Saxophone Effects Pedals Part I: The Gear
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Going through the effects pedals I use with the saxophone. I put this board together a pedal at a time with a lot of trial and error. Hopefully I can help prevent some of those for other people watching. *There is no playing in this video, only descriptions of the setup. Check out Part II for the playing.*
Gear list:
• AMT Wi-5 wireless mic
• PepTone True Bypass Looper
• EHX Q-Tron Envelope Filter (older model)
• Keeley 4 Knob Compressor
• Eventide Pitchfactor
• MXR 10-band EQ
• MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
• Hardwire RV-7 Stereo Reverb
• BBE Supa-Charger power supply
Comments are welcome, and feel free to ask me anything.
Thanks!
www.deanmongeri...
This video and its counterparts have been so influential for me. 4 years after my first watch I’m back watching it for pointers 👍🏼😛
Can't tell you how many times I've come back and referenced this video in experimenting and building my own set of pedals and effects. If only someone developed a pedal like the Boss GT-10 for sax, most of our problems would be solved! Thank you!!
@FrictionFive Thanks, I'm glad it could help! The Wi-5 ships with a 12V/500mA power supply, but it doesn't require that much amperage. The unit only draws something like 140mA at maximum pull (I can't remember the exact figure, but I called and talked to Marty the AMT tech before I wired the board, and he actually tests the units using the old 12V/200mA supply). In fact, I researched every pedal's power draw to find the best way to wire everything up before I got started. Good observation, btw!
very interesting video, this is something I've experimented with for years with varying degrees of success.... However I just got rid of my all-in-one units and have finally started to build my pedalboard piece by piece, starting with that great Eventide pedal.
some very good ideas here, thanks for your input on this mysterious subject!
The older Q-Trons like this one have a huge gain spike, which makes for a lot of feedback issues. The compressor is put there to tame it by controlling both the overall shape and the output volume. A compressor before the autowah would remove a large amount of dynamic information that the wah uses to create the sound in the first place. Thanks, Dean
Thanks for sharing your insight & experience. Great videos & very helpful in setting up my own pedalboard. All the units you have used are very good quality & worth the investment. I'm very pleased with the sound & low noise of the result. I'm using the Q-balls Riddle in place of the Q-Tron. It seems to manage the input & output well & not need the compressor. I have a POG2 as the first unit in using a twin bypass unit to the riddle & the POG2. I'm using a DrJ sparrow as the DI box output which give me sound sculpting & boost for solo. Wonderful playing & sound in the videos! cheers Dean :-)
Pedals are simply the replication of studio effects or amps models. For a saxophone or cello or bassoon or whatever, it's awesome. I love to use my reverb and delay on bassoon. However, great guitarists usually use a vintage amp with their favorite guitar and studio effects, not pedals when recording. For live stuff, guitar, stomp box effects, small amp mic'ed the hell out of, wall of amp cabinets, going straight to the mixer. My brother is a music technology major at MWSU, I know these things.
@ithingdino62 The Pro DI is just a high quality DI to convert the signal to mic level to run to the board. This keeps the length of 1/4" cable to a minimum and maximizes sound quality.
Dude, great video and a sweet set-up... you have more patience than I... that's right, i'm one of those guys that bring his own amp...lol... Except, I always use a keyboard amp since the guitar or bass amp kills some frequencies and changes my sound.. IMHO...all the best!!
@MrBrannas They are good, however I prefer to have separate controls over reverb and delay than have them patch specific. Plus, I don't use that pedal all the time, so I need to have separate delay and reverb anyway.
Thanks! I can't really answer that, as I haven't tried the newer Q-trons. I used a low pass (LP) setting in Part II, but use a band pass (BP) setting now for most solo applications and LP for harmonies. I'm pretty sure Jeff was using the BP setting. A low to mid gain and mid peak is a good place to start.
Great rundown on the gear! Makes it easy to understand for the novice and expert!
Nice setup! You sure do like the blue lights, huh?
@hisf0rhilary I basically have everything below 125hz cut, a slight drop at 125, a slight boost at 250, another slight drop at 500, and flat until a roll-off starting slightly at 4k, then more on up.
I think you should add the EQ first in the chain and the compressor before the reverb, this will remove the noise from all the effects and with the compressor, you would still have the gain at the end or, keep the compressor after the Q-TRON but have a boost at the end.
great video; really helpful. thanks a lot!
