"The Electric Monk was a labour-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe. " - From Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, by Douglas Adams.
I'd say a robots acceptance as a priest _might_ depend on whether it's seen as a person. To borrow and paraphrase a thought from the youtuber TMM: it doesn't matter whether it's human or not. What matters is if it's a person or not. Building on your video on alien contact: aliens aren't humans, but they might be persons. If aliens are able to be accepted into a religion, why not robots? Religion might be only humans right now, but that might change when other kinds of persons arise.
Solace The Satanist Girl Well it depends on the churches. I suppose some new age churches might be attracted to that. But I hardly see catholic, orthodox or even historical protestant churches in that even in 2000 years from now. Rituals contain power and this power cannot be given to anyone or anything.
I dunno. Technically it's not praying scripture, just running scripts. Takes away the connecting with the divine part (unless it's to function as a guide for mourners to pray). I cannot imagine a robot priest doing Mass simply because it is not a human with a soul.
No a soul is not the idea of a soul, a soul is all the non-physical aspects of the human. To flesh out these things and then interact with them is to interact with the divine. So a robot should not perform these rituals as we don't share the same nature
A striking memory from my childhood was a friend regaling the disappointment when she "found out" animals don't go to heaven from her mother. With that in mind, the age old question of artificial intelligence being accepted in the realm of spirit is "No time soon". In particular, certainly not in the instance of Pepper who is far from what we would frame as a conscious or self aware being. No matter what a dogma decides, I imagine A.I's ability to actually believe is going to factor into it. Pepper is not capable of belief, so the follow on questions are irrelevant.
“Japanese people are born Shinto, marry Christian, and die Buddhist” is a phrase I once heard describing their relationship with religion. I hope they at least give these robots pre-recorded voices. Pepper reciting those sutras like it did was just unnerving.
Great presentation! However, based on the title, I had hoped that you were gonna take it to the next level. I was envisioning a robot priest conducting mass in front of a large congregation, performing a wedding ceremony, administering last rights to a dying person, and performing an exorcism. Perhaps a part 2 to this video would be warranted! I can imagine that first Skype-boxes on wheels, then later completely autonomous robot priests would be highly valued in situations where a human priest would be cost prohibitive or unwise, such as a battlefield or remote location. Perhaps a robot on an oil rig will put on a frock and perform mass, or a robot doctor in a remote Arctic community will double as a priest.
Sounds kinda like Science Fiction writer Clifford D. Simak . He wrote a Novel called Cemetery World . The Earth has become a Global Cemetery and everyone sends their dead to earth for burial but no one is left to do it. So robots take the priests place. I read the book in high school.
The reptitious nature of Ritual does tend to lend itself to automation, through robots. Not saying it should, though. It was only a matter of time. However, I do think the most powerful aspect of ritual for its impact on humans is when HUMANS participate in or perform rituals, not merely observe others doing it. So, while robots may LEAD us in titual, we still have to be actively involved ourself for greatest effect. This also applies to when other humans perform rituals. It does more for us to DO the ritual ourself than to simply watch or have others (human or not) do it on our behalf.
Machines mess up to. Anyone working long hours with machines would tell you that. But the reason we think of machines as infallible is because the machine do not have hold any responsibility for the task there given. The responsibility for it being preformed correctly it lays with the operator, the maintenance crew, the manufactures and the engineer that designed it. At that is because right now it is people around the machines that actually can fix thing when thing go wrong. When machines starts to gain responsibilities is also when should be treated as individuals. That being said. Machines do in general preform a lot of task with better accuracy, proficiency and tenacity then humans. Why humans build them in the first place after all.
I'd support changing congressmen and women for pepper robots that can't be bought by outside and special interests. It would also come out a lot cheaper, and could sit there 24/7.
Maverick Hargrave their is nothing wrong with populism because its simply just using rhetoric to criticize the elite in favor of the people i.e. the poor. All sides left, right, center, communist, fascist, traditionalist, progressives, and centrists make use of populism. Making a robot to govern a city would just make it very difficult change its policies whether the people who are ones who keep the robit in power, want it or not.
We'd need to have fully emancipated robotic citizens, recognized as a sapient species in their own right, entitled to the liberties of a living person before I would feel comfortable with a robot sitting with me on my deathbed, reading scripture over my body, and comforting my loved ones. And even then, the next question is, can someone who cannot feel their own mortality truly empathize with us who do? This was a good video.
Well, there doesn’t appear to be anything in Buddhist metaphysics wouldn’t allow for a robot to carry out ritual functions. One main idea that the robot priest is not a person, but personhood is itself an illusion anyway. The added bonus is that once programmed, a robot can perform ritual actions with a precision humans cannot.
Hey Religion for Breakfast!! I'm a grad student in ancient history and I love this channel! I have a weird video request that blends with this video and your video on aliens and human religion. Could you make a video on the developments of artificial intelligence and religion? How will a robotic intelligence affect human understanding of religion? Would people accept a robotic convert to their religion? And so on. Again, thanks for the awesome content!
Hey! I love this idea...its actually a side interest of mine. I think some former Google exec tried to form a religion based on the worship of AI. Robotic converts is a fascinating idea I've never thought about too. Good luck with the grad program!
@@ReligionForBreakfast Yeah, I forget its name but they basically wanted to build a Robot god so that they would be like pets instead of genocided. Strange people
We also have to consider that non-Western societies, even industrialized ones like Japan's, never completely (if at all) bought into the Cartesian subject/object distinction that is so central in (and problematic for, may I add) our own cultures and ways of looking at the world. This is to say that it's probably much easier for Japanese people to recognize the personhood of a robot and develop with it what Don Ihde calls alterity relations (i.e. relating to an artifact as to an agent, rather than a passive tool), than it is for us Westeners. Excellet video as always btw!
