The original series addressed them, because there _was_ a war then, against the Klingon Empire, and they talked about why there's a huge pop culture gap between the 21st century and Star Trek.
@cory6266 wait a second that doesn't make any sense either, some of the absolute greatest creations of art, literature, and moments in history are created during war. Abraham Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, the 54 of Massachusetts, the slave narratives by Frederick Douglass. This is basically proves that in the Star Trek universe, they are so jaded that not even an Intergalactic War with an alien species could create anything memorable
“That would be like us still into cave paintings” and then saying “30th century” Nah, it’s only 24th or early 25th? So relatively that’s us being into renaissance artwork. Which, come on guys, we totally still are.
Not to mention that in the Star Trek timeline, the 21st century was a.... Dark time for humanity, Warhammer 40k dark. Probably not an attractive thing to relieve in the holodeck
I feel like the "No motivation" argument is the same one I hear when I talk about a world without money, and where all our needs are met simply because it's the right thing to do. Housing, food, medicine, education, security... I seem to remember Picard remarking that people in the 24th century are motivated by achievement and personal growth. I dont think circumstances for humanity could ever be ideal, but we are capable of SO much more right this second. As far as feeding, housing, educating, and healing people. We CAN do those things for everyone through technology and mutual cooperation. We just choose not to because then the handful of people in the world with all the money and security and power wouldn't control everyone anymore. That's just my opinion, I'm hardly an authority on the matter. But I do know when I'm getting low-key fucked. And I recognize it in others.
exactly the "hardships drive humanity forward" is actually a bullshit excuse used by the wealthy to justify their greed and to convince people that redistributing wealth is a bad idea. In reality redistributing wealth would help humanity innovate because people can get a lot more creative when they're not always starving or working)
@@revanruler6404 Exactly. The hardship and bootstrap arguments are bullshit, but they should also be considered deeply offensive. If someone advocates that then their basically just a stooge of the uber rich, capitalism and those who benefit from a deeply dystopian system. If someone is going to call the world of Star Trek a dystopia, then what does that make this one?
Who for example would clean porta toilets if they didn't have to, think about any revolting job! Right now you put out a call for someone to drive around with a truck to place a hose into human waste and suck that out, so once every 30 minutes or so you are getting the smell of 10-20 peoples shit stored for a week wafting in your face, the way you get someone to do that is by raising the wage untill someone says ok the money is enough ill do it. In a society where everyone has what they want already who will do that job? Absolutely noone, but the job needs to be done on every construction site festival ect. How do you get people to do something if you can't motivate them with personal gain, you have to force some people to do it, this is why your fantasy communism fails every time. There are way too many crap jobs out there noone will ever want to do so you need to force them.
@@briannorris1548 you make a fair point, Brian. I can't refute that and while I'd hope for more specialized technological applications to reduce the need for undesirable jobs, I acknowledge it's unlikely to happen any time soon if it ever happens at all.
@@briannorris1548for the most part none of us are under the impression that we’re actually going to ever get to a utopian moneyless society. But is it REALLY so much to ask that people not be forced to starve to death out on the streets just because they don’t create profits for the professional managerial class?? Is fucking healthcare that isn’t tied to your ability to produce profit too much to ask for? Nobody is actually trying for “luxury automated gay space communism” or whatever, but to act like we just can’t do a WHOLE LOT better than we are right now is just being disingenuous.
None of their arguments landed. They just called the Federation an "evil empire". There's tons of 23rd art, music, and entertainment mentioned in the series, they just don't talk about it much because that's not what the show's about, they say "everyone dresses the same" - HELLO, UNIFORMS, everyone shown is part of Starfleet, their version of the Navy. When they go home to visit their relatives or Risa or whatever, there is no uniformity to any of the clothing. They're confusing Starfleet for the whole society. They're trying waaaaay too hard. 4:30 - Most of them???? That was 3 examples out of hundreds.
+AndroidDoctorr Thank you! I was just thinking the exact same thing. Are they only including the Earth or encompassing the whole of the Federation (because Earth actually has its own world government and is a member of the Federation, the Federation is not Earth Government - I forget which episode mentions this, but I know I heard it either in TNG or DS9). As for the arts - if you're including the whole of the Federation in your assessment of Star Trek, then I know of at least one episode off the top of my head, "Most Toys" that mentions at least several pieces of art work post 21st century, but I don't believe they were of Earth origin. And was this really about Star Trek or was it about Gene Roddenberry? Because if you want to make an honest argument for or against the Federation, you have to include at least DS9 and Voyager. Enterprise could be included if you're talking Star Trek as a whole, but otherwise thankfully it was pre-federation so it can be ignored.
Even though there were actually a few good Enterprise episodes, and they explained some things pretty well, like the whole Klingon augment virus thing explaining away the makeup.
Just a nitpicking thing, but we know that there's new stuff being made based on Star Trek Voyager... Janeway talks about how they needed to start creating their own holonovels and stuff because they're missing out on all the new stuff at home, and then later Paris is a holonovelist, so we know there's new stuff, we just don't see it because that's not what the shows are about. Also they all dress the same because the stories are essentially set in a military setting. YOU WILL NOT RUIN STAR TREK. No, sir.
Brianna E. Yes, but those weren't by Roddenberry which was the caveat in the video. A lot of the good things about TNG and the later seasons are due to the fact that they replaced Roddenberry with better writers/showrunners.
Timothy Sheff This is true, but there are examples similar to mine in TNG. I just can't think about them and don't want to go back and watch it just to find said examples.
Brianna E. Picard visits his brothers vineyard, correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember seeing a "Picards Vineyard" brand wine in the shops so that is two of their arguments beaten with one... stone. Forgive the mixed metaphor. His brother creates new wine as he is clearly not older than the Federation, and as a civilian just wears normal clothes and lives a perfectly pleasant life with his family... and slight resentment of his brothers success. Normal family stuff.
I could write a dissertation refuting each and every one of these points. They actually reference plenty of popular holonovels, various people paint and play instruments, Janeway herself sculpts with Seven. Also, those are UNIFORMS, but if you look at civilians, they do not all dress the same. Just watch DS9... when Ben joins the marquee he takes off his uniform. Jean Luc Picard wears horseback riding tac in some episodes, and civilian clothes in 'Family Ties'.
Hugo Marq - Even in JUST the TNG universe we see plenty of characters go on shore leave on planets like Risa and don't wear their uniforms. Data paints and plays violin. We see tons of culture from after the 20th century in the Star Trek TNG and TOS series.
"They all look the same, dress the same, act the same. What other society does that?" Um. All of them. Even in democracies you have fashion trends in which every one attempts to look identical to every one else. Ask any actor who has ever played Shakespeare what it's like to walk into a cafe in tights and jerkin. As for the "onesies," they are uniforms of the federation and every time they show earth, they're showing a federation compound. You don't get to see the fashion of the era because they never show the officers hanging out at a local cafe or a bar. You had to wait for the 21st century version to see that.
Gail Bull Exactly! We actually see what civilian fashion looks like a few times. Counselor Troi, first-off, is notoriously bad about not wearing her uniform on duty, although she does dress more professionally than when she's off-duty. We see several people in civvies while on leave, including Picard and Riker, as well as civilians over the course of the series, like Picard's brother. And the fashion looks as goofy and outlandish to us as the fashion of the Renaissance, which makes sense, as both are a few centuries removed from us. We mostly see more old-fashioned culture because we're mostly following Picard, who likes history. If more episodes focused on, say, Geordie, we may see more modern culture. I apologize that all of my references are to TNG, but I haven't had a chance to see TOS or Voyager yet, as I'm fairly new to the fandom.
also, Starfleet is a quasi-military hierarchical institution. They are wearing uniforms. Civilians wear weird, interesting, unique clothing all the time in the show.
My favorite point: The prime directive takes an arbitrary technological milestone and prohibits aiding a planet if they haven't achieved that milestone. That's like seeing a little girl on the side of the road but rather then helping her you say, "Wait she hasn't learned Calculus yet, we can't help her or it might disrupt her natural development."
No, it's nothing like that. Your example is horrible. The prime directive is mostly aimed at keeping technology that is too far advanced for a species out of their hands, because it's more likely to do harm then it will good. They barely know how it works because they didn't slowly progress into it. They were thrown in and that's incredibly dangerous. If you encounter a species whose technology hasn't developed beyond the Earth equivalent of medieval times, do you really want to barge in and teach them about warp drives, phaser guns and teleportation devices? No. They're not ready for that yet. Every species has to come into their own ways of technology at their own time. That way, they learn of all the risks involved and slowly but surely, learn to reduce those risks and use it more safely in the future. The Vulcans didn't contact the humans until AFTER they had discovered that humans had unlocked the power of warpdrives. Sure, it was still rudimentary and we had a lot left to learn, but it showed that we were capable of it and that, given time, we would have learned to master it on our own, eventually. At that point, we were close enough to their own technological advancements to be considered their equals.
It has nothing to do with a technological milestone, the warp drive thing is fanon. The prime directive applies to all other civilizations and is referenced as such in multiple episodes.
My understanding was that it was basically "don't contact other civilisations unless they can technically come to us first" Not much point in avoiding them when they have the capability to follow you home :P
Rohan2300 It's about non-interference in the affairs of others, unless they specifically ask for it. For example interfering in the politics of the Klingon Empire without any side within the empire asking for it would be a violation of the Prime Directive.
I agree. It's just a lie to excuse not paying people enough, not respecting workers' rights and for the super rich to get away with continuing to rob the majority. It's sad and pathetic that anyone uses this argument, even in a sketch.
To their credit, they went for 8 minutes about the horrors of Trek and never once mentioned how everyone who ever takes a teleporter is killed, torn apart on the molecular level, shunted through an annular confinement beam, and then cloned somewhere else in the vicinity with the dead particles of the vaporized body. Kudos, +Cracked!
I would if I thought he had the attention span to listen to it for more then 5 minutes and could actually follow any of it. I think he'd just squirrel off to something else before any damage could be done.
This is the reason they're wrong about Star Trek. The actual real-life reason the crews of the various starships you see in the series only care about 20th century fiction, is the writers didn't want to make up the things we'd be doing in the 21st century. The in-story reason is, the Eugenics Wars. In Star Trek, Earth went through a rough patch where genetically enhanced kings ruled the planet, fighting each other. Khan was one of them, and Dr Brashear in DS9 had many of the same advantages, he just kept it to himself because there was a lot of social stigma that went along with it. Remember in First Contact, how the camp those people were living in looked terrible? That's the result of the Eugenics Wars, humanity wasn't doing so hot. Until contact with alien life unified them. And in almost every other episode, they talk about how their drive in life is self-improvement, not this asinine search for novelty you claim.
You've got a good point there. From their perspective they look to the arts of the 20th century like we think about arts from the renaissance period. On the surface, Star Trek may seem like a silly show. But I've always seen it as one of most intelligently written shows out there.
ThisisFizban The most annoying part is, this is *Star Trek*. This isn't some minor meaningless fandom, this is the franchise that has guided technology for decades. We have tablet computers because engineers wanted to have Star Trek stuff in real life. This is a franchise that's so well-known that references to it are universal. You say "beam me up Scotty" to anyone in a first world country, they know exactly what you're talking about.
Writers didn't want to make up things we'd be doing in the 21st century? But they're obviously fine doing that for the 23rd century? That's literally all sci fi writers do: make up the future. The eugenics wars sound like they made something up for us to do in the future. What's your real point? That the writers don't want to imagine what pop culture will be in the future? You're taking the show way too seriously. The actual point was that when you have everything, you lose motivation. The question isn't whether the show provides evidence of this happen. The question is reality, and why the show is such a load of BS that you have to suspend disbelief to enjoy it. They went off on a tangent for comedic effect.
I also imagine there was a period after first contact where all humanity wanted to do was take in the galactic media. No one wanted to read the latest Earth novel when you have the best of the best of the past millennia to catch up on.
Monetary gain is a powerful motivator but ST asks, is it the only one? Is it the right one? The Prime Directive may not be perfect but do we want to be galactic conquistadors? I think the Incans, Mayans and other races might have been spared if there were a Prime Directive back then.
Picard was willing to let an entire race go extinct rather than break the PD, it was only Worf's brother going against Picard that saved him. The PD is pure bullshit. It's just a way for the Federation to lazily shirk their responsibilities. Picard himself has proven more than once that not following the PD can be constructive.
@@immortalstranger8532 Untrue. People work (to make money) because they want to be 'better' somehow. Usually better than their neighbor. If money wasn't an issue there would still be a way to be better than your neighbor, maybe through creativity, discovery, or spirituality.
@@immortalstranger8532 actually most people work to fulfill their needs, in a universe like star trek people would simply be more into art since htey wouldn't have to work. The whole "people need challenges to be happy" is something invented by the wealthy to justify keeping people in poverty, if being rich is so boring and terrible then why are the 1% not redistributing their wealth, it's because not having to ever worry about food or money is extremely freeing and allows for more time to spend on art and innovation (people don't really innovate or do anything artistic when they're starving, most scientists and artists throughout history were wealthy as fuck)
Problems arise with this potential statement. What if those around are entirely unfamiliar with the aforementioned character's name? Then it's just weird you said something that makes no sense to them.
Normandu Jean-Luc Picard, to all of that! If such people exist, then don't you think they deserve to be properly educated? Isn't that what Captain Picard would do?
Well off course everyone wears the same clothes. All shots of earth are of starfleet academy. A MILITARY academy. So naturally everyone is wearing UNIFORMS.
Just because the society has at least one spaceship on a mission of exploration doesn't mean the whole rest of society does nothing else. We have a robot rolling around exploring the surface of Mars right now, so according to the reasoning used in this video, all of us on Earth are completely bored and nobody is doing anything excepting looking at pictures sent back from the Curiosity Rover.
+yu nofun Nope. You're thinking about Starfleet, not the Federation. Starfleet is the exploration branch, basically what the military becomes in a pacifist society. The Federation is as diverse a society as ours, even more so since it comprises thousands of alien worlds, but we don't see much of this aspect because the series are centered around space and exploration, that's all.
The most horrifying thing to me about the Star Trek universe is the casual abundance of basically omnipotent beings (the Q, Nagilum, Douwd, Edo God, etc) with the ability to kill billions with a thought (and these are just from TNG); it's a miracle humanity hasn't been wiped out by one of these guys yet.
You're just grasping here. You assume they're bored. You assume there's totalitarian stuff happening. There's no proof of any of that. You're just imagining how it could go wrong, not finding actual flaws.
>.> Are they even trying? "Where's the new works?" Roddenberry clearly noted that he did not want to speculate on the advancements of earths musics and entertainment too much because he knew that he was deficient in musical theory. He did, however, note things like people writing holonovels and pursuing new works of music without saying what they were. Regarding the exploration part, people have been doing that since africa. To explore is our natural instinct. To gain the knowledge is our motivation. To meet others is our goal. Granted in the past we've been a bit of a dick about that. But, let's face it, that's like saying we go out into space aboard the ISS because we are bored. It ignores the gains we make as a result of space exploration. "Everyone dresses the same" They're in a quasi military order. Would you call the army or the navy or the marines and air force dystopian just for having uniforms?
yeah that outfit is still the great mystery of Star Trek Generations, I honestly wonder if it's an easter egg spoof of Zap Branigan's outfit from futurama
(sorry its late but...) um, futurama wasnt around when the next gen was made. if anything, zap branigan's uniform is a take on the 'skant' (iirc that is what it was called, i think that is what the old catalogues called the patern for it when you wanted to order them) i expect the only reason we see males wearing it in farpoint was to remind us that federation folks got past body issues so a male in a miniskirt was nothing to be surprised about, and we never realy saw them again after that, outside of conventions lol
TOS treated the Prime Directive as a guideline with very obvious exceptions. TNG, on the other hand, treated the Prime Directive like theocratic dogma with no shades of grey.
Until it was treated like it had shades of grey out of necessity. :D Picard was a bit of a hard ass about that directive. More so than the rest of the crew who seemed open to exceptions.
Arnold Cranium The best part about Sisko being the commander of a space station in neutral territory is that the Prime Directive does not apply to what happens on DS9.
+BigFatCock I know right? That just bugged me. It is the FLAGSHIP, yes, but a warship? It is designed for peacekeeping, it would be like calling a police car a "War Wagon"
Two things 1. They only said why some things were strange not bad 2. They assumed that Star Trek was a complete universe (e.g. Explanations like 'they didn't have time in the show' and so on were invalid but could only dispute that final point by flat out ignoring it and claiming that the writer/s had ulterior motives. Also for the point about everyone wearing the same clothes that's wrong the clip was from star fleet academy which is a military base so they would have uniforms on.
Not true. People are creative when they dont have to worry about working to live. The best scientists didnt need to work. Without money we would have more scientists and artists. The universe is not boring guys. I would give everything to discover even an asteroid. And most people would love to have such technology. This society is horrible full of discrimination and injustice. 80% of the humans dont have access to basic goods like fresh water and food. Sorry guys but Star Trek society is a paradise compared to ours.
+mlazos Human nature being what it is , I rather think we would have more idle holodeck - addicted layabouts than artists & scientists. Most people are not artists & scientists anyway , what do you think they'd do to fill their time? Star Trek is actually more about how it could be , not how it might actually be.
