not a lot of CC capabilities. I feel like renekton has the same power level as kat, but people just often don't think of her because of how easy it is to counter her. I mean, beside the ardent censer meta, almost every pro play has atleast 3 champs that has cc.
Most of them are easily. They will find a build and spam it with no variation regardless of the situation - Perfect example is Grasp Ahri, built as a counter to something like Yone because it makes it easy for her to sustain because you can’t harass him out of lane as he will sustain through it. Proplayers; Spam Grasp Ahri endlessly likes it is omega broken and then wonder why they have no damage. Proplayers are very lazy.
@ambiguousspotlightofinsani6764 Tristana is a lane stomper with good wave clear and tower siege with enough self peel in her ult, and safety in her W. She also puts consistent damage in a teamfight on a pretty safe distance since she’s a marksman by nature. She’s basically an AD version of Ziggs. Kat on the other hand is terrible in lane, subpar wave clear, with no self peel, and needs to go into enemy team to deal damage in which case she gets locked down with cc the moment she E’s in. Then you’d think, “She’ll just go in late in a teamfight then” well then your team is basically playing a 4v5 teamfight til you play clean up and pros will definitely punish a 4v5. Lastly, there are a plethora of champions I would rather play first than Kat which are more reliable and less risky.
Saying that Katarina would be strong in competitive is troll given how hard she would lose lane, how easy she is to counter with CC and coordination and how useless she becomes from behind… this is why she has a garbage winrate above low elo, because anyone with half a brain cell can play into her. She is a half decent counterpick and nothing else.
Not to downplay the serious mobility creep but god the complaints about kat if released today would be unreal. I mean she literally has infinite jumps if someone dies.
i mean she was overpowered before her rework due to that mobility and "press R to penta" gameplay, and nothing has changed xD the only reason she is not played in pro is cause they have cohesion so if she jumps in to press R she is CCed more than your sister in Alabama
Bunch of low elo frogs here. If Akali and Smolder who are piss useless before lvl6/max stacks is used, why would y'all think Kata would be unplayable. "PROS" would already know what to do in the game they picked her. She's mobile cuz of her skills resets, has lowcd, can play at low econ, can deal more damage than Akali and many more. If you have a brain, you can just play around here weaknesses. People also said that Nunu would be useless at proplay, yet he won against the 1st seed of LCK in Worlds.
Nunu has teamwide cc, early gank pressure, good healing , a 2nd smite and decent engage with snowball. How does Katarina even compare to that monster of a champ?
Akali has a better lane/better matchup spread than Katarina, and tends to do better in sidelane bc she’s better than Kat in the 1v1. Shroud also gives her a level of safety Kat doesn’t really have in skirmishes. Smolder is a ranged champ and scales better than Katarina as well.
Maybe before but right now she's actually trash, you get dogged early and the best Katarinas win lanes by roaming bot which is way less effective in pro play. I can't see her being useful at all, other champs do her job better. Want a reset champ? Get a viego jngl. Edit. Katevolved said she's dogshit and he'd never pick her in pro play btw
showmaker “i think we will see her before garen atleast”
I guess he made that comment before Chovy beat him with Garen.
Shes a good R5 counterpick, but never a blind pick.
Ye well she's an assassin so that's basically a given
😱😱😱😱😱
no way? You’re so smart. You should be a coach bro
@@irongxpeople fundamentally think by creating statements and trying them out to the public. You must understand that there are some people who have that thought who are just coming across it for the first time, maybe that person is only recently starting to think about draft; yes it’s a somewhat basic draft concept, but not to someone who is more of a beginner to thinking about this stuff
tldr don’t be rude, you’re not clever, you’re not slick, you’re not smart
grow up.
@@irongx no doubt there's people here better analyst than the average na pro coach
@TheCrazykid0416 its an important distinction of a point. Its the point.
"i think she will make an appearance before garen" well that didnt last long
Kat also has a kit where if she sees too much pro play she will get nerfed right away
I think she's just a circumstances of needing so many games for possible payoff when she's also feast or famine because she offers no cc when she's behind. She isn't bad, just why practice her for 50-100 games when that time could be spent on refining yone or sylas or such.
