Just a personal anecdote, I used the knees over toes guy's training method to fix years of knee and ankle pain and rehab from a torn hamstring. It worked wonders. I'm now at the point where I no longer pay for his training, but still incorporate many of the ideas into my own workouts.
The fact that we are scared to move our bodies in a certain range of motion because of an idea that it brings about injury is absurd. The avoidance of natural movement is exactly what is causing ROM movement related injuries in Western culture. Look at the front squat for example - why do we overload the back squat when almost every day we lift through the front at work, in day to day life etc. KOTG is a bit weird, but he's 100% right.
@@B717-l9o he lives in Clearwater Florida BTW lol if you Google his name or knees over toes guy with scientology you'll get his interviews in scientology magazines and other stuff. His family is in as well
I dealt with knee pain for a few years. After working it out, I do deep squats with just barbell 2-3x a week as an accessory and my knees are feeling stronger and stronger. Avoidance is not a solution.
It’s exactly the opposite. It’s crazy how it seems like people understand that you should be active in your recovery, yet miss the fact that they aren’t active in their warmups/stretches/ROM/recovery of squats or whatever other lift
@@Jonathan-A.C. Exactly, prehabilitation is as vital as rehabilitation in regards to exercise, much like any issue, taking a proactive stance massively mitigates the risk of something going wrong. I mean knowledge of flexibility and mobility training, and how essential it is to staying somewhat healthy, and in utilizing your strength through a complete range of motion while lowering risk of injury, is pretty lacking in the modern fitness industry, and as such is lacking in the fitness community. You do see some trend's against this, but despite there being a wealth of information out there people still fail to address basic aspects of human movement that effect every sport, and every physical activity. Hell flexibility is pretty essential even if you don't want to pursue athletic disciplines, because you need to compensate for what is most likely going to be a highly sedentary lifestyle due to how we work and live in the modern world. If you want to still be mobile when you age, training now is the best way to ensure that, as maintaining strength and mobility is far easier than building it. I would say this is a general issue with how many people see fitness and strength, and just how people see any form of activity in general though. It is easy to hyperfocus on a specific goal or stance, and only listen to people associated with this, instead of approaching the situation from a more generalized perspective whilst engaging in personal research and experimentation (which sounds far more complicated than it actually is). So much ignorance is passed from generation to generation as a result of this.
Zack, I would do the 5-minute squat at home during the pandemic and when I got back to the gym my coaches noticed the huge difference in my squat. Actually, PR’d my squat at a much greater depth than pre-pandemic. Thanks, brother!
@@owen2002 yes, that simple! While you’re down there you can lean side to side to focus on your ankles, lean forward and back to grease your hip joints, go between a rounded back and trying to make your torso as vertical as possible. Time will pass quicker the more you do it as you get more and more comfortable. If you look at the video he posted on the 5-minute squat he also mentions that you can use things like a pole to help you early on if it’s difficult to do at first
Personal experience: just implementing a couple of knees over toes exercises I got rid of a month lasting injury around my knee, I got able to squat again after almost a year, then I stopped doing his exercises and started feeling weird in my left quad, implemented them again and the issue disappeared, I dont know how nor why but it worked great for me, and I only used free stuff
Likely you had some instability in the stabilizing muscles after the injury, strengthening both the injured region, and muscles that complement this, can most certainly help you to get past such an injury in regards to mobility, even if the injured area isn't performing as it once was. The problem with knee injuries is that people often lose strength in the supporting muscles after a lack of use following an injury (the same goes for most soft tissue injuries honestly), and unless you rectify or compensate for this, moving as you once did can be very difficult, if not impossible.
@@simonsilva250 I did nordic hamstring curls, I did them two ways, full rom negatives and partial rom going down and up by myself, also reverse nordic curls and ATG split squats which I started at bw and now use a 10kg plate, I did them 3 times a week and currently 2, however I stopped doing the nordic curls no particular reason tho, I might bring them back. Sets were usually 4 reps 8-10 I also did toe touches, similar to Jefferson curls but my feet were on the ground and not on a platform, I did them daily and progressed to light dumbbells. Sets were plenty reps 10-15 since I was in lockdown I would usually do 1 or 2 sets after every class
@@AveSicarius yeap I really dont wanna sound like a cultist or anything but I own him a lot. I injured myself squatting in early march 2020, I couldn’t squat for roughly 9 months, I started implementing his exercises and I started squatting after a couple of weeks, very light tho and only front squats that seemed to stress my injured area very little to none in comparison to my back squat, now I can back squat again and Im stronger than ever
Great video Zack. I had previously done Ben's "Dense" system for several months and enjoyed the simplicity of each session, eg drive some good volume in only 3-5 movements per session, rather than massive circuits, ABCDEF blocks, that spread the intent too thin. I believe thats something you've talked about it prior videos. Ill also say that while I love the KOT/ATG movement selection/programming, I believe, the real sauce in why its been successful is the scaled back intensity. Building up volume at higher rep ranges in more isolated/regressed movements. Almost ubiquitously, the general fitness population, and many athletes (usually non-olympic sports), have jumped straight into high intensity types of training either from a metabolic or loading standpoint, without really any GPP or structured buildup. I think people would see similar successes with a Doc Yessis 1 x 20 or other introductory systems, that many coached athletes did for years before the high intensity weightlifting. On the other hand, many systems that market themselves as rehabilitative, probably underload people, and thus Ben has found a sweetspot. Also his vibe of "you can be awesome" is probably an important placebo that every system needs.
While He might come off as such, I doubt He's self righteous. I believe He's frustrated by the misinformation, the so called general knowledge and the lagging between the people on the ground and Academia/medical field. Stuart McGill was like that about studies on core strength and stability, same frustrations. You have to remember He went through hell because of his knee injury, incapacitated, flirting with meds addict depressed and so on. He took things onto his hand, did the work and is now sharing the knowledge to every one and all. He's shutting down the naysayers like the toxic champion in your recent video😁 I know that his "knee ability zero" did wonder for myself and my 70 years old mother. Bodily integrity is priceless.
One of the biggest pieces I see not being talked about is that the movements being performed don’t come out of the blue, those are movements developed over time with progressive load on the joints, tendons, and ligaments. Obviously if you spent your whole life doing linear movements your joints would be weak because they’ve only been train along a single plane. It’s about patience and consistency. I think most people inherently know that these movement are perfectly natural This is well known in gymnastics. A big part of gymnastics is joint training. That’s why anabolic use isn’t used/successful in this sport it does little to actually strengthen the joints needed to accomplish much of the techniques in the sport
perfect! Thats exactly what I found out. Just do the bw squat and spend a lot o time in the bottom position. No weights or anything. Just try to wiggle yourself lower for 5 to 10 minutes 2 to 7 times a week. Then just add normal squat training on top of that.
I tore the meniscus in my left knee the first week of August 2021. After almost 4 months of various treatments and PT movements, my knee had not progressed much. I still could not even do a body weight squat without some discomfort or pain. I started doing knees over toes the beginning of December. As of this last week I pause squatted 225x5 completely pain free and was able to do standing vertical jumps with max power and land pain free. In my experience, KOT has been really helpful and I will continue to do it.
