I think I know the reason for the constant turning engagements. It's kill frenzy. People are hard up for kills because that's where all the points are. If you can't catch the kill quickly then another teammate might do it instead and steal all your points. That's why people throw caution to the wind and recklessly turn after targets in a desperate attempt to get guns on them for the kill. Gaijin designed their system in a way that encourages focusing purely on kills and not on the actual tactics of aerial combat.
I wish that you get points when an enemy plane crashes or gets killed in your facinity. Think of the the closer you are the more points you get. So many times people dive to ground on purpose. Or you have a match were your team wins because you climbed and kept 3 guys busy only to find out you did not even fired your guns.
You probably dont give a shit but if you're bored like me atm you can stream all of the latest movies on InstaFlixxer. Have been binge watching with my brother lately xD
Which makes you wonder why they don't fly planes that are better at turnfighting, especially since it's common knowledge that certain nations' aircraft are built with that kind of combat in mind (the Japanese in particular, and the Soviets and British to a lesser degree).
I resort to turnfight mostly with my Japanese planes, because, as you said, it is the only type of combat many people know, you see 109s, LA-5s, YAK-3s, hell, even Thunderbolts trying to turnfight. When I fly my Spitfire FR, I normally use Hit and Run tactics, BnZ so to speak and I'll admit it might be my favorite tactic.
And if you dare tell them they are doing it all wrong suddenly you are under verbal attack and told you are no good as a pilot so don't be giving advice. So the Americans out of their own arrogance continue to be joke of WT as they refuse to learn.
Michael R. Foreman Kinda wrong there. First thing that happend in a realistic battle as an American (least for me) was I was told "dont turnfight, Boom and zoom only". Might have just been because of the plane I was using or the fact I was flying against Japanese.
I also think most people, although i guess less in WT, still has a 90's era mentality, full of propaganda in witch they think Russia only won because of winter and that all Soviet planes, tanks and guns are bad.
"Please stop turn fighting Russian aircraft at extremely low altitudes War Thunder pilots. You are better than this!" Oh tell that Yak pilots turn fighting Zero's and Ki-43's.
Japanese planes are super OP because no one play that nation. I know it first hand because i use Japan as a money maker. The thing actually its not that Japanese planes are OP because im pretty sure those planes are performing very close to the reality back then including the allied planes. However the problem is that those planes never faced allied planes in a 1vs1. So thats the unfair thing i see and War Thunder devs will never implement a realistic matchmaking were a nation outnumber the enemy nation because people will cry a lot about it.
If I may play devils advocate, the way the map objectives workout always plays into the hands of the soviets. If you try and climb to engage the high alt yaks and la-5s the ones down low will kill all your ground units and win. If you engage down below the soviets that climbed will wreck your team. I don't see this problem too much on german vs soviet maps because there are very many ground units, but on all other maps this has been a persistent issue.
I thought it was like that in real life? I mean you just heard magz say russians like the Pe-2's and IL-2's better than bombers so russians are always at low altitude but you are correct,the map meta is really bad right now
This is kinda true, but USA always had many bombers. If they stop going for bases and actually go for the objective targets like the pill boxes or tank columns, then maybe the sovjets need to deal with the bombers.
Wellingtons are actually pretty good at throwing off the aim of attackers, although, with their speed and roll rate, it only manages to buy time against not-so-good players. Which is already good !
You're right, Magz. You can have a team climb to 20000-30000FT but what then? Will Soviet fighters intercept bombers, fighters at 20000-30000FT? Based on my experience (+1 year of RB battles), I have to say no. As you know, 99% of all game related objective are located on the ground or at medium altitude (10000 to 15000FT). And as you are fully aware of - there are no (besides special 'events') Air Realistic Battle: - bomber escort missions - fighter escort missions - game modes that promote different styles of game play Since closed beta, Gaijin Entertainment promoted a play style conducive to Soviet planes. This is a simple observation based on the lack of game modes that could promote different styles of play for the games 4 factions. Maybe if Gaijin added additional modes, besides Alternate History where only US/UK vs USSR (No Germany vs Japan. No US/Japan vs Germany/USSR why is that?), we wouldn't have 4 minuet games. Because what we have right now is biased match making. The current meta in WT has a lack of diverse missions favoring a faction with the best low altitude performance. AKA. Eastern Front (as you have explained).
I have to strongly disagree with the "promoted a play style conducive to Soviet planes". This is literally another "Russian Bias" comment. It's not. There's 13 players on each team as a startpoint. They climb up straight to the enemy, Russians will be above axis and under Japan. This happens because little people do actually side climb with axis and capitalist country planes or stay at the borders keeping a high speed if it's a Soviet fighter. All I do is to keep an energy advantage over the enemy and try to avoid all situations against my aircraft. As a Yak 9u and 3p pilot, I often die by IAS exceed because while German planes or p63 and Spitfire lf versions, Russians may have a 30m/s climb rate and great MER at low altitude. I just wait til everyone has gone low to climb more and start spiraling everyone both in my 109s and my yaks. People who side climb either die killed by speed exceed, killed by another sneaky player who also side climbed or get nothing or more than 3 kills. I'm absurdly bad with 109s but at the same time I'm efficient cause I always try to avoid any situation that puts me in danger. I never face Yak 9Us because these have 1000hp more than 109 G2 tropical and still can kick hard at 5k. The F-4 instead is a good matchup for yak 9u as it is faster than g2 tropical and would get the Russian by kinetic energy advantage. Meanwhile in Il2 Sturmovik you may get at 6k with your spacefire and patrol the skies until a couple of Messerschmitt appear and a combat at 6k starts at 6k and ends at 6k. It's totally different, you don't need to go down trying to get an extra energy boost because there's not much enemies around, maps are big enough and there's no ticket bleeding as far as I know.
Brilliant timing, Magz. I was just trying to record footage for that video on you and I found out that Gaijin needs to fix their shit and their servers because everybody's playing with a PL of anywhere from 15-30%.
Very well done with the tips in this video, In my opinion there is a problem with some youtubers that point out these problems and they are hateful and insulting with the way they come across. This was very well done and I did not see you single out anyone pilot, call them any names.. or just in general insult anyone .. Your videos are always a breath of fresh air into this very hateful community! I wish you uploaded more but I understand why .
I know that you won't do well if you play to your enemies strengths, But if you play like you should either the enemy team will be wiped before you get into combat or it will be 1vs10
I only just started playing this a couple of days ago and the penny just dropped that instead of doing horizontal turns I just worked out by your style that turning in a climb like an Immelman would give some height and there fore some more energy to catch the guy. Of course!!!! You are going to lose a lot of speed either way so you might as well get some height while you are doing it. Ive been practicing boom and zoom in my He-100d. Man I love that plane. Anyway thanks for the advice, thats a revelation. Thanks for the uploads. They are helping me improve massively.
I agree with you fully Magz, however, there is a thing to be said about climb rates and airfield-airfield distance favouring lower altitude combat. Sure those P-51s could've climbed a bit longer and BnZ'd you guys. But that's not a very effective tactic if a quarter of your team is dead due to being turnfighters themselves and staying low. You can get a few good attacks off, and if you fly well, you'll kill one or maybe even two, but after that the rest has equalized or skyrocketed while you were fending off an attack.
I was actually abused and told to disconnect the game after I side climbed on the left and didn't attack head on below with my team at 2000m. I was in British Hellcat. This behaviour has occurred on almost every map when fighting Russian and axis forces. Not every time but a few. Maybe you could do a video on side climbing in allied planes as its not happening enough ingame.
And this right here is the explanation why Russian bias exists. It's not that Russian vehicles are overpowered, in fact, most of them are balanced just as well as other nations aircraft, i.e. some perform very, very well and some are just utter garbage. However, the big thing that makes Russian aircraft so strong is that they perform well in the playstyle new players usually tend to. Not climbing to high altitude and turnfighting whatever gets into their crosshair first. I do admit, when I started out, I was playing like this as well, no matter what nation I played. I started grinding American aircraft in AB and when I reached T2 I started playing RB, trying to apply the same fighting style I used in AB. Going to the biggest fight and trying to turn with the enemy. I reached the P-38G and had not much fun with it, I was outturned by the British, Japanese, Russians and Germans usually employed B&Z tactics anyway. I got killed a lot and then it dawned on me that I had been playing the entire American tree wrong. I watched videos and learned B&Z tactics and, most importantly, I learned the most crucial skill in War Thunder: Patience. You need patience when climbing to altitude, need to be patient in order to not dive and lose all of your altitude on the first aircraft you see, but rather keep your altitude and pick targets that are easy to take out and leave you with the advantage. You need patience to think ahead in RB, plan your moves, to assess the situation and to use your ammunition well. And the important thing is, every nation will require patience at some point. Even early Russian jets need to climb and do not perform like their late prop counterparts. This is why I recommend American planes to new players. Because they will teach you to fly them right. By punishing you for doing anything that they are not built to. Turnfighting? You'll get shot down. Low altitude energy fighting? You'll get shot down. Ground strafing in fighters? You'll get shot down. But if you bother to climb to altitude and dive on your enemies and going back to altitude, even if you didn't kill the target, they will stop punishing you and start giving you some of the easiest and sweetest rewards you can gain in War Thunder. Tl; dr: Russian Bias only exists because the playstyle suits new players, while the playstyle of other nations don't (to that degree). Learn to play Americans. Be patient.
