None of that has to do with Star Wars. Trump was best buddies with Epstein but there are people ready to vote him into the white house. Why is the morality of the certain people so realative.
...she’d worked at Miramax for a couple of years, a position opened to be Weinstein’s assistant. She wanted to be a producer, so she interviewed for the job. Finally, one of Weinstein’s former assistants took her out to lunch. “Do not take this job,” the former assistant said. “You will see things you will never be able to unsee, and you will do things you will never forgive yourself for.” This was not Leslye Headland, she did take the job.
They just want to be perceived as morally correct, people like headlamp have no actual morality and will just say what they think people want to hear. That is how someone who knowingly served young actresses to a predator is defended by feminists.
They just want to be perceived as morally correct, people like headlamp have no actual morality and will just say what they think people want to hear. That is how someone who knowingly served young actresses to someone like weinstein is defended by feminists.
Like Reylo before it, crimes against you and humanity as a whole don't matter so long as the guy makes the heroine hot and bothered, apparently. No, she bares no responsibility for enabling further atrocities because she lets him go instead of stopping him for the sake of her misguided crush, either.
Saw A video recently from Psychologist Jordan Peterson saying how the romantic interests in most Mills and Boone type books are vampires werewolves, billionaires, surgeons, pirates. Women seemed to be programmed to desire taming beasts.
@@samuel3253 The sad part is that they don't even want the beast tamed. They get hot about the actions of taming the beast but once it's domesticated, it's not fun or exciting anymore. So they move on to the next wild animal.
What baffles me is that the Acolyte paints the Jedi as policing the Force, when in all truth they don’t. The witches of Dathomir operated with no Jedi intervention, and Jedi were allowed to leave the Order and were even given means to establish themselves in their new life outside of the Order. It was the Empire who policed the Force - they sent literal inquisitors to hunt down Jedi and Force-sensitive people. This message of freedom to experience the Force in your own way fits far better in the Imperial era than the late High Republic era.
Yep. After all, it was Ole Palps that felt threatened by the Dathomir Witches and made the order to take them out. The whole "Jedi steal toddlers or children away from their parents" is EXTRA aggravating for me.
Not to mention certain species like the Miraluka had their own species centric Force Orders that didn't teach the same as the Jedi. While the Jedi may have been one of the Big Two (the other being Sith) there were hundreds of smaller orders that operated in the same vein as the Coven. Like the Coven however, the Jedi only interfered if they became a threat because the teachings would give rise to another Dark Side threat that destroyed the Republic centuries before.
This. Even in the show, they weren't going to take the girls without permission, only requested testing them. They were outside jurisdiction. The Jedi counsel told them to leave the group alone. It's teenage Torbin being hotheaded that takes them back to the cult...but then the cult attacks them, making it a self-defense issue.
Prequels: story about how fascism can insidiously subvert democracy from within, gradually stripping away all the ideals and establish its own tyranny. Fasism power is not strength it's deception. Dark Side and fascism is striclty connected both here and in the OT. Acolyte: "What is those fascist were unjustly persecuted and misunderstood?"
That is totally right. It continues to baffle me how many people in a wide variety of ways can't just open their eyes and see what is in front of them. Or at least look into what they are trying to counter argue before they make a dumb claim. I'm sorta glad to see most people know how to fact check. Not for long though
MAD RESPECT for the way Thor talked about the "Hey, Thor Super Thanks." It didn't even occur to me that it could set a precedent. See everyone, he's even Jedi-like in real life. 🤔😁🙏
Which is why people should start supporting independent creators. Not that they *will*, but they *should*. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ -- Diamond Dragons (series)
@@EverestBlooms-1268 best analogy I've seen is that it's like those bullies in high school who mocked you for liking it... are now the ones writing it.
@@marhawkman303 the showrunner Lesley Headland is an actual villian I swear. She worked with Harvey Weinstein and was his personal assistant. Acolyte was the nail on the coffin for me and Star Wars. I won’t be consuming any Star Wars content until they get rid of her and everyone else who’s destroying Star Wars and its legacy.
@@EverestBlooms-1268 agreed, she once said in an interview the thing that defined her career, was... being Weinstein's assistant. Leslye said that herself!!!!!
Disney: "The good thing about Star wars is there is no good or bad it's all grey area. Me (an intellectual): nah bro, you see the evil old man cackling to himself about power in the pitch black robes, surrounded by faceless soldiers in a massive dooms day space station called "The death star"... That guy is straight up evil. If you think there's some sort of redemption arc he can go or some tragic back story to justify this you are the evil pretending like evil doesn't exist.
While many individuals can have redemption, some can't. There's No redemption for Palpatine. He's space Hitler. I wouldn't put it pass them to make him misunderstood.
@@kaleiohulee6693The hilarious thing is that basically every person who’s ever written Palpatine knows he was always a bad egg. Even as a child he was a complete sociopath, bro killed his whole family just to gain favor with Plagueis! Of course Disney runs things now so they’ll probably still try to make him sexy and sympathetic 😂
It is disturbing how some companies in the entertainment industry are trying to glorify evil these days. Then we have that irritating topic of making everything grey. It really isn’t a good message for future generations. It feels like some of these companies are trying to avoid decent messages that we can use in life.
But everyone keeps coming back for more. The wealthy stay wealthy, and the poor just keep complaining. Instead, they should be supporting independent artists. But they never will. It is what it is. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ -- Diamond Dragons (series)
because they are runned by people who are evil themselfs. When you hire for director person that was assistent of pedophile rapist, what's there to expect ? Not morality for sure.
That is correct. Most people preaching grey are either just parroting an interesting idea without really knowing how that would play out irl, have a specific definition like picking the better of two evils, or they're knowingly blurring right and wrong so they themselves don't look so bad. My favorite Star Wars story doesn't speak to me despite having a guy protagonist or despite having good and bad people with little in between. Their pain and experiences are what I related to and they helped me out of depression, not affirming me by reminding me of what I'm mad about. I feel bliss when someone I relate to or admire can find closure or avoid devolving, because I like to think I can be better than what I was/am. Star Wars, similar to Lord of the Rings, is about humanities relationship with power, good people helping each other and taking responsibility, and temptation. It isn't about the Christian "allegory" or "patriarchy", it is about progress. Individual, self imposed progress. And that is why Survivor was so damn depressing, though I hope and doubt Cal gets the Return of the Jedi ending rather than the Rogue One forgotten but they did something end.
This is why Rogue One and Andor are so good and were so well-received. They show how self-sacrifice for a bright future for EVERYONE is important and worth doing.
Yet it did nothing to Star Wars Universe at large, it just shows how inferior Kathleen Kennedy canon can be with the whole "all media in one" sort of deal.
How do you write a show about the bad guys that is about self sacrifice for a bright future without it not being the bad guy show.... god.... there is more in star wars that hope for a bright future... they make a Boba Fet show, people complain he isn't Boba for working towards a brighter future... because he is the bad guy. Now they make a dark side centric show and you want self sacrifice as a theme?
@@thedude925 I think it's that the Acolyte tried to portray something, most think of as bad, as instead being good. Thereby inverting the broadly accepted morality in SW. In Rogue One, Jin is the hero who ultimately sacrifices to do the right thing; as does Andor albeit they both have some moral ambiguity. In Bobba Fett, the issue is that he's a bad guy who was being altruistic for no apparent reason. If he was just a bad guy, that might've been fine (as long as it wasn't spun as he's actually the good guy, which is what they seem to be trying to do with Qimir, Osha, and Mae).
I was 8 back in 1977 and Star Wars DID provide that “Hope” that I could do things in my future. Believe in myself and surround myself with good people. I cant imagine coming up today and looking at something like the acolyte for inspiration. What a damn shame.
Try something from an independent creator. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ -- Diamond Dragons (series)
That is really awesome to hear/read. My favorite Star Wars story doesn't speak to me despite having a guy protagonist or despite having good and bad people with little in between. I feel bliss when someone I admire or have the same pain as can find closure or avoid corruption, because I need to think I can be better than what I was/am. Their pain and experiences are what I related to and they helped me out of depression, not affirming my anger. Star Wars, similar to Lord of the Rings, is about humanities relationship with power, good people helping each other and taking responsibility, and temptation. It isn't about the Christian "allegory" or "patriarchy", it is about progress. Individual, self imposed progress. And that is why Survivor was so damn depressing, though I hope and doubt Cal gets the Return of the Jedi ending rather than the Rogue One forgotten but they did something end.
"The light and dark sides aren’t independent cosmic things, but rather different paths to channeling the Force. To adhere to the light means you let the Force “flow through you.” It asks for tranquility. By denying your ego, you learn to properly listen to the natural rhythm of the Force and the universe, making yourself a conduit for its power. The dark side, by contrast, is fueled through intense emotions. By looking inward and channeling your ego-through pain, hate, fear, etc.-you manipulate your connection to the Force, and bend it to your will. Notice that the places where heroes learn to master the light side are open and teeming with life (Dagobah and Ahch-To), and they do so through solemn meditation. Yoda instructs Luke to listen and comprehend the things around him, like the rocks and the woods and the animals. Luke teaches Rey to feel the motion, life, light, and balance of things around her. For both of them, the crux is understanding that they live in an interconnected universe. The light side isn’t about being virtuous so much as it’s about being wise. It’s about being in tune with the natural flow of the world. Being a good person is a byproduct of gaining that perspective. Notice then that the places that are inhabited by the dark side are cold, desolate, and yes, dark places. Our heroes confront the dark side completely alone, because to walk the dark path is to be alone. You access the light side by letting go of the self, but you access the dark side by shutting out everything but the self. It’s not about pain or hate. Those are just sensations that let you focus on yourself. It’s ultimately about ego. We see this in Luke’s vision on Dagobah, where he sees himself in Darth Vader. And we see it again in Rey’s vision on Ahch-To, where the emptiness of the cave becomes filled with only her. The true appeal of the dark side isn’t mere power. It offers control in a chaotic universe. It tells you not only that you matter, but that you are all that matters. You are powerful, and are the ultimate master of your destiny. Once you accept that, power quickly becomes an end unto itself. Vader is a good example. In the OT, the Darth Vader comics, and in Rebels, Vader is regularly presented as cold, unrelenting, and cruel. For all the warnings about emotions leading to the dark side, Vader seems strangely in control of his. But that makes sense when you understand the dark side as being about ego, not emotion. If your ultimate goal is power, then your enemy will quickly become life itself, and this is exactly how Darth Vader behaves in Rebels and in the comics. He is contemptuous of everything in his path. He doesn’t want to die, but he doesn’t care much about living either. His sole purpose is to be strong. If you accept that you are all that matters, you will not love the things that made you. You will resent them, even hate them. And so part of embracing the dark side is destroying your old identity. This is particularly well-illustrated by the tradition of Sith names (Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, etc.). Vader has detached himself from everything that defined Anakin Skywalker so that he could become Darth Vader. The man we see is the way he is because all that’s left is contempt and anger. He doesn’t have grand designs for the Empire, or a sense of the common good, or adhere to any real philosophy. He doesn’t even seem to take joy in killing. It’s simply become his nature. It’s what he does. Anakin was a person. Darth Vader is power. In razing the Jedi Temple, attacking Padme, and finally slaying Obi-Wan, Vader ritualistically killed the parts of him that made him Anakin Skywalker. In Darth Vader #24, we see in his mind’s eye that this is how he views himself. He’s not Anakin. In fact, he hates Anakin. Anakin had history. He had friends, family, teachers, a mother, etc. Darth Vader has nothing. He comes from nowhere and he has no connections. He is pure, and he sees the entire universe as beneath him. That is, until he meets his son."
