S2 E23 Cardboard Carriages | Hastings Line Stock for Bexhill West Model Railway
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- Hello everyone,
I've been really busy over the past few weeks, juggling many channel related projects simultaniously. But nothing is quite ready to share just yet.
However, being concious that there hasn't been a video for a while, I've put this little episode together. I hope you enjoy it.
This epsode follows on from previous attempts to come-up with a viable means of making a large number of carriages for use at Bexhill West to the Restriction 0 loading gauge of the hastings line.
There doesn't seem to be a suitable kit available at the moment, and nothing is made RTR, so it will be a case doing-it-myself, which is my preferred approach anyway.
I've read several articles from the past when card was considered an appropriate material.
Not surprisingly it has rather fallen out of favour these days, no doubt due the precision required to cut many identical parts with great precision. Yet the concept has many benefits, not least of which is the ability to incorporate the glazing within the shells, enabing it to be properly framed inside and out.
I've no doubt that the same could be achieved with etched brass or nickel silver, but it got me thinking - would this be a good use for the laser cutter?
Today's video shows my first experiments.
My conclusions? ....well I don't think we should be too quick to dismiss this technique from the past. It's got great potential.
Thanks for watching,
James
Hi James - an excellent piece showing the flexible use of card! The fact that it is so thin really does lend itself to layering for a 3-D effect. Great idea to have the window glass slotting in to allow detail on both sides to be shown.
HI David, I've been quite surprised with how these turned out. There is definite potential to be explored.
Thanks for watching,
James
Longtime no chat chum, about time to have a catch up whenever you can. There seems to be no end to your genius chum , cheers Paul
Hi James. As Matt says. A perfect blend of old materials with modern technology. Brilliant. Pete.
James, as usual I am in awe with your Skill what an excellent concept, thank you for sharing.
Thank you Peter. It’s a reimagining of a very old idea for which I can take no credit, but it seems to have potential.
Thanks for watching,
James
Hi James, I have just stumbled upon your channel, and this episode has inspired me to go and get myself a laser cutter.
I am like yourself a model maker and diorama creator, and at present, I am in the early stages of building an OO gauge layout depicting a version of the Harringay Green Lanes area of north London, in the late 60's / early 70's.
Although I thoroughly enjoy scratch building with the old school scalpel, the idea of being able to recreate multi layered cardboard or plywood designs, for creating the buildings and infrastructure of the layout is limitless.
Many thanks for your input and effort to show your trials and conquests.
Rufus
Layers of card and shellac is an old school method of building coaches... and its still great!
It certainly is. :) Thanks for watching.
The perfect marriage of old and new techniques
Thank you Matt, I think there is some potential in this.
Thanks for watching,
James
Another brilliant concept. I love the idea of card for rolling stock. Not to mention the cost savings. Well done Joames. 👏
Thanks Peter. :)
Love it! Brilliant! Thanks for showing the jig. I needed this. Very motivating - and I love to see you working thru ideas.
Thank you. Great video!
Thank you Klark. I'm pleased you liked the video.
Thanks for watching,
James
Very interesting video James.
Thank you Chris. :)
A modern spin on a traditional idea/material, I think it's great.💜✌️😊👍
Thank you Muso Seven. :)
@@BexhillWest ✌️😊👍💜
This is excellent, well done James, keep up the good work.
Dear James, love your comment on the cheezy youtube music. Absolutely beautiful carriage sidings, awesome method of construction.. Super level of detail. Like the French polish method, I’ll steal that one for stencil folder doors and windows. Curious for your next episodes! Cheerio
Hi Vincent,
I've only use this method on buildings before, but I think it could work well for a variety of rolling stock. I've made some SECR hopper wagons with it too and they've turned out really well. Far better than I could reliably achieve with 3d printing and much cheaper than etched brass. Definitely worth some more experimentation.
The next episode will (I hope) be a good one. Although as you know by now, I have a habit of becoming distracted, so may well be some other completely random idea from the leftfield. :)
Take care,
James
Well, I think we can call that a success, James. Much better than the 3D printed ones you tried (at least from what I remember of them). The card & laser cutting really seems to have produced a neat result.
If you don't know it already, the Chandwell channel here on youtube is breathaking for what he achieves in N Gauge with cardboard, scalpels and PVA.
As usual, it has me rethinking construction techniques. Keep those ideas coming!
