Do Standardized Tests Do More Harm Than Good?
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2018
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Do standardized test help or harm students? And is the US actually over testing students when compared with other nations? In this episode of Origin of Everything, we ask the big question about why do some American students take an average 112 standardized tests between Kindergarten & Grade 12?
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Written and Hosted By: Danielle Bainbridge
Graphics By: Noelle Smith
Edited By: Linda Huang and Mike Petrow
Fact Check: Sarah Edwards
Produced By: Kornhaber Brown (www.kornhaberbrown.com)
Works Cited
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Everything I'm seeing lately makes me feel like I should move to Finland
Clayton Griffith I agree, wanna put our money together? I have $65
Jk
No, but maybe we should try to emulate certain aspects of Finnish society. The secret to Finland's general success is really simple: the Finnish classrooms are generally quiet and their kids try to pay attention more. The places that score higher than Finland like Singapore thrive by attracting really smart people. We need some standardized tests for objective measurements though.
“Finland, Finland, Finland, that’s the country for me!”
If you don’t get it, watch Spamalot. Or just listen to the first or second song.
Yeah good luck if you're going to survive.
I wish. Because of my disabilities and lack of money, I'm stuck here in America. Even if I move there... u.u Can't escape the bullshit.
I’m a student. I hate the current school system. Yeah, I get good grades, but I have no idea what to do with my life, and I have few practical skills. Also, I’m tired and stressed 24/7.
I’ve heard people refer to childhood as one of the most free/happy times of your life. If that’s true, I don’t want to be an adult, because this is hell already.
Preach
Don't worry. It gets better. People who say high school is the best? crazy. i guess they peaked in high school.... yikes. Every year since I -dropped out of- finished high school has been better and better and better.
I don't know if you will read this response but I want to tell you something. It gets better. Don't ever beleive these are the best years of your life because then you won't have anything to look forward to. I hated school I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life and it wasn't until now that I'm 30 that I really have an understanding of what I'm good at and what I want to do. You will meet people who will find there way earlier and that's great for them but life is a journey and no one journey is the same. Don't panic abput your grades try to do well but don't think your whole life depends on them. No one cares what my high school grades were and I used to break down if I got a b. Community colleges offer the same basic classes need to graduate before you declare a major at a much more affordable price. Then once you know what you want to major in you can transfer in as a sophomore in your university. So try not to worry as much you don't have to decide your life yet.
This. So many times this.
I don’t want to care about my grades but my teachers make me feel like I have too
Here's a question: why haven't we implemented a system like Finland?
Randolph Thomas II oh yeah, ask myself that everyday
In the US, I think there is also a strong cultural divide where parts of the country do not highly value education specifically state regulated education and seek out schools based on alignment of their values rather than optimizing for educational development.
Even I was sent to a religious private school by my parents for early elementary school for this reason. I think the only reason they stopped was because my little brother got old enough to go to school and my parents couldn't afford to send both of us. I should thank him for that.
There's a somewhat.. something that you could call an answer in my comment to AstroLizard Channel in this videos comment section if that helps.
Implementing a system like Finlands' is not some magic bullet. In fact, it's extremely hard. The Finnish got to where they are today after literally half a century of work reforming and tweaking their education system. Just transplanting it wholesale onto a different context is likely to fail spectacularly.
MONEY.
I adore this video because she provides factual, unbiased information and allows you, the viewer, to come to your own conclusion.
Everything is biased even if someone says it's not it is . Il iked that she still posed the question to viewer at the end but pbs , cbs, NBC the list goes on all have a bias it's not nessarily wrong or right because we're alll human amd that's our nature.
Standardized tests in my school district, having as many as you said, have so much pressure put on them and our teachers are like, “STUDY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT GET SLEEP.” And they forget the ‘sleep’ part, so everyone ends up tired and dead as a donut. I barely get enough sleep before a test, and they just suck so much.
Generally speaking, the whole testing model is flawed. Students are told to buy a list of facts at the beginning of the school year. Then, throughout the year, they will be required to fill forms, called tests, quizzes, and so on, by memory, in a timed challenge, with those facts. No matter how much the teachers say they value critical thinking, there is none to be had with the way we test, and overall teach, our kids.
Well the funny thing is, here in Germany critical thinking is involved into nearly every test (exept Math) but if you don't think critically the way the teacher does your chances of success are suprisingly bad.
So instead of facts the way our teachers argument must be memorized to get proper grades
So, instead of blurting out text book quotes, you have to blurt out professor quotes?
If someone has no idea about the topic, yes. But usually mimicing the way teachers think about the topic is enough.
Still better than pure facts, though
I don't think you're realizing that all those are presented as facts. The textbooks also have the opinion of often highly regarded experts in the field (although not as often as one would think). And they're presented and expected to be repeated as facts. That's no different from quoting the teacher that's in the classroom. That was where I was trying to get at.
i think the problem is that we see goverment and teacher as the source of info when usually they aren't
they just know more than you and have learnt it longer
seeing it that way means that teacher can be argued with, not just followed with
and usually, there's no tangible stuff to be scored, in physic you're spitting formula instead of experimentation, in economics you do writing and not actually selling.
all this stuff is just vague stuff that has no tangible benefit irl
i mean you certainly can't make student do all the stuff but school can do better than just written test
When I took my SAT I was 😨 I can’t even read a prompt without hesitation of thinking about the time. I can’t I can’t I can’t!!
How did you do?
@@romulus3529 the guy failed, he is now a youtuber XDXDXD
Hello, I am a Korean student. I'm not the type that studies 16 hours a day and barely have any sleep, but there are crazy monsters in our country.
Such a scary reality.