Same here, I had really sharp pain in my knees and after a continuous leg workout it would start to get inflamed and really unstable, deep pains n whatnot. only weeks after doing his workouts daily and backwards walking on treadmills I feel like my whole life changed. getting up easier, putting weight into my legs more, running, having a 25 inch vertical jump. it's very real
i wanna ask what made physical therapy inefficient in developing your injury compared to kneesovertoesguy, was it him actually tackling the issue? the movements weren't helping? etc
ZT, I’ve been part of Patrick and Keegan’s coaching group for almost a year now which teaches the principles behind the kneesovertoes system - “Athletic Truth Group.’ Although what you said is mainly correct there is more to the system than what meets the eye, yes it’s just progression and regression but the system IS progression and regression at all levels of exercise and there’s a reason why every exercise is in there. I promise you that ATG training will improve your squat bottom position more than just sitting in a deep squat. You will be consciously and unconsciously better at squatting. It’s worth looking into the ATG program and learning the nuts & bolts, keen to see you in there.
Yeah, in my own experience, not having paid for anyones programs or anything. Deep pause squats are awesome, as are ATG split squats, and the only thing better than one or the other, is both.
@@Nebulaoblivion yeah I don’t disagree but there is so much more to ATG then the split Squat. Only doing both of those movements never puts emphasis on any particular weak point, just strengthening the system, except when you are as only strong as your weakest link.. why can’t 300kg hip thrusters also deadlift 300kg? Because of the inability to transfer force through the feet, up the lower leg correctly to the larger muscle groups. Of course there’s range components in that case but many people don’t put any emphasis on feet, tibs or any extensive calf function and development.. Pause squats will make you better at squatting but won’t improve global leg function. The ATG system won’t make you the strongest athlete as fast, but the potential will be much higher with increased skill to compress, transfer force and move the body any way that it should. Anyone reading this should go onto The ATG Mentor YT (Keegan) channel, go learn some good shit before starting to criticise (positively or negatively) a system that you at least haven’t tried to understand :)
@@lachyfreestone9311 You're ignoring moment forces/levers when comparing a 300kg hip thrust to a 300kg deadlift. What we can lift and in what positions is heavily influenced by leverage.
@@Itstime1231 Not ignoring, just comes under the various other factors I mentioned. I mean the importance of tension for momentum transfer and efficiency is key for sport and lifting, the weak point will be the break in the chain
I've often asked people if they are able to walk without their knees going over their toes, if they are able to climb and go downstairs with their knees not passing their toes, and if they are able to run or jog without their knees passing their toes and you always get that face of not knowing how to answer
What Kneesovertoesguy's preaching is already in many different sports literature books, it's just he took it and emphasized the knee strengthening parts and made it his gimmick. Make no mistake, most of what I saw him saying is legit and it works, but it's nothing new, except maybe for the exercises he came up with.
@@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg People tend to forget that Ben says this all the time - that none of this is new, and that he pulled this program together based on other literature.
@@arstans1777 yeah. He is forcing other coaches to adopt these things. Otherwise some of those fucking dinosaurs would always be like why fix it if it ain’t broken while every fucking athlete is broken🤣
Ben's reverse nordic helped me to resolve years of patellar tendonitis pain. They were murder to perform at the beginning, even when scaled down. Much of Ben's material is from Polequin and other predecessors, but kudos to him for (1) making it visible again, and (2) showing how to scale the moves or adapt with other equipment. Thank you Zack for reminding us of the 5 minute squat.
We are all in agreeance that training mobility and developing stabilizers are important for strength sports and joint health in general, but the second someone pushes the range of motion a little further than is typically seen in strength sports people wrote it off as heresy. I get how it comes across as shock value marketing like a certain Seedier man, but he is actually reducing the risk of injury and meaningfully developing the lower body, good to see he's one of the more reputable people pushing the literature forward.
Commenting for the algorithm gods: Developing squats from the bottom up makes complete sense from my experience. I got to weightlifting from Crossfit and to Crossfit from yoga. Yogis spend a lot of time hanging out in the bottom of the squat. Malasana if you will. Because of all this, squat mobility was never the limiting factor in my lifts. Thanks for your hard work.
Wow huge inspiration at the beginning for me, 2 years ago my squat pr was 90kg and that was all out max (age 19) I felt really weak, and I had big problems with leg mobility for a long time, I constantly thought I just had a shit squat and sucked at it, but I actually had managed to do 90 x 2 three months ago and still felt I could go a bit higher (and this all beltless btw) A lot of people can squat more than me, but I stopped caring about others and the weights used. Now to continue watching I GUESS..
Have you ever heard about the 5x5 stronglifts ? It is a good training to get better at the basics(squat, press and deadlift) there is even an app so you can track it.
I'm late 30's 6ft2" 89kg and had been having weird knee pain for the past couple of years that made it painful to drop into a squat and was doing my head in. Just before going to see a Physio I randomly saw an older vid of Zach's where he started a workout with holding a 5 min deep squat, just holding the bottom position, really sinking into it. I started this and my knee pain just went away. Still had a few sessions with the physio, who found I had weak glutes and helped me "feel" what activated glutes and stable core should feel like. Also around then started BJJ and practicing this deep squat, good warm ups and general mobility has been essential for it. The biggest impact for me has been the new confidence from being able to change my state, from "waking up feeling like shit / aches and pains" to warming-up, feeling limber > after work, going to bjj class, coming home sore > stretch > sleep > repeat... but steadily making progress - feels better than just being stuck on the getting old part ha🤙
Zack, fantastic video per usual my man. I love the approach you take with these. I wanted to address your self righteous comment. Imo, it’s not self righteous at all. He’s simply just stating what he believes will happen as more people learn about this. This isn’t “his stuff”, he just went and found the data and created a system to test said data. He wasn’t the first one to use these methods he’s just one of the first guy to market and brand it the way he did. The “self righteousness” you are seeing is called passion.
It all makes sense. Everything he's claiming about the textbook thing especially. A lot of the common knowledge stuff he is contradictory to is actually based on faulty testing and/or outright lies. For example the shear force study for atg squats was a fabrication to prove a hypothesis correct. Bill Starr participated in that one himself and has written articles on the researchers fabricating data to prove himself right. That study then went on to define a huge portion of "info" on knees and squat depth/knee angle in sport. And it was all lies.
So it just makes sense that especially with more info circulating faster now that the truth will become common knowledge eventually. And the textbooks will finally catch up.
I’m an advanced lifter and I have benefited a lot from Knees Over Toes Guy methodology to training. I have added about 50 lbs to my high bar back squat and front squat. I’ve added 80 lbs to my RDL (for reps). I have not tested my Deadlift since beginning the Knees Over Toes stuff since the program is a lot of volume so I removed the conventional deadlift so that it doesn’t affect recovery. I like the calf/anterior tibialis work, the nordic curl, single leg back extensions, jefferson curls, seated good mornings, all the weighted hip flexor work, sissy squats, Peterson step ups, and the split squat lunges.
I'm on the KOT program and it's legit, also the regressions and advice and coaching they provide does make sense and does drive results. Only criticism I have is it's focused on only forward and back strength and explosiveness and nothing lateral. I think the outside looking in criticism is just a reaction to his brashness and confidence in the stuff he's found to work for people. He's "too confident" and so they want to cut the stuff down without even trying it or listening. Also thanks for the vid recommendations. Bottom up squat makes a lot of sense.
Yo the 5min squat is legit what made me subscribe a while back. I thought of giving up heavy squats as a 6'4 long ass leg Boi. I am now confident going to the gym and squatting
Have u tried the "horse stance" → many people are convinced, that u can benefit from this position, which means: increasing strengh, jump strengh and physical & mental condition. And its even possible for people with mobility issues. Maybe you can try that out.