+subliteral now you discriminate. Do you have a proof of what you say? I totally believe people can be everything they want, and neither you, nor me, should decide for others. If people had the opportunity to express their artistic side, they would. Even everyday things can become art. If we were free to try and decide what we want to do, then you would discover that every person has a scientist and artist side. Stop discriminating and stop deciding for others. A future society should be fair and give everyone an equal chance.
+mlazos I see what you are saying but, I'm think it take longer than 300 years to turn peoples attitude to the greater good. I've had my 23 year old stepson living in my house didn't didn't work for almost a year while me and my wife feed and clothed him and he never tried one to better his life. Now you may say that's only one example but. He had at least 10 friends who lived the same way. Plus each one of those had even more like them. I just don't hold out to much hope for the utopia from Star Trek.
+Kenneth Hildebrand you need education. The society spends billions on war, and crap defence, billions to kill each other just because the people who decide are psychopaths and sociopaths. We need more money for education. You cant expect a young man without any kind of good influence from the society to do perfect. If we stop building nuclear war heads in the world and we stop so e companies from controlling the public opinion, the education will be a lot better thus better behaviour, people and society. Its not we dont have enough its because we waste them on killing each other. We have one international space station and more than 15,000 nuclear missiles ready to kill each other. I suggest we kick out the psychos from the captainship, and we choose people with compassion and empathy. If you see the leaders and councils feel nothing for the dead and their families during a war. So to conclude, its not that your stepson is a jerk and destroys the society, its because no education
+Kenneth Hildebrand democracy to work we need informed educated citizens. School is not just to give knowledge. Is there to build personalities and create culture. With bad education you get bad society and dictatorship. So pick your side. Do you want to be used by those who try to control the society? Or you prefer education, open mind, free spirit and human rights? Wise is someone who doesnt need written laws to function in a society but is doung because he knows its the right thing to do.
There are a lot of studies behind worker motivation out there examining reward systems. They were done to find out why generation Y has some of the highest production rates (After accounting for computer increases); yet has the some of the lowest consecutive participation rates in specific fields (Our generation tends to work, then take long breaks). You guys want to know a startling finding? People who are free to express personal interest in work; and can display that work to others? Are far more productive than people who are doing the work in order to be rewarded for a resource. A famous example of this is Wikipedia, or wikis in general. There are enormous amounts of work poured into them; by people who all volunteers. It's actually giving a resurgence to Marx's free associative theories. In other words; it really does seem when people have everything they want? They begin to just work on stuff they like; and they are far more productive when doing that. I know it seems completely counter intuitive, but read up on it.
not sure why you say its completely counter intuitive - it seems quite an opposite. people do their best work when they are into it (if you love your job youl never have to work a day in your life) and not when they are forced to do it by either societal pressure(communists) or desire to eat and chase all mighty dollar(capitalists). if all people needs were completely met for free - sure a lot of people would just do nothing but majority would pursue whatever field they find fascinating and their output would be ten times more than enough to balance out the veggies. ive lived in both Communist as well as Capitalist countries and both have pluses but neither system is perfect(and in both cases imperfection is caused by a tiny percent of populace that ruins it for the rest. but there is a perfect system a hybrid if you will and one of the rewards of that system would be an elimination of currency(aka no money-no problem). unfortunately the biggest obstical to that system would be greed and power and peoples unwillingness to give up either(yet again the tiny percent of populace will do evything in their power to prevent losing any of it)
The problem with that is, not everything (really, almost everything) that people like to do to express themselves, is something they can be paid for, because it doesn't bring IN money that can then be paid TO them. And a lot of necessary jobs don't really have opportunity for self expression, but they still need to be done.
@@cory6266 Yeah. One of my friends is super anti-capitalist, but he also would never work as a plumber, a delivery man, garbage man, cashier, etc, because he doesn't find those jobs enjoyable. But no one does. That's the point. Until we have a way to automate jobs no one wants to do, there needs to be a reward for doing them, and that means some degree of market economy.
@@Demmrir That's not true, there's no need for a market economy for those. Sure, most of those jobs are things people wouldn't do by choice, but the way they are handled in a market economy is appalling. Most of them are badly paid and overworked and for essential jobs, those who do them are generally looked down upon. Imagine instead that these jobs were paid better to account for their unpleasantness, and were only part time, so allowed those who did them greater freedom to do what they're truly passionate about in their free time. Imagine they also received prestige equal to the sacrifice that someone makes by taking on a role essential to society but generally considered dull or unpleasant. Imagine also that these jobs were considered a social responsibility as part of a community built on solidarity and essential roles and time spent on them was divided equally and democratically. These are things all achievable today, and most of them ARE practiced today in different countries or communities. I don't know you or your "super anti-capitalist friend", but his view could be a very middle class take on anti-capitalism or it could be a perfectly justified criticism of the way capitalist society and corporations handle these crucial jobs, paired with his own (probably justified) lack of interest in them. Obviously if drudgery could be automated that would be better, but market economies demonstrably force people to do these jobs in horrific conditions for horrific wages or extended periods without breaks or days off. In fact the examples of jobs you gave barely scratch the surface. There are far better ways.
The bit where they say "they all wear those onesies" while showing...the Starfleet Academy. A military institution where everyone is in uniform. You're literally bitching about people wearing a uniform on a military base. Actually, All of your arguments are wrong, but...that one's the worst.
1) There are plenty examples of 23rd century art and the reason there is nothing more "recent" is that in their time line diverges starts early and the 21st century is shaped by bombing ourself back to the stone age. 2) You contradict your own logic. 2.1 The events seen in the show can not represent normal life in 23rd century, because normal life in general is boring and without plot structure. 2.2 first you claim they have unquestioned blind faith in their system and later point out that they are repeatedly disobeying the prime directive - choose one 3) Scientology is a dangerous cult with a international secret agency, who abduct, blackmail, torture and murder people. How is that the same as a fandom?? 4) 3:56 This entire argument is basically "They have a different society, but no one wants to life as we do", which is egocentric. You way to live your life is shaped by the way we are socialized. Questioning the status quo is not omnipresent in any society and the there are instances in Star Trek where it happens (for example, see 2.2) 4.1 Further more, the examples you point to have mostly one common point which is best described by the word of the year 2016 post-truth, thanks Trump
No, that was Roddenberry alternate lounge mix RB4 aka sousaphone day. If they'd got to the guest lyrics by King Emperor Tomato Ketchup you'd be all for it.
+shadowclock13 They do, but you have to be human to really register them. However, if you fill out form 456-983-a-6b you will be issued 1 (one) Human Humor Manual which explains all of their bizarre and clearly dysfunctional human mental processes including The Joke, Irony, Sarcasm and the various forms of Fandom. You may apply at any learning center. Live long and prosper.
Lots of arguments have been addressed by other commenters, so I'll just look at one. Dan says that they have no motivation to do anything because of their technology. But the series is all about them doing things even though they don't have to; yes, they could sit on Earth with their replicators and holodecks and do nothing real with their lives, but instead they go out into space to explore the galaxy, discover and connect with new worlds and peoples, and do all the good they can (and are willing to risk their lives to do so). In other words, they haven't just evolved technologically, they've evolved morally.
I think the point was.... THEY ARE BORED. Which is why they do anything. In fact the only reason why the have the enterprise and star fleet is to RELIEVE their sense of boredom. Go find new worlds and cultures that still do cool shit and come back and tell us about it. Oh wait your good at your job? Well can't have you around too long, just keep going to this probably dangerous part of space and this probably dangerous part of space until your either dead or found new shiny shit to gawk at. There not a moral society. There are a society of sheltered kids leaving their basements because they topped all the leader boards of call of duty.
But the society doesn't exclusively consist of Star Fleet and exploration. That's only part of what they do. They set up new colonies, explore and develop a huge variety of scientific research and technologies, they do have cultural and artistic development (despite what the After Hours crew say here), and interplanetary relations. They're not sheltered, they're putting themselves out in the galaxy in virtually every way possible. If it was exclusively a matter of being bored, they could amuse themselves to no end on the holodeck without ever making real world contributions, so it's got to be more than that. They don't deliberately put their ships in unnecessary danger; all risks made are fair and acceptable. Additionally, before joining Star Fleet, people are vigorously tested in various ways so that they understand the risks of the position and prove that they can cope with them. P.S. "There are a society..." There are? Really? I'm not really a grammar nazi, but come on. That's just terrible.
***** It's a little off topic of what I was saying, but I'll play devil's advocate. When something's wrong with the power source, every little bit helps. They have terraformed their own solar system as well as other colonies (ex. they've mentioned the Jupiter colony several times). Force fields seem to tap into the ship's energy and probably require a power source too big to carry for personal force fields. From what I've seen, their nanotech isn't yet sophisticated enough for use in the way you're describing; it's sometimes used by doctors in sick bay, but is too difficult to control and maintain for use in the field. Their ships aren't used for war, they're used for exploration. True, this could also be done by robotic ship, but it would be more difficult to maintain and their are several things the crew does, especially in contacting other civilizations that couldn't be done by robots (at least, not well); furthermore, I think they prefer to go out themselves rather than separating themselves from the rest of the galaxy the way they would be doing with robots (what's the point in exploring the galaxy if you're not there for it). Penetrating the ship isn't the problem for them, it's penetrating enemy shields (something that would be difficult to do with such a small amount of energy in a tiny diameter beam); they need to take out shields before they can use the transporter, plus they'd have to lower their own shields leaving themselves defenceless; it's better to just use their weapons systems. I'll admit, I'm a little confused on what they can and can't replicate/how it works so I won't go into it. Most of the hacking of starships I've seen seems to be done by members of the crew of that ship, meaning they have access codes allowing them to do this. Since they wouldn't have access codes to the ships they're fighting, it would be far more difficult; either way, it still seems faster to destroy ships with their weapons systems. For your last point, I think it's more of a tv ratings issue than anything else. Plus, the holodecks can be accessed by anyone. It would be kinda awkward for someone to check who's using the holodeck for what and seeing that :p
darthcarnage12 By saying that they'd prefer to go out themselves is basically admitting they're doing it because they're bored, I mean Data has all the charm and ability of a human and superior intelligence, yet the federation don't send a crew of robots like him, who can be rendered immortal with a simple wifi connection, they send living, breathing, fragile humans. Why? Because they're bored.
First, Data is an android and not a robot. He is also unique and has yet to be replicated. Second, he doesn't really have the charm of a human, though he progresses as the series moves on ;) Third, Data (along with any future androids that may be created in the future) are living beings and shouldn't be treated like slaves to do the bidding of humans (this was the subject of a really good episode). Fourth, Data is an unemotional being. Do you think it would be a good, responsible idea for Star Fleet to send and army of emotionless, independently thinking beings out into the galaxy with their most advanced weapons and transportation technology? Finally, I've already addressed how it must be more than boredom that drives them in a previous comment, so I'm not going to repeat myself.
The few glimpses we get of life outside the federation do not reveal everything to be perfect. The 'everyone on earth wears the same thing' comment was supported by a shot of the starfleet academy. For a look at how they live, look at picards' brother's family. Or the guys who don't want to leave the amazon women planet. No, not everyone wears the same thing. Some people do not have replicators, but could if they wanted to. The people that were found chilling in cryogenic stasis from the twenty first century that had to adjust to the twenty fourth, in the episode 'the neutral zone', had different challenges to overcome. Some lawyer had a hard time with the no money thing. In the books, one becomes a singer (like he was in the past), the housewife becomes a counselor for the time displaced, and the lawyer becomes an ambassador. The whole point of that episode is to attempt to describe the star trek utopia.
According to the maps of the Federation you can see in the background in a few episodes and context clues in various episodes, the Federation is a buffer state between at least 7 larger and much more militarized and aggressive emipres (Andorians Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, Tholians, Borg). If the Federation didn't exist they'd constantly be at war with EACH OTHER. All Federation ships are packed full of bleeding-edge alien technology and have 2 major design traits - speed and sensors. The so-called "Exploratory and Humanitarian Armada" is just a cover story for an entire military based on Cold War diplomacy and early detection and interception of military threats with overwhelming firepower. And, after the invention of the genesis device and phased cloaking, the Federation possesses a WMD capacity unmatched in the region. Looked at that way, the Federation is basically Isreal.
@@Fluffykeith -- and no country on earth has used nuclear weapons in anger since the second world war. The mere existence of nuclear stockpiles has changed war and geopolitics completely. At least, until the Russian or American President is enough of an idiot to use a nuclear weapon in a pre-emtive strike. Phase cloak and the genesis device create the same paradigm is the ballistic missile submarine. Only even more destructive and even harder to detect.
Grizabeebles And both would have been awesome against something like The Borg. Except there’s no sign of either. And the Dominion certainly weren’t intimidated or discouraged by the possibility of a Genesis weapon being used against them....and it’s hard to argue that they wouldn’t have known of their existence
@@Fluffykeith -- The Israelis haven't deployed any nukes either. In fact, Israel's policy of "deliberate official ambiguity" is very likely the same line the Federation would take. Starfleet certainly has had enough "Rogue Admirals" over the years that there's definitely a POSSIBILITY of phase-cloaked Genesis silos hidden all over the quadrant. And the mere possibility is enough to deter most sane species from attempting to DESTROY the Federation. And, if the Federation had a longstanding policy of economic warfare, giving foreign armies safe passage and trading a few colonies for peace (see: Cardassian Wars) then there is no need for the other empires to fight a full-scale war with the Federaton and risk Mutually Assured Destruction. They can always 'negotiate' some kind of non-military solution. Then there's the whole Time Travel angle that goes all the way back to TOS. Time Travel is the ultimate weapon of mass destruction and almost every warp-capable ship can do it.
They spend their time discovering new peoples, planets, and species. We do that now; at least we try. There's always more out there to learn and see. That on its own is motivating.
Humans are inherently explorers, which in itself I feel is the good part of the star trek universe.. But the earth society is straight Orwellian, a psudo-utopia, I would love to be on a ship, but hate to be living on the earth at the time.. Except for hoverboards.. They HAVE to have hoverboards by then... right?
Gary Sanders I'd imagine so, what with flying cars and using antigrav platforms for something as simple as moving crates and such around. And really, we never actually see much of 24th century Earth; hell, I don't think they ever show more than San Francisco.
Rodney Wollam Well if it appears 'perfect' on the outside.. Then the society is just better at 'preventing' crime.. Think 0 privacy and 100% thought police..
I seem to recall he painted Impressionist style, which is old NOW, not just 400 years from now, and the orchestra was doing old music. Riker plays old jazz. The only thing new is Pareese's Squares, and we never see that played, only the damage to Will or Wesley.
paul coy - Um, there were tons of episodes featuring art and such, even new art, like holonovels... holonovels don't even exist yet, but they do in Star Trek... They reference great composers from OTHER CULTURES and mention Klingon Opera, and Vulcan Music such as 'Oh Starless Night' (a funeral song), and on and on and on... There is even one episode where a planet tried to kidnap the children because they were sterile, and one of the children they were grooming to be a sculpture and the other a musician. Voyager takes place at the same time as TNG, and the Doctor becomes a 'holonovelist'.
It funny but with all the wrong things being said in this video, them calling the Enterprise "a warship" bothers me the most. While it does have weapons to defend itself it's not for war. Warships wouldn't carry children on them like the Enterprise does.
***** I was replying to a previous comment that it can't be a warship due to civilian presence. I'm saying in a dystopia, civilians would absolutely be found on a warship.
Yup, not a warship... It was the federation's flagship and was often sent on diplomacy or exploration or science missions... the original Star Trek did not have children on the ship , and Picard didn't like having children on his ship but only because he didn't like children... the topic of having children in space was a big one especially for the Next Generation. but to make a long story short having children on the Enterprise shows how far Humanity actually has grown it's positive not negative. crewman and crew women often did better having their families with them in space... even though everyone acknowledged the danger present but being in space was dangerous. inhumanity living in an enlightened era would realize that the family unit is the most important.
+Akin Khoo Well, many Americans get their media from the internet now, we have that here bro. CNN and all that, yeah they have viewership and an agenda they push on them, but those of us who don't buy into big media have a wide array of news outlets available where we get the same presentation the rest of the world does.
+Akin Khoo Yep, the USA is totally like that, person who doesn't live in the USA and is judging purely by popular media. Not one American steps out of line or disagrees and protests the actions of the status quo. Why, just the other day I was walking down the street marveling at how everyone was singing the Star-Spangled Banner in unison. It was truly a sight to behold.
+gamemaster613 People in general are sure their way of life and society is the right one so long as it provides them with what they think they need. If not, they would immigrate, but even then they general think their personal way of life is the right one. They can have room for doubt, but they probably also have faith that this doubt is wrong. As the description of nationalism goes. Nationalism: the believe your country is the best, because you're born in it
+gamemaster613 We Americans also have blind faith in our way of life. Our stupid consumer culture is jaded and based on materialism. We passively accept our high level of social stratification and inequality, even though it gives rich people ridiculous access to resources we can't afford and to power we don't have since money equals power. Somehow the rest of us don't feel oppressed by this unfair system. Odd and illogical.
