Like your redesign. Suggestion though, in addition to the shuttle lounge area, I would put a decompression/pathogen screening area, washrooms, security officer/Embarking Chief office, with a small holding room for non guests being questioned or transferred to shuttle from the Brig. It seems that in the forward Starboard section of 18 and 19 there's still some room for shuttle pilot crew quarters. That would be ideal for emergencies. Keep up the great work!
Just got to say you are amazing. To build on this scale takes balls. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress to the finished piece. So far, I am impressed beyond and back, keep it real, and all the best, mate. Calling from Melbourne, Australia. Cheers.
I always thought the original layout was really inefficient and didn’t leave room for any of the important functions of the secondary hull. That’s why the 1701-A refit with its deeper hanger deck area made way more sense. This design of yours makes sense and speaks more to the future lineage of design that the ship will go through. Great work!
Absolutely love your build and discussions. It really takes you there. I am walking through the Enterprise with an engineer getting a tour of how things are laid out so they make sense. It really gives you an amazing sense of perspective for this living starship and the size of it, and activities going on inside. I'm eagerly awaiting each new video! As an experienced military member, your layout makes a lot more sense from how flight operations are conducted on a carrier. You not only need the "flight deck" where the safe and orchistrated arrival/departure actiivty is going on, but you also need seperate but easily accessable cargo loading, crew loading, shuttle staging and repair areas that are also large and flow seamlessly into the flight area. The elevator makes sense for the storage of equipment and replacement shuttles not in normal rotation, etc because of its slow access and bottle neck that interferes with other flight deck operations when it is in use. Those other support areas behind the flight deck are also in constant use to ready and repair shuttles and passengers, conduct crew training, etc. so they are just as important. Equally as important as shuttle space, you do need lounges and areas for personnel to prepare for flights or await reception after arrival, as protocol and security would necessitate, so those areas you have added are also very necessary. The shuttle bay is one of the most interesting and active parts of the Enterprise because it's a mini space-port inside a space ship. It has its own ecosystem of strict choreographed operations and operates 24 hours a day independent to the rest of the ships regimented daily duty schedule of operations as shuttles may need to arrive or depart at any time. There should also be a lot more staircases on the Enterprise because if you just need to go up or down a deck or two its far quicker and more efficient to just pop down a staircase along your way than to retreat to a central elevator and then back outward from there again after having to wait. Thats not efficient crew movement at all.
Great planning and commentary. Maybe you've mentioned this in another video (I haven't gotten through all of them yet, just discovered your channel this week), are you considering utilities (oxygen, water, waste, energy, etc., conduits, Jefferies tubes maybe) and starship equipment/machinery in the model? I'm no naval architect, but I assume that some space on each deck of a vessel is taken up by such things.
I do like your reconfiguration of the hanger deck(s) area. I would only say that you can still keep the turntable as a way to prepare a shuttle for re-launch, just don't include the "elevator" aspect that FJ and FASA had. This way it will still match what's seen in the T.V. show, and not after the overall reconfiguration of what you have worked out. As to your "local" elevator system for the secondary hull, what you are describing is somewhat similar to how very tall skyscrapers often have their elevator systems set up, with what is referred to as "sky lobbies" on a mid-building floor. The idea there is that you have elevator system shafts stacked on top of each other that service different sections of floors within a building. This is done mainly so they don't take up more of a floor footprint and allow double (or triple) the number of elevators moving people around at the same time. These are set up so a set of elevators will service say the main lobby and floors 2-25, and on floor 25 there is a sky lobby. And directly over that same area on floor 25 for that bank of elevators is a set of elevators that service say floors 25 (sky lobby) through floor 50. This way you have double the number of elevators, moving more people to more floors simultaneously, without using up more floor area for elevator shafts. Others you would either have too few elevators to adequately serve a tall building, and/or you have most of the floor space taken up by a large number of elevator shafts. BTW, as others may have already mentioned, FASA was a was an American publisher of role-playing games, wargames and board games between 1980 and 2001, after which they closed publishing operations for several years, becoming an IP holding company under the name FASA Inc. The produced a whole line of Star Trek RPGs in the 70s and 80s. Originally, the name FASA was an acronym for "Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration", a joking allusion to the Marx Brothers film Duck Soup.
Think your Enterprise replica is superb, you've a real feel for 1960s 70s design for the Enterprise. Be aware that you have to have storage spaces for Engineering components in crates. You need food storage (think of an old ship on the high seas) the space ship took inspiration from naval vessels past. Plenty of crates in storage. There's that room also from trouble with tribbles that had food grain. Keep up the good work Ste.
I LOVE your absolute commitment to “reality” in this build. Yes…the blueprints give a great reference/ baseline…but if you lay in practicality and common sense? You simply MUST make adjustments. You’ve done a Wonderful Job! (Not to mention a true service to the series and the fans. Thank you! Thank you Ever so much for this. 😎👍❤❤❤❤
Thanks Troy, and yes, adjustments must be made to these blueprints. My mission is to make the ship as real as possible while staying with the fantasy and imagination that is Star Trek :-)
I like where you are going with the shuttle hangar and shuttle storage/maintennance mostly all together on one long deck! This idea really harkens back to the ST:TMP Enterprise shuttle hangar deck areas and general storage areas and makes more sense that something similar to that would have, more than likely, been laid out similarly on the original TOS Enterprise, as well. That stated, where is the main, lower engineering area/section going to go, now, as the warp engine nacelle supports and internal supports hardware and engine power conduit are very near to the hangar area. Some TOS E blueprinters have put main engineering ( the one we see on the TV show ) in the areas close to the warp engines supports as the tubes behind the screen, in engineering, are oriented upwards, suggesting that these are the main power conduits that are routed up through the those warp engine supports.
Thanks for the input! I've got clear and specific ideas about main engineering and how the nacelle pylons are attached to the ship but this is for another video a little way down the line! Stay tuned! ;-)
This is really nice. I'm enjoying seeing what you're doing. Something else to consider having near the hangar is an emergency medical station. Sometimes the people coming out of the shuttlecrafts are a little worse for wear.
I really like your layout. I have worked in aerospace for decades and I always thought that each shuttle craft would have an anti-grav dolly attach so the shuttles that aren't being worked on could be packed in like sardines, perhaps even stacked on top of each other or rotated on their sides. You'd always have a hangar queen so extra shuttles would come in handy.
In "Journey to Babel", the door into the hanger is from a corridor running along the side of flight deck. That is why the clamshell would not have been visible in the background.
Got it, but to put a corridor down the side of the hangar would reduce the internal width of the actual hangar significantly, unless that corridor was the very narrow width of the passageways in the dorsal section which in the episode it wasn't. Thanks for the input ;-)
They filmed that scene with a door going into a stage that had basically no back ground and totally messed up with the space that they filmed being to large for it to be from the side of the hanger bay if it is to be literally perceived that way. here is a channel, and a video from it where the Content Creator 3d model and explains it very well: ruclips.net/video/eqO-OF__Rsw/видео.html I suggest to Mr Trek, and anyone else to give him some views and some love as he has well put together the questions and enigma's of TOS Enterprise. I have some video's about the Registration number problem, and the K7 space station scale also, but this guy and Halfscreen: ruclips.net/video/3QF-8n1-3qI/видео.html both have some good content working on ship plans and questions about TOS, and Star Trek. There is one more where the channel shows the scales of the ships but that is less directly important to this channel and what he is accomplishing.
Again, as I said in my comment, I think the door is to the turntable landing. The observation gallery in the Hangar Deck is on deck 18 and overlooks the shuttle landing. Observers have to go back behind the bulkhead and down two flights of stairs to meet the passengers. Even if there is a (pressurized) door in the back wall, it's still a deck below the overlook and several feet back.
I actually agree totally with your view point! When I watched it on TV I often wondered where were the other shuttles? I really like your re design of that level! 😉😊👏👏👏👏
Totally agree. The Plans, and or different plans had 1 to 3 Emergency Bridges on the ship, and it the TOS episodes they always used Auxiliary Control. They never once went to an exact copy of the Bridge, and or a smaller version of it, it was always Auxiliary Control.
This is a lot of fun, as Star Trek fans we get caught up in the minutiae of the original series but let us not forget the physics of space. You don't require anti- gravity in the maintenance bay simply turn off the gravity plating in that area. If the power shuts off there will not any gravity in the rest of the ship. I think that the rest of the deck should be relegated to cargo hold, as in the refit from the Motion Picture.
Another great bundle of ideas combining faithfulness and practicality. The one thing that struck me is that where you have lounges might be prime real estate for fabrication shops that would make sense to be right near both the hangar/shuttles and the cargo/storage bays for keeping raw materials and spare parts and so forth. Once again, great work!