His program/philosophy is a little whack because of the lack of the major compound movements, claiming his movements are better alternatives. That being said, his content provides an irreplaceable and invaluable catolog of extremely effective yet uncommon exercises that serve as excelllent tools to have in anyone's utility belt of exercise selection i.e. in addition to the ones you mentioned there's reverse nordics, tibialis raises, knees over toes calf raises (simple yet game changers for the ankle),hip flexor raises, powell raises, cross bench lat pullover, ql extensions, extreme rom pushups/dips, etc.
7:05 I think what he's trying to say isn't that his stuff will be in text books in 30 years but rather the fundamental concept of moving and staying active while injured. It takes decades for these kinds things to become standard clinical practice. ATM many physical therapists aren't up to date and many still focus on pontless shit like "RICE", correcting assyemtry, avoiding painful movements and overly convoluted diagnoses for non specific issues while completely abandoning the biopsychosocial model.
My wife grew up in Indonesia, where she says people will literally squat on the sidewalk to eat their lunch. Everyone should be able to get there with enough time in the hole.
Yes, totally this. As an Indonesian, I never really had any mobility issues because of what you said. We pretty much do so many things in the squat position. So I never really got the "knees shouldn't go over the toes" thing.
@@BuJammy i wrote the sport conditiining the body wrong. What i wanted to say IS... Their dancing demands actually training the body for such positions, because they see beauty in such movements and they Chase after them. Most people can do splits. Almost never without training. For example. People Who "cant Split" just dont train It enough
KneesOverToesGuy SAVED my life. I can't believe how much it's changed my pain from ACL repair on one knee and bad medial (excised) and lateral (ignored advice to operate and THANK GOD) meniscus damage
ive been incorporating the movements he promotes over the last 3 years and having suffered with knee pain/niggles for a majority of my late 20's...now mid 30's. The results i have gotten are byond any previous physio work. Wasn't too comfortable at first, but continually working on those extreme knee flexion movements and loading them.....best my knees have ever felt. Most stable i've ever been in terms of dynamic movements. Lower body in general just feels great.
I'd love to get a 230kg squat. I'm 25 now and my PR is 185. Should probably do more filming of myself. And I do struggle a lot with the overhead squat so this helps.
@@BuJammy so you’re saying Protestants have tight hips? Haha…. Good point tho hip socket depth and a persons unique hip socket anatomy will play a huge roll in a persons squat depth.
Great video pet usual and as someone with an MS in exercise phys, I can tell you this is already in plenty of advanced texts out there. Also, with 3 out of 4 menisci torn and a surgericly repaired fractured petella, for me sitting in the bottom of a squat for 5-10 minutes daily really makes a difference. I also routinely sit at the bottom of a squat with weight and believe it has drastically helped my lower body strength and stability as well as my back and core. I have taken 405 max parellel squatters and had them try to sit at the bottom (ATG) for 10 seconds with 225 and most can't do it due to the ROM, balance, or core strength. Along with imbalances, I believe this is where plenty of injuries occur on the field/court. Great strength in a limited ROM+weak relative stabilizer strength+unpredictable angles in sports=recipe for disaster.
I incorporate the five-minute BW squat into every workout and I can't tell you how much it's helped. I PRed my backsquat (which hasn't moved since 3 years ago!) with much, much, much better depth, and I don't feel as run-down as I did when I was younger. Thanks, ZT.
So your criticism is that he is self righteous. then you start recommending your mobility videos and your leg program. What was your goal with this video?
Athletic Trainer/CSCS here. The issue with knees over toes guy has never been the exercise selection. It has always been that he says these movements are the best way to fix knee pain and that simply isn’t true. We know every case is different and it will always depend on the athletes specific circumstances. I trust him to understand the biomechanics and adapt each case, but I don’t trust his ATG certified coaches who are blindly following and programming his movements and can’t explain why they could be effective from a physiological perspective when called out. A good coach has the ability to cherry pick ideas from different coaches and realms to craft their own niche and make the profession better, but when young coaches and athletes have a narrow minded view and only program one way, it’s more harmful than helpful in my opinion.
knee pain as a clinical condition should only be treated by clinical professionals. im sorry but "knee pain" is quite complicated and should not be left with egotistical trainers who think they know everything.
Speaking from experience, I started to do both your 5 minute deep squat hold Zack and Ben’s ATG split squats last year. Never needed to wear a pair of knee sleeves when squatting after that. My confidence in squatting deep shot up which led to me becoming more comfortable catching the bar deep when snatching or cleaning. I do agree: regressions are very important.
Great video liked and subscribed. Do you think your 5m deep squat hold will improve knee health as well? I know many people swear reverse sled pulls are the #1 way to improve knees. I've been running backward on treadmill to simulate it and have seen results.
Friends don't let friends skip leg day which is why sometimes I laugh that instead of having a V taper, as men, we should seek to have a Y taper since it indicates you have a strong base (which is your legs)
I actually never thought twice about deep squats since I’ve been flexible enough to deep squat my whole life. But i gotta say, it’s also hard to add weight to the squat when you’re already that flexible
From Personal experience ,I'm been doing knee over toes for 3 months now and it has change everything about my knees. Even after meniscus repair surgery it has made an impact like no other. I'm doing great and improving. Maybe you should try it the program .
Be a mover not squatter. Strengthen the joints and ligaments in every possible way because we don't always do squats in real life like in the gym...and that is only one kind of squat.
Tony Boutagy in Sydney was teaching over the knee single leg split squat for the structural balance phase of training 20 years ago teaching the importance of the deep stretch of the movement at the long length of the partial. His devised a workout that weeds out all muscle imbalances between left and right and agonist and antagonist including known weak muscles(Rotators, Lower traps etc) that were obvious from the data. None of this(at least in its entirety) is still available on RUclips or mentioned by Nippard, Isrealti, Wolf etc... Only now Wolf and Isrealti are mentioning best Glute exercises as a deep stretched one which also can include a leg press(not known before), Tony gave a formidable glute exercise as part of the structural balance phase as the single leg/ leg high on the leg press with a heel push 20 years ago.
I have ankylosing spondylitis and my knees crunch with immense, long lasting pain. I can’t body weight squat or jump rope. I did Knees Over Toes for a month and saw no progress. Maybe I should try again and do it for a few months? I dunno
I’ve been loving this channel lately. Don’t like knees over toes guy personally though, not at all because what he says or the training philosophies, just think he’s annoying af
Bro. Asians and Slavs "sit" in this squatting position in their free time. Why do you think they're the best? Also, from an evolutionary standpoint it's the most natural way to take a shit. Having the abdomen lower than the knees is optimal. (Don't take my word for it google it yourself). Toilets in southeast Asia (and China) are squat toilets (in developed areas they of course have western toilets too). Talking from experience living in Thailand and traveling around southeast Asia. I've seen Thai people sitting in this position for more than an hour comfortably.
their body proportions give them advantages. I have long femurs and cant atg no matter what I do. I will never be able to compete in high level as a Asian lifter as I will never be an elite NBA player because I am short.
Knees over toes guy fixed my knee pain, but I just never could squat right and now I’m waiting for bi-hip replacement surgery.. don’t take anything as gospel
@@__-wm9lu I’m sorry, is the program going to regrow disks in my back and destroyed bone and cartilage? It’s a great program but things are not that black and white. I’ve lived with this for 20y, and KOTG helped with some, not all of the problems
My knee pain was so bad that I would lather them in icy hot, take pain killers, use knee braces on both knees, then go to work only to work 4 hours and leave due to pain. Knees over toes and his ATG program fixed this completely. Used to not be able to bend my legs at all, now can do things I never thought I could do.