Thanks! My complete setup is listed on my website.
@marcdreef Thank you! It's a Keeley 4-knob compressor.
Hey, if I may ask... Are the reverbs and delays of the eventide not as goo as the pedals you have? Is it necessary to have them separate?
Any time you double a voice you'll gain around 3db. You can adjust the mix to compensate for this. Best, Dean
@thesaxsoloist Thank you! I bought that pedal case from a company on eBay. I can't remember their name, but it should be an easy search. The case is pretty much as big as they get at 32" x 18". I'm using a large Gator Pedal Tote now (30" x 16") and it's a lot easier to deal with, considering it has pockets and a shoulder strap.
Good luck!
Dean
@APGR Thanks! Haha, it's all good. Whatever works!
I'm not really sure how to answer that. The one that sounds the best is really the closest answer I could give you. Anything with a good quality and reputation will be good, as most people look for transparency. The Keeley in this video would be ideal.
Plenty of analog delay pedals with tap.. this are two top contenders chase bliss tonal recall & anlogman ardx20.
@tuhsdxas It's a newer older one, if that makes sense. If you do a Google image search for Q-Tron you'll see it come up in several places.
Hi dean, thank you so mutch for sharing your knowledge.
Please can you write down the models of the electronic gear you are using...
thanks a lot
Really interesting! I have long used lots of this sort of stuff as a guitarist and am now looking to apply it to saxophone so thanks for your helpful explanation. Presumably, if I was using a wired microphone, I'd need a DI box or similar to match the signal to the effects. I assume the receiver on your wireless mic is doing that job for you. Anyway, thanks again and I really loved your playing on the second video.
Hi Dean, thankyou for these videos, you've done a great service by eliminating for us all the trial and error that you must have had to go through to get to this stage. I was wondering what you're opinion is of the delay in the pitchfactor pedal? Also wondering if you've made any additions/adjustments in the years since posting. Thanks again, and fantastic tone and facility on the horn man, these pedals wouldn't sound anywhere near as good without that tone!
Now that the Voco-Loco pedal exists, would you want to use that in your setup? I wonder if it would help the issue of you having a low signal going into the eq pedal?
Glad it helped!
Hey Dean! Amazing video!
Can you tell about how your presets is set up on the eventide?
- Cheers!
The light!!!
Hey Dean, great setup, giving me some great ideas. One question though, what flight case/rack are you using to mount all your gear? Hopefully you'll get this as this is an old thread... Thanks man!
Hey Dean, great set up, is there any chance you could send me/publish an actual list of the gear you have here?
Great set up and great video! Pretty close to what I hope to upgrade to from my Digitech vocal 300. The eventide, q-tron and signal chain are pretty much what I want planned, including a compresser/limiter! Thanks for the tip on balanced vs unbalanced signal, and thanks for the tip on removing the q-tron from the signal chain. Have you tried using the eventide followed by the q-tron?
Hey man! Great video, very useful. So basically, you are using the EQ to make up for the gain loss right? Does the DI also improve the signal level ? Thanks!
Curious if all those guitar effects pedals through a wireless condenser ever gives you noise interference? Or with all the gain staging those pedals have... it seems feedback could get scary and real quick at certain venues?
The reason I ask, is because I run my flute through a Boss octaver and TCE delay with no problems using a SM58. But when I use my miniature condenser (DPA4099) it's always on the verge of feedback, even if I'm using ear monitors without wedges.
Dig the setup! I've wanted experiment with a wah wah pedal and/or other various effects with in my rock band. Early attempts were not successful with my wired condenser mic. Would a preamp be required? Does the Wi5 receiver have a 1/4" out along with the XLR? Any tips or suggestions are appreciated.
Dean, thank you for the wonderful knowledge. I was searching for this sound for long time. I have one question. I play Shakuhachi (Japanese bamboo flute) and this flute's best quality is sound slides up and down.
So when I play through Eventide Pitch factor, sliding up and down on pitches, can I set it for the harmony to slide up and down with my playing ?
or the pitch will move by steps and even confused if I don't play right on A-440.
Because most of these types of effector are made not to slide up and down for singer's sake. i checked the manual but it doesn't say these thing.