FASA was the role-playing game company that had the Trek license in the 80s. For what it's worth, FASA stands for the "Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration," which is a reference to the Marx Brothers film Duck Soup.
Your layout definitely makes much more sense than the plans I've seen which always looked cramped and impractical. But I would say you do need a substantial machine shop somewhere for parts manufacture and some substantial lifting gear (not just antigrav!) Imagine having to replace an entire nacelle! Tank maintenance might be an analogue.
Great work, I'm enjoying this complete insanity very much. I had some very minor constructive criticism. I think the cross deck corridor on 19 is longer than it needs to be. It could end at the hallway going back to the hangar bay, saving some space. Keep up the great work!
So awesome !!!! When I was a kid I made a (shite) shuttle bay for my amg shuttlecraft with card stock and a wooden floor based on fjd blueprints. Yours are (obviously) superior. And I totally love your shuttle craft. I could watch a whole video on how you made those!
I think your "redesigns " make a lot of sense , cause in the end at least for me only what we see onscreen is canon and as with the Bridge Turbo lift making the shuttlebay bigger like this makes a lot of sense.
This is just brilliant, love your realistic re-imagining of how this could actually work! With your newly designed shuttle bay, I would think the shuttlecraft would have wheels on them, so you could drive them around like a car within the bay, get them out through the double red doors, and make them more maneuverable. What do you think?
Agree there'd be shuttle related spaces off the hanger/launch area (rather than crew quarters) but I'd combine shuttle storage and maintenance in one slightly smaller space?
Good creativity on the new "shuttle deck", it looks great! However, I think you may have misunderstood how the turbolifts are supposed to work - it's not just individual dedicated shafts to various decks, it's a complete interconnected network of pathways in which the individual cars can move freely throughout. IOW, any turbolift station on any part of the ship could take you to any other part of the ship without having to change car.
Got it, and I still go with the movement of some of the turbo elevators moving freely horizontally and vertically throughout specific areas of the ship. However, it does make sense to just have some specific elevators who's function is simple up and down movement in certain areas. Movement around the ship would not all be via elevators able to go anywhere, that would be wierd, the crew like to walk and not be carried to 'the front door' everywhere they go.
@@mrtrek2117 I don't think the turbolifts have ever been depicted as going "anywhere", there's always (with the exception of the Bridge) a short-ish walk between the turbolift station and a character's final destination. Having to swap cars mid-journey kinda takes the "turbo" out of turbolifts IMO, but this is your project so there's no wrong answers! 👍 One extra thought - the option to move quickly to the deck below does seem to have been addressed in the show, through the use of the triangular ladders. Ordinary stairs would do the job as well! 😁
LOL, I was scaling a 1/25 scale F type shuttlecraft for you, but I can see that you have matters well in hand. Just phenomenal the work you are doing. It reminds me so much of things that I have done other than I have made like 1/72 scale WW2 cruisers from scratch. I am still getting the studio up, so I can video better. still F=n awesome to see your rough outs. It will be great when you start on the real beauty.
FYI, the FASA blueprints were made for a roleplaying game. That's why it has a square grid -- so you can move your characters around. Any 'accuracy' to the TV Enterprise is a secondary consideration to gameplay needs. Franz Joseph was an engineer with a substantial background in technical drawing and he brought his skills and expertise to his Enterprise blueprints, but they still remain largely a work of his own imagination. Nonetheless, I consider them to be the more authentic of the two, despite abundant inaccuracies. I think it's absolutely fine to take liberties with the internal arrangements of the ship so it works how you prefer… so long as the areas we have seen on screen resemble what we have seen! Otherwise I don't really think it's the Enterprise. Which is perfectly fine of course, but brace yourself for every nerd who sees your model asking you about the differences. 😅
In terms of layout they're nearly identical. But in terms of drafting you notice the place he found (the elevator on the third level) that didn't line up was a FASA alteration.
They say the easiest way to remember is port has the same number of letters as left, but I prefer the infinitely simpler right is right has the same number of letters as starboard if you count every other letter starting with S.
The door that Spocks parents came through from the shuttle bay was on a hallway underneath the upper observation gallery that runs along the starboard side of the hangar bay. You don't see the clamshell hangar doors because the door is facing directly towards the opposite wall (port side wall) of the hangar bay not the rear of the ship. You can tell this also because the shuttle itself is facing to the right when looking through the door, and having just landed in the hangar would be facing towards the front of the ship. You can actually see these doors on each side of the shuttle bay in shots looking into the open bay from the outside
FASA were blueprints that went with a gaming platform. The area were u see on the show were the shuttles were launched from is actually the Flight Deck, and was called as such in a number of episodes, not the hanger deck... the hanger deck is the deck below this were the shuttles were stored and maintained.... same as on an aircraft carrier, aircraft are launched from the flight deck and lowered by elevator to the hanger deck were they are maintained...
All right, let me suggest a compromise. There is a turntable bringing the shuttles down into the maintenance area, but they are stored on deck 19. Instead of that large red door, the Hangar Deck bulkhead can be retracted or jettisoned in an emergency, allowing multiple shuttles to leave at once. The problem here is that the producers of Star Trek TOS never conceived of being able to use force fields to hold in an atmosphere, as in TNG. Thus, those clamshell doors serve as an airlock. When the shuttle comes in and lands, the Hangar Deck has to be depressurized. The turntable and its landing serve as a buffer between the reinforced wall of the Hangar and the pressurized decks inside the hull. In fact, it's always been my headcanon that it must either take a tediously long time to pressurize the Hangar Deck or the force of the airflow inside the Hangar when it is pressurizing is dangerously fast. Which is why I think the turntable landing is also depressurized as the shuttle comes in and pressurized once the shuttle is lowered and the opening sealed. The passengers can then disembark immediately instead of having to wait for that huge Hangar Deck to be filled with air. The corridor that we saw on the show would then not be next to a door to the Hangar Deck, but the turntable landing. And that explains why we didn't see the clamshell doors. The director just reused the Hangar Deck set for the lower landing. It probably didn't even have to be explicitly stated. Most viewers would just ignore it, and those that did could be given a realistic answer. Another turntable could bring the shuttles back up, or they could be moved back up to deck 19 with antigravity. I do like the idea of taking the living quarters out of the Secondary Hull. I assume Franz Joseph put them there because he needed them for a crew complement of 420. But I always assumed the living soace would be as far away from the Warp.Engines as possible, and even the secondary hull was dangerous. I just assumed those quarters were for emergencies or if the ship was evacuating refugees.
I have been enjoying your series very much. I admire your passion for the project. I look forward to coming to see the model in person someday. A couple of things to think about. Does no one ever have to carry things from deck to deck. There is a very steep staircase and a vertical ladder. I would be hard to carry one of the Star Trek iPads up or down those ladders, much less any kind of shuttle part or tool. Also the doorway from the shuttle landing bay to deck 18. Seems like that should be an airlock. Otherwise there is no way for anyone to go from the interior of deck 18 to the landing bay. If you get a hole in the bay doors, or heaven forbid, a door does not close, you can't get into the landing bay without putting all of deck 18 into vacuum. Maybe there should be more than one airlock.
Thanks for the input, the model in the video is just a very quick sketch, all the things you mention will be taken into consideration at the final build.
Oh! So terrific! Instead of stairs wouldn't it be possible to have ramps with variable gravity as if you're not even walking up? A ramp, but the gravity plating makes it feel like you're on a level surface? I always thought steps seemed old fashioned for the future lol.
Thanks Richard, yeah on an advanced ship like this in the future it would very likely anti-grav instead of stairs, but I think it's also important to keep the environment a place we can relate to otherwise the crew would just be floating around the ship in anti-grav tubes and then it all becomes something else :-)
I wonder if, when there are large areas that encompass two or three decks, but no more, rather than incorporating turbo lifts it might be feasible to utilize "lift plates" (for lack of a better term) as seen on the C57-D, just to allow a crew person to move quickly between decks
Given that all of the shuttle facilities are together on the one deck, wouldn't there be an area for spares and consumables to repair and maintain them?
Don't sweat any changes you may have to make because you're working from the "Booklet of General Plans". Every starship is going to be a little different.
One thing you might think about. I have this same passion, but with the Enterprise D. I don't know if your familiar with the Ed Whitefire original season 1 blueprints of the Enterprise D. It has a whole lot of dropped concepts due to budget constraints. I mention this because of your comment of efficient movement between decks. Well one dropped concept for the Enterprise D's secondary hull was the Zero-G shaft. Just off of Engineering was a shaft with no artificial gravity where Engineers could quickly access all the decks of the secondary hull without waiting for a turbolift or using stairs. A similar system was used in older Gundam Anima in their ships that used grips on a belt. these grips would whisk you up or down the Zero-G halls to your desired area, and you would "jump" into the room or hall. Just an idea for another kind of Jeffries tube.