Being an Indian I can understand
Even our parents say us not to sleep during exams and literally everyone has done cheating themselves or know someone else who does
As a person from the Caribbean I can understand. Standaized tests plus the load of assignments and projects truly took the time away for me to study anything and the end result usually ends negatively but somehow I still barely made it.
The ACT has made me unbelievably stressed and anxious to the point where I need therapy. Seriously we need to rethink standardized tests
I lived in Canada until partway through 11th grade, when I moved to New Jersey. In Ontario, at that time at least; there were only four standardized tests that students had to take. You had your third grade EQAO, your sixth grade EQAO, a ninth grade EQAO specifically for math only, and a 10th grade literacy test. After having completed all of this in Ontario, I then was hit with the HSPA in Jersey. The HSPA was essentially the same thing as the ninth and 10th grade tests, but combined into one, three day engagement. The way that we were being told about the HSPA lead most of us to be deathly afraid of the test, And we expected it to be near impossible to pass. Upon having actually taken it, I realized that it was exactly the same as the two I took in high school back home, and wasn’t near as much of a big deal as it seemed. Generally speaking, I find standardized tests to be stupid and entirely pointless. I think a better idea would be to give the teachers some sort of evaluation every so often. After all, the literacy test, math test, and HSPA were all basically evaluations of how you have been taught by teachers past. I think that Montessori schools really have a much better idea by avoiding them entirely. By the way, you guys have a new subscriber
I'm south Korean, and yes, I expected you will be talking about South Korea as soon as I just read the title. Although being south Korean, it feels quite normal to take that amount of tests. But yeah, I think students in this country spend way to much time studying.
Well,,,, duh. If you ask any student, we just learn the info for the test and then we forget it. There’s no use for them. Not to mention they cause so much stress along with anxiety.
Another model besides those three, huh? Well, how about this one - GERMANY! Basically, screw this obsession with university - learn to give trade schools their due. Also, incorporate apprenticeship into your education system in an integrated manner. Seems to have worked wonders for them. And Germany's population is more comparable to the US than Finland or S. Korea.
I can get behind that. There's nothing wrong with trade schools! They teach students to do a useful thing that will probably get them a decent job. Not everything has to be super-fancy to be good, after all.
"Basically, screw this obsession with university - learn to give trade schools their due. Also, incorporate apprenticeship into your education system in an integrated manner."
I completely agree with this. I think it is a good and fair point which deserves more consideration than it gets in the US.
Unfortunately Germany has serious problems with it's system as well. For example, it is highly discriminatory and the best indicator for if a given child will be placed on a university education track is if their parents went to university.
* Teachers (mostly state employees) recommend which version of 'high school' students should go to: 'University Track' or 'Trade School'.
* Parents can oppose this, but in the end it works out that children are largely split across socio-economic lines (think gerrymandering, but directly for the educations and futures of 10- to 12-year-olds).
* Lifetime earning potentials are significantly higher for those who went through the 'University Track' than the 'Trade Schools'.
* Students who complete the trade school version of high school are not qualified to enter university. If they later decide they want to pursue university, they must undergo a long, arduous, expensive process of first qualifying to enter university (think GED but generally much more onerous).
* And the icing on the cake: Jobs are more tied to specific education here than in the US. Whereas the US employment system largely just differentiates between 'those with university degrees' and 'those without' (oversimplification, but relatively true), the German system highly values:
1) having been educated within the specific field of the job,
- e.g., waiters study hospitality services, and
2) having continuity of employment in the specific field of the job,
- e.g., a waiter becomes a shift manager, becomes a general manager, and so on,
making career changes exponentially more difficult.
Together, all of this means that in Germany, authority figures routinely segregate young children along class lines and force them onto strict paths which lead to their government-issued adult lives.
Now, I'm purposefully presenting this harshly to emphasize my point. I actually don't think the German school system is a relatively bad one. In fact, I'm largely impressed by the educational outcomes it provides for it's students.
I simply think it's wise to consider the *negative aspects* of any system a country might look at as a model for it's own. (I'm looking at you, too, Teacher Training.)
No need to adopt the bathwater with the baby.
Because Germany's results do not show that either the success or the happiness of the children is as good as in Finland.
Additionally stop trying to shove people into trade school or pretend that's best for everyone or for the economy. The society in the US made the mistake of devaluing trades and shoving people into college and now you want to turn a 180 and do the opposite. It is absurd.
@@jglobetrotter2830 Well the present system doesn't seem to be working. Does it?
everyone should learn from Finland, Students love school in Finland, Because it's based on real Education and no BS!
I am SO glad this channel exists - both because of what do you think about and how do you think about it. Something tells me Marc Bloch would be really proud.
Too many standardised tests don't help and I'd say do more harm. Especially if you're in a city,town or whatever that doesn't have a lot of funding. It also doesn't really show if a student understands the material as hundreds of thousand if not millions of students have some sort of anxiety or disability.
To get around confounders, it would be interesting to know how children of Finnish immigrants do in US schools.
These days, we have so few Finnish immigrants that it's hard to tell.
The US is weird
Have you ever seen a society that isn't weird?
Yeah but us system seems exceptionally weird
I think exams really do more harm than good because we saw some students in the UK and other countries losing their mental health and gaining their stress.
Well, I guess *this is America*
government: *gives me standardized test*
me: thanks satan
I was a teacher assistant for a while.
I helped some Kindergartners take a standardized test once--- some of these kids literally didn't even know how to write their names yet, but needed to be able to take a test. In the middle of one test a child started bawling and screaming "I'M STUPID i"M STUPID- I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER SO I'M STUPID!" --- and then they started hitting themselves-- threw up--- and other kids started crying.