I have a theory for that, but it's about a wider question - why allied teams are so terrible. From personal experience 90% of allied teams that I got in had no clue what they are doing. And I assume that is because they are Allied teams. Lots of people have "America! Fuck yea!" syndrome, so US attracts plenty of people who assume they fly a superior nation with superior planes, and instead of getting better they demand developing to switch ballance. And sadly, developers oblige.
The problem with this hypothesis is it doesn't explain the British pilots, Only American pilots. It also don't explain the German pilots that get into low altitude turn fights with Russian fighters at low alt while flying 190's. It's not just a national thing, I kind of thing happens with every nation at the moment. Pilots playing to the strengths of there enemies then crying OP when they loose. Now in some cases yes the aircraft does have a potential performance issue. . . so why hand them a further advantage by fighting by there rules?
Nope its the same problem at tier 5 Sabres turn against migs and the reason is they are too lazy to climb. Im the only one who climbs and i get reported for actually play a jet like a jet. Ends up in me in a 1v7 fight never works
I think the answer is very simple, people like the game, but they don't know history, therefore, they don't research, and tend to do what they shouldn't. Add this to years of "propaganda", thinking that Russian planes and tanks are inferior and winter won the war, and the get angry when reality doesn't correspond to what they believe. Some people who know history, like Magz and others, know in what each nation is better and worse at.
no, this isn't on gijin. you can't blame peoples stupidity on the devs. they even put out videos telling people exactly how to use these boom and zoom allied aircraft.
+MagzTV True, it's common for every nation and pretty much all online games in general. My theory is only about why teams that have US in them so terrible, but the point is pretty much the same - "It's not us who are stupid, it's planes that are broken". I'd agree with Flavio's opinion, but I say the problem is not in lack of knowledge, but in denial of any knowledge that isn't fitting their imagination. Sounds like I am a smartass ofc, but... Well, maybe I am, but nobody even tried to prove their claim of that.
Very good video. Keep em coming like this. I have just gotten back to WT from a 3 patches long break and have gotten a little rusty so. Just started learning japanese and russian planes now. Haven't really played them so much before.
Ehm, Magz, nice advice. But what to do next? Climb and basicly not engange soviet planes? If pilots on both sides will do what they "should", they will never meet + maps are so small to be able to climb to effective alts.
End of the video, Climb, Boom in, Fire at high speed then zoom back to altitude. Do not turn back if you miss until you are safely back out of the range of the targets guns (and preferably several km away) rinse and repeat. This is how the Mustang and the Typhoon where designed to fight. *"they will never meet + maps are so small to be able to climb to effective alts."* - If this was true then how to all the best pilots climb to effective alts and do exactly what I have just described?
MagzTV Cause best pilots have in teams also "stupid" ones...so when Allied team can do what they supposed to do every match you will find Japaneese or Soviet player who will, sooner or later try to climb or try to chase. So then is when "best pilots" seal clubs the rest. For example, Ki-83 have best performances at 9 000 metres. How many players will climb there and how many other players he will meet? I think, WT (at least at RBs) need bigger maps. It´s nothing against your advices. But majority of the maps are so small, that fast attack plane can kill what he need, low altitude soviet fighters will cover them and enemy team will just climb, cause they cannot enter and exit the "dogfight" when they want.
You don't have to climb to your optimal altitude in a boom and zoom fighter, Just to an altitude higher than your enemy. Sorry mate but your "They wont see one and other" argument doesn't hold water.
Do you think it would be good for Gaijin to add a few high-altitude US/Britain vs. Germany maps? Something where both teams get an air spawn at 25-30k feet to simulate western-front dogfights better?
It's just the Meta of the game, people dont want to spend 10 minutes climbing to 30k feet when an enemy was spotted on the deck 2 minutes into the battle.
Tiffie can turnfight a Yak or a La if it needs to. I've done it several times, you just need to manage your engine power and flaps a bit more than usual, but it's got the elevator to turn and burn if it needs to. And Spitfires of course just start salivate the moment anyone at low altitude rolls over to one side.
allied teams as a rule struggle against Russian and Japanese teams because of their low altitude performance. the difference is in response to allied teams getting whipped in most matches with these two countries is lots of Japan's fighters getting their b.r. increased to a absurd level (ki-61 II @ 5.0) where Russia's fighters keep the advantageous low b.r. ( yak 3p 4.7 and yak 9p 5.0).
Don't know about most people but I'll be honest mate, but without your channel I'd be much much much worse then I currently am now, and at best I'll consider myself a little above average. First RB battle of mine? in a 109 E-3 vs Spitfires in Britain. Would've done horrible if not for things you said about Spits and 109's (And the fact that I had a tonne of patience for that mode then). So for why people turn fight in not turn fighters? Probably a combination of lack of patience and/or just a lack of knowledge. Not much of a reason/excuse but it's all I can think of.
Very good video! I especially appreciate that you put the information into a historical context, to make it more easy to understand why the flight models behave the way they do :) This way the information is more likely to get stuck in people's brains ^^
i understand not to turn fight at low altitude, but the sad truth is that even if a yak is at high altitude, say, 5k-6k meters, they don't lose all that much preformance. Yes, they are worse of at high altitude and what these kinds of player don't seem to get is that even if they take their American aircraft to a proper altitude, that does not mean they are untouchable.
true, but, the yak/La-5 can out climb any U.S plane and side climbing for U.S planes are so meta now that any B/Z aircraft, unless they have an air spawn like the p-47, will have no chance. Yaks/ LA-5s will always be above any US plane and even if they don't have the best preformance up there, they will win.
Magz, you had a couple instances in this video where a plane flew into your crosshairs at very close range, but you didn't fire. Was this just that you didn't react fast enough, or was it a deliberate decision?
Those La's and Yak's are great on the deck, but they also aren't slouches at 4-5k meters either. They only have very minor flaws, no serious weaknesses in the War Thunder meta.
Well That isnt entirely correct. LA-5s suffer significant climb rate drop after passing 3000m. However the altitude where the advantage for western airctaft is definitive is above 7000m. The problem is getting to such altitude, and after you get there all the enemies are going to be 3K below you. so you can engage in a BnZ from there. However a good pilot in a good plane will avoid your BnZ to the point where you loose all your energy advantage. in the end combat between two experienced pilots like this can drag on for a long time and will ultimately end only by intervention of another player or the lack of fuel or ammo.
The P51 that you were fighting performs almost as bas as you at high altitude. That Allison doesnt do too well at altitude. It kinda starts dying out at 4-4500m
This is true on so many levels, I dont know why people still do this even after basically every youtuber telling them exactly the same thing every time
There’s not many players who fly like your opponents in the games I end up in. They like to fly back and forth beneath me. Not sure what they’re aiming to do but it forces me to dive away
So lets see if we can find a performance drop more significant with measure of 250m, 2500m, 5000m and last 6500m with a la5fn vs a spit with the same br. lets see how fast they can do 5 turns and stay at this altitude. Lets see if the higher we get the spitfire gets more of an advantage..... can bet you that apart from the unable to use WEP above 3500m ish the engine won't drop down in performance faster then say the spit.
I know you made a mistake earlier saying that you were fighting as the Germans, but now that you mention it I had completely forgotten that the Germans have a captured La-5FN, even though I have one myself (which should tell you how rare they are, though to be fair it's a bit pricey for what you get in terms of golden eagles, the most common captured planes on German teams being the Yak-1B and P-47D, though I've seen a handful of captured Il-2s lately as well for one reason or another). Its role on German teams is...interesting to say the least, as they seem to bridge the gap between a Bf-109F (or an early Bf-109G) and a Fw-190A, having the nose-mounted firepower and almost but not quite the climb rate of a Bf-109, with the low-altitude performance of the Fw-190A, and better maneuverability than either of them below 5 km.
A particular problem, at least for American aircraft, is the issue of climb rates. Pretty much across the board, putting all your stock into altitude will still not necessarily be enough to outdo all the other, faster climbing aircraft you might meet. Particularly going against the Russians, I find that the only way to gain a significant altitude advantage is to actively avoid engaging for as long as possible, purely for the purpose of climbing. By the time I have the advantage, the team, whether they've chosen to climb or not, have at some point met an enemy aircraft that either has better position or an energy advantage and got shot down. At best, I might have a couple of teammates left, but we're vastly outnumbered and our advantages are difficult to use. Another issue is one inherent to Boom 'n Zoom tactics: Time. As I said before, the team is often dead before I can engage if I wish to do so from advantage. However, even if I get to do so early enough, I'll need my aim to be spot on and generally also get a little lucky to deal with an enemy in one pass. Compare that to turnfighters, which generally grab on, force the enemy to evade, and push until they get the kill, and I'm sure you'll see the problem. I'll freely admit that I'm not that great a pilot. However, while I may not be doing everything right, I at least know and strive towards what I'm supposed to do, yet continually get the same results: Failure.
