Thank you for your support, Rachel! Your expectations are the exact ones we want to live up to. We believe that every change has been made for the sole purpose of making the game more fun for players. Thank you for being on the journey with us!
Yeah, I think that also helps remedy the negative feeling of having an item you really like getting destroyed. But in order to not have that ruin the feel of other mechanics, maybe one type of the killable minions allows you to dig in your discard pile? Something costly like that but not convoluted.
what about being able to sell items for gold instead of having them overflow? I mean it's a Bazaar! maybe let the player fuse items on the board to then sell the upgraded item for more than the sum of its parts (like fusion in yugioh). the enemy will want to stop you from making a fortune, by destroying your most valuable item on the board. and if he can't clear it, you can sell it and buy something extremely powerful! maybe I'm missing something, just some thoughts after watching the video. great work btw guys, keep it up! :)
fusing items/combining would give A TON of design space, like completing item sets, that would then combine to form 1 item that takes up less board space.
really like the new board and direction, make it slick and simple, easier to run on any platform and easy to tell whats going on!! keep up the good work
I can't take the advertiser voice seriously but this is still a genuine love for a game you're clearly excited for and I'm still very excited for. Keep up the good work!
Another cool idea that would mesh pretty well with the size mechanic is cards with tetris like shapes that interlock. If they interlock they gain a special effect, similar to meeting a condition in other digital card games. I think this would encourage even more thought about the order or placement of where to put your next card.
The size mechanic is genius! I love it. But hey, it's a Bazaar! Why can't we sell our items to the merchants? It seems like such an obvious solution to board space management that I feel like I might be missing something that makes it not work. If you can buy items, it makes sense that you would also be able to sell them. That would make it feel like you are actually at the Bazaar participating in the action! Edit to highlight another commenter's comment: the durability could be its "health" value, as in how many points of damage it can take before breaking, but with no natural decay. Then they could be removed either by selling or by being destroyed. Also, I think the items having different costs to buy is extremely important to the theme. I can't see an obvious drawback to having different purchasing costs AND size being levers to pull. LOVE these update videos. Keep up the good work.
We explained in earlier videos why we removed money as a resource. We also explained that we made every item cost the same because it shifted the focus toward the effect of the card rather than how efficient they are
@@reynad27 Right, I remember. I watch all the videos (really good stuff). I'm just doubting if it was the right call, theme-wise is all. Im not sure the trade-off is worth it. Additionally, if you could sell items to the Bazaar to clear your hand, you could tweak different cards' Sell prices also, for additional 'levers to pull' for design space. Also, quick thank you for always reading and responding. I've gotten to have a few conversations with you and I definitely feel heard as a fan.
@@reynad27 I haven't put any significant amount of time into this idea, it was just the first thing that came to mind regarding 1) making it feel like a bazaar but 2) avoiding money as a resource: Maybe there's a way to implement trading as a mechanic. It would feel equally bazaar-esque, maybe even more so tbh, and could open up further design space. Knowing how exactly to do it, and whether it's even a good idea, would require some thought. Maybe make it work based on a pseudo-currency, like item rarity; every item has a rarity (the usual suspects like common, rare, epic, legendary) and you can only trade off items for others of equal rarity. Then there could even be cards or effects that affect a player's "exchange rate", like allowing you to go +1 on your next trade and get a legendary for your epic or whatever. Just some random food for thought, mostly wanted to convey the idea of trading in general and I am sure you guys will know how to determine what to do with it :)
I really like the idea of the card size mechanic, but the notion of the card gold cost being removed seems antithematic to me. The whole premise of this game is that you're in an intergalactic bazaar/marketplace, why wouldn't the items cost gold/currency?
Dont look at it like that anymore. No longer is the game about how much resource you have to buy stuff, but that it's about what you choose to buy and that's now your resource to manage. You have all the money you need to buy whatever you want. You're in an intergalactic bazaar. Why spend your time counting pennies when it's easier to just swipe your space credit card to get whatever you want and manage where you put it all. I'm a fan.
I think that gold/currency might end up more of a merchant class identity thing rather than an overall game theme but I’m not 100% good observation though I’d be shattered if there wasn’t some kind of special bazaar coin in the game at all
Maybe some effects to reduce size of item. Instead of losing durability, the item gets smaller, and its effect/special power gets weaker. Keep up the good work. I'm excited to try it out
Brain already racking with all the types on mechanics you can have with this current system. inb4, “Big Overflow Chef Meta is too strong!” “10 Item Merchant Exodia Combo -The Dream.”
One thing I love to see is how in order to explain (and I assume develop) mechanics physical tiles/cards are used. Considering the game is inspired by physical board/card games it's great to strive towards a game that at least 'physically' is intuitive and functions not too dissimilar from an actual card game. I also love that cards' numerical values are being reduced. Reminds me of processes in product design about cognition-based vs perception-based interfaces, where cognition-based interfaces rely on labeling (e.g. a button for sound has a picture of a speaker on it) and perception-based interfaces don't (e.g. an unlabeled button for sound is located near the actual speaker, has ridges to indicate turning, etc.). 'Card Size' being a mechanic is great because it plays directly into the 'physical' element of the card, which is more perception-based and intuitive and easier to learn, as well as easier to process in a moment-to-moment overview of the battlefield. Considering 'playing' the game itself is already a cognitive experience (relying on knowledge, arithmetic etc. to process information) I'd imagine you want the base game and perceptible elements to be as perception-based as possible, while not losing complexity. Love this direction! I think there's a lot to learn from following this process.
I like the idea of using board space as pseudo mana, have you thought about expanding each players board in the Y axis? Basically a slightly taller rectangle or square. That would let you introduce items with different shapes and sizes and 2 dimensional item positioning (instead of just positioning on a horizontal plane like cards in hearthstone). Loving the updates!
I would like to see, maybe as a late-game item, or just as the game progresses, the amount of slots to put items into increase. Just because I think the late game will be a little lacking with those limited slots and items being all the same cost. Also, I'd love to see some sort of way to see/take back pushed off items, that can be interacted with and only seen via certain items, or maybe even a character's ability. Also, fusing items/combining would give A TON of design space, like completing item sets, that would then combine to form 1 item that takes up less board space. the synergies that these items could have with combinations would be really interesting to see!!! i love this new design and im really looking forward to the gameplay. Great work reynad and the bazaar team!!!!!
A different flavour of overflow might be to allow players to slide the left-most and right-most items off of their board to make room to buy new ones (and being unable to buy new ones while their board is full). Same mechanic in essence but removes the need for a point-click interface when buying a new item. (also optionally gives the opportunity for a left and right side discard pile or a combined single one, only of course if you wanted that design space). Separately, I think it's important to be sparing with mechanics that destroy opponent's items. Given that the board and hand are a combined entity, it can be very similar to hand destruction mechanics in other games which are pretty controversial and un-fun on the receiving end. Would be interested in your thoughts on these ideas. I keep getting more and more excited after every update video! I'm convinced that with all the talent, passion and hard work behind this game it is bound to be a hit. You have something special here!