I will, and thanks for watching. :)
I ve made several coaches for my O gauge railway. I used two pieces of card glued together and before it dries the card is formed round a coach shaped wooden former and held tightly in place by a strip of cloth wound round it. Once dry you have a card shape card coach complete with roof. The details sides are cut out and glued on. Windows are cut and glazing added. Bogies and details to taste and the result is cheap robust coaches that have run many miles. A very under rated material card.
video rating; entertaining ✅, inspiring ✅, fiddly ✅, over engineered ✅, watching paint dry ✅, slides in ✅, internal affairs (planking) ✅, details ✅, comfortable seats ✅, to be continued (endless end and roof missing) ✅, music ✅... till next time or I get a coffee and watch again, with constructive criticism then 😉
Me too. :)
@@BexhillWest constrictivly; use the window slots as tongue and groove contection for the end parts, roof and underframe (guessing gona be etched brass, self drawn and build, similarly to the prior shown), so the sides not gona wobble around ;) have a nice rest weekend.
Excellent James , you never fail to entertain , keep it up .
Thank you Steven, I try. :)
This is great to see! I've often admired the cardboard carriages in O scale done by Joe Fischer in the US in bygone days. (He is something of a legend here among O scale enthusiasts.) Cardboard is capable of amazing detail and I love the current range of cardboard and paper scenery kits. I appreciate that you're combining an old-fashioned material with laser cutting and 3D printing! Subscribing to see how this project goes. Cheers!
Love your work. Pondering midland coaches a la Jenkinson. I don’t like plastic are, it goes brittle over time.
Wow, now that is impressive.
Thank you, that's kind of you to say.
I've a card stock sided box car that I build in my youth. The siding went onto a wooden frame and it looks just as good as the plastic kits. The siding had all the paint and lettering printed onto it.
Another very fine piece of engineering.
HI Roderic,
That's very kind of you to say, I hope you found it interesting.
Thanks for watching,
James
Hello James
Thank you for yet another fascinating insight to your developments of Bexhill West.
These coach sides look fantastic with the level of detail on the card far surpassing some big companies products that are on the market.
I am very intrigued to see in the next episode what RTR frames you have decided to go with if at all or if you have decided to custom build them.
I would imagine that there would be quite an interesting market for these and not only for the professional modellers.
Keep safe and model on.
Regards
Lee@NEAR
Great video James. Such a beautiful model and I congratulate you on the quality of the models you’ve made!!! Should you ever decide to market these I would definitely be interested in the guards third, and at least two of the second class carriages!! I live over the pond in the US, however I enjoy modeling UK railways. And these would be absolutely perfect for branch line I’m working on!! Keep up the good work I enjoy watching your videos very much. Well done!!
Great to see another video!
Thanks John. I need to get in touch with you - I've been mega busy over the past couple of months, but I'll send an email this weekend.
All the best,
James
Inspirational!
Hi Paul,
I'm pleased you liked the video.
Thanks for watching,
James
Very nice as usual James, but and I could well be wrong on this, were the carriage sides completely flat ? The only pics I have seen of Bexhill West seem to show a slight, but noticeable, curve to the sides, both above and below the window lines, if so then your laminating of the sides is still an excellent method but it would mean you will need curved formers and also that every sheet will be slightly larger than the one below to allow for the convex (ish) surface. I do in particular like the sandwiched "glass" idea, this would make adding an open widow or parially open window much easier
HI David,
These particular coaches were slab sided. The drawings show a very slight turnunder or tumblehome to the lower edges of the sides but it is almost imperceptible at this scale.
I have made a curved jig for some Midland coaches which I hope to try out later this week, I just need to finish the artwork for the sides. It'll be an interesting further experiment.
Thanks for watching,
James
This is fantastic! I am now wondering about doing the same thing with plasticard. As an aside, there is one of these Restriction 0 coaches awaiting restoration at the Bluebell Railway, as well as the Hastings Diesels unit kept at St Leonards depot. All of them demonstrate the narrow bodies on the stock for the line.
I’d like to have a go at a Thumper, but can’t find a decent drawing anywhere. I only live a short walk from St Leonard’s shed, maybe I could arrange a visit to have a measure up.
Thanks for watching,
James
What a great idea to build coaches
Nice job!
I've been toying with a similar idea but for the Hatings DEMU's
However laser cutting a bogie is the stumbling point atm as I don't have a 3d printer
I think your window slots are an excellent idea
and I look forward to seeing this model progress
I'd like to try this with a Thumper too, but have struggled to find a decent drawing to work from.
I could potentially 3d print bogies for you, again subject to having a decent drawing from which to create a CAD model.
If anyone reading this has such a drawing, I'd love to hear from them.
All the best,
James
In the current Hornby magazine for December 2023 there is an interesting article by Tim Shackleton about making a centre car for a Class 205 D.E.M.U. with links obtaing the bogies from Bachmann. Thought this may help you.@@BexhillWest
Interesting method, kind of suited to these particular carriage due to it's squared appearance due to the restrictions on the route otherwise known as restriction 0, one of which undergoing restoration on the Bluebell. Doubt it will work on other carriages with a tumblehome mainly due to the curvature of the lower part of the body shell.
