If you think the hack squat is easy, it's because you train like a pussy. I do both back squats and hack squats in my program and nothing hurts more than an actual near failure set on the hack squat.
The only core exercise I might agree is not needed is the flat bench. I do not think you need a flat bench to build a good chest. You need a squatting motion to build good legs and the deadlift, although probably the riskiest, is excellent at building overall strength. Now he said “barbell squat” and to be fair there is a ton of plate loaded or weight stack squatting motions such as pendulum or hack.
The squat is one of the 7 foundational human movement patterns. You don't need to be breaking world records, but you should be doing some variation if you want to be truly strong and capable.
One of the biggest wake up calls you can give someone - do you want to helped on and off the toilet in your later life? No? Then you have to maintain a body weight squat minimum. A loaded barbell will also give you even better core strength to go with it.
The lady watching here. I love squatting even though I was rubbish at it when I learnt the "old way", even though I've done yoga for 20 years and can sit comfortably in a super low body squat for ages. Your techniques make so much more sense and have helped me a lot. No stupid leg presses for me. Barbell all the way!
I completed my first 3 sets of 225 for 5 reps yesterday. I know it’s not that much, but it’s a lot more than what I started out squatting. The barbell back squat has become one of my favourite movements now. 🏋🏽♂️
Coaches who say this kind of crap about Squats are overrated ...etc. Those coaches are speaking to those athletes who want to have bigger legs in the main muscle groups AKA Bodybuilders. These people don't want to have a better posture, better weight distribution, or core strength while doing certain movements like the clean and snatch. They simply just want bigger legs.
But most of them don't specify that, rather intentionally I would assume, so they reach a bigger audience. I consider this rather misleading for beginners or recreational lifters (like myself), who can get much more out of their time in the gym than bigger legs, when doing squats.
Back squats are a great way to get bigger legs from a bodybuilding perspective, you just need to modify technique some in most cases. Platz squats are a great place to start. If you're really strong and don't want as much systemic fatigue, you can pre-fatigue the quads with leg extensions. The raw stimulus magnitude of a deep back squat with a controlled eccentric can't really be overstated. In my observation, it's a minority of people who perform them correctly for hypertrophy. People are too ego driven (want to horse weights at all times) and don't like doing squats in the hypertrophy range.
@@jballs1879he forgot to tell you, theres a difference between aesthetics body building bs vs high performance athletes including amateurs. Thats the big difference. Body building pussy can have big legs from doing leg press but can they do athletic stuff that a high performance athletes do? Mostly those aesthetics vanity bs cannot even run, swim to save their lives.
Heres me spending 20 min of my evening listening to zack explaining every little detail to me like i was a gym newbie, prentending like im actually deeply interested and still really freaking enjoying it! Damn your videos are awesome man. You really have such a talent for wxplaining those things, even to someone who already knows this. KEEP UP YOUR WORK. It seriously enriches my life and lifting experience. Much love from germany
Second this, I really enjoy the sound logic behind your arguments. In general your videos are great refreshers and filled with awesome new knowledge or perspectives. I’m trying to become a weightlifting coach and your content is my blowing to me, the trip to japan was amazing, the visits to the gyms and conversations with the coaches. Top tier weightlifting content, also I’ve noticed how more random people at the gym are bringing up your videos and instagram account 🤙🏻
I FUCKING LOVE THIS VIDEO More info like this is needed for the “long femur community” For years I believed ankle mobility was the problem. Felt bad my squat didn’t look like others. FINALLY, I realized I was anatomically different than most people squatting around me. Learning about the femur length was a game changer.
I'm 6'7" and I went through this journey back in 2008. I lifted with my university's powerlifting club (basically the only people that had access to proper weights) and was told the whole "you should keep your shins as vertical as possible, or at least not let the knees track beyond the toes" thing. No matter how much I tried, I could not go below parallel whilst trying to do that, and I'd end up with a ridiculously horizontal back trying (so basically I was good morninging my squats). Then I started to think about it, I watched some weightlifters squatting (and I'll admit that, a bit like Clarence Kennedy said in your recent video, I just plain thought it looked more cool). I stumbled on an article on ExRx giving a bunch of stretches to improve squatting mobility and after a few months I was squatting hamstrings to calves with a relatively upright torso. Not only did it feel better, not only was it more fun, but after a few months of doing it that way it overtook anything my old, above parallel powerlifting style squat had ever managed. It transformed squatting from an exercise that I hated and feared to one I always look forward to. I'm sure that my build means I'll never squat as much as someone else of a similar weight to me who's built for squatting, but that's fine. I was never going to win any competitions anyway, and am happy to simply compete with myself.