All he's really done is tell people to do prehab exercise, I don't understand what the hype is all about. It's not hard to find info that says, if a joint or muscle is weak, find a movement thats stressful and regress it to the point that you can do it safely then build from there until you can perform that stressful exercise and the target area will become stronger. That's basic info is it not??
dude, he's not saying his stuff will be in the books, he's saying the stuff is already known and the books take a long time to be up to date. It's not self-righteous
I ever could understand people that were afraid of deeper from, like if your joints and connective tissue wasn't meant for deep rom then your body wouldn't be able to go that deep in the first place.
Do you guys realize that 100 years ago Hackenschmidt wrote about various deep knee bends (Hack squats) as basics in lower body strengthening? None of this is new lol
On the textbook issue - I’ve been a Poliquin fan for a while. This is another point that Ben got from him. Concepts get in textbooks by repeated proofs via scientific method, which takes a lot of time, money and effort. Good coaches are trying new stuff all the time, and using what works, so the evidence isn’t as clear as a double blind placebo study, but the process is quicker, and results in the gym are what give you a competitive advantage. If textbooks were the path to Olympic gold, then all you would need to do is read the textbook, but gold medals are won by knowing something that the textbook won’t tell you. The best practitioners are ahead of science in that way. I get the self righteous comment though, I think it’s probably because he didn’t give enough credit to his forbearers when talking to Joe. Joe needed to bring up that Louis was the one who started doing sled work, not Ben. Poliquin was getting results long before Ben Patrick (and many more gold medals), and probably others getting great results before Poliquin. Ben is just doing the social media thing really well. You gotta give credit where credit is due though, and Ben could have done better in the podcast.
As a big fan of Poliquin.. I saw how he was lambasted by the "science-based" influencers. Poliquin didn't feel he needed to push his practice to the general market, because he was doing well otherwise. Ben deserves credit for distilling and beating social media over the head with the methods and he often credits Poliquin and Simmons.
I only do quarter and half Squats. Never full deep Squats. Have had great success with huge strength and power gains as well as size. And for performance such as sprinting and jumping, quarter Squats actually are superior to full Squats according to the research.
Just do some phil wharton style ankle mobility and a floor hip opener and your knees will automatically allow the proper movement of the rest of the limbs. Knee is not the decider - it is a facilitator. Knee is never tight. Ankles, groin, shoulders, back , etc get tight. You can always bend your knees past 90 degrees. It's the tight glutes and calves which prevent you from doing so in a deep squat position. This knee-centric approach is faulty..
I know I’m commenting on an old video but for what it’s worth, Ben credits all of ‘his’ exercises to other people that came up with them first. All he’s done is create a program with all of these exercises together. So when you say it seems self righteous, he’s not saying that HIS exercises with be in text books, he’s saying that these exercises that have been around for decades will finally be given some merit.
Here’s a heuristic for you guys to use to navigate anything to do with academia or science: if a person with no formal training or qualifications claims knowledge that is overruling entire disciplines and bodies of knowledge, maybe you should be sceptical.
I am somebody who, because of my job, sometimes spend several hours every day in a deep squat. I have found it to be maximally beneficial in coming up from the bottom of the squat, but I have a very difficult time right in the middle of coming up from my squat. Any tips?
I was into this KOT guy, but his preachy presentation and scientology connections turned me off. Started to feel like i'd been duped... or maybe I just got sick of the tib raises. In all honesty though, I found the program irritated my patella tendonopathy too much to be useful for me personally.
HEY Zach I want to thank you bro for the advice on fixing that squat posture to look more like the olympic lifters. My knees are eternally greatfull and the booty gainz look lit! Salute to you sir!
We've come to understand training our muscles and cardiovascular systems but for some reason we don't think about developing and training our soft tissue ligaments and tendons the same way just in a longer time frame because they don't recover at the same speed muscles do It clicked for me when I thought of it this way, of course we should strengthen every part of our body specifically with training not just our muscles
I don't think he means his stuff in the text books, I think he means the exercise meant for your knee whether it's his stuff or someone else's. Basically instead of saying avoiding going over the toes logic will be reversed and people will encourage and teach it.
I Really like Knees over toes guy, the excercises he provides are great, and when he started he put out an absurd amount of content and amazing knowledge for free onto his channel- he has absolutely gone a bit far with the way he says and does things, just the way he frames himself and his product just really makes him seem like just another ' i have all the answers" fitness charlatan, even though i do truly believe what he says is true
What are some good exercises to lengthen and strengthen the adductors? One odd one i do is with a mini sckateboard. Just step on it with one foot and do the side splits for reps🙃. Kind of works. But the muscles and connectives are too weak to work the full range
The fact he came to Joe Rogan's podcast and Rogan was like wow amazing and just went and did stem cells on his knees afterwards should tell you everything 🤣 oh man
Just a personal anecdote, I used the knees over toes guy's training method to fix years of knee and ankle pain and rehab from a torn hamstring. It worked wonders. I'm now at the point where I no longer pay for his training, but still incorporate many of the ideas into my own workouts.
Any of his exercises you found worked best?
@@toomuch9762 The step up, tibialis raises, and the hamstring work were quite helpful. If probably depends on the person.
Just an anecdote but maybe its because you weren't doing anything for your pain before
@@justinboom836 but his program gave him something to follow and do….that’s exactly what is for
@@eaglelopez7463 Yeah exactly it was the beginning of me methodically addressing my knee dysfunction
The fact that we are scared to move our bodies in a certain range of motion because of an idea that it brings about injury is absurd. The avoidance of natural movement is exactly what is causing ROM movement related injuries in Western culture. Look at the front squat for example - why do we overload the back squat when almost every day we lift through the front at work, in day to day life etc.
KOTG is a bit weird, but he's 100% right.
That's a good point
EXACTLY what I’m saying. You have to move like you want to move
How’s he weird
@@Limbaugh_ Watch literally any of his videos and he's going to be a bit loony.
100% is a stretch, no one man has all the answers
KOT guy is a scientologist so that's why he comes off weird IMO. He has the same vibe as Tom Cruise
That explains the wild eyed look and strange/cringe intensity I got weird vibes from watching a few of his vids last fall. Tks.
How do you know he’s a Scientologist?
@@B717-l9o he lives in Clearwater Florida BTW lol if you Google his name or knees over toes guy with scientology you'll get his interviews in scientology magazines and other stuff. His family is in as well
Yeah he was pretty like short and like sorta angry with Joe at points. Weird energy for surw
I JUST added hamstring exercises to my workouts. And immediately my knees felt the best they have in 10+ years.
I dealt with knee pain for a few years. After working it out, I do deep squats with just barbell 2-3x a week as an accessory and my knees are feeling stronger and stronger. Avoidance is not a solution.
It’s exactly the opposite.
It’s crazy how it seems like people understand that you should be active in your recovery, yet miss the fact that they aren’t active in their warmups/stretches/ROM/recovery of squats or whatever other lift
@@Jonathan-A.C.
Exactly, prehabilitation is as vital as rehabilitation in regards to exercise, much like any issue, taking a proactive stance massively mitigates the risk of something going wrong.
I mean knowledge of flexibility and mobility training, and how essential it is to staying somewhat healthy, and in utilizing your strength through a complete range of motion while lowering risk of injury, is pretty lacking in the modern fitness industry, and as such is lacking in the fitness community. You do see some trend's against this, but despite there being a wealth of information out there people still fail to address basic aspects of human movement that effect every sport, and every physical activity. Hell flexibility is pretty essential even if you don't want to pursue athletic disciplines, because you need to compensate for what is most likely going to be a highly sedentary lifestyle due to how we work and live in the modern world. If you want to still be mobile when you age, training now is the best way to ensure that, as maintaining strength and mobility is far easier than building it.
