CCM and deconstruction: Why are so many Christian music artists leaving the faith?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Join me, Jeremy and Adrienne Camp, and John and Korey Cooper as we discuss why we are seeing so many highly platformed Christians leaving the faith, and to testify why we still believe. We will take some questions live as well! July 26th, 5pm Pacific/7pm central/8pm eastern.
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When my daughter died, Jesus was my one comfort, my refuge. It was all Him. He is the reason I was able to function and have my being.
I can't imagine your loss, but thank you for your testimony.
I haven't lost a child but I did lose my mom to cancer in 2020. I feel the same way. I have grown so much in my love for Jesus. I had to choose to believe that God was good and loved me. I just want to say there is something about death that really shows you where you need to look. And I feel changed by God's grace towards me during that time.
Same here. I actually came to faith in Jesus when my litttle boy died. God bless you 🙏
Just to clarify my comment/reply above. Jesus had already began calling me before my son was born but I was stuck in the occult/new age (Having being raised agnostic/newage).
I had come to the conclusion that Jesus was real, but didn't "get" the gospel yet or truly "get" WHO He is.
When my son died, it was crux time for me, so I called out to Him to forgive and save me and He answered with such a flood of love and healing and He carried me through that grief. 1 year later, I finally understood the Gospel and got baptized 🤗 Praise God 🙏
@@LadyWeaver what an absolutely amazing testimony. Our children are not gone, they simply wait on us to be reunited with them again in paradise. Thank you so much for sharing. ❤️✝️
I never had heard Jeremy's story before and it hits pretty close to home. My wife and I walked through a similar path in 2016-17 where our almost 2 year old daughter went to be with Jesus after an almost yearlong battle with a rare form of lung cancer. After many cycles of chemo and surgery, the tumors seemed to go away completely; until around Christmas-time when they came back, larger and more invasive than ever. She went to be with Jesus on February 7, 2017, but as I type this, I praise God that, even though I struggled with anger against Him and un-forgiveness (both against Him and myself), I never lost faith and He has restored my joy through forgiveness and reconciliation. Now, our eyes and perspective are forever eternally focused, as whenever we think of our daughter, the next thought is where she is and with whom - Christ. And through His loving sacrifice of dying and taking the punishment for my innate sin and resurrection, I know that I will be with them both for eternity.
The movie "I Still Believe" tells about Jeremy's story, if you want to learn a little more about the story
Thank you sharing.
Wow...brother. praise God and yoy
@Jake LaGotta So true, brother. Such great depths of peace and joy that we can experience from our Savior who has walked it all before and can comfort like none other. Grateful for that level of comfort that we can and do now share with other couples walking through similar paths.
God bless you! That's the greatest and saddest loss.
I became a Christian when I was 14 years old. My parents were going through a divorce. It was hard time. I felt abandoned by a parent. A long story I am not going into no more dwelling on the past. It did bring me to God. My sister went to a Christian camp. I felt the Holy Spirit I felt love and I wanted it. The first contemporary song was “God is an Awesome God by Rich Mullins. It has been an awesome journey with Christ. I know Christ will NEVER abandon me
I'm happy you found him and found comfort. I'm looking for stories of people who had wonderful lives, were in the perfect place in thier lives. Had everything going right and found god. Cause it seems god waits till you are at your lowest emotional state before its more able to enter your heart. Have you heard of anyone turning to god during good times of thier life?
Not, "god,"... God.
Also, He is not an, "it."
And God is not the one who's waiting. We humans r often so ego centered & self-focused that only when we r shaken by a difficult time, or tragedy, do we humble ourselves. Then we search for God, only to find He's been right there all along. We can open the door and invite Him in, but He gave us free will & choice.
I was in high school she I listen to these bands and now in my 30s. I’ve seen the trend of people I looked up to decide to stop following Christ and it is hard and a reminder not to elevate anyone above Christ. I don’t know who said it but they said Jesus didn’t say follow my disciples, he said follow me.
This is so encouraging to hear and see. Thank you for taking the time to do this and encourage the body of believers!
As a young newborn Christian that started out terrified of reading the Bible and terrified of attending church I can’t tell you how much God used Christian music to speak to and encourage me. Christian writers too. I still remember the day I broke down and bought a Bible, then spending a month seeing it on my dresser, rushing past it like it was a snake that was about to bite me. Lol. Decades later I now cant stop reading the Bible over and over and wanna memorize the whole thing.
This is such a precious story 🥺
1:21:07
Christianity is true whether I feel it or not.
Wow.
That is a statement that is hard to swallow. So many Christians, especially new-reborn Christians, come to depend on that spiritual high feeling as a litmus test for how true or "real" their faith is. It is SO IMPORTANT not to link belief with emotions exclusively. In a worship setting, you may not get those warm and fuzzy youth summer camp worship feelings, but that may be because God is tailoring that moment to work on someone else who may be struggling with belief or even on the verge of accepting Christ.
If you worship, the feelings may (or may not) follow. But we are not called to "feel good" about God. We are called to worship God because He alone is worthy of worship! Don't do it because you feel it. As said earlier in this discussion, relying on feelings is a dangerous road. Feelings are fleeting but the TRUTH is everlasting!
There are many times in church that I forced myself to sing the worship songs and really think about the lyrics even when I had no desire to and then eventually I felt closer to God or was reminded of a scripture verse. Sometimes it just takes a decision to do what the Bible says even when we don't feel it and that is when God works. Just like John said, music is powerful!
I felt like this might have been the most strongest line as well. So good and so true. I can't wait to teach this to my kids.
David thanks! Very profound!
@@gregolson7499 I do have trouble with the new Christian music though! There is one song in particular that sounds like a love song and never mentions Jesus or God's name. Also another one that says Jesus'name one time! I grew up on good hymnal music or contemporary Christ songs hymns that mention God and the spirit in RCC! Music does matter and I struggle to think of this as worship when it seems the worship team is mostly about the "show!"
♡
What a blessing to hear so much scripture quoted during this session. That’s the point, right? Stand on the word of God, and the rain may fall and the floods may rise; but He will remain our firm foundation, forever and ever, Amen. God bless you all and all who listen.
I love seeing this. I got saved in 1999 at a Josh Harris conference when I was 16. As you probably know he has “deconstructed” and regretted his books and whatnot. I got really into CCM, listening to all of you-Skillet, Benjamin Gate, Jeremy Camp and ZOEgirl. I’m so glad to hear you all now, still following. I’m in a weird place in my faith I would say but I have no doubt that the Lord is who he says he is. I’ve seen too much to ever walk away. But I’d like to grow from where I’m at currently.