I think the overflow mechanic is awesome. Do you think it plausible to have malleable card sizes? For instance, small gives +1, medium gives +2, large +4? I'm sure you've already thought of this, but overflow effects would be amazing and make the losing of that card part of a plan and not feel as bad.
Awesome changes. One suggestion I would have with the removal of a deck slot, is to use that board space for a field or stadium slot like in yugioh/pokemon. Those always feel good to buy if balanced correctly.
Nice to finally see the actual game! (At least what I'm assuming is very close to current state of the game) Seems unique in comparison to other strategy games. Regarding the push off mechanic, I wonder how you'd be able to choose which side to push off? (And in the case of bigger items, how many items to push off) The only thing I could think of is putting it the furthest on either side, which might force you to mess up future strategies regarding placement. That could either be fun or annoying, but I can't really tell without having seen the full game... It does seem like a very intuitive and simple solution though. If you don't want the player to worry about that, maybe let them reorder the positioning however they'd like during their turn? Though that could maybe turn the hand into some sort of needlessly complicated puzzler sub-game... idk. Another way to free up space could be to sell items? Though I have no idea how that mechanic would impact the game as a whole (or is that mechanic in the game already?).
I love love love the size concept as different from mana-cost. It seems like an area of play that other games don't have, but also a natural restriction of physically buying things in a store. Some class options that interact with it flavorfully without being *too* complex: Merchant: when he overflows, he 'sells' the lost card in some way automatically (maybe just heals your face a bit to keep it simple, idk). Fisherman (Reynad's fav :P): Use smaller cards as 'bait' for larger ones, maybe adding durability to the bought card? Then a cheapo card with high durability is useful to the class so a brittle card can be held for longer Wizard/Scientist/Magician: Make cards larger/smaller in some way. (smaller decreases durability, larger increases. But increasing opponent's card size causes others to fall off). Could also make things disappear for a turn Werewolf: I know the day/night thing may be on the outs, but having cards change sizes when each turn corresponding to if they are wolfish or not could be fun. So you time your buys so half your board is wolfish at a time so they don't squeeze each other off
Really like the use of space to represent board size (literally). Btw your B-Cam isn't color-coordinated/white-balanced with your A-Cam. Way more orange.
If the spaces on the board is fixed like a grid (think resident evil 4 but without verticality )could players not just reorganize the items how they want in the hand before buying and overflowing? I like the inventory management aspect of being able to reposition items and adapt to the situation. Also now I just want a mad scientist class with a giant ray-gun that shrinks and enlarges items, honey I shrunk the kids style.
Maybe an interesting thing to include on the board is a item overflow bin on either side of the item holder space allowing for items that are pushed off the board space to go into. How these overflow bins allow for interactions later on are limitless, but say the bin perhaps can hold 1-3 items on each side, and at some point you have a option to bring 1 or 2 out and replace them with items on the board. After this is done the overflow bins are closed for the remainder of the game OR perhaps there are interactions later on dependent on "X" that allow you to rummage around in this these bins again.
I think size is a really elegant work around to avoid arithmetic as you mentioned. Hope you guys also borrow the "eye" from runeterra as knowing what is going to happen as the stack/combat resolves (if the game ends up having a stack) instead of guessing is also very nice from a user perspective. Visually I don't love how the cards currently look on the board but the board itself is 10/10, 100x better than the previous version. Looks much more like what you would expect from a tipple A title vs. the old one which was more like something like shadow verse (not bad but not fantastic).
What if you implemented something like automatic decay. Every turn cycle a sandstorm sweeps over the board and reduces all durability by one. Then you know when you buy an item that it will last a maximum of X turn cycles and it shouldn't feel bad using it. It gives you another timing and another mechanic to design around. You can have items that are unaffected by the decay (some keyword). Some powerful items that will only be around for one turn cycle (unless you have ways of protecting them from decay). Just an idea. You might have already tested it.
Well done cleaning up the board looks sharp and clean and I’d imagine it will be better not only for game functionality but also will be a bit more simple for either new or younger players in the future of the game. PS. well done noodle proud of you and this wonderful thing you’re creating can’t wait for official release
It would be cool if you could sell stuff to make space. Sold stuff could maybe be picked up by the other player. I really like the overflow mechanic as well!
I really like the size and inventory mechanics, but I think it would work best if the 10 inventory slots were locked in place (kind of like the inventory of an oldschool rpg like PoE) and you could put items in whatever place you have space to do so (you could buy your first item and place it on position 4 waiting for synergies on 3 and 5), it would give a clear image of your gameplan and the resources you have access to
Maybe in order for you to make room on your board you can introduce a selling option. Being able to sell a item for a fraction of the price, to clear up board space. This way you don’t feel you lost the item for nothing. You at least feel that you get a portion of your money back.
Wow that new board is incredible! Love this update video because we learned so much about the mechanics of the game! I don't understand something though. You said that you don't want durability in the game, but then you mentioned that durability is still in the game at the end of the video. So which is it?
Love the new board and design space ideas, as well as durability. But I agree with those saying that the overflow mechanic is antithematic and unintuitive and I would add that it does not fit into the tight aesthetic that you have established so far. Selling, scrapping or some other mechanic that makes sense to fit into a bazaar would be better. Or even just rework and rename "overflow" to something like "clear the counter" or "overburdened" or something of the like so it fits into the actual aesthetic.
Thanks for the update! To try out these rule changes, do you have alpha dev builds made, or playing IRL with fake cards? Either way it’d be sick to see an example game played out in a future video
I'd like to see an item-selling mechanic. Makes sense for the theme of the game. Under certain conditions, an item can increase in value (every time they are used, when a certain card is played, when the turn ends, etc), and once you've developed an item enough, it benefits you to sell it and replace it with something else. Of course this does reintroduce prices back into the game, but maybe in a more fulfilling way.
I think it will add another layer of strategy if the cards you placed didnt immediately go to the center. For example if you had 1 space on the left side and 2 spaces on the right side available, and you wanted to buy a card that used up 4 spaces you'd be forced to overflow one side or the other. This results in you having to overflow two cards if you place the 4 space card on either side. However if you had the ability to preplan what you wanted to overflow by having fixed positions, it opens up a new angle to approach the game from. You could place all the cards on the left side have 3 open spaces on the right side, then you can overflow only one card that's occupying one space. Just a suggestion, completely fine if it's not implemented.
