The way people talk about war so matter of factly, as if it's not about actual human lives just sickens me to my core. "it's not a moral question, the amount of money we spent on this thing, it would be hard to justify not using it" What a way to talk about killing people
It seems that Americans were almost irrationally angry at this point in the war, especially when you consider that at the same time Japanese-Americans had been rounded up and put in camps for the duration by executive order. I think most of the country also wanted blood lust revenge for the attack on Pearl harbor.
Humanity is closer to nuclear annihilation since the Cuba crisis and hence the movement of the doomsday clock. The cavalier attitude of these two morons exemplifies how easily a nuclear war could begin and quickly escalate, unfortunately M.A.D. doesn’t seem to be enough of a deterrent these days.
Arguments about ending the war aside, the use of the bombs is a blot on collective human history. Whether the war could have been ended quickly without the bomb is really unknown.
I agree and will add that there are almost innumerable "blots on collective humanity". The sad truth is that if we have it and it's bad, we will use it.
@@albin2232 Yes, it does seem that way but let us not forget the wonderful things people do for each other. Love prevails on Earth, even though there are very violent, destructive interludes in between. Look upward and let downwards take care of itself.
The leader of the aerial assault on Pearl Harbor Mitsuo Fuchida, became postwar life long friends with Jacob DeShazer, bombardier of B-25 number 16 of.the Doolittle Raiders.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen not because of their strategic military value, but for their lack of conventional bombing damage. Think about that. They were an experiment to test the effectiveness of nuclear weapons on real people. Every other fact is secondary to this. I understand why the American press doesn't want anyone to think about this. The plutonium core bomb dropped on Nagasaki is still used in modern thermal nuclear weapons as the detonator. The damage done to Nagasaki was the equivalent of the damage done by a blasting cap. Modern nuclear weapons are like the brick of C4.
First time I have been so disappointed. Tuned in to hear some nuance and context about the bombs along with timely lessons for today and instead got some of the strangest, tone deaf comments I’ve heard on the subject. Atomic weapons were a “blessing” for the world as they gave us MAD? And just in case this was a slip of the tongue Thomas actually repeated it! I just want to remind Walter and his guest that humanity narrowly escaped full nuclear cataclysm by sheer luck and a few well-placed individuals who chose not to press the button, quite literally (Stanislav Petrov in 1983 most dramatically). It’s not that I’m unmindful of how the option to use atomic weapons went head to head with a truly horrific set choices to end the war. But I’ve come to believe that the use of the weapons to instantly vaporise two cities and their inhabitants cannot be thought of or discussed as business as usual. I’m actually writing this from Tokyo where the TV is discussing the atomic bombings on the Nagasaki. Japan has a much more nuanced view of these things than was evidenced here. Very poor. Why did Oppenheimer and Einstein have these feelings of anguish if it was an open and shut case of prosecution of war aims? Because humanity opened the doors to hell with these bombings and, far from being a blessing, they have cursed the survivors and world ever since. We would’ve been better served by a nuanced discussion of the cold realities and domino effect which led us there in 1945, together with a reflection on the horrific consequences for the victims and for our world right down to this day. Extremely disappointed.
Japanese themselves justify the raping of 80,000 women in Nankin alone. Bayonetting babies. murdered civilian total more than Hiroshima-Nagasaki combined.
The incendiary bombing of Tokyo on March 9/10 1945, created the single largest firestorm in recorded history, killing 80-130,000 people, mostly civilians. .. The observation of the Commander of the mission, Curtis LeMay: “should we lose the war we’ll be tried as war criminals”
Victory is written by the victors. It's hard to access the future results of your actions in a "life or death" situation. Having the massive advantage of time, it is a good for historians to have the trait of Humility, because the human factors of seeing how the war started, the loss of comrades, and the saving of future lives is a huge Moral imperative to a combat commander.
7 of the United States 8 five star Army and Naval officers are on record in 1945 stating: 1. The atomic bombs were militarily unnecessary 2. The atomic bombings were morally reprehensible 3. Or both….Generals Dwight Eisenhower, Douglas McArthur, Henry “Hap” Arnold, and Admirals William Leahy, Chester Nimitz, Earnest King, and William Halsey.
"We made it. We had to use it. We found a reason to justify why this was ok. And then we reinforced our decision with the justification that they would have suffered worse had we done something else." Sick...
Always enjoy listening to Evan Thomas especially doing political commentary. Haven't heard much from him since "Inside Washington" went off the air which is too bad.