This, lots of pro mids still looked off on Yone in worlds and the champ is strong af on that patch. Dislike how LS dismisses this as a “pros are lazy coaches are stupid” issue as if the ROI for effort spent learning Katarina could be negative after only a couple of bad patches considering how situational picking her would be
Yeah, from my perspective it’s the same reason why champs like Riven and Kat are not picked often or at all in pro play. Even if they’re good in the meta and are strong enough, the time sink to learn each one is massive compared to the others on the table. And on stage with nerves, there’s also the issue of consistency: it could be Kat is unstoppable if played correctly, but that would only happen when the stars aligned. On the other hand, just pick Sylas and have a solid game 95% of the time. Or why play Riven when Jax exists and does 85% of Riven’s job and 300x easier than the combos and execution required for Riven? Which team is insane enough to practice Riven or Kat for that miracle Game 5 Finals pocket pick when you could’ve spent that time making sure you never got to a game 5 with a solid Jax/Gwen?
"Katarina wasn't even in his top five champions" *shows top five with Katarina in it*
With the highest WR of the 5 as well.
I mean sure, but the point still stands. He's not an OTP when Katarina is his 5th most played, and he has 68% wr on 2 other champs, 63% on another and 58% on the last lol.
@@rleften5788 Thank you for calmly rebutting this dumb shit.
@@rleften5788 still misinformation to say Katarina isn't in his top 5 when the numbers disagree
@@asrieldreemurr7577 Yeah that's why I said "I mean sure", but we all know the point he's making and can all clearly see it is his 5th most played so who gives a fuck
If KatEvolved wasnt so fucked up, I would watch him
Well Showmaker was wrong, Garen did make an appearance before Kat
I remember that kami, the brazilian talent played her particualarly well. Even creating a few memes.
Pro Play always have at least 3 front line in game, all of them have a lot of CC on their kit which make kata easy to counter
Maybe when ad tank/bruiser kata was a thing. Not anymore tho
Well the problem is you will pick her in R5 last pick at best because she gets countered by CC tanks and Skarner Sejuani is picked like every game. She’s also kinda not that good vs Yone.
I really want to see Katarina’s Faker again as much as I wanted to see Riven’s Faker again 😭
It's just flashy mid lane picks (aside from akali) are rare this day and age of super scaling dmg or armor or someone with giga ton of health, can tank dmg and CC and when he ults, he will drag you to narnia while converting his tanky stats to damage and have morw dashes at the same time 😂
I always assumed Kat wasn’t viable in pro because of the Leblanc/MF issues, point and click cc seems that it would just shut her down so hard, she would never get a good ult off, she would get killed after getting touched, etc…I’d like to hear LS’s thoughts on that because that’s as far as I’ve personally gotten with consideration to her pro viability.
Fearless draft will bring her out
The zooms are killer
One main issue that LS didn’t seem to address is that Kat can be easily neutralized with a team that can communicate in real time. Not to mention, she has almost no winning matchups in lane except for maybe Veigar, Xerath or Velkoz meaning a pro team that picks Kat mid will be continuously bleeding gold as Kat will always be behind CS unless she starts getting kills. And lastly, she’s very one dimensional. All she does is do damage. She doesn’t have form of engage, self or team peel, CC, shielding/healing etc.
Do you honestly really think you know more than LS bro
Clueless@@TYLER1LOLCLIPS
@@TYLER1LOLCLIPSbro LS is gay
all the wining matchups and u ignores the easiest one ,,, taliyah
@@vascosilva-j1u Wtf is wrong with that, also he's bi.
and maybe enemy team is synergized enough to cc her burst that's why they're scared?
I feel like it’s because you kinda know what Katarina might do like other dueling assassins to where she can be countered by better players like pro players
how about sion?
Scarra back in the day: Am I a joke to you?