At 1st, I was like "is this gonna be a smart alec comment?" But then I started reading and couldn't stop. This sounds like many of the conversations I had with my friends growing up. Great stuff man. The handle is dope too 🙏
That is a really good way of looking at it. Also, this ego encourages them to think everything is either a slight against them or in favor of them. Superiority/victim complexes always come back to "they are wrong", "they are against me", "I am right", etcetera, and are precursors or the core of narcissism. To them, a contradicting desire can only be a threat to their lifestyle, desire, or actions. They lash out at and betray friends and lovers bcoz there is no such thing as a friend that thinks independently of his ego. Anakin's/ Bode's paranoia is a reflection of this ever growing ego that he is competition to everyone (in reality he sees everyone as competition).
The weird thing about what happened to Torbin is that he made it to Master without anyone in the temple seeing the massive guilt he was carrying within himself. And what about his master, Inara? Surely she knew what he was feeling, but never did anything about it.
The morality of Star Wars has inspired me and reflected my moral values over the years. Now, two romanticized Sith staring at the sunset after killing people in a selfish act of freedom inspires Headland, but it doesn't inspire me.
Hollywood *executives* - the ones who do no real work and yet make bank when the movies they greenlight cross a billion dollars, even if that's because each ticket is $25 a pop. Only gotta sell 40 million tickets that way. There's something sinister going on, and ironically, it's coming from the side that says it's right.
Disney Star Wars seems to have this rather unhealthy obsession with romanticising women entering into a potentially abusive relationship with an evil male character with the implication that they can change a murderous psychopath. First Rey with Kylo. Now Osha with Qimir. It seems a really disturbing thing to do with a franchise is overtly trying to target a larger female audience.
The irony is that, that is EXACLTY what a female audience wants. "He's a threat to everyone but me because I'm special to him." The problem is the Star Wars setting isn't conductive to a modern day setting so women have difficulty placing themselves in those roles. It's why hallmark movies are always Modern Day New York or San Fran.
That's a constant on every single piece of Disney media. It is in their rules, all major relationships must be toxic, that's why Mara Jade got the boot from the Disney canon
Exactly right. Instead of showing how selfish the Sith and Dark Side are, how ultimately self destructive that entire philosophy is, it made it glamorous. It made them oppressed not because they deserve to be suppressed as selfish and evil but because the Jedi and Light Side are oppressors for no good reason.
I saw a review for Outlaws. And it referred to seeing the SW world through the eyes of a scoundrel refreshing as opposed to through the eyes of a, quote, “Pompous Jedi.” I was like wtf happened to Star Wars? Since when are the Jedi the bad guys? It’s fucking unreal how this is where we are…
It is refreshing. I'd like a counterpart to jedi fallen order where I'm an inquisitor. And not one on a redemption arc. No. I want to be the bad guy. Or a kotor style where I get to choose to be evil when I don't feel like being a goody two shoes jedi every single time in every single situation.
I can’t stand moral relativism and it’s clear headland and the Acolyte fans didn’t get the prequels with how they depicted the Jedi. They were dogmatic cultists but they were undeniably loyal to the republic. They knew what it would be like if the Sith came to power and it splintered. Chaos. The Acolyte low key made it to where the Empire come off as good guys. The clear bad guys who are Germany in WW2. Let that sink in. Glad it was cancelled.
Moral relativism can be good in stories, but this show didn't put any effort whatsoever in developing it. Instead of a complicated morality, everyone acted like self-centered children, reacting almost randomly with no sense of accountability or causality. They just did whatever was necessary to get to the next scene.
@@jamesneese7663I didn't get the feeling that the show was painting the white guy Sith as being bad. Misunderstood, yes. Murderer, yes. But not "Bad Guy vibes."
i don't think they were dogmatic cultists. They were compassionate mystics, but tasked with the hard job of sorting out political arguements galaxy-wide.
@@Mgauge I strongly disagree with moral relativism. Maybe you're using the wrong word because it's not the same as complex morality. It means no morality because the claim is that truth is subjective. That assumption leads to immature behavior because people like that don't feel accountable for their actions. I do agree with you that they just acted to get to the next scene, though.
This is what happens when Society abandons Objective Morality. Star Wars has always had a clear vision of what is right and wrong. I forgot who said it but I believe it was George Lucas who said “There are no Gray Jedi” meaning there is Light and Dark. The Sith and Dark Jedi are not to be praised they’re to be Pitted because their choices lead them and inevitably the entire galaxy into chaos and destruction and they view that as “power” and success
As a Christian, Star Wars has always had themes that I can apply in my faith and that is what I always admired about the films when it came to themes of morality, altruism and selflessness. Now everything in Star Wars seem so selfish
This video is how mainstream entertainment journalism should be. You are everything that it is not, this was a deep dive into critical thinking about the morals of this show. It's funny that journalists are so lazy that they just blame the fans for being racist and sexist.
The way I see things regarding Disney Star Wars, is that it is now made by people whom think it to be kinda dumb and thus think the people liking it must be the same way. What we got from Disney is a whole lotta eye candy with little or no substance. (There are exceptions of course, but mostly thats the way it feels). It is not surprising in this sense that the moral teachings that were inherent to George's original trilogy are now completely ignored and ousted from the new modern cannon. It is not at all surprising that the fans of the original trilogy don't recognize this new cannon as something related to the Star Wars they know. It is so, not surprising that the original fans are now refraining from watching what has no relations to what they've loved for so long.
Once again, thanks for your videos Thor, and I hope you are doing better healthwise. I don't know you but I hear you pretty much everyday, so, in a strange way I feel we are kind of buddies. So, anyway, get better soon.
The scary part is that not only was she still hired but encouraged to do this... Diversity is one thing but safekeeping a brand is an executives job. A producer's as well. 30 years ago this script wouldn't have made it to a desk for consideration.
No, come one, that's not fair. A writer can enjoy exploring the darker side of things, things they would never want to do or to happen in real life, without being an immoral person themselves. While we can sometimes see resonance between a writer's morals and their writing that is not an absolute.
Thank you for this discussion. Very well stated. I especially appreciated that you called out the hedonism presented in the show. This is something that is so prevalent and accepted in much of our culture and entertainment. We need to start noticing it and rejecting it.
Moral people are more likely to make moral series than immoral people. What we got with the acolyte was a glimpse into Headland's perverse philosophies and her selfishness. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say.
"It was far easier for you as civilized men to behave like barbarians, than it was for them as barbarians to behave like civilized men." Or... "evil cannot comprehend good."
Lucas’ Chosen One, was a message to the young, that your choices affect not just you, but those and around you and perhaps the world. And with his trilogies, he showed us two similar heroes (or chosen ones) that make very different choices, for contrasting reasons and effect; In the OT, we have Luke. Who tried to do the right things for the right reasons, selflessly, and despite some failings, he saved his friends and family and the galaxy. And Lucas said that he goes on to be the greatest Jedi ever. With the PT, we have Anakin. He did the wrong things, for the wrong reasons, out of selfishness. Because he thought that he was better than everyone else and so should have it all his way. Dooming himself, his friends and family and the galaxy. And so his path mirrors that of Lucifer’s, only he gets saved in the end. It was all very much about good vs evil. But, then we had rest of the media, from the Clone Wars through most of Legends, which either avoided of convoluted that message. With this new era of Star Wars under Disney, they one upped that. Now, Lucas’ real hero (Luke) has been turned into a failure, while his false hero (Anakin) has been upgraded into some type of all powerful Force using god. So, now we have fans that idolize Anakin and don’t talk about Luke. That said. The Acolyte didn’t really say that much about morality other than to stay out of other peoples business, thinking that you know what’s best for others despite not knowing their circumstances, and that bad people will try to manipulate people often by trying to seem like your best friend and waving what you most want in front of you, saying that you can have if you are willing to just do it. It could’ve been written to better convey that. As for its presentation of the Jedi Order being wrong? Lucas showed us a Jedi Order that by the time of the prequels had strayed from their path, becoming like an inflexible government institution, doing things for political expedience, to the point where they couldn’t properly see or minister to the problems of even their brightest youth, meeting regularly with a Sith Lord and literally taking their marching orders from him, and starting an avoidable galaxy wide war because of politics. All of which eventually led to their downfall. It was his criticism of the idea of institutions, both governmental and religious. The High Republic era, the Acolyte and the ‘Tales of..’ show are trying to set that up. Just as Filoni will probably be using the “Mandoverse” (and Ahsoka) to setup the sequels where we had a weak New Republic and heroes primed to fail by mustache twirling villains (hopefully we won’t be seeing more of Gideon).
“It is about how we wish to be seen Anakin, and how that ties into the central mission of the Jedi order. We do not want to be powerful. We wish to stand tall against the dark. Our tools reflect that goal. Especially our choice in weapon. We all wield the same one with minor variations. The Lightsaber. We could make Kyber bombs or blasters, indeed it’s been tried. There are few weapons like that in the sealed archives. But anyone can fire a blaster, very few can safely and skillfully wield, a lightsaber everyone in the galaxy knows this too. We want our opponents to know that we use a weapon that requires intention, training, precision, and choice. The Lightsaber symbolizes the care with which we approach our gifts through the force and the care with which we wield them. It reminds others that while we could do more, we very purposefully do not.” -Obi-wan Kenobi
Hey Thor, How would you have Star Wars explore the different viewpoints of conflicts? In the old EU authors gave us interesting characters like Talon Karrde, Mara Jade, world of Bakura, and the Imperial Remnant that gave some interesting viewpoints on the Empire, Old and New Republic systems of government while still in the end acknowledging the evil done. It would be cool if we get those complex gray characters who struggle with the evil being done clashes with their morals.
The Acolyte has several problems: a self-centered attitude, not understanding kindness, and the obsession with power. Being self-centered is not agency. It makes you fragile because if you are the center of your world then all negativity is personal, weather it’s intentional or not. If you are not selfish, then you can brush off the insults and recognize that the others bad attitude is their problem. Being selfless to a balanced degree means that you don’t flinch and are not reactionary. Kindness is not about rewards. A genuinely kind person doesn’t expect anything in return. Modern society thinks that Nice = Selfish somehow. In a backwards twist it treats selfishness as if it were a virtue. Here is the correct motivation for being kind: peace of mind and benefiting the other person. Kindness helps both people involved. If your kindness is not reciprocated or even rejected then stop reaching out to that person, but don’t stop having good will towards others. If we could continue supporting the right motivations our lives could improve. Power is a goal in of itself, according to todays worldview. While I don’t believe that power itself corrupts, it can certainly contribute. Power reveals who you are because it makes you capable of acting out your personality. On this basis, you need a strong sense of restraint and responsibility before acquiring power and when you have it. Someone who simply wants the power to do anything they want is already corrupt and should never have access to that power.
What I don't get is how was Quimir, the guy who has displayed nothing but sociopathic selfishness, is supposedly good for OSHA? He's done nothing but take her and use her with seemingly no motivation beyond his personal amusement. He's a monster, but because he's good-looking, all that is glossed over for a disturbing idea of a love story that you only see in terrible teen girl fanfiction. It's even worse than Reylo. At least there, they pretended that Rey and Kylo somehow related to each other.