I'm 5'7 with long femurs and a bad dorsiflexion, and during years I thought I was just not built to do backsquats. Now, using the zercher as a first approach (as it is less limitating mobility-wise) and the 5 minute squat routine from Zack, I can backsquat with a nice technique, front squat and do olympic weightlifting. And it is a good circle: now I feel strong and never had such mobility. It feels so great. I PR'ed just today and hope I'll be able to squat more in the future!
The phrase which comes to my mind is ‘physical literacy’. Knowing your squat inside out through various stances, tempos, type of squat etc contributions greatly to your understanding of your own body and mechanics. I think approaching the squat with a white belt mentality for 10 years plus is some of the best training you can do.
Hey dude, as someone with a degree in sports science and one in osteopathy I completely agree with you. From both an athletic and a health perspective, achieving a deep squat is very desirable. I'm 6'3" and do weightlifting. I love your channel, great content! Writing this comment from a deep squat.
I feel you Zach! I'm 6'3" with a 6'8" wingspan. Very long femurs, my wife is 5'2" and when we sit at a table we are eye level lol! I just started taking legs very seriously and fell in love with the squat. Past four months went from 255 1RM to 365 1RM! It took a lot of ankle and hip mobility and finding my proper foot placement. I take so much pride in my form that people come up to me and ask advice all the time at my Crunch gym. Thanks for your content, it has helped tremendously.
I started by just doing pause squats, with just 135 and going and sitting in the bottom for about as long as I could stand it, and then exploding upwards as fast as possible. To me, this is WAY more engaging than just doing the typical slow eccentric/concentric squatting movement. Plus, you can only do long pause squats with much less than your 1RM, so it's near impossible to get "stuck" anywhere...unless you stay in the bottom position for like 5 minutes lol
While I completely agree with Zack there are some things I would add to his statements: 1. Having long femur is not the problem exactly, but the proportion of a long femur with sorther tibia. (IT CAN ALSO BE FIXED WITH PRACTICE AND MOBILITY EXERCICES SHOWED IN THIS VIDEO) 2. Zack has the longest femurs you can find in a gym, but the relation femur/tibia looks like a 1:1 because he also has long ass tibias. No intent to hate with this coment, It's just my physiotherapist/personal trainer picky personality. And before people jump on me, all my clients learn to do high bar back squats and most of them get really good at it! Keep up with the work Zack, I love your videos!
Athlean-X (Jeff) has only uploaded 7 leg related workout videos in his last 115 uploads. He covers his legs up with pants and has never worn shorts. That says it all right there - don't listen to anything he says. He's a shirtless 6-pack abs and biceps clickbait chaser for youtube views. 90% of issues with squats is a stiff ankle, not enough dorsiflexion...or upper body too tight and person isn't cleared to actually hold a bar on back (you fail the wall arm slide test)
For the average person, aka 90% of people, nothing beats the squat for leg development. And MOST, if not all, of these coaches throwing shade on squats, built the bulk of their leg mass with it.
First off: I like back squats and I like the message that anyone COULD back squat. . But I've also come to realize that there are very valuable alternatives for people who don't want to or "can't" back squat. And videos like these make it seem like heavy back squats are somehow mandatory. If you're not a weightlifter or powerlifter, they are not necessary, but just another option.
I've been considering dropping the barbell back squat all together because its by far my worst lift and I am not built for it but this video has inspired me to approach it in a different way. thank you for the inspiration.
I am 6ft 4 as well and mostly leg. I started out in HS doing back squats with foot ball where were taught nothing and had a bad time doing them. I had that same reasoning that it wasn’t for me and just tried to use leg machines to get strong. It didn’t work and I went back to squats. The purpose of strength training isn’t too “build muscle” that’s just a form of reasoning to excuse your self from learning new movements and giving hard effort. The purpose of strength training is to load normal human movement patterns in progressive way. As side effect muscles are built bigger and performance in life and sports improve. Another big thing is you have to learn something you’ve never done. In squatting my two biggest places I learned form was from Starting Strength and Zack both have changed my training immeasurably. Learning that science and every picky little detail from SS and then learning to just sit in a deep squat from Zack has improved my mobility, strength, and performance by leaps and bounds.