I don't understand why the higher BR yaks and La's can outperform germans at 6-7km high altitude It usually happens to me (altough I'm kind of a noobish player). In the past 2 years russians beat me at high altitude 8/10 times
Because if russians stay low, you have to engage them on low altitude, you can't just stay at 6000m climbing, you can still boom and zoom but once you drained all your energy you both are at low altitude. And I have seen a lot of russian climbing up to 5000m and crying because their plane didn't perform well at that altitude
Totally agree. I would also add that when I climb to 6000 m I usually see no one, just one dick at 7000 m which I actually don't see until the last second of my 10 minute match. And that 10 minutes was climbing. Or in other scenario, most players that didn't climb already get their kills and I am left with bomber hunting but usually I find that bomber after another 10 minutes, sitting on the runway. I don't even... this is so lame... If only Gaijin would know what metagame is and how to create fun, balanced, engaging game modes.... but they clearly are not Blizzard.
magz is it possible for you to fly out the f86 f25, but instead of talking about the f25, why not tell us the history behind the CA27 (or Avon sabre as it's also known)? sorry if I sound like a prick asking, but I thought it would be an interesting topic
the progress from the la5f to the la5fn might not be noticed at first but let me tell you: i used to hardly get 1 kill with the la5f but i got 2 kills and 1 assist on la5fn
Spitfires weren't build for low alt and the russians hold no superiority on deck. But russians tend to be numerically more fighters since there is a lot more variety in groundstriking aircraft in allied teams which causes the russians most of the time to hold an overwhelming numerical superiority in fighters, may that be on deck or on hight alt, the only thing that high alt changes is that you are a little bit more immune to swarming. P39s and P63s outturn Yaks and LAs on deck, so does the Spitfire, P40, Bf109, everything tier 2 and 1, F6F, and Simulator Battles in given situations even more including early 190s, Typhoons and P47Ds... The argument that russians simply are superior on deck is idiotic...
They put themselves in a situation where they try to run and guarantee death or try to turn and hope the guy on you can't aim. A 30 round burst of 20mm's going into their plane in generally their outcome.
Everything you said in this video is 100% accurate. However, there are a couple of issues. Firstly this game has been specifically designed to promote and reward the style of combat that benefits the Russians design scheme. This is done through the size of the map, the type, location, and placement of bomb targets, and the duration of the game. It has chased almost every player who does not conform to the low altitude brawling type of combat into either sim or to other games. Secondly, and you can verify this with actual pilot handbooks and documentation (this is related to American aircraft specifically) almost every aircraft in the American tech tree has been stripped of 20 percent of its performance. Just to give one example, the pilot handbook for the p51d states (praphrased) that a cruise climb to altitude is to be done at 80 percent power holding over 3000ft per minute climb. And that is just one of the American aircraft. Other huge issue examples include the Bearcats....
... Vertical stabilizer that has literally been twisted 6degrees to the left that induces HUGE yaw issues at speed if not pre trimmed for. Yes players in this game do not use high altitude aircraft correctly, but some of those high altitude aircraft have had the performance that would make them more enticing to fly at altitude castrated.
Hey Magz, I had a turn fight at low altitude with a aA6M5 and a spit in Sim..Both where able to outturn me..however I did not die I just out ran them...my question is :Is this normal?Thanks Billy
Honestly I think people just don't have the patience to properly combat most Soviet fighters. It's much easier to turn into them and hope that they mess up their turn in an overshoot then to run and open the gap for the next 5 minutes (at which point the game is probably over). Honestly though, play as Russia and you'll see them commit the same crimes versus the Japanese.
I agree because soviet plane superior thats why gaijin recently buff soviet planes because its historically accurate. We nerf western capitalist pig they are bad design and had plenty flaws no good energy retention like the superior soviet planes, so we nerf their 50cals and 20mm we also nerf energy retention of planes because they got bad aero dynamics and their merlin engine are not good like those we had on our yaks3, la5 and la7 and they can catch up with capitalist pig in high altitude p51D can be overtaken by la5 in high altitude because it has better engine performance in high altitude than that capitalist pig merline and its written in sekrit dokument! Dont believe on western capitalist when they say our plane have bad horse power and our plane wings made out of wood! Western capitalist pig propaganda and lies! So we will buff em for they are made out of stalinium and Horse Power of its engine are good made in Russia you know and its historically accurate trust me komrade!
Well the Japanese offers a better fight. Same with the Spitfires. They will offer a better fight against the Russians. In general, people have no patience for high alt combat. I have more matches where I end up Boom and Zooming P-51Ds in my A6M5 because they do not want to climb and compared to the speed I am going at the moment in the A6M5 its not fair for them. Because I have more energy and I am in a far superior plane in those situation vs the P-51D. Allied teams hate climbing b/c its a waste of time. When a entire allied team climbs, I have had matches like that where we would destroy the entire Russian, Japanese or German Teams like they were nothing. People do stupid stuff and they call German, Russian or Japanese Bias. Well tbh its its not the country is more biased towards. Its because of you doing something your plane wasn't suppose to. This game needs to force people to do more high alt combat. If that was the case. WT would be less Russian or German or Japanese biased. Matter in fact those planes lots of idiots call "OP" most of those time those idiots brain are under powered. I have had matches where a idiot in the P-51D would engage in a slow turning engagement against a Zero. When I shoot them down they either call me a hacker or Japanese biased, same for Germans (in different situations) and Russians. PFFTTTTTT Too many dumbasses thinks this is how you fly a plane. If this was real life and they did that, they would have been helping the enemy pilots become aces after 1 combat flight.
+MasterofBlitz they cant catch and get close to US fighter since they are much faster than them thats why youll see most of the gun cam of the US in pacific are records of US fighter shooting US planes on deck tree top level because they try to lure them on dog fighting them. And not all p51D victories are on high altitude since bomber will do on mid altitude like 8-9k feet to drop they load it highly depends on the weather. Most dog fight happen bellow 6m and most of p51D kills are at that level. Im not making this up its the truth look for Allied Fighter gun cam. Gaijin has remove what makes US planes good its speed and acceleration i know US fighters are not good since they are heavy but well armored and sturdy well constructed. In game p51D is horrible ive notice my p51D which already ace it cant outrun soviet planes that is much lower tier than me like yak3 and la5 at deck level even in high altitude at 22k they can catch up with me since they got better acceleration if i slight
Most American planes were meant for high alt. As you need high alt for a boom and zoom. Without any alt, American planes were useless to Boom and Zoom. I have a P-51D (D-5, D-20 and the D-30) and I still enjoy flying them. I feel like the higher they are the better they are to the Russians. Russians dominate the lower alt.
+MasterofBlitz slightly angle my plane downwards to get extra speed and acceleration its not even even a good idea its even worst because it also make the yak and la5 gain speed and able to get in a shooting distance to shot me, which impossible in real life since la5 till early model of la7 is deemed a failure due to its engine to be under powered and have severe overheating issue, but not in the game infact the p51D had the overheating issue ingame which is not the case in real life that supposed to plague soviet plane.p51D only had those overheating issue if its radiator are hit. Its even more hilarious and utter bullshit that the la5 to early la7 and yaks except those beyond 1945 production had wooden wings that able to withstand 20mm and spark, far mor worst using 50cal which should snap and shred those wings in real life if it got hit. I mean look for german fighter plane gun cam in easter front and youll see those wooden wings broke to pieces when hit by german guns and mg
I fly a BF-109 G-2 most of the time when playing on IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, and i try very hard to boom and zoom as you say, but eventually i bleed so much speed that the altitude i gain from it is close enough for the russian to shot me down. How do i conserve my energy better? I cant do shit against them i feel like a complete noob.
The thing is, even when you Boom and Zoom Russian fighters in good Boom and Zoom fighters, their ridiculous UFO performance will enable them to catch you. At least it was like that back when I played the game in the patch 1.3 to 1.4 days. I had situations in which I was diving on 2 Russian fighters who were both just taking off their runway in my FW 190 A-5 (back when it still was a tier 3, BR 3.3 plane). I hit one with my 20mm, only sparks, I don't turn, I don't waste energy, I just try to Zoom away as fast and in as straight of a line as possible, flying in excess of 600 km/h. Then I look back and see that those guys, who have been airborne less than 20 seconds at that time, are already catching up to me. I couldn't outrun them, I couldn't outclimb them. The same thing happened to me when I flew Russian fighters. I fly around in my half spaded Yak-3, at less than 1000 meters altitude, a P-47 tries to Boom and Zoom me, diving from about 4000 meters. I evade, the guy does everything right and keeps running in a straight line instead of turning. I do an energy guzzling, horizontal (because I was pretty low after my evasive maneuver, too low for another Split-S) 180 degree turn, not really expecting to do much but keep an eye on him, but then I notice that I'm already matching his speed after he only was 1.7 km away. I effortlessly caught the guy and shot him down. I was so disgusted and felt so dirty that I stopped playing Russian fighters after that, with the exception of the Mig-3, which was the only non-UFO that was challenging to fly in the Russian tech tree back then.