I would say this is a general issue with how many people see fitness and strength, and just how people see any form of activity in general though. It is easy to hyperfocus on a specific goal or stance, and only listen to people associated with this, instead of approaching the situation from a more generalized perspective whilst engaging in personal research and experimentation (which sounds far more complicated than it actually is). So much ignorance is passed from generation to generation as a result of this.
@@AveSicarius
Precisely.
Yep.
Exactly. Really these are all just summed up perfectly and accurately
Zack, I would do the 5-minute squat at home during the pandemic and when I got back to the gym my coaches noticed the huge difference in my squat. Actually, PR’d my squat at a much greater depth than pre-pandemic. Thanks, brother!
That's awesome man
How did u do this 5 minute squat? Is it just sitting in the bottom position of a squat for 5 mins
@@owen2002 yes, that simple! While you’re down there you can lean side to side to focus on your ankles, lean forward and back to grease your hip joints, go between a rounded back and trying to make your torso as vertical as possible. Time will pass quicker the more you do it as you get more and more comfortable. If you look at the video he posted on the 5-minute squat he also mentions that you can use things like a pole to help you early on if it’s difficult to do at first
Personal experience: just implementing a couple of knees over toes exercises I got rid of a month lasting injury around my knee, I got able to squat again after almost a year, then I stopped doing his exercises and started feeling weird in my left quad, implemented them again and the issue disappeared, I dont know how nor why but it worked great for me, and I only used free stuff
Could you tell us more about what exercises you used and how you programmed them to help you in your specific case?
Likely you had some instability in the stabilizing muscles after the injury, strengthening both the injured region, and muscles that complement this, can most certainly help you to get past such an injury in regards to mobility, even if the injured area isn't performing as it once was.
The problem with knee injuries is that people often lose strength in the supporting muscles after a lack of use following an injury (the same goes for most soft tissue injuries honestly), and unless you rectify or compensate for this, moving as you once did can be very difficult, if not impossible.
@@simonsilva250 I did nordic hamstring curls, I did them two ways, full rom negatives and partial rom going down and up by myself, also reverse nordic curls and ATG split squats which I started at bw and now use a 10kg plate, I did them 3 times a week and currently 2, however I stopped doing the nordic curls no particular reason tho, I might bring them back. Sets were usually 4 reps 8-10
I also did toe touches, similar to Jefferson curls but my feet were on the ground and not on a platform, I did them daily and progressed to light dumbbells. Sets were plenty reps 10-15 since I was in lockdown I would usually do 1 or 2 sets after every class
@@AveSicarius yeap I really dont wanna sound like a cultist or anything but I own him a lot. I injured myself squatting in early march 2020, I couldn’t squat for roughly 9 months, I started implementing his exercises and I started squatting after a couple of weeks, very light tho and only front squats that seemed to stress my injured area very little to none in comparison to my back squat, now I can back squat again and Im stronger than ever
@@notdescartes4538 thanks for sharing!
Great video Zack. I had previously done Ben's "Dense" system for several months and enjoyed the simplicity of each session, eg drive some good volume in only 3-5 movements per session, rather than massive circuits, ABCDEF blocks, that spread the intent too thin. I believe thats something you've talked about it prior videos. Ill also say that while I love the KOT/ATG movement selection/programming, I believe, the real sauce in why its been successful is the scaled back intensity. Building up volume at higher rep ranges in more isolated/regressed movements. Almost ubiquitously, the general fitness population, and many athletes (usually non-olympic sports), have jumped straight into high intensity types of training either from a metabolic or loading standpoint, without really any GPP or structured buildup. I think people would see similar successes with a Doc Yessis 1 x 20 or other introductory systems, that many coached athletes did for years before the high intensity weightlifting. On the other hand, many systems that market themselves as rehabilitative, probably underload people, and thus Ben has found a sweetspot. Also his vibe of "you can be awesome" is probably an important placebo that every system needs.
6:08 for him talking about kneesovertoesguy
While He might come off as such, I doubt He's self righteous.
I believe He's frustrated by the misinformation, the so called general knowledge and the lagging between the people on the ground and Academia/medical field. Stuart McGill was like that about studies on core strength and stability, same frustrations.
You have to remember He went through hell because of his knee injury, incapacitated, flirting with meds addict depressed and so on. He took things onto his hand, did the work and is now sharing the knowledge to every one and all.
He's shutting down the naysayers like the toxic champion in your recent video😁
I know that his "knee ability zero" did wonder for myself and my 70 years old mother.
Bodily integrity is priceless.
One of the biggest pieces I see not being talked about is that the movements being performed don’t come out of the blue, those are movements developed over time with progressive load on the joints, tendons, and ligaments. Obviously if you spent your whole life doing linear movements your joints would be weak because they’ve only been train along a single plane. It’s about patience and consistency. I think most people inherently know that these movement are perfectly natural
This is well known in gymnastics. A big part of gymnastics is joint training. That’s why anabolic use isn’t used/successful in this sport it does little to actually strengthen the joints needed to accomplish much of the techniques in the sport
perfect! Thats exactly what I found out. Just do the bw squat and spend a lot o time in the bottom position. No weights or anything. Just try to wiggle yourself lower for 5 to 10 minutes 2 to 7 times a week. Then just add normal squat training on top of that.
That's truuu
I tore the meniscus in my left knee the first week of August 2021. After almost 4 months of various treatments and PT movements, my knee had not progressed much. I still could not even do a body weight squat without some discomfort or pain. I started doing knees over toes the beginning of December. As of this last week I pause squatted 225x5 completely pain free and was able to do standing vertical jumps with max power and land pain free. In my experience, KOT has been really helpful and I will continue to do it.
Same here, I had really sharp pain in my knees and after a continuous leg workout it would start to get inflamed and really unstable, deep pains n whatnot. only weeks after doing his workouts daily and backwards walking on treadmills I feel like my whole life changed. getting up easier, putting weight into my legs more, running, having a 25 inch vertical jump. it's very real
i think i have the same problem, fell off my bike and have a discomfort in my knee. May I ask where did you get KOT exercises?
i wanna ask what made physical therapy inefficient in developing your injury compared to kneesovertoesguy, was it him actually tackling the issue? the movements weren't helping? etc
I have a torn medial menuscus in my left knee. I have pain when trying to fully flex my knee. How did u progress to pain free squats?
@@D.Blackeyed check out if your Bakers cyst is inflated. I had the same problem where i cant get my leg behind me
I’d rather have 10 knees over toes guys than 1 Joel seedman
ZT, I’ve been part of Patrick and Keegan’s coaching group for almost a year now which teaches the principles behind the kneesovertoes system - “Athletic Truth Group.’ Although what you said is mainly correct there is more to the system than what meets the eye, yes it’s just progression and regression but the system IS progression and regression at all levels of exercise and there’s a reason why every exercise is in there. I promise you that ATG training will improve your squat bottom position more than just sitting in a deep squat. You will be consciously and unconsciously better at squatting. It’s worth looking into the ATG program and learning the nuts & bolts, keen to see you in there.
Yeah, in my own experience, not having paid for anyones programs or anything. Deep pause squats are awesome, as are ATG split squats, and the only thing better than one or the other, is both.