When did Jeff Cavaliere have this take?? He has repeatedly said, as far as I can recall, that the squat is one of the best exercises you can do to develop the entirety of the lumbo-pelvic-hip complex. Since when did he say it was overrated or overhyped?
Bro idk bout this one. Feel like both sides are trying to talk in absolutes. “Squats are overrated” vs “squats are perfect, you just suck at em”. Dude c’mon, people just wanna workout and be healthy, everyone on a different stage of their fitness journey. If they don’t wanna squat cause they don’t like the movement pattern and don’t feel like putting in the work, then so be in. My back is jacked up from the years of playing rugby all my life, and from doing BJJ. I can’t handle the compression from back squats anymore. For legs I’m stuck with KB goblet squats, split squats, hiking and bike sprints on my concept 2. But I guess I’m a big lazy puss boy cause I don’t wanna hit barbell squats anymore? All this is just nuance.
I feel the point of the video is to educate people in proper squat technique. As guys who are arguing against squats, teach the squat wrong. These days peoples squat form is solid, but i see maybe 50% of people taking traditional/powerlifter squat cues and are either quarter squatting or have unathletic looking parallel squats. Of course there are outliers such as yourself and greg doucette who have hip/back issues. But there shouldnt be an excuse for anyone else to perform a basic human movement.
Zack. My main COMPLAINT about this video and i'm pretty sure coach Greg has pointed it out before is that the squat is sport specific. Bodybuilding coaches like Greg Doucette primarily focus on bodybuilding techniques, which may not always align with powerlifting or weightlifting practices. As someone who has been working on addressing buttwink for quite some time, I have found machines to be superior for my needs and that of teenagers (Greg's main audience). They are beginner-friendly, safer, and require fewer stabilizers, enabling me to focus on the mind-muscle connection. Additionally, I've noticed that squats have contributed to an undesirable increase in my waist size. I agree with you that kinesthetic awareness and proprioception are vital for proper squat technique. However, I think these aspects can be challenging for an online coach to teach effectively, especially to a large audience of teenagers who might not have sufficient experience or guidance. Safety is paramount, and improper squatting technique could lead to injuries if not properly addressed(if you're lifting self-taught, which almost all bodybuilding teenagers do) My argument is that while the squat may be enjoyable and beneficial for you, it might not be equally beneficial for everyone, particularly in sports or activities where it is not a primary requirement. For instance, for bodybuilders or those focusing on aesthetics, other exercises and techniques may be more suitable and yield better results. This video to me seems like you just want everyone to squat because YOU think it's cool. This video seems incredibly bias and I still don't understand why EVERYONE needs to learn the squat. I love the squat but you really don't need it.
With all due respect, the people with qualifications in biometrics that say squats aren’t a good exercise for people with long femurs are correct, you are not. You don’t have long femurs in RELATION TO YOUR TORSO. When you are in the bottom squat position, I can see your shoulders protrude past your knees - your knees look like they could comfortably tuck into your armpits. When I am in that position, my knees protrude past my shoulders because my femurs are long in relation to my torso. It’s even more obvious when I am in a class and we all do child’s post - everyone else’s knees sit at or behind their armpits, my knees are slightly past the top of my shoulders. When back squatting, your femurs essentially put your butt so far back and your torso has to be long enough to lean forward to bring the bar back over the middle of your foot. My torso is to short to achieve that thus the weight of the bar sits behind my heel. To make it worse I’m female so have more weight in the hips/butt than a man so there is even more weight distributed behind my heels. All the weight sitting behind your heels literally pulls me backwards off balance. I have worked with an osteopath (ie expert in biomechanics) who specialises in correcting movement patterns and even with him increasing my ranges of motion, etc, we concluded squats aren’t a good exercise for me. Goblet squats are doable but am limited by how much weight I can hold in my hands, I can scrape by with back squats with a wider stance and toes out but still struggle with those (ie cannot achieve “good form”.
You're absolutely right, it not about femur length but it's the relation to the torso. As a 5'10" male with crazy long femurs and short torso who lifts for almost 7 years but still struggles to squat 225 for a few clean reps despite having great ankle mobility, done basically everything but my squat hasn't improved, it's a shame because my deadlift 1rm is 515bs and I can bench 300 pounds any day.
never did any squats, ever. Squats always cause injuries and DESTROY your body. I always used leg press and hack squat machines. But I did more isolation work and spinning. I could leg press 700 lbs at 120lbs bodyweight in high school and ran a 45.3 400m in college.