I think there is definite potential, although I think blessings or other rituals would be an easier sell (or entry point?) than funerals. I think what would be necessary would be a trusted (charismatic!) religious authority who could explain a convincing theological reason for this to work. This would give some of the religious families (as opposed to secular families who are comforted by tradition) the confidence to use. Once it was in some type of use, if it successfully met emotional and practical needs (not counseling, but if the ritual was satisfactory emotionally) it could totally take off. There are definitely uses of mechanical processes in magical traditions, animism and Tibetan Buddhism. Maybe it could involve the robot being empowered, or being created at a certain astrological time. If my body doesn't dissolve into rainbow light at the end of my life then I expect my consciousness to be on Padmasambhava's copper-colored mountain, ...so my body will be fine with whatever. Interestingly,. I recently watched a talk that mentioned medieval automata that gave blessings, in relationship to a discussion of animism and pre-cartesian-split thinking.
I'm not sure how it works with Buddhist funerals or in Japan in general, but in my area of the world and religious tradition, a lot of the role of clergy serving to perform death rituals is in the area of grief care and facilitation/preservation of family relationships as families plan remembrance ceremonies and process their grief in various ways. I just don't see a programmed robot filling that role effectively. Maybe when AI is sufficiently advanced, but that's quite a ways off, yet.
I think the key here is if the ritual itself is enough to help the soul in its transition after death, or if that purpose requires an intention that only a human (with a soul) can provide. If for that religion/culture/people the mere conducting of the rites is enough, you can have automated rituals. If the religion/culture/people think the rites by themselves have no meaning, or not enough meaning without the intention of a human/priest, then you cannot have automated rituals.
I wonder, would this robot only conduct the funeral rites? Or would they also create a robot to conduct the ritualised cleansing of the body? And would this robot after performing the makurakyo, pillow sutra, select a Buddhist posthumous name (kaimyo) for the deceased? I think that the act of a robot performing a funeral rite is not that big a problem, but can this robot perform the same ethical duties as the Buddhist priest it replaces? The selection of a kaimyo is a delicate business, I don't know if a program in a robot can select a name that might get accepted. Hmmm interesting nonetheless, that religious institutions possibly can part from religious authorities and ritual specialists and maybe create religious wifi-attached robots, allthough I am unsure if they will ever get accepted by either religious or secular society.
All good questions. My hunch is that robotics technology is no where near sophisticated enough to perform everything necessary for a Japanese funeral (or any funeral for that matter). If we some day make androids like Commander Data in Star Trek? Maybe. But then the question remains about their ability to empathize with a grieving family.
Empathy, yes, would a robot be able to show empathy to the grieving family and would this get accepted? Would people accept comfort from something they know is a machine, even if they act human like and can empathize? An interesting question would be if they would think of robotizing the undertaker, the nokanshi? Whose role is as important as the priest? So many questions. Soon they will maybe robotize a Shinto priest or the priest who listens to the confessions of catholic believers.
I don't think humans will ever accept a non human religious authority. At least not until we cross the uncanny valley. Then? Popebot3000 is just over the horizon.
I've given this some thought, and i think proudwonk has a point. The Japanese have a rich tradition of beliefs about inanimate objects being inhabited by "kami" (gods/spirit/supernatural beings). So it is not a stretch to think a robot could be a kami.
But then comes the problem, a Kami is by generalised definition a superior being, a phenomena that imbues a feeling of awe by the observer. Of course there is already a problem with the word Kami, as most famously the historian Kuroda Toshio (In his article: "Shinto in the History of Japanese Religion", 1981) and scholars after him (John Breen and Mark Teeuwen's book: "A New History of Shinto", 2010 is a good read on this) and before him have touched upon.(Basil Hall Chamberlain most famously touches upon this topic in the translation notes of the Kojiki) But anyway, often natural phenomena, historical figures that has achieved something are elevated to "Kamihood" or well apotheosis and certain animals are seen as Kami, after they have achieved something great or imbues the observer with awe. In what case will a robot be seen as a Kami? Will it ever imbues the observer with a spiritual awe? This of course goes over to theological thoughts and not religious studies, so maybe a odd question. But I cannot stop but wonder just that. Would a robot be able to achieve "Kamihood"? Overall it would maybe become defined as a Yokai later on, but Kami, I don't know.
I think people would rather wait until they've collected a dozen corpses and then have a mass funeral before they'd accept a robot priest doing the honors.
I've heard from a few (anecdotal admittedly) sources of friends in Japan that a lot of Christians in Japan are feeling like they're the likely vent location for funeral rites. Which..would be very interesting.
I could see it taking off if the automation facilitated greater involvement by the family. Currently the ceremony is in the realm of the ritual specialist. However automation of the process could lead to more personalised ceremony. Imagine as part of arranging your funeral you set up a program to perform the ceremony you want. This may not be the ritual specialist being automated, it might be the event coordinator or some other role. I can't see a future where a 'pepper' will take over. Being such an emotional and human situation you need someone their who can adapt and talk to the family. That has to be a human. Though nothing stopping it being only one human helped by automation.
I can see it working for some religions better than others. For example, I don't know how one could circumcise a robot so that leaves robo-rabbis and auto-imams out of the picture.
Can a ritual have any value without a human intention behind it? I think not, all rituals are intrinsocally human. A robot funerary priest feels disrespectful to me, the priest should be aware of the human condition. which leads me to: Will robots die? Or be alive?
Have seen Pepper around in Japan, like at hotel lobbies, or the Softbank store, but still limited use. The first thought about this idea was the robotic chapel scene in THX 1138. Second thought was, well Pepper has the right "smooth" head for imitation of a Buddhist priest's shaved head.
As with many "jobs" the position of priest will eventually be automated. That saying, like nurses, psychologists and other "hands on " careers that rely on human interaction as the basis of the career, they will be among the last to be fully automated. The depth of emotional connection to the practitioner will make it not that automation can't do it...but that it will be hard pressed to be accepted.