@@Nebulaoblivion yeah I don’t disagree but there is so much more to ATG then the split Squat. Only doing both of those movements never puts emphasis on any particular weak point, just strengthening the system, except when you are as only strong as your weakest link.. why can’t 300kg hip thrusters also deadlift 300kg? Because of the inability to transfer force through the feet, up the lower leg correctly to the larger muscle groups. Of course there’s range components in that case but many people don’t put any emphasis on feet, tibs or any extensive calf function and development.. Pause squats will make you better at squatting but won’t improve global leg function. The ATG system won’t make you the strongest athlete as fast, but the potential will be much higher with increased skill to compress, transfer force and move the body any way that it should. Anyone reading this should go onto The ATG Mentor YT (Keegan) channel, go learn some good shit before starting to criticise (positively or negatively) a system that you at least haven’t tried to understand :)
@@lachyfreestone9311 You're ignoring moment forces/levers when comparing a 300kg hip thrust to a 300kg deadlift. What we can lift and in what positions is heavily influenced by leverage.
@@Itstime1231 Not ignoring, just comes under the various other factors I mentioned. I mean the importance of tension for momentum transfer and efficiency is key for sport and lifting, the weak point will be the break in the chain
I've often asked people if they are able to walk without their knees going over their toes, if they are able to climb and go downstairs with their knees not passing their toes, and if they are able to run or jog without their knees passing their toes and you always get that face of not knowing how to answer
What Kneesovertoesguy's preaching is already in many different sports literature books, it's just he took it and emphasized the knee strengthening parts and made it his gimmick. Make no mistake, most of what I saw him saying is legit and it works, but it's nothing new, except maybe for the exercises he came up with.
Yes. That's why he always credits ppl like Poliquin and Ziani and Louie and others.
@@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg People tend to forget that Ben says this all the time - that none of this is new, and that he pulled this program together based on other literature.
He almost single handledly made this knowledge so well known that it's slowly becoming mainstream, so he deserves some credit
You gotta have a gimmick to make it on social media.
@@arstans1777 yeah. He is forcing other coaches to adopt these things. Otherwise some of those fucking dinosaurs would always be like why fix it if it ain’t broken while every fucking athlete is broken🤣
Ben's reverse nordic helped me to resolve years of patellar tendonitis pain. They were murder to perform at the beginning, even when scaled down. Much of Ben's material is from Polequin and other predecessors, but kudos to him for (1) making it visible again, and (2) showing how to scale the moves or adapt with other equipment. Thank you Zack for reminding us of the 5 minute squat.
We are all in agreeance that training mobility and developing stabilizers are important for strength sports and joint health in general, but the second someone pushes the range of motion a little further than is typically seen in strength sports people wrote it off as heresy. I get how it comes across as shock value marketing like a certain Seedier man, but he is actually reducing the risk of injury and meaningfully developing the lower body, good to see he's one of the more reputable people pushing the literature forward.
And he posts a shit ton of research associated to every claim he makes.
Commenting for the algorithm gods: Developing squats from the bottom up makes complete sense from my experience. I got to weightlifting from Crossfit and to Crossfit from yoga. Yogis spend a lot of time hanging out in the bottom of the squat. Malasana if you will. Because of all this, squat mobility was never the limiting factor in my lifts.
Thanks for your hard work.
Yeah ATG system works soo good. Its all regressions, also the form coaching app and learning to form coach yourself are huge
Been doing for a year. Complete god send
Wow huge inspiration at the beginning for me, 2 years ago my squat pr was 90kg and that was all out max (age 19)
I felt really weak, and I had big problems with leg mobility for a long time, I constantly thought I just had a shit squat and sucked at it,
but I actually had managed to do 90 x 2 three months ago and still felt I could go a bit higher (and this all beltless btw)
A lot of people can squat more than me, but I stopped caring about others and the weights used.
Now to continue watching I GUESS..
Have you ever heard about the 5x5 stronglifts ? It is a good training to get better at the basics(squat, press and deadlift) there is even an app so you can track it.
KOTG is legit AF. Improved all my lifts without even lifting heavy. I have new knees now, basically.
Just some walking backwards and the atg split squat has made me be able to squat fully down without pain in just a few months, its like actual magic
Is he probably right about knees? Yes. Is he also nuts? Yes.
What makes him nuts?
@@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg scientology
Ngl 9:21 had me shook for a second till he took that shoe away
I'm late 30's 6ft2" 89kg and had been having weird knee pain for the past couple of years that made it painful to drop into a squat and was doing my head in. Just before going to see a Physio I randomly saw an older vid of Zach's where he started a workout with holding a 5 min deep squat, just holding the bottom position, really sinking into it. I started this and my knee pain just went away. Still had a few sessions with the physio, who found I had weak glutes and helped me "feel" what activated glutes and stable core should feel like. Also around then started BJJ and practicing this deep squat, good warm ups and general mobility has been essential for it. The biggest impact for me has been the new confidence from being able to change my state, from "waking up feeling like shit / aches and pains" to warming-up, feeling limber > after work, going to bjj class, coming home sore > stretch > sleep > repeat... but steadily making progress - feels better than just being stuck on the getting old part ha🤙
Zack, fantastic video per usual my man. I love the approach you take with these.
I wanted to address your self righteous comment.
Imo, it’s not self righteous at all. He’s simply just stating what he believes will happen as more people learn about this. This isn’t “his stuff”, he just went and found the data and created a system to test said data. He wasn’t the first one to use these methods he’s just one of the first guy to market and brand it the way he did. The “self righteousness” you are seeing is called passion.
Well said
It all makes sense. Everything he's claiming about the textbook thing especially. A lot of the common knowledge stuff he is contradictory to is actually based on faulty testing and/or outright lies. For example the shear force study for atg squats was a fabrication to prove a hypothesis correct. Bill Starr participated in that one himself and has written articles on the researchers fabricating data to prove himself right. That study then went on to define a huge portion of "info" on knees and squat depth/knee angle in sport. And it was all lies.
So it just makes sense that especially with more info circulating faster now that the truth will become common knowledge eventually. And the textbooks will finally catch up.
I’m an advanced lifter and I have benefited a lot from Knees Over Toes Guy methodology to training. I have added about 50 lbs to my high bar back squat and front squat. I’ve added 80 lbs to my RDL (for reps). I have not tested my Deadlift since beginning the Knees Over Toes stuff since the program is a lot of volume so I removed the conventional deadlift so that it doesn’t affect recovery.
I like the calf/anterior tibialis work, the nordic curl, single leg back extensions, jefferson curls, seated good mornings, all the weighted hip flexor work, sissy squats, Peterson step ups, and the split squat lunges.
I'm on the KOT program and it's legit, also the regressions and advice and coaching they provide does make sense and does drive results.
Only criticism I have is it's focused on only forward and back strength and explosiveness and nothing lateral.
I think the outside looking in criticism is just a reaction to his brashness and confidence in the stuff he's found to work for people. He's "too confident" and so they want to cut the stuff down without even trying it or listening.
Also thanks for the vid recommendations. Bottom up squat makes a lot of sense.
Where can you get the program
Yo the 5min squat is legit what made me subscribe a while back.
I thought of giving up heavy squats as a 6'4 long ass leg Boi.
I am now confident going to the gym and squatting
Have u tried the "horse stance" → many people are convinced, that u can benefit from this position, which means: increasing strengh, jump strengh and physical & mental condition. And its even possible for people with mobility issues. Maybe you can try that out.
His program/philosophy is a little whack because of the lack of the major compound movements, claiming his movements are better alternatives. That being said, his content provides an irreplaceable and invaluable catolog of extremely effective yet uncommon exercises that serve as excelllent tools to have in anyone's utility belt of exercise selection i.e. in addition to the ones you mentioned there's reverse nordics, tibialis raises, knees over toes calf raises (simple yet game changers for the ankle),hip flexor raises, powell raises, cross bench lat pullover, ql extensions, extreme rom pushups/dips, etc.