I've always believed that different ships of the same class would have slight internal deck plan variations, anyway, so this works. As we notice, even the 1701 in the movies and 1701-A had different bridge modules as the years went by. Who says the same didn't happen to fix design flaws and other tech improvements, with the TOS Enterprise, within its 5 yr run, and her "Phase 2" refit that we never saw (though there are great Phase 2 fan films on utube)?
I'm watching vids I missed before I found your channel so apologies if it has been answered but isn't the point of the battle bridge for when the saucer was separated? Isn't removing it a problem?
I just finished going over the FASA blueprints and can confirm they are almost identical to the Franz Joseph plans. They don't look the same, as FASA redrew it in their own style. The original plans were more of a blueprint style, with symbols for tables and other furniture. But the layout of the rooms is the same. There are some minor differences, mainly in the area of crew quarters and mess halls. FASA seemed to think the furniture was the wrong size and made them bigger, as well as making some crew quarters and the ness hall on deck 6 bigger. The emergency transporters were also made bigger. The biggest change, however, is that the shuttle storage area isn't on Franz Joseph's plans. That actually doesn't make sense. The deck isn't as tall as the maintenance area above it, and the turntable elevator shouldn't be able to retract down that far. I prefer your idea of extending the Hangar or maintenance deck forward, although you would have to raise the level of that deck to match the Hangar. Or alternately, make the shuttle storage area two decks tall. On the Franz Joseph blueprints, though, that area is a bowling alley. 😂 this is from the episode "The Naked Time," where a crewman believes he's the captain and announces a meeting in the bowling alley. Cleverly, Joseph puts a bleachers for an audience to sit at the back of the bowling alley, right where there is that "scoop" under the Hangar
FASA stands for 'Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration'. The company had the rights to produce a table-top Star Trek RPG until 1988, but they lost them for releasing a Non-canonical TNG expansion manual.
@@jaityrone6306 Your first comment states that the deflector dish control room takes up most parts of the secondary hull so I'm assuming you have reference for that, maybe some schematics that I have not seen.
All right, I just did some more research, and here is my third post on the topic. I hope some of this is helpful. 😅 While Matt Jeffries never made up deck plans on the NCC-1701, he did draw an interior cutaway, and as some people have commented here, his version of the Hangar Deck differs from Franz Joseph's. I don't think it's that different, but it is shorter. His profile drawing clearly shows the Hangar behind the pylons, while Joseph runs the Hangar between the pylons, leaving a lot of empty space between them. At first, I thought the Hangar was tiny compared to Joseph's, but after superimposing them on top of each other, I can confirm the width and height of the Hangar is the same in both versions, Joseph's is just longer. It is about 50% longer to be precise. The turntable elevator has been moved forward, adding a lot of space at the rear, which is taken up by a landing target and cargo doors to the deck below. Joseph uses this space to create a maintenance area under the Hangar, much bigger than Jeffries' version. He has the turntable landing right in the middle of this area, surrounded by workshops. By contrast, Jeffries has a maintenance area under his Hangar, but it is accessed via a tiny little elevator landing, and there possibly isn't enough room for the elevator to retract all the way due to the scoop under the hull. The shuttle has to be pulled put into the maintenance area. As I noted in my other post, though, this little area could act as an airlock, allowing a shuttle to be recovered without waiting for the Hangar Bay to be repressurized. Jeffries also drew a profile of his Hangar Deck separately. Again superimposing it on the cutaway, I found that it did not fit properly unless it ran about halfway under the pylons. The Hangar could have been shrunk to fit in the space, but I made sure to match the scales of the two images, so I was sure the Hangar was too long to fit. I think this makes sense. It's a compromise that lets the turntable elevator fit in the area above the scoop, and there is space under the nacelles for the Warp Core, or at least plasma conduits going into engineering. There are some other intricacies with the Matt Jeffries plans, so I'll put that in a reply, but this is an overview of what I found. I think you'll only need a minor change to your design to make the Hangar Deck a little smaller, and you'll be able to use the space for your shuttle storage.
There is no turntable in my version of the flight/hangar deck, and as you can see in the video there is plenty of storage space for the shuttles in this revised version.
Is there no turntable, or just no elevator? Because you can do without the maintenance deck below if you move it behind the Hangar. You'll just have to pressurize the Hangar before you open the big doors.
Anyway, the first thing I noted about the Matt Jeffries design is that he had a two story deck between the Hangar Bay and main Deflector. So there's plenty of space for shuttle storage there. There is room for two decks above that for Warp Engineering between the pylons. All of this would be taking up the recovered space behind the Hangar and crew's quarters. In fact, it seems as if you did make the Hangar Bay smaller. I don't know if that's just my perception or not
Your work is amazing! I am loving it. I am following with great interest! Two suggestions. The hanger deck pressure doors are blue in every episode they are seen. The turbo lift doors and doors to main engineering are red but there are three other colors used for doors in the series besides red. Blue as I said, also gray and yellow. You may want to make a sketch or chart as to the door colors on the actual filming set for a reference for various rooms. Also the blue pressure doors would be seen from the port side with the shuttle facing the clam shell doors since the shuttlecraft always turns around automatically in every episode to face forward or is already facing forward for launch. In the remaster episodes you see the observation deck behind and above the shuttlecraft for a frame of reference. FYI the Franz Josef plans mistakenly makes the bridge of center by 36 degrees and places main engineering in the saucer section. According to many on screen sources the bridge faces forward and main engineering is in the secondary hull. Here are some great reference materials if you wish to use them. Again you do outstanding work and are extremely talented! I hope this helps to make tour model as screen accurate as possible of that is a goal of yours. I will be watching with excitement! www.thetrekcollective.com/2013/05/slicing-up-enterprise-cutaway-models.html
Also I said in my first comment the shuttlecraft is facing forward. I meant towards the clamshell doors which is actually aft of the ship but towards the exit point. LLAP 🖖
Your skill and craftsmanship is amazing and I've been watching your videos in order and geeking out. The FJ tech manual and blueprints are fun for geeks like us who like to fantasize about living on the Enterprise, but in many ways they are wildly inaccurate, have omissions, and are generally over-done and impractical. In terms of the shuttle bay, there was the miniature used to film the shuttles taking off and landing which I don't believe had a back, the scene with Spock's parents which just showed a nondescript grey background (budget, budget, budget), then the observation gantry from Conscious of the King where Kirk was trying to seduce the chick of the week. So your interpretation of what the rest of the bay should look like is just as valid as FJ's and in fact more practical. I like your storage and workshop areas. There are a few suggestions I would make: keep the turntable for the coolness factor, use a door that rolls up like a garage door for the shuttle to enter/exit the bay rather than the sliding red doors, and also include the shuttles from the animated series and Matt Jefferies' concept drawings.
There are a bunch of Beta Canon sources about how many Shuttlecraft they carried that vary from 4 to 13 I think, but the Book (The Making of Star Trek they mention that there are suppose to be 8. I definitely think with your logic of the area, that would be easily possible, and maybe even 12 would not be a stretch. The Galileo was always /7 and now they mention Columbus and Copernicus as /3 and /2. There is also Beta Canon material on what names are supposed to be used, and or can be picked by the Star Ship/Star Fleet Ship to name their Shuttlecraft. This would be a system where some of the shuttlecraft would bear the same names but different hull numbers, IE like the Constitution could have a Galileo that could be 1700/1, and or /1 through 8. It also means that out of the 80 some names that several or none of the shuttlecraft could be the same names, but wouldn't necessarily have to be, but with so many Fleet ships it would be somewhat unavoidable. I like on Lower Decks how the California class has shuttlecraft that have state park names, but with the last episode there are about 20 of the California class starships, so again if they all had shuttlecraft that had the names of the state parks, then it would be just easier to have them all with the same names and different hull numbers reflecting which star ship they came from.