I haven't read Wise Men, but I have read all of the books written by Richard Rhodes about the atom bomb and the hydrogen bomb. The last book in that series I believe is called the Twilight of the bombs. For good reason!
@@FiveBlackFootedFerrets I toured the Atomic Bomb museum in Nagasaki. Beautiful city, lovely people. I still was/ am not sorry that we bombed them. The museum is mostly them trying to make everyone feel sorry for them. There's nothing about Nanking or Pearl Harbor, just self pity.
@@chuckupd I never intended to support the idea that we should not have dropped the bombs. I wasn't even born until 1955. And no matter how many accounts of history at the time you read there's always a little bias. I think it was necessary to end the war and save American lives. And it actually has kept the peace for 7 decades and counting. No one in their right mind could imagine using the unimaginable mega tonnage of today's weapons. So the mutually assured destruction doctrine managed to keep mankind from obliterating ourselves.
Japan was out of oil by August 1945. Running out of food. All of their cities were damaged or in ruins. Russia had just attacked. Japan's main criteria for surrender was to keep the Emperor - and they still have a hereditary Emperor today. There's no way the US would have invaded like they did on D-day, that's fantasy - and it's also General Eisenhower's informed view at the time. The war was over, even if not yet officially declared.
“I am sure that at the end of the world, in the last millisecond of the Earth’s existence, Man will see what we have just seen.” - George Kistiakowsky, after seeing the first atomic test “Trinity” July 16, 1945 (Kistiakowsky was in charge of the non-nuclear explosives section of the Manhattan Project which designed the “implosion” detonation system. He spent his final years campaigning for nuclear disarmament.)
I wonder, had the war extended in Germany, would they have used this weapon? We must realize , whatever the justifications both sides are harmed in the long run due to collateral radiation.
Radiation travels. The Chernobyl incident traveled the winds and radiation showed up in the milk from dairy cows. The decimation of South Pacific Islands in the testing is needing broader coverage. The poisoning of US army members purposefully placed moderate range at explosions in Nevada proved fatal to many. There is NO safe exposure amount. The “upgrades -$$$$$- to make ‘pinpoint’ strikes to take out 4-6 block segments will still poison the areas. The crazy monies spent towards these upgrades could fund veteran care, national health care, housing the houseless, and more. The ludicrous notion that killing women and children saved us a tale they want believed. Surrender was imminent, the bombs were dropped because it was the last moments to test them on major population centers. Our cruelty began a weapons * war that is spreading onwards. [ARMS ARE FOR HUGGING] 🌍🌏🌍🌏🌈🌸🌾🌲
Great interview. Walter, when you said, "... Now, you're in the middle of a book about the dropping of the bomb..." are you referring to a new book that Evan Thomas is currently writing? Any details on when it might be released or its title? Thanks!
Japan, Ger, & Rus were all trying to build their own bomb. US got there first. Japan raped 80,000 women in Nankin alone. stabbed babies. boiled them alive. more civlian murders than hiroshima & nagasaki.
My father worked on the atomic bomb as a nuclear engineer I’m very proud of what he did and yes we did need to drop the bomb. I believe the reason we were in such a hurry was because of Nazi Germany even though he mentions Russia. Nazi Germany had gone into Russia and everywhere else and could’ve come to get us next.
Nazi Germany surrendered on May 7, 1945, 3 months prior to the US dropping nuclear bombs on Japan. What is the point you’re making about needing to drop the bomb because of Nazi Germany? Or are you just referring to the hurry to develop The Bomb, not to drop it?
The way people talk about war so matter of factly, as if it's not about actual human lives just sickens me to my core.
"it's not a moral question, the amount of money we spent on this thing, it would be hard to justify not using it"
What a way to talk about killing people
Yeah... that line got to me too. The amount of money spent means "We can't not do it". What the F kind of logic is that?
All war plans, tactics, and strategies, go out the window as soon as the first bullet is fired.
It seems that Americans were almost irrationally angry at this point in the war, especially when you consider that at the same time Japanese-Americans had been rounded up and put in camps for the duration by executive order. I think most of the country also wanted blood lust revenge for the attack on Pearl harbor.
Humanity is closer to nuclear annihilation since the Cuba crisis and hence the movement of the doomsday clock. The cavalier attitude of these two morons exemplifies how easily a nuclear war could begin and quickly escalate, unfortunately M.A.D. doesn’t seem to be enough of a deterrent these days.
Even the female announcer in the beginning of this seems way too cheerful about it.