Eheh sorry man, but the Yak-3 and Yak-9U were both faster than the Fw 190 or the P-47 on the deck. Don't go in a straight line. Immediately put the plane in a shallow climb to get back up to altitude. If you stay in level flight for too long the Yaks will catch you, especially with their great acceleration.
@@ryanjonathanmartin3933 Did you read what I wrote? They had just taken off the runway and I came out of a several km high dive and it took them seconds to match my speed. That was definitively unrealistic nonsense. I doubt that even a Me-163 rocket plane had that kind of acceleration seconds after taking off.
@@ryanjonathanmartin3933 I don't know. I haven't played the game in 5 years or so. I heard Russian planes are not as overpowered as they used to be anymore though, but I have no personal experience to confirm that.
At that T3 and T4 the more powerful Russian planes (e.g. yak 3p, yak 9) out climb regularly out climb most american fighters (p38s p47s, p51s) outperform them in both speed and maneuverability. With short range maps Russian planes will fight long before poor engine performance is an issue. Add in the wonky long range radar in RB, its the meta that favors Russian planes a lot more than the habits of pilots themselves. Why engage at low alts? Because you're in a fight before it ever gets to high alt.
Those are actually low-speed, leading edge slats. In 1940, they were incredibly revolutionary. Germany was the first to use them in their Bf 109's and they were slats that pop out of the wing at low speed to increase lift. Russia saw this and copied the idea with their Lavochkin series of fighters. If you look at jumbo jets today, a lot of them have leading edge slats as well to increase their lift for take off and landing when they're moving at very slow speeds.
Leading edge slats, They auto deploy increasing the wing surface area during turns to improve turn speed and stability. Well that's the simplified explanation anyway. There kind of a genius design for the time.
yeah, those are combat flaps. they help your turning but you kinda have to know what you are doing. I still can use them because I leave them on sometimes lol
What's a good tier 2-3 German aircraft for learning how to fight in RB? I played my first RB match yesterday in the fw 189 and well i didn't die but i only got 11 hits no kills. Any suggestions?
Use the E-3 first, it wont punish you for getting in to trouble as it is the most nimble 109. If you have problems killing, but not with the Boom and Zoom then go for the fw190A's they have many guns and can roll well.
Well thats the revolving door effect att work. Experienced players look at BR and matchmaking f.ck ups never getting fixed and ... leave. New players come in cause *shiny new planes* and dont know the first thing about flying them. And... thus 3+ years of Wthunder and we have a large percent of the community that is clueless. The revolving door keeps on turning.
I do try to run but that damn yak's with their damn cannons just chew the hell out me before I can WEP the hell out there. I'm not a shitty pilot I stay about 25,000ft and look for bombers and fighters who are not paying attrition then I boom and zoom, but I get worried when we are fight the Russians because I know we are going to lose. With Germans they are fun to dogfight with because they fight fair or ones i have with I mean.
Is warthunder still good? I haven't played it in months maybe even a year and the last time I heard about it was with a huge fuck up with Gaijin that got everyone upset
1. They see you coming almost every time. Ow yea because of giant red markers. WT favours the turn fighter far more with its game mechanics than that of a BnZer. I miss the day when you could approach an enemy from high 6 and unless they actually looked at you, you didn't show on the "radar". 2. If most allied planes tried to make it to Alt where they are effective the russians for the most part will be 2 steps ahead in the climb against them. Because for a long time and for a still a number of them the russian stats were/are "higher" *cough russian bias cough* while many allied counter parts were sub realistic stats by a not insignificant amount. 3. If the game modelled vehicles in this game 100% accurately most of the russian stuff would suffer from serious issues majority of the time due to the poor build quality they had. All in all i gave up on WT a long time ago and moved onto other better flight games because gaijin really stopped caring about making a great game that would encompass all types of gamers. Weather it be from arcade to sim which is a shame cause it could have been a great maybe the best air craft fighter game if they had really wanted. Now after all this time i still look at it and just get sad at what it could have been.
I make sometimes the misstake myself but only in the crossair becouse when it has speed it can turn sharp but not for long and i get killed when i get to greedy with it, but it is my loved aircraft plz make a vidz about it plz. Mfg. Lancelot and Greetings from Germany Magz
I have a theory for this the reason pilots make these decisions is because a few things 1. Turn fighting most times when people think of ww2 dogfights this is what they think they don't think of other means of combat with piston fighters besides this. 2. Numerous half-truths many have heard about how bad the first Russian planes were but either don't hear or don't care to know about how good the later one were meaning they often put bad on what is in reality a good plane. 3. Stereotypes the gear from most of these nations carry a stereotype and people often apply that 4. Refuse to learn people rather throw these self at something several times then complain rather than see what they did wrong
I've been on the beta for over a month. Just haven't made a video on it yet. Never seems to be anyone on when I am there, Don't really want to do a video fighting AI.
Why people turnfight soviet fighters at low altitude ? because the same planes can outturn allied fighters at their "own" altitude too ! So why climbing so high if you get the same result at low and still get the chance to kill one or two ground targets in the meanwhile ?
Honestly the P-51A has a little chance against LA-5FN. He might run for a while but the LA would catch him anyway + those guns are able to snipe up to 1km with no problem.
Which is exactly why he shouldn't be at low altitude with the La-5FN in the first place. Dicing from a higher altitude the P-51a can exceed 850kph without ripping, The La-5FN rips at 720kph.
***** you must be one of the idiots who carry a full fuel load on it. or you just read the stat card. this thing on minimum load climbs almost as good as the P-51D (minimum load being 45 minutes after engine upgrade)
not fully upgraded it takes forever, 10 degreese pitch up only gives 150 knt ias so you must be one of the idiots who assumes everyone has stuff spaded and cant take a joke
***** you must be taking a full fuel load. I spaded this thing day 2 of its release. and flown it a ton since. it is pretty good at climbing. just not with full fuel load. you have to take lower loads. because the way I climb. I'm 15 degrees climb with an average of 150mph.
I think I know the reason for the constant turning engagements. It's kill frenzy. People are hard up for kills because that's where all the points are. If you can't catch the kill quickly then another teammate might do it instead and steal all your points. That's why people throw caution to the wind and recklessly turn after targets in a desperate attempt to get guns on them for the kill. Gaijin designed their system in a way that encourages focusing purely on kills and not on the actual tactics of aerial combat.
I wish that you get points when an enemy plane crashes or gets killed in your facinity. Think of the the closer you are the more points you get. So many times people dive to ground on purpose. Or you have a match were your team wins because you climbed and kept 3 guys busy only to find out you did not even fired your guns.
You probably dont give a shit but if you're bored like me atm you can stream all of the latest movies on InstaFlixxer. Have been binge watching with my brother lately xD
@Jad Luciano yup, I have been using instaflixxer for months myself :D
@Jad Luciano Yup, been using instaflixxer for months myself :)
@Jad Luciano Yea, been using instaflixxer for years myself :)
It's simple :
Turnfighting is the only type of combat many people know.
Most players have no clue about the differences of each plane.
Which makes you wonder why they don't fly planes that are better at turnfighting, especially since it's common knowledge that certain nations' aircraft are built with that kind of combat in mind (the Japanese in particular, and the Soviets and British to a lesser degree).
I resort to turnfight mostly with my Japanese planes, because, as you said, it is the only type of combat many people know, you see 109s, LA-5s, YAK-3s, hell, even Thunderbolts trying to turnfight. When I fly my Spitfire FR, I normally use Hit and Run tactics, BnZ so to speak and I'll admit it might be my favorite tactic.
And if you dare tell them they are doing it all wrong suddenly you are under verbal attack and told you are no good as a pilot so don't be giving advice. So the Americans out of their own arrogance continue to be joke of WT as they refuse to learn.
Michael R. Foreman
Kinda wrong there. First thing that happend in a realistic battle as an American (least for me) was I was told "dont turnfight, Boom and zoom only". Might have just been because of the plane I was using or the fact I was flying against Japanese.
I also think most people, although i guess less in WT, still has a 90's era mentality, full of propaganda in witch they think Russia only won because of winter and that all Soviet planes, tanks and guns are bad.
"Please stop turn fighting Russian aircraft at extremely low altitudes War Thunder pilots. You are better than this!"
Oh tell that Yak pilots turn fighting Zero's and Ki-43's.
they've been spoiled in terms of being able to turn fight everything else lol
I eat yaks for breakfast in Ki-43's especially the iii
ikr? they think they will outturn the cannonbusa.
+Nelson Azevedo the cannonbusa is epic! but I think the ki-100 is insane!
Japanese planes are super OP because no one play that nation. I know it first hand because i use Japan as a money maker. The thing actually its not that Japanese planes are OP because im pretty sure those planes are performing very close to the reality back then including the allied planes. However the problem is that those planes never faced allied planes in a 1vs1. So thats the unfair thing i see and War Thunder devs will never implement a realistic matchmaking were a nation outnumber the enemy nation because people will cry a lot about it.