That wide corridor on deck 19 should have an airlock 7/or docking port at the end by the exterior hull. I know it is never visually shown on the shown during, but that is logical place for one. There is more than enough room for the airlock itself and small closet sized airlock control. I am using TMP as reference. Although we see the port, not starboard side in the flyby, at 4:02 point in the linked video you can see a port in roughly that position. ruclips.net/video/GMQTzYp756o/видео.html
Love what you are doing with this. The blueprints are nice, but as you pointed out, not perfect. I was never happy with the shuttlecraft infrastructure shown on the Franz Joseph blueprints. I did like the more substantial infrastructure given in the Refit Enterprise. It was more realistic for how a warship would be. If you look at pictures of the hanger bay of an aircraft carrier, you will see airplanes in a variety of stages of maintenance and overhaul (engines removed, planes on jack stands, etc). Your redesign allows for that bit of realism for the shuttlecraft I liked the adea of a "reception area" off of the hanger bay. Maybe this could be the quarter deck, with items (artwork, models, etc) highlighting the namesake, and invoking naval/maritime/spacefaring traditions. Also, love the idea of the shuttle deck being serviced by multiple turbolifts. This department on the ship probably has the most number of crew assigned. Shift change at 8 bells would create a bottleneck with all of them rushing out to try to get chow before the attending training sessions. Again, love the work! It is really bringing The Enterprise to life.
Thanks for the great input, the only thing in it all that I'm uncomfortable with is when you refer to the Enterprise as a warship. It isn't a warship, it's an exploration/science vessel 'seeking out new life (not to go to war with) and new civilizations' and of course it is more than capable of defending itself. It's only in the 'new Trek' that every vessel in the fleet has become a warship.
@@mrtrek2117 So I can understand that, and I agree that the new Trek is decidedly more militaristic than the opening lines of TOS would indicate. But for the construction of the ship and the behavior of the crews, I think she has more in common with current naval vessels than with merchant or research ships. She's built tough to withstand the forces of nature (and the odd Klingon) and a crew that is disciplined to not crack under pressure. Definitely not equating Enterprise to Discovery...
Makes sense not to have crew quarters on the hanger deck. If ever a shuttle came in 'hot' and crashed you'd risk massive damage, decompression and wipe out half the crew.
The crew quarters in the secondary hull were, I believe, intended for use when the secondary hull was being used as a life boat. As was the secondary bridge.
@Bill Thomas this is a major issue I have with a lot of star trek interiors, sure it's a roomy ship but dedicating such a huge portion of the ship to the very rare, in fact likely single time use, of the hulls separating just makes no sense. If such a thing happens, you are in dire straits, and having comfy quarters ready to go just doesn't compare to having that space packed with supplies or being used for other functions the rest of the time. If you have to evacuate to the secondary hull, you can expect to be hot bunking in a couple of corridors. I have kinda the same issue with the battle bridge or backup bridge concept, not that they exist, but that the way we see them being used is stupid. A secondary command center should be manned by a secondary command crew. Not left empty and powered down the vast majority of the time. It's also not necessary imo for it to be a full on bridge, I'll give the standard bridge a pass even though it exists as it does because it's a Soundstage. But the secondary command center can be a small room with the requisite consoles/stations and the room to walk around. Manned by a small watch crew with others on watch at near by posts with standing orders to proceed to that location under a given circumstance. All I'm asking for is a modicum of efficiency!
So, I've now watched this video a couple times, and I have a couple other thoughts for you. Of course, this really depends on just to what lengths you're willing to go, but nevertheless a couple things. First, let's not forget that there are environmental control systems on board. Now, this being Star Trek and in the future, you can suppose any of a number of capabilities, but at a minimum, one must be able to recycle the air on board. As you may be aware, enclosed vessels, particularly spacecraft, use lithium hydroxide containers through which they draw carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide-contaminated air to strip that and leave only the oxygen. And however that task may be "accomplished" in Star Trek, it's undeniable it must be done. Also, let's not forget the ship has to be heated because otherwise it would eventually drop well below freezing. So therefore, there need to be air ducts (true, we for the most part never saw them) which means there must be air conduits all over. That means there need to be facilities which handle this. Second, and this video really made me think about it, you're talking about the need to both store parts as well as room to allow parts to be carried between storage, the repair facility/facilities, and the maintenance area for shuttlecraft. And what I have in mind is you should also give some thought to placement of those locations in line with your thoughts on crew efficiency. Incidentally, your take on the turbolifts there makes sense. There are a number of buildings - typically your very tall skyscrapers - which use one or maybe even two mid-level lobbies because elevators might not actually traverse the entire height of the building. So, you might have an elevator (or two) which service, say, Floor 1 - 50, and then another set which service 50 - 80 or 90 or whatever. And except for traversing between primary and secondary hulls, it would, as you rightfully point out, be silly bordering on stupid to tie up interhull turbolifts with intrahull movement. Again, as I've said before in other videos of this series, you're doing an incredible job and it's unbelievable that you're able to do all of this out of (admittedly very nice) cardboard. I shudder to think how big a 1/25 scale Battlestar Galactica would be, original or new series. What about that TARDIS of yours? 😁
@@mrtrek2117 Hey, just wanted to follow up with you about my post. I didn't think about this until a day or two after you responded, and now I feel like a bit of a goofball for not having put this more clearly initially. By no means am I suggesting you should try to work out every single tube, pipe, channel, conduit, etc. that is running through the walls, ceilings, and other service spaces throughout the Constitution Class. That would be utter and sheer madness and lots of speculative design that doesn't accomplish very much, to say nothing of it clearly obscuring everything else you're trying to do. The way I feel I *_should_* have phrased my comment was to take into account the displacement of those things as you build the spaces between walls and decks. I know I'm basically making a mountain out of a mole hill here in saying this, but I take pride in expressing myself clearly, and I don't think I did as well as I meant to in my first post. Again, fantastic work. Truly stunning!
FASA was the name of a company that made a role playing Star Trek game in the 1980's and they made a lot of literature and designs to have their game work. It was almost like taking TOS Trek and making it into Dungeons and Dragons. They did a fairly good job to stay true to 1960's Star Trek, but they ran into issues like you are with what would or could be logical with ship designs, and timeframes of the series, and before. They basically came up with the Axanar concept before the YT channel that is making it now. This explains FASA Star Trek: ruclips.net/video/x27sE5jMJUw/видео.html
I applaud your creativity, but IF you are redesigning the hangar deck, or reinterpreting this or that, THEN you are not building the Starship Enterprise. Dude, you better stick to canon!
As Mr Trek explained in a previous video. Canon did not exist when Star Trek was first broadcast. Mr Trek is building this as if he was building it between 1966 - 1969 before anything was thought of.
So you are going against canon. The shuttle bay was an established "on-screen" miniature in TOS. There were no doors on the forward wall. Also canon was the observation hallway that overlooked the shuttle bay that we saw in Conscience of the King,
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Like your redesign. Suggestion though, in addition to the shuttle lounge area, I would put a decompression/pathogen screening area, washrooms, security officer/Embarking Chief office, with a small holding room for non guests being questioned or transferred to shuttle from the Brig. It seems that in the forward Starboard section of 18 and 19 there's still some room for shuttle pilot crew quarters. That would be ideal for emergencies. Keep up the great work!
Great input! Thanks!
I'd be the new crew memember with a deck plan in my hand, wandering around in circles, looking lost, asking other crew where reception was etc.😊
Just got to say you are amazing. To build on this scale takes balls. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress to the finished piece. So far, I am impressed beyond and back, keep it real, and all the best, mate. Calling from Melbourne, Australia. Cheers.
I always thought the original layout was really inefficient and didn’t leave room for any of the important functions of the secondary hull. That’s why the 1701-A refit with its deeper hanger deck area made way more sense. This design of yours makes sense and speaks more to the future lineage of design that the ship will go through. Great work!
Absolutely love your build and discussions. It really takes you there. I am walking through the Enterprise with an engineer getting a tour of how things are laid out so they make sense. It really gives you an amazing sense of perspective for this living starship and the size of it, and activities going on inside. I'm eagerly awaiting each new video! As an experienced military member, your layout makes a lot more sense from how flight operations are conducted on a carrier. You not only need the "flight deck" where the safe and orchistrated arrival/departure actiivty is going on, but you also need seperate but easily accessable cargo loading, crew loading, shuttle staging and repair areas that are also large and flow seamlessly into the flight area. The elevator makes sense for the storage of equipment and replacement shuttles not in normal rotation, etc because of its slow access and bottle neck that interferes with other flight deck operations when it is in use. Those other support areas behind the flight deck are also in constant use to ready and repair shuttles and passengers, conduct crew training, etc. so they are just as important. Equally as important as shuttle space, you do need lounges and areas for personnel to prepare for flights or await reception after arrival, as protocol and security would necessitate, so those areas you have added are also very necessary. The shuttle bay is one of the most interesting and active parts of the Enterprise because it's a mini space-port inside a space ship. It has its own ecosystem of strict choreographed operations and operates 24 hours a day independent to the rest of the ships regimented daily duty schedule of operations as shuttles may need to arrive or depart at any time. There should also be a lot more staircases on the Enterprise because if you just need to go up or down a deck or two its far quicker and more efficient to just pop down a staircase along your way than to retreat to a central elevator and then back outward from there again after having to wait. Thats not efficient crew movement at all.