I'm praying for you.
I had no idea he deconstructed. This is so sad to me. I didn't idolize him, but his books did mean a lot to me.
When did it happen?
I was saved in early 1998. I was almost seventeen. It was a hard couple first years.
@@AmyAndThePup I believe around 2019? His current social media is depressing to see.
Thanks for the prayers.
I've just found out that I was in an emotional deconstruction of my faith without noticing, but this stories are helping me so much, love you all!
I pray you have dug in deep to the word & your faith has been built stronger with Christ as your cornerstone 🙏🏽❤️
Quote: Child of God. You cost Christ too much for him to forget you. Charles Spurgeon.
It's that kind of determinism that people can't stomach.
Wonderful quote sums Jesus up and his sacrificial love for us
@@jacquelinehayward3011
It's a two way street, something Spurgeon didn't understand.
Thank you so much for this. The last few months have been such a struggle for me in my faith journey. I just didn’t and still don’t understand why such awful traumatic things happen to people and children. I finally said to God about a month ago ‘I don’t understand and I might never understand why things are the way they are, but I trust in you God. I shared my struggle with my pastors and since then God has been slowly, gently, and lovingly shining truth, hope and joy back into my spirit. He is faithful, even when I have not been. I have been meeting him on my knees and filling up with his word and peaceful presence as I pray and truly knowing that the Lord is good. He will never leave me, and I can always meet him where I’m at. It’s also so encouraging hearing the artists that I love so much have had struggles like this themselves and that I’m not lost but just a little battle weary. ❤️
Keep your faith in Jesus Christ... Even your testimony also inspire others 👍...
I'm not the smartest man in the world kind of glad I don't understand the whole deconstruction thing I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins and I believe that he died for me and he is my lord and savior
You sound pretty smart to me! Amen, brother!
@@gregolson7499 thank you have a blessed day
Agreed. Not sure why she can't speak in terms people can understand.
I don't think you are dumb. You just havent taken the time to read the bible unbiased. And being "smart" is not required to seek truth. Just reading comprehension, not listening to someones elses biased interpretation.
If your goal is to seek truth no matter what. If you believe god would not punish you for seeking truth. And loves you no matter where your journey takes you. Then you will let go of the fear of eternal burning hell, and fear of losing "eternal life". And you can approach the whole bible with a curious and questioning eye. You will either come away with a stronger faith that can withstand even more scrutiny or you will come away with the truth...and make a decision on following that path or denying it to stay comfortable.
@@kylas1902 actually I do read my bible everyday
Korey’s testimony of, “I’ve tasted too much to walk away.” Is what I’ve said for years. It too is my testimony.
Same here! So simple but so truthful.
Yess! Mine too! 🙌
Any Christian could claim that at any time, and then years down the road - still walk away. Any Muslim could make the same claim. I once too, felt the same way - until I actually walked away.
It's been mine for a while now
Same!
Im listening to this on October 6,2023. It is timely for me. I have been grieving and I know that God is always good and true. But I have been questioning where is God in my pain. Being angry, doubting God. So hearing your testimonies has been so helpful and I feel the Holy Spirit renewing me. So thankful, Alisa so much for your podcast.
I wish every single Christian in the public eye could listen to this conversation. SUCH an incredible encouragement and faith-builder!
So encouraging to see the Coopers and the Camps sold out to Christ...it's evident. Great job, Alisa! I hope many see this and don't automatically throw all CCM artists under the bus. It can be very problematic as I had a friend who was a road manager for years in CCM due to many of the things talked about in the Live Chat but this will give hope to those struggling or questioning for sure.
I'm also struggling with how to untangle worthy artists such as Skillet and Camp from those derived from false teachings, especially regarding Bethel/Hillsong/Elevation... I was hoping to hear a little on the subject from their inside perspective, but understand that they probably don't want to light that bombshell just yet.
I myself just resigned from a leading role as bassist/vocalist for my church after 5 years of constant service. So far (at least for the praise and worship side) I've distilled it down to 3 questions that need answered.
1) does the song send money (or followers) to the ministries of known/verified false churches/teachers?
2) Is the artist DIRECTLY tied to the aforementioned false teachers?
3) Are the lyrics themselves theologically problematic?
If the answer is yes to any of those questions, it's best to steer clear most of the time, even knowing that the artist themselves may actually be genuine. It's a very tough stance to maintain, but very necessary to do within the demands made of us in the book of Jude.
@@Meat_Skraps I actually asked that exact question in the live feed but it didn't get chosen. Yes, my son who is getting his Masters of Divinity right now and I have some hot debates on this. He is actually more conservative than me on this and will not willingly click on a song to show any support. Every time we listen to a Hillsong or Elevation Church song, they get paid (basically). Is that supporting false teaching platforms because we know there is some questionable stuff coming from those teachings. Where do you draw the line--it's tough. So many of their songs including Bethel are biblically sound (not all) and have encouraged folks in the faith including me. So what do we do that best honors God. Would love for Alisa to tackle that subject in a video all on it's own!
@@jeffrohm776 As you're aware (and I'll state for the benefit of others), this topic requires a very firm foundation, a staggering amount of research, and a considerable amount of discernment. Always with this kind of thing, keep in mind Proverbs 24:12. I would submit that this falls directly upon the shoulders of the elders and the more seasoned in faith. God can and does use even this music for His glory, even while I believe He calls those who are aware to condend for the purity of both the Gospel, and our worship.
Skillet is not from God.
@@nikokapanen82 why?
Wow!! This really touched me! I've been having a really hard time in my life and I have really felt alone for about 3 years now. Constantly putting a front but knowing inside that I'm lost and hurting and feeling so disconnected from God. I've grew up all my life hearing, knowing and learning about God. My life took a major turn 3 years ago and since I've been a mess. Constantly crying when I'm alone. I pray but it feels empty. I try to read my Bible but my mind distracts me constantly. I speak about God to people and tell them about His love but I don't practice what I preach. This really helped and I'm going to take John's advice and read my Bible out loud. Please pray for me and Alisa thank you for these programs, they are a blessing even if I feel empty inside at the moment
This is so good if you dare to watch or listen. My story is a little like Jeremy Camp's story except not my spouse and not cancer. My husband and I lost our newborn son. I hope this is a blessing to you.