+gamemaster613 Also, I'm pretty sure the wealthy ruling class in our society decided that the best way to control us is by keeping us ignorant and distracted. Even the social issues in our politics distract from the big issues like corporate welfare, lobbying, and the corruption of the federal reserve system. The fact that wealthy people in America get their way by stepping on the poor people.
the true horrifying thing about Star Trek is how everyone in that society have already died. At some point in the prehistory of the show every character stepped into their first teleporter and by that unintentionaly commited suicide. They ripped their bodies into atoms send those through space and then put them back togheter. No human could survive that. Teleporters are pretty much cloning machines with the exception that it recycles the material that the original body was made of.
if they have teleporters and Replicators, then no one would die, what you would do is, every time you teleport, keep a computer backup of it, then if you die, zap the dead body with the teleporter and hit the restore button to put you back to the last version of yourself that teleported while still alive.
I thought only the pattern is transfered but new matter is used each time? I know Riker was doubled once so at least one of him wasn't the original material.
@@davidpaz9389 thats more of a Star fleet shipboard security thing. if you serve on a starfleet ship you get a com badge (in the tng era) which broadcasts your location, so if you need an emergency beam or need to be found for security reasons you can, unless you take off the badge. but thats starfleet, regular federation society is depicted differently
At 4:25 Katie says 'Why is it every Federation Admiral -- in TNG especially -- is either evil, incompetent, or hosting a space slug'. Video proceeds to use video clips of two CAPTAINS, not admirals (Captain Walker, Captain Scott) as the 'evil' and 'incompetent' -- Captains who were trying to stop a foothold situation in 'Conspiracy', and COMMANDER Remmic had the space slug. Come on, guys. There are evil and incompetent admirals in TNG -- don't be lazy, get the videos of the actual incompetent admirals.
+Maddy James * facepalm * I can't believe I didn't notice that! Two the "examples" were characters that had only 4 pips, which designates the rank of Captain!
Normandu Yes, because I work in media and cultural studies. They're already spending the time to get the videos anyway -- if they'd spent an extra hour researching to make sure they were the right videos, it would be a lot less work. If Cracked weren't so concerned about chucking out quantity of material and instead used the extra time to research their own stuff a little more for quality material, maybe the videos wouldn't be so terrible.
Wait, so the argument is that Star Trek's society has become stifled and uncreative because there's supposedly no new tv shows to watch? I guess all of human acheivement and creativity is limited to tv shows to our generation? Eff the fact that the Star Trek society produced a galaxy class star ship capable of traversing across the galaxy, replicating items, transporting matter through energy, and creating matter in the holodeck. No sign of creativity in this society, nope. Keep moving... ::Picard face palm::
+moonlitegram The argument is more about how Star Trek characters rely on fiction of the past (rather than their own present time). This is true in DS9 and Voyager as well.
moonlitegram Well no, Michael Swaim makes the same point you do. The others point out that popular culture in general (at least on Earth) seems to disappear from about the 1970's to the 2370's. And why are Star Trek characters so obsessed with popular culture of the early to mid-20th century? Bashir with James Bond, Voyager with it's Flash Gordon knock-off, etc. It's an odd enough omission that the After Hours guys felt a need to comment about it.
That Gene-only thing doesn't really work for TNG because while he had the initial vision, it was other people who really shaped that show to become what it was, Berman included. The first three seasons, if you can stand to sit through the first, show a remarkable transition away form Gene's original vision to the visions of others. Also - Deep Space 9 is awesome. Society has evolved and will constantly be tested, who knows the outcome > Humans have evolved, and who cares about the tests, because they always pass. Like Luca with SW - Gene was good about coming up with the ideas, but his ideas were much better once filtered and enhanced by other talent. Luca-only SW sucks, and Gene-only ST also sucks.
Just looking at depictions of Earth in the films Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, Star Trek (2009), and Star Trek Into Darkness all depict that humanity still has a vibrant and thriving culture where excitement is not lacking at all. This is even expressed in the original series in dialogue.
Yeah, its like we're seeing the equivalent of life on a naval vessel where we're not privy to most of the officer's or crew's personal time, then complaining that the US doesn't have a thriving arts scene.
These arguments are weak... which makes them less funny. 1) They aren't going to play pretend that they are in space doing Sci-fi things while they are busy in space doing Sci-Fi things every day... and even then, on VOYAGER, Tom Paris has Flash Gordon style Sci-Fi adventures. Instead, as an escape, they play around with how life was like before modern technology... just like how we have Renaissance Fairs, Civil War Reenactments and so forth. 2) Not everyone dresses the same. What lame argument is that? Everyone in Star Fleet has a uniform... like any normal military unit. 3) They don't all have blind faith in their society. The human conflict is what most of the stories are about. Especially the best episodes. It is as though you don't even watch the show. Star Trek has its flaws. Lots of them. This didn't really touch on much of any.
Add in the enterprise was actually just a Science Vessel, and that much of our knowledge of history was lost after the third world war. a third world war that nearly destroyed our entire planet might make us more interested in less aggressive pursuits. and I agree bitching about the holodeck thing, do they think a NASCAR driver just plays NASCAR video games?
+Mega Mawile The Enterprise was not just a science vessel, it was a multi-role ship. It was used for diplomatic missions, scientific exploration, deep space exploration, military operations, and more. The U.S.S. Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) was the flagship, and as such was equipped to handle any mission. IIRC, other Galaxy class ships weren't configured the same as the Enterprise... They were equipped as Military/Defensive heavy cruisers, as the Federation had other ships specifically designed for Science based missions.
The Ranter What I was saying is, it was a science based vessel. It had defensive systems, yes, but Star Fleet also had ACTUAL Full on military vessels. So yeah, we're on the same page, sorry I was not clear D: Star Fleet being more for efficiency shares similar designs (Which I like) leaving their ships very modular which is why most would not realize that they have different ships for different purposes.
+Mega Mawile Until they encountered the Borg, no, Starfleet did not have pure military designs - all Starfleet (one word) vessels were designed to be multipurpose to varying degrees (cruiser-classes like the Constitution, Excelsior and Galaxy were all highly combat-capable for their times, but exploration and science were an equal part of the design philosophy; contrast with the Oberth, which had token weapons and was a pure science vessel). The Defiant was the first actual warship design, and even then it was officially designated an escort vessel rather than a warship.
pali1d While true, they included Next Gen, so the point stands against their point. As does your point against them. Having your Scientists team up with Military, and your Ambassadors team up with military is really nothing new. Especially if your military is kept just as equal as diplomacy and science.
I find your view of the future to be rather limited. Gene Rodenberry envisioned a future where money and wealth were no longer the driving force for society. Exploration, knowledge, and understanding were their own rewards. Did people enjoy recreating literature and battles on the holodeck from stories in the past? Yea, and why not? You can attribute it to two things. One, personal taste and two, the fact that the audience watching it would be able to make a connection. I could go on and on, but to each their own. I am a nerd, and love star trek. Enough said.
The problem with Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future is that the Federation is a dull politically correct empty Mary Suetopia which, in the words of Edgar Friendly (the character Denis Leary played in Demolition Man), is a forty seven year old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas drinking a banana-broccoli shake singing "I'm an Oscar Myer Wiener".
also communisim, am i the oy one who boticed that? We never once see any one pay for anything, credits are only used for transactions with other species. and the Federation controls the economy, transportation, and communication. It's literally communisim
Ethan Murray Depends on what the basis for your point of view is. If you consider human history, and what communism is, there has technically not been a single true communist nation... well, ever. Plenty of nations are labeled as such, but they are either more democratic, socialist, fascist, or dictatorships. In the case of Star Trek, the Federation is technically a democracy as the Federation has an elected president, and a Federation council. Not saying you are not wrong, but you are also not completely correct.
Who doesn't like playing an RPG VR game with your friends. The holodeck provided this in the best possible way. Also a lot of people write holonovels which is like writing a game with a plot. On Voyager it was one of the things the crew got into.
The arguments that you used for Star Trek were pretty poor. I probably could have come up with better ones. For instance, the whole premise of the franchise is "to boldly go where no one has gone before". It is humanity's curiosity for exploration which is what fueled the Enterprise's adventures. People 200 years ago were doing the same thing, but there frontier was either land or water, whereas is Star Trek, space is there frontier, "the final frontier". I also believe that in Star Trek: First Contact the issue of no currency did emerge. It was answered quite well by Picard who said "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." So a civilization without currency could very well function.
Communism is a post-class society without a state. "All money is handled and controlled by the government" is a total bastardisation of what communism (and/or socialism) is. Go and read yourself some Marx -- not that you will, but that's where you'd find something less insipid.
***** ...you're thinking of anarcho-communism, or anarchy. Communism still has a state apparatus. It's also not classless, technically. The permanent revolution is a defense of the working class' control of the means of production, but there is still class diversity. If we're going to be Marx nerds about it, I mean.
TheSoulHarvester You're mistaking socialism with communism. Socialism is a state of workers' power, it is a class society. Communism is a post-state post-class mode. Do not mistake the "end" of history (communism) with the political parties or ideologies of communists or communism. I can be as communist as I like and still live in a capitalist society. If there's a state, there's class struggle, there's class control. That's not communism. That's, dependent on who is in power, either capitalism (bourgeois control) or socialism (workers' control), or something else. It's not, however, communism. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state
Yes ... DS9, and even Voyager, were much more honest than the Roddenberry-lala-land that was the naiveté which was the Original Series and early Next Generation (i.e. first 2 seasons). Sorry, it's just brutally true ...
Krshwunk it was never Naivete it was what Roddenberry hoped the future would be, it was meant as a hopeful inspiration, but of course the typical movie going audience can't handle that, they need to be reminded everyday how their shit, their world is shit and basically always will be shit, that was his naivete.
MAnnaconduit1 No, audiences don't need "to be reminded how they're shit." What a low view of humanity you have. They don't need to be fed an overly naive vision of the future either. Rather, they should be given a story that deals with serious problems which are then heroically overcome (DS9, Voyager, and I would say the latter part of TNG are like that ... the Original Series and early TNG insist too much that the world of the Federation has attained unrealistic perfection ... it's naive).
MAnnaconduit1 If things seem too good, it breaks suspension of disbelief. That's not people needing to feel terrible, that's just people not being fully engaged with the work - in which case, the fault lies with the work. Incidentally, I very much like NG and OS. But DS9 is just so much better. Er well, eventually at least.
This ancient video pisses me off, because none of these people have possibly watched the shows. All of these things are addressed! No art? They spend a stupid amount of time talking about art and artists. No war or progress? Even if you exclude half the canon (later TNG and DS9) because the original creator was dying there were multiple serious wars and conflicts, and the technology was clearly progressing. Star Trek's major worlds aren't a sad dystopia where there's nothing left to do, but places where we are all free from subsistence needs, to improve yourself and do something new and interesting, or just enjoy life how you please. Or if you need a material *challenge* just become a colonist, settling new worlds 'with your own two hands' and whatever sort of system you want to use. I know these aren't supposed to be well-reasoned and rebuttal-proof arguments... but could they at least have had one that wasn't laughably ignorant?
Agreed. This is the first After Hours video I felt wasn't well-made or even funny. They clearly did little to no research, and every argument they made is easily rebutted.
I know! It bothered me so much that the image they showed of "everyone wearing those stupid onesies" was an image of the academy. I remember at least one example of Picard meeting a long lost lady love in an earth cafe and everyone was wearing weird futuristic pastel outfits. Not to mention all the times Diana Troy gets creative with her uniform.
bad argument, the reason there are only stories from the past is because the show is more a reflection of our own current society than the future. besides cant really have depictions of great future fiction before it has been written, it would lack substance if you pretended to and be unrelatable to the 21st century audeience
Furthermore, they rarely showed any stories from now or the recent past because the TV show itself couldn't get/wouldn't pay for the rights. The number one things they show on the holodeck, more than anything else? Shakespeare and Sherlock Holms, AKA Public Domain works.
edenscancer - Yeah, it's like they were bored and had no real content so they just sat around and bullshitted out this episode. Some of their statements were downright ridiculous, like claiming they all act alike and do what they're told. Kirk regularly followed his own instincts even when it put him in front of a Tribunal, and Spock made his own decisions.
I agree with this, I haven't watched many episodes off this but the others I have watched seem to use more facts in them. Here, however, they are just saying complete bullsh*t. Like when they are talking about the fact that nothing was made after the 20th century, this only appeared so in the show because if they did show/play anything newer, they would have to pay royalties. Most of the music that they used in the show, not the stuff that the composers wrote for the atmosphere, was in the public domain and free to use.
every one of these arguments are extremely valid and you are all super nerds for defending this super shitty horrible show star trek sucks and the enterprise is an evil dictatorship its like america they give them just enough to feel like they are helping them when they are really just crippling them
I’m going to miss this show. I realized that Cracked is no more about a week ago and since then, that fact pops into my head and I get a little bummed out. I really hope they work something out where, even if it’s not called After Hours, these 4 still meet up and make a episode occasionally.
Micheal tried to restart the format at a website called Little Beans, but that blew up, too. Katie makes arty stuff and is on Instagram. Dan writes for a show. Soren dematerialized and rejoined his people in the Ether. They all do stuff, just not this, unfortunately.
That may or may not be true but they specified "Original Series" and "The Next Generation". No one would have been able to use it in the argument anyway.
Especially in that one of the entire points of the series was tackling the problems in the Federation's society head-on. Just listen to anything Eddington says in the series. DS9's by far my favourite Trek series.
dragoniguana While there were some good eps in DS9, it became really bad eventually. I stopped watching around the time lieutenant Dax was dating Worf and there were eps about how glad she was he was 'such a loving father.'
Nah, in my opinion, it was great throughout. Dax and Worf were good together (at the very least least, a hell of a lot better than Troi and Worf). It got really good around season three, and just didn't stop being awesome. The Dominion War arc in particular was incredible. But I do know DS9 certainly isn't for everyone. Definitely not your typical Star Trek.
Don't get me wrong, I remember some fantastic eps from DS9; but I really didn't like the soap opera it turned into. I really didn't watch it in order to see love and romance, there's enough stuff on TV with that.
I've always seen Troi as the Political Officer myself - ensuring no one thinks the wrong things. Add to that all the Federation people with power and influence are military officers... Can't be unseen.
Soren's final argument comparing Q's approval of Picard and the Federation to how cult leader's view their cults would only make sense if Picard and the rest of the Enterprise were lying about Q, which they aren't,
It doesn't matter, Q is literally a force within the show that thinks Picard and the rest of the Federation is the shit. We don't take North Korea's statements about their dictators being firebreathing demigods seriously because they are provably untrue, but Q is real within the show. So like Swaim said, God is cool with it.
KingofSting19 But I bet North Koreans might take their dictators being firebreathing demigods seriously. Has anyone else not in the Federation actually encountered Q?
There is an episode where Q hides on the Enterprise from another alien race because they want to kill him for something crappy he did. He was a jerk to everyone.
I get that this is a joke, but the lack of understanding of Star Trek lore presented in this is.... so, so depressing. There's a reason why mankind is that way, you ignored the fact that WW3 and the super soldier wars almost destroyed humanity
@@vaIe_ excusing ignorance of a subject they made a choice to cover by name calling, classic internet. Perhaps they should review things they're knowledgeable on instead of hoping their ignorance.... because entertainment. Smh
@@vaIe_ It's not "some stuff," it's well known Star Trek history that even most casual viewers are at least somewhat aware of, because Star Trek's arguably most infamous villain, is one of those genetic superman. _KHAAAAAAAAAN!_ _distant echo_ _khaaaaaaaan!_
Well that was frustrating to watch. The show is about exploration, and someone should clue in these four about that because it clears up a lot of their misconceptions. Also, humanity is not portrayed as perfect constantly throughout the series, and is stated over and over as striving to be better. How anyone could watch it and not know that is mind boggling. Calling the universe of the show 'horrifying' is literally calling our real universe horrifying because the federation is just NASA in the future. The utopia theme comes from our first contact being with the vulcans and humans of the ST universe want to be more like them because they seem to have shit figured out.....like long distance space travel, for one thing.
Holly Totallyarealname I thought the fact that Star Trek was secretly horrifying was common knowledge by this point. I never saw it coming from the Federation (though I'm sure there's probably some corruption in the system), the horror came from the horrifying stuff they would very often come across. Stuff like the Borg, the many reality-breaking anomalies, the bizarre alien beings that would butcher and toy with the crew due to simple misunderstanding or curiosity, the more-mundane alien races who would do that exact thing because of war or necessity, the numerous alien afflictions and plagues, and even stuff that boarders on the paranormal.
So their main point to say star trek is a bored universe is that everyone dresses the same and acts the same. Well the only people we really get to see are part of a military, so no surprise everyones wearing the same uniform. And if everyone acted the same there would be no different characters (which if that was the case, it wouldnt be as successful as it was.)