"Pick movements that suit your anatomy and motion capabilities." should read, "pick movements that CHALLENGE your anatomy and motion capabilities." If I'm coaching someone and they are having trouble with one of the foundational movements, guess what we're going to do more of? That fucking movement! Why? Because we're virtually guaranteed to get more of a training stimulus from a challenging movement than a movement which we are inherently more comfortable with. I've had Parkinson's for 10 fucking years now and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to train with the intensity that's been so therapeutic for me over the past decade, but I can tell you this for sure, the barbell back squat will be the LAST movement that I cut from my training.
I was the gym bro doing 405 lbs + partial squats like you did in the beginning. I finally decided to actually do them correctly in full range of motion and had to back all the way down to 135 lbs. Couple years later, I just hit 430 lbs last week for a single. One of the best things i've done was deciding to find a way to get into that bottom position and then just stand up. Great video and educational information that will hopefully help many people!!
I have really long femurs (I'm 6'2") and absolutely love back squatting. I started doing them 13 years ago when I started weightlifting and they have never given me issues. No excuses
everyone can squat. its a basic movement pattern like walking or carrying something. unless youre disabled, you shoukd be able to train the squat too, and the barbell back squat is one of the best ways if not the best way to train that movement pattern 24.8.14
Saying backsquats are overrated or dangerous completely ignores the fact that the back squat is one of the most basic fundamental human movements, and until western culture decided that chairs were more comfy then the floor the basic resting position was the bottom squat. Before we took a dump in a toilet the bottom squat was our shitting position. there's a reason you see literally every toddler just chill in a bottom squat, and it's cause it is a primal human position. The fact that people can't back squat isn't because of the movement but because they lack the mobility.
I think squatting is overrated, especially in weightlifting for amateurs. So much of the weightlifting world is just smashing kids with squats and the ones who respond well to that become champions, and the ones who don't, well they quit or got cut when they didn't perform as well as the others so we never hear about them. And that idea of constant squatting and basically nothing else filters down to the amateur level. But many of us are of the caliber that quit or got cut, still trying to squat as if we aren't, and wondering why all this squatting isn't doing much for us beyond injury. I trained weightlifting for many years trying every damn method of squatting there is and mostly just accumulated every damn squat related pain there is and never really gained much strength before another injury knocked me back to square one. It wasn't til I started training in a commercial gym and doing more in the way of basic leg extensions and lunges etc that my knee pain stopped and squatting became not entirely damaging. But even still, I can struggle to have any kind of productive squat session, then casually bench the same weight for more reps, because it's just so much easier on my body. And that's absurd because I'm a weightlifter and I've never put any thought into training the bench. I'm probably the worst squatter of all time in terms of time and effort invested to results achieved. So I gave up on traditional squat training and my squatting these days is more along the lines of getting a minimal effective dose of loading and skill at the squat, then bulking out my leg strength with other exercises. I'm a lot healthier and happier for it.
for bodybuilding it is really highly overrated! of course you need to be able to do it (bring the requirede mobility to be healthy people) and also in terms of strength building and general coordination, so you should do it from time to time. But in terms of muscle building itself, it is waisted time... no matter if front or back squat or whatever. the breaking point is, you will always fail because of technique which will break at some point. Either you cannot breathe it anymore and therefore your core tension will gone, too dangerous for lower back, which is the point in most of cases. Or your overall technique will break, knees fall in etc. - there is always one week point. But it never will be the quad itself. heavy set of 10 reps at RPE 9 is only a RPE 5 for the quads. But when doing leg press, hack squat or whatever, you dont have that techniqure problem, meaning you can press until you really kill your quads. I have training for years only with squats, legs were always to small. now I've built my own leg press, and legs are really growing from now on. Squats are only important for powerlifters/wheightlifeters to build there strenght, but I would also recommend them doing a press variaton, it will build up more muscle mass which will also results in stronger squats (I am powerlifter, this is my personal experience)
Long femur/ short torso guy. I've been squatting low bar for 7 years with back pain until i had enough of it and decided not to squat anymore. Then I saw Clarence Kennedys deep squat and decided to try it out. It took me 4-5 training sessions to find position that feels comfortable, and now it's my favorite movement in the gym. Zero pain.