Love it, thanks for the input and the support! ;-)
Great planning and commentary. Maybe you've mentioned this in another video (I haven't gotten through all of them yet, just discovered your channel this week), are you considering utilities (oxygen, water, waste, energy, etc., conduits, Jefferies tubes maybe) and starship equipment/machinery in the model? I'm no naval architect, but I assume that some space on each deck of a vessel is taken up by such things.
I do like your reconfiguration of the hanger deck(s) area. I would only say that you can still keep the turntable as a way to prepare a shuttle for re-launch, just don't include the "elevator" aspect that FJ and FASA had. This way it will still match what's seen in the T.V. show, and not after the overall reconfiguration of what you have worked out. As to your "local" elevator system for the secondary hull, what you are describing is somewhat similar to how very tall skyscrapers often have their elevator systems set up, with what is referred to as "sky lobbies" on a mid-building floor.
The idea there is that you have elevator system shafts stacked on top of each other that service different sections of floors within a building. This is done mainly so they don't take up more of a floor footprint and allow double (or triple) the number of elevators moving people around at the same time.
These are set up so a set of elevators will service say the main lobby and floors 2-25, and on floor 25 there is a sky lobby. And directly over that same area on floor 25 for that bank of elevators is a set of elevators that service say floors 25 (sky lobby) through floor 50. This way you have double the number of elevators, moving more people to more floors simultaneously, without using up more floor area for elevator shafts. Others you would either have too few elevators to adequately serve a tall building, and/or you have most of the floor space taken up by a large number of elevator shafts.
BTW, as others may have already mentioned, FASA was a was an American publisher of role-playing games, wargames and board games between 1980 and 2001, after which they closed publishing operations for several years, becoming an IP holding company under the name FASA Inc. The produced a whole line of Star Trek RPGs in the 70s and 80s.
Originally, the name FASA was an acronym for "Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration", a joking allusion to the Marx Brothers film Duck Soup.
Think your Enterprise replica is superb, you've a real feel for 1960s 70s design for the Enterprise. Be aware that you have to have storage spaces for Engineering components in crates. You need food storage (think of an old ship on the high seas) the space ship took inspiration from naval vessels past. Plenty of crates in storage. There's that room also from trouble with tribbles that had food grain. Keep up the good work Ste.
Sir, your enthusiasm is refreshing. Keep striving for your dream. I enjoy very much what you share, thank you!
I LOVE your absolute commitment to “reality” in this build.
Yes…the blueprints give a great reference/ baseline…but if you lay in practicality and common sense?
You simply MUST make adjustments.
You’ve done a Wonderful Job!
(Not to mention a true service to the series and the fans.
Thank you!
Thank you Ever so much for this.
😎👍❤❤❤❤
Thanks Troy, and yes, adjustments must be made to these blueprints. My mission is to make the ship as real as possible while staying with the fantasy and imagination that is Star Trek :-)
Very well thought out and makes total sense... well done, loved the names on the shuttles too, nice touch 😀
I like the idea of secondary elevators.
I like where you are going with the shuttle hangar and shuttle storage/maintennance mostly all together on one long deck!
This idea really harkens back to the ST:TMP Enterprise shuttle hangar deck areas and general storage areas and makes more sense that something similar to that would have, more than likely, been laid out similarly on the original TOS Enterprise, as well.
That stated, where is the main, lower engineering area/section going to go, now, as the warp engine nacelle supports and internal supports hardware and engine power conduit are very near to the hangar area.
Some TOS E blueprinters have put main engineering ( the one we see on the TV show ) in the areas close to the warp engines supports as the tubes behind the screen, in engineering, are oriented upwards, suggesting that these are the main power conduits that are routed up through the those warp engine supports.
Thanks for the input! I've got clear and specific ideas about main engineering and how the nacelle pylons are attached to the ship but this is for another video a little way down the line! Stay tuned! ;-)
I can visualise Big Red rolling Craftsman tool boxes in the maintenance area. Hey, they do last forever.
This is really nice. I'm enjoying seeing what you're doing.
Something else to consider having near the hangar is an emergency medical station. Sometimes the people coming out of the shuttlecrafts are a little worse for wear.
Good compromise and design. Structurally sound design
I really like your layout. I have worked in aerospace for decades and I always thought that each shuttle craft would have an anti-grav dolly attach so the shuttles that aren't being worked on could be packed in like sardines, perhaps even stacked on top of each other or rotated on their sides. You'd always have a hangar queen so extra shuttles would come in handy.
In "Journey to Babel", the door into the hanger is from a corridor running along the side of flight deck. That is why the clamshell would not have been visible in the background.
Got it, but to put a corridor down the side of the hangar would reduce the internal width of the actual hangar significantly, unless that corridor was the very narrow width of the passageways in the dorsal section which in the episode it wasn't. Thanks for the input ;-)
They filmed that scene with a door going into a stage that had basically no back ground and totally messed up with the space that they filmed being to large for it to be from the side of the hanger bay if it is to be literally perceived that way.
here is a channel, and a video from it where the Content Creator 3d model and explains it very well: ruclips.net/video/eqO-OF__Rsw/видео.html
I suggest to Mr Trek, and anyone else to give him some views and some love as he has well put together the questions and enigma's of TOS Enterprise.
I have some video's about the Registration number problem, and the K7 space station scale also, but this guy and Halfscreen: ruclips.net/video/3QF-8n1-3qI/видео.html
both have some good content working on ship plans and questions about TOS, and Star Trek. There is one more where the channel shows the scales of the ships but that is less directly important to this channel and what he is accomplishing.
Again, as I said in my comment, I think the door is to the turntable landing. The observation gallery in the Hangar Deck is on deck 18 and overlooks the shuttle landing. Observers have to go back behind the bulkhead and down two flights of stairs to meet the passengers.
Even if there is a (pressurized) door in the back wall, it's still a deck below the overlook and several feet back.
Who else felt called out around the 12 minute mark? LOL.
I love this project so much!!!!!
I love the shuttles!
Thanks! I really enjoyed making them! :-)
I actually agree totally with your view point! When I watched it on TV I often wondered where were the other shuttles? I really like your re design of that level! 😉😊👏👏👏👏
Thanks, I think it makes sense ;-)
I love this redesign it actually works.
One of the small rooms off the side of the corridor from the shuttle bay could be a briefing room for dignitaries.
Totally agree. The Plans, and or different plans had 1 to 3 Emergency Bridges on the ship, and it the TOS episodes they always used Auxiliary Control. They never once went to an exact copy of the Bridge, and or a smaller version of it, it was always Auxiliary Control.
What an elegant solution. It really is fantastic
Thanks, appreciated ;-)
This is a lot of fun, as Star Trek fans we get caught up in the minutiae of the original series but let us not forget the physics of space. You don't require anti- gravity in the maintenance bay simply turn off the gravity plating in that area. If the power shuts off there will not any gravity in the rest of the ship. I think that the rest of the deck should be relegated to cargo hold, as in the refit from the Motion Picture.
Some great points there, thanks for the input!
Your doing such a great. You are a artist for sure.
Another great bundle of ideas combining faithfulness and practicality. The one thing that struck me is that where you have lounges might be prime real estate for fabrication shops that would make sense to be right near both the hangar/shuttles and the cargo/storage bays for keeping raw materials and spare parts and so forth. Once again, great work!
FASA was the role-playing game company that had the Trek license in the 80s. For what it's worth, FASA stands for the "Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration," which is a reference to the Marx Brothers film Duck Soup.
Great info, thanks! ;-)
Your layout definitely makes much more sense than the plans I've seen which always looked cramped and impractical. But I would say you do need a substantial machine shop somewhere for parts manufacture and some substantial lifting gear (not just antigrav!) Imagine having to replace an entire nacelle! Tank maintenance might be an analogue.
Great work, I'm enjoying this complete insanity very much. I had some very minor constructive criticism. I think the cross deck corridor on 19 is longer than it needs to be. It could end at the hallway going back to the hangar bay, saving some space. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the constructive input ;-)
Totally 👍🏻
Well thought out sir.
Please do a turbo lift map.
Salutations from Belfast Northern Ireland 🇬🇧
Excellent work very excited about this project greetings from the US keep it coming
Thank you very much!
Amazing
Brother your awsome!! Your dedication to do good detail work is cool.
So awesome !!!!