Dean, what do you do to get the sound at the beginning and end of the videos? I'm more curious as to what the pedals you're using are doing to the signal rather than the actual piece of gear. thanks for the vids! very informative
hello dean ..very good job . do you have any tips for eventide setup about what bypass you use DSP or true bypass ? ( i think maybe true is the best but need soe other adjustments also ) and aux switch to go bacwards in bank selection ?
Hello Dean, I'm just starting to build my pedal board, and this video has helped me tremendously -- thanks for all the useful information and ideas! Question: I also have the Wi-5, and it seems that it needs 500mA current. But the BBE Supa-Charger only delivers 200mA. Even if you were to combine two outputs, it would still only be 400mA. How is it that you're able to power the Wi-5?
This is extremely helpful. Very well done. Quick question. Have you ever used distortion pedals with that microphone? Is it possible without feedback? I'm a fan of Sk(erik) walton. I've always been curious as to how he does it but there doesn't seem to be any info...
Hey Dean, thans for sharing the gear.
What do u think about using a Radial active DI instead of the Passive? Have you tried?
Thanks
Hi Dean, great stuff! I'm getting a rig together at the minute using a bunch of old guitar effects I've had lying around.
Just wondering what you do with the compressor? Do you find it useful, and what did you notice without it? And why there in the chain?
I have a nice MXR custom shop comp, I just hadn't considered using it.
Ta,
Jamie
Dean, could you tell me what settings you are using on the Keeley? I've been playing with a similar setup but when I try to add the compressor it seems to squish the sound too much. I'm mostly curious about the Attack and Clipping settings
Sounds great, looking forward to the new album!
Hi dean, first thanks for all the help, can you tell me why ou prefer a mono DI over a Stereo one?... your pedals can also work in stereo mode right?...
@deanmongerio
Hi! Thanks for the answer. Could you recommend me what gadget that I use to buy for my Soprano saxophone. I bought already the ProD2 since you answered me. What else gadget needfor me to buy to make the soprano Cool sound good? Thanks
@Saxysax05 Thanks! I used one of those as well for a while (actually a VX400, but for some reason they don't make them anymore. Same thing pretty much). As for the gear list, I can't post the link here, but if you go to Jazz-Sax(dot)com, search my name and there's an article where Eric has a full list with links.
Cheers,
Dean
Not sure you will get this or even respond...but...
Instead of the PepTone True Bypass Looper...what other device i could use to get the same results?
Hi,
I just played my horn through the Carbon Copy for the first time, and I noticed a big jump in volume when the delay is engaged. Did you notice this?
Hello! what is the use or function of the PRO DI for the sounds? Thanks a lot
Hello,
What is the best compressor to buy to use for my soprano saxophone?
Thanks again.
Hi there, any special reason for the compressor being placed after the q tron, i´ve saw many guys using them as the 1st pedal in the pedal train, what´s your opinion? thanks
What kind of qtron is that? I've been looking them up and haven't seen one that looks like that.
Thank you;-) can I use reverb pedal and sing or play instruments through it? in other words i'm looking for something that i can interconnected so i can sing and play flutes.My set up is lucas nano 600 with mixer build in but it does not have any effect, and i really want good reverb so i can perform live on my bamboo flutes. I want to use wet stereo reverb ,supernatural reverb,hall of fame or any other good reverb, but also need mic preamp to connect mic so I can play?.I KNOW MY EXPLANATION is not very clear, it is bit of science fiction for me ;-) Anybody can give me any advice please? thank you so much
This is awesome! This is such a beginners question, but I've been using a mixing board to supply phantom power to my clip on bell mic and to set the out to 1/4 inch. That's the only way I've known to bring it from balanced xlr to 1/4 inch I see that you don't have a board to convert to 1/4 inch and your sound great. How are you beginning your conversion?
The AMT receiver has both mic and line level outputs. Outside of the pedal board I have it set to mic and use an XLR, however with the pedals I switch to line level and use the 1/4" output. Very handy feature, but a similar thing can be done via a line transformer to bypass the whole mixing board setup.
Dean Mongerio Along those lines, if you use the 1/4" loQ instrument output through the effects pedals, do you then continue to a guitar amp, or use a DI box to go into a mic amp, or something else?