If cards are locked in place it might be awkward to buy new cards, because you might push cards you want over the edge, when you would of rather of removed other cards on your board. There needs to be a visual cue to let you know whats being overflowed too. Maybe some cards could activate or interact with the overflow mechanic. It definently seems different, the game has gone through so many changes, I'm not really sure what to expect.
So I'm not sure if it was stated in the video but are you able to move the cards in your hand after you buy them? I was thinking that what you can do with overflow is "borrow" some space off the hand until the end of turn and allow you to use what you buy and what you have without forcing it off the board. At the end of turn anything on the borrowed area falls off and you lose it. So for example if you are borrowing one extra space and a three size card is there you can move it to put a one size card there and lose that at end of turn. Alternative you can leave the three size card and lose that gaining two extra hand space at the end of turn for next turn. Feel free to let me know how you guys feel about it and if it is confusing.
Fuck me! I am currently developing game with similar board placement mechanics! Reynad, how did u get in to my head?))) Jokes aside: In gamedev, similar ideas can came in to diffrent peoples minds. Keep going ! Love the new board !
Size mechanic and placement are both awesome, Game is making Huge steps and i like it, so typicaly is it a Fifo line or Lifo? does the 1st item you get(left most get out 1st) or the last(right most) when you are over the max size?
Oh my...this is all becoming very well considered. Size is great, and getting rid of durability was a step in the right direction. BUT. You have limited your design space I think. Another mechanic that is similar to durability, but may be cognitively different is cooldown. Have different cooldowns for each item. It'd be neat to have a general rule of thumb for cool downs for each different item size too (i.e. all small items don't have a cool down, unless its like super rare or something). This also helps with the going face problem as actions are now more limited, and gives the opponent time to prepare for a powerful item getting off of cooldown. Maybe there's an even smarter way to design something similar. Looking forward to seeing more! Keep it up.
Maybe a solution to the "laborsome efficiency management" problem with currency, is that you start with a large amount of it (displayed as a counter or something) that ticks down as you buy things; slowly adding back to it by selling items? So it would be pretty inconsequential in the end, but plays into the theme better. (And maybe can put a cap on some broken combos) Edit: Even if currency seems pesky or convoluted, I don't think it feels that way; ecspecially in a bazaar. The tactile feel of the old build's full hand of coins to spend looked appealing, so maybe you could have a hand mechanic just for currency? IDK, I just think no money in a market themed game could be a misstep.
I like the direction where this is going and thought about what could happen if we just continued the trends concerning the concepts you've described in these videos, here goes. So, what about if you had the board where you placed the items with specific positions, but also a hand AND draw/discard piles. If you had a graveyard in addition to that, I would agree, that would be a bit too much complexity there, so why don't we just make the discard pile and graveyard invisible to the player, and rather invoke them only through certain keywords on your items, since the player won't be interacting with them a lot anyways. We can't have the hand or deck size become too large though, since, as you said, there would be too many cards on the screen. So what if we just restrict the hand size to, say, 10 cards. And the deck could maybe be around 30 I guess. Now that we solved that, we get the best of both worlds. Not only that, you even get a ton more triggers and levers through these very simple additions. Now you can treat retrieving something from your deck, OR discard pile OR graveyard into a resource that has value and is transparent to the player. You could even make cards that manipulate your own hand size (increase to 12?) and you can interact with way more things on your opponent's side as well (make them discard cards?). ... ...I don't know but you've probably realized at this point that we've basically created Hearthstone now lol. Turns out the folks at Blizzard really did consider a shit ton of stuff and I'm sure you're very aware you can still learn a lot from them. Nevertheless, you've got a great thing going here and I hope you keep innovating and improving every possible aspect of the game!
The new board looks very intuitive, I'm curious about how class specific items will show up though based on the space in the middle being the same size as each players "hand". I think the positioning of everything makes sense in regards to the hero portrait being centred but I'm curious if you ever considered moving the space lower down to make the shop fronts bigger, and subsequently having hero portrait on the side to use the space differently and eliminate the "empty" space on the sides for example. Did that impact the toys maybe? Also as far as looking at this board, I'm unsure of exactly where a monster would attack. Maybe the slots on the side of the board would show "wanted" posters with images of a monster that you can "attack" to get the rewards? This is of course assuming monsters still come into play. One thing I'm not sure if you've considered changing, as the project has continued is the win condition. Have you tried there being something different than just hitting the opponents portrait? Maybe having some kind of target that both players want to hit first such as overall Gold balance which of course can be manipulated by interacting with your opponent similarly to attacking them, but with a more mercantile flavour than just violent combat? Also on the topic of durability, while overflow looks like a clever mechanic, I wonder if you've considered having some kind of destroy your item mechanic rather than just reorganizing it to the side. Maybe each item could have some kind of "ultimate" effect, where you can use all of its durability and destroy it but it does something stronger than it normally would, adding design space, and making the destruction of items feel more fun. In this regard you might not even need durability at all?
The one thing I worry about with this boardspace mechanic is that we start to approaching autobattlers balancing meta. If I know what boardstates "win" I'm then rolling for those winning comps and winning or losing is decided by who gets there first. I have no clue if this is how things play out in your game, just a good thing to be mindful of. It could be a good thing as well, as long as it's the path you want to move in that's really cool!
I like autobattlers, and the path getting to winning comps can be varied in far more ways than we see today and I'm sure The Bazaar will have a ton of other aspects to it's game. There's nothing wrong with having wincontidions as long as it's fun for both players getting there :)
Size mechanic seems interesting but will the interface allow it?. If have item card will it be shown the same size as the rest and it will resize when you Play it? Dont get me wrong but it feels a little off.
On the new board it looks like there is only three items in the shared middle row. Does that mean both players now buy from the same item pool as apposed to their own shops on the old board? In previous videos, you also talked about making cards/art unique to each character, but if its a shared item shop, how would that work now?
I like the idea of positioning being important in your personal board space, but it would be sad to see cards enter the Overflow and be deleted. An idea would be that the deleted overflow cards go into a graveyard of sorts that may be accessible through other mechanics. Just a thought. I absolutely love the game thus far!
How about being able to move your items in your hand (Battlegrounds being the most obvious comparison) so you can control what gets overwritten Or just a discard that you can drag and drop into
Hey, haven't played the game so this might feel like a dumb question. Why didn't you implement a Sell mechanic? You're in a Bazaar, there are buyers everywhere. Maybe a Value mechanic so that when you sell something you've used, you've used it and the merchant wants to sell it for market value, so you get less for it. And with or without a value mechanic, it being destroyed still hurts the owner since they can't sell it. Or if coins and value aren't part of the game now, selling items could let you draw cards at random, into your hand? Food for thought.
What if I want to get rid of left most card? Could a grid help with the direct replacement, 10 slots in a grid . Which seems to give more options to the player, other than discarding the left most card.