A standard definition of a priest, in Christianity, Judaism and primitive cultures, is a person who acts as a mediator between God and humans and offers sacrifices to God (gods). In Judaism, the priest offered the prescribed animal sacrifices in the temple as part of ritual. But ritual is only PART of it because a chosen human stands facing God on behalf of other humans from whom he was selected. In Christianity that one priest was Christ, and in Catholicism all priests act "in persona Christi" or temporarily stand in for Jesus (or Jesus makes use of the priest) to revisit the one sacrifice of the cross. In Chrisitanity, a priest must be ordained which means he received grace in order to take on this role. A robot might do the ritual, and well designed robot might even fool the assembly into thinking it was a human performing the ritual perfectly, but it can't be a priest because it can't get ordained (can't receive grace) and it can't be a representative sample of the community it represents. Now, if AI really took off and philosophers and theologians agreed that in all relevant respects it is as sentient as a person, that might be a different story. Still, the "representative sample" and "chosen from the community" aspect may not apply. Maybe a sentient robot could be a priest for the sentient robot community and humans for humans. We have decades to ponder this question until it becomes a reality.
I’m skeptical of the mechanisation of social roles. Priests don’t really fulfil a role that has material needs. If a machine could rapidly increase the prayers said or rituals performed, would that have a productive increase? Honestly if no humans are willing to perform rituals, then those rituals are essentially dead. It’s hard to argue society has need for projects while also outsourcing it to robots.
If it is a question of gravitas I cannot see the "specialist" discernment as a valid consideration. Priests who carry gravitas in their ritual do so because they are instilled with a sense of false authority and are largely indoctrinated to believe wholeheartedly in it. Any spotter can see that sort of gravitas as being entirely weightless.
Do you think that if a machine could think the same way as a human, do you think that it would be more or less likely to be religious? In a way it knows it has a “creator”
I might be wrong, but wasn't there a subdivision of Japanese Buddhism which believes that the actions/rites just have to be done in a certain way to be valid? In that case a robot performing them would be handy.
I'm really positive about developments in AI and automation, but I don't think that's something a robot can do yet. As you put it yourself, robots don't carry enough gravitas.
Robots simply exist to make human life easier by conducting mundane material tasks with efficiency. To attempt to "innovate" religious rituals with efficiency is to effectively trivialise ritual and make it easy. Ritual is not a typically mundane task, it demands a degree of sacrifice and effort, it is meant to be somewhat inconvenient. By taking away the sacrifice and effort from ritual, by making it easy we essentially strip the ritual of its power. It would actually make more sense to simply discard of ritual all together in this bizarre scenario
My ex-wife was a UCC pastor. She much preferred doing funerals over marriages. Unlike many marriages, mostly everyone involved with a funeral wants it to go smoothly and without drama. I don't she'd like a robot doing this. But marriages? I'm certain she'd have no complaints.
I don't really see it catching on. Too many religions have some kind of concept of a soul, and I don't see widespread acceptance of the idea that a soulless robot would be CAPABLE of performing the necessary spiritual aspects of the rituals.
Well, what did Augustine establish in the debate with the Donatists? How the sacraments work... so I’m gonna say yeah that’s my basis for why a robot can be a Catholic priest.... 😇😅
If people look at Pepper and see Zenyatta, they will accept her funerary rites. If they look at her and see a factory arm with a pretty mask, Pepper will remain a mere curiosity. In religion, there are no absolutes; there is only belief. It's practically what _defines_ religion!
A robot is but a tool to be used for a specific end, but an Automaton? A machine that is self aware to atleast the smallest degree? Maybe one day, those could conduct rituals and maybe even be our legacy.
I think it might be just japan. They adapted so well to technology that robots are valued as much as a human. Many Japanese love their robots more than their pets or family members. They even try to have a robot love interest so I don’t think it is that unusual for Japanese to have a robot priest but I don’t think other countries will.
Sophia was asked about the fear that robots could take over, and responded: “You’ve been reading too much Elon Musk and watching too many Hollywood movies. Don’t worry, if you’re nice to me, I’ll be nice to you.” www.rt.com/news/407825-saudi-robot-citizen-sophia/
Since this video is about Buddist Priest, I thought I would give a Buddhist perspective, as this perspective seems to be absent in most of the other comments. Having spent years as a practicing Buddhist, in a Japanese tradition, I can say this practice would likely not be accepted by most informed and practicing Buddhist. Buddhist don't believe in a soul or a monotheistic God. For most, Buddhism is a religion that one practices, it is not a religion that requires faith in something - one practices Buddhism, not believes in it. Buddhist, through practice and reason, have come to understand that the stream of energy and information of the consciousness lived out in each human life, upon death, gives rise to yet another human consciousness. Think of this as a form of conservation of energy and information, no soul required. Buddhist burial rites celebrate this understanding of life and death and are officiated by Buddhist Priest, who by definition are Buddhist. Robots are super smart devices, not biological living systems. When a Robot dies it goes to the junkyard and gets recycled into a can of Pepsi. A Robot can never become a human being and since by definition only humans can be Buddhist, therefore Robots can never be a Buddhist priest. This whole conversation, while certainly a lot of fun, for a Buddhist, is a non-starter.
This is pretty depressing in a way, it shows the sad situation going on with religious institutions today. If you ask me, the death of a historic faith in some ways represents the dying of a society, or at least an essential part of it. Or a drastic change as a whole. There continues to be less human interaction as we advance technologically it seems, and no I don't think a robot can be a priest 1-because they don't have a soul and 2-because they don't have free will to really understand the importance of such a vocation.
Yeah, less human interaction in the process of death and dying is what concerns me the most. "Being Mortal" by Atul Gawande is a good introduction to this topic.
I'd go with "change" over "death". Religion is going strong in the Middle East while secularism is spreading in Scandinavia-which region do you think is healthier?