My deepest sympathy for the loss of your son. 💔🛐
Dear Lord pls draw close to these precious people dealing with the loss of their son. You promise in your word ti draw near to the broken hearted and to bind up their wounds. We praise you Lord and thank you for your promised presence. Amen
🙏❤️🙏
I still believe because JESUS stood in the fire right beside me, held me up, gave me strength and helped me persevere. Then in His grace and perfect timing, He lead me out. Then He healed me, mentally,, emotionally, spiritually and physically. In ways I cannot even articulate with human words. I walked out of that fire with no burns, no soot and not smelling of smoke! Who can do that? ONLY JESUS, THE CHRIST, SAVIOR AND LORD AND SOON COMING KING! All Glory to God forever and ever! Amen
I love this. I love hearing Jeremy's story. My mother passed away in February at the age of 56 from cancer. She was healed at one point from her cancer, in remission for 7 months, then the cancer returned and we lost her less than a year later. She loved the Lord and we know she is with our savior.
I now pray from those I love and she loved that have deconstructed from their faith since her death. And I am humbled and thank the Lord that he has held me close and strengthened my faith in the midst of my grief.
The Lord will hold you close yet. 🙏🏼
RIP momma rest in the arms of Jesus no more pain or sufferingxx
There are so much good stuff in this video. I just went through a handful of C.S. Lewis audiobooks and this resonates well with a lot of the viewpoints he had. Christianity is SO much deeper than what the average American church-goer has made it out to be, and SO much more than what the average American pastor is preaching.
I love C.S. Lewis. I took a C.S. Lewis literature course in college.
@@Caderic did you study theology and the history of the origins of the original bible books?
@@kylas1902 My major was Professional Flight. So as a major, theology? No I did not. But we were required to take several theology courses to graduate.
As far as canonization of the bible, I do know how that happened and the history of many of the books. But I am no expert.
@@Caderic Professional Flight! Awesome.
Well I encourage you to look deeper at the history of the bible. The authors of the new testament and whether the stories of Adam and Eve, Moses, and Noah that are referenced as true in the New Testament are actually stories about real people or all allegory and myth to teach lessons.
@@kylas1902 Is that a passive aggressive way of saying the OT is not literal?
Man I feel that a strong local biblical church is the answer to strengthening weak faith.
I was in the hospital room with my mother, praying over her to be healed or to pull thru, i could feel my faith coursing thru my veins - believed that she would be ok. Yeah, I hated God that night .... 25 years later I still miss her, still wake up some nights bawling my eyes out, but I know shes in better hands now. I wish my kids and their kids could have known her, my smile and hugs simply pale in comparison to hers :'( But she had to die in order for me to grow in faith, to be able to stand on my own before God and not use her as a crutch ... even tho shes still part of my foundations, it now rests firmly upon noone but Christ. He is my rock, my high tower.
Faith doesn’t course through your veins.
Faith doesn’t course through your veins.
Faith doesn’t course through your veins.
Faith doesn’t course through your veins.
Faith doesn’t course through your veins.
I love Korey Cooper, because we are very similar. When she said "someome in my church may get on my nerves and vice versa, but its a sharpening." That resonated with me because I can be like that and God has used that to help me learn how to love people and lay down my life. The body of Christ is not perfect rather we are sinful people saved by grace and trying to make heaven our home.
"They went out from us but they were not of us, for if they were of us, they would have remained with us..."- 1 John 2:19. There are so many false converts now because of a superficial and false representation of the Gospel that when they leave, it shouldn't surprise us. We have watered down the Gospel of Christ and robbed the cross of its power. That's why they're leaving- they were never Christians to begin with, merely people who strived in the flesh for a period of time. Wanna fix the problem? Preach the true Gospel.
I don't water anything down, I like to fire it up!
How many have gone astray and no one from the church reached out to those who disappear because of that misleading verse. Easier to track down would be how many times you yourself would've given up if it wasn't for whoever it was that cared enough to help you see you were wrong about something. How many times would you have given up if it wasn't for someone who said something you didn't want to hear and you couldn't shake it out of your head and saw things you couldn't see before? We can't just let people wonder off and just let them go their way. Sure we can't change each others minds, but what if we sat with them in their choices and didn't just abandon them there? What if because we were there the Spirit of God could do something that we can't and somehow whatever spirit is manipulating them to fall away could lose it's grip? What if because we are there the devil can't get away with what he's trying to do? What if we could be there for Christ and for them realizing they're walking away from their only hope? If we show up; won't God show up too? Is there really anything God can't do if we trust Him and do what His word says?
Oh; I left out the parts about those who are only "Christian" because of what they get out if it. Yeah; many are only Christian because they think it means they can be saved from sin and keep sinning. It is a teaching God despises and addresses many times in scripture. Only those who endure till the end will be saved and yet they serve God and retire from it. There are many who only use Christianity for their benifet and really don't believe in God. A whole bunch of them believe in the mask more than they believe what God's word says or else they don't know or care what His word says which isn't possible if they knew God and they have brains. How can anyone believe in God and not fear Him enough to make sure they understood how avoid getting under His foot and getting stepped on like those deer that were killed from finding out what a car is. Gods word will prove itself true in every life even if they never read it or care what it says. This is a spiritual war and these held captive by deception can only get away with them if we don't pray and seek God in the Spirit and seek His Kingdom above all others. The kingdoms of this world have failed, but God never fails.
@@Itismeonhere I read a quote in Manafest book "Fighter" the guy said "it doesn't matter about your past mistakes and failures, keep showing up in front of the truth and you'll be ok." I agree with John Cooper about having a church with real people to go to.
@@christopherdrake8406 yes! Very important to have a real church with real people that are apart if each others lives like a family and not just members of a club. Members of a club just show up to watch the show and go back to the world and change memberships because the other place has a nice seating arrangement and things like that; but a family member is still related to you even if they move to another country.
“They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.”
1 John 2:19 (NASB1995)
That passage came to my mind as well when they were discussing those who have walked away. We need to pray for those that have walked away. Maybe the Lord would open their eyes to the Truth that is Jesus Christ.
@@patriciamccool5243 Patricia, I also encourage us to pray both for those who have walked away from the faith and also for those who are presenting a different universalist gospel that is aka a different gospel all together.
For those who "Love Jesus, but hate the church"... just a reminder that we're not called to walk alone in Christ. The family of God is for you, and you are for them. The challenge is that people fail, we all do. But we should be building each other up and encouraging each other toward Christ.
Also, if the church is the bride of Christ, how do you think He'll feel when you tell Him, "I hate your wife, but love you, can I be your wife instead?"
I hear this buts its hard to encourage when all you get is the opposite
@@thejandjchannel5016 Very true, but remember as well that our strength to give encouragement doesn't come from ourselves, but from the encouragement that God gives us. So we go to Him and receive encouragement first, and then have the strength to offer it. Blessings!