+Eamonn Which is why they conveniently ignored it. I don't think DS9 dealt with it as well as they should have... in a lot of cases... But DS9 is, IMHO, still the most entertaining and thought-provoking Star Trek series to date. I just hate what they did with Sisko in the final episode. :(
sakar181 Yes! I absolutely loved Garak. I think one of my favorite scenes is the banter between Garak and Quark. They are at the bar, and it's in one of the later seasons. I don't remember which episode; but Quark is comparing Humans to Root Beer (which he is drinking) and saying how "Cloy and bubbly" it is... and Garak agrees, adding, "It's INSIDIOUS..." The delivery was great. Wonderfully round characters in that show.
+CodeStation They didn't conveniently ignore it. They limited it to just Roddenberry creations which limited it to TNG and TOS. No DS9, Voyager, or ENT.... Which is probably a good thing because Voyager and ENT would have made them make this at least an hour long...
So correct about the prime directive, It's a good idea on paper but in practice what exactly is so moral about doing noting to prevent the destruction of a civilization? Honestly saving some primitive culture at the risk of them developing a religion out of you sounds like a better alternative than callously letting them die.
The Prime Directive is about two things. One, like you mentioned, becoming an accidental religious figure, thus altering irreversibly the fate of a culture, yes, but perhaps most importantly Two, it's about not upsetting the balance of power in technologically inferior species by introducing technologies that are severely beyond that of the species in question, especially where multiple cultures or species inhabit the same star system, or in many cases, the same planet. Imagine if Nazi Germany got their hands on a single replicator, or if the McCarthyists had witnessed a ship of unknown origin accelerating into high orbit at a speed never before predicted. Or more to our own understood technologies, even in a tiny timescale. Imagine if the Maxim gun was developed only 30 or 40 years earlier. Imagine how much bloodier the American Civil War would have been if every soldier had their hands on an accurate-ish automatic weapon. Imagine how World War I would have gone if the US had developed atomic weapons during that period instead of during WWII.
As they mentioned in the video, they broke the Prime Directive several times when they weighed the moral implications and found that they had no choice but to try to act in as unassuming or unseen way as possible.
Although the prime derective says tp never interfere with other civilizations, you'd think they'd put "unless they are all going do die" at the end of that sentence.
Craig Cooper Still, numbers go against that. 7 Billion deaths and the end of civilization, or just a few thousand spread over thousands of years? Also the enterprise can still pop down and say that they are not gods but good folk. Voyager dealt with that in an episode....half assed but still dealt with it.
Georg Veramme So did TNG in the episode "Who Watches The Watchers". Picard is viewed as a god like figure after he is seen by a primitive alien race as reviving people from the dead. Picard invites their most intelligent member of the society to the Enterprise they can find to explain to her it is just their superior technology and tools. She STILL thinks he is a god even after he insists he is not. He ends up having to take a fatal wound by an arrow to prove he is indeed mortal and thus, powerless as a god. It's a good thing he had an artificial heart or he would have died.
The existence of this show debunks their premise that without money as a motivator there is no creativity; as I am sure they sat around prior to its conceptualization doing exactly what they do on the show before they had the means to monetize it.
One problem with that hypothesis. They (the characters) are actors, and everything they are saying was written by someone else. Gotta watch the credits man. However, were that not the case, your point would be perfect.
Then you clearly don't know a lot about Star Trek. Everything they say is easily shot down with actual knowledge from the show. They just avoid mentioning it because that wouldn't make in their eyes a good video. Keep the faith Claramata.
+Brother Malachai And that homogenisation is happening in the real world. TV, movies and other media tend to wash away our cultural and even regional differences.
+Brother Malachai try this its fowl and you know the worst part after awhile you start to like it its fizzy its bubbly its like hte feederations and humans they call it rootbeer, huemans
Here's my view on it. In the Star Trek universe, there seems to be a deep respect for the classic works of the past. I would say more so than we have today. Think about that for a second, if you had access to a holodeck, would you be reenacting Shakespeare or pretending to be Dick Tracy? There's also subtle bits of art and literature spread out in the numerous Star Trek series. There's also the fact that you mainly see the Star Trek universe through the eyes of military officers. They're millions of light years from home, exploring the universe and fighting wars. You don't really get to see much of the universe beyond that. Who's to say that there aren't great writers, artists, and actors in that century? Just because you don't get to see it in your very limited view of that universe, doesn't mean it's not there. Hell, there's art hanging in Picard's ready room that definitely didn't come from the 20th century. Someone had to paint that. I cannot see a society so respectful and interested in classic works of art and literature not creating new art themselves. That's not even getting into the fact that there seems to be a LOT of musicians on the Enterprise during TNG. As for the society not differing a whole lot, that's not true either. Even from the limited view we get from the show, it's easy to see that there are a lot of differing cultures, intermingling between cultures, and differing ideas and morals within those cultures. I'd Say that Star Trek is probably the single most diverse show ever made because of the hundreds of different species and cultures portrayed. Even on Earth in the Human race there is a lot of variety. Just to name a few, you have the Native Americans who have kept their traditions alive, the New Orleans citizens who have embraced the cities history, and the Frenchmen who still makes wine the old way. They have a point with the admirals. Bastards. The prime directive has a noble goal, but I agree that they do sometimes take it too far. As shown in the show, it is sometimes ok to break that rule which is perfectly reasonable as long as the spirit of the law is observed and followed as closely as possible. They are wrong about the Federation budding into other species business because they're bored. The prime directive prevents that on new species, and any species that expresses their wish to be left alone will be left alone, which Picard himself explained at one point. The Federation was never meant to be depicted as a utopia, a perfect world, because it's not. That is admittedly shown numerous times through the different series, especially Deep Space 9. Those faults are made well known, they're discussed, and they're dealt with in different ways.
I would not agree with this video, but there is one thing that I always found creepy in Star Trek, namely transporters. In order to transport someone, you have to scan him/her , then the person gets destroyed and re-assembled at a different place. So the original person is pretty much dead. They just _believe_ that the person materializing is the original, because everyone _feels_ like the original person and tells all the others "Hey, I am totally the original person!". In fact the Star Trek universe is full with copies of dead persons, who will soon die as well to be replaced by another copy.
Shadowtechnik Yeah, I know, they talk about such things in the show. And they even added Heisenberg-compensators to counter the uncertainty principle. But I remember an episode where the inventor of the technology just brushes this notion of and calls it "nonsense". So in the end they _still_ could all be copies of dead people, just believing they are the original. :D
There's actually a sci-fi short story called "Think Like A Dinosaur" (which I believe was turned into an episode from the 1990s "Outer Limits") about what happens when there's a transporter malfunction and the "original" isn't destroyed.
***** same here. I mean, I know it's the whole point of the show, but cracked always talks about everything as though it exists in a bubble, completely disregarding the fact that star trek was made from the late 60's to the late 90's...it wasn't a documentary made in the 23 century. They could only pull from pre- 60's-90's works of media like art and music in their references, so to complain that this indicates some fault in federation society is ridiculous and forcefully myopic. like I said, I get that that's the point, to argue unnecessarily about things, but this time it was just done poorly I think.
I wish I could sit at that table and pwn all of there arguments... 1: Mankind has advanced pass greed and money. They are apart of a entire federation of other cultures and ways of life. Citizens motivation is anything! They have everything they would ever need to follow there dreams. They literally can be whatever they want in life. Some aspire to make there mark in the world as a scientist having there name live one! Some aspire to lead a ship or a entire fleet of ships on missions to advance science help people and defend entire worlds! When the Federation is not under attack they spend there time learning a bout the universe. And its citizens spend there time having family's and living a good life.
Agreed. They are essentially arguing that we need to get sick and starve to death to be happy. It's absurd. I realize they are just trying to be funny but it sounds like sour grapes.
I love their comment about how everyone wears the same thing, that's like complaining that everyone on the millitary base is wearing the same camo and calling it a dystopia.
I dunno. I know that on my days off I spend my time watching TV, playing MMOs and going to movies. How much worse would it be if I didn't have the motivation of money forcing me to be productive? I have a feeling I'm not alone in this. I think that if I lived in the Star Trek universe I'd march into a holodeck and lock the doors behind me.
-According to Star Trek canon, I thought there were wars up until first contact which is when the Federation was formed, like a huge gap in culture creation, maybe that is why they enjoy older media? -Breaking the prime directive once in a while and ensign Ro defecting shows they don't always blindly follow. -Admirals are evil because the many threats to the Federation like to infiltrate management....for some reason.
the main rule the prime directive is the the rule that is constantly broken on both TNG and the og Star Trek.A world with money and magic boxes that feed you as well as gives you stuff would be a world full of people with no motivation bored out of their skulls.
"They don't rebel because nothings wrong". North Koreans are told that every other country, especially the people in the America, are starving even worse than them. They don't know that anything is wrong
Every argument on this video was complete weak sauce. - they had functional clothes, an avoidance of current music and movies in an attempt to NOT DATE THE SHOW. That simple folks. - When you "HAVE EVERYTHING" ie the BASIC fundamentals of life like food, water and education, escapist ENTERTAINMENT is the last thing on MY list of shit to do. How about exploring the mysteries of science and the COSMOS instead of wasting your life looking at CRACKED videos on RUclips? - a ship with kids WAS silly and an idea that was later discarded, but it came from a great intention that was hardly evil. AND the Enterprise was NOT A WARSHIP. - if you think that building a utopia by defeating famine, educating the masses and freeing mankind to pursue its own betterment results in a BORING SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT then YOU'RE whats wrong with America. Check please.
KirksMerkin You don't understand how human nature works. People don't just have what they need, they have anything they could ever want, which would erase all motivation.
The point though is that people are motivated by science and exploration, which is still developing in Star Trek. Star Trek is a show about "what if" people were better
Also, they said “there’s no war” completely glossing over conflicts with the Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Ferengi, etc. TOS had a focus on the Klingon warships causing havoc
As a person living in the third world, I find it annoying when people enjoying the privileges of living in the developed world smugly declare that having one's needs met "destroys motivation". When your strongest motivation is holding on to a crappy job because the unemployment rate is very high -- in a place where unemployment means certain hunger -- or when your thoughts are almost entirely about how you will obtain your next meal, you have very little time to be philosophical, to mull over the Big Questions, or to enjoy high art (because the bread and circus are enough company for your miseries). I have friends and relatives living in the developed world, and I can say that their quality of life is just better. In an affluent, spacefaring society, I predict that the quality of life would be even better. In a society that has solved many of the problems pestering even the developed countries of today, the citizens will not waste their lives on some artificial and arbitrary problems of current economics but will fill their time with great art, good philosophy, and boldly going into places where no one has gone before.
You guys needed a ringer for this episode. Someone who could quote the shield modulation frequency of a Galaxy Class starship. I was trying to argue all of these points but you couldn't hear me!
Of course, the Federation is a military organization, meaning there's little to no actual data about normal people except in their relatively few interactions with the authority figures we're following in the episodes.
Hilariously enough, if Micheal had included the other series like DS9 or Voyager, he could have won because they address all those concerns.
Go on...
Maybe he could have won... but at what cost?
if they included the orville then all three would have to pay for his meals for an year.
The original series addressed them, because there _was_ a war then, against the Klingon Empire, and they talked about why there's a huge pop culture gap between the 21st century and Star Trek.
@cory6266 wait a second that doesn't make any sense either, some of the absolute greatest creations of art, literature, and moments in history are created during war. Abraham Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, the 54 of Massachusetts, the slave narratives by Frederick Douglass. This is basically proves that in the Star Trek universe, they are so jaded that not even an Intergalactic War with an alien species could create anything memorable
“That would be like us still into cave paintings” and then saying “30th century”
Nah, it’s only 24th or early 25th? So relatively that’s us being into renaissance artwork. Which, come on guys, we totally still are.
Not to mention that in the Star Trek timeline, the 21st century was a.... Dark time for humanity, Warhammer 40k dark. Probably not an attractive thing to relieve in the holodeck
Called it.
Don't forget how much of our current media is online only, and thus susceptible to emp deleting it.
"What other places are like that?"
"North Korea"
"Apple Stores"
horrifying
China.
This is one of my favorite parts in all of the After Hours episodes.
the united states
@@degrassi420 parts of it, maybe.
When Michael started doing the imperial theme talking about star trek murdered me a bit inside
Joy Swanson pretty sure that was the joke
I burst into tears laughing
It's a military force. Everyone wears the same clothes because they are the uniform.
+Brianna Goldberg Different branches of the military wear different uniforms.
+Nathan Zimmerman that too.
+Brianna Goldberg Plus he says "Even on Earth" while showing Starfleet Academy. Another place where people would be expected to wear uniforms.
yop ... the pool service at our resort is a military force too.. I mean.. they wear uniforms
And the show is specifically about military OFFICERS.
Me eight years ago: haha, take them trekkies down a peg or two!
Me today, a full-on trekkie: now hold on a damn minute, fam
"Jean-Luc Picard to all of that" . That should've been the end of it. ; )
That had me rolling. Cause I agreed with the logic of it.
Yes.
⚜️🔱〽️
As far as I'm concerned, it was.
I feel like the "No motivation" argument is the same one I hear when I talk about a world without money, and where all our needs are met simply because it's the right thing to do. Housing, food, medicine, education, security... I seem to remember Picard remarking that people in the 24th century are motivated by achievement and personal growth. I dont think circumstances for humanity could ever be ideal, but we are capable of SO much more right this second. As far as feeding, housing, educating, and healing people. We CAN do those things for everyone through technology and mutual cooperation. We just choose not to because then the handful of people in the world with all the money and security and power wouldn't control everyone anymore. That's just my opinion, I'm hardly an authority on the matter. But I do know when I'm getting low-key fucked. And I recognize it in others.
exactly the "hardships drive humanity forward" is actually a bullshit excuse used by the wealthy to justify their greed and to convince people that redistributing wealth is a bad idea. In reality redistributing wealth would help humanity innovate because people can get a lot more creative when they're not always starving or working)
@@revanruler6404 Exactly. The hardship and bootstrap arguments are bullshit, but they should also be considered deeply offensive. If someone advocates that then their basically just a stooge of the uber rich, capitalism and those who benefit from a deeply dystopian system.
If someone is going to call the world of Star Trek a dystopia, then what does that make this one?
Who for example would clean porta toilets if they didn't have to, think about any revolting job! Right now you put out a call for someone to drive around with a truck to place a hose into human waste and suck that out, so once every 30 minutes or so you are getting the smell of 10-20 peoples shit stored for a week wafting in your face, the way you get someone to do that is by raising the wage untill someone says ok the money is enough ill do it. In a society where everyone has what they want already who will do that job? Absolutely noone, but the job needs to be done on every construction site festival ect. How do you get people to do something if you can't motivate them with personal gain, you have to force some people to do it, this is why your fantasy communism fails every time. There are way too many crap jobs out there noone will ever want to do so you need to force them.
@@briannorris1548 you make a fair point, Brian. I can't refute that and while I'd hope for more specialized technological applications to reduce the need for undesirable jobs, I acknowledge it's unlikely to happen any time soon if it ever happens at all.
@@briannorris1548for the most part none of us are under the impression that we’re actually going to ever get to a utopian moneyless society. But is it REALLY so much to ask that people not be forced to starve to death out on the streets just because they don’t create profits for the professional managerial class?? Is fucking healthcare that isn’t tied to your ability to produce profit too much to ask for? Nobody is actually trying for “luxury automated gay space communism” or whatever, but to act like we just can’t do a WHOLE LOT better than we are right now is just being disingenuous.
None of their arguments landed. They just called the Federation an "evil empire".
There's tons of 23rd art, music, and entertainment mentioned in the series, they just don't talk about it much because that's not what the show's about, they say "everyone dresses the same" - HELLO, UNIFORMS, everyone shown is part of Starfleet, their version of the Navy. When they go home to visit their relatives or Risa or whatever, there is no uniformity to any of the clothing. They're confusing Starfleet for the whole society. They're trying waaaaay too hard.
4:30 - Most of them???? That was 3 examples out of hundreds.
+AndroidDoctorr Thank you! I was just thinking the exact same thing. Are they only including the Earth or encompassing the whole of the Federation (because Earth actually has its own world government and is a member of the Federation, the Federation is not Earth Government - I forget which episode mentions this, but I know I heard it either in TNG or DS9). As for the arts - if you're including the whole of the Federation in your assessment of Star Trek, then I know of at least one episode off the top of my head, "Most Toys" that mentions at least several pieces of art work post 21st century, but I don't believe they were of Earth origin.
And was this really about Star Trek or was it about Gene Roddenberry? Because if you want to make an honest argument for or against the Federation, you have to include at least DS9 and Voyager. Enterprise could be included if you're talking Star Trek as a whole, but otherwise thankfully it was pre-federation so it can be ignored.
Yeah they even said everything up to Bakula, which I think every True Star Trek Fan knows is the True Canon lol.
Even though there were actually a few good Enterprise episodes, and they explained some things pretty well, like the whole Klingon augment virus thing explaining away the makeup.
This. Exactly this. It's just basic contrarianism. Disagreeing to give the illusion of intelligence and or edginess
+Xhumed69 Lol yeah. "Everyone loves Star Trek so lets manufacture a way to shit on it so we can be above it!"
Just a nitpicking thing, but we know that there's new stuff being made based on Star Trek Voyager... Janeway talks about how they needed to start creating their own holonovels and stuff because they're missing out on all the new stuff at home, and then later Paris is a holonovelist, so we know there's new stuff, we just don't see it because that's not what the shows are about.