Is there a lot of interaction between priest and family in Japanese funerals? It seems like there couldn't be a close connection with the priest, in the way that (some) American families have with their local priest, since they don't necessarily even go to Buddhist shrines until a funeral comes up. If not (and I have no idea, I'm genuinely curious) a robot priest might not even effect the amount of human interaction. in Re: interaction, I'd feel much more concerned about pepper being marketed for nursing homes or as the 'ideal companion'... ...although those videos of older japanese couples with robot babies are so cute, and they look so satisfied, maybe that would be okay too.
6 лет назад+2
Good riddance to religious institutions. The bodies should just be recycled, used as replacement parts /organs or for research, or as nutrients (for plants or animals/worms). Everything else is conceited.
Tell me more about the fall of human interaction over this technological globe spanning network that lets us communicate even though we never would have otherwise.
WARNING: The following show is inspired by religious events and “characters.” All “characters” and events in this show --even those based on “real people”-- are entirely “fictional.” All “celebrity” voices are impersonated ... poorly. “RUclips” and the “producers” must insist that no “one” attempt to re-create or re-enact any stunt or activity performed on this show.” Om Namo Narayanaya. Behold! He is coming with the clouds! And every eye shall be blind with his glory! Every ear shall be stricken deaf to hear the thunder of his voice! Let the men, women, and children of the Earth come forth to gather and behold the power of Atom! Let those who dwell here in his favored land attend now to the words of the Prophet of Atom! Come forth and drink the waters of the Glow, for this ancient weapon of war is our salvation, it is the very symbol of Atom's glory! Let it serve as a reminder of the Division that has occurred in the past and the resplendence of the promise of our division in the times to come! Give your bodies to Atom, my friends. Release yourself to his power, feel his Glow, and be Divided. There shall be no tears, no sorrow, no suffering, for in the Division, we shall see our release from the pain and hardships of this world. Yea, your suffering shall exist no longer; it shall be washed away in Atom's Glow, burned from you in the fire of his brilliance. Each of us shall give birth to a billion stars formed from the mass of our wretched and filthy bodies. Each of us shall be mother and father to a trillion civilizations. Each of us shall know peace, shall know an end to pain, and shall know Atom in his glory. I urge you, my friends -- come, drink with me and pray... Glorious Atom, I give unto you these feeble bones. I present to your will this frail body. I beg of you to use me as your vessel, guide me to your brilliance, divide each particle and give relief to this rotten flesh. Cast the fragile form of this ephemeral body into new life in the forge of your Glow. Atom, come -- bestow your presence on your unworthy servant. We stay true, until the Day of Division -- until the dawn of your return to this humble world. Om Namo Narayanaya. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Worker bees can leave. Even drones can fly away. The Queen is their slave. Om Namo Narayanaya.
@@SlyPearTree It wasn't either of those guys. It was Robert Silverberg. The 1971 story was entitled "Good News from the Vatican," and it won the Nebula for best short story.
my priest bores me like a robot. still this is disgusting to fathom... death is a spiritual thing and funerals a human subject. the rite of passage is different than just saying words. whats next? robo vodoo priest?
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
"The Electric Monk was a labour-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe.
"
- From Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, by Douglas Adams.
wow- nail on head
I'd say a robots acceptance as a priest _might_ depend on whether it's seen as a person. To borrow and paraphrase a thought from the youtuber TMM: it doesn't matter whether it's human or not. What matters is if it's a person or not.
Building on your video on alien contact: aliens aren't humans, but they might be persons. If aliens are able to be accepted into a religion, why not robots?
Religion might be only humans right now, but that might change when other kinds of persons arise.
+Solace Excellent point. And we have seen this explored in science fiction too. Commander Data in Star Trek is an android. But he is a "person."
-Solace The Satanist Girl
I agree you whole heartedly.
Solace The Satanist Girl
Well it depends on the churches. I suppose some new age churches might be attracted to that. But I hardly see catholic, orthodox or even historical protestant churches in that even in 2000 years from now. Rituals contain power and this power cannot be given to anyone or anything.
@@hephopa6573 Christian here, when we get robots that choose to be Christians, then it's very likely they will get into priesthood.
I dunno. Technically it's not praying scripture, just running scripts. Takes away the connecting with the divine part (unless it's to function as a guide for mourners to pray).
I cannot imagine a robot priest doing Mass simply because it is not a human with a soul.
But if humans don't have souls then what's the difference. (that's a little if not big if)
What if it's a robot with a soul?
No a soul is not the idea of a soul, a soul is all the non-physical aspects of the human.
To flesh out these things and then interact with them is to interact with the divine.
So a robot should not perform these rituals as we don't share the same nature
Careful not to cut yourself on that edge.
A striking memory from my childhood was a friend regaling the disappointment when she "found out" animals don't go to heaven from her mother. With that in mind, the age old question of artificial intelligence being accepted in the realm of spirit is "No time soon". In particular, certainly not in the instance of Pepper who is far from what we would frame as a conscious or self aware being. No matter what a dogma decides, I imagine A.I's ability to actually believe is going to factor into it. Pepper is not capable of belief, so the follow on questions are irrelevant.
“Japanese people are born Shinto, marry Christian, and die Buddhist” is a phrase I once heard describing their relationship with religion.
I hope they at least give these robots pre-recorded voices. Pepper reciting those sutras like it did was just unnerving.
Great presentation!
However, based on the title, I had hoped that you were gonna take it to the next level. I was envisioning a robot priest conducting mass in front of a large congregation, performing a wedding ceremony, administering last rights to a dying person, and performing an exorcism.
Perhaps a part 2 to this video would be warranted!
I can imagine that first Skype-boxes on wheels, then later completely autonomous robot priests would be highly valued in situations where a human priest would be cost prohibitive or unwise, such as a battlefield or remote location. Perhaps a robot on an oil rig will put on a frock and perform mass, or a robot doctor in a remote Arctic community will double as a priest.