The very people that attack Christianity, based on bad or hypocritical Christians, do NOT attack political parties, science, historians, or a wide variety of vocations, based on some bad people in each of those industries. Simply put, they are looking for an excuse to ignore or attack God.
@Scott Krukowski Umm...I must not have been clear, or maybe I misunderstood. I was referring to non-christians that attack our beliefs based on some hypocritical people. Maybe I misunderstood Andrew the original poster?
@Scott Krukowski FYI, my wife is a professional Christian musician. I'm not commenting on musicians, I'm commenting on Andrew's first line, his first thought. His second thought was uplifting struggling Christians.
Why are you attacking me? We are in agreement. Peace Friend.
Alisa, I so enjoyed this pod cast and the light went on who your related to, I don't think you would have known me and our band Phoenix Sonshine but I remember the really early days of Christian music and how the few of us who fought the CCM because we could see the harm it would one day cause. Sitting in the tent listening to your dad sing, touring 10 months out of year happy to make the gas bill to the next concert, sleeping in our VAN in the middle of the desert to save money so we could play the next concert. How far Christian music has either grown or gone bby the wayside for money over the true Gospel of JESUS. Gary Cowan and I are still following Jesus, preaching HIS Gospel loving people after 50 years. PLEASE keep up the great work that Pastor Chuck started so long ago.❤
I have always believed that Jeremy Camp has one of the most gifted voices in all current day recorded music. But, as wonderful as his voice is to listen to, his testimony to faith in Jesus Christ is all the more wonderful and moving.
Pro.3:4-6 has been a narrow gate that has kept me focused on Jesus only
I’m not smart enough to question Him . The author and finisher of my faith.
Appreciate your guest stories we have put them up as someone to look to as having
It all together. Thank them for being truthful May their testimony touch many lives
as much as they have blessed me. Thank you Alisa give them a hug from me💕
So good to see people I respect speaking to this. I have a close friend who served in leadership in a church group for years who now doubts all he once believed. This post is on point, thanks so much for doing it. Pray for my friend and me.
"I've tasted too much to walk away" It's now my favorite quote ever
Back when I was a Christian I would have thought the same thing. But any Christian can claim that, and then sometime in the future - still walk away. It happened to me.
@@pwoods100 Oh ok. I don't think that Jesus would walk away from me. I was sick when I watched this. I was getting sicker and it was bad but I knew that he was there to make me feel better. That's why that I stayed up to watch this and cuz I'm a huge fan of the Coopers and Camps. I'm a fan of Korey the most though. The words were pretty powerful. God's words are powerful
@@petite.madame I am now an atheist. I'm sorry about you being sick. I'm not going around trying to disprove a god, but I no longer believe. It can happen to anyone.
@@pwoods100 oh no.... I believe in God though. It's never okay to be alive without God
@@petite.madame Why not?
I listened to Jeremy camp when raising my children
I had a pretty bad experience in the church I went to for 13 years
I fell away from church but always held jesus in my heart
But looking back I really fell away from my walk with jesus I can relate to Jeremy's wife and what she saw.
It was just a few months ago I listened to Jeremy camp and had a huge moment and I repented and have come closer to jesus than ever, all of you have had a huge impact on my faith
So grateful for all your testimonies
God bless you 🙏
Not sure when or if you all will read this comment. However,my wife and I have served each of you at least once since 1998, as a behind the scenes volunteer. From festival con dios in Colorado to soulfest in New Hampshire, to random concerts in Massachusetts.
It is great to see how you have persevered in your faiths. We saw many "christians" that were in name only to get on a label. We saw good people who sheilded themselves from us because, as you said, you don't know who to trust.
Which speaks volumes, sadly, to the lack of sibling care for our "brothers and sisters".
We thank God and our common savior Jesus for Him walking you through this and I am glad to see you all reaching out to help others.
Be blessed and keep fighting the good fight.
And it is a fight.
These testimonies are heartfelt. Jeremy has faced so many struggles and she still chooses God. That is so encouraging. It reminds me, we are all human. Nobody is perfect, everyone struggles, but God does not needs us to be perfect, he loves us.
Tell that to the old heads in the church picking everything apart
How about doing another collaboration like this where you talk about the importance of marriage and how to successfully stay married?
This is EXTREMELY valuable content for ANYONE listening... Praying for this to be shared far & wide 💗🙏
1:19:55 is so good!!! “Don’t make being on fire the goal.”
Skillet, Jeremy Camp, and Benjamin Gates!!! My teenage years in one video :)
Lol and Zoegirl
Exactly!! I thought the same 😁😄
Very few are grounded in the concrete basics of the faith. I did my own research as a young believer. Studied the Creeds and basic Christian doctrine. I quit doing an evaluation daily because it got me focused on feelings. The Word is logical and sets the boundaries of our common faith in Christ
Zoegirl, wow I remember the group. Heard about this stream from John Cooper yesterday morning. Now I have to listen to it all while driving at work. 🙌
I started listening to Evie, Honeytree, Petra, Sweet Comfort Band and so many, many more, and they had a major impact on me. I no longer listen to CCM because so much of it is a theological wasteland. It seems to me that many of these artists come from backgrounds that are experienced-based, rather than Word-based, and have never really heard deep expository teaching & preaching.
And we are told that in the last days there will come a great apostasy. We may be seeing that even now. So very sad.
Thankful to see the Coopers and Camps who are standing strong.
Real Christian music is not about having a top-ten hit. Real Christian music is born out of sacrifice, adversity and study. Most CCM artists have not been through the wilderness. Have not been tested. And too many have been sold a false gospel of "Your Best Life Now" nonsense.
So true brother. Support independent Christian artists- far from the CCM industry- I will say this: Not all CCM artists open for heretics like Joyce Meyers and Kenneth Copeland- some true artists are guilty by association- however, as a person seeking independence from the CCM industry- I'll be Happy If God is pleased- to help save souls ( just planting seeds- and to encourage the Saints)
When CCM morphed into the Nashville Worship-Industrial Complex my vintage boombox pretty much stopped playing what they continued to crank out. Gone are the days of actual Christians, whether theologically trained or not, writing music borne out of their own experiences or the truth in the Word. When you take that out of the music it simply is pop music and not something that my ears want to hear.
Check out "Art of the State" album by A.D. / Kerry Livgren, great album. Kerry was primary lyricist for Kansas. One of the best Christian albums in my opinion.
You're throwing out the baby with the bath water. You should listen to Casting Crowns in particular. Most of their music is very scriptural.