I have a phantom power bell mic also. The way that I use it is by plugging my bell mic into a small Nady phantom power supply then using a small cable and transformer to convert the xlr to 1/4 inch. That's just what I do because a mixing board is big and expensive.
do we have this effect on the machine
Show your set up please
could sax players use guitar pedals
Ronnie Roddy Jr YES
Yes. All my pedals for my rig are guitar pedals. I'm playing Tenor Sax, electric violin, flute, and Harmonicas through my rig (currently takes a 26" x 16" footprint). My new rig will take a 40" x 20" footprint, because I'll be adding stereo and some large footprint effects.
ok i see
would not TC helicon Voice live do the trick?
David Smith it sounds like garbage
I didn't hear what you sound like with all that stuff.
Check out Dean's (www DOT deanmongerio DOT com) website and debut record. If you're looking to blow with effects this dude has cracked the nut. Great job, DG!
0
Dude, nice showcase but you must learn your electronics... for example, about the delay: "It's fully analog, as a matter of fact the power is only for the light". WHAT?!?! Of course it uses power, analog effects do, only passive circuits do not use power. Also; "The only bummer with the analog delays, in comparison with the digital delays, is they don't have a tap tempo". MISINFORMATION. I own analog delays with vintage chips that have tap tempo (Diamond Memory Lane is one of them) and know many more that are like that. Please learn and then try do educate. Not bashing you here, it's nice to share the knowledge and making such video takes effort, but please read some more!
Interesting comment.
The analog delay is powered by the input voltage of the signal, not the power supply. The LED is powered by the power supply. Same with the Keeley compressor. I often use both without power. You can ask Robert directly if you'd like. And yes you can have an analog delay with tap tempo, but the tap tempo is powered by a digital circuit, therefore not *fully* analog. It would need to be powered by a power supply.
Best, Dean
Well, if that's the case then, I am WRONG, so please excuse my foul comment.
A passive delay then? I honestly haven't ever seen one, have no idea how this might work, and all the schematics and analog delay chip datasheets that I have seen seem to require voltage, usually more than 9V. Well, you learn something new every day...
About the tap tempo analog delays though, yes the tempo circuit might be digital, but the signal path is fully analog, so if that's what you're after, no problem. But they do require power, and I now understand that no-power is what you might be after?
jezuz12345
That's because Dean is incorrect (Sorry, brother - I never, ever do this, but this is just plain crazy talk and I don't need to verify with Keeley or anyone else.) A passive delay as is a passive compressor is an oxymoron ;) It just doesn't exist. C'mon, guys... However notion of a FULLY analog signal path that is controlled digitally is indeed real. In fact, it's nothing new. Quite the contrary as it is commonplace in modern design as well as marketing. Finally, the term analog has nothing to do with a circuit being passive or active. "Analog" is our way of shortening the term "analogous," which is what electronics are making an attempt at when producing, or in some cases, synthesizing sound. Hence, "analog keyboards" from which the term was born.
Anyway, it's cool of you to make time to do this for others. I mean no disrespect. It's just right is right and info should be accurate and useable.
Chris Buono "Analog" in the sense used and indeed meant in the video refers to the fact that the original analog of the voltage produced by the condenser microphone isn't translated into digital and then back again, meaning there are no AD/DA converters involved in the Q-Tron, the delay, or the compressor, nor when the Pitchfactor is bypassed with the "Relay Bypass" setting selected, as I have. The saxophone sound is very sensitive to the AD/DA conversion process, especially with the quality of converters in a stompbox pedal. The video is specifically aimed at saxophone players (as you may have noticed from the title), who inherently know squat about effects pedals, proper gain staging, etc. The information was presented in a way to make sense to them, not to people who have as impressive a bio as yourself in that area.
And while I do understand that "right is right", it doesn't really help any one of the hundreds of people emailing me with a 58 plugged into a Q-Tron and a DD-3 wondering why they sound terrible. Sometimes less is more, even if Yngwie doesn't think so. ;) Yngwie Malmsteen - more is more
Anyway, I do appreciate your comment and information.
Best, Dean
Dean Mongerio
You nailed it right there, brother. And, yes, I've seen the dreaded mic into pedal failure myself one too many times. It's the powering theory you stated that caught my eye. Judging by your thoughts above, you definitely know what's what. The way you chose to convey the idea of what is and what is not "powering" the delay and compressor is the controversy. But, hey, to each his own. Sadly, people up here put WAY too much stock into unfiltered information and don't appreciate the simple fact someone - you - volunteered your time to put something out there for people to chew on and learn from. Good for you.
Sorry to intrude, Dean. Your video helped me help a tenor sax playing friend. THANK YOU!