I saw the elementary school have extracurricular classes cut to spend more time on test prep--- they started paying the music and art teacher to do test tutoring for months rather than their normal classes. PE AND Recess were almost completely obliterated till the parents complained. They'd go months without history classes as well. --- They even quizzed kids in the cafeteria at lunch. Even classes that are considered part of the main curriculum- like reading for instance- were changed to match test preparation. So for 5th graders for instance--- all they did all year was read short 1-5 page stories- all year long--- reading chapter books on their own time or having the teacher have reading time with longer classic books was discouraged since that type of reading wasn't going to be on the test. And for classes like Math, Grammar, and Science--- rather than teaching lessons and then giving tests-- teachers would give long 1 hour tests at the beginning of the lesson--- spend a day or two going over the test answers--- and then retest them on the same material---- there was never actual "lessons"--- and there was very little improvement. To clarify--- teachers didn't want to do this--- they were required to do this by the administration or be fired.
To top it all off--- the school I was helping at was dirt poor and extremely segregated (there were 6 white kids in the entire school). There were some AMAZING teachers--- but many were fresh out of school making very low salaries with very little guidance on how to help their students succeed.. Some of the kids didn't have food at home--- or had parents in jail--- or went home and had to take care of their baby siblings because their parents had multiple jobs--- or even worse--- went home to abusive situations that were being investigated. The school was full of babies and we regularly had drug dealers at the corner and parents would get in violent race based fights at the doors of the school that required police intervention. These kids needed a healthy and safe environment where they could be empowered, inspired, and loved for being the amazing child they were born as--- not labeled as a number on a test that wasn't trying hard enough.
Kindergarteners have to take standardized tests? Seriously? This is what happens when you let narcissistic businessmen take over the education system.
We have 2 standardized tests all throughout school in my country. 112 seems absolutely absurd and unnecessary
Maria Heller Designs I agree
Technicality did a great video over this topic.
Standardized tests are one of the reasons why public education sucks. Their questions are too constricted and often end up being written in a way that makes them easy to misread if you're stressed-out. Essays help students flesh out ideas far better.
When I took the GRE I had to write essays that were graded by a computer.
Definitely writing out answers can create a flow of knowledge, rahter than just bring up one information that is on the student's short memory.
But that doesn't mean that a test about writing answers to questions needs to be better than a standardized test: It is way easier for the student to get lost whithin a question, run into a dead end or follow a false path and completely miss the point - which is also really punishing since every question has great value and time is usually short. And in the end, if the student doesn't deliver the results the teacher is expecting the grade will still be bad.
Personally I would prefer multiple choice tests becuase it is easier to get through the questions without having to focus on writing a proper argumentation that answers all aspects of the question well.
Maybe it's because multiple choice tests are really rare here in Germany and even if they are made the teachers still correct them by hand
Depends on the subject. How does one write an essay on a calculus test?
The worst questions are the ones that say CHOOSE THE BEST ANSWER. Multiple are right, you just have to choose the BEST one.
Marc Shanahan YES, I was taking my end of the school year test and it said, ‘what was America trying to gain during the Spanish-American war.’ And im like, weren’t there two? On for the freedom of Cuba and one for territory? They didn’t teach us about anything BEFORE the civil war, so I went with the Cuba one, and ended up getting it wrong... DANG YOU TESTING.
Alright, so I attend an American high school, and standardised tests are actually affecting schedules now. I fulfilled the math credits required for me to graduate, but my principle ruled that I take another math class so I stay fresh for the SAT. I’d understand if she wanted me to take algebra 2 or geometry (both classes I haven’t taken yet that I plan to knock out in community college in the free year I’m granted), but I had to take accounting, which was the math class I took last year. I don’t understand why I have to do that, especially since accounting isn’t on the SAT.
US: Pros-Uhh... Cons-Too many tests and too focused around money.
S Korea: Pros-Great Scores Cons-The sheer stress is literally killing children.
Finland: Pros- Great test scores and a focus on education rather than scores. Cons-Uhhh...
Caribbean: Similar to the US
I attended private schools. In elementary school, we tested 2x a year. In high school we tested 1x a year. and then we took ACTs(very few took SATs because ACT testing was done at my school). Our graduation rate was quite high and our college admittance was quite high. I had friends who were really rich, middle class, and some were borderline homeless at my school, but the average student did well because we had really good teachers. All of them had proper licencing. Most of them had Master's Degrees. All of them valued each student and our average class size was 20 students. I loved my hs. I was very lucky. The only way you wouldn't do well there, is if you didn't try, because the teachers were always there ready and willing to help you if you try. You could schedule tutoring if you had trouble understanding things. You could talk to your teachers or the dean. My transition into college was made easier because of how great my hs was. I do somewhat regret not listening to my counselor who encouraged me to go to junior college rather than a university. 1. because my school was very expensive and 2. because I no longer want a career in my degree. and I realised that after 2 quarters in my school, but I wanted to prove that I could finish(big mistake. I should have paid more attention to my ACT scores which encouraged me to go towards the current field that I'm interested in)
I'm not against testing as long as I know the answer but my problem is being asked to answer something I can't because I don't know the answer and don't have the information needed to answer it - creating a sense of stupidity and low self-esteem. If a standardized test asked me to know the definition of "concomitant" - a word I've never seen or heard before and have no idea what it means - how am I supposed to answer it unless I have been gifted by God or something???? Like ... how am I supposed to do well??? I hated it because I never felt smart enough to do well and that's something I can't help.
Truth be told, I think it there's tons of things like that that students aren't learning, that indicates that the teachers might not all be properly doing their jobs. The point of standardized tests isn't that those who fail the are stupid, but I understand if you feel that way. The point of those tests is that if the state finds that large numbers of students aren't learning the subjects that people in a certain grade should know, then the teachers aren't doing their job the way they should. One of the big problems is that teachers often hold minority students to lower standards and will often give them good grades regardless of whether they are doing well.
