This was so good. It transcended: time, fact, fiction, mystery, movies, documentaries, race, survival, legendary historical figures. Well done! I don’t believe I’ve seen anything like it.
I am absolutely fascinated by the history of Arctic exploration and the lost expedition of Sir John, Captains Crozier, Fitzjames and all the other 126 men of the Erebus and Terror. I have read everything I can on the subject. I still hope for the day when the diaries and accounts of those men are found, which can shed light on the remaining mysteries. One thing has always bothered me about this tragedy. It was common for Royal Navy ships on exploration to leave frequent messages on stone cairns, at sea or with other ships, perhaps whalers. It is very intriguing that only the 2 messages left at Victory Point have been found, the first signed by Lieutenant Gore, and later, on the same paper, the information added by Crozier and Fitzjames. Despite everything we know, there is still much to be learned before we understand what really happened to those 129 men. Thank you for sharing this excellent documentary.
I agree 100%. I too am fascinated and have read everything. Where are the messages? It's so very strange! I look forward to any findings from the ships! Best wishes from Oz
Yes was surprised by the lack of written documentation that might of been left by the crew - this might of given insight into the physical and mental condition of the expedition.
I’m almost certain there is some info in croziers desk in the ship. They will eventually go through cabinets and desks. Like yourself, I can’t wait. This expedition is fascinating. I live in a sailboat since I got out of the army and have sailed to see the graves on beechey and even found some old old tin cans. I haven’t had anyone tell me for certain if they came from the expedition but they are old enough to and found in an area they camped. And as you stated I can only imagine what else is laying in the cold ground or buried somewhere and we just have never found it.
An excellent film-documentary mix. And my respect for the outstanding acting from the artists and the exciting history lesson from people from all over the world. Thanks.
Yes, Doug Stenton's team was able to do DNA testing on a tooth from a mandible, located in a site of the remains of 13 Franklin men in Erebus Bay -- on the western coast of King William Island. Alas, the mandible had clear cut marks, consistent with cannibalism.
There is a lot to unpack in this documentary. It brings to mind the cannibalism that occurred in the Donner Party on their trek to California. This did not cause an outrage among the US Americans, but rather was looked upon as a tragedy of survival.
fascinating. Feeling ashamed that the British then and even in part now don't acknowledge the truth and keep on being offensive, or should I say, savage, while pretending to be oh so well mannered. Thanks to John Walker and others for making a true effort to make up by deeds and not just reluctant words from a distance.
My theory is that when franklin left greenland to head towards the northwest passage, his ship got stuck in the ice since the notes on victory point indicate that the ships were stuck in the ice, and that possibly the canned food they ate was improperly sealed and were soldiered with lead, and that the bodies found on beachy island contained high lead dosages which would have weaken the immune system and fueled the chances of getting deceases like respiratory and breathing infections, tuberculosis, and also other things from tainted canned food. Then around 1848, the crew decided to abandon one of the ships after a few officers including franklin passed away and sent the other ship to search for help, after the crew abandoned the ships, they used their row boats to carry their supplies and headed south in hopes to make it to a fort or civilization, but their supplies would have been running low by that point since they didn't think they were going to be frozen in ice. Then along the way south, the crew would have had been exposed to the freezing conditions of the arctic and would have had only simple canvas tents and limited fuel for fire, but they could have been able to find small game to eat as by this point it was possible that by this point their rations would have started to spoil since stuff like bottled lemon juice would have started to lose it's effectiveness over time, which could lead to scurvy. Now the crew who were ill, starving, and frostbitten eventually made contact with the inuit as they said that they found " a group of white men" who were starving and heading south, the inuit also reported that bthey saw the ships sank slowly over time due to the ice and that one of the ships, likely Erebus due to the shallow waters it was found in, was seen having one of it's masts sticking out of the ice. Later on the Inuit would find abandoned camps with body parts that were chopped or cooked up for cannibalism and equipment salvaged from the ships, and later Schwatka’s expedition found some of these sites with the help of the Inuit. But likely after the rations spoiled or ran out, the crew would have resorted to cannibalism as it's been a common thing with people in dire situations with low to none food. The crew would have probably started with the dead, but judging from the cut marks on the hands, the crew likely started to turn on each other even if they were christian or not, but later on forensics showed the cut marks on the bones proving either cannibalism or attacks, but from what ive gathered, the inuits stories were consistent and seemed to be proven correct, although it could be always be a different situation but we will never know. But I think that the Inuit man in this documentary proves a point that the crew likely didn't find the northwest passage since there isn't any proof, and that accusing the inuit of murdering Franklins men isn't fair since there is more proof and likeliness of cannibalism is at play because the inuit has no reason to attack the crew, and attacking them would likely lead to being exiled from their community like that inuit man said. And trying to put the blame of the men of the expedition on the Inuit because Franklins men were christian and the inuit were 'savages' and 'indulged themselves' is absolute rubbish, and it is hard to rationalize such an unthinkable act, but it's another thing to put the blame on another group and slander them, This is just boldness and arrogance to protect the reputation of rich British people, and not taking the blame and excepting the fact that the expedition was ill equipped and ended in failure. Overall i'm not saying that this is exactly what happened on the expedition, but i'm sure that in the future there will be more evidence of what happened, and that all people who study this subject should be open to other theories of what happened and not be one sided or biased on certain beliefs.