I wasn't in CCM, but I fell away from God before and had to find God didn't fall away from me. It is really more like steering off the road and ending up in a tree or a ditch. After you recover you realize how important it is to keep your eyes on the road and not be deceived by earthly things. We all fall down, but the worse the pain from falling, the more you try not to fall down. But the rich young ruler left and got busy I guess. The cares of this world can grow up and drowned out the seed from God.
Such a great word, brother!
There was a time I heard the LORD tell me in my heart that if things fell apart; it would only happen if God let it happen. I took the vision or whatever it was to mean that things wouldn't fall apart, but it was God warning me He was about to knock things down. When I was left in those first moments sitting on the other side of the universe from just days before; I heard this thought in my mind, that God must not be real for this to have happened. It didn't last long though. It was the Holy Spirit that couldn't keep quiet. I heard the chuckle and then it dawned on me that I had seen God do so much and how can I believe such a lie and started laughing too. The more I thought about how ridiculous it could be that satan would try to pin a thought like that at me just made me laugh more because I realized how hard he was trying to get me to give up on God as if I could doubt Him. Our God is a firm foundation. We're the ones that fail, but God just uses our failures to punish us and then turn our pain into healthy soil that the seeds of His wisdom can grow from and build a bridge of blessing out of our hardest moments. These are the things that bring us closer to Him and we find He has always been there the whole time.
Great analogy!!
@@Itismeonhere.
Loved this!! ❤❤ Please do a Part 2 with more Christian artists!! ❤❤
Most Christian songs are not even about Jesus. They're all "Me-centered" songs: "God heal me". "God thinks I'm special". "I'm beautiful". "I'm sad about my life's trials". "I'm a fun Christian". Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. Zero anointing. No power. No Holy Spirit. No Jesus.
Meanwhile the Bible says we're to decrease and Jesus must increase. 🤦♀️
Amen!!!
Except for --
We are to ask for our hearts desires, which would be for God to heal is when we are I'll. God absolutely DOES think I am special (and because He does, so do I!!!)!!!!! We are created with emotions that we are meant to experience, so being sad about anything is ok. Living in that sadness is not. And there's nothing wrong with being a fun Christian. It says that Christianity and following Jesus don't have to always be solemn and boring. In fact, it SHOULD be fun to follow and worship Christ!!! What could he any more fun than being in love with the Creator and Saviour of the world?? Christianity is about having a personal relationship with God. It's about going to Him, with everything. This includes the small stuff as much as the big. It means telling Him everything we think and feel even though He already knows it all. Talent is a gift from above, to be cherished and used. Every song does not have to be an absolute Sunday School lesson set to music. He DOES say I am loved. He DOES say I am beautiful. He does say I am worth it. And he does say to share, witness, with others. So when we share our stories of going from broken to whole, there's nothing wrong with believing God wants is to FEEL loved, beautiful and worth it. He also gave us different personalities and gifts for a reason. What resonates with you may be different than what resonates with me. I am extremely artistic with my words but I can't draw a stick person to save my life. But if I wrote a poem or a story, someone else can bring those words to life in drawings or paintings. It's synchronicity at its finest when we use our gifts and talents to worship The Lord. He obviously intended it. But the slippery slope gets much more slippery when we forget to give HIM the glory for all that and think we did it all on our own. We can't do ANYTHING all on our own. I. Not saying these artists get it right all the time, because they obviously don't. What I'm saying is, unless we know what is truly in and on their hearts we are in no place to judge. And then, only under extreme care and supervision. Prayers will go mich further than criticism. Of course, these are just my opinions and thoughts.
@@qqq1q1qqqqqqq Its great that you feel this way but be careful not to rely on feelings as you grow in your life and walk with the Lord. Some days/weeks/months you may feel nothing, and that's when walking with Jesus gets hard. Your enthusiasm is awesome, but I think the reason many people like being strict with what they listen to is that we have walked this path for a long long time and know how easy it is to be misled. I think sometimes that secular music is better than Christian music with bad/low theology.
@@melaniexoxo I agree with your last comment. Totally. Thank you for being so kind in your response. The only thing is, I am not a new Christian and have been on my faith walk for a very long time. There have been times where I've back away, backslidden if you prefer, but I am a whole lot older and a whole lot wiser. I have been through a ton of "ugly junk" in life and had some times of darkness. Not because God ever turned His back on me, but because I turned my back on Him. But I have been able to grow and with God's grace I have been able to serve in a beautiful ministry where I am privileged to help others find the unbelievable beauty in God's love for them. Well, that and so much more. I'm not being conceited or cocky, just trying to say that I completely understand what you're saying but I stand behind my comments. I would like to reiterate how much I appreciate your kind, not to mention calm and respectful response. So many times people are hateful online and it just feeds into the whole 'Christians are bad' theory. My best wishes to you! 💗
@@qqq1q1qqqqqqq Wow! I'd like to just chime in and say that this is one of most respectful and kind exchanges I've seen on RUclips in a while. I've been a believer for a long time and I was blessed by what both of y'all had to say. Thank you! :)
I love what John said about feelings not being reality in practical life. I struggle with that. I have been deconstructing in a way… although I don’t call it that. I just felt God pulling us away from one church and to a church that is more aligned with my husband’s “where is that in the Bible?” approach to spiritual things. There were so many things in my experience of Christianity at church that my husband would say he had a problem with because, “where is that in the Bible?”. So we found a church that is centered around what the Bible says about everything and anything. And it’s a major change. Everything is less showy, performance, programmed. It’s just normal people singing together and learning what the Bible says for us today. That shouldn’t be a shock to my system, but it really is.
Thank the Lord on high that He is tugging on hearts that are stuck in churches that are off-focus and not edifying them.
this is why i’ve been deconstructing. i just had this click in my brain that modern churches that i(and most young people) was attracted to, it did not reflect the bible
I am happy to find Christians that follow the bible closer. It seems hypocritical to be Christian and not follow the main book. Now do you avoid shellfish, refrain from wearing mixed clothing, beat your disobedient children? Or do you pick and choose which laws and commandments in the bible you want to follow?
This was such an amazing and encouraging conversation! I would love to see you guys do something like this again someday.
gold star goes to everyone for addressing the "your truth" issue...
So much truth!! This is so so refreshing. Thank you Alisa, Jon, Corey, Adie and Jeremy for speaking up on these things and providing clarity along with the Word of God during such a tumultuous time in our culture.
Amen. This was so encouraging to see/hear right now when it seems like the whole world has gone crazy. Your voices have been a calm in this stormy and often scary time, thank you so much for doing this.
I ask around because of a Good-Cause-Project to make the Internet less 'Messy'.