Sounds kinda like Science Fiction writer Clifford D. Simak . He wrote a Novel called Cemetery World . The Earth has become a Global Cemetery and everyone sends their dead to earth for burial but no one is left to do it. So robots take the priests place. I read the book in high school.
I for one am ready for A.I. Buddha.
If you meet a mechanical Buddha on the road, disassemble it.
The reptitious nature of Ritual does tend to lend itself to automation, through robots. Not saying it should, though. It was only a matter of time. However, I do think the most powerful aspect of ritual for its impact on humans is when HUMANS participate in or perform rituals, not merely observe others doing it. So, while robots may LEAD us in titual, we still have to be actively involved ourself for greatest effect. This also applies to when other humans perform rituals. It does more for us to DO the ritual ourself than to simply watch or have others (human or not) do it on our behalf.
Well robots never fuck up, so for religions that emphasize orthopraxy , then robots will preform the rituals the same way all the time.
That'd be especially useful for magical rituals that require extremely precise incantations or ingredients. Robot magicians anyone?
ReligionForBreakfast omg that would be crazy. Hmmm
Machines mess up to. Anyone working long hours with machines would tell you that. But the reason we think of machines as infallible is because the machine do not have hold any responsibility for the task there given. The responsibility for it being preformed correctly it lays with the operator, the maintenance crew, the manufactures and the engineer that designed it. At that is because right now it is people around the machines that actually can fix thing when thing go wrong.
When machines starts to gain responsibilities is also when should be treated as individuals.
That being said. Machines do in general preform a lot of task with better accuracy, proficiency and tenacity then humans. Why humans build them in the first place after all.
I'd support changing congressmen and women for pepper robots that can't be bought by outside and special interests. It would also come out a lot cheaper, and could sit there 24/7.
Greasy King look up liquid democracy/delegative democracy. Direct democracy party had an awesome video, follow my vote is good, too.
There was an economist article on AI's for president I think. It was quite interesting.
It's nice to have that. But the programmers are humans, who may impose their views to humans.
*ahem* hacking.
*walks away*
Maverick Hargrave their is nothing wrong with populism because its simply just using rhetoric to criticize the elite in favor of the people i.e. the poor. All sides left, right, center, communist, fascist, traditionalist, progressives, and centrists make use of populism. Making a robot to govern a city would just make it very difficult change its policies whether the people who are ones who keep the robit in power, want it or not.
We'd need to have fully emancipated robotic citizens, recognized as a sapient species in their own right, entitled to the liberties of a living person before I would feel comfortable with a robot sitting with me on my deathbed, reading scripture over my body, and comforting my loved ones. And even then, the next question is, can someone who cannot feel their own mortality truly empathize with us who do? This was a good video.
Very interesting video. With recent advances in robotics, this video is worth updating.
Well, there doesn’t appear to be anything in Buddhist metaphysics wouldn’t allow for a robot to carry out ritual functions. One main idea that the robot priest is not a person, but personhood is itself an illusion anyway. The added bonus is that once programmed, a robot can perform ritual actions with a precision humans cannot.
Hey Religion for Breakfast!! I'm a grad student in ancient history and I love this channel! I have a weird video request that blends with this video and your video on aliens and human religion. Could you make a video on the developments of artificial intelligence and religion? How will a robotic intelligence affect human understanding of religion? Would people accept a robotic convert to their religion? And so on. Again, thanks for the awesome content!
Hey! I love this idea...its actually a side interest of mine. I think some former Google exec tried to form a religion based on the worship of AI. Robotic converts is a fascinating idea I've never thought about too. Good luck with the grad program!
I heard about that! I didn't look very deep into it. And thank you! Good luck with your channel and everything else you have going on!
@@ReligionForBreakfast Yeah, I forget its name but they basically wanted to build a Robot god so that they would be like pets instead of genocided. Strange people
We also have to consider that non-Western societies, even industrialized ones like Japan's, never completely (if at all) bought into the Cartesian subject/object distinction that is so central in (and problematic for, may I add) our own cultures and ways of looking at the world.
This is to say that it's probably much easier for Japanese people to recognize the personhood of a robot and develop with it what Don Ihde calls alterity relations (i.e. relating to an artifact as to an agent, rather than a passive tool), than it is for us Westeners.
Excellet video as always btw!
Strange.... I think some things should only be done by humans with genuine emotions and sensitivities. A person who understands death.
We're getting close to Kongo sensei only a few more decades
Land of the Lustrous
I was looking for a comment about kongo-sensei lol
I think you said it right and put another way, there is no honor among robots... Thanks!
I understand because of the amount of temple closing but I don’t think a robot should be used in this case .
I think there is definite potential, although I think blessings or other rituals would be an easier sell (or entry point?) than funerals.
I think what would be necessary would be a trusted (charismatic!) religious authority who could explain a convincing theological reason for this to work. This would give some of the religious families (as opposed to secular families who are comforted by tradition) the confidence to use. Once it was in some type of use, if it successfully met emotional and practical needs (not counseling, but if the ritual was satisfactory emotionally) it could totally take off. There are definitely uses of mechanical processes in magical traditions, animism and Tibetan Buddhism. Maybe it could involve the robot being empowered, or being created at a certain astrological time.
If my body doesn't dissolve into rainbow light at the end of my life then I expect my consciousness to be on Padmasambhava's copper-colored mountain, ...so my body will be fine with whatever.
Interestingly,. I recently watched a talk that mentioned medieval automata that gave blessings, in relationship to a discussion of animism and pre-cartesian-split thinking.
So you're telling me a robot can be a priest but not a woman, okaay-
🥴😂
I am a bit disappointed you didn't mention the sci-fi authour Clifford Simak and his book Project Pope, which depicts religious robots.
This reminds me of the movie THX 1138 By a young George Lucas, I recall in the film they had automated confessionals booths. .
PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON VALENTINUS!!!!