SeeEL é muito bom. Protejam esse cara a qualquer custo.
i think its unfair to frame it as “pro players r lazy lole”
the biggest problem with champs like kat is that since theyre *usually not* pro play viable, pro players are almost always wasting their time practicing her compared to other midlane champions, which means that nobody has any prerequisite knowledge on how to play katarina on an individual level, which means before a team can even begin to practice integrating her into competitive play, the midlaner has to learn how to play one of the most mechanically intensive champs in the entire game at a professional level
I agree with you Ls, but learning Katarina is just not very good ROI for a pro. The amount of time needed to play this champ well just for a mediocre pay off is just not worth it. there are better champs to invest your time and get proficient on
Exactly this. It's really not laziness, it just isn't worth it. Every single champion in league can be picked if some conditions are met, but if there are alternatives that are more general, you gain very little for a lot of investment. You also need to convince your team this champion is good if nobody else plays it.
Yeah this is true but Riot wants her that way because they have no idea how to balance her properly
@@marianoherrera6038Kat is very feast or famine so her balancing is a tight rope and very fickle. If she is too weak then she can never get to the feast part and Kat players suffer, but the second she can consistently get to the feast part then she becomes an absolute abomination that kills an entire team while dashing 20 times and it turns into the most aids gameplay of any champion in the game.
Thats bs, she may be powerful but the hole team has to play around your stupid pick that may be on par with power of other picks. Jet you have to invest time to lern the champ that is oK and depending your team to play around it. While you could play champs that are easyer and bring more to the team then her while also dont demand your team to play around it and you can actually improve in the game other then playing a stupid pick that may or may not work out.
Is it the same story for Ekko?
Showmaker says shes weak but get beaten by katevolved a lot 😂
Showmaker was literally a Katarina OTP no? If an OTP who is large regarded as an amazing player dosent pull them out, thats a champ issue.
Shes an assassin, meaning she is feast or famine. Assassins always weaker in pro play.
She has one of the worst laning phases possible, cant cs and has little wave clear.
She is completely reliant on making up the loss of gold and experience from getting kills.
That dosent go well when games are organized and have less meaningless fighting.
Even a Katarina thats 2-0 at 20 minutes in a pro game is still going to be down in gold and levels.
Its like picking Kayle, but your also not guaranteed to hit any powerspike.
Yup, fully agree with this. Have no clue what LS Is thinking with this take, she has one of the worst lane phases out of any mid champ in the game.
"Can't cs and don't have wave clear." You lost me there. Katarina is literally on par with Akali, who's literally on champ rotation in pro play. If you drafted her properly in a comp, she's viable. She's also a low econ champ that can kill you in a 1v1 situation.
@@michaellolsx If you die to her 1v1 as anyone but a skillshot oriented mage then you're doing something wrong in the lane honestly.
@@michaellolsxYou literally have never played Katarina vs someone competent it's hilarious your comment
@@michaellolsx On par with Akali. My god IQ doesn't come for free, huh.
Fearless draft might fix this
She has some strong competitors like ahri, leblanc, and akali that just feel stronger and safer in most cases. I agree she's probably a decent counterpick.
katevolved ad in disguise
She is a decent counterpick… but far too easy to counter to make her reliable.
How does katarina survive lane against a pro player on a ranged champion? her lane is so awful I can't see her not going 30cs down and roams are obv a lot less reliable in pro.
Same way Akali does. She is probably only pickable further into a draft
@@akaRAIJIN Akali has enough damage on her own that she can easily take defensive runes. Kat does not have that luxury.
@@sanguinebloom7628 you're clearly biased and thats ok
completley wrong in my opinion. katarina is super weak compared to other assassins like Sylas, Fizz, Diana, Akali, Leblanc, Zed, almost any other assassin. she can be strong if fed but never as strong as the other assassins i mentioned unless she's mega fed and a few levels ahead of everyone else in the game. She has no cc or healing or invisibility or extremely low cool downs like the other assassins and her playstyle also makes you learn bad habits that pro players believe are bad for gameplay.
It's literally just the league community (mostly low rank players) that keep making it seem as if katarina is a good champion when she actually is not. She is super fun though cause of the risky type of outplays she can do while having double to triple the cool downs of other assassins and resetting after kills feels great cause of not having to wait for the long cool downs she naturally has but let's not confuse "fun" with "good champion". she needs a buff or rework (more likely a rework)
Katarina just have no kit for standing lane, even yumi can bully kata
Katevolved content gets me in the zone
ikr watching good kata players helps me get so much better
Imo i think compared to other niche picks that LS recommends this one might be a little too hard for most pro players ,not because of the skill requirement and more of how much time you need to put into her to know things like matchups and understanding when and how to engage with her .Technically she can be played if the enemy team somehow doesnt have that much cc ,but considering that is like once every 10 games ,i would say she could work as a counter pick in very specific comps ,but at that point is it worth playing 250 games just to able to pilot her in pro play ?