Point in case: Wanna hear more, perhaps? I promise it costs at no point money.
Block me the second i mention Money, ok?
I do have a question that has been on my mind for a long time….. why are Christians artists making songs that say nothing about Christ?? So singers sound like they are referring to a boy or girl, others you have no idea what saved them. A lot of Christian music are becoming inspirational not worship.
That’s what I was thinking..
Because it sells. Money is the bottom line, not truth. You can get more fans and sales inside and outside the church by staying doctrinally neutral and not offending anyone.
The true saving gospel is an offense, even to some who profess to be Christian. I worked in the CCM industry for years. Don't be fooled, money still rules the roost unfortunately. And some of the Artists making " Christian music" are in fact not Christians at all. Some go the CCM route because they can't make it in the mainstream secular market at the beginning of their careers.
You'd be surprised how many CCM Artists are biblically ignorant and even hostile toward the scriptures. And many are practicing homosexuals.
I was on a tour of a well known artist back in the late 90's and the keyboard player , a professing Christian was married had a young son, and while out on tour was meeting men in the different cities and inviting them back to his hotel room. He ended up leaving his wife and son and moved in with a man claiming God wanted him to be happy.
Mario S. is correct in that doctrinally neutral is what the masses want. It’s what sells and it’s what packs the churches full. I truly believe we are living in the last days, the Rapture is imminent, and The Great Tribulation is right around the corner. God is separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. His Bride is readying herself for The Bridegroom. “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matt. 7:13-14
Did you know that the band Lifehouse with that song “hanging by a moment” was actually written about God but how was anyone supposed to know that?! They are supposedly a Christian band but no one knew that, and in fact a had an ex who said that the song made him think about me. People just think it’s a romantic song and completely miss the original point because the band played it safe.
I struggle with this as well. Many popular artists/songs only mention God or Jesus in passing, so disheartening. Most recent one that comes to mind: "Hold On To Me" by Lauren Daigle. It could LITERALLY be a love song between a man and woman!? A pet peeve of mine. 😔
So grateful you all shared your hearts and passion for the gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you, it was definitely encouraging for me! Now I’m gunna go listen to I still believe with a fresh perspective😉
I was so excited to see all of you. This is so encouraging! Please invite this panel again! 🤩
Thank you so much. God Bless!
1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
Storms of life test our faith. For me, they (death, divorce, cancer) have caused me to cling tighter to my faith and get deeper in the Word and prayer. Storms are a tool of the enemy trying to get between us and God. I’m glad these people all got through bad times and didn’t abandon their faith. They will encourage others with this conversation.
The comment from Alisa, "dont let being on fire your goal" one of the best, most freeing words I've heard. I still believe, but one would never know it from my life. Thanks so much.
Not going to look for a church that agrees with me. Maybe just one that needs me, as need them.
I'm super impressed by Mrs. Cooper's connection and knowledge through her connection to the Holy Spirit . I already knew John is the real thing man these are awesome people. I am proud to be all of these peoples brother in Christ this goes for the Camps as well all great artist and believers!
Your interview has so many layers of hope, encouragement and great recommendations. To Jeremy Camp you are my favorite all time worship singer and musician 🕊️ Personally your music saw me through much dark times. Your experience in life and pain God brought you through comes through and is so relatable- your scars you sing through and write songs from and pore out and the lyrics hit the heart. Every single song you write! To Skillet- your songs helped both believers and unbelievers and target the gospel in a way that sounds musically like the world but with Jesus at the core of the message. May it be played everywhere to bring prodigals home !!To Alisha, I’m a new subscriber but I have gained so much by your content I cannot say thanks enough ❤you are so helpful to listeners and I love your heart for apologetics.
May God bless the ministry and many see this channel and be strengthened in Him.
2 Peter 3:18
May all grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Grace be with you all
Hebrews 13:25
I still have my 'The Benjamin Gate' albums!!! My son loves Jeremy's music. And I saw Skillet in Regina Saskatchewan Canada, probably in 98 or 99! My college band liked playing skillets 'saturn has a ring around it' together!
I remember seeing Skillet, Benjamin Gate and 38th Parallel @ the 808 here in Goshen, Indiana maybe 20 years ago. I remember seeing Skillet in Middlebury, Indiana with reliant k. I think both were Alien Youth Tour dates.
Me too!! The Benjamin Gate was my fav!!!
@@christopherdrake8406 Heard of 'Genetically Modified Sceptic'?
One of the warmest Ex-Theists ever.
Wow. Didn’t know about the LoveSong connection either. To my way of thinking, the original Jesus Music evolving into today’s CCM “industry” is a microcosm of the original Church and what it’s evolved into today (at least here in the west). Without God’s saving grace, decay and corruption are inevitable. I really appreciate Korey’s comment about women knowing better than to trust their feelings once a month. We worship feelings and emotions in this culture. The monthly period thing is an obvious connection, but the same principle applies to us all. We’re all victims of our body chemistry to one degree or another. Sleep, exercise, and all the stuff we ingest (meds, food, drink, caffeine, sugar, etc.) affect our mood and outlook constantly.
Thanks so much for doing this!!! I have been producing Christian music for 20 years and I have seen so many of the artists walk away from Jesus. It has only drawn me more to him!
I was SO blessed by this! I cried and said amen many times and can’t wait to have my husband watch this. I kinda want to have my small group watch it too. 🤗
What a blessing to have brothers and sisters like you!
I’ve been in my season of doubt and unsureness a few years ago and I cried out to God to help me and now everyday my husband and I are growing closer to Him through His word and prayer and edifying content like this.
Thank you guys for being so open and for speaking such wonderful truths!
I will pray that He continues to bless your ministries.
@korey I was able to hear your father speak on Sunday at Church and it was so touching. You guys are all so inspirational and have had such an amazing impact on my life and me finding faith And to serve Jesus. Xoxo
This is a great panel discussion on a topic that many of us have faced (or are currently facing), myself included, though thankfully I have come out the other end stronger in my faith. I am truly grateful for my Savior, for my Christian upbringing, for my amazing supportive wife, for an awesome church family, and for God blessing me with a musical gift and allowing me the opportunity to utilize it as part of the music ministry in my church. It is really uplifting to hear insight and transparency from the Camps and the Coopers and from Alisa, those who have been in the very epicenter of the CCM industry. If these folks can go through all this even in the midst of being in the spotlight, there is hope for everyone! Christ can reach into your darkest night and pull you up!
This is one of the best videos I've seen on RUclips from any ministry. Powerful testimonies from all. Thank you all for being so real and transparent. Life is hard, God is good.