When I was a kid I made a (shite) shuttle bay for my amg shuttlecraft with card stock and a wooden floor based on fjd blueprints. Yours are (obviously) superior.
And I totally love your shuttle craft. I could watch a whole video on how you made those!
Thanks for the input and great idea with a video showing how I made the shuttles!
Just awesome !!
I think your "redesigns " make a lot of sense , cause in the end at least for me only what we see onscreen is canon and as with the Bridge Turbo lift making the shuttlebay bigger like this makes a lot of sense.
This is just brilliant, love your realistic re-imagining of how this could actually work! With your newly designed shuttle bay, I would think the shuttlecraft would have wheels on them, so you could drive them around like a car within the bay, get them out through the double red doors, and make them more maneuverable. What do you think?
Agree there'd be shuttle related spaces off the hanger/launch area (rather than crew quarters) but I'd combine shuttle storage and maintenance in one slightly smaller space?
If you look back in the episode of the Journey to Babel, spock and capt Kirk meets Ambassador Sarek in a corridor on the side of the shuttlebay.
Good creativity on the new "shuttle deck", it looks great!
However, I think you may have misunderstood how the turbolifts are supposed to work - it's not just individual dedicated shafts to various decks, it's a complete interconnected network of pathways in which the individual cars can move freely throughout. IOW, any turbolift station on any part of the ship could take you to any other part of the ship without having to change car.
Got it, and I still go with the movement of some of the turbo elevators moving freely horizontally and vertically throughout specific areas of the ship. However, it does make sense to just have some specific elevators who's function is simple up and down movement in certain areas. Movement around the ship would not all be via elevators able to go anywhere, that would be wierd, the crew like to walk and not be carried to 'the front door' everywhere they go.
@@mrtrek2117 I don't think the turbolifts have ever been depicted as going "anywhere", there's always (with the exception of the Bridge) a short-ish walk between the turbolift station and a character's final destination. Having to swap cars mid-journey kinda takes the "turbo" out of turbolifts IMO, but this is your project so there's no wrong answers! 👍
One extra thought - the option to move quickly to the deck below does seem to have been addressed in the show, through the use of the triangular ladders. Ordinary stairs would do the job as well! 😁
LOL, I was scaling a 1/25 scale F type shuttlecraft for you, but I can see that you have matters well in hand. Just phenomenal the work you are doing. It reminds me so much of things that I have done other than I have made like 1/72 scale WW2 cruisers from scratch.
I am still getting the studio up, so I can video better. still F=n awesome to see your rough outs. It will be great when you start on the real beauty.
great stuff
really amazing
FYI, the FASA blueprints were made for a roleplaying game. That's why it has a square grid -- so you can move your characters around. Any 'accuracy' to the TV Enterprise is a secondary consideration to gameplay needs.
Franz Joseph was an engineer with a substantial background in technical drawing and he brought his skills and expertise to his Enterprise blueprints, but they still remain largely a work of his own imagination. Nonetheless, I consider them to be the more authentic of the two, despite abundant inaccuracies.
I think it's absolutely fine to take liberties with the internal arrangements of the ship so it works how you prefer… so long as the areas we have seen on screen resemble what we have seen! Otherwise I don't really think it's the Enterprise. Which is perfectly fine of course, but brace yourself for every nerd who sees your model asking you about the differences. 😅
Thanks for the input, I totally agree. I will be staying 99% faithful to what we saw in the show, everything else is open to interpretation ;-)
In terms of layout they're nearly identical. But in terms of drafting you notice the place he found (the elevator on the third level) that didn't line up was a FASA alteration.
Left = Port
Right = Starboard
They say the easiest way to remember is port has the same number of letters as left, but I prefer the infinitely simpler right is right has the same number of letters as starboard if you count every other letter starting with S.
I am just gobsmacked!!! As a teen I bought the Franz Joseph "blueprints"...sadly I lost them (maybe e-Bay). But? I love you!!!! If you're Gay.
The door that Spocks parents came through from the shuttle bay was on a hallway underneath the upper observation gallery that runs along the starboard side of the hangar bay. You don't see the clamshell hangar doors because the door is facing directly towards the opposite wall (port side wall) of the hangar bay not the rear of the ship. You can tell this also because the shuttle itself is facing to the right when looking through the door, and having just landed in the hangar would be facing towards the front of the ship. You can actually see these doors on each side of the shuttle bay in shots looking into the open bay from the outside
FASA were blueprints that went with a gaming platform. The area were u see on the show were the shuttles were launched from is actually the Flight Deck, and was called as such in a number of episodes, not the hanger deck... the hanger deck is the deck below this were the shuttles were stored and maintained.... same as on an aircraft carrier, aircraft are launched from the flight deck and lowered by elevator to the hanger deck were they are maintained...
All right, let me suggest a compromise. There is a turntable bringing the shuttles down into the maintenance area, but they are stored on deck 19. Instead of that large red door, the Hangar Deck bulkhead can be retracted or jettisoned in an emergency, allowing multiple shuttles to leave at once.
The problem here is that the producers of Star Trek TOS never conceived of being able to use force fields to hold in an atmosphere, as in TNG. Thus, those clamshell doors serve as an airlock. When the shuttle comes in and lands, the Hangar Deck has to be depressurized. The turntable and its landing serve as a buffer between the reinforced wall of the Hangar and the pressurized decks inside the hull.
In fact, it's always been my headcanon that it must either take a tediously long time to pressurize the Hangar Deck or the force of the airflow inside the Hangar when it is pressurizing is dangerously fast. Which is why I think the turntable landing is also depressurized as the shuttle comes in and pressurized once the shuttle is lowered and the opening sealed. The passengers can then disembark immediately instead of having to wait for that huge Hangar Deck to be filled with air.
The corridor that we saw on the show would then not be next to a door to the Hangar Deck, but the turntable landing. And that explains why we didn't see the clamshell doors. The director just reused the Hangar Deck set for the lower landing. It probably didn't even have to be explicitly stated. Most viewers would just ignore it, and those that did could be given a realistic answer.
Another turntable could bring the shuttles back up, or they could be moved back up to deck 19 with antigravity. I do like the idea of taking the living quarters out of the Secondary Hull. I assume Franz Joseph put them there because he needed them for a crew complement of 420. But I always assumed the living soace would be as far away from the Warp.Engines as possible, and even the secondary hull was dangerous. I just assumed those quarters were for emergencies or if the ship was evacuating refugees.
kinda feel that scale is more practical of mockup than the 1:25
Have you checked the schematics from Mike Okuda ?
Has Mike Okuda made schematics of the original Enterprise?
I have been enjoying your series very much. I admire your passion for the project. I look forward to coming to see the model in person someday.
A couple of things to think about. Does no one ever have to carry things from deck to deck. There is a very steep staircase and a vertical ladder. I would be hard to carry one of the Star Trek iPads up or down those ladders, much less any kind of shuttle part or tool. Also the doorway from the shuttle landing bay to deck 18. Seems like that should be an airlock. Otherwise there is no way for anyone to go from the interior of deck 18 to the landing bay. If you get a hole in the bay doors, or heaven forbid, a door does not close, you can't get into the landing bay without putting all of deck 18 into vacuum. Maybe there should be more than one airlock.
Thanks for the input, the model in the video is just a very quick sketch, all the things you mention will be taken into consideration at the final build.
Oh! So terrific! Instead of stairs wouldn't it be possible to have ramps with variable gravity as if you're not even walking up? A ramp, but the gravity plating makes it feel like you're on a level surface? I always thought steps seemed old fashioned for the future lol.
Thanks Richard, yeah on an advanced ship like this in the future it would very likely anti-grav instead of stairs, but I think it's also important to keep the environment a place we can relate to otherwise the crew would just be floating around the ship in anti-grav tubes and then it all becomes something else :-)
At a glance, i'd say your mock up is 1:72 scale ( looking at the size of the doors and the shuttles )
Thanks, it's 1:100 ;-)
I wonder if, when there are large areas that encompass two or three decks, but no more, rather than incorporating turbo lifts it might be feasible to utilize "lift plates" (for lack of a better term) as seen on the C57-D, just to allow a crew person to move quickly between decks
Given that all of the shuttle facilities are together on the one deck, wouldn't there be an area for spares and consumables to repair and maintain them?
Yes, it could be the large double-deck room right at the front that I show in the video ;-)
Don't sweat any changes you may have to make because you're working from the "Booklet of General Plans". Every starship is going to be a little different.