Have you done a presentation on the intersection of Scientific Racism and IQ Testing, something that is disturbingly still a thing.
Perhaps Racism in Psychology? I've personally had Psychiatrists (MD), Psychotherapists (PhD), and Counselors (LMSW) tell me that therapy has nothing to say about racism beyond counseling I must accept that I cannot change how other people think and behave, that racism is my perception.
Little more than a month ago here in San Francisco, CA a chief staff psychiatrist doing intake evaluation told me bluntly that Personal and Systemic Racism are not a real problem here.
I'm an almost 62 yeas old African-American Woman, a former System's Analyst (IT), and I live, sometimes better, sometimes worse with Major Depression and Social Anxiety.
Can't trust the medical field and being told to take it to Jesus is not helpful.
For me IQ is also an interest having qualified for MENSA as a child and discovering my parents were wrong, that really smart people can be just as racist as the intellectually "unencumbered".
Love the channel, your scholarship, wit and charm. Compliments to your team for the high production quality.
Muir
I took SAT in 2008 (the old format) and scored 1980 the first time and then 2240 the second time. It took me about one year of preparing and taking several books of practice tests. The SAT was useless, a waste of money and a waste of time. The SAT didn't teach me anything and I didn't learn anything from the SAT. It prepared nothing for my College.
Can I be Danielle Bainbridge when I grow up?! Probably not because I'm a few years older than her... but she is so worthy of the admiration, all the same!
Perhaps Canada would be a good comparison? It's more similar demographically than Finland or South Korea but still performs better than US. Don't know anything about their testing structure though...
We have a maximum of 6 standardized tests throughout all of school. When I saw that number in the hundreds I was like wtf? But yeah, our school system isn’t close to perfect but it seems way better than the US
@@miamafalda1118 Yeah when she said hundreds of tests I assumed they meant a test for every subject, which most people do, not government distributed ones.
I feel sad because I have a math test in a few more days :(
I'm interested to know: for what purpose those 112 tests have and what do they measure? Is there a short list for that? Just out of (morbid) curiosity..
I don't know about around the nation, but in my kids Texas schools a lot of those tests are "benchmarks" in elementary school. These are tests given during the first week, about mid-year, and often near the end of the year to help teachers and parents track where the students are in terms of grade level expectations. These tests help assess the improvement a child is making and what areas they need extra focus. The test at the beginning of the year also helps teachers see how much their students remember from the previous year and plan what information should be in the review unit at the beginning of the school year.
This is in addition to the statewide tests, which start in 3rd grade, that compare our students with the rest of the state and have a huge impact on our ratings.
From what i remember about all my schooling, we had had several categories
In early elementary, these tests were usually oral reading with the teacher measuring your reading speed. In later elementary, there are crt tests which test reading, math, and science and i think these were in multiple grades. There are also writing tests, one is taken in 5th grade, and one in 8th. There are the eoi tests in high school of which there are 7, i think, and these are specific to their classes. Act and sat tests, which are often taken multiple times. And benchmarks which were taken 3 times a year for basically your entire schooling.
And im sure im missing many.
This was my experience and it really blows my mind to this day. If the Teacher that's been working with your child every school day doesn't know how well your child is doing, then a test isn't going to reveal that any better. We need to empower Educators and get out of their way with this barrage of tests.
The standardized tests at my schools had 3 purposes.
1. To help teachers decide what classes to put you in
2. Some states don't give money to public schools that have a low average of standardized tests. (I personally think this is bull**** because public schools in the US get their money from both state and city taxes. In poor areas, the public schools aren't as good, and as a result, the students do worse on the tests. Then the school gets even less money from the state. It's a vicious downward spiral.)
3. Colleges look at a student's standardized tests while considering whether or not to enroll them.
To find an excuse to defund schools and pave the way for privatization.
I wouldn't have a problem with it...if it wasn't public. Like in college, there are a lot of anonymous survies that are optional to take. But in grade school to high school, you have to write your name, your address, etc so you can have your results handed back to you. I always scored low and this really did damage to my psyche. I understood what I was learning, but standardized testing developed a lifelong condition of test anexity over the years.
I'm from Taiwan and I'm in sixth grade. I have only taken one national test before in fifth grade which determines your language and math skill; but we have two big tests per semester. Teachers can assign tests too. I don't think it's too much, but I think tests doesn't really mean anything in elementary school.
Brilliant as always, and I LOVE your honeycomb necklace!!
Standardized testing for Pre-K is simply ridiculous. However, what I would have also liked to see in this video is whether increased standardized testing was a gradual change in US education, or an abrupt one. Based on my 3 generational experience, it seems to me this began with my grandkid's generation as a major thing. I recall having one week of standardized testing in 3rd, 5th and 8th grades each, PSAT in 10th, SAT in 11th, and that's it. I don't recall the Elementary or Middle school tests as having much impact on my learning, nor any special classes to prepare for the tests. I always loved doing the tests, as I test excellently, and therefore it was low stress for me, but I know I am not typical in that.
You certainly make some valid point. I personally am in favor of standardized testing, in large part because there does need to be some independent way to measure what students have learned about the important subjects. Things like good leadership skills, creativity, and so on are great and are important things for us to learn, but they are objectively measurable like math is, for example. In addition, statistics have show that teachers unfortunately have a tendency to hold minority students to lower standards. It's fairly common for a teacher to, for example, give a black student a good grade, even if they aren't actually doing very well
Always an interesting topic. How do we assess students aptitude and make sure they're not falling behind. The easiest way is to have a standardized test. But you want to make sure you're actually testing for what you want to test for. A very good point is that USA is very diverse. I don't know if there is a blanket solution. But because we are diverse we could potentially try different kinds of assessments in different parts of the country. A more holistic approach could be applied, a broader picture of the student. Colleges are still expecting the student to take an SAT, but they're taking into account the socioeconomic background of the students and why they're applying to that specific school. I wish I knew other theories of assessment. There needs to be more research in the area. People have lots of ideas on how to assess students, but I'd like to make sure that these assignments are going to assess what they're meant to.