If I may play devils advocate, the way the map objectives workout always plays into the hands of the soviets. If you try and climb to engage the high alt yaks and la-5s the ones down low will kill all your ground units and win. If you engage down below the soviets that climbed will wreck your team. I don't see this problem too much on german vs soviet maps because there are very many ground units, but on all other maps this has been a persistent issue.
I thought it was like that in real life?
I mean you just heard magz say russians like the Pe-2's and IL-2's better than bombers so russians are always at low altitude
but you are correct,the map meta is really bad right now
This is kinda true, but USA always had many bombers. If they stop going for bases and actually go for the objective targets like the pill boxes or tank columns, then maybe the sovjets need to deal with the bombers.
i like to turnfight in my B-25 ;-;
i do to and my wellington i killed a yak 3 in iy in rb....
Wellingtons are actually pretty good at throwing off the aim of attackers, although, with their speed and roll rate, it only manages to buy time against not-so-good players. Which is already good !
A Halifax tried to turnfight my P51D yesterday ))) Does that count? )))
)))
B-25 is awesome as it's practically impossible to tear its wings off in high speed dives, add stealth ammo and it's great fun.
2:25
"We are obviously flying as Germany"
lol
I take it you don't have annotations on then.
I figure that is a premium La but Magz, there's no annotation there :P
You're right, Magz. You can have a team climb to 20000-30000FT but what then?
Will Soviet fighters intercept bombers, fighters at 20000-30000FT?
Based on my experience (+1 year of RB battles), I have to say no. As you know, 99% of all game related objective are located on the ground or at medium altitude (10000 to 15000FT).
And as you are fully aware of - there are no (besides special 'events') Air Realistic Battle:
- bomber escort missions
- fighter escort missions
- game modes that promote different styles of game play
Since closed beta, Gaijin Entertainment promoted a play style conducive to Soviet planes.
This is a simple observation based on the lack of game modes that could promote different styles of play for the games 4 factions. Maybe if Gaijin added additional modes, besides Alternate History where only US/UK vs USSR (No Germany vs Japan. No US/Japan vs Germany/USSR why is that?), we wouldn't have 4 minuet games. Because what we have right now is biased match making.
The current meta in WT has a lack of diverse missions favoring a faction with the best low altitude performance.
AKA. Eastern Front (as you have explained).
I have to strongly disagree with the "promoted a play style conducive to Soviet planes". This is literally another "Russian Bias" comment. It's not. There's 13 players on each team as a startpoint. They climb up straight to the enemy, Russians will be above axis and under Japan. This happens because little people do actually side climb with axis and capitalist country planes or stay at the borders keeping a high speed if it's a Soviet fighter. All I do is to keep an energy advantage over the enemy and try to avoid all situations against my aircraft. As a Yak 9u and 3p pilot, I often die by IAS exceed because while German planes or p63 and Spitfire lf versions, Russians may have a 30m/s climb rate and great MER at low altitude. I just wait til everyone has gone low to climb more and start spiraling everyone both in my 109s and my yaks. People who side climb either die killed by speed exceed, killed by another sneaky player who also side climbed or get nothing or more than 3 kills. I'm absurdly bad with 109s but at the same time I'm efficient cause I always try to avoid any situation that puts me in danger. I never face Yak 9Us because these have 1000hp more than 109 G2 tropical and still can kick hard at 5k. The F-4 instead is a good matchup for yak 9u as it is faster than g2 tropical and would get the Russian by kinetic energy advantage.
Meanwhile in Il2 Sturmovik you may get at 6k with your spacefire and patrol the skies until a couple of Messerschmitt appear and a combat at 6k starts at 6k and ends at 6k. It's totally different, you don't need to go down trying to get an extra energy boost because there's not much enemies around, maps are big enough and there's no ticket bleeding as far as I know.
Brilliant timing, Magz. I was just trying to record footage for that video on you and I found out that Gaijin needs to fix their shit and their servers because everybody's playing with a PL of anywhere from 15-30%.
Very well done with the tips in this video, In my opinion there is a problem with some youtubers that point out these problems and they are hateful and insulting with the way they come across. This was very well done and I did not see you single out anyone pilot, call them any names.. or just in general insult anyone .. Your videos are always a breath of fresh air into this very hateful community! I wish you uploaded more but I understand why .
I know that you won't do well if you play to your enemies strengths, But if you play like you should either the enemy team will be wiped before you get into combat or it will be 1vs10
I only just started playing this a couple of days ago and the penny just dropped that instead of doing horizontal turns I just worked out by your style that turning in a climb like an Immelman would give some height and there fore some more energy to catch the guy. Of course!!!! You are going to lose a lot of speed either way so you might as well get some height while you are doing it. Ive been practicing boom and zoom in my He-100d. Man I love that plane. Anyway thanks for the advice, thats a revelation. Thanks for the uploads. They are helping me improve massively.
I agree with you fully Magz, however, there is a thing to be said about climb rates and airfield-airfield distance favouring lower altitude combat. Sure those P-51s could've climbed a bit longer and BnZ'd you guys. But that's not a very effective tactic if a quarter of your team is dead due to being turnfighters themselves and staying low. You can get a few good attacks off, and if you fly well, you'll kill one or maybe even two, but after that the rest has equalized or skyrocketed while you were fending off an attack.
Your videos alone have gotten me back into War Thunder twice now. Gj
Thanks for posting the vid Magz. We may all say we know what we need to do but it never hurts to see a good lesson repeated.
Cheers Buddy.
I was actually abused and told to disconnect the game after I side climbed on the left and didn't attack head on below with my team at 2000m. I was in British Hellcat. This behaviour has occurred on almost every map when fighting Russian and axis forces. Not every time but a few. Maybe you could do a video on side climbing in allied planes as its not happening enough ingame.
Lost it at that "Dumbass" self critique annotation. Great video, keep it up :D
And this right here is the explanation why Russian bias exists. It's not that Russian vehicles are overpowered, in fact, most of them are balanced just as well as other nations aircraft, i.e. some perform very, very well and some are just utter garbage. However, the big thing that makes Russian aircraft so strong is that they perform well in the playstyle new players usually tend to. Not climbing to high altitude and turnfighting whatever gets into their crosshair first. I do admit, when I started out, I was playing like this as well, no matter what nation I played. I started grinding American aircraft in AB and when I reached T2 I started playing RB, trying to apply the same fighting style I used in AB. Going to the biggest fight and trying to turn with the enemy. I reached the P-38G and had not much fun with it, I was outturned by the British, Japanese, Russians and Germans usually employed B&Z tactics anyway. I got killed a lot and then it dawned on me that I had been playing the entire American tree wrong. I watched videos and learned B&Z tactics and, most importantly, I learned the most crucial skill in War Thunder: Patience. You need patience when climbing to altitude, need to be patient in order to not dive and lose all of your altitude on the first aircraft you see, but rather keep your altitude and pick targets that are easy to take out and leave you with the advantage. You need patience to think ahead in RB, plan your moves, to assess the situation and to use your ammunition well. And the important thing is, every nation will require patience at some point. Even early Russian jets need to climb and do not perform like their late prop counterparts. This is why I recommend American planes to new players. Because they will teach you to fly them right. By punishing you for doing anything that they are not built to. Turnfighting? You'll get shot down. Low altitude energy fighting? You'll get shot down. Ground strafing in fighters? You'll get shot down. But if you bother to climb to altitude and dive on your enemies and going back to altitude, even if you didn't kill the target, they will stop punishing you and start giving you some of the easiest and sweetest rewards you can gain in War Thunder.
Tl; dr: Russian Bias only exists because the playstyle suits new players, while the playstyle of other nations don't (to that degree). Learn to play Americans. Be patient.
I have a theory for that, but it's about a wider question - why allied teams are so terrible. From personal experience 90% of allied teams that I got in had no clue what they are doing. And I assume that is because they are Allied teams. Lots of people have "America! Fuck yea!" syndrome, so US attracts plenty of people who assume they fly a superior nation with superior planes, and instead of getting better they demand developing to switch ballance. And sadly, developers oblige.
The problem with this hypothesis is it doesn't explain the British pilots, Only American pilots. It also don't explain the German pilots that get into low altitude turn fights with Russian fighters at low alt while flying 190's.
It's not just a national thing, I kind of thing happens with every nation at the moment. Pilots playing to the strengths of there enemies then crying OP when they loose. Now in some cases yes the aircraft does have a potential performance issue. . . so why hand them a further advantage by fighting by there rules?
Nope its the same problem at tier 5 Sabres turn against migs and the reason is they are too lazy to climb. Im the only one who climbs and i get reported for actually play a jet like a jet. Ends up in me in a 1v7 fight never works
I think the answer is very simple, people like the game, but they don't know history, therefore, they don't research, and tend to do what they shouldn't. Add this to years of "propaganda", thinking that Russian planes and tanks are inferior and winter won the war, and the get angry when reality doesn't correspond to what they believe. Some people who know history, like Magz and others, know in what each nation is better and worse at.
no, this isn't on gijin. you can't blame peoples stupidity on the devs. they even put out videos telling people exactly how to use these boom and zoom allied aircraft.