I love the size!!! But don’t take away the cost of items, it is a marketplace after all?? Have it be another axis. If I want a small AND powerful item it should cost more money to buy than a big item with a similar effect
As a backer, the aesthetic and functionality of card sizes took me from being interested to super excited. As Reynad said, the board looks really nice, unique and simple, and the sample they showed of the card sizes looked unique and intuitive. Also, the removal of the hand ironically re-introduces some of the aesthetic features previous cut (the pirate ship wheel for example). My one idea though about overflow would be a point a click model. Instead of dragging/dropping items into your hand, if there's not enough space, why not prompt players to click a selection of items to remove and then where to place (like Hearthstone battlecries, or MTG/Runeterra multiple targeting spells). I can see how that wouldn't help much though. Not sure I dig the overflow/delete idea. When you first mentioned it, I thought it would push items off the side and "disable" them. Then maybe you could choose to drag/drop them around "disabling" certain items, or choosing to delete them. There's a dilemma between card permanence and durability. It feels like cards need to go at some point to keep the game moving. I look forward to seeing how you guys address this. I was a little worried where the game was going from update #3, but this update definitely secured my excitement. Lets hope development goes well.
This is the video I’ve been waiting for! Love the card size mechanic and the new board looks great! I just have one question. On the new game board where are the opponents stores? There is just one center area on this new board model
The durability mechanic definitely sounded better than the size mechanic , i would rather be able to get 20 cards that last a couple uses each than just fiddle around with a couple cards . And also durability cost means there are reasons to not mindlessly play cards
I understand what you guys are going for, but not having discrete numerical values like a mana cost to gage a card's value probably just ends making things less clear, not more. Even something like Monster Train has a visual indicator for the amount of space left on a given floor via "pips".
I think the direction the game is now heading in is interesting but my one gripe is that if a random person was tune in to a match mid way they may not be able to get a good first impression of what is happening with the cards. The new board makes me think that these are just cards on a table with no clear indication of what are my cards or my opponents or the shops besides relative distance. I think this may be due to the placing of character portraits or that every card has the same colored boarder. Also although the new board is very pretty and sleek I feel like it lost some of the charm that the old board just kinda seems to ooze. The size mechanism is real cool and makes think of item combinations like infinite durability and a bigger size but minor effect. Also weapons could lose durability when fighting a tough monster or attacking face. I don't dislike the art direction the game is taking but I hope to see more quirky or "bazaar" characters going forward. Thanks for reading!
I like the item size mechanic. But will the item's visual size always represent how powerful it is, not how "big" the object would be? E.g. a very powerful ring would take up more space than a low tier platebody? (idk the exact items in the game but i hope you understand what I mean)
Instead of items overflowing and falling off maybe they could be added to a an extra deck. Perhaps every turn cycle you can decide to put cards from your extra deck back into play. Just and idea
I have been following these updates and agreed with everything you said and implemented but this size thing seems a bit odd. Imagine 1 super fat card compared with a really small one, it just doesn´t feels right on the hand I guess.
Would it not be possible to compromise on a semi-durability system, where the items have a durability counter, but don't break after that counts down? Essentially, a dagger might have 3 durability, a point of which is lost each time it's used. Then, when it's durability "runs out," instead of being destroyed, it gets weakened (in stats, size, etc.), yet still stays on the board. It could either be used as a worse item or even lose 'usability' and just remain there with a passive bonus, buffing the adjacent items or what-not. That would also help players feel better about removing items from the board (thru overflow), if they positioned the used-up items on the sides, as they had served their better purpose already. No idea if any of that's good for your game specifically, maybe you've thought and talked it over already... Love the game still, and enjoy these concepts vids even more :) Cheers!
The overflow mechanic sounds very convoluted and unintuitive, couldn't there be a simple recicle/trash zone, where you drag your items to be discarded in exchange for a minor advantage (A shop reroll, a bit of health, some way to upgrade other items, etc). A card falling of seems worst than it being attacked by an opponent, when an opponent attacks you at least they are using their resources, but when you buy a new item you shouldn't feel punished for playing the game. I would be more satisfied to pick an item to recicle than having it "fall off". It also increases design space, you could have items that do something when they get recycled.
Why not selling items back to merchants add a rate proportional to the remaining durability. Also I echo the idea that limiting the cards cost to be equal across the board feels anti thematic
What if the cards had a health number instead of a durability value? It would add design space (by having cards that can damage the other player's items) but without the "bad feeling" of losing durability on each use.
Personally, board positioning isn't something I want to care about. It's not something I've enjoyed in hearthstone and often feels more like a punishment for NOT having good positioning.
add a mechanic that 'gains' or is 'buffed' when a card is pushed off, ie, this minion gains 1 attack for every pushed off card when on the field, or a 10 mana card that is reduced by 1 cost whenever a card is pushed off. Something along those lines. Really try to ingrain this new 'push-off' or 'over-flow' mechanic.
While this is definitely not the game I first signed up for it is looking like it'll be a fun new experience and I'm excited to try it out.
Thank you for being understanding! I really think we've retained all of the strengths of a deckbuilder, except for board game nostalgia.
Thank you for your support, Rachel! Your expectations are the exact ones we want to live up to. We believe that every change has been made for the sole purpose of making the game more fun for players. Thank you for being on the journey with us!
The size mechanic is a stroke of genius! So intuitive. Love it
Gotta agree turns out behind that massive forehead is a massive brain! Love finally getting a peak at the current progress of the game
Ben deserves most of the credit for this one. The idea stemmed from us talking about changing the size of cards as a mechanic
Big brain Reynad wanted to prove to you nerds once again that size matters.
reynad I’m eager to see what neat mechanics and effects you will come up with stemming from it! It has a lot of potential for decision-making
If you wanna try it it is in a few games already. Dicey Dungeons is one of my favs
The new board design is leaps ahead of what you guys had, amazing work! - love these update videos.
Hope there is Discard piles for overflow. My favorite interaction in card game is graveyard mechanic.
Yeah, I think that also helps remedy the negative feeling of having an item you really like getting destroyed. But in order to not have that ruin the feel of other mechanics, maybe one type of the killable minions allows you to dig in your discard pile? Something costly like that but not convoluted.
Scrap collector would be a cool class for this mechanic
Gotta second this some scrap collector graveyard shenanigans class would be awesome!
what about being able to sell items for gold instead of having them overflow? I mean it's a Bazaar! maybe let the player fuse items on the board to then sell the upgraded item for more than the sum of its parts (like fusion in yugioh). the enemy will want to stop you from making a fortune, by destroying your most valuable item on the board. and if he can't clear it, you can sell it and buy something extremely powerful!
maybe I'm missing something, just some thoughts after watching the video.
great work btw guys, keep it up! :)
fusing items/combining would give A TON of design space, like completing item sets, that would then combine to form 1 item that takes up less board space.
really like the new board and direction, make it slick and simple, easier to run on any platform and easy to tell whats going on!! keep up the good work
The new clean board and the size mechanic are great. Loving the art too. Hope it launches soon!