The answer is no, not worth it
answer is when stops enforcing meta and lets it change by itself, only moving things around when they become problems in one way or the other, instead of always wanting to keep the "balance" in their terms. like when people told Riot for the whole duration of mythic items that some of them were just overpowered they didn't do jack, all cause "it created cool viewing experience when champions like fiora (lets face it she is fun to watch pros pilot) and such could lieterally 1v9..." did it break whole economy and balance to keep those items so powerful? yes. but cause viewing numbers were up they kept it xD
the KatEvolved shoutout
Idk, she would be a horrible blind pick with so many winning matchups and she is quite easy to neutralise with proper teamwork and communication
The end is why most dont see pro play. They are great on solo que where communication is nonexistent but with pro teams who play together every day and have headphones its totally different
I hate how stale the pro scene is
Remember when unicorns of love werent wusses?
@@phylippezimmermannpaquin2062 hmm i wonder what happened to that team… oh wait lmao
@@143tg they became meta
Gadget’s APC was so dang good, so dang good.
It even enabled lvl 1 sup gank top with how safe Ori/Viktor lvl 1 was
I respect this
all midlaner just rotate the same few champs every meta
control mage? ori syndra
adc mid meta? trist lucian corki smolder
when theyre not available? azir sylas akali
Imagine en enraged Faker on Katarina
No CC, no Utilities, only damage nothing else, and can be easily countered. Yeah...I womder why she isn't picked...
Braum kat are disgusting together, she procs his passive in 20 diff ways. Braum kat and some more supplecating braum proccers is very strong
She would just get endlessly punished in pro play.
she would be good in pro under the right circumstances problem is she is there are champs that are easier and better then her that would do the same job as her
Yeah this is wrong, it's so much easier for pro teams to have simple prepared priorities of saved, committed CC spells to cancel her ult.
She hard loses lvl 1 against every champion dude xD and I think proplayer know that too and know how to abuse it and snowball the whole game out of it like player like chovy will solo kill her lvl 1 or make her lose the whole wave
Good old days what Scarra was a pro player
i love autistic people. LS just says the things im thinking. its wonderful
Lmao no. It’s as simple as her kit gets absolutely dicked on by any amount of cc.
I can agree with you on everything but this. Katarina's pure 1v1 laning-phase is just absolutely abysmal except for like into 2 match-ups. Competent players in a coordinated environment will also play teamfights correctly to deal with her and won't die to her coinflip roams so it's really hard into bad teamcomps. Theoretically it could work as a r5 but no one would blind her good matchups.
This guy’s crazy lmao
she's not good in competitive bro. good midlaners are gonna bully her, no range, no wave clear, no objective prio or fast take, no sidelane. you would have to draft an entire comp around her and it would be sub par at best
Katarina just struggles rn, especially in pro play. With champs like Renekton, Sejuani, Rell, Rakan, Jax, etc. Kat is practically impossible to play. Mix in the fact that they can and will be picked together, and it's easily why she isn't picked in pro play whatsoever. She's a carry, but if there's ANY instant cc with a character, she's just dead
Its funny cause as Renekton OTP I hate playing against Katarina
@@thecroatianlad882I hope you aren’t talking about laning vs her….
I think pros just won't pick her up cuz she has no cc.
I think the meta just doesn’t allow for it. Teams would instantly chain cc her. I haven’t seen a comp that lacked CC power yet. Unless we’re talking about the full dmg comps. But that was mainly opened due to first picking mids, and realizing you didn’t need CC. But when the draft goes to last picks for mid, you already see theres plenty of CC, Skarner, Rell, etc.
Why learn a new champ that is not op? If Katarina is on the same power level with other mid laners then probably pros won't sacrifice time for no known advantage🤷 They aren't lazy, they just don't have to learn her. Make her op then I bet every pro mid laner learns her quick.