Do you think the cut marks could have come from chopping frozen flesh? It takes a good chop to get a piece of frozen meat. Afaik, the traditional inuit tools were made of wood and bone, rarely stone and malleable steel, if they were lucky. Wood wouldn't have left a clean cut, nor would bone it'd shatter. Ernest Coleman speaks about an open-mind but does not have one himself. Hrm curiouser and curiouser
The distillation towers used were lead-lined, and when salt water was run through them, they would add more lead to their drinking water. Scurvy, Tuberculosis Lead Poisoning and Botchulism all added to their end.
@@kivfriedchicken Coleman was stating facts ,pathologists have that have looked at the bones said the cut marks on the bones of the hands were consistent with defensive wounds ! The Inuit gentleman ether didn’t understand the science or cared to . All he has is oral history passed down , which if you understand their language , is very patchy , from my understanding their language is very limited to the passing down certain details . There is another documentary on RUclips that explains this called frozen in ice .
You are probably right but this isnt your theory and I have no idea why you call it yours. It's like me talking about my theory of evolution because I read a book by Darwin.
Sir John Franklin had previously proven himself to be an accomplished leader and explorer. Even though he was 59, it was assumed he would do fine on this last expedition, because the ships were fitted out comfortably, and they believed Sir John and his men wouldn't have need to vacate them often.
That is correct. I respect John Franklin and all of the men. Although in the previous expedition where he lost 11 men and almost starved it was in part his fault he refused to turn back when it was suggested to him and he also insisted on stopping for tea causing the group to make far less distance than they needed to. Then Franklin expedition is fascinating if you get a chance read Erebus by Micheal plain and ice ghosts by Paul Watson
I firmly believe in what the Inuit gentleman had to say & the living history that has been handed down through the years. The British are still just as bigoted & closed minded as they were back at the time, I find the ex-RN Officer to have been very insultive & biased in his points of view & owes the Inuit peoples an apology. The Inuit people at the time traveled in small mostly family sized groups & used mostly handmade hunting weapons, if they did come upon even 20 of Franklins men who were armed with firearms etc they would have been on the losing side of any conflicts. My final thoughts on the discovery of a northwest passage is that the Franklin expedition did not discover the passage at all, they did not emerge on the west coast but perished halfway through a questionable channel. It is confounding how the British still bang on about his great achievement, they clearly dont have any modern maps & have misplaced their geography books as well.
@@fastinradfordabledoesn’t matter . Either way near all academics from around the world agree they discovered it even though they perished in it . So cry more .
If those were indeed defensive wounds, isn't it possible that these men received them while defending themselves from their own shipmates? Some men may have decided that those weaker should be killed and consumed? For this ex naval officer to say that there is no evidence of cannibalism flies in the face of current scientific investigations. Finally the establishment closed ranks to ensure that Dr John Rae was not knighted and Lady Jane Franklin has a lot to answer for herself.