Arguments about ending the war aside, the use of the bombs is a blot on collective human history. Whether the war could have been ended quickly without the bomb is really unknown.
I agree and will add that there are almost innumerable "blots on collective humanity". The sad truth is that if we have it and it's bad, we will use it.
@@grantsmythe8625 It does seem to be that way, Grant.
@@albin2232 Yes, it does seem that way but let us not forget the wonderful things people do for each other. Love prevails on Earth, even though there are very violent, destructive interludes in between. Look upward and let downwards take care of itself.
@@grantsmythe8625 Agree 👍
The leader of the aerial assault on Pearl Harbor Mitsuo Fuchida, became postwar life long friends with Jacob DeShazer, bombardier of B-25 number 16 of.the Doolittle Raiders.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen not because of their strategic military value, but for their lack of conventional bombing damage. Think about that. They were an experiment to test the effectiveness of nuclear weapons on real people. Every other fact is secondary to this. I understand why the American press doesn't want anyone to think about this.
The plutonium core bomb dropped on Nagasaki is still used in modern thermal nuclear weapons as the detonator. The damage done to Nagasaki was the equivalent of the damage done by a blasting cap. Modern nuclear weapons are like the brick of C4.
First time I have been so disappointed.
Tuned in to hear some nuance and context about the bombs along with timely lessons for today and instead got some of the strangest, tone deaf comments I’ve heard on the subject. Atomic weapons were a “blessing” for the world as they gave us MAD? And just in case this was a slip of the tongue Thomas actually repeated it! I just want to remind Walter and his guest that humanity narrowly escaped full nuclear cataclysm by sheer luck and a few well-placed individuals who chose not to press the button, quite literally (Stanislav Petrov in 1983 most dramatically).
It’s not that I’m unmindful of how the option to use atomic weapons went head to head with a truly horrific set choices to end the war. But I’ve come to believe that the use of the weapons to instantly vaporise two cities and their inhabitants cannot be thought of or discussed as business as usual. I’m actually writing this from Tokyo where the TV is discussing the atomic bombings on the Nagasaki. Japan has a much more nuanced view of these things than was evidenced here. Very poor.
Why did Oppenheimer and Einstein have these feelings of anguish if it was an open and shut case of prosecution of war aims? Because humanity opened the doors to hell with these bombings and, far from being a blessing, they have cursed the survivors and world ever since.
We would’ve been better served by a nuanced discussion of the cold realities and domino effect which led us there in 1945, together with a reflection on the horrific consequences for the victims and for our world right down to this day.
Extremely disappointed.
Nagasaki and Hiroshima paved the way, a taboo was broken.
For what it’s worth, the US remains the only country to have detonated a nuclear device in space. “Starfish Prime” 7/9/62
@@kevinjenner9502 Good stuff!
It makes me sick to hear such blatant justification of targeting and killing children. There are always other options.
Japanese themselves justify the raping of 80,000 women in Nankin alone. Bayonetting babies. murdered civilian total more than Hiroshima-Nagasaki combined.
Mr father too. I mighrhave been so different. Thank God for all of our servicemen.
Great interview
@AmanpourandCompany please upload the recent interview with Neal Katyal. Thank you
The incendiary bombing of Tokyo on March 9/10 1945, created the single largest firestorm in recorded history, killing 80-130,000 people, mostly civilians. .. The observation of the Commander of the mission, Curtis LeMay: “should we lose the war we’ll be tried as war criminals”
Victory is written by the victors. It's hard to access the future results of your actions in a "life or death" situation. Having the massive advantage of time, it is a good for historians to have the trait of Humility, because the human factors of seeing how the war started, the loss of comrades, and the saving of future lives is a huge Moral imperative to a combat commander.
7 of the United States 8 five star Army and Naval officers are on record in 1945 stating: 1. The atomic bombs were militarily unnecessary 2. The atomic bombings were morally reprehensible 3. Or both….Generals Dwight Eisenhower, Douglas McArthur, Henry “Hap” Arnold, and Admirals William Leahy, Chester Nimitz, Earnest King, and William Halsey.
"We made it. We had to use it. We found a reason to justify why this was ok. And then we reinforced our decision with the justification that they would have suffered worse had we done something else." Sick...
Always enjoy listening to Evan Thomas especially doing political commentary. Haven't heard much from him since "Inside Washington" went off the air which is too bad.
I read Wise Men when it came out! It's a great book. Post WW2 is a key moment in human history.