LS, it would take u 5 days of pure Katarina gameplay to understand that she is COMPLETELY useless and NOT viable in pro play.
Garen mid meanwhile...
All pro players are lazy, yet seem to pick up tons of different champions on every single patch. And even the pros who were Katarina 1 tricks don't think she's very good. They must all be wrong.
Makes perfect sense.
Didnt faker once respond with Kata and actually stomped bc their team had almost no cc?
You just answer your question.
1. Its a counter pick into no cc
2. Its Faker
You say “watch KatEvolved he’s the best Katarina in the world” yet in every stream he talks about she IS garbage, absolutely weak in lane and doesn’t provide any utility to her team which makes her horrible in coordinated proplay.
I would say they are lazy, more like they would like to spend time on less risky practice.
A mythic skin
I dont think its fair to say they are lazy for not wanting to learn katarina, she's actually not that simple and to get her pro ready you'd need to know a lot of combos and set-ups, she's just not worth the time it takes because the meta is constantly shifting.
and once she is played 5 times with 80% wr she instantly geht's nerfed
Katarina weak?, aint kat can be build jn multiple ways
Is the fact that basically no assasin is viable in pro, pro teams pick exhust or heavy point and click CC and basically deny their power.
Rarely do I see someone so confidently wrong.
In usa it's common
The worst part is that most of the community listens to these clowns 😂
In pro, the literal instant kat ults shell be hard cc'd
You can say that about most assassins lmao. Just like with most assassins, It’s incredibly dependent on the player’s knowledge of the character and ability to recognize when is the right time to flip the switch.
@@itsnearlv Also kinda hard for her to get prio
@@nicholashinderer9896 Yeah definitely. I don’t think he’s at all suggesting she’s a viable blind pick. But there are definitely some team comps in the current pro meta where she would definitely thrive as a counter pick
@@itsnearlv its almost like most assasins are not played in pro, the only assasin that is played is Akali
@@zura17 Agreed! If you watch specialists like KatEvolved though you’ll learn she has quite a few different builds that make her pretty damn versatile. She doesn’t need to be built pure glass cannon assassin like the others in order to be useful.
Alot of players look linear when they see Kat and disregard the jungler and support champions who can help her thrive...
I like LS thoughts over the fact that he's open minded and analyzes more than one variation outside of just lane phase.
Theres so many champions and pro players are just scared to try new things and LS displays that problem.
Tanks counter her way to easy
Pros are lazy, and teams just copy each other instead of innovating 🤔🤔
This take is so wrong, Katarina is a terrible pro play champ…. Maybe if she became a viable jungler somehow, but even then why would you ever play her there when champs like Talon, Khazix and Qiyana exist
Stop the nature of pro play does not allow Katarina to function LS. Sure cope western regions might play it but they will get stomped by eastern teams if they do so internationally.
Worst take ever
the 0 utility champion that doesn't have a passive until you start snowballing and can get it's ult interrupted by pretty much every pro play pick can totally work guys I swear.
How is bro this confidently wrong
I watched Kat evolve and all he did was flame his teammates while inting every time I turned his steam on😂
If showmaker says she is weak he must know a thing or two more than LS, as he was an OTP Katarina before turning pro
Well he also said kat would be before garen so…maybe not lmao
Plus if you are a one trick it swings both ways, you can also just have insane bias thats just not true
Poby played her earlier in the year, it looked mega useless. With Orianna, Syndra, and ADCs she just can't CS gets mega behind and deals no damage
That comment is years old
LS just yapping
Literally every OTP says their champion is trash, no matter what. That literally says nothing
L take from LS as per usual
I mean, it always bugged me that renekton is always relevant. Because he is simple, got good kit, can sustain a lane, a decent frontline but not a lot of CC capabilities. I feel like renekton has the same power level as kat, but people just often don't think of her because of how easy it is to counter her. I mean, beside the ardent censer meta, almost every pro play has atleast 3 champs that has cc.
“Renekton same power level as Kat”… ok Im done with this comment section
calling pro players lazy is actually crazy
hes right tho
Most of them are easily. They will find a build and spam it with no variation regardless of the situation - Perfect example is Grasp Ahri, built as a counter to something like Yone because it makes it easy for her to sustain because you can’t harass him out of lane as he will sustain through it.