Hypothetically. Some of the exclusive posh officer class canned food was contaminated. Perhaps with 'best' being saved for later / or at least it was not at first consumed by officers for a logical reason. If some of the ordinary men had a habit of pilfering & took this 'best' of it. First signs of illness was among those set back home early in the expedition. Later it kills the 3 found buried. Eventually the officers become terminally ill from the particular batch that is contaminated. Much later its the reason unopened food is found in places occupied by the deceased.
Looked at first like a nice gig ££$$ for quite a few luvvies and 'historians', but the guy who goes with the lnuits skins that Caribou fair play sir. Pushy Lady F. wasn't she, before, guilty afterwards? Dan weaved a fine story in his book from what was known fact and the TV series was, whilst a departure, very effective and lead me to read the book.
Has the navy guys butcher ever cut frozen meat, -40 deg meat. I'm sure it's like stone. Also, they found boiled bones in british pots on british stoves. If that guy is blindly on team uk, maybe he should be empathetic to how desperate the brits were that ate their friends... and maybe visit Nunavut. They won't eat you...hee, hee, hee.
I watched the program uninterrupted using RUclips Premium without commercials or interruptions. Very well done on moment in history still relevant after all these years.
This was so good. It transcended: time, fact, fiction, mystery, movies, documentaries, race, survival, legendary historical figures. Well done! I don’t believe I’ve seen anything like it.
I am absolutely fascinated by the history of Arctic exploration and the lost expedition of Sir John, Captains Crozier, Fitzjames and all the other 126 men of the Erebus and Terror.
I have read everything I can on the subject. I still hope for the day when the diaries and accounts of those men are found, which can shed light on the remaining mysteries.
One thing has always bothered me about this tragedy. It was common for Royal Navy ships on exploration to leave frequent messages on stone cairns, at sea or with other ships, perhaps whalers.
It is very intriguing that only the 2 messages left at Victory Point have been found, the first signed by Lieutenant Gore, and later, on the same paper, the information added by Crozier and Fitzjames.
Despite everything we know, there is still much to be learned before we understand what really happened to those 129 men.
Thank you for sharing this excellent documentary.
Hello - I did find it odd that so little information was left behind by the expedition.
I agree 100%. I too am fascinated and have read everything. Where are the messages? It's so very strange! I look forward to any findings from the ships! Best wishes from Oz
Yes was surprised by the lack of written documentation that might of been left by the crew - this might of given insight into the physical and mental condition of the expedition.
I’m almost certain there is some info in croziers desk in the ship. They will eventually go through cabinets and desks. Like yourself, I can’t wait. This expedition is fascinating. I live in a sailboat since I got out of the army and have sailed to see the graves on beechey and even found some old old tin cans. I haven’t had anyone tell me for certain if they came from the expedition but they are old enough to and found in an area they camped. And as you stated I can only imagine what else is laying in the cold ground or buried somewhere and we just have never found it.
Fascinating! I didn’t want it to end.
What a great documentary before the discovery of the Erebus and Terror.
Thanks the uploader has not stated the year that l can see.
This is an extraordinary production. I couldn't look away it was so captivating.
I am reading Ken McGoogan's book Searching for Franklin, right now. It's fascinating.
Fantastic book. Ice Ghosts by Paul Watson is very good too.
Check out Erebus and ice ghosts as well. Micheal plain wrote Erebus it is great as is ice ghosts as the other commenter suggested
This deserves so many more views & likes 👏👏👏👏
An excellent film-documentary mix. And my respect for the outstanding acting from the artists and the exciting history lesson from people from all over the world. Thanks.
Amazing documovie. Glad I came across it.
"The Terror "amc production is an entertaining take on this expedition.
I just read an online article in Smithsonian Magazine that Captain Fitzjames' remains were recently identified.
Yes, Doug Stenton's team was able to do DNA testing on a tooth from a mandible, located in a site of the remains of 13 Franklin men in Erebus Bay -- on the western coast of King William Island. Alas, the mandible had clear cut marks, consistent with cannibalism.
You should read the terror by dan Simmons great read
There is a lot to unpack in this documentary. It brings to mind the cannibalism that occurred in the Donner Party on their trek to California. This did not cause an outrage among the US Americans, but rather was looked upon as a tragedy of survival.