Also they all dress the same because the stories are essentially set in a military setting.
YOU WILL NOT RUIN STAR TREK. No, sir.
Brianna E. Indeed and let us not forget that Jake and his grandfather are seen wearing different clothes because they are not Starfleet officers.
Exactly. Michael's counter-argument was poorly constructed.
Brianna E. Yes, but those weren't by Roddenberry which was the caveat in the video. A lot of the good things about TNG and the later seasons are due to the fact that they replaced Roddenberry with better writers/showrunners.
Timothy Sheff
This is true, but there are examples similar to mine in TNG. I just can't think about them and don't want to go back and watch it just to find said examples.
Brianna E. Picard visits his brothers vineyard, correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember seeing a "Picards Vineyard" brand wine in the shops so that is two of their arguments beaten with one... stone. Forgive the mixed metaphor.
His brother creates new wine as he is clearly not older than the Federation, and as a civilian just wears normal clothes and lives a perfectly pleasant life with his family... and slight resentment of his brothers success. Normal family stuff.
I could write a dissertation refuting each and every one of these points. They actually reference plenty of popular holonovels, various people paint and play instruments, Janeway herself sculpts with Seven. Also, those are UNIFORMS, but if you look at civilians, they do not all dress the same. Just watch DS9... when Ben joins the marquee he takes off his uniform. Jean Luc Picard wears horseback riding tac in some episodes, and civilian clothes in 'Family Ties'.
I'm sure they explicitly mentioned that only TOS and TNG were cannon in their argument
even if you disregard the DS9 and Voyager, Picard is TNG and there are plenty of times when the crew goes on shore leave and does not wear uniform
Hugo Marq - Even in JUST the TNG universe we see plenty of characters go on shore leave on planets like Risa and don't wear their uniforms. Data paints and plays violin. We see tons of culture from after the 20th century in the Star Trek TNG and TOS series.
I'm pretty sure the idea was to paint Star Wars as artistically organic, and Star Trek as merely rectilinear synthetic.
maquis appear in TNG!
"They all look the same, dress the same, act the same. What other society does that?" Um. All of them. Even in democracies you have fashion trends in which every one attempts to look identical to every one else. Ask any actor who has ever played Shakespeare what it's like to walk into a cafe in tights and jerkin. As for the "onesies," they are uniforms of the federation and every time they show earth, they're showing a federation compound. You don't get to see the fashion of the era because they never show the officers hanging out at a local cafe or a bar. You had to wait for the 21st century version to see that.
Gail Bull well said
watch the movie equalizer
Gail Bull Exactly! We actually see what civilian fashion looks like a few times. Counselor Troi, first-off, is notoriously bad about not wearing her uniform on duty, although she does dress more professionally than when she's off-duty. We see several people in civvies while on leave, including Picard and Riker, as well as civilians over the course of the series, like Picard's brother. And the fashion looks as goofy and outlandish to us as the fashion of the Renaissance, which makes sense, as both are a few centuries removed from us. We mostly see more old-fashioned culture because we're mostly following Picard, who likes history. If more episodes focused on, say, Geordie, we may see more modern culture.
I apologize that all of my references are to TNG, but I haven't had a chance to see TOS or Voyager yet, as I'm fairly new to the fandom.
Yeah they didnt cover Voyager and DS9 at all, but the arguments for Star Trek here were weak and it was kinda one sided
also, Starfleet is a quasi-military hierarchical institution. They are wearing uniforms. Civilians wear weird, interesting, unique clothing all the time in the show.
My favorite point: The prime directive takes an arbitrary technological milestone and prohibits aiding a planet if they haven't achieved that milestone. That's like seeing a little girl on the side of the road but rather then helping her you say, "Wait she hasn't learned Calculus yet, we can't help her or it might disrupt her natural development."
I believe it is just homage to UFO conspiracy followers.
No, it's nothing like that. Your example is horrible.
The prime directive is mostly aimed at keeping technology that is too far advanced for a species out of their hands, because it's more likely to do harm then it will good. They barely know how it works because they didn't slowly progress into it. They were thrown in and that's incredibly dangerous.
If you encounter a species whose technology hasn't developed beyond the Earth equivalent of medieval times, do you really want to barge in and teach them about warp drives, phaser guns and teleportation devices? No. They're not ready for that yet. Every species has to come into their own ways of technology at their own time. That way, they learn of all the risks involved and slowly but surely, learn to reduce those risks and use it more safely in the future.
The Vulcans didn't contact the humans until AFTER they had discovered that humans had unlocked the power of warpdrives. Sure, it was still rudimentary and we had a lot left to learn, but it showed that we were capable of it and that, given time, we would have learned to master it on our own, eventually. At that point, we were close enough to their own technological advancements to be considered their equals.
It has nothing to do with a technological milestone, the warp drive thing is fanon. The prime directive applies to all other civilizations and is referenced as such in multiple episodes.
My understanding was that it was basically "don't contact other civilisations unless they can technically come to us first"
Not much point in avoiding them when they have the capability to follow you home :P
Rohan2300 It's about non-interference in the affairs of others, unless they specifically ask for it. For example interfering in the politics of the Klingon Empire without any side within the empire asking for it would be a violation of the Prime Directive.
As I head into the last quarter of my life expectancy I can honestly say the "motivation" of struggle was over rated.
I agree. It's just a lie to excuse not paying people enough, not respecting workers' rights and for the super rich to get away with continuing to rob the majority. It's sad and pathetic that anyone uses this argument, even in a sketch.
Fuckin’ a comrade 🤘🏼
As I head into the second half of my life expectancy, I can honestly say ...
"Wait, wtf ?? How the hell did that happen ???"
Are they implying that the federation is communist?
@@Dino23968 socialist for sure
Don't mess with star trek, there are people far nerdier that you out there, and they will destroy all of your theories
theres so much wrong with the video i'd have to make my own video just to explain everything.
no...... its happening
To their credit, they went for 8 minutes about the horrors of Trek and never once mentioned how everyone who ever takes a teleporter is killed, torn apart on the molecular level, shunted through an annular confinement beam, and then cloned somewhere else in the vicinity with the dead particles of the vaporized body. Kudos, +Cracked!
and the problem in that is ? what if i tell u u die about 12 times in your life not so black and white now is not it ?
Nah, just false. "But blah blah cells!" False. Cry me a river. LOL
Should any of us be concerned that Soren just tricked Michael into joining Scientology? Should we worry about that, maybe just a little?
I would if I thought he had the attention span to listen to it for more then 5 minutes and could actually follow any of it. I think he'd just squirrel off to something else before any damage could be done.
Connor Tyler yes yes we definitely should
no. i think he would annoy them so much they break apart
samuel young On that basis we should all be celebrating! Soren just destroyed scientology!
TotalWeirdo yes we should
This is the reason they're wrong about Star Trek.
The actual real-life reason the crews of the various starships you see in the series only care about 20th century fiction, is the writers didn't want to make up the things we'd be doing in the 21st century. The in-story reason is, the Eugenics Wars. In Star Trek, Earth went through a rough patch where genetically enhanced kings ruled the planet, fighting each other. Khan was one of them, and Dr Brashear in DS9 had many of the same advantages, he just kept it to himself because there was a lot of social stigma that went along with it. Remember in First Contact, how the camp those people were living in looked terrible? That's the result of the Eugenics Wars, humanity wasn't doing so hot. Until contact with alien life unified them. And in almost every other episode, they talk about how their drive in life is self-improvement, not this asinine search for novelty you claim.
You've got a good point there. From their perspective they look to the arts of the 20th century like we think about arts from the renaissance period. On the surface, Star Trek may seem like a silly show. But I've always seen it as one of most intelligently written shows out there.
ThisisFizban The most annoying part is, this is *Star Trek*. This isn't some minor meaningless fandom, this is the franchise that has guided technology for decades. We have tablet computers because engineers wanted to have Star Trek stuff in real life. This is a franchise that's so well-known that references to it are universal. You say "beam me up Scotty" to anyone in a first world country, they know exactly what you're talking about.
Writers didn't want to make up things we'd be doing in the 21st century? But they're obviously fine doing that for the 23rd century? That's literally all sci fi writers do: make up the future. The eugenics wars sound like they made something up for us to do in the future.
What's your real point? That the writers don't want to imagine what pop culture will be in the future? You're taking the show way too seriously. The actual point was that when you have everything, you lose motivation. The question isn't whether the show provides evidence of this happen. The question is reality, and why the show is such a load of BS that you have to suspend disbelief to enjoy it. They went off on a tangent for comedic effect.
Ninja Tweak Yes, it is fine. Because no one alive today will be around in the 23rd century to complain.
I also imagine there was a period after first contact where all humanity wanted to do was take in the galactic media. No one wanted to read the latest Earth novel when you have the best of the best of the past millennia to catch up on.
Monetary gain is a powerful motivator but ST asks, is it the only one? Is it the right one?
The Prime Directive may not be perfect but do we want to be galactic conquistadors? I think the Incans, Mayans and other races might have been spared if there were a Prime Directive back then.
Enterprising Captian Money is the only reason anyone works. That's the truth.
Picard was willing to let an entire race go extinct rather than break the PD, it was only Worf's brother going against Picard that saved him. The PD is pure bullshit. It's just a way for the Federation to lazily shirk their responsibilities. Picard himself has proven more than once that not following the PD can be constructive.
@@immortalstranger8532 Untrue. People work (to make money) because they want to be 'better' somehow. Usually better than their neighbor. If money wasn't an issue there would still be a way to be better than your neighbor, maybe through creativity, discovery, or spirituality.
@@immortalstranger8532 actually most people work to fulfill their needs, in a universe like star trek people would simply be more into art since htey wouldn't have to work. The whole "people need challenges to be happy" is something invented by the wealthy to justify keeping people in poverty, if being rich is so boring and terrible then why are the 1% not redistributing their wealth, it's because not having to ever worry about food or money is extremely freeing and allows for more time to spend on art and innovation (people don't really innovate or do anything artistic when they're starving, most scientists and artists throughout history were wealthy as fuck)
The Incans and the Mayans needed to be toppled, the were worse than Nazis to people that weren’t them.
"Jean-Luc Picard to all of that!" is now going to be my counter-argument to everything (especially if I'm losing).
Problems arise with this potential statement. What if those around are entirely unfamiliar with the aforementioned character's name? Then it's just weird you said something that makes no sense to them.
Normandu Jean-Luc Picard, to all of that! If such people exist, then don't you think they deserve to be properly educated? Isn't that what Captain Picard would do?
4:24 - Hey, wait a minute: All three of those were from the same episode.
Well off course everyone wears the same clothes. All shots of earth are of starfleet academy. A MILITARY academy. So naturally everyone is wearing UNIFORMS.
ALEXANDER1318 Indeed. When we see Picard's family and Sisko, it's totally normal clothing.
+Yesspaz Smith If you call the same, bland, characterless brown clothing which all looks like glorified rags 'normal'.
They also have downtime clothes. and formal wear outside of their uniforms. In the very first episode Crusher gets some fabric to make a dress.
Just because the society has at least one spaceship on a mission of exploration doesn't mean the whole rest of society does nothing else. We have a robot rolling around exploring the surface of Mars right now, so according to the reasoning used in this video, all of us on Earth are completely bored and nobody is doing anything excepting looking at pictures sent back from the Curiosity Rover.
+Richie P
Not really... The entire mandate of the federation was to explore new worlds.
Slight difference when it is your prime function.
+yu nofun Nope. You're thinking about Starfleet, not the Federation. Starfleet is the exploration branch, basically what the military becomes in a pacifist society. The Federation is as diverse a society as ours, even more so since it comprises thousands of alien worlds, but we don't see much of this aspect because the series are centered around space and exploration, that's all.
Wait, what? I thought that was what we were all doing? Have I got this wrong? Do have have to go outside and get a job now?
+Richie P Well, to be fair, it's not 'at least one spaceship'. It's the flagship.
Dan does make a pretty good point about sending a warship filled with children into the great unknown…
The most horrifying thing to me about the Star Trek universe is the casual abundance of basically omnipotent beings (the Q, Nagilum, Douwd, Edo God, etc) with the ability to kill billions with a thought (and these are just from TNG); it's a miracle humanity hasn't been wiped out by one of these guys yet.
On a after hours binge, did not expect to find connections to W40K.
This, as well as how profoundly bored they all are to deign directly interact with mere mortals.
You're just grasping here. You assume they're bored. You assume there's totalitarian stuff happening. There's no proof of any of that. You're just imagining how it could go wrong, not finding actual flaws.
I believe that doing what you described is the fundamental premise to the show. It's reductio ad absurdum for comedic effect.
Usually though, they do their research and have a point. I see none of that here.
The point is to screw with Michael. Hence the Scientology bit at the end.
Okay that was the one funny bit, along with the jab at Apple.
They would have had a stronger point if they brought up DS9 which introduced Section 31.
>.> Are they even trying? "Where's the new works?" Roddenberry clearly noted that he did not want to speculate on the advancements of earths musics and entertainment too much because he knew that he was deficient in musical theory. He did, however, note things like people writing holonovels and pursuing new works of music without saying what they were.
Regarding the exploration part, people have been doing that since africa. To explore is our natural instinct. To gain the knowledge is our motivation. To meet others is our goal. Granted in the past we've been a bit of a dick about that. But, let's face it, that's like saying we go out into space aboard the ISS because we are bored. It ignores the gains we make as a result of space exploration.
"Everyone dresses the same"
They're in a quasi military order. Would you call the army or the navy or the marines and air force dystopian just for having uniforms?
I think civilians would probably dress differently, all that's really shown is the military, so yeah they'll all look the same. Supposedly. :)
Kha Zix Uhh, k? I was agreeing with your point -.-
I mourn the loss of the mini man skirt uniform...
Mini kilt
+Steven Crowell Yeah, that's what I said...a man skirt.
Haha, I was not the only one to s it :)
yeah that outfit is still the great mystery of Star Trek Generations, I honestly wonder if it's an easter egg spoof of Zap Branigan's outfit from futurama
(sorry its late but...) um, futurama wasnt around when the next gen was made. if anything, zap branigan's uniform is a take on the 'skant' (iirc that is what it was called, i think that is what the old catalogues called the patern for it when you wanted to order them)
i expect the only reason we see males wearing it in farpoint was to remind us that federation folks got past body issues so a male in a miniskirt was nothing to be surprised about, and we never realy saw them again after that, outside of conventions lol
I know this is super old, but I liked how one point was that everyone falls in line, then another point was that they question the Prime Directive .
TOS treated the Prime Directive as a guideline with very obvious exceptions. TNG, on the other hand, treated the Prime Directive like theocratic dogma with no shades of grey.
Until it was treated like it had shades of grey out of necessity. :D
Picard was a bit of a hard ass about that directive. More so than the rest of the crew who seemed open to exceptions.
Molon Labe The best part about DS9 is that it was "anything goes" as the Prime Directive is concerned.
DS9 was a good series, the Dominian war was great..
Arnold Cranium The best part about Sisko being the commander of a space station in neutral territory is that the Prime Directive does not apply to what happens on DS9.
>calling the Enterprise a warship
+Chicken It does have weapons and a military hierarchy.
+BigFatCock I know right? That just bugged me. It is the FLAGSHIP, yes, but a warship? It is designed for peacekeeping, it would be like calling a police car a "War Wagon"
It’s one of their flagships which means it’s armed to the teeth.
Two things
1. They only said why some things were strange not bad
2. They assumed that Star Trek was a complete universe (e.g. Explanations like 'they didn't have time in the show' and so on were invalid but could only dispute that final point by flat out ignoring it and claiming that the writer/s had ulterior motives.
Also for the point about everyone wearing the same clothes that's wrong the clip was from star fleet academy which is a military base so they would have uniforms on.
Not true. People are creative when they dont have to worry about working to live. The best scientists didnt need to work. Without money we would have more scientists and artists. The universe is not boring guys. I would give everything to discover even an asteroid. And most people would love to have such technology. This society is horrible full of discrimination and injustice. 80% of the humans dont have access to basic goods like fresh water and food. Sorry guys but Star Trek society is a paradise compared to ours.
+mlazos Human nature being what it is , I rather think we would have more idle holodeck - addicted layabouts than artists & scientists. Most people are not artists & scientists anyway , what do you think they'd do to fill their time? Star Trek is actually more about how it could be , not how it might actually be.
+subliteral now you discriminate. Do you have a proof of what you say? I totally believe people can be everything they want, and neither you, nor me, should decide for others. If people had the opportunity to express their artistic side, they would. Even everyday things can become art. If we were free to try and decide what we want to do, then you would discover that every person has a scientist and artist side. Stop discriminating and stop deciding for others. A future society should be fair and give everyone an equal chance.
+mlazos I see what you are saying but, I'm think it take longer than 300 years to turn peoples attitude to the greater good. I've had my 23 year old stepson living in my house didn't didn't work for almost a year while me and my wife feed and clothed him and he never tried one to better his life. Now you may say that's only one example but. He had at least 10 friends who lived the same way. Plus each one of those had even more like them. I just don't hold out to much hope for the utopia from Star Trek.