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment. This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar. What do you think?
That could be legit interesting story, but i would preferira if it is done long after LF cleans house, couse the curent writers would ruin it so to such extent that it would be shuned and forgoten till end of time
Personally, I think that while the issue of robot/droid sentience is an interesting one, the setting of Star Wars just isn't equipped to deal with it properly and robustly without creating a whole lot of problems for all the hundreds of Star Wars stories that don't focus primarily on that topic. Your frustration with Star Wars playing droids off for laughs is understandable since it seems like you're passionate about the topic, and I would probably feel the same if the original precedent was to take it seriously. However, I just don't think Star Wars is about that. R2-D2 and C-3PO were designed essentially to be comic relief characters and the latter's remarks in Episode IV about hardship being their lot in life seems to me to be a more of a joke than an actual attempt to dig into the issue. I think droids that act like they are sentient and maybe even are, are just supposed to be a part of the setting and any implications are not meant to be focused on unless it's to be goofy about it. I can understand if that rubs people the wrong way and yes, there have been several stories that try to tackle droid sentience more seriously and those can be fun to read or play but if a major entry into the Star Wars universe really went at it hard, I think the implications it would put on the rest of Star Wars would be really damaging. There are so many stories about robot sentience out there that do the topic much better than Star Wars could that I don't think Star Wars needs to or should tackle it.
When Torbin unalived himself, i was thinking, whatever happened must've been terrible. Then we see what happened to the Wiches and he had done nothing wrong. Literally setting the bar for unaliving oneself that low is dangerously stupid. How no one at Lucasfilm notcied that is beyond me.
Incredible point that a person who is closed off to the world, wont let anyone touch them, because of what they incorrectly perceive as an unforgivable mistake kills themselves like it's some sort of release. The type of people "this show was made for" are some of the most susceptible to this kind of influence. Unfortunately I imagine the suicide in ep 2 and Sol allowing himself to be killed at the end has already influenced more than one person to make a decision they shouldn't. Great job Disney!
I found it fascinating. What the writers and director thought they were portraying, and what was shown is really telling. For exaple: They show a young "male" kid getting mentally assaulted by a grown woman, but then later somehow he is the bad guy, so much so he committs suicide by drinking poison. What did he do, or think he did so terrible wrong that he agreed he needed to die ? I have no idea.
Lucas made it clear! There was good and there was evil. Acolyte and shows like it keep trying to pretend evil doesn't exist and that the heroes are just as bad as the villains. They have a guy murder everyone the female lead had known... And she instantly falls for him the moment he takes off his shirt and pants. It hadn't even been a day! The new writers know that if we go with old lore... They would the imperial flunkies the rebels would fight. So they want to justify their awful behavior by claiming it is perfectly fine for them to act like this because the 'true stars' of the show act just like them. Star Wars was made to bring back hope and show hope for a better future. Disney Star Wars shows the loss of a getter future and enjoys claiming there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
One of the arguments in favor of the Acolyte was that at the bare minimun it is a show that was "sending Star Wars in a new direction" by freeing itself from the Skywalkers and all that. But I mean, Andor, a show that's set in the era with the most content is a far more refreshing show. Very often I read that people are tired of that time period and all that, but the way I see it is no one will care if the show/movie is well done.
it's a really good comment on Torbin that I hadn't thought about. About how bad his action to "log-out" is. even worse when he didn't do anything, in his case he got mind assualted. Which led to his bad action, the equivalent would be a physical assault and Star Wars showing that the "solution" for assault is log-out. Not working through the issues or bettering yourself. No, SW literally did the victim-blaming here. and having a mate that did log-out, it's actually incredible how they've completly ignored it and just glossed it over that a victim logs-out on some random (she was that) request. and it's just ignroed as a way to "push" the plot for something to happen. But no repercussion is taken, no sadness is shown over the loss, nothing. Just like a badly written game, you just go to the next quest-marker, except even a badly written game would have the character show sadness over a loss of someone they had known for 10+ years? Im honestly now even more disgusted with the series than I was before
You know, Thor, speaking as someone who saw A New Hope in theaters when it was just “Star Wars”-a teenager at the time-it was just great escapist entertainment, a space opera, a good vs evil fairy tale into which you could read deep meanings if you wanted, but could also be enjoyed superficially for no more than its face value. I think there may be some viewers who still want that kind of entertainment. The good guys should go through trials but ultimately win. Sometimes good guys die in operas, but they die glorious meaningful deaths and give tear jerker last speeches…But in The Acolyte, seeing the bad guys stab, choke and break the necks of the good guys, and seeing the good guys’ bodies lying lifeless with open staring dead eyes, was just repulsive. If I want to see horrors like that I can watch the news, a war documentary, or a horror film per se. The Acolyte was just shock value for the sake of shocking and disturbing viewers. The story was secondary and poorly thought out because it wasn’t about the story. I’ve watched every episode of every other Star Wars series to this point, all through the years, but I wish I could un-see The Acolyte. I’m still profoundly upset about it.
The morality is that the good guys will win in the end. Who cares if it's predictable; the real world can be so fucking gross, that's why we watch these shows/movies. It's an escape and we need to know good will win, no matter how ugly it is at the moment.
@@opwave79 That literally makes no sense. it is escapism to me, and I can't be alone. Therefore, it exists and is a real experience. Regardless of your bitter and dreary outlook. I didnt create the term/expression/experience so obviously it exists. Your opinion is your opinion, which I didnt ask for.
Hey Thor, I dont really have any thoughts to add to the video here as it's summed up well. But I did have a more traditional star wars question for you; we all know that Qui-Gon Jinn is a maverick of the Order in the prequels as he is less dogmatic (as Palps would put it) and more "go with the will of the Force". And everyone loves that about him, it seems to be the main reason anyone chooses him as their favorite of the jedi. But one jedi also strikes me as a very "as the force wills it" character, who seems to let events transpire and tries to roll with what the force is doing, as much as he can given his position. Grand Master Yoda. He has many many scenes in the prequels showing him contemplating as events happen, pontificating after said events, and even sometimes seemingly willingly ignoring clear cut signs of Palpatines plan and Anakins fall. One scene that stands out is when Palpatine speaks and it cuts to Yoda with a concerned look on his face as if he knows he's being played, but feels he must let events transpire as the Force wants them to. I think there's a real argument to be made that Yoda is also a maverick in the order, just like Qui-Gon, but as he's handcuffed by his role to be the liaison between the order and the senate. What do you think about this idea that Yoda is also just like Qui-Gon and does what he can to "follow the Will of the Force"??
The fall of Jacen Solo in the Fate of the Jedi series did an excellent job of showing the allure of the Dark Side from the perspective of the Sith, BUT we the audience can see the whole while that it's a pathway to self-destructive disaster. In fact, re-reading it again now, it's a hell of a stressful read, constantly wanting to yell at Jacen to warn him of the obvious mistakes he's making.
This is similar to Rings of Power in that it went against the moral underpinning of the original author. The channel Inspiring philosophy - a Christian apologetics channel that doesn't dip into this topic - made a great video that compared Tolkien's philosophy with what RoP presented, and RoP falls short. I'd go so far as to say that this pattern of behavior with older franchises is at the heart of the current issues these franchises are having, and the issues others on both sides hone in on are distractions.
That's because everyone's missing the point. It's not about conservative versus progressive. It's literally the extraordinarily wealthy executives at the top, who are looking to bring back feudalism, versus everyone else. WAKE UP. THE CHANCELLOR IS THE SITH LORD.
This question was already beyond evident to me with The Last Jedi. I was cautious about the sequel trilogy and I am sorry to say that caution was proven right. I have never watched a minute of Disney Star Wars, other than in clips discussing the topic, as a result of that caution. The Sith are in charge of the franchise. That's been evident for nearly a decade now. I only stick around to watch the ongoing dumpster fire because the original series was that good, and I still have a stake in that story being perpetuated. So I keep opposing the Sith version, with a few minutes here and there.
You've probably heard this before, but Andor and Rogue One are exceptional. Andor season 2 will probably be epic as well. I think you're missing out, but hey, you do you. 🙏
To be fair to The Acolyte (which I personally didn't even bother watching) it IS conceivable that you could have this ostensibly perfect fairy-tale ending when Osha achieves perfect freedom only to show dark side traits like greed, jealously and selfishness overtake both her and the stranger and destroy their lives in the second season, while Osha's sister, who was raised in the dark, never knowing true, selfless love, would discover that through the Jedi, leading to a showdown between her and her sister with their initial philosophies swapped. In theory, that could make a good, moral Star Wars show. But I haven't seen anything out of Headland that would lead me to believe that this was her plan for the show. Edit: I guess I should have listened to the rest of the video before posting...
I wish you could double or triple like videos. You take the words right out of my mouth so often and say it better than I can. Hope your health improves. Live your take on all this.
I would like to point out that Jedi wouldn't try to reform a mind wiped Mae. She is responsible for killing jedi masters, so the story going forward wouldn't have any twin shenanigans. But you know they would and think how stupid that would be for a stoyline.
Hey Thor, since I know most of these comments will just be the same copy and pasted generic insult thrown at Star Wars and the The Acolyte which were posted with out watching the video first, I just wanted to say thank you. While I do not consider myself to be a "sewage-s1de-al" person, sometimes it does feel like it's nothing but down hill from here. Thank you for talking about this topic briefly at the end, and addressing the major problem that this has become.
Andor understood these themes and was able to navigate the complexities of the “morally gray” aspects of humanity while still maintaining basic universal ideals.
So according to this show, we are wrong for watching "the mandalorian" and wanting Grogu to be kept out of the hands of Moff Gideon. We are wrong for wanting Boba Fett to kick the pike syndicate off of Tatooine. That the destruction of entire planets and even solar systems is accessible because a few people want it. Nice to know.
As painful as the Sequel Trilogy does with the abusive relationship with Rey and Kylo, at least it was told about the dark side that one day would hurt you. Do not get it twisted, it doesn't make the Sequels look better, just by a small margin.
Spot on! We can only hope that the failure of the show to attract an audience and its subsequent cancellation means Star Wars has hit bottom and there is a slight chance matters will improve going forward. Sadly, it could also simply mark the point that Star Wars will never recover from.
I always wondered why my sister would never let her daughter watch Disney shows as a kid unsupervised. My niece is 19 now, this has been going on far longer than a lot of people realize.
George’s original message of sending kids into the world with purpose does hit me harder than it ever has. Even though I’m 18, I still feel disconnected from the world at large and I want to find a purpose in it. Having had an autism diagnosis a year and a half ago cleared so much up, but it gave me more questions in return. About… life, simply. After graduating high school I just don’t really know what to do with it. I’ve been stuck. But I am clearing things up, bit by bit. I have amassed very useful knowledge, though. I know how to communicate with my loved ones better and have started unmasking more. Realising I’ve been masking (hiding autism for the sake of fitting in) all my life has brought up huge existential questions about my authenticity. I now know I should pursue my true interests, instead of some dilated, socially preferred versions of them. I have figured out university isn’t it. What does suit me, I do not yet know. I know what suits me. I know what doesn’t. I know my strengths and weaknesses. I just need to find an outlet for the best of myself, in a way that benefits the world too. Difficult times.