This model looks to be around 25mm scale similar to that used with roleplaying game miniatures
One thing you might think about. I have this same passion, but with the Enterprise D. I don't know if your familiar with the Ed Whitefire original season 1 blueprints of the Enterprise D. It has a whole lot of dropped concepts due to budget constraints. I mention this because of your comment of efficient movement between decks.
Well one dropped concept for the Enterprise D's secondary hull was the Zero-G shaft. Just off of Engineering was a shaft with no artificial gravity where Engineers could quickly access all the decks of the secondary hull without waiting for a turbolift or using stairs.
A similar system was used in older Gundam Anima in their ships that used grips on a belt. these grips would whisk you up or down the Zero-G halls to your desired area, and you would "jump" into the room or hall. Just an idea for another kind of Jeffries tube.
Interesting with zero-G shafts, I'll definitely take that as a consideration ;-)
I can easily imagine engineers taking a quick cat nap inside one of the shuttles on the ready line. With coms turned off.
For sure! ;-)
I've always believed that different ships of the same class would have slight internal deck plan variations, anyway, so this works. As we notice, even the 1701 in the movies and 1701-A had different bridge modules as the years went by. Who says the same didn't happen to fix design flaws and other tech improvements, with the TOS Enterprise, within its 5 yr run, and her "Phase 2" refit that we never saw (though there are great Phase 2 fan films on utube)?
I'm watching vids I missed before I found your channel so apologies if it has been answered but isn't the point of the battle bridge for when the saucer was separated? Isn't removing it a problem?
If you watch the previous video I explain that there are 2 auxiliary control rooms port and starboard in the saucer :-)
I just finished going over the FASA blueprints and can confirm they are almost identical to the Franz Joseph plans. They don't look the same, as FASA redrew it in their own style. The original plans were more of a blueprint style, with symbols for tables and other furniture. But the layout of the rooms is the same.
There are some minor differences, mainly in the area of crew quarters and mess halls. FASA seemed to think the furniture was the wrong size and made them bigger, as well as making some crew quarters and the ness hall on deck 6 bigger. The emergency transporters were also made bigger.
The biggest change, however, is that the shuttle storage area isn't on Franz Joseph's plans. That actually doesn't make sense. The deck isn't as tall as the maintenance area above it, and the turntable elevator shouldn't be able to retract down that far. I prefer your idea of extending the Hangar or maintenance deck forward, although you would have to raise the level of that deck to match the Hangar. Or alternately, make the shuttle storage area two decks tall.
On the Franz Joseph blueprints, though, that area is a bowling alley. 😂 this is from the episode "The Naked Time," where a crewman believes he's the captain and announces a meeting in the bowling alley. Cleverly, Joseph puts a bleachers for an audience to sit at the back of the bowling alley, right where there is that "scoop" under the Hangar
FASA stands for 'Freedonian Aeronautics and Space Administration'.
The company had the rights to produce a table-top Star Trek RPG until 1988, but they lost them for releasing a Non-canonical TNG expansion manual.
So what about deflector control and the deflector dishe's room that takes up most parts of the secondary hull, and engineering?
We never saw a deflector dish control room in the show. Where are you getting your reference to make such statements?
@@mrtrek2117 check the tech manual. I'm sure there is one. It's not stick out the front for nothing.
@@mrtrek2117 we never saw 3 auxiliary control rooms in the show either, but you seem to be improvising that too
@@jaityrone6306 Your first comment states that the deflector dish control room takes up most parts of the secondary hull so I'm assuming you have reference for that, maybe some schematics that I have not seen.
AWESOME! 😁👍🏼👍🏼
Are you an architect?
Also, did you go to school for any of this - or is it natural intuition/talent (or both)?
Much respect 🫡
Thank you very much. I'm an artist, went to college for four years to study classic art and then specialized in Graphic Design.
As others have mentioned, although FASA's Enterprise blueprints were very heavily inspired by Franz Joseph's work, they aren't identical.
All right, I just did some more research, and here is my third post on the topic. I hope some of this is helpful. 😅
While Matt Jeffries never made up deck plans on the NCC-1701, he did draw an interior cutaway, and as some people have commented here, his version of the Hangar Deck differs from Franz Joseph's. I don't think it's that different, but it is shorter. His profile drawing clearly shows the Hangar behind the pylons, while Joseph runs the Hangar between the pylons, leaving a lot of empty space between them.
At first, I thought the Hangar was tiny compared to Joseph's, but after superimposing them on top of each other, I can confirm the width and height of the Hangar is the same in both versions, Joseph's is just longer. It is about 50% longer to be precise. The turntable elevator has been moved forward, adding a lot of space at the rear, which is taken up by a landing target and cargo doors to the deck below. Joseph uses this space to create a maintenance area under the Hangar, much bigger than Jeffries' version. He has the turntable landing right in the middle of this area, surrounded by workshops.
By contrast, Jeffries has a maintenance area under his Hangar, but it is accessed via a tiny little elevator landing, and there possibly isn't enough room for the elevator to retract all the way due to the scoop under the hull. The shuttle has to be pulled put into the maintenance area. As I noted in my other post, though, this little area could act as an airlock, allowing a shuttle to be recovered without waiting for the Hangar Bay to be repressurized.
Jeffries also drew a profile of his Hangar Deck separately. Again superimposing it on the cutaway, I found that it did not fit properly unless it ran about halfway under the pylons. The Hangar could have been shrunk to fit in the space, but I made sure to match the scales of the two images, so I was sure the Hangar was too long to fit. I think this makes sense. It's a compromise that lets the turntable elevator fit in the area above the scoop, and there is space under the nacelles for the Warp Core, or at least plasma conduits going into engineering.
There are some other intricacies with the Matt Jeffries plans, so I'll put that in a reply, but this is an overview of what I found. I think you'll only need a minor change to your design to make the Hangar Deck a little smaller, and you'll be able to use the space for your shuttle storage.
There is no turntable in my version of the flight/hangar deck, and as you can see in the video there is plenty of storage space for the shuttles in this revised version.
Is there no turntable, or just no elevator? Because you can do without the maintenance deck below if you move it behind the Hangar. You'll just have to pressurize the Hangar before you open the big doors.
@@richardryley3660 Did you watch the video?
@Mr Trek Actually, I didn't notice whether there was a landing target or turntable. I just figured this was a work in progress.
Anyway, the first thing I noted about the Matt Jeffries design is that he had a two story deck between the Hangar Bay and main Deflector. So there's plenty of space for shuttle storage there. There is room for two decks above that for Warp Engineering between the pylons. All of this would be taking up the recovered space behind the Hangar and crew's quarters.
In fact, it seems as if you did make the Hangar Bay smaller. I don't know if that's just my perception or not
Your work is amazing! I am loving it. I am following with great interest! Two suggestions. The hanger deck pressure doors are blue in every episode they are seen. The turbo lift doors and doors to main engineering are red but there are three other colors used for doors in the series besides red. Blue as I said, also gray and yellow. You may want to make a sketch or chart as to the door colors on the actual filming set for a reference for various rooms. Also the blue pressure doors would be seen from the port side with the shuttle facing the clam shell doors since the shuttlecraft always turns around automatically in every episode to face forward or is already facing forward for launch. In the remaster episodes you see the observation deck behind and above the shuttlecraft for a frame of reference.
FYI the Franz Josef plans mistakenly makes the bridge of center by 36 degrees and places main engineering in the saucer section. According to many on screen sources the bridge faces forward and main engineering is in the secondary hull. Here are some great reference materials if you wish to use them. Again you do outstanding work and are extremely talented! I hope this helps to make tour model as screen accurate as possible of that is a goal of yours. I will be watching with excitement!
www.thetrekcollective.com/2013/05/slicing-up-enterprise-cutaway-models.html
Also I said in my first comment the shuttlecraft is facing forward. I meant towards the clamshell doors which is actually aft of the ship but towards the exit point. LLAP 🖖
Your skill and craftsmanship is amazing and I've been watching your videos in order and geeking out. The FJ tech manual and blueprints are fun for geeks like us who like to fantasize about living on the Enterprise, but in many ways they are wildly inaccurate, have omissions, and are generally over-done and impractical.
In terms of the shuttle bay, there was the miniature used to film the shuttles taking off and landing which I don't believe had a back, the scene with Spock's parents which just showed a nondescript grey background (budget, budget, budget), then the observation gantry from Conscious of the King where Kirk was trying to seduce the chick of the week. So your interpretation of what the rest of the bay should look like is just as valid as FJ's and in fact more practical. I like your storage and workshop areas. There are a few suggestions I would make: keep the turntable for the coolness factor, use a door that rolls up like a garage door for the shuttle to enter/exit the bay rather than the sliding red doors, and also include the shuttles from the animated series and Matt Jefferies' concept drawings.