Not sure if this is a different theory of testing, but the one I've been eyeing recently is used for training in the US. Certain skills and tasks are graded as 'pass/fail', with a maximum threshold allowed for mistakes to be made. There are also critical criteria, where missing even one of those means you fail automatically no matter how well you did otherwise. These are usually things that would endanger you or the person(s) you're with, or are criteria deemed vital to understanding. Failure means you retry later, or retrain if you missed something critical, with no limit on retries. The emphasis is on getting you to perform the task or demonstrate the skill, and you will do it no matter how long it takes you.
However, this is used for skills training. I'm not sure how applicable this approach is to education, especially since it involves a lot of memorization of steps and doesn't allow for intuitive leaps. It also requires one-on-one or small group testing, since you have to perform the task in front of someone in order for your effort to count, and this takes a lot of time. It does allow a teacher to see where a student is weak, or where a teacher may not be communicating concepts, and allows them to emphasize those areas in upcoming lessons.
Another way to assess students may be to have an aptitude test at the *beginning* of the year, rather than at the end, to allow teachers to see what areas a student needs to work on and where students may be ready for more advanced material.
I used the circles to draw quick patterns 2nd year in KS. Was caught and. Then locked in ISS room till I actually took the test. I rushed through the test because I decided reading the entire engineering section of the library was more useful. I am now a CIVIL ENGT
I don’t know what but a speech from my teacher always stuck with me. It basically boiled down to ones life being dictated by tests. Anyone else ever get such a speech?
The low score on my middle school praxis exam dictates that I cannot become a math teacher, although I am good in math. I’m not good with timed tests. They make me anxious and stressed 😩. There will continue to be a decline in teachers if testing practices don’t change for students and teachers alike. Well, at least I can get into software engineering !
In South Africa, schools usually have 2-3 tests per subject (6 subjects) each term (3-4 terms depending on the schools curriculum). Revision tests are used during examination terms. Certain Curriculums teach critical thinking and not a standardised test to prepare for finals, which requires critical thinking, stretches your brain, tests your knowledge and does not rely on routine procedure
Great video! I think Finland's educational programs are interesting and I would love to see how they would be implemented in other countries.
I know our teachers have worked with other countries educators a lot, but I'm not sure if the system has been fully implemented in any other country. Guess I should go ask around
If you find any good info let me know.
Well.. Found out a lot of things and they started to make sense really quickly. It might not be what you asked directly, but this is how the gears are turning.
If we'd stop to think for a moment how hard it is to rethink & rebuild a whole education system and polish up all teachers methods, it can seem, slightly put, a daunting task and no body really wants that on their hands. So today's answer: education export. To simply wrap it all to a not too long comment, our educators and facilities collaborate abroad with public sectors, businesses and offer services.
It means that the full education system will most likely never see our type of iteration implemented in another country (because it's state/nationally funded, free for citizens, cultural differences and other similar factors), but the good and meaningful parts of it are shared and actively put to good use in many places already around the world. Some excerpts from translated headlines around here on the topic:
"Minister of Education: Saudi Arabia sends up to a thousand teachers to Finland -- .. to learn about Finnish teaching programs and their application to Saudi Arabia."
"No nurse is not a minion - Finns renew their health care Kazakhstan. Education exports improve nursing education and health services."
"From Savonia Polytechnic to water and food know-how to emerging countries"
And then here's a good follow up from Debateocity in RUclips - Should The World Adopt Finland's Education System? --/watch?v=E_W2oS6HvTo
After that, in the previous video mentioned Pasi Sahlberg TEDxEast 2012 -- /watch?v=TdgS--9Zg_0 -- touches on this topic too. While he is one of the more expressive Finns, please don't judge us by his extravagant performance.
That's the meat of what I learned while poking at the topic. I tried to keep it clear and simple so if you have any thoughts or questions, please do ask away.
I am impressed. Great job on the research! This was very helpful. I hope you do not mind me tweeting out a screenshot of this. It is a good example of how helpful some RUclips replies can be. I now have a different perspective about exporting education.
Glad to be of help. And no, I don't mind a tweet. It took a good chunk out of my day to poke around the net yesterday, but I was also interested to read about the news covering this topic so it was fun little task.
I live in Italy, and I have 3-5 tests per week
@1:37,
It really depends on the individual students. Sometimes, when your students have test-anxiety, you need to discuss test-taking strategy a lot. However, dealing with anxiety and stress is a part of life, so maybe some test-taking strategy should be part of the curriculum.
Agree with Finland.
Lol, got an ad for your channel while watching this video (Still watched the whole thing)
Why is this even a question? Of course it hurts students. It was never supposed to help students, though. It helps the systematic sorting of academics, not students themselves.
i'm from australia, so while we do have standardised testing it's not nearly as stringent as it is elsewhere in the world. what really makes me curious however is if students in countries such as the US get essays or even short answer questions in these tests? I understand that it's harder to mark responses in a standardised fashion when they can potentially all be different, but isn't important for students to build critical thinking skills and learn how to form an argument? when I went on exchange to south korea (whose university education system is very close to the US) i was surprised to see that second and third year classes dedicated class time to teaching students how to write essays and i feel that in an age where we are bombarded by information it is important to learn how to evaluate arguments.
for background, during my university entrance exams i sat 2 different exams for english, both of which where completely comprised of essays and short answer responses, ancient history which involved short answer, an essay and a short multiple choice section and biology which had a longer MC section and also had short answer and essay components. i also submitted a body of work for my 3rd english class, and for my japanese class one assessment was a speaking exam where i was essentially asked to make up a short essay on the spot.