Definitely relatable dilemmas (I also am working through unmasking), though I have found that fixating on the fear of all my life ahead of me is really a test of patience with the unknown, and that is something you can't ever build quickly in your mind. Purpose is discovered gradually, and fiction does help by showing familiar tropes of destiny, justice, or cause and effect, but like all analogies for the human experience, they only work up to a point. I've also come to realise that we as social beings will only ever understand our purposes the more we try to be active in society and see purpose as connected to sympathising with other people's experiences, learning and creating memories or legacies. They won't even necessarily be achievements we notice as important/meaningful/edifying, or it might take ages for us to get it, but the easiest bet is, therefore, to look for its effects in the people or society around us.
@@gabija_v2012 In the recent rut I’ve been in (autistic burnout), I have distanced myself from society a lot. Part of what I’m looking for now is not just a study that suits me, but also trying to find communities. I’ve found an AuDHD group in my city recently and visited with a friend. It was quite fun.
The way they wrote Torbin's story was very disturbing. Not only he got psychologicaly abused by the witch but his Master and the other Jedis didn't care about his mental state and it never came up later. I guess since it happened to a boy, the showrunner didn't give a crap.
Hey Thor, a couple days ago, I looked on social media and saw that people who upset over the Acolyte being canceled are inexplicably are attacking the Ahsoka series. I honestly don’t get it because, while I personally enjoyed the Ahsoka series, I am willing to admit they are not perfect. But I don’t think Ahsoka is to blame for the Acolyte being canceled. I am curious to know your thoughts on this.
Fanboys will attack anything that represents a threat to that thing they like. It's most likely nothing more than impotent nerd-rage. Acolyte was cancelled and it's clearly because other Star Wars shows stole the spotlight, that's what I'd think it is.
@@mortemtyrannus8813that honestly makes sense considering there is a petition to renew The Acolyte. Personally, while I wasn't the biggest fan of The Acolyte and understand why people are upset that the show ended on a cliffhanger, I think people need to understand that it's not the fault of shows like Ahsoka or Andor that The Acolyte wasn't renewed. It wasn't renewed because a lot of people didn't watch it. That's it, pure and simple.
Darth Bane is rolling in his tomb right now. That kind of relationship goes against what the Dark side is supposed to be. One not desires to be with someone else, but to have power and power only, above anything else. Quimir looked like a mild version of the Joker looking for his Harley Quinn.
What I really disliked about Torbin's self deletion is the show practically depicts it as right or justified. What kind of message is to send to young people that may be struggling with guilt or depression?
Hey Thor, 5:35 - Breaking Bad vs The Acolyte, how to (and how not) write a path from good to evil from the villain's perspective. Walter White did not achieve his dreams by "falling to the dark side." In fact, because he went down the dark path, he destroyed his life, the lives of everyone he loved, and many lives of strangers. He's certainly not holding hands with Schuyler (or, to remain analogous, even a new bad-guy romantic partner) staring into the sunset when the series concludes. Moreover, both the writers and the audience know he is not a good guy who is just choosing a different path of anti-authority. He allowed himself to become evil, to become the enemy of good.
I would say that the lesson that "anyone who tries to help you is really not trying to help you" coming from the former personal assistant of Harvey Weinstein is actually an important lesson. But there is also a template for the hero's journey, the kind of stories that have been used to inspire people throughout the ages. The reason why stories survive the ages is because they roughly follow this template; those that don't end up lost over time. This is why we remember classics like Star Wars even today, and why no one talks about some shows less than a year after they get released.
OG Star Wars: Good and evil exist. Choose good and be wary of evil. Disney Star Wars: Murder and corruption are okay if it’s what makes you feel more like yourself.
Hey Thor, do you think like I do that this trend of destroying IPs has to come to an end? The Acolyte is the perfect example of an IP being destroyed, with LOTR being the next victim with the second season of rings of power. I'd love to hear your opinion on this, also, I'm going through some health issues myself right now so wishing you a speedy recovery
Call me old-fashioned but I prefer my stories to have clear heroes and villains, Not this deconstruction half-ass storytelling about why evil is good and heroes are the bad guys.
It can be done. Andor does this brilliantly. While also establishing, in-story, the clear dynamic of good guys and bad guys. All it took was one Tie Fighter flying over 2 characters at close range to establish the oppression and lethal dominance of the Empire... among other examples. When moral relativism is done right, it's usually thought-provoking magical badassery. 🙏
Very good video 👍 as for L.H. the show was about her twisted morality or her lack of any morality. Just me me me me... The show is a reflection of her beliefs and it is sad to see. She knows where the skeletons are burried and that is the only reason she got to make her show. Just to remind you - she worked for Miramax and H.W. when Disney owned Miramax. She has huge knowledge and for her silence she was rewarded
Actually I think the problem started with a the marketing campaign for one of the video games in the late 90s/early 00s where you could choose play as either a dark side or light side character. As a video game premise, it's brilliant. The problem is that then became the main theme of all Star Wars marketing, dark and light being presented as equal choices with benefits to each, instead being clear that one is a wrong/evil choice.
Headland wants to tell a story of the struggles and oppression she's faced in life, but if you see her interviews it doesn't seem like she's actually had any. She seems to think that the mere fact that she's a gay woman means that she must have been oppressed even though she's had things quite easy, and doesn't realize it. She's even said that she felt that people wanted her to fail because she's queer, even though she's had teams of people rooting her on.
I mean, certainly, there are people who are just mad that she's a woman married to another woman. And HAS she faced struggles? Yes, probably... but the struggles of a rich kid trying to be a big fish in the big pond.
I appreciated this video because of the commentary related to what impressionable children (and adults) may have taken away from this series by accident. Such as the discourse on suicide and hopelessness. This was quite a reflective video.
As I watched The Acolyte I couldn't believe that this was the message behind the Series. It is sad, that we are at a point in which star wars lost its core message
Beautifully said, Thor. Valuing your own "truth" over everything else is such a destructive force. This show is horrific in its story telling and message
I agree with your messaging and interpretation of Star Wars as a beacon of hope and morality. Jedi always were inspiring me. Also, with age, I grow more and more disillusion and disappointed in a world we are lining. In people around particularly. More and more I tell myself, that I need to think more about myself, that for the sake of my own sanity it is simpler and better to label people and be judgemental. Effectively, I more and more thinking about that being a Sith is actually a way here.
Regarding the question about the trigger warning, as the mother of a 14 yr old girl who ‘unalived’ herself, the answer is no. It should be said, loudly and clearly and then it could be talked about loudly and clearly. Using phrases like unalived is meaningless, we all know what these switch out words mean including kids, who get the wrong idea, they think we can’t talk about it because we can’t even say it’s name and it gains more power. You think I don’t get triggered by the word? It took my baby. I would rather be triggered everyday than continuing this centuries old stigma, that helps keep people in the dark about it and keeps them from reaching out. I hate it.
Interesting trivia, most of the films coming out before the first Star Wars film came out were films that had themes of moral ambiguity and questioning what's right and wrong. Disney has been trying to turn Star Wars into something it was standing against.
Postmodernism and the message of deconstruction it sends is a hell of a drug. The entire thing the Acolyte does is try to deconstruct the Jedi but fails in doing so when they just reinforce that the Jedi are a force for good in the galaxy and that the Dark Side is this seductive corrupting force that promises you your dream and the power to achieve them but you have to go to some really dark places and do some inhumane things to get what you want. "Peace is a lie, there is only passion, Through passion I gain strength, Through strength, I gain power, Through power, I gain victory, Through victory, my chains are broken, The Force shall set me Free." -The Sith Code The fact that Headland believes this shows how corrupt and selfish her thinking is in that power will set her free and heal her of the injustices she believes were committed against her. I've been down that road. As Yoda said, "Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering." There is no joy to be found at the end of that dark road. Only the pain of self-inflicted torture. No I'm not okay and frankly having grown up with 80s and early 90s media is probably the only thing that reminds me of one important factor that the later 90s and 00's have forgotten. Happy Endings have their place too.
>she relates more to the dark side
>used to be Harvey Weinstein's personal assistant at Miramax
>gee what a coincidence
She was one of the first to speak out against him. Was very brave in fact.
@@samuel3253 Yeah to save herself from the backlash, She knew and did nothing until it got to a boiling point.
None of that has to do with Star Wars. Trump was best buddies with Epstein but there are people ready to vote him into the white house. Why is the morality of the certain people so realative.
...she’d worked at Miramax for a couple of years, a position opened to be Weinstein’s assistant. She wanted to be a producer, so she interviewed for the job. Finally, one of Weinstein’s former assistants took her out to lunch. “Do not take this job,” the former assistant said. “You will see things you will never be able to unsee, and you will do things you will never forgive yourself for.”
This was not Leslye Headland, she did take the job.
@@samuel3253 She was as brave as any of the mafiosos that turned state's evidence to avoid harsh penalties back in the 20th Century.
What happened? We got people like Harvey Weinstein's assistant telling us what is good and evil. That's the long and short of it.
Couldn't have said it any better.
She’s not even doing that, she’s telling us what is evil is good and what is good is evil.
Bingo
They just want to be perceived as morally correct, people like headlamp have no actual morality and will just say what they think people want to hear. That is how someone who knowingly served young actresses to a predator is defended by feminists.
They just want to be perceived as morally correct, people like headlamp have no actual morality and will just say what they think people want to hear. That is how someone who knowingly served young actresses to someone like weinstein is defended by feminists.
I find it disturbing that Disney has been sending out messages to young girls that it's ok to romanticize evil just as long as that person is "Hot".
Like Reylo before it, crimes against you and humanity as a whole don't matter so long as the guy makes the heroine hot and bothered, apparently. No, she bares no responsibility for enabling further atrocities because she lets him go instead of stopping him for the sake of her misguided crush, either.
Remember how many women said the Boston marathon bomber should be let go because “he was hot”? Crazy world.
Saw A video recently from Psychologist Jordan Peterson saying how the romantic interests in most Mills and Boone type books are vampires werewolves, billionaires, surgeons, pirates.
Women seemed to be programmed to desire taming beasts.
@@samuel3253 The sad part is that they don't even want the beast tamed. They get hot about the actions of taming the beast but once it's domesticated, it's not fun or exciting anymore.
So they move on to the next wild animal.
More women avoiding accountability
What baffles me is that the Acolyte paints the Jedi as policing the Force, when in all truth they don’t. The witches of Dathomir operated with no Jedi intervention, and Jedi were allowed to leave the Order and were even given means to establish themselves in their new life outside of the Order.
It was the Empire who policed the Force - they sent literal inquisitors to hunt down Jedi and Force-sensitive people. This message of freedom to experience the Force in your own way fits far better in the Imperial era than the late High Republic era.
Yep. After all, it was Ole Palps that felt threatened by the Dathomir Witches and made the order to take them out.
The whole "Jedi steal toddlers or children away from their parents" is EXTRA aggravating for me.
Not to mention certain species like the Miraluka had their own species centric Force Orders that didn't teach the same as the Jedi.
While the Jedi may have been one of the Big Two (the other being Sith) there were hundreds of smaller orders that operated in the same vein as the Coven. Like the Coven however, the Jedi only interfered if they became a threat because the teachings would give rise to another Dark Side threat that destroyed the Republic centuries before.