Loved the leg press machine. Couldnt squat because of lower back pain. My trainer told me i had lower back pain because I didnt squat... Started to squat - back pain gone. He was right!
Your points didn't invalidate or really contradict the points made by the other coaches. The one point I think you did make well is the self-assessment that squats aren't right for an individual lifter. A trained eye/coach should assess the suitability of any exercise for a lifter, and that could change over time.
When I started squatting for the first time ever at the age of 24, I was probably the worst squatter in the world. Not even close to getting parallel. That's when I realised just how bad my mobility actually is and I was determined to improve. Now I've done 170kg deep squats, and I can tell you that no other exercise has brought as much improvement into my life as much as the squat has. Everything started to just feel better and easier once I started squatting deep.
Also the fact Zack used himself as the baseline for people with long femurs isn't fair or accurate. One person cannot be used to define thousands or even millions of people. It's an anecdotal example.
AthleanX literally put the squat at a top for quad development calling it the best for overall leg growth. Saying that he call the squat overrated is wrong
As someone who has a stupidly bad femur to torso ratio, ATG squats are one of my favourite exercises I use lifting shoes to help keep an upright torso, but there’s nothing better for overall leg development than ATG squats, regardless of your leverages. 1:301:30
people just don't get that, over time any kind of anatomy adapts to any kind of movement over time. And there are insane benefits to that. Also the longer the femur - the more time to ascend - which means more time under tension translating to higher muscle mass!
@@arulkumaran4674 Correct. Whilst my 1RM low bar is only 315 (ATG and beltless), my legs are waaaay bigger than when I used to do powerlifting depth using a belt and was hitting 385-395lbs consistently.
i went from skipping leg day (90% of the time) for years to 100% olympic lifting. the ONLY leg specific movement i did was back and front squats (maybe 80% back and 20% front). my legs grew substantially in those 5 years. i did ZERO additional leg specific exersizes. now that i got back in to bodybuilding, i think my legs are my best attribute.
Between the high bar and low bar back squat, you should be able to find one that works for you. I cannot do a high bar squat or front squat without seriously fucking up my back, however the low bar squat doesn't give me back pain at all.
Really interesting vid. Your take here is kinda close to Rippetoe's, "yah there are guys with their bullshit degrees, but if you're new then you don't know anything yet, so just shut up and do your fives."
Your squat routine got me from falling with a 15 lb snatch to a 120 lb snatch in 6 months. I'm a first yr crossfit, never used weights. 5'3" and all your advice still helped all my lifts
@@daniel1RM it wasn't that the weight wasn't coming up. I couldn't balance at the bottom. After the 5 minute squat I was able to balance the weight at the bottom and keep better form. It was never a strength issue. I had a mobility issue. Now I can lift a more appropriate weight for me because I don't have a mobility limitation
Squat is a great exercise. Honestly, I have more beef with the deadlift exercise because that's what caused me some small issues with my back. But squats are fantastic. And I play volleyball and hike lots. Definitely can see that power transfer.
I'm 2 inches taller than Zack and have longer femurs and I love squatting, it's honeslty easier and more fun than doing like 5 different leg accessories, and helps with the sports I did and currently do. No reason not to squat for 95% of people who lift.
Im 37. Squatted from 14 to 34. Ever since I stopped and focused on pendulum squats, hacks and leg presses my legs exploded. If you're a bodyduilder don't let anyone tell you you have to do a specific exercise. Do what makes you grow.
I love the deep squat but help, my right knee is constantly numb and hurts a little. But I keep squatting which makes it feel worse every time, I want to heal but I want to squat better so I am not hurting my knee. Im only squatting 155-185 lbs so it shouldnt be this rough on my joints right?
Go to an orthopedist and diagnose the problem, no one will guess what is your problem, that's what doctors are from . It is possible that your technique is bad, but there is also a chance that you are doing everything perfectly, but there is a problem with the knee X-ray or MRI will give the answer.
Well put Zack- when I started weightlifting, I was very tempted to say "I suck at these movements because of my anatomy" - Nope, just needed practice, better technique, and improved mobility for full range of motion... it's easy to latch on to a fitness content creator saying the same thing and use it as a cop out or excuse to quit.