I'm going to experiment with some curved sides, I've got a curved jig made for some Midland Clayton 6 wheel stock. It'll be interesting to see how the turn out.
Thanks for watching,
James
Wow. What an interesting project. Maybe the way forward with laser cutters/ 3d printers all coming down in price and the cost of coaches from the major manufacturers heading up to £100 each !!!!! - maybe a business idea for you to sell your plans and so people can build the models at home. But just a great old school / modern take on the hobby. Well played sir , I salute you.
Hi Neil,
There is definite potential here, but I think it still needs developing a little, but in theory yes. This could be a very cost effective means of producing very detailed stock. It certainly works well, as the idea has been around for decades and was very popular when modellers had to build their own stock out of necessity.
Thanks for watching,
James
As glazing may I suggest either microscope slides or even slide covers although the latter may need packing into the gaps. Like coal, in miniature, glass looks remarkably like glass.
That's a great suggestion. Would you know a simple method to cut microscope slides? I'm guessing a usual glass cutter/scribe - but is there a better method for small pieces like this?
Thanks for watching,
James
@@BexhillWest A friend uses a diamond stylus held in a pin chuck.
Thank you, that's very helpful.
The slides can be scribed and snapped with just a steel scriber, but a glass cutter would result in fewer breakages. The covers are very very thin and just need the steel one. There will be a fair bit of wastage but they are cheap and the process for your system means a little nick or two on the edges isn't going to matter.
I use a diamond phonograph stylus in a pin chuck. The item number is a GP65 if you can still get them. or Tonar No. 5. Microscope cover slips are best and can be bought from Galvoptics Ltd economical size is 24 x 60mm in boxes of 100 and cut them to size. They are 0.13-0.17mm thick
A great technique! Should be much easier (and cheaper) than etched brass. I'd certainly like to buy some kits if you were to make them available...
Hi James, thoroughly enjoyed this video, the detail you have in these coaches it excellent, I’m looking forward to seeing how this project /experiment turns out.
Could there be a market for kit coaches? I think there could, obviously lots depends on production costs, etc, to make it viable, worth considering once you’ve completed this project.
Cheers for now, John
Hi John, thanks for watching and I'm pleased you enjoyed the video.
I'm working on this as a kit for myself really, but these could certainly be developed and offered for others to build if there was interest. It's a quick and fun way of putting something together. And potentially recyclable. :)
Great news, I have a laser cutter but fear of fire stops me form using it. I am probably a bit stupid.
Good effort! I am not sure French polish is the right thing to use, as it has a tendency to craze when painted over. Maybe use artist's matt acrylic varnish? Thanks for uploading.
I've had success with this method before, but I am aware of certain finishes reacting to the shellac. But you raise a good point. I've got lots of coach side prepared, and I'm going to do a thorough test of different finishes and try to come up with a reliable recipe which is simple to replicate.
Thanks for watching,
James
Actually card seems to be back on the menu for some manufacturers.
Advice from some builders i got was to use a base coat paint, either from a spray can (automotive quality) or airbrush. I'd stay away from shellac as in my experience it's sensitive to moisture.
Otherwise a very impressive project!
That's helpful feedback, thank you. I used shellac as that has been my prior experience. However, I've now made 12 coach sides, and I intend to experiment a little differently on each to develop a straightforward reliable method.
All suggestions welcome on here, and I'll try them out. Maybe there can be a future video of the text results.
I've got what I think will be a great idea for the numbering and detail painting which I think might be of worthy of a video, I could add it in too.
My best wishes,
Jamed
Absolutely fascinating. Greatly admire your attention to detail and ‘sandwiching the glazing between the layers is pure genius.
Interesting, these kinds of kits used to be common in the US in the 1930s. Obviously yours are a lot more precise of course.
I'd be interested to learn more about these kits. Do you know who the manufacturers were?
Best wishes,
James
@@BexhillWest not clued in entirely on the manufacturers outside of my local hobby shops line from the time period. “Shop-Craft-Dunellen,NJ”. But they did run on the same principle of thin wood cutouts veenered onto eachother in layers then sanded flush, details in the form of zinc castings, and decorated with paper prints.
Hello James, I'm a recent subscriber to your excellent channel. I've watched a few videos now and have enjoyed the all and learnt something new. A question - I think I have gleaned that you are using Solidworks for your 3D designs, but what programme have you used for the 2D coach work? I apologise if this is clear in your other videos, but I haven't got that far yet! But I will. Thanks again, Paul
Would using shellac out of an aerosol can rather than the brush? I can see shellac gumming up the insertion of the plastic for the windows. A great effort that got my juices running.