Great 👍
fascinating. Feeling ashamed that the British then and even in part now don't acknowledge the truth and keep on being offensive, or should I say, savage, while pretending to be oh so well mannered. Thanks to John Walker and others for making a true effort to make up by deeds and not just reluctant words from a distance.
What it basically comes down to is that they were refusing the Renaissance and acting like medieval morons.
These were incredibly brave men.
The navy guy was so disrespectful, I’m ashamed as a Brit to hear his arrogance.
What shocks me aside it all is that freemasonry will argue and argue even in historic cases.
My theory is that when franklin left greenland to head towards the northwest passage, his ship got stuck in the ice since the notes on victory point indicate that the ships were stuck in the ice, and that possibly the canned food they ate was improperly sealed and were soldiered with lead, and that the bodies found on beachy island contained high lead dosages which would have weaken the immune system and fueled the chances of getting deceases like respiratory and breathing infections, tuberculosis, and also other things from tainted canned food.
Then around 1848, the crew decided to abandon one of the ships after a few officers including franklin passed away and sent the other ship to search for help, after the crew abandoned the ships, they used their row boats to carry their supplies and headed south in hopes to make it to a fort or civilization, but their supplies would have been running low by that point since they didn't think they were going to be frozen in ice. Then along the way south, the crew would have had been exposed to the freezing conditions of the arctic and would have had only simple canvas tents and limited fuel for fire, but they could have been able to find small game to eat as by this point it was possible that by this point their rations would have started to spoil since stuff like bottled lemon juice would have started to lose it's effectiveness over time, which could lead to scurvy. Now the crew who were ill, starving, and frostbitten eventually made contact with the inuit as they said that they found " a group of white men" who were starving and heading south, the inuit also reported that bthey saw the ships sank slowly over time due to the ice and that one of the ships, likely Erebus due to the shallow waters it was found in, was seen having one of it's masts sticking out of the ice. Later on the Inuit would find abandoned camps with body parts that were chopped or cooked up for cannibalism and equipment salvaged from the ships, and later Schwatka’s expedition found some of these sites with the help of the Inuit. But likely after the rations spoiled or ran out, the crew would have resorted to cannibalism as it's been a common thing with people in dire situations with low to none food. The crew would have probably started with the dead, but judging from the cut marks on the hands, the crew likely started to turn on each other even if they were christian or not, but later on forensics showed the cut marks on the bones proving either cannibalism or attacks, but from what ive gathered, the inuits stories were consistent and seemed to be proven correct, although it could be always be a different situation but we will never know.
But I think that the Inuit man in this documentary proves a point that the crew likely didn't find the northwest passage since there isn't any proof, and that accusing the inuit of murdering Franklins men isn't fair since there is more proof and likeliness of cannibalism is at play because the inuit has no reason to attack the crew, and attacking them would likely lead to being exiled from their community like that inuit man said. And trying to put the blame of the men of the expedition on the Inuit because Franklins men were christian and the inuit were 'savages' and 'indulged themselves' is absolute rubbish, and it is hard to rationalize such an unthinkable act, but it's another thing to put the blame on another group and slander them, This is just boldness and arrogance to protect the reputation of rich British people, and not taking the blame and excepting the fact that the expedition was ill equipped and ended in failure.
Overall i'm not saying that this is exactly what happened on the expedition, but i'm sure that in the future there will be more evidence of what happened, and that all people who study this subject should be open to other theories of what happened and not be one sided or biased on certain beliefs.
You the man!!!
Do you think the cut marks could have come from chopping frozen flesh? It takes a good chop to get a piece of frozen meat. Afaik, the traditional inuit tools were made of wood and bone, rarely stone and malleable steel, if they were lucky. Wood wouldn't have left a clean cut, nor would bone it'd shatter. Ernest Coleman speaks about an open-mind but does not have one himself. Hrm curiouser and curiouser
The distillation towers used were lead-lined, and when salt water was run through them, they would add more lead to their drinking water. Scurvy, Tuberculosis Lead Poisoning and Botchulism all added to their end.
@@kivfriedchicken Coleman was stating facts ,pathologists have that have looked at the bones said the cut marks on the bones of the hands were consistent with defensive wounds !
The Inuit gentleman ether didn’t understand the science or cared to .
All he has is oral history passed down , which if you understand their language , is very patchy , from my understanding their language is very limited to the passing down certain details .