+Kenneth Hildebrand you need education. The society spends billions on war, and crap defence, billions to kill each other just because the people who decide are psychopaths and sociopaths. We need more money for education. You cant expect a young man without any kind of good influence from the society to do perfect.
If we stop building nuclear war heads in the world and we stop so e companies from controlling the public opinion, the education will be a lot better thus better behaviour, people and society. Its not we dont have enough its because we waste them on killing each other. We have one international space station and more than 15,000 nuclear missiles ready to kill each other. I suggest we kick out the psychos from the captainship, and we choose people with compassion and empathy. If you see the leaders and councils feel nothing for the dead and their families during a war. So to conclude, its not that your stepson is a jerk and destroys the society, its because no education
+Kenneth Hildebrand democracy to work we need informed educated citizens. School is not just to give knowledge. Is there to build personalities and create culture. With bad education you get bad society and dictatorship. So pick your side. Do you want to be used by those who try to control the society? Or you prefer education, open mind, free spirit and human rights? Wise is someone who doesnt need written laws to function in a society but is doung because he knows its the right thing to do.
"They have total blind faith in their society. What other society is like that?"
American middle-aged adults in the late 50's-60's.
somebody please tell me they have a video where he meets with sciencetologists, that should be a good one
Sadly no. I don't think they want to get sued.
DAMN, I'd pay for an episode of that... not MUCH but I'd pay, lol
John Franklin lol
Ami Propagator
allBrag noLag sup
There are a lot of studies behind worker motivation out there examining reward systems. They were done to find out why generation Y has some of the highest production rates (After accounting for computer increases); yet has the some of the lowest consecutive participation rates in specific fields (Our generation tends to work, then take long breaks). You guys want to know a startling finding?
People who are free to express personal interest in work; and can display that work to others? Are far more productive than people who are doing the work in order to be rewarded for a resource.
A famous example of this is Wikipedia, or wikis in general. There are enormous amounts of work poured into them; by people who all volunteers.
It's actually giving a resurgence to Marx's free associative theories. In other words; it really does seem when people have everything they want? They begin to just work on stuff they like; and they are far more productive when doing that. I know it seems completely counter intuitive, but read up on it.
yep the argument that people need to be driven by hunger and money is actually a lie told by capitalists to justify their shitty system
not sure why you say its completely counter intuitive - it seems quite an opposite. people do their best work when they are into it (if you love your job youl never have to work a day in your life) and not when they are forced to do it by either societal pressure(communists) or desire to eat and chase all mighty dollar(capitalists). if all people needs were completely met for free - sure a lot of people would just do nothing but majority would pursue whatever field they find fascinating and their output would be ten times more than enough to balance out the veggies. ive lived in both Communist as well as Capitalist countries and both have pluses but neither system is perfect(and in both cases imperfection is caused by a tiny percent of populace that ruins it for the rest. but there is a perfect system a hybrid if you will and one of the rewards of that system would be an elimination of currency(aka no money-no problem). unfortunately the biggest obstical to that system would be greed and power and peoples unwillingness to give up either(yet again the tiny percent of populace will do evything in their power to prevent losing any of it)
The problem with that is, not everything (really, almost everything) that people like to do to express themselves, is something they can be paid for, because it doesn't bring IN money that can then be paid TO them. And a lot of necessary jobs don't really have opportunity for self expression, but they still need to be done.
@@cory6266 Yeah. One of my friends is super anti-capitalist, but he also would never work as a plumber, a delivery man, garbage man, cashier, etc, because he doesn't find those jobs enjoyable. But no one does. That's the point. Until we have a way to automate jobs no one wants to do, there needs to be a reward for doing them, and that means some degree of market economy.
@@Demmrir That's not true, there's no need for a market economy for those. Sure, most of those jobs are things people wouldn't do by choice, but the way they are handled in a market economy is appalling. Most of them are badly paid and overworked and for essential jobs, those who do them are generally looked down upon.
Imagine instead that these jobs were paid better to account for their unpleasantness, and were only part time, so allowed those who did them greater freedom to do what they're truly passionate about in their free time. Imagine they also received prestige equal to the sacrifice that someone makes by taking on a role essential to society but generally considered dull or unpleasant.
Imagine also that these jobs were considered a social responsibility as part of a community built on solidarity and essential roles and time spent on them was divided equally and democratically. These are things all achievable today, and most of them ARE practiced today in different countries or communities.
I don't know you or your "super anti-capitalist friend", but his view could be a very middle class take on anti-capitalism or it could be a perfectly justified criticism of the way capitalist society and corporations handle these crucial jobs, paired with his own (probably justified) lack of interest in them.
Obviously if drudgery could be automated that would be better, but market economies demonstrably force people to do these jobs in horrific conditions for horrific wages or extended periods without breaks or days off. In fact the examples of jobs you gave barely scratch the surface. There are far better ways.
The bit where they say "they all wear those onesies" while showing...the Starfleet Academy. A military institution where everyone is in uniform. You're literally bitching about people wearing a uniform on a military base.
Actually, All of your arguments are wrong, but...that one's the worst.
1) There are plenty examples of 23rd century art and the reason there is nothing more "recent" is that in their time line diverges starts early and the 21st century is shaped by bombing ourself back to the stone age.
2) You contradict your own logic.
2.1 The events seen in the show can not represent normal life in 23rd century, because normal life in general is boring and without plot structure.
2.2 first you claim they have unquestioned blind faith in their system and later point out that they are repeatedly disobeying the prime directive - choose one
3) Scientology is a dangerous cult with a international secret agency, who abduct, blackmail, torture and murder people. How is that the same as a fandom??
4) 3:56 This entire argument is basically "They have a different society, but no one wants to life as we do", which is egocentric. You way to live your life is shaped by the way we are socialized. Questioning the status quo is not omnipresent in any society and the there are instances in Star Trek where it happens (for example, see 2.2)
4.1 Further more, the examples you point to have mostly one common point which is best described by the word of the year 2016 post-truth, thanks Trump
had a wild fanboy appeared?
NEEEEEEEEEEEERD
Do you have anything to answer?
@Daryn Ireland didn't he just lower the gas prices? Or do you only blame him when they rise?
I fucking lost the plot immediately after they played the Imperial soundtrack from SW over the Star Trek logo. Nah, fuck off.
That was the joke, it was ironic
jokes don't exist
No, that was Roddenberry alternate lounge mix RB4 aka sousaphone day. If they'd got to the guest lyrics by King Emperor Tomato Ketchup you'd be all for it.
haltopen12 No shit it was a joke..
+shadowclock13 They do, but you have to be human to really register them. However, if you fill out form 456-983-a-6b you will be issued 1 (one) Human Humor Manual which explains all of their bizarre and clearly dysfunctional human mental processes including The Joke, Irony, Sarcasm and the various forms of Fandom. You may apply at any learning center. Live long and prosper.
Lots of arguments have been addressed by other commenters, so I'll just look at one. Dan says that they have no motivation to do anything because of their technology. But the series is all about them doing things even though they don't have to; yes, they could sit on Earth with their replicators and holodecks and do nothing real with their lives, but instead they go out into space to explore the galaxy, discover and connect with new worlds and peoples, and do all the good they can (and are willing to risk their lives to do so). In other words, they haven't just evolved technologically, they've evolved morally.
I think the point was.... THEY ARE BORED. Which is why they do anything. In fact the only reason why the have the enterprise and star fleet is to RELIEVE their sense of boredom. Go find new worlds and cultures that still do cool shit and come back and tell us about it. Oh wait your good at your job? Well can't have you around too long, just keep going to this probably dangerous part of space and this probably dangerous part of space until your either dead or found new shiny shit to gawk at. There not a moral society. There are a society of sheltered kids leaving their basements because they topped all the leader boards of call of duty.
But the society doesn't exclusively consist of Star Fleet and exploration. That's only part of what they do. They set up new colonies, explore and develop a huge variety of scientific research and technologies, they do have cultural and artistic development (despite what the After Hours crew say here), and interplanetary relations. They're not sheltered, they're putting themselves out in the galaxy in virtually every way possible. If it was exclusively a matter of being bored, they could amuse themselves to no end on the holodeck without ever making real world contributions, so it's got to be more than that. They don't deliberately put their ships in unnecessary danger; all risks made are fair and acceptable. Additionally, before joining Star Fleet, people are vigorously tested in various ways so that they understand the risks of the position and prove that they can cope with them.
P.S. "There are a society..." There are? Really? I'm not really a grammar nazi, but come on. That's just terrible.
***** It's a little off topic of what I was saying, but I'll play devil's advocate. When something's wrong with the power source, every little bit helps. They have terraformed their own solar system as well as other colonies (ex. they've mentioned the Jupiter colony several times). Force fields seem to tap into the ship's energy and probably require a power source too big to carry for personal force fields. From what I've seen, their nanotech isn't yet sophisticated enough for use in the way you're describing; it's sometimes used by doctors in sick bay, but is too difficult to control and maintain for use in the field. Their ships aren't used for war, they're used for exploration. True, this could also be done by robotic ship, but it would be more difficult to maintain and their are several things the crew does, especially in contacting other civilizations that couldn't be done by robots (at least, not well); furthermore, I think they prefer to go out themselves rather than separating themselves from the rest of the galaxy the way they would be doing with robots (what's the point in exploring the galaxy if you're not there for it). Penetrating the ship isn't the problem for them, it's penetrating enemy shields (something that would be difficult to do with such a small amount of energy in a tiny diameter beam); they need to take out shields before they can use the transporter, plus they'd have to lower their own shields leaving themselves defenceless; it's better to just use their weapons systems. I'll admit, I'm a little confused on what they can and can't replicate/how it works so I won't go into it. Most of the hacking of starships I've seen seems to be done by members of the crew of that ship, meaning they have access codes allowing them to do this. Since they wouldn't have access codes to the ships they're fighting, it would be far more difficult; either way, it still seems faster to destroy ships with their weapons systems. For your last point, I think it's more of a tv ratings issue than anything else. Plus, the holodecks can be accessed by anyone. It would be kinda awkward for someone to check who's using the holodeck for what and seeing that :p
darthcarnage12
By saying that they'd prefer to go out themselves is basically admitting they're doing it because they're bored, I mean Data has all the charm and ability of a human and superior intelligence, yet the federation don't send a crew of robots like him, who can be rendered immortal with a simple wifi connection, they send living, breathing, fragile humans. Why? Because they're bored.
First, Data is an android and not a robot. He is also unique and has yet to be replicated. Second, he doesn't really have the charm of a human, though he progresses as the series moves on ;) Third, Data (along with any future androids that may be created in the future) are living beings and shouldn't be treated like slaves to do the bidding of humans (this was the subject of a really good episode). Fourth, Data is an unemotional being. Do you think it would be a good, responsible idea for Star Fleet to send and army of emotionless, independently thinking beings out into the galaxy with their most advanced weapons and transportation technology? Finally, I've already addressed how it must be more than boredom that drives them in a previous comment, so I'm not going to repeat myself.
This is like listening to a couple of toddlers discussing the finer points of wine tasting
And you're the baby sitting outside the group; flinging his shit and pissing himself.
The few glimpses we get of life outside the federation do not reveal everything to be perfect. The 'everyone on earth wears the same thing' comment was supported by a shot of the starfleet academy. For a look at how they live, look at picards' brother's family. Or the guys who don't want to leave the amazon women planet. No, not everyone wears the same thing. Some people do not have replicators, but could if they wanted to. The people that were found chilling in cryogenic stasis from the twenty first century that had to adjust to the twenty fourth, in the episode 'the neutral zone', had different challenges to overcome. Some lawyer had a hard time with the no money thing. In the books, one becomes a singer (like he was in the past), the housewife becomes a counselor for the time displaced, and the lawyer becomes an ambassador. The whole point of that episode is to attempt to describe the star trek utopia.
Funny, but bollocks. They'd have to intentionally ignore a lot of stuff from the series to be making these points.
According to the maps of the Federation you can see in the background in a few episodes and context clues in various episodes, the Federation is a buffer state between at least 7 larger and much more militarized and aggressive emipres (Andorians Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, Tholians, Borg). If the Federation didn't exist they'd constantly be at war with EACH OTHER.
All Federation ships are packed full of bleeding-edge alien technology and have 2 major design traits - speed and sensors. The so-called "Exploratory and Humanitarian Armada" is just a cover story for an entire military based on Cold War diplomacy and early detection and interception of military threats with overwhelming firepower.
And, after the invention of the genesis device and phased cloaking, the Federation possesses a WMD capacity unmatched in the region.
Looked at that way, the Federation is basically Isreal.
Grizabeebles Except the Federation never uses the Genesis device after it was developed, same with the phased cloak. It’s never mentioned again.
@@Fluffykeith -- and no country on earth has used nuclear weapons in anger since the second world war. The mere existence of nuclear stockpiles has changed war and geopolitics completely. At least, until the Russian or American President is enough of an idiot to use a nuclear weapon in a pre-emtive strike.
Phase cloak and the genesis device create the same paradigm is the ballistic missile submarine. Only even more destructive and even harder to detect.
Grizabeebles And both would have been awesome against something like The Borg. Except there’s no sign of either.
And the Dominion certainly weren’t intimidated or discouraged by the possibility of a Genesis weapon being used against them....and it’s hard to argue that they wouldn’t have known of their existence
@@Fluffykeith -- The Israelis haven't deployed any nukes either. In fact, Israel's policy of "deliberate official ambiguity" is very likely the same line the Federation would take. Starfleet certainly has had enough "Rogue Admirals" over the years that there's definitely a POSSIBILITY of phase-cloaked Genesis silos hidden all over the quadrant. And the mere possibility is enough to deter most sane species from attempting to DESTROY the Federation.
And, if the Federation had a longstanding policy of economic warfare, giving foreign armies safe passage and trading a few colonies for peace (see: Cardassian Wars) then there is no need for the other empires to fight a full-scale war with the Federaton and risk Mutually Assured Destruction. They can always 'negotiate' some kind of non-military solution.
Then there's the whole Time Travel angle that goes all the way back to TOS. Time Travel is the ultimate weapon of mass destruction and almost every warp-capable ship can do it.
They spend their time discovering new peoples, planets, and species. We do that now; at least we try. There's always more out there to learn and see. That on its own is motivating.
Humans are inherently explorers, which in itself I feel is the good part of the star trek universe.. But the earth society is straight Orwellian, a psudo-utopia, I would love to be on a ship, but hate to be living on the earth at the time..
Except for hoverboards.. They HAVE to have hoverboards by then... right?
Gary Sanders
I'd imagine so, what with flying cars and using antigrav platforms for something as simple as moving crates and such around. And really, we never actually see much of 24th century Earth; hell, I don't think they ever show more than San Francisco.
I see nothing wrong with nothing wrong. But, as evidenced by the posters above, not everyone wants a perfect society. Republican perchance?
Rodney Wollam Well if it appears 'perfect' on the outside.. Then the society is just better at 'preventing' crime.. Think 0 privacy and 100% thought police..
Marika Oniki Well we've been promised those for centuries (or decades, honestly no idea)
There are several examples of people creating art in ST:OG
Data paints in TNG... And participates in an orchestral quartet. People are still engaging in artistic pursuits.
I seem to recall he painted Impressionist style, which is old NOW, not just 400 years from now, and the orchestra was doing old music. Riker plays old jazz. The only thing new is Pareese's Squares, and we never see that played, only the damage to Will or Wesley.
People today make Jazz and classical music even though it's already old.
People still do sculptures. etc
paul coy - Um, there were tons of episodes
featuring art and such, even new art, like holonovels... holonovels don't even exist yet, but they do in Star Trek... They reference great composers from OTHER CULTURES and mention Klingon Opera, and Vulcan Music such as 'Oh Starless Night' (a funeral song), and on and on and on... There is even one episode where a planet tried to kidnap the children because they were sterile, and one of the children they were grooming to be a sculpture and the other a musician. Voyager takes place at the same time as TNG, and the Doctor becomes a 'holonovelist'.
Trusteft - Exactly. Most pop music is just Beethoven or Mozart.
"Klingons would love screamo"
they seem to me more like a death metal or black metal crowd. ;)
Actually, they're really big into opera.
opera or syhomic metal
something doom metally, or even shit
they might like a good classic country song
It funny but with all the wrong things being said in this video, them calling the Enterprise "a warship" bothers me the most. While it does have weapons to defend itself it's not for war. Warships wouldn't carry children on them like the Enterprise does.
Thus, the dystopic aspect of the shows.
***** I was replying to a previous comment that it can't be a warship due to civilian presence. I'm saying in a dystopia, civilians would absolutely be found on a warship.
***** Ok, bases are one thing, but kids on a modern day warship? Or on a warship of a far off future?
Yup, not a warship... It was the federation's flagship and was often sent on diplomacy or exploration or science missions... the original Star Trek did not have children on the ship , and Picard didn't like having children on his ship but only because he didn't like children... the topic of having children in space was a big one especially for the Next Generation. but to make a long story short having children on the Enterprise shows how far Humanity actually has grown it's positive not negative. crewman and crew women often did better having their families with them in space... even though everyone acknowledged the danger present but being in space was dangerous. inhumanity living in an enlightened era would realize that the family unit is the most important.