I haven't read Wise Men, but I have read all of the books written by Richard Rhodes about the atom bomb and the hydrogen bomb. The last book in that series I believe is called the Twilight of the bombs. For good reason!
@@FiveBlackFootedFerrets I toured the Atomic Bomb museum in Nagasaki. Beautiful city, lovely people. I still was/ am not sorry that we bombed them. The museum is mostly them trying to make everyone feel sorry for them. There's nothing about Nanking or Pearl Harbor, just self pity.
@@chuckupd I never intended to support the idea that we should not have dropped the bombs. I wasn't even born until 1955. And no matter how many accounts of history at the time you read there's always a little bias. I think it was necessary to end the war and save American lives. And it actually has kept the peace for 7 decades and counting. No one in their right mind could imagine using the unimaginable mega tonnage of today's weapons. So the mutually assured destruction doctrine managed to keep mankind from obliterating ourselves.
Please keep being how it has been. Be America. Don't change. That's the best thing for the rest of the world.
Japan was out of oil by August 1945. Running out of food. All of their cities were damaged or in ruins. Russia had just attacked. Japan's main criteria for surrender was to keep the Emperor - and they still have a hereditary Emperor today. There's no way the US would have invaded like they did on D-day, that's fantasy - and it's also General Eisenhower's informed view at the time. The war was over, even if not yet officially declared.
You need to read what the Japanese leadership said. Even after the second bomb they still thought they could win the war.
The short segment on Trueman's diary entry is intriguing. Was he lied to about women and children, was he delusional, or was he lying to history ?
It was Necessary to Drop it on Civilians!
Irs a shame of reality. The bravest cannot be negotiated with.
“I am sure that at the end of the world, in the last millisecond of the Earth’s existence, Man will see what we have just seen.”
- George Kistiakowsky, after seeing the first atomic test “Trinity” July 16, 1945
(Kistiakowsky was in charge of the non-nuclear explosives section of the Manhattan Project which designed the “implosion” detonation system. He spent his final years campaigning for nuclear disarmament.)
I wonder, had the war extended in Germany, would they have used this weapon? We must realize , whatever the justifications both sides are harmed in the long run due to collateral radiation.
Eisenhower threatened use in Korea.
Radiation travels. The Chernobyl incident traveled the winds and radiation showed up in the milk from dairy cows. The decimation of South Pacific Islands in the testing is needing broader coverage. The poisoning of US army members purposefully placed moderate range at explosions in Nevada proved fatal to many. There is NO safe exposure amount. The “upgrades -$$$$$- to make ‘pinpoint’ strikes to take out 4-6 block segments will still poison the areas. The crazy monies spent towards these upgrades could fund veteran care, national health care, housing the houseless, and more. The ludicrous notion that killing women and children saved us a tale they want believed. Surrender was imminent, the bombs were dropped because it was the last moments to test them on major population centers. Our cruelty began a weapons * war that is spreading onwards. [ARMS ARE FOR HUGGING] 🌍🌏🌍🌏🌈🌸🌾🌲
They would never have nuked Germany because they were white and were kith and kin to the enormous German diaspora in the US.
The dropping of the bombs was for Stalin. To let him know what we possessed. BTW who reached Berlin first? Russia or America?
Good History Channel interview. This is thin academics, though.
Great interview. Walter, when you said, "... Now, you're in the middle of a book about the dropping of the bomb..." are you referring to a new book that Evan Thomas is currently writing? Any details on when it might be released or its title? Thanks!
The wise men was a good book. Read it.
Glad this generation of Twitter whinners in the comment section wasn't around in WW2. They would be giving food trucks to the Nazis, and Uber eats.
Japan, Ger, & Rus were all trying to build their own bomb. US got there first. Japan raped 80,000 women in Nankin alone. stabbed babies. boiled them alive. more civlian murders than hiroshima & nagasaki.
This is all happy horse ka-ka
Wow I am supprized they kept history and didn't try to wash it off as not necessary like so many do. Great segment
My father worked on the atomic bomb as a nuclear engineer I’m very proud of what he did and yes we did need to drop the bomb. I believe the reason we were in such a hurry was because of Nazi Germany even though he mentions Russia. Nazi Germany had gone into Russia and everywhere else and could’ve come to get us next.
Nazi Germany surrendered on May 7, 1945, 3 months prior to the US dropping nuclear bombs on Japan. What is the point you’re making about needing to drop the bomb because of Nazi Germany? Or are you just referring to the hurry to develop The Bomb, not to drop it?