There are a bunch of Beta Canon sources about how many Shuttlecraft they carried that vary from 4 to 13 I think, but the Book (The Making of Star Trek they mention that there are suppose to be 8. I definitely think with your logic of the area, that would be easily possible, and maybe even 12 would not be a stretch. The Galileo was always /7 and now they mention Columbus and Copernicus as /3 and /2. There is also Beta Canon material on what names are supposed to be used, and or can be picked by the Star Ship/Star Fleet Ship to name their Shuttlecraft.
This would be a system where some of the shuttlecraft would bear the same names but different hull numbers, IE like the Constitution could have a Galileo that could be 1700/1, and or /1 through 8. It also means that out of the 80 some names that several or none of the shuttlecraft could be the same names, but wouldn't necessarily have to be, but with so many Fleet ships it would be somewhat unavoidable.
I like on Lower Decks how the California class has shuttlecraft that have state park names, but with the last episode there are about 20 of the California class starships, so again if they all had shuttlecraft that had the names of the state parks, then it would be just easier to have them all with the same names and different hull numbers reflecting which star ship they came from.
That wide corridor on deck 19 should have an airlock 7/or docking port at the end by the exterior hull. I know it is never visually shown on the shown during, but that is logical place for one. There is more than enough room for the airlock itself and small closet sized airlock control.
I am using TMP as reference. Although we see the port, not starboard side in the flyby, at 4:02 point in the linked video you can see a port in roughly that position. ruclips.net/video/GMQTzYp756o/видео.html
I like that idea!
Love what you are doing with this. The blueprints are nice, but as you pointed out, not perfect. I was never happy with the shuttlecraft infrastructure shown on the Franz Joseph blueprints. I did like the more substantial infrastructure given in the Refit Enterprise. It was more realistic for how a warship would be. If you look at pictures of the hanger bay of an aircraft carrier, you will see airplanes in a variety of stages of maintenance and overhaul (engines removed, planes on jack stands, etc). Your redesign allows for that bit of realism for the shuttlecraft
I liked the adea of a "reception area" off of the hanger bay. Maybe this could be the quarter deck, with items (artwork, models, etc) highlighting the namesake, and invoking naval/maritime/spacefaring traditions. Also, love the idea of the shuttle deck being serviced by multiple turbolifts. This department on the ship probably has the most number of crew assigned. Shift change at 8 bells would create a bottleneck with all of them rushing out to try to get chow before the attending training sessions.
Again, love the work! It is really bringing The Enterprise to life.
Thanks for the great input, the only thing in it all that I'm uncomfortable with is when you refer to the Enterprise as a warship. It isn't a warship, it's an exploration/science vessel 'seeking out new life (not to go to war with) and new civilizations' and of course it is more than capable of defending itself. It's only in the 'new Trek' that every vessel in the fleet has become a warship.
@@mrtrek2117 So I can understand that, and I agree that the new Trek is decidedly more militaristic than the opening lines of TOS would indicate. But for the construction of the ship and the behavior of the crews, I think she has more in common with current naval vessels than with merchant or research ships. She's built tough to withstand the forces of nature (and the odd Klingon) and a crew that is disciplined to not crack under pressure.
Definitely not equating Enterprise to Discovery...
Makes sense not to have crew quarters on the hanger deck. If ever a shuttle came in 'hot' and crashed you'd risk massive damage, decompression and wipe out half the crew.
The crew quarters in the secondary hull were, I believe, intended for use when the secondary hull was being used as a life boat. As was the secondary bridge.
Eh, the lesser half of the crew.
@Bill Thomas this is a major issue I have with a lot of star trek interiors, sure it's a roomy ship but dedicating such a huge portion of the ship to the very rare, in fact likely single time use, of the hulls separating just makes no sense.
If such a thing happens, you are in dire straits, and having comfy quarters ready to go just doesn't compare to having that space packed with supplies or being used for other functions the rest of the time.
If you have to evacuate to the secondary hull, you can expect to be hot bunking in a couple of corridors.
I have kinda the same issue with the battle bridge or backup bridge concept, not that they exist, but that the way we see them being used is stupid. A secondary command center should be manned by a secondary command crew. Not left empty and powered down the vast majority of the time. It's also not necessary imo for it to be a full on bridge, I'll give the standard bridge a pass even though it exists as it does because it's a Soundstage. But the secondary command center can be a small room with the requisite consoles/stations and the room to walk around. Manned by a small watch crew with others on watch at near by posts with standing orders to proceed to that location under a given circumstance.
All I'm asking for is a modicum of efficiency!
Emergency sickbay
omg please buld the full cardboard version
Er, space _comes with_ antigrav. The mystery is where the grav elsewhere on the ship comes from...
Do starships have bathrooms? 🙂
So, I've now watched this video a couple times, and I have a couple other thoughts for you. Of course, this really depends on just to what lengths you're willing to go, but nevertheless a couple things.
First, let's not forget that there are environmental control systems on board. Now, this being Star Trek and in the future, you can suppose any of a number of capabilities, but at a minimum, one must be able to recycle the air on board. As you may be aware, enclosed vessels, particularly spacecraft, use lithium hydroxide containers through which they draw carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide-contaminated air to strip that and leave only the oxygen. And however that task may be "accomplished" in Star Trek, it's undeniable it must be done. Also, let's not forget the ship has to be heated because otherwise it would eventually drop well below freezing. So therefore, there need to be air ducts (true, we for the most part never saw them) which means there must be air conduits all over. That means there need to be facilities which handle this.
Second, and this video really made me think about it, you're talking about the need to both store parts as well as room to allow parts to be carried between storage, the repair facility/facilities, and the maintenance area for shuttlecraft. And what I have in mind is you should also give some thought to placement of those locations in line with your thoughts on crew efficiency.
Incidentally, your take on the turbolifts there makes sense. There are a number of buildings - typically your very tall skyscrapers - which use one or maybe even two mid-level lobbies because elevators might not actually traverse the entire height of the building. So, you might have an elevator (or two) which service, say, Floor 1 - 50, and then another set which service 50 - 80 or 90 or whatever. And except for traversing between primary and secondary hulls, it would, as you rightfully point out, be silly bordering on stupid to tie up interhull turbolifts with intrahull movement.
Again, as I've said before in other videos of this series, you're doing an incredible job and it's unbelievable that you're able to do all of this out of (admittedly very nice) cardboard.
I shudder to think how big a 1/25 scale Battlestar Galactica would be, original or new series. What about that TARDIS of yours? 😁
Great input and thanks for all the things you point out ;-)
@@mrtrek2117 Hey, just wanted to follow up with you about my post. I didn't think about this until a day or two after you responded, and now I feel like a bit of a goofball for not having put this more clearly initially.
By no means am I suggesting you should try to work out every single tube, pipe, channel, conduit, etc. that is running through the walls, ceilings, and other service spaces throughout the Constitution Class. That would be utter and sheer madness and lots of speculative design that doesn't accomplish very much, to say nothing of it clearly obscuring everything else you're trying to do.
The way I feel I *_should_* have phrased my comment was to take into account the displacement of those things as you build the spaces between walls and decks.
I know I'm basically making a mountain out of a mole hill here in saying this, but I take pride in expressing myself clearly, and I don't think I did as well as I meant to in my first post.
Again, fantastic work. Truly stunning!
FASA was the name of a company that made a role playing Star Trek game in the 1980's and they made a lot of literature and designs to have their game work. It was almost like taking TOS Trek and making it into Dungeons and Dragons.
They did a fairly good job to stay true to 1960's Star Trek, but they ran into issues like you are with what would or could be logical with ship designs, and timeframes of the series, and before.
They basically came up with the Axanar concept before the YT channel that is making it now. This explains FASA Star Trek: ruclips.net/video/x27sE5jMJUw/видео.html
Thanks for the info and input! ;-)
I applaud your creativity, but IF you are redesigning the hangar deck, or reinterpreting this or that, THEN you are not building the Starship Enterprise. Dude, you better stick to canon!
As Mr Trek explained in a previous video. Canon did not exist when Star Trek was first broadcast. Mr Trek is building this as if he was building it between 1966 - 1969 before anything was thought of.
What about main engineering and the warp core?
So you are going against canon. The shuttle bay was an established "on-screen" miniature in TOS. There were no doors on the forward wall. Also canon was the observation hallway that overlooked the shuttle bay that we saw in Conscience of the King,
We never saw the forward wall in TOS, there wasn't even one built on the miniature
You go show me a canon appearance where they showed that forward wall, doors or otherwise. I'll wait.
@@MatthewCaunsfield gotchya. My comment withdrawn.