They have total blind faith in their way of life, I mean what other societies are like that?
North Korea.
Apple Stores.
XD
+Akin Khoo Well, many Americans get their media from the internet now, we have that here bro. CNN and all that, yeah they have viewership and an agenda they push on them, but those of us who don't buy into big media have a wide array of news outlets available where we get the same presentation the rest of the world does.
+Akin Khoo Yep, the USA is totally like that, person who doesn't live in the USA and is judging purely by popular media.
Not one American steps out of line or disagrees and protests the actions of the status quo.
Why, just the other day I was walking down the street marveling at how everyone was singing the Star-Spangled Banner in unison.
It was truly a sight to behold.
+gamemaster613 People in general are sure their way of life and society is the right one so long as it provides them with what they think they need. If not, they would immigrate, but even then they general think their personal way of life is the right one. They can have room for doubt, but they probably also have faith that this doubt is wrong.
As the description of nationalism goes. Nationalism: the believe your country is the best, because you're born in it
+gamemaster613 We Americans also have blind faith in our way of life. Our stupid consumer culture is jaded and based on materialism. We passively accept our high level of social stratification and inequality, even though it gives rich people ridiculous access to resources we can't afford and to power we don't have since money equals power. Somehow the rest of us don't feel oppressed by this unfair system. Odd and illogical.
+gamemaster613 Also, I'm pretty sure the wealthy ruling class in our society decided that the best way to control us is by keeping us ignorant and distracted. Even the social issues in our politics distract from the big issues like corporate welfare, lobbying, and the corruption of the federal reserve system. The fact that wealthy people in America get their way by stepping on the poor people.
the true horrifying thing about Star Trek is how everyone in that society have already died. At some point in the prehistory of the show every character stepped into their first teleporter and by that unintentionaly commited suicide. They ripped their bodies into atoms send those through space and then put them back togheter. No human could survive that. Teleporters are pretty much cloning machines with the exception that it recycles the material that the original body was made of.
There was a short story by Heinlein maybe that was about something like that.
And the body retains all the memories and continues on, identical to the last. Is it truly death or just a moment hugging the grim reaper?
if they have teleporters and Replicators, then no one would die, what you would do is, every time you teleport, keep a computer backup of it, then if you die, zap the dead body with the teleporter and hit the restore button to put you back to the last version of yourself that teleported while still alive.
And yet, like the Ship of Theseus, is it really the same person?
I thought only the pattern is transfered but new matter is used each time? I know Riker was doubled once so at least one of him wasn't the original material.
when listing Picards achievements its a travesty that you didn't include that he overcame the influence of the Borg after being turned into Locustus.
I honestly can't believe you guys missed this tiny little fact.
"We've engendered out all criminal tendencies" ~ John Luke Picard
The question is how. "Computer, locate Commander Riker."
Is constant surveillance the necessary price for a safe and secure society?
@@davidpaz9389 thats more of a Star fleet shipboard security thing. if you serve on a starfleet ship you get a com badge (in the tng era) which broadcasts your location, so if you need an emergency beam or need to be found for security reasons you can, unless you take off the badge.
but thats starfleet, regular federation society is depicted differently
At 4:25 Katie says 'Why is it every Federation Admiral -- in TNG especially -- is either evil, incompetent, or hosting a space slug'.
Video proceeds to use video clips of two CAPTAINS, not admirals (Captain Walker, Captain Scott) as the 'evil' and 'incompetent' -- Captains who were trying to stop a foothold situation in 'Conspiracy', and COMMANDER Remmic had the space slug.
Come on, guys. There are evil and incompetent admirals in TNG -- don't be lazy, get the videos of the actual incompetent admirals.
+Maddy James * facepalm * I can't believe I didn't notice that! Two the "examples" were characters that had only 4 pips, which designates the rank of Captain!
***** Yep. The point still holds at how useless the admirals were -- it is definitely valid argument. Just not a valid video clip.
Any idea how much work that would be?
Normandu Yes, because I work in media and cultural studies.
They're already spending the time to get the videos anyway -- if they'd spent an extra hour researching to make sure they were the right videos, it would be a lot less work.
If Cracked weren't so concerned about chucking out quantity of material and instead used the extra time to research their own stuff a little more for quality material, maybe the videos wouldn't be so terrible.
+Normandu they do one of these per month; even with all their other content that should be enough time to get the right clips.
Wait, so the argument is that Star Trek's society has become stifled and uncreative because there's supposedly no new tv shows to watch? I guess all of human acheivement and creativity is limited to tv shows to our generation?
Eff the fact that the Star Trek society produced a galaxy class star ship capable of traversing across the galaxy, replicating items, transporting matter through energy, and creating matter in the holodeck. No sign of creativity in this society, nope. Keep moving...
::Picard face palm::
+moonlitegram The argument is more about how Star Trek characters rely on fiction of the past (rather than their own present time). This is true in DS9 and Voyager as well.
Exactly. Creativity to the people in the video is limited to fiction. SiIly.
moonlitegram Well no, Michael Swaim makes the same point you do. The others point out that popular culture in general (at least on Earth) seems to disappear from about the 1970's to the 2370's.
And why are Star Trek characters so obsessed with popular culture of the early to mid-20th century? Bashir with James Bond, Voyager with it's Flash Gordon knock-off, etc. It's an odd enough omission that the After Hours guys felt a need to comment about it.
Maybe its because they're too busy exploring the galaxy and not arguing over stupid shit on youtube like the two of us.
Just a thought.
moonlitegram Was this an argument? Oh well, I'll adjust my attitude accordingly...
(ahem)
YOUR OPINIONS ARE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD LOL
"None of this Bakula crap" lmao still liked Enterprise, tho
That Gene-only thing doesn't really work for TNG because while he had the initial vision, it was other people who really shaped that show to become what it was, Berman included. The first three seasons, if you can stand to sit through the first, show a remarkable transition away form Gene's original vision to the visions of others. Also - Deep Space 9 is awesome.
Society has evolved and will constantly be tested, who knows the outcome > Humans have evolved, and who cares about the tests, because they always pass.
Like Luca with SW - Gene was good about coming up with the ideas, but his ideas were much better once filtered and enhanced by other talent.
Luca-only SW sucks, and Gene-only ST also sucks.
Just looking at depictions of Earth in the films Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, Star Trek (2009), and Star Trek Into Darkness all depict that humanity still has a vibrant and thriving culture where excitement is not lacking at all. This is even expressed in the original series in dialogue.
Yeah, its like we're seeing the equivalent of life on a naval vessel where we're not privy to most of the officer's or crew's personal time, then complaining that the US doesn't have a thriving arts scene.
These arguments are weak... which makes them less funny.
1) They aren't going to play pretend that they are in space doing Sci-fi things while they are busy in space doing Sci-Fi things every day... and even then, on VOYAGER, Tom Paris has Flash Gordon style Sci-Fi adventures. Instead, as an escape, they play around with how life was like before modern technology... just like how we have Renaissance Fairs, Civil War Reenactments and so forth.
2) Not everyone dresses the same. What lame argument is that? Everyone in Star Fleet has a uniform... like any normal military unit.
3) They don't all have blind faith in their society. The human conflict is what most of the stories are about. Especially the best episodes. It is as though you don't even watch the show.
Star Trek has its flaws. Lots of them. This didn't really touch on much of any.
Add in the enterprise was actually just a Science Vessel, and that much of our knowledge of history was lost after the third world war. a third world war that nearly destroyed our entire planet might make us more interested in less aggressive pursuits. and I agree bitching about the holodeck thing, do they think a NASCAR driver just plays NASCAR video games?
+Mega Mawile The Enterprise was not just a science vessel, it was a multi-role ship. It was used for diplomatic missions, scientific exploration, deep space exploration, military operations, and more. The U.S.S. Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) was the flagship, and as such was equipped to handle any mission. IIRC, other Galaxy class ships weren't configured the same as the Enterprise... They were equipped as Military/Defensive heavy cruisers, as the Federation had other ships specifically designed for Science based missions.
The Ranter What I was saying is, it was a science based vessel. It had defensive systems, yes, but Star Fleet also had ACTUAL Full on military vessels.
So yeah, we're on the same page, sorry I was not clear D:
Star Fleet being more for efficiency shares similar designs (Which I like) leaving their ships very modular which is why most would not realize that they have different ships for different purposes.
+Mega Mawile Until they encountered the Borg, no, Starfleet did not have pure military designs - all Starfleet (one word) vessels were designed to be multipurpose to varying degrees (cruiser-classes like the Constitution, Excelsior and Galaxy were all highly combat-capable for their times, but exploration and science were an equal part of the design philosophy; contrast with the Oberth, which had token weapons and was a pure science vessel). The Defiant was the first actual warship design, and even then it was officially designated an escort vessel rather than a warship.
pali1d While true, they included Next Gen, so the point stands against their point.
As does your point against them. Having your Scientists team up with Military, and your Ambassadors team up with military is really nothing new. Especially if your military is kept just as equal as diplomacy and science.
You only wish our society was as great as Star Treks
Except it's really not that great, which was the point.
What's great about it? They are all arrogant AF.
I find your view of the future to be rather limited. Gene Rodenberry envisioned a future where money and wealth were no longer the driving force for society. Exploration, knowledge, and understanding were their own rewards. Did people enjoy recreating literature and battles on the holodeck from stories in the past? Yea, and why not? You can attribute it to two things. One, personal taste and two, the fact that the audience watching it would be able to make a connection. I could go on and on, but to each their own. I am a nerd, and love star trek. Enough said.
The problem with Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future is that the Federation is a dull politically correct empty Mary Suetopia which, in the words of Edgar Friendly (the character Denis Leary played in Demolition Man), is a forty seven year old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas drinking a banana-broccoli shake singing "I'm an Oscar Myer Wiener".
also communisim, am i the oy one who boticed that? We never once see any one pay for anything, credits are only used for transactions with other species. and the Federation controls the economy, transportation, and communication. It's literally communisim
Ethan Murray Depends on what the basis for your point of view is. If you consider human history, and what communism is, there has technically not been a single true communist nation... well, ever. Plenty of nations are labeled as such, but they are either more democratic, socialist, fascist, or dictatorships. In the case of Star Trek, the Federation is technically a democracy as the Federation has an elected president, and a Federation council. Not saying you are not wrong, but you are also not completely correct.
Who doesn't like playing an RPG VR game with your friends. The holodeck provided this in the best possible way. Also a lot of people write holonovels which is like writing a game with a plot. On Voyager it was one of the things the crew got into.
Yup
The arguments that you used for Star Trek were pretty poor. I probably could have come up with better ones. For instance, the whole premise of the franchise is "to boldly go where no one has gone before". It is humanity's curiosity for exploration which is what fueled the Enterprise's adventures. People 200 years ago were doing the same thing, but there frontier was either land or water, whereas is Star Trek, space is there frontier, "the final frontier".
I also believe that in Star Trek: First Contact the issue of no currency did emerge. It was answered quite well by Picard who said "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." So a civilization without currency could very well function.
Sean Morris Comunism is a civilization with no currency and wealt is different from currency
Wolfbane971 No it's not. Communism is just a system where all money is handled and controlled by the government.
Communism is a post-class society without a state. "All money is handled and controlled by the government" is a total bastardisation of what communism (and/or socialism) is. Go and read yourself some Marx -- not that you will, but that's where you'd find something less insipid.
***** ...you're thinking of anarcho-communism, or anarchy. Communism still has a state apparatus.
It's also not classless, technically. The permanent revolution is a defense of the working class' control of the means of production, but there is still class diversity.
If we're going to be Marx nerds about it, I mean.
TheSoulHarvester
You're mistaking socialism with communism. Socialism is a state of workers' power, it is a class society. Communism is a post-state post-class mode. Do not mistake the "end" of history (communism) with the political parties or ideologies of communists or communism. I can be as communist as I like and still live in a capitalist society.
If there's a state, there's class struggle, there's class control. That's not communism. That's, dependent on who is in power, either capitalism (bourgeois control) or socialism (workers' control), or something else. It's not, however, communism.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state
This is why I think DS9 was the best-written of the series. A lot of these problems were brought up in some way.
Yes ... DS9, and even Voyager, were much more honest than the Roddenberry-lala-land that was the naiveté which was the Original Series and early Next Generation (i.e. first 2 seasons). Sorry, it's just brutally true ...
Krshwunk
it was never Naivete it was what Roddenberry hoped the future would be, it was meant as a hopeful inspiration, but of course the typical movie going audience can't handle that, they need to be reminded everyday how their shit, their world is shit and basically always will be shit, that was his naivete.
MAnnaconduit1 No, audiences don't need "to be reminded how they're shit." What a low view of humanity you have. They don't need to be fed an overly naive vision of the future either. Rather, they should be given a story that deals with serious problems which are then heroically overcome (DS9, Voyager, and I would say the latter part of TNG are like that ... the Original Series and early TNG insist too much that the world of the Federation has attained unrealistic perfection ... it's naive).
MAnnaconduit1 If things seem too good, it breaks suspension of disbelief. That's not people needing to feel terrible, that's just people not being fully engaged with the work - in which case, the fault lies with the work. Incidentally, I very much like NG and OS.
But DS9 is just so much better. Er well, eventually at least.
Krshwunk
i'm not given much to work with therefore i excuse my view of humanity.
This ancient video pisses me off, because none of these people have possibly watched the shows. All of these things are addressed! No art? They spend a stupid amount of time talking about art and artists. No war or progress? Even if you exclude half the canon (later TNG and DS9) because the original creator was dying there were multiple serious wars and conflicts, and the technology was clearly progressing.
Star Trek's major worlds aren't a sad dystopia where there's nothing left to do, but places where we are all free from subsistence needs, to improve yourself and do something new and interesting, or just enjoy life how you please.
Or if you need a material *challenge* just become a colonist, settling new worlds 'with your own two hands' and whatever sort of system you want to use.
I know these aren't supposed to be well-reasoned and rebuttal-proof arguments... but could they at least have had one that wasn't laughably ignorant?
Agreed. This is the first After Hours video I felt wasn't well-made or even funny. They clearly did little to no research, and every argument they made is easily rebutted.
I know! It bothered me so much that the image they showed of "everyone wearing those stupid onesies" was an image of the academy. I remember at least one example of Picard meeting a long lost lady love in an earth cafe and everyone was wearing weird futuristic pastel outfits. Not to mention all the times Diana Troy gets creative with her uniform.
Exactly this entire video was me scowling harder and looking shocked with each one of their stupid arguments.
Yeah! Like how they said they go to the 30th century. No, just no. I mean, I've only just found star trek, but I know that is just ridiculous.
at least they have holodecks with interactive porn.. and that's the real prize of the star trek universe
bad argument, the reason there are only stories from the past is because the show is more a reflection of our own current society than the future. besides cant really have depictions of great future fiction before it has been written, it would lack substance if you pretended to and be unrelatable to the 21st century audeience
Furthermore, they rarely showed any stories from now or the recent past because the TV show itself couldn't get/wouldn't pay for the rights. The number one things they show on the holodeck, more than anything else? Shakespeare and Sherlock Holms, AKA Public Domain works.
evvvvvvery argument against star trek here is thin as paper lol. you guys need to pick up the writing a bit.
the whole idea of these videos is over-analysis of everything we all know this isn't what star trek about. obviously a butthurt trekkie
Kieran Doyle not really. My point was the over analyzing wasn't close enough to actually merit humor, at least to me. It just wasn't that funny.
edenscancer
- Yeah, it's like they were bored and had no real content so they just sat around and bullshitted out this episode.
Some of their statements were downright ridiculous, like claiming they all act alike and do what they're told. Kirk regularly followed his own instincts even when it put him in front of a Tribunal, and Spock made his own decisions.
I agree with this, I haven't watched many episodes off this but the others I have watched seem to use more facts in them. Here, however, they are just saying complete bullsh*t. Like when they are talking about the fact that nothing was made after the 20th century, this only appeared so in the show because if they did show/play anything newer, they would have to pay royalties. Most of the music that they used in the show, not the stuff that the composers wrote for the atmosphere, was in the public domain and free to use.
every one of these arguments are extremely valid and you are all super nerds for defending this super shitty horrible show star trek sucks and the enterprise is an evil dictatorship its like america they give them just enough to feel like they are helping them when they are really just crippling them
"every federation admiral in TNG is..." *shows 3 characters, none of whom are actually admirals, as examples*
I’m going to miss this show. I realized that Cracked is no more about a week ago and since then, that fact pops into my head and I get a little bummed out. I really hope they work something out where, even if it’s not called After Hours, these 4 still meet up and make a episode occasionally.
Micheal tried to restart the format at a website called Little Beans, but that blew up, too. Katie makes arty stuff and is on Instagram. Dan writes for a show. Soren dematerialized and rejoined his people in the Ether. They all do stuff, just not this, unfortunately.
"What other societies are like that?" "North Korea" "Apple Stores"
I slightly pictured him as an Apple fanboy but I kinda knew better at the same time
The United States of America
Wow......DS9 solved every problem they brought up
That may or may not be true but they specified "Original Series" and "The Next Generation". No one would have been able to use it in the argument anyway.