Hi David,
I'm not sure it would make much difference. The Shellac, whether French Polish from a bottle, or made up with flakes, needs to be really thin (like parafin). It then just soaks in. The secret is to stop applying it as soon as brush marks remain after application.
I've had no trouble with it gumming-up the slots and as you can see in the video I've just been brushing it on with an old brush, taking no particular care.
Thanks for watching,
James
Impressive, thanks for sharing, what drawing package are you using.
Cardboard instead of plastic because the laser would melt the plaster ?
Thanks again.
I'm using Techsoft 2d Design, which is what I use in my day job as a teacher. I have AutoCAD, Solidworks, etc. but prefer this simple software for straight forward 2D drawing tasks. I always use it to lay out sketches for my 3d CAD work too, preferring to import 2D profiles into my 3D CAD package.
I've used card, as I have a good stock of it, it's cheaper and laser cuts really well.
Thanks for watching,
James
This technique looks brilliant. How much does a laser cutter cost? Keep going as it looks great.
It depends what one wants from a machine. But the cheapest on Amazon would be capable of cutting stencil card with ease.
Brilliant technique. Looks like your vision is coming on leaps and bounds. Do you think there would be a market for Hastings stock kits?
I've no idea. I'm doing these for myself obviously, but when the kits are finalised they could go in my online store. Even a one-off would be possible.
Thanks for watching,
James
Hi Jame, very interesting as usual. Assume your coaches being the Hastings gauge where flat sided ?
Hi James nice results, is this stock flat sided or have you built in the tumblehome - if so how.
Cheers Paul
Having seen 3687 at the Bluebell up close I think they are completely fat sided.
Loved watching this, I have just added a laser cutter to my workshop to create my own "Metcalfe" style kits, I'd love to have a go at rolling stock as well. Can you tell me the grade/weight of stencil card you have used? P.S. just recieved the ballast "vac" brilliant piece of kit!
Search for Oiled Manilla Card or Stencil Card, it's available in a variety of thicknesses. I've used 375 microns for this experiment simply because I have a stock of it. By mixing thicknesses some great detail effects can be achieved. Another material to try is 'laser board' available from Hobarts. This is wonderful stuff too, not necessarily for a project like this, but it is a great structural base for architectural projects as it's really strong and dimensionally very stable. I find the 0.8mm stuff really useful.
All the best,
James
ps. I'm pleased you are enjoying using the ballast vacuum. Thanks for the feedback. :)
It's difficult to see from the video, but are the registration pins and holes spacing asymmetric so that the pieces of card cannot be installed in the wrong orientation?
I echo what others have said - top rate modelling
Would this method be adaptable for other, wider. coaches with a tumblehome ?
Thank you Brian,
I've done some trials today, and most definitely yes :)
More in the next video and thanks for watching,
James
Roxey makes etched brass kits of restriction 0 maunsells
That's right, but they are unavailable at the moment which is a shame as I like Roxey kits.
Thanks for watching,
James
@@BexhillWest Oh that's a shame! it would have saved a lot of work, James, but well done on what you are doing!
An exciting and innovative project. Another product (kit) for your shop?
Hi David,
Maybe, although I'm working on these out of necessity as there is nothing available. When (if) I master the technique, and I'm convinced it's replicable, I might offer some out to others to test first.
But in principle they could go in the shop if there was interest.
Thanks for watching,
James
Just to add I would be very interested in getting a Brake 3rd to replicate 3687 from the Bluebell as I've done a few small bits for it's restoration. Im sure a few others involved in it would also be interested.
Interesting... Are you going to make these available for others to buy?
I hadn't intended to, but there has been some interest. I'll give an update when/if I've perfected the technique to the point that it is repeatable and reliable. It would certainly be nice to see others have a go at building them.
Thanks for watching,
James
Can a Criscut or Silhouette cutter produce similar results I wonder?
Almost certainly I should think. :)
@@BexhillWest Thanks for your reply James. I have been around long enough to have seen articles in model railway magazines from the ‘60’s featuring cardboard rolling stock so thought these machines worth a mention.
Display Mount seems like a good idea but I find tat it has a limited life.
How did you afford SolidWorks? Would love a copy as I used it at work before I retired.
Like you I have it for work. They now do a non-commercial licence which is much more affordable and designed for the home user.
... and all it takes is a laser cutter...
Back in the day, folks would have cut these out by hand. It wouldn’t take long.
You could probably do the same with one of the cheaper 'silhouette' type cutters?
You lost me when you used a laser cutter