LOVED The Benjamin Gate in high school. Adie's voice is simply gorgeous.
Thank you for making this video, I was blessed by it. I will be praying for those that are called into the music industry. Its obvious they need prayer and support. 🙏🙏🙏
This was a wonderful conversation! Thanks for standing on God's Word, each of you!
I absolutely loved this conversation and there were so many great nuggets of wisdom shared.
"Don't make being on fire the goal"
"Christianity is true whether you feel it or not"
I feel like those words of wisdom could save so many people from falling away when they "just aren't feeling it".
I've also seen so many people fall away because of temporal things that go wrong in their life. If only we could have an eternal perspective and realize that those extremely momentary things don't matter in eternity by comparison, how much better would be be able to handle them when they happen?
14:20 The thing I love about what Korey said is that she invested time in studying theology. Deconstruction is good at its root, but it has to be done with a sincere desire to find the actual truth which usually means work. We live in a society with such insane amount to people's worthless opinions. If you are replacing traditional knowledge of Christianity with an opinion or fad theology, you have just traded one bad thing for another. Without the proper lens of scripture and writings, it is reckless to lead people through it.
Good point
What’s the difference between traditional knowledge of Christianity and fad theology
Thanks Alisa!!! I wasn't able to tune in live, but I finally sat and listened to the program. It was very informative and personally edifying. I am fairly new to your channel, and look forward to more. Thanks for sharing these discussions!
Love me gently, Lord, I'm hurting now. You said "Take your cross and follow me " I beg, please show me how to celebrate my weakness that in you I might be strong. When desperation grips my soul a moment seems to long ...
He replies I'll love u gently. Let me soothe your hurting now I've said pick up and follow- I'll do more than show you how. I'll turn this throne of brilliance Into a rocking chair. Crawl aboard, my precious child, And I will rock u there.
He truly comforts the broken 🙏
I left like listening to CCM due to lyrics being watered down to a point of secular fantasy. When you can listen to worship music and have to ask what exactly are we worshiping? There is a difference between good, bad and godly music. If the lyrics support doctrine that's good. If they contradict gospel that is bad. If they praise and give glory to God that is godly.
If it’s about ME, bad. If it gives glory to God then it’s Worship!
Listen to Bryson Gray - False Teachers
Sounds like hillsong, bethel and rlevation
EXACTLY!
I just watched all of this and I can't thank all of you enough for sharing. I've been thinking a lot about all these deconstruction stories and this conversation was just the ticket to address some of the issues I had on my mind. Many thanks to all of the participants and for all the great questions. This was truly anointed!
Thank you for this beautiful conversation. I didn't know Adrienne Camp was South African, whoohoo from a fellow South African!
I totally understand what Jeremy went through. Something similar happened to me also. The disbelief that God could give you something so beautiful only to take it away as swiftly. Such a heart breaking journey. Ty for sharing so candidly. God bless you.
Wow. This is so encouraging! The last twenty minutes focused on why they still believe, so good! God is so faith!
I'm so glad I stumbled upon this podcast. Jeremy Camp and Skillet are two of the many awesome CCM artists that have helped me through my early days in faith and walk with God. No wonder I still believe to this day, their music and songs have been planting seeds of truth from the Word of God. Truly, Our God is so good and faithful unto me.
I’m so glad you all emphasized the importance of the local church. So many people have had bad experiences with church so they just don’t go at all.
What an excellent discussion, thank you guys. I feel like a lot of this is true not only in CCM but also across Christian ministry where there is often a tendency toward professionalism over character that chews up young Christian ministers and churns them out at a similar rate. I think that many Christians should withdraw from this celebrity and online culture and serve their LOCAL churches. Your local pastor should the the most important theologian in your life!
I agree with almost every thing you said, except for the last part about the local pastor. Do not put the pastor on a pedestal, they are only human. I heard one say that he preferred to be thought of as an older brother and a Librarian of the Bible and Biblical resources. This is a good perspective that helps guard against being indoctrinated into teaching of man.
@@padillas4357 I can agree with that and agree that we shouldn't place unrealistic burdens or expectations on our leaders. My point was more to do with the fact that we should be looking more toward our local leaders who we can know intimately rather than our favorite author/pastors who we only know from a distance.
@@colinwyatt-goodall4632 Local teachers are definitely best. Then you can see what type a person they really are. It was the "most important " part that prompted me to give that piece of advice. Too many people think that their pastor is on a higher level then they can be and follow them like a little kid.
It sounds like more evangelists, pastors, etc need to get involved behind the scenes and mentor and disciple touring christian artists🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
It goes both ways. The artists also need to reach out.
They need to want it
This was one of the best podcasts, as someone who lived as a preachers kid, seeing behind the stage, it was welcoming to here from both couples about their behind the stage lives.
I guess I've recently been bothered by people who say they choose "their truth". There is only one☝🏻 Truth and we all can't have our own truth.
I even heard a non-Christian political podcaster say there is "the" truth and your opinion....
So we should all challenge ourselves to not use the phrase "my truth".
Not blaming anyone, but I heard it a couple of times from one of the guests.
Amen!
Absolutely.
Wholeheartedly agree.
You have said the truth! We are living in a time of relativism where there is no absolute truth about anything let alone God. Consequently the best people can come up with is "my truth and your truth". Jesus didn't offer Himself up so as to throw in just another multi choice option amongst the other "gods". He said "I am the way, the life and the truth" and it is only in relation to Him that truth can be measured.
When people say “my truth” it would bother me too... what they really should say is “my story”. When is the last time you heard 2 sides of the same story and you were bewildered by how different the stories were but they both see their side as the way it really happened.
This was a great talk. I took so much good from this conversation.
I especially love what Korey said about accountability I think that is a HUGE thing for those of us in the body of christ. And I love that her, her husband, Adrianne and Jermey have a leader to hold them accountable. That's amazing.
I also love the talk about emotions versus the truth. That was great!
Luke 10:27 💞
“He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Please bring Ed Cash from We the Kingdom to discuss this as he has had the OPPOSITE experience from these de-constructors. From a musician who couldn't stand the simplicity of CCM and what non-believers and egotistical people call "laziness" to a man that was absolutely humbled by God, remembered what the word said about coming to God from your heart with honesty above everything else, then dragged out of his addiction and set to build a Family band with amazing music and performances. God I pray I said these things right! Amen!
I didn't realize WTK was Ed Cash & co. He's been a favorite producer of mine for a while, as contrasted to Jason Ingram. Ed Cash rode the line well between clean production and raw material. It's always been simpler stuff, but well done nonetheless. His work with Dave Barnes is exemplary.