This. Even in the show, they weren't going to take the girls without permission, only requested testing them. They were outside jurisdiction. The Jedi counsel told them to leave the group alone. It's teenage Torbin being hotheaded that takes them back to the cult...but then the cult attacks them, making it a self-defense issue.
Prequels: story about how fascism can insidiously subvert democracy from within, gradually stripping away all the ideals and establish its own tyranny. Fasism power is not strength it's deception. Dark Side and fascism is striclty connected both here and in the OT.
Acolyte: "What is those fascist were unjustly persecuted and misunderstood?"
That is totally right.
It continues to baffle me how many people in a wide variety of ways can't just open their eyes and see what is in front of them. Or at least look into what they are trying to counter argue before they make a dumb claim.
I'm sorta glad to see most people know how to fact check. Not for long though
It's crazy that somebody can literally say that they relate more to the Dark Side and yet we're the ones who are supposedly toxic.
MAD RESPECT for the way Thor talked about the "Hey, Thor Super Thanks." It didn't even occur to me that it could set a precedent.
See everyone, he's even Jedi-like in real life. 🤔😁🙏
He's very open about the fact the ideals of the Jedi influenced how he grew up and how he views life. Makes sense. Tons of respect for him.
Star Wars is being written by people who are the villains of real life.
Which is why people should start supporting independent creators. Not that they *will*, but they *should*.
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"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again."
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-- Diamond Dragons (series)
Exactly
@@EverestBlooms-1268 best analogy I've seen is that it's like those bullies in high school who mocked you for liking it... are now the ones writing it.
@@marhawkman303 the showrunner Lesley Headland is an actual villian I swear. She worked with Harvey Weinstein and was his personal assistant. Acolyte was the nail on the coffin for me and Star Wars. I won’t be consuming any Star Wars content until they get rid of her and everyone else who’s destroying Star Wars and its legacy.
@@EverestBlooms-1268 agreed, she once said in an interview the thing that defined her career, was... being Weinstein's assistant. Leslye said that herself!!!!!
Disney: "The good thing about Star wars is there is no good or bad it's all grey area.
Me (an intellectual): nah bro, you see the evil old man cackling to himself about power in the pitch black robes, surrounded by faceless soldiers in a massive dooms day space station called "The death star"... That guy is straight up evil. If you think there's some sort of redemption arc he can go or some tragic back story to justify this you are the evil pretending like evil doesn't exist.
There was a backstory, and the backstory was entertaining, but only because it showed that he was a piece of shit the whole time.
Reeks of “the empire did nothing wrong”
If they were allowed to keep going more seasons I totally would have been expecting the eventual young hottie Palpatine redemption arc.
While many individuals can have redemption, some can't. There's No redemption for Palpatine. He's space Hitler. I wouldn't put it pass them to make him misunderstood.
@@kaleiohulee6693The hilarious thing is that basically every person who’s ever written Palpatine knows he was always a bad egg. Even as a child he was a complete sociopath, bro killed his whole family just to gain favor with Plagueis! Of course Disney runs things now so they’ll probably still try to make him sexy and sympathetic 😂
It is disturbing how some companies in the entertainment industry are trying to glorify evil these days. Then we have that irritating topic of making everything grey. It really isn’t a good message for future generations. It feels like some of these companies are trying to avoid decent messages that we can use in life.
But everyone keeps coming back for more. The wealthy stay wealthy, and the poor just keep complaining. Instead, they should be supporting independent artists. But they never will. It is what it is.
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"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again."
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
-- Diamond Dragons (series)
because they are runned by people who are evil themselfs.
When you hire for director person that was assistent of pedophile rapist, what's there to expect ? Not morality for sure.
That is correct.
Most people preaching grey are either just parroting an interesting idea without really knowing how that would play out irl, have a specific definition like picking the better of two evils, or they're knowingly blurring right and wrong so they themselves don't look so bad.
My favorite Star Wars story doesn't speak to me despite having a guy protagonist or despite having good and bad people with little in between. Their pain and experiences are what I related to and they helped me out of depression, not affirming me by reminding me of what I'm mad about. I feel bliss when someone I relate to or admire can find closure or avoid devolving, because I like to think I can be better than what I was/am.
Star Wars, similar to Lord of the Rings, is about humanities relationship with power, good people helping each other and taking responsibility, and temptation. It isn't about the Christian "allegory" or "patriarchy", it is about progress. Individual, self imposed progress. And that is why Survivor was so damn depressing, though I hope and doubt Cal gets the Return of the Jedi ending rather than the Rogue One forgotten but they did something end.
I miss being able to enjoy my escapism.😢
There is no escape for you, Kommrade.
This is agitprop theater and you will enjoy nothing.
I recommend checking out more foreign media, though the rot is starting to appear there as well, depending on where you are looking.
Same
Me too, especially in today's world.
This is why Rogue One and Andor are so good and were so well-received. They show how self-sacrifice for a bright future for EVERYONE is important and worth doing.
All the while showing moral ambiguity in characters like Saw Gurera and Luthen.
Yet it did nothing to Star Wars Universe at large, it just shows how inferior Kathleen Kennedy canon can be with the whole "all media in one" sort of deal.
How do you write a show about the bad guys that is about self sacrifice for a bright future without it not being the bad guy show.... god.... there is more in star wars that hope for a bright future... they make a Boba Fet show, people complain he isn't Boba for working towards a brighter future... because he is the bad guy. Now they make a dark side centric show and you want self sacrifice as a theme?
@mazkeraid4039 hi 😊 what do you mean by saying "it [Andor] did nothing to the SW universe at large"?
@@thedude925 I think it's that the Acolyte tried to portray something, most think of as bad, as instead being good. Thereby inverting the broadly accepted morality in SW.
In Rogue One, Jin is the hero who ultimately sacrifices to do the right thing; as does Andor albeit they both have some moral ambiguity.
In Bobba Fett, the issue is that he's a bad guy who was being altruistic for no apparent reason. If he was just a bad guy, that might've been fine (as long as it wasn't spun as he's actually the good guy, which is what they seem to be trying to do with Qimir, Osha, and Mae).
I was 8 back in 1977 and Star Wars DID provide that “Hope” that I could do things in my future. Believe in myself and surround myself with good people. I cant imagine coming up today and looking at something like the acolyte for inspiration. What a damn shame.
Try something from an independent creator.
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again."
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
-- Diamond Dragons (series)
That is really awesome to hear/read.
My favorite Star Wars story doesn't speak to me despite having a guy protagonist or despite having good and bad people with little in between. I feel bliss when someone I admire or have the same pain as can find closure or avoid corruption, because I need to think I can be better than what I was/am. Their pain and experiences are what I related to and they helped me out of depression, not affirming my anger.
Star Wars, similar to Lord of the Rings, is about humanities relationship with power, good people helping each other and taking responsibility, and temptation. It isn't about the Christian "allegory" or "patriarchy", it is about progress. Individual, self imposed progress. And that is why Survivor was so damn depressing, though I hope and doubt Cal gets the Return of the Jedi ending rather than the Rogue One forgotten but they did something end.
"The light and dark sides aren’t independent cosmic things, but rather different paths to channeling the Force. To adhere to the light means you let the Force “flow through you.” It asks for tranquility. By denying your ego, you learn to properly listen to the natural rhythm of the Force and the universe, making yourself a conduit for its power. The dark side, by contrast, is fueled through intense emotions. By looking inward and channeling your ego-through pain, hate, fear, etc.-you manipulate your connection to the Force, and bend it to your will.
Notice that the places where heroes learn to master the light side are open and teeming with life (Dagobah and Ahch-To), and they do so through solemn meditation. Yoda instructs Luke to listen and comprehend the things around him, like the rocks and the woods and the animals. Luke teaches Rey to feel the motion, life, light, and balance of things around her. For both of them, the crux is understanding that they live in an interconnected universe. The light side isn’t about being virtuous so much as it’s about being wise. It’s about being in tune with the natural flow of the world. Being a good person is a byproduct of gaining that perspective.
Notice then that the places that are inhabited by the dark side are cold, desolate, and yes, dark places. Our heroes confront the dark side completely alone, because to walk the dark path is to be alone. You access the light side by letting go of the self, but you access the dark side by shutting out everything but the self. It’s not about pain or hate. Those are just sensations that let you focus on yourself. It’s ultimately about ego.
We see this in Luke’s vision on Dagobah, where he sees himself in Darth Vader. And we see it again in Rey’s vision on Ahch-To, where the emptiness of the cave becomes filled with only her. The true appeal of the dark side isn’t mere power. It offers control in a chaotic universe. It tells you not only that you matter, but that you are all that matters. You are powerful, and are the ultimate master of your destiny. Once you accept that, power quickly becomes an end unto itself.
Vader is a good example. In the OT, the Darth Vader comics, and in Rebels, Vader is regularly presented as cold, unrelenting, and cruel. For all the warnings about emotions leading to the dark side, Vader seems strangely in control of his. But that makes sense when you understand the dark side as being about ego, not emotion. If your ultimate goal is power, then your enemy will quickly become life itself, and this is exactly how Darth Vader behaves in Rebels and in the comics. He is contemptuous of everything in his path. He doesn’t want to die, but he doesn’t care much about living either. His sole purpose is to be strong.
If you accept that you are all that matters, you will not love the things that made you. You will resent them, even hate them. And so part of embracing the dark side is destroying your old identity. This is particularly well-illustrated by the tradition of Sith names (Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, etc.). Vader has detached himself from everything that defined Anakin Skywalker so that he could become Darth Vader. The man we see is the way he is because all that’s left is contempt and anger. He doesn’t have grand designs for the Empire, or a sense of the common good, or adhere to any real philosophy. He doesn’t even seem to take joy in killing. It’s simply become his nature. It’s what he does.
Anakin was a person. Darth Vader is power. In razing the Jedi Temple, attacking Padme, and finally slaying Obi-Wan, Vader ritualistically killed the parts of him that made him Anakin Skywalker. In Darth Vader #24, we see in his mind’s eye that this is how he views himself. He’s not Anakin. In fact, he hates Anakin. Anakin had history. He had friends, family, teachers, a mother, etc. Darth Vader has nothing. He comes from nowhere and he has no connections. He is pure, and he sees the entire universe as beneath him.
That is, until he meets his son."
At 1st, I was like "is this gonna be a smart alec comment?" But then I started reading and couldn't stop. This sounds like many of the conversations I had with my friends growing up.
Great stuff man.
The handle is dope too 🙏
That is a really good way of looking at it.
Also, this ego encourages them to think everything is either a slight against them or in favor of them. Superiority/victim complexes always come back to "they are wrong", "they are against me", "I am right", etcetera, and are precursors or the core of narcissism. To them, a contradicting desire can only be a threat to their lifestyle, desire, or actions. They lash out at and betray friends and lovers bcoz there is no such thing as a friend that thinks independently of his ego. Anakin's/ Bode's paranoia is a reflection of this ever growing ego that he is competition to everyone (in reality he sees everyone as competition).
The weird thing about what happened to Torbin is that he made it to Master without anyone in the temple seeing the massive guilt he was carrying within himself. And what about his master, Inara? Surely she knew what he was feeling, but never did anything about it.