I'm always terrified about spring testing.
I’m an American certified teacher who left teaching in America due to the excess of testing which greatly limited the teachers ability in the classroom. We spent so much time taking test that it crippled our teaching time. I moved to China only to find out that the Chinese system is different yet still problematic. I wish I could just teach children to be creative thinkers instead of teaching them to pass the test.
I do agree with you to some extent, but in the end, there does need to be some sort of standard that is assessed independently by the state. Skills like creativity aren't things that can be objectively measured. What one person considers creative might not be creative to another person. Math, on the other hand, is objective and is easily measurable. The big problem is that statistics have found that many teachers hold minority students to lower standards. Studies that have shown that teachers are often more likely to give black and disabled students good grades because they don't want to hold minorities behind, even if those minorities aren't doing well.
Techno Fan I don’t like standardized test because when I was a child, I was the smartest kid in my math class. So much so that the teacher allowed me to teach the math lessons. But when I got the results from the standardized test, it said that I should be placed in a remedial math class for middle school. My teacher had to fight for me and I ended up in the regular math class. But I should’ve been in the advanced month class. Standardized test are not inherently bad. How about we just have one test every year. Instead, our students spend half of the school year taking test. Why do they need to take test every month? It’s excessive. And also, how did ethnicity become a part of your response. I’ve never heard of teacher marking incorrect answers right because of someone’s skin color! That is ludicrous. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Teachers can’t manipulate answers that sounds so crazy and racist too.
@@heyheyhey40
Teachers can manipulate answers on tests that are made by them themselves though. As someone with a learning disability myself, I had teachers who gave me good grades even if I wasn't actually doing that that good. I do however agree about having one test per school year, which how it was when I was in school. My understanding is that the tests that are given once a month are from the teacher rather than the state. As for you teaching math lessons, that's okay if what you're referring to is mentoring/helping other students with math, but if the teacher allowed you to teach the class, that's a crime on the teacher's part. To teach at school, teachers need a teaching license.
Techno Fan You completely misunderstood my meaning. When I was in the 5th grade, she would give us Math homework. The next day, we would review that homework on the board. There were times when exercise after exercise I was the ONLY one who could get up on the board and show my work and how I achieved the correct answer. Allowing students to teach isn’t a crime. It happens everyday in classrooms around the nation. Teachers use many methods: teacher to class, teacher to student, and student to student. All good classrooms have a varied approach.
Techno Fan Test come from all levels. Federal government, state government, and even the local school system. Our current system is a disaster.
A balanced video. Testing isn't learning, and rate of college enrolment is a poor measure of education performance. Ultimately, we want children to learn in a happy and safe environment, instead of always comparing their performances and tons of route learning. Excessive testing destroys morale and self-confidence.
Just 112? I have been getting 32 tests each year since playschool ( Yes, I had exams in playschool).
1935...the computer processing of standardized tests. This is outstanding.....I am sure, this fact sounds crazy for people living in developing countries..
I went to one of the highest rated schools in the state. It’s been between 1st and 3rd, forever. I never understood this. There was nothing special about our school. I always felt the school was underperforming. If my school was one of the best, if not the very best, in the state... then what would a “worse” school look like? Anyways... I was just thinking about all the testing that we did. I think it was my sophomore year(?), we had standardize testing to do. We didn’t even have any prep for them. We weren’t told prior that it was coming up. It was just something we all of the sudden had to do. I don’t feel like this is “allowed”, but they would make you take them twice. Let’s say you get a C... well they want you to retake it and get a B, or an A. Those tests take SO long. I started my science test, only to find I’d never even heard of what they were asking. I had “normal” classes, so I have no idea where we were supposed to have known that from. I figured if I really didn’t know, and regardless I’d have to retake it anyhow... that I wasn’t going to waste the time testing. I clicked through the whole thing. I’m pretty sure I selected “C” for almost every answer... And what do ya know... I “excelled” in science, according to my test scores. I think way more importance is placed on testing and grading than it should be. We might have high test scores... but can these kids do anything else? Sure they can regurgitate answers, but do they have any life skills? I’ve seen or heard about this so many times, where kids around us don’t even know how sweep. Grades do NOT necessarily indicate someone having a good work ethic. I can’t think of a single person who I went to school with, who’s done especially well in life. Looks have gotten my classmates further than grades have. Several pretty girls have married very wealthy men. A handful of good looking guys are now models. A lot of kids go to college here, but many of them haven’t done anything since. They have the same sort of jobs they would have had without going to college. They go for the parties and because their parents can afford to send them. My husband’s a manager at a company where a lot of people come to to get their foot in the door. Some of them have fancy sounding degrees, and yet they’ve never worked a day in their life. It’s a mess. I wish we had a system that focused more on work ethic and actual life skills.
Off topic: Nice necklace Danielle!
Korea doesn't have more standardized tests, just more high stakes tests. I was a teacher there, and students usually 1-2 standardized tests per year. All other test (usually 1 midterm and one final each semester) are created by the teachers. So they are tests based on a standardized curriculum, but they are not standardized tests.
So what I'm seeing is not the amount of testing or even the schools, it's how much the PARENTS encourage their kids to do well at school. But I hardly ever see any focus on having better parenting skills to get kids to do well at school.