Starts talking about knees over toes guy around 6:00
7:05 I think what he's trying to say isn't that his stuff will be in text books in 30 years but rather the fundamental concept of moving and staying active while injured. It takes decades for these kinds things to become standard clinical practice. ATM many physical therapists aren't up to date and many still focus on pontless shit like "RICE", correcting assyemtry, avoiding painful movements and overly convoluted diagnoses for non specific issues while completely abandoning the biopsychosocial model.
My wife grew up in Indonesia, where she says people will literally squat on the sidewalk to eat their lunch. Everyone should be able to get there with enough time in the hole.
Yes, totally this. As an Indonesian, I never really had any mobility issues because of what you said. We pretty much do so many things in the squat position. So I never really got the "knees shouldn't go over the toes" thing.
@@BuJammy and cant that be cultural?
This is an Asian thing, not just Indonesia
@@BuJammy so if its not cultural, how come dancing posture relates to the ability to Deep squat
@@BuJammy i wrote the sport conditiining the body wrong. What i wanted to say IS... Their dancing demands actually training the body for such positions, because they see beauty in such movements and they Chase after them. Most people can do splits. Almost never without training. For example. People Who "cant Split" just dont train It enough
0:37 the most rewarding part of the job imo
The BOmni speaketh truth!
Helped my Ankles, Tibialis and Lower back for Jiujitsu....I Highly Recommend his programs
0:36 so you're basically saying that you use reverse movement technology.
KneesOverToesGuy SAVED my life. I can't believe how much it's changed my pain from ACL repair on one knee and bad medial (excised) and lateral (ignored advice to operate and THANK GOD) meniscus damage
ive been incorporating the movements he promotes over the last 3 years and having suffered with knee pain/niggles for a majority of my late 20's...now mid 30's. The results i have gotten are byond any previous physio work.
Wasn't too comfortable at first, but continually working on those extreme knee flexion movements and loading them.....best my knees have ever felt. Most stable i've ever been in terms of dynamic movements. Lower body in general just feels great.
In other words... 'Joe Rogan please invite me on your damn show PLEEEEAAAASSSSEEE!'
We need to talk about KneesOverToesGuy.
He is self righteous.
But first let me talk about myself for 6 minutes.
Great vid! Can't wait to start working towards a 5 minute squat.
I'd love to get a 230kg squat. I'm 25 now and my PR is 185. Should probably do more filming of myself. And I do struggle a lot with the overhead squat so this helps.
We don’t squat culturally.
@@BuJammy so you’re saying Protestants have tight hips? Haha…. Good point tho hip socket depth and a persons unique hip socket anatomy will play a huge roll in a persons squat depth.
Im a powerlifter and I like doing the 5 minute squat in saunas
kneesovertoesguy helped me heal my knee! great stuff!
I’ve two knee injuries and EVERYTHING he’s said has helped me more an anyone
Great video pet usual and as someone with an MS in exercise phys, I can tell you this is already in plenty of advanced texts out there. Also, with 3 out of 4 menisci torn and a surgericly repaired fractured petella, for me sitting in the bottom of a squat for 5-10 minutes daily really makes a difference. I also routinely sit at the bottom of a squat with weight and believe it has drastically helped my lower body strength and stability as well as my back and core. I have taken 405 max parellel squatters and had them try to sit at the bottom (ATG) for 10 seconds with 225 and most can't do it due to the ROM, balance, or core strength. Along with imbalances, I believe this is where plenty of injuries occur on the field/court. Great strength in a limited ROM+weak relative stabilizer strength+unpredictable angles in sports=recipe for disaster.
I incorporate the five-minute BW squat into every workout and I can't tell you how much it's helped. I PRed my backsquat (which hasn't moved since 3 years ago!) with much, much, much better depth, and I don't feel as run-down as I did when I was younger. Thanks, ZT.
So your criticism is that he is self righteous. then you start recommending your mobility videos and your leg program. What was your goal with this video?
Athletic Trainer/CSCS here. The issue with knees over toes guy has never been the exercise selection. It has always been that he says these movements are the best way to fix knee pain and that simply isn’t true. We know every case is different and it will always depend on the athletes specific circumstances. I trust him to understand the biomechanics and adapt each case, but I don’t trust his ATG certified coaches who are blindly following and programming his movements and can’t explain why they could be effective from a physiological perspective when called out. A good coach has the ability to cherry pick ideas from different coaches and realms to craft their own niche and make the profession better, but when young coaches and athletes have a narrow minded view and only program one way, it’s more harmful than helpful in my opinion.
knee pain as a clinical condition should only be treated by clinical professionals. im sorry but "knee pain" is quite complicated and should not be left with egotistical trainers who think they know everything.
Speaking from experience, I started to do both your 5 minute deep squat hold Zack and Ben’s ATG split squats last year.
Never needed to wear a pair of knee sleeves when squatting after that. My confidence in squatting deep shot up which led to me becoming more comfortable catching the bar deep when snatching or cleaning.
I do agree: regressions are very important.
Great video liked and subscribed. Do you think your 5m deep squat hold will improve knee health as well? I know many people swear reverse sled pulls are the #1 way to improve knees. I've been running backward on treadmill to simulate it and have seen results.
Just walking backwards on the treadmill for 6 minutes everyday got rid of my knee pain
Why aren't you on Joe Rogan yet?
Who’s joe?
@@isaacpiper510 JOE MOMMA
My two favourite channels
Friends don't let friends skip leg day which is why sometimes I laugh that instead of having a V taper, as men, we should seek to have a Y taper since it indicates you have a strong base (which is your legs)
yeah but no one wants to look like a t-rex like guys who stayed on starting strength forever
I actually never thought twice about deep squats since I’ve been flexible enough to deep squat my whole life. But i gotta say, it’s also hard to add weight to the squat when you’re already that flexible
From Personal experience ,I'm been doing knee over toes for 3 months now and it has change everything about my knees. Even after meniscus repair surgery it has made an impact like no other. I'm doing great and improving. Maybe you should try it the program .
Be a mover not squatter. Strengthen the joints and ligaments in every possible way because we don't always do squats in real life like in the gym...and that is only one kind of squat.
Tony Boutagy in Sydney was teaching over the knee single leg split squat for the structural balance phase of training 20 years ago teaching the importance of the deep stretch of the movement at the long length of the partial. His devised a workout that weeds out all muscle imbalances between left and right and agonist and antagonist including known weak muscles(Rotators, Lower traps etc) that were obvious from the data. None of this(at least in its entirety) is still available on RUclips or mentioned by Nippard, Isrealti, Wolf etc... Only now Wolf and Isrealti are mentioning best Glute exercises as a deep stretched one which also can include a leg press(not known before), Tony gave a formidable glute exercise as part of the structural balance phase as the single leg/ leg high on the leg press with a heel push 20 years ago.
Subbed after watching this vid. Love seeing someone who agrees with the training but can also be objective about it. Great sruff
Where can I get your cap Zack?
Gonna need you to form that bill sir. Or wear it backwards.
damn that ending got me fucking hype
one of the best rogan guests as of late, not some crazy nutjob so its definately a positive for the JRE
He is still very Rogan in that he is very "anti-establishment", just in an actual positive way for once
Which rogan guest are nut jobs?
I have ankylosing spondylitis and my knees crunch with immense, long lasting pain. I can’t body weight squat or jump rope.