Don't ask questions just consoom product! 😡
The morality of Star Wars has inspired me and reflected my moral values over the years. Now, two romanticized Sith staring at the sunset after killing people in a selfish act of freedom inspires Headland, but it doesn't inspire me.
When you look at the ending of Natural Born Killers and think "That's so romantic"... seek help, Headland.
It’s might look romantic, but it’s the Dark Side - not a “happily ever after”. The way Qimir and Osha are thinking leads them to destruction.
Cainanite moment
People are making Star Wars that think Anakin blew up the Death Star.
It’s the natural consequence of this “there are no facts or reality, only opinion” world we’re in.
Sorry to hear about your health problems, I hope you and Naboo are alright!
Hi Thor! Hope you’re doing well! Keep up the great work ❤
Its not just Star Wars. Hollywood has been twisting what is good and what is evil for years.
Hollywood *executives* - the ones who do no real work and yet make bank when the movies they greenlight cross a billion dollars, even if that's because each ticket is $25 a pop. Only gotta sell 40 million tickets that way.
There's something sinister going on, and ironically, it's coming from the side that says it's right.
I say that's a good thing
@@michaelknox3715in what twisted world is that a good thing?
Thank you for taking my question and for your excellent response. I'm also gratified that my question went well with the first one.
Disney Star Wars seems to have this rather unhealthy obsession with romanticising women entering into a potentially abusive relationship with an evil male character with the implication that they can change a murderous psychopath. First Rey with Kylo. Now Osha with Qimir. It seems a really disturbing thing to do with a franchise is overtly trying to target a larger female audience.
The Chancellor is the Sith Lord.
The irony is that, that is EXACLTY what a female audience wants. "He's a threat to everyone but me because I'm special to him."
The problem is the Star Wars setting isn't conductive to a modern day setting so women have difficulty placing themselves in those roles. It's why hallmark movies are always Modern Day New York or San Fran.
@@graveyardshift6691 It's not what the female audience wants by their nature - it's what society has told them they should want.
That's a constant on every single piece of Disney media. It is in their rules, all major relationships must be toxic, that's why Mara Jade got the boot from the Disney canon
That’s why Disney put the axe to Rey and Finn or Andor and Jyn it was too positive.
Exactly right. Instead of showing how selfish the Sith and Dark Side are, how ultimately self destructive that entire philosophy is, it made it glamorous. It made them oppressed not because they deserve to be suppressed as selfish and evil but because the Jedi and Light Side are oppressors for no good reason.
Thank you, Thor.
The world needs you and everyone who heard you today.
Agree thor always inspires me
I saw a review for Outlaws. And it referred to seeing the SW world through the eyes of a scoundrel refreshing as opposed to through the eyes of a, quote, “Pompous Jedi.”
I was like wtf happened to Star Wars? Since when are the Jedi the bad guys? It’s fucking unreal how this is where we are…
It is refreshing. I'd like a counterpart to jedi fallen order where I'm an inquisitor. And not one on a redemption arc. No. I want to be the bad guy. Or a kotor style where I get to choose to be evil when I don't feel like being a goody two shoes jedi every single time in every single situation.
I can’t stand moral relativism and it’s clear headland and the Acolyte fans didn’t get the prequels with how they depicted the Jedi. They were dogmatic cultists but they were undeniably loyal to the republic. They knew what it would be like if the Sith came to power and it splintered. Chaos. The Acolyte low key made it to where the Empire come off as good guys. The clear bad guys who are Germany in WW2. Let that sink in. Glad it was cancelled.
Moral relativism can be good in stories, but this show didn't put any effort whatsoever in developing it. Instead of a complicated morality, everyone acted like self-centered children, reacting almost randomly with no sense of accountability or causality. They just did whatever was necessary to get to the next scene.
The issue is white guy sith bad. Les coven and Asian guy and magical blk girl sith...all just misunderstood good sith. There's the difference.
@@jamesneese7663I didn't get the feeling that the show was painting the white guy Sith as being bad. Misunderstood, yes. Murderer, yes. But not "Bad Guy vibes."
i don't think they were dogmatic cultists. They were compassionate mystics, but tasked with the hard job of sorting out political arguements galaxy-wide.
@@Mgauge I strongly disagree with moral relativism. Maybe you're using the wrong word because it's not the same as complex morality. It means no morality because the claim is that truth is subjective. That assumption leads to immature behavior because people like that don't feel accountable for their actions. I do agree with you that they just acted to get to the next scene, though.
This is what happens when Society abandons Objective Morality. Star Wars has always had a clear vision of what is right and wrong. I forgot who said it but I believe it was George Lucas who said “There are no Gray Jedi” meaning there is Light and Dark. The Sith and Dark Jedi are not to be praised they’re to be Pitted because their choices lead them and inevitably the entire galaxy into chaos and destruction and they view that as “power” and success
The culture is obsessed with inverting everything beyond reason so unfortunately even goodness itself is on the chopping block for these psychos.
As a Christian, Star Wars has always had themes that I can apply in my faith and that is what I always admired about the films when it came to themes of morality, altruism and selflessness. Now everything in Star Wars seem so selfish
This video is how mainstream entertainment journalism should be. You are everything that it is not, this was a deep dive into critical thinking about the morals of this show. It's funny that journalists are so lazy that they just blame the fans for being racist and sexist.
I 2nd this motion 🙏
The people running Star Wars now basically don’t understand Star Wars
The way I see things regarding Disney Star Wars, is that it is now made by people whom think it to be kinda dumb and thus think the people liking it must be the same way. What we got from Disney is a whole lotta eye candy with little or no substance. (There are exceptions of course, but mostly thats the way it feels). It is not surprising in this sense that the moral teachings that were inherent to George's original trilogy are now completely ignored and ousted from the new modern cannon. It is not at all surprising that the fans of the original trilogy don't recognize this new cannon as something related to the Star Wars they know. It is so, not surprising that the original fans are now refraining from watching what has no relations to what they've loved for so long.
I'm digging the handle man
Once again, thanks for your videos Thor, and I hope you are doing better healthwise. I don't know you but I hear you pretty much everyday, so, in a strange way I feel we are kind of buddies. So, anyway, get better soon.
The morality of the writers usually reflects on what they write. It tells so much about the writer's morality.
The scary part is that not only was she still hired but encouraged to do this... Diversity is one thing but safekeeping a brand is an executives job. A producer's as well. 30 years ago this script wouldn't have made it to a desk for consideration.
No, come one, that's not fair. A writer can enjoy exploring the darker side of things, things they would never want to do or to happen in real life, without being an immoral person themselves. While we can sometimes see resonance between a writer's morals and their writing that is not an absolute.
Thank you for this discussion. Very well stated. I especially appreciated that you called out the hedonism presented in the show. This is something that is so prevalent and accepted in much of our culture and entertainment. We need to start noticing it and rejecting it.
Moral people are more likely to make moral series than immoral people. What we got with the acolyte was a glimpse into Headland's perverse philosophies and her selfishness. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say.
"It was far easier for you as civilized men to behave like barbarians, than it was for them as barbarians to behave like civilized men."
Or... "evil cannot comprehend good."
Lucas’ Chosen One, was a message to the young, that your choices affect not just you, but those and around you and perhaps the world. And with his trilogies, he showed us two similar heroes (or chosen ones) that make very different choices, for contrasting reasons and effect;
In the OT, we have Luke. Who tried to do the right things for the right reasons, selflessly, and despite some failings, he saved his friends and family and the galaxy. And Lucas said that he goes on to be the greatest Jedi ever.
With the PT, we have Anakin. He did the wrong things, for the wrong reasons, out of selfishness. Because he thought that he was better than everyone else and so should have it all his way. Dooming himself, his friends and family and the galaxy. And so his path mirrors that of Lucifer’s, only he gets saved in the end.
It was all very much about good vs evil. But, then we had rest of the media, from the Clone Wars through most of Legends, which either avoided of convoluted that message. With this new era of Star Wars under Disney, they one upped that.
Now, Lucas’ real hero (Luke) has been turned into a failure, while his false hero (Anakin) has been upgraded into some type of all powerful Force using god. So, now we have fans that idolize Anakin and don’t talk about Luke.
That said.
The Acolyte didn’t really say that much about morality other than to stay out of other peoples business, thinking that you know what’s best for others despite not knowing their circumstances, and that bad people will try to manipulate people often by trying to seem like your best friend and waving what you most want in front of you, saying that you can have if you are willing to just do it. It could’ve been written to better convey that.
As for its presentation of the Jedi Order being wrong?
Lucas showed us a Jedi Order that by the time of the prequels had strayed from their path, becoming like an inflexible government institution, doing things for political expedience, to the point where they couldn’t properly see or minister to the problems of even their brightest youth, meeting regularly with a Sith Lord and literally taking their marching orders from him, and starting an avoidable galaxy wide war because of politics. All of which eventually led to their downfall.
It was his criticism of the idea of institutions, both governmental and religious. The High Republic era, the Acolyte and the ‘Tales of..’ show are trying to set that up. Just as Filoni will probably be using the “Mandoverse” (and Ahsoka) to setup the sequels where we had a weak New Republic and heroes primed to fail by mustache twirling villains (hopefully we won’t be seeing more of Gideon).
“It is about how we wish to be seen Anakin, and how that ties into the central mission of the Jedi order. We do not want to be powerful. We wish to stand tall against the dark. Our tools reflect that goal. Especially our choice in weapon. We all wield the same one with minor variations. The Lightsaber. We could make Kyber bombs or blasters, indeed it’s been tried. There are few weapons like that in the sealed archives. But anyone can fire a blaster, very few can safely and skillfully wield, a lightsaber everyone in the galaxy knows this too. We want our opponents to know that we use a weapon that requires intention, training, precision, and choice. The Lightsaber symbolizes the care with which we approach our gifts through the force and the care with which we wield them. It reminds others that while we could do more, we very purposefully do not.”
-Obi-wan Kenobi
Hey Thor,
How would you have Star Wars explore the different viewpoints of conflicts? In the old EU authors gave us interesting characters like Talon Karrde, Mara Jade, world of Bakura, and the Imperial Remnant that gave some interesting viewpoints on the Empire, Old and New Republic systems of government while still in the end acknowledging the evil done. It would be cool if we get those complex gray characters who struggle with the evil being done clashes with their morals.
The Acolyte has several problems: a self-centered attitude, not understanding kindness, and the obsession with power.
Being self-centered is not agency. It makes you fragile because if you are the center of your world then all negativity is personal, weather it’s intentional or not. If you are not selfish, then you can brush off the insults and recognize that the others bad attitude is their problem. Being selfless to a balanced degree means that you don’t flinch and are not reactionary.
Kindness is not about rewards. A genuinely kind person doesn’t expect anything in return. Modern society thinks that Nice = Selfish somehow. In a backwards twist it treats selfishness as if it were a virtue. Here is the correct motivation for being kind: peace of mind and benefiting the other person. Kindness helps both people involved. If your kindness is not reciprocated or even rejected then stop reaching out to that person, but don’t stop having good will towards others. If we could continue supporting the right motivations our lives could improve.
Power is a goal in of itself, according to todays worldview. While I don’t believe that power itself corrupts, it can certainly contribute. Power reveals who you are because it makes you capable of acting out your personality. On this basis, you need a strong sense of restraint and responsibility before acquiring power and when you have it. Someone who simply wants the power to do anything they want is already corrupt and should never have access to that power.