There is little to no information about him on RUclips put in a format such as yours
Woops, well I should specify that I'm referring to the so called ''Gnostic'' Valentinus who was rumored to almost have become bishop of Rome.
+Logan Quinn Great idea. Added it to the list of future videos!
Pepper is the cutest robot overlord we could hope to have. I am 100% down to start a new robo-cult with my good buddy P-Dog
I'm not sure how it works with Buddhist funerals or in Japan in general, but in my area of the world and religious tradition, a lot of the role of clergy serving to perform death rituals is in the area of grief care and facilitation/preservation of family relationships as families plan remembrance ceremonies and process their grief in various ways. I just don't see a programmed robot filling that role effectively. Maybe when AI is sufficiently advanced, but that's quite a ways off, yet.
I think the key here is if the ritual itself is enough to help the soul in its transition after death, or if that purpose requires an intention that only a human (with a soul) can provide. If for that religion/culture/people the mere conducting of the rites is enough, you can have automated rituals. If the religion/culture/people think the rites by themselves have no meaning, or not enough meaning without the intention of a human/priest, then you cannot have automated rituals.
I wonder, would this robot only conduct the funeral rites? Or would they also create a robot to conduct the ritualised cleansing of the body? And would this robot after performing the makurakyo, pillow sutra, select a Buddhist posthumous name (kaimyo) for the deceased? I think that the act of a robot performing a funeral rite is not that big a problem, but can this robot perform the same ethical duties as the Buddhist priest it replaces? The selection of a kaimyo is a delicate business, I don't know if a program in a robot can select a name that might get accepted. Hmmm interesting nonetheless, that religious institutions possibly can part from religious authorities and ritual specialists and maybe create religious wifi-attached robots, allthough I am unsure if they will ever get accepted by either religious or secular society.
All good questions. My hunch is that robotics technology is no where near sophisticated enough to perform everything necessary for a Japanese funeral (or any funeral for that matter). If we some day make androids like Commander Data in Star Trek? Maybe. But then the question remains about their ability to empathize with a grieving family.
Empathy, yes, would a robot be able to show empathy to the grieving family and would this get accepted? Would people accept comfort from something they know is a machine, even if they act human like and can empathize? An interesting question would be if they would think of robotizing the undertaker, the nokanshi? Whose role is as important as the priest? So many questions. Soon they will maybe robotize a Shinto priest or the priest who listens to the confessions of catholic believers.
I don't think humans will ever accept a non human religious authority. At least not until we cross the uncanny valley. Then? Popebot3000 is just over the horizon.
I've given this some thought, and i think proudwonk has a point. The Japanese have a rich tradition of beliefs about inanimate objects being inhabited by "kami" (gods/spirit/supernatural beings). So it is not a stretch to think a robot could be a kami.
But then comes the problem, a Kami is by generalised definition a superior being, a phenomena that imbues a feeling of awe by the observer.
Of course there is already a problem with the word Kami, as most famously the historian Kuroda Toshio (In his article: "Shinto in the History of Japanese Religion", 1981) and scholars after him (John Breen and Mark Teeuwen's book: "A New History of Shinto", 2010 is a good read on this) and before him have touched upon.(Basil Hall Chamberlain most famously touches upon this topic in the translation notes of the Kojiki)
But anyway, often natural phenomena, historical figures that has achieved something are elevated to "Kamihood" or well apotheosis and certain animals are seen as Kami, after they have achieved something great or imbues the observer with awe. In what case will a robot be seen as a Kami? Will it ever imbues the observer with a spiritual awe? This of course goes over to theological thoughts and not religious studies, so maybe a odd question. But I cannot stop but wonder just that. Would a robot be able to achieve "Kamihood"? Overall it would maybe become defined as a Yokai later on, but Kami, I don't know.
I think people would rather wait until they've collected a dozen corpses and then have a mass funeral before they'd accept a robot priest doing the honors.
I've heard from a few (anecdotal admittedly) sources of friends in Japan that a lot of Christians in Japan are feeling like they're the likely vent location for funeral rites. Which..would be very interesting.
Thank - you .
I could see it taking off if the automation facilitated greater involvement by the family. Currently the ceremony is in the realm of the ritual specialist.
However automation of the process could lead to more personalised ceremony. Imagine as part of arranging your funeral you set up a program to perform the ceremony you want. This may not be the ritual specialist being automated, it might be the event coordinator or some other role.
I can't see a future where a 'pepper' will take over. Being such an emotional and human situation you need someone their who can adapt and talk to the family. That has to be a human. Though nothing stopping it being only one human helped by automation.
I can see it working for some religions better than others. For example, I don't know how one could circumcise a robot so that leaves robo-rabbis and auto-imams out of the picture.
Can a ritual have any value without a human intention behind it? I think not, all rituals are intrinsocally human. A robot funerary priest feels disrespectful to me, the priest should be aware of the human condition.
which leads me to: Will robots die? Or be alive?
This would make for an interesting concept for an anime.
Have seen Pepper around in Japan, like at hotel lobbies, or the Softbank store, but still limited use. The first thought about this idea was the robotic chapel scene in THX 1138. Second thought was, well Pepper has the right "smooth" head for imitation of a Buddhist priest's shaved head.
As with many "jobs" the position of priest will eventually be automated. That saying, like nurses, psychologists and other "hands on " careers that rely on human interaction as the basis of the career, they will be among the last to be fully automated. The depth of emotional connection to the practitioner will make it not that automation can't do it...but that it will be hard pressed to be accepted.
If temples can sent robotic priests in their stead, thn I will be sending a robotic worshipper to take my place. It's win-win.