+MagzTV True, it's common for every nation and pretty much all online games in general. My theory is only about why teams that have US in them so terrible, but the point is pretty much the same - "It's not us who are stupid, it's planes that are broken". I'd agree with Flavio's opinion, but I say the problem is not in lack of knowledge, but in denial of any knowledge that isn't fitting their imagination.
Sounds like I am a smartass ofc, but... Well, maybe I am, but nobody even tried to prove their claim of that.
Very good video. Keep em coming like this.
I have just gotten back to WT from a 3 patches long break and have gotten a little rusty so.
Just started learning japanese and russian planes now. Haven't really played them so much before.
The amount of skill put in to this flight is great Magz. Really enjoyed the whole video. Thanks for that! :)
Whenever I see Russian bias in chat, I'll tell them to watch this video, go off their computer, and never type again.
Ehm, Magz, nice advice. But what to do next? Climb and basicly not engange soviet planes? If pilots on both sides will do what they "should", they will never meet + maps are so small to be able to climb to effective alts.
End of the video, Climb, Boom in, Fire at high speed then zoom back to altitude. Do not turn back if you miss until you are safely back out of the range of the targets guns (and preferably several km away) rinse and repeat. This is how the Mustang and the Typhoon where designed to fight.
*"they will never meet + maps are so small to be able to climb to effective alts."* - If this was true then how to all the best pilots climb to effective alts and do exactly what I have just described?
MagzTV Cause best pilots have in teams also "stupid" ones...so when Allied team can do what they supposed to do every match you will find Japaneese or Soviet player who will, sooner or later try to climb or try to chase. So then is when "best pilots" seal clubs the rest.
For example, Ki-83 have best performances at 9 000 metres. How many players will climb there and how many other players he will meet? I think, WT (at least at RBs) need bigger maps.
It´s nothing against your advices. But majority of the maps are so small, that fast attack plane can kill what he need, low altitude soviet fighters will cover them and enemy team will just climb, cause they cannot enter and exit the "dogfight" when they want.
You don't have to climb to your optimal altitude in a boom and zoom fighter, Just to an altitude higher than your enemy. Sorry mate but your "They wont see one and other" argument doesn't hold water.
Do you think it would be good for Gaijin to add a few high-altitude US/Britain vs. Germany maps? Something where both teams get an air spawn at 25-30k feet to simulate western-front dogfights better?
It's just the Meta of the game, people dont want to spend 10 minutes climbing to 30k feet when an enemy was spotted on the deck 2 minutes into the battle.
get a climb fighter
Tiffie can turnfight a Yak or a La if it needs to. I've done it several times, you just need to manage your engine power and flaps a bit more than usual, but it's got the elevator to turn and burn if it needs to.
And Spitfires of course just start salivate the moment anyone at low altitude rolls over to one side.
allied teams as a rule struggle against Russian and Japanese teams because of their low altitude performance. the difference is in response to allied teams getting whipped in most matches with these two countries is lots of Japan's fighters getting their b.r. increased to a absurd level (ki-61 II @ 5.0) where Russia's fighters keep the advantageous low b.r. ( yak 3p 4.7 and yak 9p 5.0).
Don't know about most people but I'll be honest mate, but without your channel I'd be much much much worse then I currently am now, and at best I'll consider myself a little above average. First RB battle of mine? in a 109 E-3 vs Spitfires in Britain. Would've done horrible if not for things you said about Spits and 109's (And the fact that I had a tonne of patience for that mode then).
So for why people turn fight in not turn fighters? Probably a combination of lack of patience and/or just a lack of knowledge. Not much of a reason/excuse but it's all I can think of.
Very good video! I especially appreciate that you put the information into a historical context, to make it more easy to understand why the flight models behave the way they do :)
This way the information is more likely to get stuck in people's brains ^^
i understand not to turn fight at low altitude, but the sad truth is that even if a yak is at high altitude, say, 5k-6k meters, they don't lose all that much preformance. Yes, they are worse of at high altitude and what these kinds of player don't seem to get is that even if they take their American aircraft to a proper altitude, that does not mean they are untouchable.
true, but, the yak/La-5 can out climb any U.S plane and side climbing for U.S planes are so meta now that any B/Z aircraft, unless they have an air spawn like the p-47, will have no chance. Yaks/ LA-5s will always be above any US plane and even if they don't have the best preformance up there, they will win.
A very old school magz video. Felt like olde tymes
Magz, you had a couple instances in this video where a plane flew into your crosshairs at very close range, but you didn't fire. Was this just that you didn't react fast enough, or was it a deliberate decision?
Those La's and Yak's are great on the deck, but they also aren't slouches at 4-5k meters either. They only have very minor flaws, no serious weaknesses in the War Thunder meta.
Well That isnt entirely correct. LA-5s suffer significant climb rate drop after passing 3000m. However the altitude where the advantage for western airctaft is definitive is above 7000m. The problem is getting to such altitude, and after you get there all the enemies are going to be 3K below you. so you can engage in a BnZ from there. However a good pilot in a good plane will avoid your BnZ to the point where you loose all your energy advantage. in the end combat between two experienced pilots like this can drag on for a long time and will ultimately end only by intervention of another player or the lack of fuel or ammo.
For me their flaws is that they dont excell at anything. They can do everything though. Yak of all trades master of none.
The P51 that you were fighting performs almost as bas as you at high altitude. That Allison doesnt do too well at altitude. It kinda starts dying out at 4-4500m
e115x525 that thing is a beast over 5k in my experience
nice explanation of fighter tacticts ... excellent work!!!
This is true on so many levels, I dont know why people still do this even after basically every youtuber telling them exactly the same thing every time
There’s not many players who fly like your opponents in the games I end up in. They like to fly back and forth beneath me. Not sure what they’re aiming to do but it forces me to dive away
So lets see if we can find a performance drop more significant with measure of 250m, 2500m, 5000m and last 6500m with a la5fn vs a spit with the same br. lets see how fast they can do 5 turns and stay at this altitude. Lets see if the higher we get the spitfire gets more of an advantage..... can bet you that apart from the unable to use WEP above 3500m ish the engine won't drop down in performance faster then say the spit.
I know you made a mistake earlier saying that you were fighting as the Germans, but now that you mention it I had completely forgotten that the Germans have a captured La-5FN, even though I have one myself (which should tell you how rare they are, though to be fair it's a bit pricey for what you get in terms of golden eagles, the most common captured planes on German teams being the Yak-1B and P-47D, though I've seen a handful of captured Il-2s lately as well for one reason or another). Its role on German teams is...interesting to say the least, as they seem to bridge the gap between a Bf-109F (or an early Bf-109G) and a Fw-190A, having the nose-mounted firepower and almost but not quite the climb rate of a Bf-109, with the low-altitude performance of the Fw-190A, and better maneuverability than either of them below 5 km.
A particular problem, at least for American aircraft, is the issue of climb rates. Pretty much across the board, putting all your stock into altitude will still not necessarily be enough to outdo all the other, faster climbing aircraft you might meet. Particularly going against the Russians, I find that the only way to gain a significant altitude advantage is to actively avoid engaging for as long as possible, purely for the purpose of climbing. By the time I have the advantage, the team, whether they've chosen to climb or not, have at some point met an enemy aircraft that either has better position or an energy advantage and got shot down. At best, I might have a couple of teammates left, but we're vastly outnumbered and our advantages are difficult to use.
Another issue is one inherent to Boom 'n Zoom tactics: Time. As I said before, the team is often dead before I can engage if I wish to do so from advantage. However, even if I get to do so early enough, I'll need my aim to be spot on and generally also get a little lucky to deal with an enemy in one pass. Compare that to turnfighters, which generally grab on, force the enemy to evade, and push until they get the kill, and I'm sure you'll see the problem.
I'll freely admit that I'm not that great a pilot. However, while I may not be doing everything right, I at least know and strive towards what I'm supposed to do, yet continually get the same results: Failure.
G'day Magz!
I was wondering if you were planning to do a video on the Ki 83?
I don't understand why the higher BR yaks and La's can outperform germans at 6-7km high altitude
It usually happens to me (altough I'm kind of a noobish player). In the past 2 years russians beat me at high altitude 8/10 times
Because if russians stay low, you have to engage them on low altitude, you can't just stay at 6000m climbing, you can still boom and zoom but once you drained all your energy you both are at low altitude.
And I have seen a lot of russian climbing up to 5000m and crying because their plane didn't perform well at that altitude
Totally agree. I would also add that when I climb to 6000 m I usually see no one, just one dick at 7000 m which I actually don't see until the last second of my 10 minute match. And that 10 minutes was climbing. Or in other scenario, most players that didn't climb already get their kills and I am left with bomber hunting but usually I find that bomber after another 10 minutes, sitting on the runway. I don't even... this is so lame... If only Gaijin would know what metagame is and how to create fun, balanced, engaging game modes.... but they clearly are not Blizzard.
you just described a tipical match of mine.
if i climb i am cut out of the battle, if i don't i get raped
magz is it possible for you to fly out the f86 f25, but instead of talking about the f25, why not tell us the history behind the CA27 (or Avon sabre as it's also known)? sorry if I sound like a prick asking, but I thought it would be an interesting topic
No, you don't sound like that at all. CA-27 is a much loved subject of mine. I may do exactly that at some point, Maybe soon.