What I don't get is how was Quimir, the guy who has displayed nothing but sociopathic selfishness, is supposedly good for OSHA? He's done nothing but take her and use her with seemingly no motivation beyond his personal amusement. He's a monster, but because he's good-looking, all that is glossed over for a disturbing idea of a love story that you only see in terrible teen girl fanfiction.
It's even worse than Reylo. At least there, they pretended that Rey and Kylo somehow related to each other.
Don't forget, Rey and Kylo had the Dyad, too. 🤣
It's so glossed over that you fully understand the dynamic. It's almost like this show was about the bad guys....
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality.
And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment.
This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar.
What do you think?
Watch Star Trek for that type of story.
That could be legit interesting story, but i would preferira if it is done long after LF cleans house, couse the curent writers would ruin it so to such extent that it would be shuned and forgoten till end of time
Personally, I think that while the issue of robot/droid sentience is an interesting one, the setting of Star Wars just isn't equipped to deal with it properly and robustly without creating a whole lot of problems for all the hundreds of Star Wars stories that don't focus primarily on that topic. Your frustration with Star Wars playing droids off for laughs is understandable since it seems like you're passionate about the topic, and I would probably feel the same if the original precedent was to take it seriously. However, I just don't think Star Wars is about that. R2-D2 and C-3PO were designed essentially to be comic relief characters and the latter's remarks in Episode IV about hardship being their lot in life seems to me to be a more of a joke than an actual attempt to dig into the issue.
I think droids that act like they are sentient and maybe even are, are just supposed to be a part of the setting and any implications are not meant to be focused on unless it's to be goofy about it. I can understand if that rubs people the wrong way and yes, there have been several stories that try to tackle droid sentience more seriously and those can be fun to read or play but if a major entry into the Star Wars universe really went at it hard, I think the implications it would put on the rest of Star Wars would be really damaging. There are so many stories about robot sentience out there that do the topic much better than Star Wars could that I don't think Star Wars needs to or should tackle it.
This might be off topic but how come jedi and clones had no issues killing unarmed droids when they were trained to never kill defenceless people
When Torbin unalived himself, i was thinking, whatever happened must've been terrible. Then we see what happened to the Wiches and he had done nothing wrong. Literally setting the bar for unaliving oneself that low is dangerously stupid. How no one at Lucasfilm notcied that is beyond me.
It is worse than nothing wrong it was victim blaming. He was mind raped.
Gone, reduced to atoms
George wasn't evil, Disney is and its absolutely undeniable apon analysis!
Incredible point that a person who is closed off to the world, wont let anyone touch them, because of what they incorrectly perceive as an unforgivable mistake kills themselves like it's some sort of release. The type of people "this show was made for" are some of the most susceptible to this kind of influence. Unfortunately I imagine the suicide in ep 2 and Sol allowing himself to be killed at the end has already influenced more than one person to make a decision they shouldn't. Great job Disney!
I found it fascinating. What the writers and director thought they were portraying, and what was shown is really telling. For exaple: They show a young "male" kid getting mentally assaulted by a grown woman, but then later somehow he is the bad guy, so much so he committs suicide by drinking poison. What did he do, or think he did so terrible wrong that he agreed he needed to die ?
I have no idea.
Lucas made it clear! There was good and there was evil.
Acolyte and shows like it keep trying to pretend evil doesn't exist and that the heroes are just as bad as the villains.
They have a guy murder everyone the female lead had known... And she instantly falls for him the moment he takes off his shirt and pants.
It hadn't even been a day!
The new writers know that if we go with old lore... They would the imperial flunkies the rebels would fight.
So they want to justify their awful behavior by claiming it is perfectly fine for them to act like this because the 'true stars' of the show act just like them.
Star Wars was made to bring back hope and show hope for a better future.
Disney Star Wars shows the loss of a getter future and enjoys claiming there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
One of the arguments in favor of the Acolyte was that at the bare minimun it is a show that was "sending Star Wars in a new direction" by freeing itself from the Skywalkers and all that. But I mean, Andor, a show that's set in the era with the most content is a far more refreshing show.
Very often I read that people are tired of that time period and all that, but the way I see it is no one will care if the show/movie is well done.
This is what happens when the world is divided in class.
The "upper" is disconnected from real life and speaking to the "lower".
They’re think they’re saints civilizing savages.
This, TBH.
You are the MVP
it's a really good comment on Torbin that I hadn't thought about. About how bad his action to "log-out" is.
even worse when he didn't do anything, in his case he got mind assualted. Which led to his bad action, the equivalent would be a physical assault and Star Wars showing that the "solution" for assault is log-out.
Not working through the issues or bettering yourself. No, SW literally did the victim-blaming here. and having a mate that did log-out, it's actually incredible how they've completly ignored it and just glossed it over that a victim logs-out on some random (she was that) request. and it's just ignroed as a way to "push" the plot for something to happen.
But no repercussion is taken, no sadness is shown over the loss, nothing. Just like a badly written game, you just go to the next quest-marker, except even a badly written game would have the character show sadness over a loss of someone they had known for 10+ years?
Im honestly now even more disgusted with the series than I was before
You know, Thor, speaking as someone who saw A New Hope in theaters when it was just “Star Wars”-a teenager at the time-it was just great escapist entertainment, a space opera, a good vs evil fairy tale into which you could read deep meanings if you wanted, but could also be enjoyed superficially for no more than its face value. I think there may be some viewers who still want that kind of entertainment. The good guys should go through trials but ultimately win. Sometimes good guys die in operas, but they die glorious meaningful deaths and give tear jerker last speeches…But in The Acolyte, seeing the bad guys stab, choke and break the necks of the good guys, and seeing the good guys’ bodies lying lifeless with open staring dead eyes, was just repulsive. If I want to see horrors like that I can watch the news, a war documentary, or a horror film per se. The Acolyte was just shock value for the sake of shocking and disturbing viewers. The story was secondary and poorly thought out because it wasn’t about the story. I’ve watched every episode of every other Star Wars series to this point, all through the years, but I wish I could un-see The Acolyte. I’m still profoundly upset about it.
8:30 damn Thor you didn’t have to rip the show up like that lmaooooo
The morality is that the good guys will win in the end. Who cares if it's predictable; the real world can be so fucking gross, that's why we watch these shows/movies. It's an escape and we need to know good will win, no matter how ugly it is at the moment.
Nothing is escapist.
@@opwave79 That literally makes no sense. it is escapism to me, and I can't be alone. Therefore, it exists and is a real experience. Regardless of your bitter and dreary outlook. I didnt create the term/expression/experience so obviously it exists. Your opinion is your opinion, which I didnt ask for.
Hey Thor,
I dont really have any thoughts to add to the video here as it's summed up well. But I did have a more traditional star wars question for you; we all know that Qui-Gon Jinn is a maverick of the Order in the prequels as he is less dogmatic (as Palps would put it) and more "go with the will of the Force". And everyone loves that about him, it seems to be the main reason anyone chooses him as their favorite of the jedi.
But one jedi also strikes me as a very "as the force wills it" character, who seems to let events transpire and tries to roll with what the force is doing, as much as he can given his position.
Grand Master Yoda. He has many many scenes in the prequels showing him contemplating as events happen, pontificating after said events, and even sometimes seemingly willingly ignoring clear cut signs of Palpatines plan and Anakins fall. One scene that stands out is when Palpatine speaks and it cuts to Yoda with a concerned look on his face as if he knows he's being played, but feels he must let events transpire as the Force wants them to. I think there's a real argument to be made that Yoda is also a maverick in the order, just like Qui-Gon, but as he's handcuffed by his role to be the liaison between the order and the senate.
What do you think about this idea that Yoda is also just like Qui-Gon and does what he can to "follow the Will of the Force"??
The fall of Jacen Solo in the Fate of the Jedi series did an excellent job of showing the allure of the Dark Side from the perspective of the Sith, BUT we the audience can see the whole while that it's a pathway to self-destructive disaster. In fact, re-reading it again now, it's a hell of a stressful read, constantly wanting to yell at Jacen to warn him of the obvious mistakes he's making.
Too bad it was a horrible story arc
This is similar to Rings of Power in that it went against the moral underpinning of the original author. The channel Inspiring philosophy - a Christian apologetics channel that doesn't dip into this topic - made a great video that compared Tolkien's philosophy with what RoP presented, and RoP falls short. I'd go so far as to say that this pattern of behavior with older franchises is at the heart of the current issues these franchises are having, and the issues others on both sides hone in on are distractions.
That's because everyone's missing the point. It's not about conservative versus progressive. It's literally the extraordinarily wealthy executives at the top, who are looking to bring back feudalism, versus everyone else.
WAKE UP. THE CHANCELLOR IS THE SITH LORD.
This question was already beyond evident to me with The Last Jedi. I was cautious about the sequel trilogy and I am sorry to say that caution was proven right. I have never watched a minute of Disney Star Wars, other than in clips discussing the topic, as a result of that caution. The Sith are in charge of the franchise. That's been evident for nearly a decade now. I only stick around to watch the ongoing dumpster fire because the original series was that good, and I still have a stake in that story being perpetuated. So I keep opposing the Sith version, with a few minutes here and there.
You've probably heard this before, but Andor and Rogue One are exceptional. Andor season 2 will probably be epic as well. I think you're missing out, but hey, you do you. 🙏
As someone who has "attempted" on a couple different occasions I absolutely agree there should have been a TW against sewerslide
Never consider permanent 'solutions' to temporary problems, kids. As long as you're still breathing, there is hope for things to improve.
Oh for sure I agree this wasn't recent by any means
@@vestarakhai5303 I'm glad you're ok
Just in case no one has said this to you today, or at all, I’m glad you’re still here.
I'm glad you are still here and that you seem from your other comment to have made your way through the dark places you were back then.
Thank you Thor. A big fan of your perspective and contributions to the Star Wars community. Maintain your humility and keep up with the great work!
To be fair to The Acolyte (which I personally didn't even bother watching) it IS conceivable that you could have this ostensibly perfect fairy-tale ending when Osha achieves perfect freedom only to show dark side traits like greed, jealously and selfishness overtake both her and the stranger and destroy their lives in the second season, while Osha's sister, who was raised in the dark, never knowing true, selfless love, would discover that through the Jedi, leading to a showdown between her and her sister with their initial philosophies swapped. In theory, that could make a good, moral Star Wars show. But I haven't seen anything out of Headland that would lead me to believe that this was her plan for the show.
Edit: I guess I should have listened to the rest of the video before posting...
I wish you could double or triple like videos. You take the words right out of my mouth so often and say it better than I can. Hope your health improves. Live your take on all this.
I would like to point out that Jedi wouldn't try to reform a mind wiped Mae. She is responsible for killing jedi masters, so the story going forward wouldn't have any twin shenanigans. But you know they would and think how stupid that would be for a stoyline.
Hey Thor, since I know most of these comments will just be the same copy and pasted generic insult thrown at Star Wars and the The Acolyte which were posted with out watching the video first, I just wanted to say thank you. While I do not consider myself to be a "sewage-s1de-al" person, sometimes it does feel like it's nothing but down hill from here. Thank you for talking about this topic briefly at the end, and addressing the major problem that this has become.
Thanks Thor for talking so much sense when there is currently a sea of non-sense.