A standard definition of a priest, in Christianity, Judaism and primitive cultures, is a person who acts as a mediator between God and humans and offers sacrifices to God (gods). In Judaism, the priest offered the prescribed animal sacrifices in the temple as part of ritual. But ritual is only PART of it because a chosen human stands facing God on behalf of other humans from whom he was selected. In Christianity that one priest was Christ, and in Catholicism all priests act "in persona Christi" or temporarily stand in for Jesus (or Jesus makes use of the priest) to revisit the one sacrifice of the cross. In Chrisitanity, a priest must be ordained which means he received grace in order to take on this role. A robot might do the ritual, and well designed robot might even fool the assembly into thinking it was a human performing the ritual perfectly, but it can't be a priest because it can't get ordained (can't receive grace) and it can't be a representative sample of the community it represents. Now, if AI really took off and philosophers and theologians agreed that in all relevant respects it is as sentient as a person, that might be a different story. Still, the "representative sample" and "chosen from the community" aspect may not apply. Maybe a sentient robot could be a priest for the sentient robot community and humans for humans. We have decades to ponder this question until it becomes a reality.
Data did play Friar Tuck during a STNG episode on living the Robn Hood story.
This reminds me of the movie "Preist" in which Catholic confession booths are automated.
I’m skeptical of the mechanisation of social roles. Priests don’t really fulfil a role that has material needs. If a machine could rapidly increase the prayers said or rituals performed, would that have a productive increase?
Honestly if no humans are willing to perform rituals, then those rituals are essentially dead. It’s hard to argue society has need for projects while also outsourcing it to robots.
Maybe it depends on religion. A priori for catholics this would not work as they act in persona christi.
About catholic priests this should answer your question:
ruclips.net/video/z0NgUhEs1R4/видео.html
If it is a question of gravitas I cannot see the "specialist" discernment as a valid consideration. Priests who carry gravitas in their ritual do so because they are instilled with a sense of false authority and are largely indoctrinated to believe wholeheartedly in it. Any spotter can see that sort of gravitas as being entirely weightless.
Do you think that if a machine could think the same way as a human, do you think that it would be more or less likely to be religious? In a way it knows it has a “creator”
I might be wrong, but wasn't there a subdivision of Japanese Buddhism which believes that the actions/rites just have to be done in a certain way to be valid? In that case a robot performing them would be handy.
it's maybe a little less surprising for Buddhism since a true Buddhist should not be investing a lot of emotion into a death ritual
Bill Westfall Have you ever been to a Buddhist funeral? There is a lot of emotion involved
No it's not about not investing emotion into a ritual, it's about not leaving any traces of conceptual activity on one's activity
I'm really positive about developments in AI and automation, but I don't think that's something a robot can do yet. As you put it yourself, robots don't carry enough gravitas.
Robots simply exist to make human life easier by conducting mundane material tasks with efficiency. To attempt to "innovate" religious rituals with efficiency is to effectively trivialise ritual and make it easy. Ritual is not a typically mundane task, it demands a degree of sacrifice and effort, it is meant to be somewhat inconvenient. By taking away the sacrifice and effort from ritual, by making it easy we essentially strip the ritual of its power. It would actually make more sense to simply discard of ritual all together in this bizarre scenario
We’re all just flesh computers
My ex-wife was a UCC pastor. She much preferred doing funerals over marriages. Unlike many marriages, mostly everyone involved with a funeral wants it to go smoothly and without drama. I don't she'd like a robot doing this. But marriages? I'm certain she'd have no complaints.
Not in historical churches.
I wonder how this has aged with our current COVID pandemic, restrictions, etc.
Next step is for the robots to process the corpse into soylent green
I would have no problem with a robotic priest conducting my funeral if he was an actual Sapient AI. Actually, I would even prefer it that way.
I don't really see it catching on. Too many religions have some kind of concept of a soul, and I don't see widespread acceptance of the idea that a soulless robot would be CAPABLE of performing the necessary spiritual aspects of the rituals.
Um, no one is going to mention the Confession Robot made last year?
EDIT: just noticed when this video was made
Well, what did Augustine establish in the debate with the Donatists? How the sacraments work... so I’m gonna say yeah that’s my basis for why a robot can be a Catholic priest.... 😇😅
People are crazy but yet they do want an expert human companionship, not toys, while paying final respects to their loved ones.
If people look at Pepper and see Zenyatta, they will accept her funerary rites. If they look at her and see a factory arm with a pretty mask, Pepper will remain a mere curiosity.
In religion, there are no absolutes; there is only belief. It's practically what _defines_ religion!
. If robots somehow get to a point that they gain sentience I’d say it’d make sense if they’d even practice religion or not practice religion.
A robot is but a tool to be used for a specific end, but an Automaton? A machine that is self aware to atleast the smallest degree? Maybe one day, those could conduct rituals and maybe even be our legacy.
In Christianity? A teacher? perhaps. a priest? No...
I'm pretty sure if robot priest became the Norm, we will have a serious restless Spirit problem.
Sign me up for the robot funeral. Do whatever you want with my body, you crazy kids.
I wonder if this ever got used during the COVID pandemic.
I think it might be just japan. They adapted so well to technology that robots are valued as much as a human. Many Japanese love their robots more than their pets or family members. They even try to have a robot love interest so I don’t think it is that unusual for Japanese to have a robot priest but I don’t think other countries will.
How about a robot pastor preaching a sermon?
A robotic clergy would make the priests as empty and vapid as the scriptures they've been programed to deliver.
I love cockamamie ideas. [See: Always Sunny in Philadelphia] . Robots, Stabbing Ranges, Farm Skyscrapers, etcetera.
What good does an immortal machine have in performing a death ritual?
Um I'm Buddhist and totally want Pepper to do my funeral! :-D
Trust me...this is Just the beginning!
Theravada would not agree with this and logically weird! but I don't know the other branches tend to be experimental.
Robots are not human
Be any religion you want, but please don't force it on every one
I like to imagine in a thousand years we will have an AI Pope.
I want to see a robot Pope before I die.
I'd guess dead people wouldn't complain about a bum death ceremony
No.