There is another documentary on RUclips that explains this called frozen in ice .
You are probably right but this isnt your theory and I have no idea why you call it yours. It's like me talking about my theory of evolution because I read a book by Darwin.
Sir John Franklin had previously proven himself to be an accomplished leader and explorer. Even though he was 59, it was assumed he would do fine on this last expedition, because the ships were fitted out comfortably, and they believed Sir John and his men wouldn't have need to vacate them often.
That is correct. I respect John Franklin and all of the men. Although in the previous expedition where he lost 11 men and almost starved it was in part his fault he refused to turn back when it was suggested to him and he also insisted on stopping for tea causing the group to make far less distance than they needed to. Then Franklin expedition is fascinating if you get a chance read Erebus by Micheal plain and ice ghosts by Paul Watson
I firmly believe in what the Inuit gentleman had to say & the living history that has been handed down through
the years. The British are still just as bigoted & closed minded as they were back at the time, I find the ex-RN Officer
to have been very insultive & biased in his points of view & owes the Inuit peoples an apology.
The Inuit people at the time traveled in small mostly family sized groups & used mostly handmade hunting weapons,
if they did come upon even 20 of Franklins men who were armed with firearms etc they would have been on the
losing side of any conflicts. My final thoughts on the discovery of a northwest passage is that the Franklin expedition
did not discover the passage at all, they did not emerge on the west coast but perished halfway through a questionable
channel. It is confounding how the British still bang on about his great achievement, they clearly dont have any modern
maps & have misplaced their geography books as well.
Discover the passage.
They didn’t even make it 1/4 the way 🥶🥶🥶
@@fastinradfordabledoesn’t matter .
Either way near all academics from around the world agree they discovered it even though they perished in it .
So cry more .
If those were indeed defensive wounds, isn't it possible that these men received them while defending themselves from their own shipmates? Some men may have decided that those weaker should be killed and consumed? For this ex naval officer to say that there is no evidence of cannibalism flies in the face of current scientific investigations. Finally the establishment closed ranks to ensure that Dr John Rae was not knighted and Lady Jane Franklin has a lot to answer for herself.
The Hall of Clestrain isn't very big. I imagine it was pretty cramped, since it was occupied by both the Rae family and their servants.
To be fair was looking to be a great upload but the ads made it unwatchable
Premium
What ads?
Anyone with ideas or theories please share them.
Hypothetically. Some of the exclusive posh officer class canned food was contaminated. Perhaps with 'best' being saved for later / or at least it was not at first consumed by officers for a logical reason. If some of the ordinary men had a habit of pilfering & took this 'best' of it. First signs of illness was among those set back home early in the expedition. Later it kills the 3 found buried. Eventually the officers become terminally ill from the particular batch that is contaminated. Much later its the reason unopened food is found in places occupied by the deceased.
the native esquimal , now come to say to apologize for what..
the natives and the crew nobody knows, why they didnt come to ..
Funny there is evidence of cannibalism now.
Looked at first like a nice gig ££$$ for quite a few luvvies and 'historians', but the guy who goes with the lnuits skins that Caribou fair play sir. Pushy Lady F. wasn't she, before, guilty afterwards? Dan weaved a fine story in his book from what was known fact and the TV series was, whilst a departure, very effective and lead me to read the book.
Has the navy guys butcher ever cut frozen meat, -40 deg meat. I'm sure it's like stone.
Also, they found boiled bones in british pots on british stoves.
If that guy is blindly on team uk, maybe he should be empathetic to how desperate the brits were that ate their friends... and maybe visit Nunavut. They won't eat you...hee, hee, hee.
RUINED by ADS every few minutes. 😢 Ear-shattering without warning. Look for it elsewhere.
I watched the program uninterrupted using RUclips Premium without commercials or interruptions. Very well done on moment in history still relevant after all these years.
@@AlanFenickThanks but premium not an option for me travelling the world and only occasional RUclips😮
Chill out homie, just be grateful
it is necesary show the deer killing??
Amazing documentary and so moving, but the arrogance of the British so disappointing.
@@OmiArtress the native was being disingenuous ,their language doesn’t transcend historical past , so he was talking bollox.