This discussion is EVERYTHING!!! 👌👌👌🔥🔥🔥 Thank you so much Alisa for making this happen. Said "Amen!!" too many times to count!!
I love what Coop said about folks rejecting parts of scripture that are “coincidentally” unpopular with culture. We never hear of someone coming up with something completely counter-culture during their deconstruction, unless they land in an actual cult. The aligning with the world is very telling.
Haha! Truth
It is very much due to what is comfortable and what feels good. Realizing that we WILL go through trials and storms, is very off putting to many, but Jesus says that it would happen. If we can't believe what he said, how can we serve him and worship him with our whole heart and life? If we can believe what he said about suffering, why can't we believe him when he said that we could do all things through him? That we would never be abandoned by him, even though we may leave him?
yes..."very" telling...
In my Christian faith I really do like to listen to Skillet i love their music, their love for Jesus and their message. I am a huge fan of Skillet.
Me too!
Love that truth "Ive tasted too much to walk away" ....
Me too. I'm a huge Korey panhead
@@berylcraig51 my new favorite quote now and forever
Seems my second son learned to appreciate God through Skillet.
So many mic drops in this one.
Korey, it is so evident that the Holy Spirit was working in and through you during this conversation!
Thank you all for sharing this conversation and your testimonies! Praise God!
Also, you all need to go record a song together now 😀
CCM never connected my soul to Christ in worship. After 30 years, since I was 20, it's always been hymns or more melodic songs. Marantha type music from the 70s really brings my soul up. It eas differentback then. I grew up in a rock n roll environment, not by choice. Listening to Pavarotti lifted me, Alice Cooper did not, and neither of those are worship - but at age 6 it was easy to tell how some music lifted the soul and spirit, and other music didn't just by the beats and tempo. I think ( most) CCM is positive entertainment but never has been worship for this soul. To this day I dont listen to it.
I listen because in my heart it’s for Jesus but I usually listen to the 70-80’s worship songs. They were so simple. Just Bible scriptures! Now it’s nice but it doesn’t do anything to my heart
Living in repentance - great point. Salvation is a process, not a once-for-all, done deal.
Alisa - as a pastor/family pastor for 20 years - I started in college interviewing CCM and ran into a lot of the things that you were talking about in this video. I want to thank this team for putting this together, we will be watching this video over a few weeks with our youth ministry.
I ask around because of a Good-Cause-Project to make the Internet less 'Messy'.
Point in case: Wanna hear more, perhaps? I promise it costs at no point money.
Block me the second i mention Money, ok?
Alisa great discussion! I was in a Christian band in the 70's touring Europe as part of teen challenge outreach. We would cover a number of Love Song's music. I still lead worship at the age of 70 in my church and love CCM and the newer worship music. Throughout the history of CCM the allure of the secular music world has always been an issue. I believe it comes down to that foundation that both John, Jeremy and their wives talk about. It was the power and love of God that I experienced at the age of 12 that pulled me back in when I strayed during my high school years experimenting with drugs and partying. That salvation experience and God's Holy Spirit within can carry us through those questioning periods of our lives.
Thanks for the conversation! *_"And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God.” -John 3_*
Dude I loved Benjamin Gate! And ofc Skillet and Zoegirl too!! Everyone in this ep has a stellar voice. So blessed and encouraged to hear you all sharing your faith and passion for Christ!
I remember when mewithoutYou (a favorite of mine) gradually went from sounding pretty legit (with some of the most brilliant lyrics ever) to full-on universalism. I don't blame them for writing what they were thinking through but I feel that Christian labels either need to have theological standards or they shouldn't exist.
Welllll, that ain't happening. Back in the early 90s the only few 'christian' record labels sold out to the secular labels and that was the end of that. Not to say they kept standards up back then either, I don't know. But at least there was a chance. Now, with self publishing, maybe there's a group that can form to promise to put out Biblically sound, quality music. One can dream.
Yeah 😀 I still dig their music, but I was at a festival where they had a “coming out” interview. At least one of them had long been an atheist and I think the frontman always had a vague spiritual bent, but they confessed they simply found a market in the Christian music industry, so they embraced it. The Christian music industry has no tolerance for people who don’t walk that line thematically, so it seems to be an environment rife for hypocrisy. If you’ve built a career on writing music with a specific theme, you can only change that if you’re willing to let it all dissolve (Gungor?).
@danielcollins7960 lolol that is some sociopathic weirdness
Man....I love Jeremy camp....listened to him for years but after watching I still believe I loved him even more.
Thank you , this so uplifting, and truth . And I had tears in my eyes. God is so faithful, I can totally testify to that. Amen.
I could listen to this all day! Praise God! One of my kids' favorite songs says, "I will not be shaken, I will not be moved, all my hope is in you... Even when the lions roar!"
At some point in the life of EVERY professing believer, their entire Christian world view is going to be tested regardless of whether or not they were raised in a Christian home. For those raised in Christian homes, the outcome of that testing is usually determined by what was taught and "caught" as kids. Teach & model the authentic Gospel to your kids and they'll recognize the counterfeit as adults. Teaching them some level of apologetics also helps
@Scott Krukowski It has nothing to do with it from the standpoint that God equips every believer, regardless of their background with everything "that pertains to life and godliness" to overcome temptation. But it also has everything to do with how the testing of each believer's faith will manifest itself. When I came to the Lord out of a lot of darkness 41 years ago at the age of 18, I couldn't understand why so many kids I saw raised in Christian homes struggled with their faith. But as the years went by I began to see that in many cases (not all) it was because the parents weren't teaching and living the Word of God to their kids. In other cases the kids became Gospel hardened for other reasons. It's not an excuse for these kids not to believe as adults but it is important to understand the WHY behind it. I've also seen amazing Christian parents and how they've raised their kids in "the nurture and admonition of the Lord" and their kids have "not departed from it" when they became adults. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...
Theology matters.
@@redhawkmillenium It really does matter - along with a vibrant faith walked out day by day...😊
@Scott Krukowski but then how do you explain the inclusion of scriptures that say "train up a child in the way they should grow..."Prov22:6 implying the importance of a good foundational understanding, if a child is taught for example that truth is not what you feel at the time, they'd be able to fight with the truth found in their foundation.
Basing what you teach your children, upon scripture, provides the foundation that is necessary for spiritual growth. If we do not show them where it is found, they will lack a basis for their beliefs, just as the world does. Not only do we provide a firm foundation, when we tell them what, where, and why God says what he says, but it teaches them the way they should go. They may follow, and never leave it, but if they do leave it,, they still know the truth, and how to get back on the path.