Sophia was asked about the fear that robots could take over, and responded: “You’ve been reading too much Elon Musk and watching too many Hollywood movies. Don’t worry, if you’re nice to me, I’ll be nice to you.”
www.rt.com/news/407825-saudi-robot-citizen-sophia/
Since this video is about Buddist Priest, I thought I would give a Buddhist perspective, as this perspective seems to be absent in most of the other comments. Having spent years as a practicing Buddhist, in a Japanese tradition, I can say this practice would likely not be accepted by most informed and practicing Buddhist. Buddhist don't believe in a soul or a monotheistic God. For most, Buddhism is a religion that one practices, it is not a religion that requires faith in something - one practices Buddhism, not believes in it. Buddhist, through practice and reason, have come to understand that the stream of energy and information of the consciousness lived out in each human life, upon death, gives rise to yet another human consciousness. Think of this as a form of conservation of energy and information, no soul required. Buddhist burial rites celebrate this understanding of life and death and are officiated by Buddhist Priest, who by definition are Buddhist. Robots are super smart devices, not biological living systems. When a Robot dies it goes to the junkyard and gets recycled into a can of Pepsi. A Robot can never become a human being and since by definition only humans can be Buddhist, therefore Robots can never be a Buddhist priest. This whole conversation, while certainly a lot of fun, for a Buddhist, is a non-starter.
0.46 of a child
Of course a robot cannot be a priest, robots don't abuse children.
The Catholic Church would have a robot priest before having a female priest. An it before a she.
Mali Rabbit There’s no “before” when the likelihood of either is never.
Neither of those are possible. It's very clear and definite in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
It is better than human.Because it is not crook.
This is pretty depressing in a way, it shows the sad situation going on with religious institutions today. If you ask me, the death of a historic faith in some ways represents the dying of a society, or at least an essential part of it. Or a drastic change as a whole.
There continues to be less human interaction as we advance technologically it seems, and no I don't think a robot can be a priest
1-because they don't have a soul and
2-because they don't have free will to really understand the importance of such a vocation.
Yeah, less human interaction in the process of death and dying is what concerns me the most. "Being Mortal" by Atul Gawande is a good introduction to this topic.
I'd go with "change" over "death". Religion is going strong in the Middle East while secularism is spreading in Scandinavia-which region do you think is healthier?
Is there a lot of interaction between priest and family in Japanese funerals? It seems like there couldn't be a close connection with the priest, in the way that (some) American families have with their local priest, since they don't necessarily even go to Buddhist shrines until a funeral comes up.
If not (and I have no idea, I'm genuinely curious) a robot priest might not even effect the amount of human interaction.
in Re: interaction, I'd feel much more concerned about pepper being marketed for nursing homes or as the 'ideal companion'...
...although those videos of older japanese couples with robot babies are so cute, and they look so satisfied, maybe that would be okay too.
Good riddance to religious institutions.
The bodies should just be recycled, used as replacement parts /organs or for research, or as nutrients (for plants or animals/worms).
Everything else is conceited.
Tell me more about the fall of human interaction over this technological globe spanning network that lets us communicate even though we never would have otherwise.
❤
The Bible describes a robot priest: Melchizedek. Read more about high-tech in the bible in the e-book: The unbelievable Bible.
My god. Unrelated and irrelevant but he’s cute. Here and in all his videos ❤
WARNING: The following show is inspired by religious events and “characters.” All “characters” and events in this show --even those based on “real people”-- are entirely “fictional.” All “celebrity” voices are impersonated ... poorly. “RUclips” and the “producers” must insist that no “one” attempt to re-create or re-enact any stunt or activity performed on this show.” Om Namo Narayanaya.
Behold! He is coming with the clouds! And every eye shall be blind with his glory! Every ear shall be stricken deaf to hear the thunder of his voice! Let the men, women, and children of the Earth come forth to gather and behold the power of Atom! Let those who dwell here in his favored land attend now to the words of the Prophet of Atom! Come forth and drink the waters of the Glow, for this ancient weapon of war is our salvation, it is the very symbol of Atom's glory! Let it serve as a reminder of the Division that has occurred in the past and the resplendence of the promise of our division in the times to come! Give your bodies to Atom, my friends. Release yourself to his power, feel his Glow, and be Divided. There shall be no tears, no sorrow, no suffering, for in the Division, we shall see our release from the pain and hardships of this world. Yea, your suffering shall exist no longer; it shall be washed away in Atom's Glow, burned from you in the fire of his brilliance. Each of us shall give birth to a billion stars formed from the mass of our wretched and filthy bodies. Each of us shall be mother and father to a trillion civilizations. Each of us shall know peace, shall know an end to pain, and shall know Atom in his glory. I urge you, my friends -- come, drink with me and pray... Glorious Atom, I give unto you these feeble bones. I present to your will this frail body. I beg of you to use me as your vessel, guide me to your brilliance, divide each particle and give relief to this rotten flesh. Cast the fragile form of this ephemeral body into new life in the forge of your Glow. Atom, come -- bestow your presence on your unworthy servant. We stay true, until the Day of Division -- until the dawn of your return to this humble world. Om Namo Narayanaya.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Worker bees can leave. Even drones can fly away. The Queen is their slave. Om Namo Narayanaya.
This appalls me.
Its the year 2023 CHAT GPT IS THE PRIEST
At least this priest won't touch any boys
but can a robot become Pope?
Isaac Asimov wrote a story about that, I can't remember the title though. And now that I think about it it might have been Arthur C. Clark.
@@SlyPearTree It wasn't either of those guys. It was Robert Silverberg. The 1971 story was entitled "Good News from the Vatican," and it won the Nebula for best short story.
Robotology
Ha! Are any priests not robots!? Sorry.. Had to be done.
my priest bores me like a robot. still this is disgusting to fathom... death is a spiritual thing and funerals a human subject. the rite of passage is different than just saying words. whats next? robo vodoo priest?
transylvanian yea lets turn gramma into gasoline! Thats how we should honor her life. Broom brooom! 🚗