Especially in that one of the entire points of the series was tackling the problems in the Federation's society head-on. Just listen to anything Eddington says in the series.
DS9's by far my favourite Trek series.
dragoniguana While there were some good eps in DS9, it became really bad eventually. I stopped watching around the time lieutenant Dax was dating Worf and there were eps about how glad she was he was 'such a loving father.'
Nah, in my opinion, it was great throughout. Dax and Worf were good together (at the very least least, a hell of a lot better than Troi and Worf). It got really good around season three, and just didn't stop being awesome. The Dominion War arc in particular was incredible.
But I do know DS9 certainly isn't for everyone. Definitely not your typical Star Trek.
Don't get me wrong, I remember some fantastic eps from DS9; but I really didn't like the soap opera it turned into. I really didn't watch it in order to see love and romance, there's enough stuff on TV with that.
"live short and be impoverished, bitch" is the best line I've ever hear Michael utter
I've always seen Troi as the Political Officer myself - ensuring no one thinks the wrong things. Add to that all the Federation people with power and influence are military officers... Can't be unseen.
Soren's final argument comparing Q's approval of Picard and the Federation to how cult leader's view their cults would only make sense if Picard and the rest of the Enterprise were lying about Q, which they aren't,
But what if everyone in the Federation is also following the same cult?
It doesn't matter, Q is literally a force within the show that thinks Picard and the rest of the Federation is the shit. We don't take North Korea's statements about their dictators being firebreathing demigods seriously because they are provably untrue, but Q is real within the show. So like Swaim said, God is cool with it.
KingofSting19 But I bet North Koreans might take their dictators being firebreathing demigods seriously. Has anyone else not in the Federation actually encountered Q?
Probably, it's Q. He loves attention.
There is an episode where Q hides on the Enterprise from another alien race because they want to kill him for something crappy he did. He was a jerk to everyone.
I get that this is a joke, but the lack of understanding of Star Trek lore presented in this is.... so, so depressing. There's a reason why mankind is that way, you ignored the fact that WW3 and the super soldier wars almost destroyed humanity
Ok Nerd
@@sameenshakya5188 he has a point. These writers do misrepresent things all the time
@@michaeliv284 heaven forbid they leave some stuff out for the sake of entertainment…
@@vaIe_ excusing ignorance of a subject they made a choice to cover by name calling, classic internet. Perhaps they should review things they're knowledgeable on instead of hoping their ignorance.... because entertainment.
Smh
@@vaIe_ It's not "some stuff," it's well known Star Trek history that even most casual viewers are at least somewhat aware of, because Star Trek's arguably most infamous villain, is one of those genetic superman. _KHAAAAAAAAAN!_
_distant echo_
_khaaaaaaaan!_
"I am Guard 48 and this is Guard 28." "That's right."
Well that was frustrating to watch. The show is about exploration, and someone should clue in these four about that because it clears up a lot of their misconceptions. Also, humanity is not portrayed as perfect constantly throughout the series, and is stated over and over as striving to be better. How anyone could watch it and not know that is mind boggling. Calling the universe of the show 'horrifying' is literally calling our real universe horrifying because the federation is just NASA in the future. The utopia theme comes from our first contact being with the vulcans and humans of the ST universe want to be more like them because they seem to have shit figured out.....like long distance space travel, for one thing.
You realize... it's just a comedy show right?
Nnneeeeerrrrrrrrdddd!!!
It's a fan theory, most of those are easily countered anyway. The fun is in coming up with them (or in this case, screwing with Michael).
Holly Totallyarealname I thought the fact that Star Trek was secretly horrifying was common knowledge by this point. I never saw it coming from the Federation (though I'm sure there's probably some corruption in the system), the horror came from the horrifying stuff they would very often come across. Stuff like the Borg, the many reality-breaking anomalies, the bizarre alien beings that would butcher and toy with the crew due to simple misunderstanding or curiosity, the more-mundane alien races who would do that exact thing because of war or necessity, the numerous alien afflictions and plagues, and even stuff that boarders on the paranormal.
So their main point to say star trek is a bored universe is that everyone dresses the same and acts the same. Well the only people we really get to see are part of a military, so no surprise everyones wearing the same uniform. And if everyone acted the same there would be no different characters (which if that was the case, it wouldnt be as successful as it was.)
Bull. Deep Space Nine dealt with every issue raised here.
+Eamonn Which is why they conveniently ignored it. I don't think DS9 dealt with it as well as they should have... in a lot of cases... But DS9 is, IMHO, still the most entertaining and thought-provoking Star Trek series to date.
I just hate what they did with Sisko in the final episode. :(
+CodeStation Garak was one of the best Trek characters ever.
sakar181 Yes! I absolutely loved Garak. I think one of my favorite scenes is the banter between Garak and Quark. They are at the bar, and it's in one of the later seasons. I don't remember which episode; but Quark is comparing Humans to Root Beer (which he is drinking) and saying how "Cloy and bubbly" it is... and Garak agrees, adding, "It's INSIDIOUS..."
The delivery was great. Wonderfully round characters in that show.
+CodeStation They didn't conveniently ignore it. They limited it to just Roddenberry creations which limited it to TNG and TOS. No DS9, Voyager, or ENT.... Which is probably a good thing because Voyager and ENT would have made them make this at least an hour long...
+Eamonn I loved DS9, the characters had so much more depth and diversity instead of just being a bunch of squeaky clean Star Fleet types.
0:55 All hail the majestic John de Lancie!!!
Soren & Daniel have a podcast together!
(Quick Question with Soren & Dan)
So correct about the prime directive, It's a good idea on paper but in practice what exactly is so moral about doing noting to prevent the destruction of a civilization?
Honestly saving some primitive culture at the risk of them developing a religion out of you sounds like a better alternative than callously letting them die.
The Prime Directive is about two things. One, like you mentioned, becoming an accidental religious figure, thus altering irreversibly the fate of a culture, yes, but perhaps most importantly Two, it's about not upsetting the balance of power in technologically inferior species by introducing technologies that are severely beyond that of the species in question, especially where multiple cultures or species inhabit the same star system, or in many cases, the same planet. Imagine if Nazi Germany got their hands on a single replicator, or if the McCarthyists had witnessed a ship of unknown origin accelerating into high orbit at a speed never before predicted. Or more to our own understood technologies, even in a tiny timescale. Imagine if the Maxim gun was developed only 30 or 40 years earlier. Imagine how much bloodier the American Civil War would have been if every soldier had their hands on an accurate-ish automatic weapon. Imagine how World War I would have gone if the US had developed atomic weapons during that period instead of during WWII.
As they mentioned in the video, they broke the Prime Directive several times when they weighed the moral implications and found that they had no choice but to try to act in as unassuming or unseen way as possible.
Although the prime derective says tp never interfere with other civilizations, you'd think they'd put "unless they are all going do die" at the end of that sentence.
Craig Cooper
Still, numbers go against that. 7 Billion deaths and the end of civilization, or just a few thousand spread over thousands of years? Also the enterprise can still pop down and say that they are not gods but good folk. Voyager dealt with that in an episode....half assed but still dealt with it.
Georg Veramme So did TNG in the episode "Who Watches The Watchers".
Picard is viewed as a god like figure after he is seen by a primitive alien race as reviving people from the dead. Picard invites their most intelligent member of the society to the Enterprise they can find to explain to her it is just their superior technology and tools. She STILL thinks he is a god even after he insists he is not.
He ends up having to take a fatal wound by an arrow to prove he is indeed mortal and thus, powerless as a god. It's a good thing he had an artificial heart or he would have died.
The existence of this show debunks their premise that without money as a motivator there is no creativity; as I am sure they sat around prior to its conceptualization doing exactly what they do on the show before they had the means to monetize it.
One problem with that hypothesis. They (the characters) are actors, and everything they are saying was written by someone else. Gotta watch the credits man. However, were that not the case, your point would be perfect.
As a Trekkie this hurts me a little every time. This is the only Cracked After Hours that has almost succeeded in ruining something I love.
Then you clearly don't know a lot about Star Trek. Everything they say is easily shot down with actual knowledge from the show. They just avoid mentioning it because that wouldn't make in their eyes a good video. Keep the faith Claramata.
Don't because they completely ignore the Eugenics war, and its affect on culture.
i get that it's a joke, but the holodeck was a mere diversion from their tireless pursuit of exploring the universe for the rewards of knowledge
Ironically, the only series to point out the dystopia Aspects of Star Trek (homogenization of cultures, etc...), was DS9.
+Brother Malachai And that homogenisation is happening in the real world. TV, movies and other media tend to wash away our cultural and even regional differences.
The Batman
IKR? It even mocks it at times (IE: Rural people).
+Brother Malachai try this
its fowl
and you know the worst part
after awhile you start to like it
its fizzy its bubbly
its like hte feederations and humans
they call it rootbeer, huemans
6:10 Everything wrong with First World Countries in 5 seconds.
Here's my view on it. In the Star Trek universe, there seems to be a deep respect for the classic works of the past. I would say more so than we have today. Think about that for a second, if you had access to a holodeck, would you be reenacting Shakespeare or pretending to be Dick Tracy?
There's also subtle bits of art and literature spread out in the numerous Star Trek series. There's also the fact that you mainly see the Star Trek universe through the eyes of military officers. They're millions of light years from home, exploring the universe and fighting wars. You don't really get to see much of the universe beyond that.
Who's to say that there aren't great writers, artists, and actors in that century? Just because you don't get to see it in your very limited view of that universe, doesn't mean it's not there. Hell, there's art hanging in Picard's ready room that definitely didn't come from the 20th century. Someone had to paint that. I cannot see a society so respectful and interested in classic works of art and literature not creating new art themselves. That's not even getting into the fact that there seems to be a LOT of musicians on the Enterprise during TNG.
As for the society not differing a whole lot, that's not true either. Even from the limited view we get from the show, it's easy to see that there are a lot of differing cultures, intermingling between cultures, and differing ideas and morals within those cultures. I'd Say that Star Trek is probably the single most diverse show ever made because of the hundreds of different species and cultures portrayed. Even on Earth in the Human race there is a lot of variety. Just to name a few, you have the Native Americans who have kept their traditions alive, the New Orleans citizens who have embraced the cities history, and the Frenchmen who still makes wine the old way.
They have a point with the admirals. Bastards.
The prime directive has a noble goal, but I agree that they do sometimes take it too far. As shown in the show, it is sometimes ok to break that rule which is perfectly reasonable as long as the spirit of the law is observed and followed as closely as possible.
They are wrong about the Federation budding into other species business because they're bored. The prime directive prevents that on new species, and any species that expresses their wish to be left alone will be left alone, which Picard himself explained at one point.
The Federation was never meant to be depicted as a utopia, a perfect world, because it's not. That is admittedly shown numerous times through the different series, especially Deep Space 9. Those faults are made well known, they're discussed, and they're dealt with in different ways.
These have shown back up in my feed.
Man I miss these.
Can't they bring them back as old people sitting around in a park?
I would not agree with this video, but there is one thing that I always found creepy in Star Trek, namely transporters. In order to transport someone, you have to scan him/her , then the person gets destroyed and re-assembled at a different place. So the original person is pretty much dead. They just _believe_ that the person materializing is the original, because everyone _feels_ like the original person and tells all the others "Hey, I am totally the original person!". In fact the Star Trek universe is full with copies of dead persons, who will soon die as well to be replaced by another copy.
that is in fact a episode ;)
Shadowtechnik
Yeah, I know, they talk about such things in the show. And they even added Heisenberg-compensators to counter the uncertainty principle. But I remember an episode where the inventor of the technology just brushes this notion of and calls it "nonsense". So in the end they _still_ could all be copies of dead people, just believing they are the original. :D
yeah
Just to interject. _Realm of Fear_ (a Mr Barkley episode) showed that wasn't entirely true how transporters worked.
There's actually a sci-fi short story called "Think Like A Dinosaur" (which I believe was turned into an episode from the 1990s "Outer Limits") about what happens when there's a transporter malfunction and the "original" isn't destroyed.
And the prize for "Biggest Douche Move of 2012 goes to... Soren Bowie, Daniel O'Brien, and Katie Willert for 'Introducing Michael to Scientology' ".
The main thing that worries me is the teleporter-is-suicide problem.
The thing is, if he had included voyager and deep space nine, he would have absolutely proved all of there points wrong
This has got to be the worst informed conversation to ever occur on recorded video.
Because they're making fun of your cult leader?
UltimateThanos shapow #reckt
***** Sounds like brainwashed talk to me. *trollface*
***** same here. I mean, I know it's the whole point of the show, but cracked always talks about everything as though it exists in a bubble, completely disregarding the fact that star trek was made from the late 60's to the late 90's...it wasn't a documentary made in the 23 century. They could only pull from pre- 60's-90's works of media like art and music in their references, so to complain that this indicates some fault in federation society is ridiculous and forcefully myopic. like I said, I get that that's the point, to argue unnecessarily about things, but this time it was just done poorly I think.
TehTezMan Rationalization!
I wish I could sit at that table and pwn all of there arguments... 1: Mankind has advanced pass greed and money. They are apart of a entire federation of other cultures and ways of life. Citizens motivation is anything! They have everything they would ever need to follow there dreams. They literally can be whatever they want in life. Some aspire to make there mark in the world as a scientist having there name live one! Some aspire to lead a ship or a entire fleet of ships on missions to advance science help people and defend entire worlds! When the Federation is not under attack they spend there time learning a bout the universe. And its citizens spend there time having family's and living a good life.
Agreed. They are essentially arguing that we need to get sick and starve to death to be happy. It's absurd. I realize they are just trying to be funny but it sounds like sour grapes.
I love their comment about how everyone wears the same thing, that's like complaining that everyone on the millitary base is wearing the same camo and calling it a dystopia.
I dunno. I know that on my days off I spend my time watching TV, playing MMOs and going to movies. How much worse would it be if I didn't have the motivation of money forcing me to be productive? I have a feeling I'm not alone in this. I think that if I lived in the Star Trek universe I'd march into a holodeck and lock the doors behind me.
I know that the only reason why I spend so much time entertaining myself is becasue I'm so depressed from money problems or worn out from work...
-According to Star Trek canon, I thought there were wars up until first contact which is when the Federation was formed, like a huge gap in culture creation, maybe that is why they enjoy older media?
-Breaking the prime directive once in a while and ensign Ro defecting shows they don't always blindly follow.
-Admirals are evil because the many threats to the Federation like to infiltrate management....for some reason.
the main rule the prime directive is the the rule that is constantly broken on both TNG and the og Star Trek.A world with money and magic boxes that feed you as well as gives you stuff would be a world full of people with no motivation bored out of their skulls.
"They don't rebel because nothings wrong". North Koreans are told that every other country, especially the people in the America, are starving even worse than them. They don't know that anything is wrong
Every argument on this video was complete weak sauce.
- they had functional clothes, an avoidance of current music and movies in an attempt to NOT DATE THE SHOW. That simple folks.
- When you "HAVE EVERYTHING" ie the BASIC fundamentals of life like food, water and education, escapist ENTERTAINMENT is the last thing on MY list of shit to do. How about exploring the mysteries of science and the COSMOS instead of wasting your life looking at CRACKED videos on RUclips?
- a ship with kids WAS silly and an idea that was later discarded, but it came from a great intention that was hardly evil. AND the Enterprise was NOT A WARSHIP.
- if you think that building a utopia by defeating famine, educating the masses and freeing mankind to pursue its own betterment results in a BORING SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT then YOU'RE whats wrong with America.
Check please.
KirksMerkin You don't understand how human nature works. People don't just have what they need, they have anything they could ever want, which would erase all motivation.
The point though is that people are motivated by science and exploration, which is still developing in Star Trek. Star Trek is a show about "what if" people were better
Also, they said “there’s no war” completely glossing over conflicts with the Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Ferengi, etc. TOS had a focus on the Klingon warships causing havoc
when they say no war, they mean on Earth and among humans
"So to be clear...""You're not, but go on"
2:00 She said 30th century, this is the 24th century we are talking about.
Knew he was going to have to pay for everyone's meals...oops, spoiler alert, lol.
As a person living in the third world, I find it annoying when people enjoying the privileges of living in the developed world smugly declare that having one's needs met "destroys motivation". When your strongest motivation is holding on to a crappy job because the unemployment rate is very high -- in a place where unemployment means certain hunger -- or when your thoughts are almost entirely about how you will obtain your next meal, you have very little time to be philosophical, to mull over the Big Questions, or to enjoy high art (because the bread and circus are enough company for your miseries). I have friends and relatives living in the developed world, and I can say that their quality of life is just better. In an affluent, spacefaring society, I predict that the quality of life would be even better. In a society that has solved many of the problems pestering even the developed countries of today, the citizens will not waste their lives on some artificial and arbitrary problems of current economics but will fill their time with great art, good philosophy, and boldly going into places where no one has gone before.
You guys needed a ringer for this episode. Someone who could quote the shield modulation frequency of a Galaxy Class starship. I was trying to argue all of these points but you couldn't hear me!
Of course, the Federation is a military organization, meaning there's little to no actual data about normal people except in their relatively few interactions with the authority figures we're following in the episodes.
The Federation is not a military organization. Starfleet is.
:)