I can't take the advertiser voice seriously but this is still a genuine love for a game you're clearly excited for and I'm still very excited for. Keep up the good work!
Another cool idea that would mesh pretty well with the size mechanic is cards with tetris like shapes that interlock. If they interlock they gain a special effect, similar to meeting a condition in other digital card games. I think this would encourage even more thought about the order or placement of where to put your next card.
thats genius i hope @raynad sees this
The size mechanic is genius! I love it.
But hey, it's a Bazaar! Why can't we sell our items to the merchants? It seems like such an obvious solution to board space management that I feel like I might be missing something that makes it not work. If you can buy items, it makes sense that you would also be able to sell them. That would make it feel like you are actually at the Bazaar participating in the action!
Edit to highlight another commenter's comment: the durability could be its "health" value, as in how many points of damage it can take before breaking, but with no natural decay. Then they could be removed either by selling or by being destroyed.
Also, I think the items having different costs to buy is extremely important to the theme. I can't see an obvious drawback to having different purchasing costs AND size being levers to pull.
LOVE these update videos. Keep up the good work.
We explained in earlier videos why we removed money as a resource. We also explained that we made every item cost the same because it shifted the focus toward the effect of the card rather than how efficient they are
@@reynad27 Right, I remember. I watch all the videos (really good stuff). I'm just doubting if it was the right call, theme-wise is all. Im not sure the trade-off is worth it. Additionally, if you could sell items to the Bazaar to clear your hand, you could tweak different cards' Sell prices also, for additional 'levers to pull' for design space.
Also, quick thank you for always reading and responding. I've gotten to have a few conversations with you and I definitely feel heard as a fan.
@@BlueRaptorTV Will definitely revisit this. A lot of people feel the way you do
@@reynad27 I haven't put any significant amount of time into this idea, it was just the first thing that came to mind regarding 1) making it feel like a bazaar but 2) avoiding money as a resource:
Maybe there's a way to implement trading as a mechanic. It would feel equally bazaar-esque, maybe even more so tbh, and could open up further design space.
Knowing how exactly to do it, and whether it's even a good idea, would require some thought. Maybe make it work based on a pseudo-currency, like item rarity; every item has a rarity (the usual suspects like common, rare, epic, legendary) and you can only trade off items for others of equal rarity. Then there could even be cards or effects that affect a player's "exchange rate", like allowing you to go +1 on your next trade and get a legendary for your epic or whatever.
Just some random food for thought, mostly wanted to convey the idea of trading in general and I am sure you guys will know how to determine what to do with it :)
I really like the idea of the card size mechanic, but the notion of the card gold cost being removed seems antithematic to me. The whole premise of this game is that you're in an intergalactic bazaar/marketplace, why wouldn't the items cost gold/currency?
Dont look at it like that anymore. No longer is the game about how much resource you have to buy stuff, but that it's about what you choose to buy and that's now your resource to manage. You have all the money you need to buy whatever you want. You're in an intergalactic bazaar. Why spend your time counting pennies when it's easier to just swipe your space credit card to get whatever you want and manage where you put it all. I'm a fan.
I think that gold/currency might end up more of a merchant class identity thing rather than an overall game theme but I’m not 100% good observation though I’d be shattered if there wasn’t some kind of special bazaar coin in the game at all
Maybe some effects to reduce size of item. Instead of losing durability, the item gets smaller, and its effect/special power gets weaker.
Keep up the good work. I'm excited to try it out
Brain already racking with all the types on mechanics you can have with this current system. inb4, “Big Overflow Chef Meta is too strong!” “10 Item Merchant Exodia Combo -The Dream.”
One thing I love to see is how in order to explain (and I assume develop) mechanics physical tiles/cards are used. Considering the game is inspired by physical board/card games it's great to strive towards a game that at least 'physically' is intuitive and functions not too dissimilar from an actual card game.
I also love that cards' numerical values are being reduced. Reminds me of processes in product design about cognition-based vs perception-based interfaces, where cognition-based interfaces rely on labeling (e.g. a button for sound has a picture of a speaker on it) and perception-based interfaces don't (e.g. an unlabeled button for sound is located near the actual speaker, has ridges to indicate turning, etc.). 'Card Size' being a mechanic is great because it plays directly into the 'physical' element of the card, which is more perception-based and intuitive and easier to learn, as well as easier to process in a moment-to-moment overview of the battlefield.
Considering 'playing' the game itself is already a cognitive experience (relying on knowledge, arithmetic etc. to process information) I'd imagine you want the base game and perceptible elements to be as perception-based as possible, while not losing complexity.
Love this direction! I think there's a lot to learn from following this process.
I've always been excited for this game, but now I'm HYPED! Thank you for taking your time!!
I like the idea of using board space as pseudo mana, have you thought about expanding each players board in the Y axis? Basically a slightly taller rectangle or square. That would let you introduce items with different shapes and sizes and 2 dimensional item positioning (instead of just positioning on a horizontal plane like cards in hearthstone). Loving the updates!
Very interseting! I love seeing all the thoughts and decisions of the process. Also love the new board, it looks beautiful and clean!
I get more and more interested with each update. Looks great.
I would like to see, maybe as a late-game item, or just as the game progresses, the amount of slots to put items into increase. Just because I think the late game will be a little lacking with those limited slots and items being all the same cost.
Also, I'd love to see some sort of way to see/take back pushed off items, that can be interacted with and only seen via certain items, or maybe even a character's ability.
Also, fusing items/combining would give A TON of design space, like completing item sets, that would then combine to form 1 item that takes up less board space. the synergies that these items could have with combinations would be really interesting to see!!!
i love this new design and im really looking forward to the gameplay. Great work reynad and the bazaar team!!!!!
A different flavour of overflow might be to allow players to slide the left-most and right-most items off of their board to make room to buy new ones (and being unable to buy new ones while their board is full). Same mechanic in essence but removes the need for a point-click interface when buying a new item. (also optionally gives the opportunity for a left and right side discard pile or a combined single one, only of course if you wanted that design space).
Separately, I think it's important to be sparing with mechanics that destroy opponent's items. Given that the board and hand are a combined entity, it can be very similar to hand destruction mechanics in other games which are pretty controversial and un-fun on the receiving end.
Would be interested in your thoughts on these ideas. I keep getting more and more excited after every update video! I'm convinced that with all the talent, passion and hard work behind this game it is bound to be a hit. You have something special here!
I think the overflow mechanic is awesome. Do you think it plausible to have malleable card sizes? For instance, small gives +1, medium gives +2, large +4? I'm sure you've already thought of this, but overflow effects would be amazing and make the losing of that card part of a plan and not feel as bad.