MagzTV I look forward to it :)
hopefully it'll get added to war thunder either through an international tech tree or in the british tech tree
+MagzTV thanks for this video btw, it's exactly what I've been waiting for
the progress from the la5f to the la5fn might not be noticed at first but let me tell you: i used to hardly get 1 kill with the la5f but i got 2 kills and 1 assist on la5fn
I love the mini lesson in the begining
Spitfires weren't build for low alt and the russians hold no superiority on deck. But russians tend to be numerically more fighters since there is a lot more variety in groundstriking aircraft in allied teams which causes the russians most of the time to hold an overwhelming numerical superiority in fighters, may that be on deck or on hight alt, the only thing that high alt changes is that you are a little bit more immune to swarming.
P39s and P63s outturn Yaks and LAs on deck, so does the Spitfire, P40, Bf109, everything tier 2 and 1, F6F, and Simulator Battles in given situations even more including early 190s, Typhoons and P47Ds...
The argument that russians simply are superior on deck is idiotic...
How is it that every time I spawn in a new match, there's always that one guy in a Yak-9 or Yak-3 that climbs really high?
They put themselves in a situation where they try to run and guarantee death or try to turn and hope the guy on you can't aim. A 30 round burst of 20mm's going into their plane in generally their outcome.
"Berlin Alt. History, we are facing Britain and United States, we are obviously flying as Germany".....
When you get a battle tropy, within it i got a talesman vor the la-5fn i am not that far in the tussian tectree yet
Everything you said in this video is 100% accurate. However, there are a couple of issues. Firstly this game has been specifically designed to promote and reward the style of combat that benefits the Russians design scheme. This is done through the size of the map, the type, location, and placement of bomb targets, and the duration of the game. It has chased almost every player who does not conform to the low altitude brawling type of combat into either sim or to other games. Secondly, and you can verify this with actual pilot handbooks and documentation (this is related to American aircraft specifically) almost every aircraft in the American tech tree has been stripped of 20 percent of its performance. Just to give one example, the pilot handbook for the p51d states (praphrased) that a cruise climb to altitude is to be done at 80 percent power holding over 3000ft per minute climb. And that is just one of the American aircraft. Other huge issue examples include the Bearcats....
... Vertical stabilizer that has literally been twisted 6degrees to the left that induces HUGE yaw issues at speed if not pre trimmed for. Yes players in this game do not use high altitude aircraft correctly, but some of those high altitude aircraft have had the performance that would make them more enticing to fly at altitude castrated.
Hey Magz, I had a turn fight at low altitude with a aA6M5 and a spit in Sim..Both where able to outturn me..however I did not die I just out ran them...my question is :Is this normal?Thanks Billy
Honestly I think people just don't have the patience to properly combat most Soviet fighters. It's much easier to turn into them and hope that they mess up their turn in an overshoot then to run and open the gap for the next 5 minutes (at which point the game is probably over).
Honestly though, play as Russia and you'll see them commit the same crimes versus the Japanese.
I agree because soviet plane superior thats why gaijin recently buff soviet planes because its historically accurate. We nerf western capitalist pig they are bad design and had plenty flaws no good energy retention like the superior soviet planes, so we nerf their 50cals and 20mm we also nerf energy retention of planes because they got bad aero dynamics and their merlin engine are not good like those we had on our yaks3, la5 and la7 and they can catch up with capitalist pig in high altitude p51D can be overtaken by la5 in high altitude because it has better engine performance in high altitude than that capitalist pig merline and its written in sekrit dokument! Dont believe on western capitalist when they say our plane have bad horse power and our plane wings made out of wood! Western capitalist pig propaganda and lies! So we will buff em for they are made out of stalinium and Horse Power of its engine are good made in Russia you know and its historically accurate trust me komrade!
Well the Japanese offers a better fight. Same with the Spitfires. They will offer a better fight against the Russians. In general, people have no patience for high alt combat. I have more matches where I end up Boom and Zooming P-51Ds in my A6M5 because they do not want to climb and compared to the speed I am going at the moment in the A6M5 its not fair for them. Because I have more energy and I am in a far superior plane in those situation vs the P-51D. Allied teams hate climbing b/c its a waste of time. When a entire allied team climbs, I have had matches like that where we would destroy the entire Russian, Japanese or German Teams like they were nothing. People do stupid stuff and they call German, Russian or Japanese Bias. Well tbh its its not the country is more biased towards. Its because of you doing something your plane wasn't suppose to. This game needs to force people to do more high alt combat. If that was the case. WT would be less Russian or German or Japanese biased. Matter in fact those planes lots of idiots call "OP" most of those time those idiots brain are under powered. I have had matches where a idiot in the P-51D would engage in a slow turning engagement against a Zero. When I shoot them down they either call me a hacker or Japanese biased, same for Germans (in different situations) and Russians. PFFTTTTTT Too many dumbasses thinks this is how you fly a plane. If this was real life and they did that, they would have been helping the enemy pilots become aces after 1 combat flight.
+MasterofBlitz they cant catch and get close to US fighter since they are much faster than them thats why youll see most of the gun cam of the US in pacific are records of US fighter shooting US planes on deck tree top level because they try to lure them on dog fighting them. And not all p51D victories are on high altitude since bomber will do on mid altitude like 8-9k feet to drop they load it highly depends on the weather. Most dog fight happen bellow 6m and most of p51D kills are at that level. Im not making this up its the truth look for Allied Fighter gun cam. Gaijin has remove what makes US planes good its speed and acceleration i know US fighters are not good since they are heavy but well armored and sturdy well constructed. In game p51D is horrible ive notice my p51D which already ace it cant outrun soviet planes that is much lower tier than me like yak3 and la5 at deck level even in high altitude at 22k they can catch up with me since they got better acceleration if i slight
Most American planes were meant for high alt. As you need high alt for a boom and zoom. Without any alt, American planes were useless to Boom and Zoom. I have a P-51D (D-5, D-20 and the D-30) and I still enjoy flying them. I feel like the higher they are the better they are to the Russians. Russians dominate the lower alt.
+MasterofBlitz slightly angle my plane downwards to get extra speed and acceleration its not even even a good idea its even worst because it also make the yak and la5 gain speed and able to get in a shooting distance to shot me, which impossible in real life since la5 till early model of la7 is deemed a failure due to its engine to be under powered and have severe overheating issue, but not in the game infact the p51D had the overheating issue ingame which is not the case in real life that supposed to plague soviet plane.p51D only had those overheating issue if its radiator are hit. Its even more hilarious and utter bullshit that the la5 to early la7 and yaks except those beyond 1945 production had wooden wings that able to withstand 20mm and spark, far mor worst using 50cal which should snap and shred those wings in real life if it got hit. I mean look for german fighter plane gun cam in easter front and youll see those wooden wings broke to pieces when hit by german guns and mg
great info !!! thx Magz
in your opinion do spits turn better then La-5FN..the reason I ask Im grinding towards both planes Which do you prefer?
I prefer Spits and they do turn better but still avoid playing with Russians low.
I've only just noticed how much you use flat scissors in engagements. Any tips on actually lining up shots in such an engagement?
thanks for the useful reminder...sage advise but so easy to forget in a headrush of adrenaline
I fly a BF-109 G-2 most of the time when playing on IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, and i try very hard to boom and zoom as you say, but eventually i bleed so much speed that the altitude i gain from it is close enough for the russian to shot me down. How do i conserve my energy better? I cant do shit against them i feel like a complete noob.
The thing is, even when you Boom and Zoom Russian fighters in good Boom and Zoom fighters, their ridiculous UFO performance will enable them to catch you. At least it was like that back when I played the game in the patch 1.3 to 1.4 days.
I had situations in which I was diving on 2 Russian fighters who were both just taking off their runway in my FW 190 A-5 (back when it still was a tier 3, BR 3.3 plane). I hit one with my 20mm, only sparks, I don't turn, I don't waste energy, I just try to Zoom away as fast and in as straight of a line as possible, flying in excess of 600 km/h. Then I look back and see that those guys, who have been airborne less than 20 seconds at that time, are already catching up to me.
I couldn't outrun them, I couldn't outclimb them.
The same thing happened to me when I flew Russian fighters. I fly around in my half spaded Yak-3, at less than 1000 meters altitude, a P-47 tries to Boom and Zoom me, diving from about 4000 meters. I evade, the guy does everything right and keeps running in a straight line instead of turning. I do an energy guzzling, horizontal (because I was pretty low after my evasive maneuver, too low for another Split-S) 180 degree turn, not really expecting to do much but keep an eye on him, but then I notice that I'm already matching his speed after he only was 1.7 km away. I effortlessly caught the guy and shot him down.
I was so disgusted and felt so dirty that I stopped playing Russian fighters after that, with the exception of the Mig-3, which was the only non-UFO that was challenging to fly in the Russian tech tree back then.
Eheh sorry man, but the Yak-3 and Yak-9U were both faster than the Fw 190 or the P-47 on the deck. Don't go in a straight line. Immediately put the plane in a shallow climb to get back up to altitude. If you stay in level flight for too long the Yaks will catch you, especially with their great acceleration.