Proplayers; Spam Grasp Ahri endlessly likes it is omega broken and then wonder why they have no damage.
Proplayers are very lazy.
She is useless, midlaner need some utilities in their kits and she doesn't provide anything other than damage, and she is super vulnerable to cc
Akali: no utility, only damage, vulnerable to cc. By your definition, she is also useless.
@ambiguousspotlightofinsani6764 Tristana is a lane stomper with good wave clear and tower siege with enough self peel in her ult, and safety in her W. She also puts consistent damage in a teamfight on a pretty safe distance since she’s a marksman by nature. She’s basically an AD version of Ziggs.
Kat on the other hand is terrible in lane, subpar wave clear, with no self peel, and needs to go into enemy team to deal damage in which case she gets locked down with cc the moment she E’s in. Then you’d think, “She’ll just go in late in a teamfight then” well then your team is basically playing a 4v5 teamfight til you play clean up and pros will definitely punish a 4v5.
Lastly, there are a plethora of champions I would rather play first than Kat which are more reliable and less risky.
@@ExeLietuvaher shroud is utility. Do you really think you did a thing? 😂
@@marianoherrera6038 "actchually her shroud is utility ☝🤓 do you really think you did a thing? 😂💯💯💯"
@@ExeLietuva No you didn't do a thing. Womp womp
This guy makes a living at having shit takes but saying them confidently.
hes right tho
Cool shoutout to katevolved. Katevolved would definitely not call kat pro player ready though 😂.
If u watch some of their costreams which you obviously didn’t, some of the games in R5 last pick mid, he said Katarina was a good pick.
People in comments yapping like they know shit about pro meta, meanwhile pros counter picking themselves and losing to shop keeper every game.
Saying that Katarina would be strong in competitive is troll given how hard she would lose lane, how easy she is to counter with CC and coordination and how useless she becomes from behind… this is why she has a garbage winrate above low elo, because anyone with half a brain cell can play into her.
She is a half decent counterpick and nothing else.
Not to downplay the serious mobility creep but god the complaints about kat if released today would be unreal. I mean she literally has infinite jumps if someone dies.
i mean she was overpowered before her rework due to that mobility and "press R to penta" gameplay, and nothing has changed xD the only reason she is not played in pro is cause they have cohesion so if she jumps in to press R she is CCed more than your sister in Alabama
Have you seen the new champ?
Bunch of low elo frogs here. If Akali and Smolder who are piss useless before lvl6/max stacks is used, why would y'all think Kata would be unplayable. "PROS" would already know what to do in the game they picked her. She's mobile cuz of her skills resets, has lowcd, can play at low econ, can deal more damage than Akali and many more. If you have a brain, you can just play around here weaknesses. People also said that Nunu would be useless at proplay, yet he won against the 1st seed of LCK in Worlds.
Nunu has teamwide cc, early gank pressure, good healing , a 2nd smite and decent engage with snowball. How does Katarina even compare to that monster of a champ?
Akali has a better lane/better matchup spread than Katarina, and tends to do better in sidelane bc she’s better than Kat in the 1v1. Shroud also gives her a level of safety Kat doesn’t really have in skirmishes. Smolder is a ranged champ and scales better than Katarina as well.
Idk why people see her as weak. Build any combination of items in the game, hit r, do 6k damage, repeat.
yes. And then get cced and be useless as frick. You have to be gold max to type this
A pro team will always reserve a cc to cancel her R. They will then layer every cc on top of her so she doesn’t get to play the game 😂.
Do you know what she needs to build any combination of items ?
You just stand in the ult for the full duration? You can use any of the millions cc abilities to cancel it or just walk/dash out.
KatEvolved our favorite PDF kat player
I thot he was the victim?
@@Kodeqx If you're referring to him being groomed by Bella while being underaged, yes, he was the victim.
Maybe before but right now she's actually trash, you get dogged early and the best Katarinas win lanes by roaming bot which is way less effective in pro play. I can't see her being useful at all, other champs do her job better. Want a reset champ? Get a viego jngl.
Edit. Katevolved said she's dogshit and he'd never pick her in pro play btw