This video should be like 10 seconds long max. like just the intro, the question, and then “yes”
I have had to talk troop’s off the edge after they fail tests who knew more about their jobs the troops who aced the tests but sucked at their jobs! These are grown men and women who have passed military training with high marks. When it comes to schools I think a blended system would do much better. Tests and over all proof of applying the knowledge with out limits should be used. Also a split path should be applied. Those who are collage bound take classes relevant to their needs and those going I. Trade take relevant classes. Both are open to take each others but higher priority to those on their tracks.
i'd say go finland way, few test
not too few that each test can significantly change your future but not too large that it becomes a chore
here we have four mandatory test for elementary, junior high and senior high school. so in total 12 test
I also wonder *who* is being tested in Finland and South Korea. In America, we test everybody; even those who are behind developmentally or have other significant problems. Are there any "slow" students in South Korea being tested, or is it because their culture is so test-driven that those kinds of students aren't even tested?
I'm glad that I only took this test like twice in high school after that I just when to the beach 🏖️ when the school was doing the standardized test
i’m british, and we do not use these tests. i’ve seen them in movies and thought they were old. i’m shocked they still use them.. that’s not learning. in britain you must write the answers yourself
To the people of South Korea I say this “sometimes how you teach your lessons is more important then the lesson itself”
He, so I am a Dutch student. I find that maybe the rest of the world could benefit from looking at our school system. We all start in primary school mingled and with one significant test at the end which will determine what kind of highschool level you will be recomanded to study in. In highschool we have different levels of education, mostly based around theoratical way of learning (high level) or more practical way of learning (low level). after you finisht your first highschool degree you can choose to take two or three years more in high school to get the higher level. That is not the only way to get a higher level in aducation. If you a studied high level in high school you can enroll directly to a university. If you have a lower level depending on how low you can first apply to collage (for us it is called MBO) which is also more practical schooling. After you finished with the collage you can choose to go to a pre grad program and after that university, ( this is the route that I am taking. And a middle level in high school means you can apply to an academy/ pre-grad ( for us its called HBO). You can also wait till you are 21 and take a test to any school/ university you would like, depending on your score if you would get in. The international students I studied with were always super confused about our system which is funny to me. But also here in the Netherlands we look up to the Scandinavian school system as it is free.
The sba and sats are good because you don't know what the questions are it's more of an iq test but most tests are crap it's all a memory game and for someone with adhd it makes it harder to learn because I have a smaller active memory and rushing through and memorizing things in class doesn't work I need it to go to my long term memory before I forget it
But what does Finland do in alternative to testing?
The real answer is YES, it lowers kids confidence in studying and I think schools fucked up enough, I’m going Bbbbbbb, and one c in science like bro wtf I’ve been working so hard
Your hair looks EXTRA GOOD in this video!
To whoever is running this channel. I thought you’d like to know your add times do not include clickable links. At least not through all platforms. I neglected finding you because of this. I’m here now. Can’t wait to look around.
So relatable to SAT and ACT.
Giving these children anxiety before they even reach 10 is harmful it sets them up to have anxiety later when testing causing she to not test well even though they do well in school in regular basis
4:20
Glad you brought that up.
If you exclude black and hispanic student scores America becomes competitive again.
The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science.
When US racial and ethnic groups are separately compared with other countries, Asian and white students regularly perform at or near the top of international rankings.
While black and Hispanic students typically rank at or near the bottom.
Source:
www.google.com/url?q=files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED535873.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjnlfWh6MvcAhWptVkKHT_wB_sQFggTMAI&usg=AOvVaw2FUUkhchMTGMSg2cZFAMqV
Yes, not knowing the answer to a test question can be very stressful.
Most of the things we learn at school we forget and only are taught so we can pass a test to graduate so we can get a better job….
Please just 1 test every end of the year. Please. I am in 5th grade currently and my worst grade every is an A- and I am best in math so to see the math scores made me feel special bacuse I am gifted but also sad that we did not score higher. I go to carrollton's school around Canton Ohio and we take 4 per year with many other dotted around, so probly taking up to 100 decently important tests a year for a small school. AND WHY DO WE HAVE A TIME RESTRAINT???????? The us must just be weird and bad. Our food we eat our trash and deadly design of eletric items like outlets compared to briten outlets and our schooling. We schould learn stuff we need not how many water melon slices Jimmy can get if he cuts 83 water melons into 17 slices each. We need to learn banking and how the world works!!!!!!!!!!!!! And me going into 6th grade I will be in all advanced with roboticts class 3 and many other extra classes. Also I am in 4h kinda and I am a boy scout also a few other things. How will I have time to sleep and wake up at 5 to get on a bus and then take a test when I will have no spare time in my life.
With all the emphasis on helping disabled students, and I am not necessarily against that, we overlook the gifted students. I taught myself to read, but I couldn't take advanced courses until last year. Forcing gifted kids to take average courses convinces them they don't have to study to do well, and then when they can take advanced classes they freak out because suddenly they have to work hard. Also, they don't test smart kids for learning disabilities because it's assumed that if you're smart you don't have disabilities. I know there's something off with me. I get really emotional over little things, or go for days in an emotionless, zombielike state. I get really angry when people tap their pencils or make gross noises, and although I've learned to cope, I used to not eat my lunch because it was super loud and smelly in the cafeteria. But because I have high test scores I have never gotten diagnosed with a condition.
Sorry not sorry if I seem kinda whiny to you, but I can't possibly be the only one who goes through this crap.
It's very hard to compare the US to places like Finland and SK which are highly homogenous, have low second language learner %, and have far less variance in SES. I'm not saying it's pointless, but there are definitely things to keep in mind.
Ex. not all Finnish kids make it through to HS because they are tracked in trades schools much earlier. Those test scores aren't counted.
In SK there is cultural support of parents prepping and caring about students' grades. Not so in the US.