@@ryanjonathanmartin3933 Did you read what I wrote?
They had just taken off the runway and I came out of a several km high dive and it took them seconds to match my speed.
That was definitively unrealistic nonsense.
I doubt that even a Me-163 rocket plane had that kind of acceleration seconds after taking off.
@@TrangleC does that still happen? I have never experienced this.
@@ryanjonathanmartin3933 I don't know. I haven't played the game in 5 years or so. I heard Russian planes are not as overpowered as they used to be anymore though, but I have no personal experience to confirm that.
I reremeber when I did bassically the same thing with a spitfire when the americans had a numbers advantage
At that T3 and T4 the more powerful Russian planes (e.g. yak 3p, yak 9) out climb regularly out climb most american fighters (p38s p47s, p51s) outperform them in both speed and maneuverability. With short range maps Russian planes will fight long before poor engine performance is an issue. Add in the wonky long range radar in RB, its the meta that favors Russian planes a lot more than the habits of pilots themselves. Why engage at low alts? Because you're in a fight before it ever gets to high alt.
What you use to edit and record?
And then they call bias...
just an observation: use you flaps more when turning for faster guns on target :)
What are those slates that come out when you are turning? I actually noticed this in the Bf109 in dcs world. I'm guessing they help improve turning.
Those are actually low-speed, leading edge slats. In 1940, they were incredibly revolutionary. Germany was the first to use them in their Bf 109's and they were slats that pop out of the wing at low speed to increase lift. Russia saw this and copied the idea with their Lavochkin series of fighters. If you look at jumbo jets today, a lot of them have leading edge slats as well to increase their lift for take off and landing when they're moving at very slow speeds.
You mean the flaps?
Leading edge slats, They auto deploy increasing the wing surface area during turns to improve turn speed and stability. Well that's the simplified explanation anyway. There kind of a genius design for the time.
JoaoAfonso Figueira Flaps come out in the back of the wing. The slats he's talking about come out from the leading edge.
yeah, those are combat flaps. they help your turning but you kinda have to know what you are doing. I still can use them because I leave them on sometimes lol
I try to avoid turn fighting unless I'm in a Zero or Spitfire. I like BnZ a lot better than any other fighting tactic anyways.
Can you do a video helping people with the camping problem in tanks arcade mode?
Nuff said Magz....
What's a good tier 2-3 German aircraft for learning how to fight in RB? I played my first RB match yesterday in the fw 189 and well i didn't die but i only got 11 hits no kills. Any suggestions?
109 F-4
Francis Lavelle that or the e3, that has fantastic turning so it'll suit me well. FW 190's are to instable
Bf 109 E4
Use the E-3 first, it wont punish you for getting in to trouble as it is the most nimble 109. If you have problems killing, but not with the Boom and Zoom then go for the fw190A's they have many guns and can roll well.
+Jeroen
there's really no reason to use E3 when we have E4
Great tip!! Subscribed :)
So it is that an army avoids strength and attacks weakness. - Sun Tzu
This applies equally well in air combat.
Well thats the revolving door effect att work. Experienced players look at BR and matchmaking f.ck ups never getting fixed and ... leave. New players come in cause *shiny new planes* and dont know the first thing about flying them. And... thus 3+ years of Wthunder and we have a large percent of the community that is clueless. The revolving door keeps on turning.
Magz you enjoying WT atm, or is it a 'hassle' for you to play?
Lol I love magz gamertag
Well because the Yaks can catch you at 20,000ft. So can a lafn. You loose automatically
not in a P51. even if it can because u screwed up just dive away you can go above 800 it will rip at 750
Oh yeah! Especially when I'm in my P 38 at 25.000ft and I burst in to flames.
Spike Lowry
P38s have enough engine power to run away and you will always be above them. If you arent you are doing something terribly wrong
I do try to run but that damn yak's with their damn cannons just chew the hell out me before I can WEP the hell out there. I'm not a shitty pilot I stay about 25,000ft and look for bombers and fighters who are not paying attrition then I boom and zoom, but I get worried when we are fight the Russians because I know we are going to lose. With Germans they are fun to dogfight with because they fight fair or ones i have with I mean.
Its simple.knowledge or a lack of it .they dont research the planes or learn about them.
Is warthunder still good? I haven't played it in months maybe even a year and the last time I heard about it was with a huge fuck up with Gaijin that got everyone upset
and I would still be climbing at 5 minutes into the match
ikr. What pisses me off in Brit or us matches is you're the only one that climbs and you have 3 or 4 Germans or Soviets higher than you.
they're always satellites and lawn mowers in every game
You are so awesome!
There's a reason it took me three times longer to get to American jets than it did Soviet jets.
1. They see you coming almost every time. Ow yea because of giant red markers. WT favours the turn fighter far more with its game mechanics than that of a BnZer. I miss the day when you could approach an enemy from high 6 and unless they actually looked at you, you didn't show on the "radar".
2. If most allied planes tried to make it to Alt where they are effective the russians for the most part will be 2 steps ahead in the climb against them. Because for a long time and for a still a number of them the russian stats were/are "higher" *cough russian bias cough* while many allied counter parts were sub realistic stats by a not insignificant amount.
3. If the game modelled vehicles in this game 100% accurately most of the russian stuff would suffer from serious issues majority of the time due to the poor build quality they had.
All in all i gave up on WT a long time ago and moved onto other better flight games because gaijin really stopped caring about making a great game that would encompass all types of gamers. Weather it be from arcade to sim which is a shame cause it could have been a great maybe the best air craft fighter game if they had really wanted.
Now after all this time i still look at it and just get sad at what it could have been.
what exactly is a zoom climb. I usually try to climb at 20 degrees straight line.
It is when you use the energy your aircraft has to "zoom" to a higher altitude. Converting energy to altitude!
I make sometimes the misstake myself but only in the crossair becouse when it has speed it can turn sharp but not for long and
i get killed when i get to greedy with it, but it is my loved aircraft plz make a vidz about it plz.
Mfg. Lancelot and Greetings from Germany Magz
I have a theory for this the reason pilots make these decisions is because a few things
1. Turn fighting most times when people think of ww2 dogfights this is what they think they don't think of other means of combat with piston fighters besides this.
2. Numerous half-truths many have heard about how bad the first Russian planes were but either don't hear or don't care to know about how good the later one were meaning they often put bad on what is in reality a good plane.
3. Stereotypes the gear from most of these nations carry a stereotype and people often apply that
4. Refuse to learn people rather throw these self at something several times then complain rather than see what they did wrong
Why I went back to the spitfires
First!
Slanders!
_merde!_
Cheated and also Do*
The title is "don't to this"...is that intentional or a spelling error?
I've been on the beta for over a month. Just haven't made a video on it yet. Never seems to be anyone on when I am there, Don't really want to do a video fighting AI.
omg at 3:54 the yak 3p's shadow freezes, wtf??
Yak-OP is to fast for it's own shadow to catch it :P
absboodoo XD
Magz! Where's the No Man Sky #2 Vid's ?!?
We take the Yak up high, Russian bias Ahahaha. Nothing can stop path of stalinium Alexei.
Why people turnfight soviet fighters at low altitude ? because the same planes can outturn allied fighters at their "own" altitude too ! So why climbing so high if you get the same result at low and still get the chance to kill one or two ground targets in the meanwhile ?
Can you do a p-80 video?
Honestly the P-51A has a little chance against LA-5FN. He might run for a while but the LA would catch him anyway + those guns are able to snipe up to 1km with no problem.
Which is exactly why he shouldn't be at low altitude with the La-5FN in the first place. Dicing from a higher altitude the P-51a can exceed 850kph without ripping, The La-5FN rips at 720kph.
P-51A rarely fights La-5FN
It needs full uptier
I found this really useful for fighting and picking up the russians thanks for the tips
People watch Zero pilots like my self duel LA-5s and win and think they can do the same in Cobras and 190s
Can you make a video telling the Germans how to play cause right now none of them are bothering with climbing.
You should take out the P-47N. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
he did, he is still trying to climb to alt in it
***** you must be one of the idiots who carry a full fuel load on it. or you just read the stat card. this thing on minimum load climbs almost as good as the P-51D (minimum load being 45 minutes after engine upgrade)
not fully upgraded it takes forever, 10 degreese pitch up only gives 150 knt ias
so you must be one of the idiots who assumes everyone has stuff spaded and cant take a joke
***** you must be taking a full fuel load. I spaded this thing day 2 of its release. and flown it a ton since. it is pretty good at climbing.
just not with full fuel load.
you have to take lower loads.
because the way I climb. I'm 15 degrees climb with an average of 150mph.
yea 1hr fuel is min when not spaded
Plane request!!! Fw-190 D-9 or the D-12
Yessss fly out the food for spitfires
This is what i call a tutorial!
Wth is that manoeuvre at 1:14 ?! :o It's looking like you're manoeuvring in 0G :o
I guess slowed footage / great camera work.
The original UFO, anyone in the comments remember those days?
Magz I know you do
New pilots likely?