I did Knees Over Toes for a month and saw no progress.
Maybe I should try again and do it for a few months? I dunno
People don't think about their ankles. They understand "bend your knees" and "fold at the waist" but the ankles get ignored.
I’ve been loving this channel lately. Don’t like knees over toes guy personally though, not at all because what he says or the training philosophies, just think he’s annoying af
Bro. Asians and Slavs "sit" in this squatting position in their free time. Why do you think they're the best? Also, from an evolutionary standpoint it's the most natural way to take a shit. Having the abdomen lower than the knees is optimal. (Don't take my word for it google it yourself). Toilets in southeast Asia (and China) are squat toilets (in developed areas they of course have western toilets too). Talking from experience living in Thailand and traveling around southeast Asia. I've seen Thai people sitting in this position for more than an hour comfortably.
their body proportions give them advantages. I have long femurs and cant atg no matter what I do. I will never be able to compete in high level as a Asian lifter as I will never be an elite NBA player because I am short.
@@pauloalves1847 Yes Paulo, plus they learn it from a very young age. I think that plays a big role
@@pauloalves1847 wrong
Bruh Ben Patrick is great
I always liked using ido portal’s squat routine , it’s quite similar to the 5 min squat challenge but a bit more fatiguing .
It might have been the KOTG was just saying that the data hes applying will be in the textbooks
Knees over toes guy fixed my knee pain, but I just never could squat right and now I’m waiting for bi-hip replacement surgery.. don’t take anything as gospel
Keep working on his program and that hip will fix too.
@@__-wm9lu I’m sorry, is the program going to regrow disks in my back and destroyed bone and cartilage? It’s a great program but things are not that black and white. I’ve lived with this for 20y, and KOTG helped with some, not all of the problems
@@JaleM literally yes. Research Louie Simmons and the reverse hyper. That’s exactly what he did.
My knee pain was so bad that I would lather them in icy hot, take pain killers, use knee braces on both knees, then go to work only to work 4 hours and leave due to pain. Knees over toes and his ATG program fixed this completely. Used to not be able to bend my legs at all, now can do things I never thought I could do.
All he's really done is tell people to do prehab exercise, I don't understand what the hype is all about. It's not hard to find info that says, if a joint or muscle is weak, find a movement thats stressful and regress it to the point that you can do it safely then build from there until you can perform that stressful exercise and the target area will become stronger. That's basic info is it not??
dude, he's not saying his stuff will be in the books, he's saying the stuff is already known and the books take a long time to be up to date. It's not self-righteous
But didn’t say that I see him as self righteous, rather there are some who might.
@@zacktelander whatever
K
For the algo..this needs attention. Well done. Like your stuff a lot, squatting is priority ever since
I ever could understand people that were afraid of deeper from, like if your joints and connective tissue wasn't meant for deep rom then your body wouldn't be able to go that deep in the first place.
Do you guys realize that 100 years ago Hackenschmidt wrote about various deep knee bends (Hack squats) as basics in lower body strengthening? None of this is new lol
Hes not wrong, but people have been saying this in CF and strength since at least ~2006. This isn't news to anyone in lifting who reads.
On the textbook issue - I’ve been a Poliquin fan for a while. This is another point that Ben got from him. Concepts get in textbooks by repeated proofs via scientific method, which takes a lot of time, money and effort. Good coaches are trying new stuff all the time, and using what works, so the evidence isn’t as clear as a double blind placebo study, but the process is quicker, and results in the gym are what give you a competitive advantage. If textbooks were the path to Olympic gold, then all you would need to do is read the textbook, but gold medals are won by knowing something that the textbook won’t tell you. The best practitioners are ahead of science in that way.
I get the self righteous comment though, I think it’s probably because he didn’t give enough credit to his forbearers when talking to Joe. Joe needed to bring up that Louis was the one who started doing sled work, not Ben. Poliquin was getting results long before Ben Patrick (and many more gold medals), and probably others getting great results before Poliquin. Ben is just doing the social media thing really well. You gotta give credit where credit is due though, and Ben could have done better in the podcast.
As a big fan of Poliquin.. I saw how he was lambasted by the "science-based" influencers.
Poliquin didn't feel he needed to push his practice to the general market, because he was doing well otherwise.
Ben deserves credit for distilling and beating social media over the head with the methods and he often credits Poliquin and Simmons.
I only do quarter and half Squats. Never full deep Squats. Have had great success with huge strength and power gains as well as size. And for performance such as sprinting and jumping, quarter Squats actually are superior to full Squats according to the research.
Just do some phil wharton style ankle mobility and a floor hip opener and your knees will automatically allow the proper movement of the rest of the limbs. Knee is not the decider - it is a facilitator. Knee is never tight. Ankles, groin, shoulders, back , etc get tight.
You can always bend your knees past 90 degrees. It's the tight glutes and calves which prevent you from doing so in a deep squat position. This knee-centric approach is faulty..
I know I’m commenting on an old video but for what it’s worth, Ben credits all of ‘his’ exercises to other people that came up with them first. All he’s done is create a program with all of these exercises together. So when you say it seems self righteous, he’s not saying that HIS exercises with be in text books, he’s saying that these exercises that have been around for decades will finally be given some merit.
I squatted 120kg on squat after less than 2 months of lifting.
No prior sport experience...
It's genetics.
Here’s a heuristic for you guys to use to navigate anything to do with academia or science: if a person with no formal training or qualifications claims knowledge that is overruling entire disciplines and bodies of knowledge, maybe you should be sceptical.
I am somebody who, because of my job, sometimes spend several hours every day in a deep squat. I have found it to be maximally beneficial in coming up from the bottom of the squat, but I have a very difficult time right in the middle of coming up from my squat. Any tips?
I was into this KOT guy, but his preachy presentation and scientology connections turned me off. Started to feel like i'd been duped... or maybe I just got sick of the tib raises. In all honesty though, I found the program irritated my patella tendonopathy too much to be useful for me personally.
great stuff
HEY Zach I want to thank you bro for the advice on fixing that squat posture to look more like the olympic lifters.
My knees are eternally greatfull and the booty gainz look lit!
Salute to you sir!
We've come to understand training our muscles and cardiovascular systems but for some reason we don't think about developing and training our soft tissue ligaments and tendons the same way just in a longer time frame because they don't recover at the same speed muscles do
It clicked for me when I thought of it this way, of course we should strengthen every part of our body specifically with training not just our muscles
He is legit
What if your limbs just don’t allow you to deep squat? Say you have super long femurs and tibias. Do you think the deep squat is still worth while?
I don't think he means his stuff in the text books, I think he means the exercise meant for your knee whether it's his stuff or someone else's. Basically instead of saying avoiding going over the toes logic will be reversed and people will encourage and teach it.
Thanks for the overview! Just sprained my ACL and am looking for good recovery workouts - any tips?
I Really like Knees over toes guy, the excercises he provides are great, and when he started he put out an absurd amount of content and amazing knowledge for free onto his channel- he has absolutely gone a bit far with the way he says and does things, just the way he frames himself and his product just really makes him seem like just another ' i have all the answers" fitness charlatan, even though i do truly believe what he says is true
What are some good exercises to lengthen and strengthen the adductors?
One odd one i do is with a mini sckateboard. Just step on it with one foot and do the side splits for reps🙃. Kind of works. But the muscles and connectives are too weak to work the full range
The fact he came to Joe Rogan's podcast and Rogan was like wow amazing and just went and did stem cells on his knees afterwards should tell you everything 🤣 oh man