Awesome changes. One suggestion I would have with the removal of a deck slot, is to use that board space for a field or stadium slot like in yugioh/pokemon. Those always feel good to buy if balanced correctly.
Nice to finally see the actual game! (At least what I'm assuming is very close to current state of the game) Seems unique in comparison to other strategy games.
Regarding the push off mechanic, I wonder how you'd be able to choose which side to push off? (And in the case of bigger items, how many items to push off) The only thing I could think of is putting it the furthest on either side, which might force you to mess up future strategies regarding placement. That could either be fun or annoying, but I can't really tell without having seen the full game... It does seem like a very intuitive and simple solution though. If you don't want the player to worry about that, maybe let them reorder the positioning however they'd like during their turn? Though that could maybe turn the hand into some sort of needlessly complicated puzzler sub-game... idk. Another way to free up space could be to sell items? Though I have no idea how that mechanic would impact the game as a whole (or is that mechanic in the game already?).
You're asking great questions and this is all stuff we had to wrestle with. It should be covered in future updates
I love love love the size concept as different from mana-cost. It seems like an area of play that other games don't have, but also a natural restriction of physically buying things in a store. Some class options that interact with it flavorfully without being *too* complex:
Merchant: when he overflows, he 'sells' the lost card in some way automatically (maybe just heals your face a bit to keep it simple, idk).
Fisherman (Reynad's fav :P): Use smaller cards as 'bait' for larger ones, maybe adding durability to the bought card? Then a cheapo card with high durability is useful to the class so a brittle card can be held for longer
Wizard/Scientist/Magician: Make cards larger/smaller in some way. (smaller decreases durability, larger increases. But increasing opponent's card size causes others to fall off). Could also make things disappear for a turn
Werewolf: I know the day/night thing may be on the outs, but having cards change sizes when each turn corresponding to if they are wolfish or not could be fun. So you time your buys so half your board is wolfish at a time so they don't squeeze each other off
And the continued morphing of the game is great. Like, it's practically unrecognizable from the start, but I love seeing the process
Really like the use of space to represent board size (literally).
Btw your B-Cam isn't color-coordinated/white-balanced with your A-Cam. Way more orange.
If the spaces on the board is fixed like a grid (think resident evil 4 but without verticality )could players not just reorganize the items how they want in the hand before buying and overflowing? I like the inventory management aspect of being able to reposition items and adapt to the situation. Also now I just want a mad scientist class with a giant ray-gun that shrinks and enlarges items, honey I shrunk the kids style.
Ben is flexing on us with that hoodie!!
Maybe an interesting thing to include on the board is a item overflow bin on either side of the item holder space allowing for items that are pushed off the board space to go into. How these overflow bins allow for interactions later on are limitless, but say the bin perhaps can hold 1-3 items on each side, and at some point you have a option to bring 1 or 2 out and replace them with items on the board. After this is done the overflow bins are closed for the remainder of the game OR perhaps there are interactions later on dependent on "X" that allow you to rummage around in this these bins again.
I think size is a really elegant work around to avoid arithmetic as you mentioned. Hope you guys also borrow the "eye" from runeterra as knowing what is going to happen as the stack/combat resolves (if the game ends up having a stack) instead of guessing is also very nice from a user perspective. Visually I don't love how the cards currently look on the board but the board itself is 10/10, 100x better than the previous version. Looks much more like what you would expect from a tipple A title vs. the old one which was more like something like shadow verse (not bad but not fantastic).
This game is sounding more and more fun with every video. Can't wait to play it.
What if you implemented something like automatic decay. Every turn cycle a sandstorm sweeps over the board and reduces all durability by one. Then you know when you buy an item that it will last a maximum of X turn cycles and it shouldn't feel bad using it. It gives you another timing and another mechanic to design around. You can have items that are unaffected by the decay (some keyword). Some powerful items that will only be around for one turn cycle (unless you have ways of protecting them from decay). Just an idea. You might have already tested it.
Cant wait for this the new board looks much better!
This series is aweeome
Well done cleaning up the board looks sharp and clean and I’d imagine it will be better not only for game functionality but also will be a bit more simple for either new or younger players in the future of the game. PS. well done noodle proud of you and this wonderful thing you’re creating can’t wait for official release
Thank you!
Love the outro music! Really hope it makes it into the final game.
It would be cool if you could sell stuff to make space. Sold stuff could maybe be picked up by the other player. I really like the overflow mechanic as well!
I really like the size and inventory mechanics, but I think it would work best if the 10 inventory slots were locked in place (kind of like the inventory of an oldschool rpg like PoE) and you could put items in whatever place you have space to do so (you could buy your first item and place it on position 4 waiting for synergies on 3 and 5), it would give a clear image of your gameplan and the resources you have access to
Maybe in order for you to make room on your board you can introduce a selling option. Being able to sell a item for a fraction of the price, to clear up board space. This way you don’t feel you lost the item for nothing. You at least feel that you get a portion of your money back.
Wow that new board is incredible! Love this update video because we learned so much about the mechanics of the game! I don't understand something though. You said that you don't want durability in the game, but then you mentioned that durability is still in the game at the end of the video. So which is it?
So in the overflow model what happens when you need to "push out" one size worth of stuff, but only have two size items? Do items get cut in half?
You probably lose the full card. This will encourage putting large cards in middle
Love the new board and design space ideas, as well as durability. But I agree with those saying that the overflow mechanic is antithematic and unintuitive and I would add that it does not fit into the tight aesthetic that you have established so far. Selling, scrapping or some other mechanic that makes sense to fit into a bazaar would be better. Or even just rework and rename "overflow" to something like "clear the counter" or "overburdened" or something of the like so it fits into the actual aesthetic.
This is fresh, this is good! I just hope the games don't become tooo long though
Thanks for the update! To try out these rule changes, do you have alpha dev builds made, or playing IRL with fake cards? Either way it’d be sick to see an example game played out in a future video
I'd like to see an item-selling mechanic. Makes sense for the theme of the game. Under certain conditions, an item can increase in value (every time they are used, when a certain card is played, when the turn ends, etc), and once you've developed an item enough, it benefits you to sell it and replace it with something else. Of course this does reintroduce prices back into the game, but maybe in a more fulfilling way.
I think it will add another layer of strategy if the cards you placed didnt immediately go to the center. For example if you had 1 space on the left side and 2 spaces on the right side available, and you wanted to buy a card that used up 4 spaces you'd be forced to overflow one side or the other. This results in you having to overflow two cards if you place the 4 space card on either side. However if you had the ability to preplan what you wanted to overflow by having fixed positions, it opens up a new angle to approach the game from. You could place all the cards on the left side have 3 open spaces on the right side, then you can overflow only one card that's occupying one space. Just a suggestion, completely fine if it's not implemented.