Zack is 100% correct on this topic based on my own experience. I’m just over 6’6” and didn’t start squatting atg until i was 40 years old. I had to start from scratch and greatly improve my mobility but it’s totally possible with the right knowledge and progressions
I'm 6'7" and since taking time off from lifting in the pandemic have had a really hard time squatting without beating my joints up. Tried this methodology yesterday (found a solid bottom position holding a post then worked up to a paused single) and today is the best my joints have felt in years. This video is solid gold
Folks are looking for an easy way; strength doesn't come easy tho, demands learning and understanding you body; thank you brother for doing what you do. I hope you read this.
I've always said that if there's only one movement I could do, it would be some variation of a squat. There's so many benefits to it, especially when it comes to other sports/cross training or life in general.
Crazy how, this day and age, we have coaches, pts, dr, chiro etc... antagonize basic movements pattern... they should all be penalized for causing kinesiophobia. Great vid!
Learning ATG squat changed my life. Really. It sounds ridiculous when I say it, but it was the perfect exercise that opened a gateway into doing so much more in the gym. And when you go to the gym alot because its finally rewarding your life revolves around it. It takes that little tweak, to change everything in your workout. I stand by the ATG squat.
I'm 5'11. I'm not tall but above average height. I tried High bar squatting but I kept getting tingles in my arms. By switching to low bar. I feel more control in the moving of weight. I had a problem. I fixed it. No Excuses. Just improve.
I coach them with goblet squats, kb 2 box sumo squats then max rom zercher squats and then barbell squats if still mobility not there ATG split squats, 1 leg max rom vertical leg press, 1 leg box deep step downs and the back squat becomes easy takes good 6 months for beginner with very poor mobility & 0 awareness. Had 6'5 tennis player with super long femurs ATG squats no problemo in a matter of 4 months at age 35yo who have never squated before. We need 7' guy to dismiss this propaganda theory ATG BB Back Squats not for everyone.
The best exercise is the one you like doing. If you hate squats dont do them. If you love bulgarian splits do them. Idk, for most lifters its about feeling and enjoying it. I for example dont do squats because i just dont like how they feel and how to set them up - my legs are still big, dont worry; i do bulgarians instead and some other isolation exercises.
I have many jokes I want to make, but in seriousness, this is the way. I get Zack’s perspective, esp. coming from a strength sport, but the vast majority of people in gyms are never going to compete in their lives, so strictly sticking to certain staple exercises because of dogma rather than allowing for flexibility with training and individual preference is a ticket to burning out; it’s the reason so many gymbros have no legs, too - they equate any lower body training with squats rather than finding something that works for them long term.
I think there's a difference between "I don't do squats because I don't like em" and "I don't do squats because I can't do em". One is a valid opinion, one is almost certainly factually incorrect.
Full ROM and don’t chase numbers/ego/or BS make training stupid. ALSO full range builds knee strength to bullet proof… form - function not gruelling limits like this pro. Well described!!!
I love this video. Being able to back squat and perform the weightlifting movements gives so much bang for the buck for giraffes like us. Very much appreciate your open-minded and respectful discussion, and your points are not only correct but they are right.
I disagree with the video. What I agree with is the ending. A person should be interested in keeping their ability to squat. However, that is pretty detached from the rest of the video. Overall this felt like a dishonest take on a very reasonable position. The usual training advice is that you're supposed to squat and I feel that's the basis for all these seemingly upsetting takes on the squat. But they're right, you don't have to squat. It's a potentially great exercise but you really don't have to. It's a good idea to keep the movement pattern alive but that's different from basing your lower body workouts around it. Tried for years but the squat's not offering you the training effect you're hoping for? Drop it. Lower back/knee problems that get aggravated by the squat? Drop it. Feel like alternatives get you better results than the squat? Drop it. You can still keep the motion pattern alive. Do a bunch of goblet squats somewhere in your workout, that'll do. Also, Zack's kind of pulling a no true Scotsman here. Not feeling the squat? You're just not approaching it the right way. Still not working for you? Didn't do it correctly, try again. We might as well be talking about the bench press. Both the bench press and the back squat are exercises that belong to the "well you're just supposed to do them" -category. Guess what, you don't have to bench press either! But I guess that's not a controversial take because... we're just so obsessed with squat mobility?
The point of the video is to show another way to approach the squat for people struggling with it. Dropping everything that seems difficult or possibly problematic is not a good thing.