Again, not saying it's a fruitless comparison an that they arent' things to learn. but there are important differences to keep in mind.
In my country 🇪🇹🇪🇹🇪🇹🇪🇹 every Friday is exam day
Ok but for what subjects
Ooh I thought you were going to focus on how standardized tests--at least college aptitude tests--don't necessarily measure anything except test-taking ability.
Having lived in Singapore, a country that ranks even higher than South Korea, I've noticed that the education forces students to go extra hard and study study study in high school, whereas compared to Singapore the US slacks off in high school and then kicks it into gear in college.
I like this approach more because frankly forcing every student to do something they have no interest in will devalue learning and turn it into a chore. Students don't learn to learn, they learn to get into a good school because good school = good life. This doesn't promote creative thinking later in life, since students are not allowed to do what they want (does this make sense?).
Having been in hs through the us. A lot of people do slack off in hs but a majority of it is giving up entirely on our futures , and having to study so much that we get burnt out from the test anxiety. Because our whole system requires learning memorization on a pass/fail system of regurgitated information, all for the test prep, instead of actually teaching. We aren’t allowed to use any recourses to check to see if we were right or how we could improve-and all of our worth was based on how much we can remember on a short period of time . A lot who end up going to college either do better or worse depending on the recourses we have and if we can learn how to use it based on creativity-depending on location or funding. But technically both systems are terrible because although you learn more in college, it’s incredibly expensive and a lot of those specialized degrees don’t guarantee placement in the workforce, or if you can even use it on a resume. Pretty much it’s a corporate scam.
Maybe the rubric we choose to examine standardised tests shouldn't be college admissions. Just saying, spending even more money to do even more tests isn't always the desirable outcome. Not trying to invalidate the ranking of the US compared to other countries based on college admissions v tests portion of the video, just trying to spark some brainstorming about what else we could use in a future video
I feel like standardized tests/exams do more HARM to students in the school system. This goes for IQ, SAT/ACT, Regents Exam, you name it. It is measuring more intelligence and it is unfair. Good academics are more important and they actually demonstrate growth and measurement. I hate tests/exams. We all get stressed, even us as smart people. Even though, we study really hard.
1935 machines could not be properly characterized as 'computers'. At that time 'computers' were people. The machines of that era were electromechanical in nature, for example punched card sorters.
That one made me go "blink!" as well. Computers? Well only kinda...As for the punch cards, I used to have a relative who actually worked with one of those types of machines, and kept some of them to show us. And we were like "Oooh, exotic ancient computer history..." XD
What is the difference between NCEA and the USA's standardised tests? I have only ever done NCEA.
Is it known what makes a student able to score well on standardized tests? Is there some ability that some have and other’s don’t?
Hey I don't want comments but please tell me how can we improve standardized testing
I don't have a problem with standardized testing. It's just the way they are designed. They don't test your knowledge on a subject, they test how you can finesse the answer without knowing anything or understanding the question. They don't require you to think of the correct solution, just for you to assume what the right answer is.
Well, I'd like to say a few words as a student from India, now studying abroad. it is not as bad as south korea, as the pressures only start mounting around 6th grade, it is fiercely competitive. there is two "central" exam which you are assessed based on, being IITJEE mains and advanced, and let me tell you, this system, while it seems to work on the surface, harms the students horribly, and it doesn't hold up either. I kept falling sick as the exam approached, and I was sick on both exam days. now in hindsight, I can see that I hardly gave myself any sort of rest, compromising my immunity, and therefore my performance, throwing majority of my post- 8th std education out of the window. why I say that, will soon become evident.
The second problem, is that in a bigger country, people will crack the basis for your exam. what I mean by that is, they will build up techniques to complete the exam without putting in the required work. you'll have to increase the level of the courses as you go on, as they'll crack every type of problem, and will have memorized the steps. that's exactly what happened back at home. now, thanks to that, the university's first year is comparable to my 8th grade in India.
Oh and did I mention the worst part? this hyper focusing on studies has resulted in my completely forgetting how to socialize and move in a group. even today, 3 years after I've left India, and been living on my own, I still struggle to do basic things like maintain a conversation, approach someone,so on. The resulting loneliness is crippling, the cure is within reach, but it's too hard to reach out and use it. my only friends are one person from school who the system would have left to rot if I didn't step in and help, which probably costed me some marks and therefore closed off pretty much all the "reputable careers" in India, a.k.a Programming, Engineering and Medical, and a Second, an Indian junior who has been through this and has broken free.
Currently, I'm working out, and tutoring juniors, to improve my confidence in social situations and also get some spare change so I can actually learn how to budget and cooking, which, in my opinion, is what I should have developed in high school instead of sifting through the piles of textbooks and finishing the never ending stream of assignments. Anyways I'm positive soon AI will take over most jobs, and at least my kids won't have to suffer through such a horrible system.
I feel that standardized tests do more harm than good. I've always hated doing those tests in school. I hated the idea of being compared to the rest of my peers in that manner.
I can only imagine the level of pressure those kids face in south korea just to be successful. Hats off to them
Sorry to break it to you most kill them selfs
So there is no causal connection between the frequency of standardized tests and the resulting quality of education.
Better to implement a system like Finland.
Poorly performing students - majority minority - are forcing teachers to teach to the test. They have to or else even greater numbers of those students would do poorly on the teats.
So much for academic American Exceptionalism.
Don't sharpen your pencils you can fill in the line faster with a dull one. Ahh shit they got me...
Success in tests correlates to the importance placed on education in the students’s environment.
lets be honest, we are students prob in mid or high school, having a test tomorrow, and is very stressed about it, at the same time, you think of how you hate tests.
I think it all boils down to how the tests are presented