If cards are locked in place it might be awkward to buy new cards, because you might push cards you want over the edge, when you would of rather of removed other cards on your board. There needs to be a visual cue to let you know whats being overflowed too. Maybe some cards could activate or interact with the overflow mechanic. It definently seems different, the game has gone through so many changes, I'm not really sure what to expect.
Looking forward to trying this game when it gets released :)
So I'm not sure if it was stated in the video but are you able to move the cards in your hand after you buy them? I was thinking that what you can do with overflow is "borrow" some space off the hand until the end of turn and allow you to use what you buy and what you have without forcing it off the board. At the end of turn anything on the borrowed area falls off and you lose it. So for example if you are borrowing one extra space and a three size card is there you can move it to put a one size card there and lose that at end of turn. Alternative you can leave the three size card and lose that gaining two extra hand space at the end of turn for next turn. Feel free to let me know how you guys feel about it and if it is confusing.
Fuck me! I am currently developing game with similar board placement mechanics!
Reynad, how did u get in to my head?)))
Jokes aside:
In gamedev, similar ideas can came in to diffrent peoples minds.
Keep going ! Love the new board !
Size mechanic and placement are both awesome, Game is making Huge steps and i like it, so typicaly is it a Fifo line or Lifo? does the 1st item you get(left most get out 1st) or the last(right most) when you are over the max size?
You could highlight the amount of space an item will take up in your hand space as you hover over it in the shop
Oh my...this is all becoming very well considered. Size is great, and getting rid of durability was a step in the right direction. BUT. You have limited your design space I think. Another mechanic that is similar to durability, but may be cognitively different is cooldown. Have different cooldowns for each item. It'd be neat to have a general rule of thumb for cool downs for each different item size too (i.e. all small items don't have a cool down, unless its like super rare or something). This also helps with the going face problem as actions are now more limited, and gives the opponent time to prepare for a powerful item getting off of cooldown. Maybe there's an even smarter way to design something similar. Looking forward to seeing more! Keep it up.
Super cool to follow, keep up the strong work guys!
Maybe a solution to the "laborsome efficiency management" problem with currency, is that you start with a large amount of it (displayed as a counter or something) that ticks down as you buy things; slowly adding back to it by selling items? So it would be pretty inconsequential in the end, but plays into the theme better. (And maybe can put a cap on some broken combos)
Edit: Even if currency seems pesky or convoluted, I don't think it feels that way; ecspecially in a bazaar. The tactile feel of the old build's full hand of coins to spend looked appealing, so maybe you could have a hand mechanic just for currency? IDK, I just think no money in a market themed game could be a misstep.
I like the direction where this is going and thought about what could happen if we just continued the trends concerning the concepts you've described in these videos, here goes.
So, what about if you had the board where you placed the items with specific positions, but also a hand AND draw/discard piles.
If you had a graveyard in addition to that, I would agree, that would be a bit too much complexity there, so why don't we just make the discard pile and graveyard invisible to the player, and rather invoke them only through certain keywords on your items, since the player won't be interacting with them a lot anyways.
We can't have the hand or deck size become too large though, since, as you said, there would be too many cards on the screen.
So what if we just restrict the hand size to, say, 10 cards. And the deck could maybe be around 30 I guess.
Now that we solved that, we get the best of both worlds.
Not only that, you even get a ton more triggers and levers through these very simple additions. Now you can treat retrieving something from your deck, OR discard pile OR graveyard into a resource that has value and is transparent to the player.
You could even make cards that manipulate your own hand size (increase to 12?) and you can interact with way more things on your opponent's side as well (make them discard cards?).
...
...I don't know but you've probably realized at this point that we've basically created Hearthstone now lol. Turns out the folks at Blizzard really did consider a shit ton of stuff and I'm sure you're very aware you can still learn a lot from them. Nevertheless, you've got a great thing going here and I hope you keep innovating and improving every possible aspect of the game!
The new board looks very intuitive, I'm curious about how class specific items will show up though based on the space in the middle being the same size as each players "hand". I think the positioning of everything makes sense in regards to the hero portrait being centred but I'm curious if you ever considered moving the space lower down to make the shop fronts bigger, and subsequently having hero portrait on the side to use the space differently and eliminate the "empty" space on the sides for example. Did that impact the toys maybe? Also as far as looking at this board, I'm unsure of exactly where a monster would attack. Maybe the slots on the side of the board would show "wanted" posters with images of a monster that you can "attack" to get the rewards? This is of course assuming monsters still come into play. One thing I'm not sure if you've considered changing, as the project has continued is the win condition. Have you tried there being something different than just hitting the opponents portrait? Maybe having some kind of target that both players want to hit first such as overall Gold balance which of course can be manipulated by interacting with your opponent similarly to attacking them, but with a more mercantile flavour than just violent combat? Also on the topic of durability, while overflow looks like a clever mechanic, I wonder if you've considered having some kind of destroy your item mechanic rather than just reorganizing it to the side. Maybe each item could have some kind of "ultimate" effect, where you can use all of its durability and destroy it but it does something stronger than it normally would, adding design space, and making the destruction of items feel more fun. In this regard you might not even need durability at all?
The one thing I worry about with this boardspace mechanic is that we start to approaching autobattlers balancing meta. If I know what boardstates "win" I'm then rolling for those winning comps and winning or losing is decided by who gets there first.
I have no clue if this is how things play out in your game, just a good thing to be mindful of. It could be a good thing as well, as long as it's the path you want to move in that's really cool!
I like autobattlers, and the path getting to winning comps can be varied in far more ways than we see today and I'm sure The Bazaar will have a ton of other aspects to it's game. There's nothing wrong with having wincontidions as long as it's fun for both players getting there :)
Size mechanic seems interesting but will the interface allow it?. If have item card will it be shown the same size as the rest and it will resize when you Play it? Dont get me wrong but it feels a little off.
I think the board overflow is great but it should be kept alongside the durability. I felt durability was a really solid mechanic.
On the new board it looks like there is only three items in the shared middle row. Does that mean both players now buy from the same item pool as apposed to their own shops on the old board? In previous videos, you also talked about making cards/art unique to each character, but if its a shared item shop, how would that work now?
I like the idea of positioning being important in your personal board space, but it would be sad to see cards enter the Overflow and be deleted. An idea would be that the deleted overflow cards go into a graveyard of sorts that may be accessible through other mechanics. Just a thought. I absolutely love the game thus far!
How about being able to move your items in your hand (Battlegrounds being the most obvious comparison) so you can control what gets overwritten
Or just a discard that you can drag and drop into
Hey, haven't played the game so this might feel like a dumb question.