@@yotornadoyo There's never been a shortage of advice on how to squat or how to approach it. There's never been a shortage of encouragement to squat. Zack's take was overly simplistic (I know it was by design, doesn't make it good though) to the point that it's hardly going to help anyone and downright condescending to those who might've spent a lot of time and effort trying to get squats to work for them. They were just meant to go down and think about it differently? Fucking thanks, Zack.
@@krpi7685 He explains it very well. Instead of just having a bad squat and adding weight and hating squatting, focus on the aesthetics and get a good movement where you can sit at the bottom comfortably. Then the squat will change for you and become much more enjoyable.
Man this is like the best video on barbell back squats I’ve ever watched. I did 4 sets of 12 reps of ass to grass (not literally) squats after watching this video. 95lbs, I weight 149 lbs.
I can see an argument for very advanced bodybuilders, when heavy squats become so fatiguing and causing so much joint pain and risk of injury that they have to shift their focus to leg press, belt squat, single leg movements and such... but that's a really specialized bunch of guys who wanna train their quads brutally hard as isolated as possible. That's not most of us. I certainly think it's worth doing for most people.
i think part why most coaches try to stay away from prescribing backsquatting to their clients is because it has a learning curve. An absolute beginner(most of them) will take a while to master the movement well enough to squat their bodyweight. These days people want quick results. 4 week/8week/12 week transformations programs are way too common. I still scratch my head when someone says they are on an 8 week program by a coach. And when I look at their program I see a lot of volume on machines with barely any or at all the three basic movements; the squat, deadlift and bench. May be it is a safer bet when you are prescribing these to regular people who have barely any understanding of exercise science. As long as the clients lack commitment towards their goals, I guess we will see more of such programs and coaches spouting things approaching bs territory.
idc your leg day routine burn outs with 135 for dudes or 90 for chicks will make you grow. you dont need to squat 405 or 225 or whatever edit: make sure your squat rack has bar catches.
My legs are 100cm long and my torso 83cm long, safe to say I got some long legs for my height. Im not particularly good at squatting but I'm by no means bad. But I still squat! Its a foundational movemt pattern, I dont think anyone should train to be non functional as a human organism and squatting is part of that foundation for function. However bodybuilders often are activly fighting against function so they simply dont care if they can squat or not.
I think as long as youre squatting (any variation, eg barbell, hack, pendulum, SSB), you should be fine. Putting barbell back squat on pedestal over other squat variation though, thats the wrong thing. Just my two cents. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Surely it's not about the absolute length of the leg (as in, "tall person cannot squat") but the relative length of femur to lower leg? Plus an element of relative torso length? Those three factors plus hip, knee and ankle mobility determine where the centre of gravity falls and thus the stability of the move. When I started out with trainers who used the old "you can't push your knees beyond your toes" but also "you can't lean so far forward" I was perpetually toppling over backwards and no amount of strength could overcome bad geometry. Of course those two instructions paired were not the signs of a trainer with solid understanding of the movement... Only 5 minutes into the video so presumably these pointd get addressed later, just this was where Zack seemed to imply "tall people equals long femurs", whereas they may not have _relatively_ long femurs compared to their lower leg. Anyway, thanks Zack for all your really informative videos - I usually don't comment but I do appreciate them.
I tore my ankle ligaments multiple times on my left foot, it resulted in a very stiff ankle with a lot less mobility. My right knee can travel past my toes just fine, left foot just locks up at some point. This is hindering my squat a lot because I cant push knees forward as much as they need to. What could I do to work on this? Physiotherapist and work on ankle?
People saying that high barbell squats are the least benefitial or sensical movement in the gym are the worst of them all. I have found that Squats University guy is often low bar apologetic, even though he keeps reminding people to stretch and work on ankle mobility, i still see many videos of him explaining that not everyone is made to squat the same, but failing to remind that absolutely everyone can do a high bar squat if you open your hips and turn your knees enough, specially when we're talking about females lifting to 90 degrees and not taking advantage of their superior hip structure and more flexible ankles.
I really needed to see this. Not because I'm avoiding the back squat but because I'm currently learning it. I want to get good at it and while I've heard people with long femurs (I'm 6'2) can have problems with it I don't think I'm one. I can get into that position and free stand. My problem is my hips shooting up and I'm turning it into a squat morning. I know I'm doing this so I'm backing the weight off and practicing. I put weight on just to see what it feels like to have that on my back (it's not much but some). This video helped a LOT. Thank you!