I wish there were more channels like yours
Andor understood these themes and was able to navigate the complexities of the “morally gray” aspects of humanity while still maintaining basic universal ideals.
So is she admitting to loving Weinstein?
That’s really the conclusion I’m left to draw if she views the characters as self inserts. Unsettling.
So according to this show, we are wrong for watching "the mandalorian" and wanting Grogu to be kept out of the hands of Moff Gideon.
We are wrong for wanting Boba Fett to kick the pike syndicate off of Tatooine.
That the destruction of entire planets and even solar systems is accessible because a few people want it.
Nice to know.
The sequel Trilogy even got that the dark side is selfish and evil right if the sequel Trilogy does something better than your thing that's a problem
As painful as the Sequel Trilogy does with the abusive relationship with Rey and Kylo, at least it was told about the dark side that one day would hurt you. Do not get it twisted, it doesn't make the Sequels look better, just by a small margin.
Suddenly the sequels look acceptable after this disaster..
@@ssjllamamusicno, they're still awful and made with hate towards Star Wars. It's just slightly more logical than this abomination.
Spot on! We can only hope that the failure of the show to attract an audience and its subsequent cancellation means Star Wars has hit bottom and there is a slight chance matters will improve going forward. Sadly, it could also simply mark the point that Star Wars will never recover from.
Ultimately, it's had a good run. 35 years? That's as long as any IP should run. After that, public domain. The end. No more 90 year copyrights.
Hey Thor, thanks for the video and best wishes! 😊
I always wondered why my sister would never let her daughter watch Disney shows as a kid unsupervised. My niece is 19 now, this has been going on far longer than a lot of people realize.
George’s original message of sending kids into the world with purpose does hit me harder than it ever has. Even though I’m 18, I still feel disconnected from the world at large and I want to find a purpose in it. Having had an autism diagnosis a year and a half ago cleared so much up, but it gave me more questions in return. About… life, simply. After graduating high school I just don’t really know what to do with it. I’ve been stuck. But I am clearing things up, bit by bit. I have amassed very useful knowledge, though. I know how to communicate with my loved ones better and have started unmasking more. Realising I’ve been masking (hiding autism for the sake of fitting in) all my life has brought up huge existential questions about my authenticity. I now know I should pursue my true interests, instead of some dilated, socially preferred versions of them. I have figured out university isn’t it. What does suit me, I do not yet know. I know what suits me. I know what doesn’t. I know my strengths and weaknesses. I just need to find an outlet for the best of myself, in a way that benefits the world too.
Difficult times.
Definitely relatable dilemmas (I also am working through unmasking), though I have found that fixating on the fear of all my life ahead of me is really a test of patience with the unknown, and that is something you can't ever build quickly in your mind. Purpose is discovered gradually, and fiction does help by showing familiar tropes of destiny, justice, or cause and effect, but like all analogies for the human experience, they only work up to a point.
I've also come to realise that we as social beings will only ever understand our purposes the more we try to be active in society and see purpose as connected to sympathising with other people's experiences, learning and creating memories or legacies. They won't even necessarily be achievements we notice as important/meaningful/edifying, or it might take ages for us to get it, but the easiest bet is, therefore, to look for its effects in the people or society around us.
@@gabija_v2012 In the recent rut I’ve been in (autistic burnout), I have distanced myself from society a lot. Part of what I’m looking for now is not just a study that suits me, but also trying to find communities. I’ve found an AuDHD group in my city recently and visited with a friend. It was quite fun.
The way they wrote Torbin's story was very disturbing. Not only he got psychologicaly abused by the witch but his Master and the other Jedis didn't care about his mental state and it never came up later. I guess since it happened to a boy, the showrunner didn't give a crap.
Hey Thor, a couple days ago, I looked on social media and saw that people who upset over the Acolyte being canceled are inexplicably are attacking the Ahsoka series. I honestly don’t get it because, while I personally enjoyed the Ahsoka series, I am willing to admit they are not perfect. But I don’t think Ahsoka is to blame for the Acolyte being canceled. I am curious to know your thoughts on this.
Hmmm that's odd. A mystery is afoot....
Fanboys will attack anything that represents a threat to that thing they like. It's most likely nothing more than impotent nerd-rage. Acolyte was cancelled and it's clearly because other Star Wars shows stole the spotlight, that's what I'd think it is.
@@mortemtyrannus8813that honestly makes sense considering there is a petition to renew The Acolyte. Personally, while I wasn't the biggest fan of The Acolyte and understand why people are upset that the show ended on a cliffhanger, I think people need to understand that it's not the fault of shows like Ahsoka or Andor that The Acolyte wasn't renewed. It wasn't renewed because a lot of people didn't watch it. That's it, pure and simple.
Very very well articulated. Bravo!
Good and evil aren't a thing anymore in new Star Wars which is unfortunate
Oh there's evil, just no good anymore.
Good is evil and evil is just misunderstood.
Darth Bane is rolling in his tomb right now. That kind of relationship goes against what the Dark side is supposed to be. One not desires to be with someone else, but to have power and power only, above anything else. Quimir looked like a mild version of the Joker looking for his Harley Quinn.
What I really disliked about Torbin's self deletion is the show practically depicts it as right or justified. What kind of message is to send to young people that may be struggling with guilt or depression?
Hey Thor, 5:35 - Breaking Bad vs The Acolyte, how to (and how not) write a path from good to evil from the villain's perspective.
Walter White did not achieve his dreams by "falling to the dark side." In fact, because he went down the dark path, he destroyed his life, the lives of everyone he loved, and many lives of strangers. He's certainly not holding hands with Schuyler (or, to remain analogous, even a new bad-guy romantic partner) staring into the sunset when the series concludes.
Moreover, both the writers and the audience know he is not a good guy who is just choosing a different path of anti-authority. He allowed himself to become evil, to become the enemy of good.
I would say that the lesson that "anyone who tries to help you is really not trying to help you" coming from the former personal assistant of Harvey Weinstein is actually an important lesson. But there is also a template for the hero's journey, the kind of stories that have been used to inspire people throughout the ages. The reason why stories survive the ages is because they roughly follow this template; those that don't end up lost over time. This is why we remember classics like Star Wars even today, and why no one talks about some shows less than a year after they get released.
OG Star Wars: Good and evil exist. Choose good and be wary of evil.
Disney Star Wars: Murder and corruption are okay if it’s what makes you feel more like yourself.
Hey Thor, do you think like I do that this trend of destroying IPs has to come to an end? The Acolyte is the perfect example of an IP being destroyed, with LOTR being the next victim with the second season of rings of power.
I'd love to hear your opinion on this, also, I'm going through some health issues myself right now so wishing you a speedy recovery
Call me old-fashioned but I prefer my stories to have clear heroes and villains, Not this deconstruction half-ass storytelling about why evil is good and heroes are the bad guys.
It can be done. Andor does this brilliantly.
While also establishing, in-story, the clear dynamic of good guys and bad guys. All it took was one Tie Fighter flying over 2 characters at close range to establish the oppression and lethal dominance of the Empire... among other examples. When moral relativism is done right, it's usually thought-provoking magical badassery. 🙏
Very good video 👍 as for L.H. the show was about her twisted morality or her lack of any morality. Just me me me me... The show is a reflection of her beliefs and it is sad to see. She knows where the skeletons are burried and that is the only reason she got to make her show. Just to remind you - she worked for Miramax and H.W. when Disney owned Miramax. She has huge knowledge and for her silence she was rewarded
The only G.I. Joe PSA I remember is "PORK CHOP SAMMICHES! PORK CHOP SAMMICHES!"
Actually I think the problem started with a the marketing campaign for one of the video games in the late 90s/early 00s where you could choose play as either a dark side or light side character. As a video game premise, it's brilliant. The problem is that then became the main theme of all Star Wars marketing, dark and light being presented as equal choices with benefits to each, instead being clear that one is a wrong/evil choice.
Brilliant answers to both questions, Thor!
Headland wants to tell a story of the struggles and oppression she's faced in life, but if you see her interviews it doesn't seem like she's actually had any. She seems to think that the mere fact that she's a gay woman means that she must have been oppressed even though she's had things quite easy, and doesn't realize it. She's even said that she felt that people wanted her to fail because she's queer, even though she's had teams of people rooting her on.
I mean, certainly, there are people who are just mad that she's a woman married to another woman. And HAS she faced struggles? Yes, probably... but the struggles of a rich kid trying to be a big fish in the big pond.
I appreciated this video because of the commentary related to what impressionable children (and adults) may have taken away from this series by accident. Such as the discourse on suicide and hopelessness. This was quite a reflective video.
I still have no idea how Headland could have said something like "Star Wars saved my life!" if she was talking about any of the Lucas movies.
I can agree with your commentary on Disney Star Wars and it moral gap makes sense. I do hope they come back and leave the Acolyte in the dust.
As I watched The Acolyte I couldn't believe that this was the message behind the Series. It is sad, that we are at a point in which star wars lost its core message
Beautifully said, Thor. Valuing your own "truth" over everything else is such a destructive force.
This show is horrific in its story telling and message
I agree with your messaging and interpretation of Star Wars as a beacon of hope and morality. Jedi always were inspiring me.
Also, with age, I grow more and more disillusion and disappointed in a world we are lining. In people around particularly.
More and more I tell myself, that I need to think more about myself, that for the sake of my own sanity it is simpler and better to label people and be judgemental. Effectively, I more and more thinking about that being a Sith is actually a way here.
not sure i give GL as much credit as you, but your insight into the differences between vader/palps and osha/Manny are appreciated.
Regarding the question about the trigger warning, as the mother of a 14 yr old girl who ‘unalived’ herself, the answer is no. It should be said, loudly and clearly and then it could be talked about loudly and clearly. Using phrases like unalived is meaningless, we all know what these switch out words mean including kids, who get the wrong idea, they think we can’t talk about it because we can’t even say it’s name and it gains more power. You think I don’t get triggered by the word? It took my baby. I would rather be triggered everyday than continuing this centuries old stigma, that helps keep people in the dark about it and keeps them from reaching out. I hate it.
May your daughter rest in peace 🙏😔🙏
My condolences. RUclips will demonetize videos that mention the real word.
Interesting trivia, most of the films coming out before the first Star Wars film came out were films that had themes of moral ambiguity and questioning what's right and wrong.
Disney has been trying to turn Star Wars into something it was standing against.
Postmodernism and the message of deconstruction it sends is a hell of a drug.
The entire thing the Acolyte does is try to deconstruct the Jedi but fails in doing so when they just reinforce that the Jedi are a force for good in the galaxy and that the Dark Side is this seductive corrupting force that promises you your dream and the power to achieve them but you have to go to some really dark places and do some inhumane things to get what you want.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion,
Through passion I gain strength,
Through strength, I gain power,
Through power, I gain victory,
Through victory, my chains are broken,
The Force shall set me Free."
-The Sith Code
The fact that Headland believes this shows how corrupt and selfish her thinking is in that power will set her free and heal her of the injustices she believes were committed against her.
I've been down that road. As Yoda said, "Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering."
There is no joy to be found at the end of that dark road. Only the pain of self-inflicted torture.
No I'm not okay and frankly having grown up with 80s and early 90s media is probably the only thing that reminds me of one important factor that the later 90s and 00's have forgotten. Happy Endings have their place too.
Leslye Headland relates most to the space nazis, got it.