Why didn't you implement a Sell mechanic? You're in a Bazaar, there are buyers everywhere. Maybe a Value mechanic so that when you sell something you've used, you've used it and the merchant wants to sell it for market value, so you get less for it. And with or without a value mechanic, it being destroyed still hurts the owner since they can't sell it.
Or if coins and value aren't part of the game now, selling items could let you draw cards at random, into your hand?
Food for thought.
What if I want to get rid of left most card? Could a grid help with the direct replacement, 10 slots in a grid . Which seems to give more options to the player, other than discarding the left most card.
Just like in Dicey Duneons
I love the size!!! But don’t take away the cost of items, it is a marketplace after all?? Have it be another axis. If I want a small AND powerful item it should cost more money to buy than a big item with a similar effect
As a backer, the aesthetic and functionality of card sizes took me from being interested to super excited. As Reynad said, the board looks really nice, unique and simple, and the sample they showed of the card sizes looked unique and intuitive. Also, the removal of the hand ironically re-introduces some of the aesthetic features previous cut (the pirate ship wheel for example).
My one idea though about overflow would be a point a click model. Instead of dragging/dropping items into your hand, if there's not enough space, why not prompt players to click a selection of items to remove and then where to place (like Hearthstone battlecries, or MTG/Runeterra multiple targeting spells). I can see how that wouldn't help much though.
Not sure I dig the overflow/delete idea. When you first mentioned it, I thought it would push items off the side and "disable" them. Then maybe you could choose to drag/drop them around "disabling" certain items, or choosing to delete them.
There's a dilemma between card permanence and durability. It feels like cards need to go at some point to keep the game moving. I look forward to seeing how you guys address this.
I was a little worried where the game was going from update #3, but this update definitely secured my excitement. Lets hope development goes well.
Point and click is what we're using now for overflow. Pushing off the side was frustrating
This is the video I’ve been waiting for! Love the card size mechanic and the new board looks great! I just have one question. On the new game board where are the opponents stores? There is just one center area on this new board model
We'll get to that in an upcoming video!
The durability mechanic definitely sounded better than the size mechanic , i would rather be able to get 20 cards that last a couple uses each than just fiddle around with a couple cards . And also durability cost means there are reasons to not mindlessly play cards
I understand what you guys are going for, but not having discrete numerical values like a mana cost to gage a card's value probably just ends making things less clear, not more. Even something like Monster Train has a visual indicator for the amount of space left on a given floor via "pips".
If there are only 3-4 item sizes that shouldn't be an issue. Players will get a grasp on it quickly.
Maybe allow selling items for health? like regain +1 hp per size of the item
I think the direction the game is now heading in is interesting but my one gripe is that if a random person was tune in to a match mid way they may not be able to get a good first impression of what is happening with the cards. The new board makes me think that these are just cards on a table with no clear indication of what are my cards or my opponents or the shops besides relative distance. I think this may be due to the placing of character portraits or that every card has the same colored boarder. Also although the new board is very pretty and sleek I feel like it lost some of the charm that the old board just kinda seems to ooze. The size mechanism is real cool and makes think of item combinations like infinite durability and a bigger size but minor effect. Also weapons could lose durability when fighting a tough monster or attacking face. I don't dislike the art direction the game is taking but I hope to see more quirky or "bazaar" characters going forward. Thanks for reading!
Thanks for the feedback!
I like the item size mechanic. But will the item's visual size always represent how powerful it is, not how "big" the object would be? E.g. a very powerful ring would take up more space than a low tier platebody? (idk the exact items in the game but i hope you understand what I mean)
Big items tend to be thematically larger IRL objects, and have more durability than small ones.
Instead of items overflowing and falling off maybe they could be added to a an extra deck. Perhaps every turn cycle you can decide to put cards from your extra deck back into play. Just and idea
New board is so much cleaner
poggers
I have been following these updates and agreed with everything you said and implemented but this size thing seems a bit odd. Imagine 1 super fat card compared with a really small one, it just doesn´t feels right on the hand I guess.
Allow the player to rearrange the cards when he plays a card that would overflow and stop when they click next or something
P.S. your videos advertise for Hearthstone in their description. They think that's what you're talking about.
I'm spacially dumb please make it easy to see how much space you have
Can't wait!!
I love these videos
What about selling items back to vendors?????????????
looks interesting
Would it not be possible to compromise on a semi-durability system, where the items have a durability counter, but don't break after that counts down?
Essentially, a dagger might have 3 durability, a point of which is lost each time it's used. Then, when it's durability "runs out," instead of being destroyed, it gets weakened (in stats, size, etc.), yet still stays on the board. It could either be used as a worse item or even lose 'usability' and just remain there with a passive bonus, buffing the adjacent items or what-not.
That would also help players feel better about removing items from the board (thru overflow), if they positioned the used-up items on the sides, as they had served their better purpose already.
No idea if any of that's good for your game specifically, maybe you've thought and talked it over already... Love the game still, and enjoy these concepts vids even more :)
Cheers!
Reynad said in reddit Item works like minion in Hearthstone
attache case management
please no dome topped cards, make them all rectangles
Yeah those are gone. Old mockup
If you can buy cards, shouldn't you be able to sell them too?
The overflow mechanic sounds very convoluted and unintuitive, couldn't there be a simple recicle/trash zone, where you drag your items to be discarded in exchange for a minor advantage (A shop reroll, a bit of health, some way to upgrade other items, etc).
A card falling of seems worst than it being attacked by an opponent, when an opponent attacks you at least they are using their resources, but when you buy a new item you shouldn't feel punished for playing the game.
I would be more satisfied to pick an item to recicle than having it "fall off". It also increases design space, you could have items that do something when they get recycled.
Why not selling items back to merchants add a rate proportional to the remaining durability. Also I echo the idea that limiting the cards cost to be equal across the board feels anti thematic
What if the cards had a health number instead of a durability value? It would add design space (by having cards that can damage the other player's items) but without the "bad feeling" of losing durability on each use.
I like this. You could actually still call it durability, as in "how many hits it can take before breaking". There is just no natural decay.
Reynad confirmed it will work like this in reddit
Personally, board positioning isn't something I want to care about. It's not something I've enjoyed in hearthstone and often feels more like a punishment for NOT having good positioning.
Board positioning adds another layer of design space and caters to serious players. Having good positioning and being rewarded feels reaally good
@@GjemliKallinn I've literally played in the master's tour. Still don't find bookkeeping fun. It has nothing to do with seriousness.
@@xKumei hearthstone board positions isnt as fun as yugioh's for example. it can be done in a way that isnt just bookkeeping
add a mechanic that 'gains' or is 'buffed' when a card is pushed off, ie, this minion gains 1 attack for every pushed off card when on the field, or a 10 mana card that is reduced by 1 cost whenever a card is pushed off. Something along those lines. Really try to ingrain this new 'push-off' or 'over-flow' mechanic.