I hate when goobers coat their horrible takes in 'muh suboptimal'. Never forget AthleanX tried to say 10x10 with 80% of your 1RM squat with 1 minute rest between sets was optimal.... for weightloss... for beginners.
Shane haller probably has femurs longer than Greg’s whole body and squatted over 900lbs. Chuck V had long femurs and broke many world records. Just gotta make it work for you.
I have bad leverages for the squat, im a very leggy individual. But I believed and still believe that it was extremely valuable. Lifters like you and GVS having similar proportions to me I've spent the last 8 months addressing limitations, learning how to squat, and just doing anything I can to really understand and benefit from the movement. It finally clicked recently and its insane how great the movement feels when finally getting it. Honestly, it was extremely gratifying getting it. I have to drop my weight tremendously to rebuild properly, but working at the squat until you get it is possible for anyone. Lots of my issues with my mobility were injury based and I was physically unable to squat for a long time. But it IS possible and this movement IS insane. I've never felt quad stimulation like this in my life. I dont know why coaches wouldn't want someone to take the time to learn how to squat right, but whatever. Glad you're pushing against the grain.
The same reason body builders don’t do deadlifts from the floor . The stimulus to fatigue is so bad . You can spend an hour trying to squat in a rack and feel it correctly , and get one movement in, Or you can bang jack squats , Lunges , extensions and hamstring curls all in the same time. Who is going to be more jacked , If your goal is to powerlift sure go head, but if the goal is growth there’s no reason to fight with this specific exercise
Respectfully, idk if you're understanding the spirit in which Eugene Teo, Greg Doucette, Athlean X, etc. make this claim that the barbell back squat is overrated. Usually all that influencers like this are doing is pushing back against the dogmatic attachment certain people have to the barbell back squat when it comes to quad hypertrophy--People who say "The back squat is the king of exercises" or "Hack squats and leg presses are for losers, just do back squats if you want big legs". The point of the anti-dogmatic message is not to suggest that people "throw out the back squat". It is to help people who are victims of this bullying from back squat purists alleviate their fear of trying other exercises that might better grow their quads. And it's important to reiterate that pretty much all of these influencers are speaking in the context of hypertrophy. If you were to ask any one of them "Should people who practice the sport of weightlifting throw out the barbell back squat just because they have long femurs?" They would almost certainly say no. If you asked them "Should everyone know how to squat with various load positions for the sake of general physical literacy/movement capacity/mobility?" They would almost certainly say yes.
Ben Yanes usually has interesting content and takes, but he does seem to prioritise 'shock' posts that will generate attention without giving the proper context of what he means. IF your goal is pure hypertrophy of your quads AND you have access to a fully equipped gym then sure, there are more optimal solutions than barbell back squats; but if your goal is to build squatting strength while still benefitting from solid hypertrophy, and that you only have a barbell, some weights and a rack, then back squats are very much applicable. Case in point, look at Clarence's legs ... 100% built by barbell squats x-)
So the takeaway is: find what setup (foot width, angle, etc) is comfortable for you by sitting at the bottom of a freestanding squat first, then use that setup for your barbell back squats?
Good God I just realized I have the same measurements as you... Longest femurs ever, 6'4, and same wingspan... Except im chonkier then u haha... I was doing what I have said many times just sit down there for 5 minutes a day... I finally got there 😁 and then heard a small pop in my left knee now I can't fully extend my knee... So disappointed, I was getting their so quickly and now I need to start from scratch again
Only in the squat you have to move while feeling the pressure of the weight on your ENTIRE body. No other exercise is like that. Our capability of holding all this weight, IMO, why when your squat goes, every other lift goes up. Everything becomes lighter in comparison.
I'm always put off trying mobility work with squats as someone with long femurs. It's all because of dorsiflexion as I can squat better with plates under my heels. I always just think that I would need a crazy amount more ankle mobility to squat ATG, I have tried mobility work for a few months a while back for 15 mins twice a week, but I always found I never really made any progress, I'd be more flexible on that workout but that would just reset every time. I'm wondering in hindsight if it's simply a case that you need to commit to improving mobility on a daily basis perhaps as much as you can and more aggressively - it needs to be uncomfortable. I guess I gotta just try, I can squat to parallel low bar but any deeper and it just ends up being my back going forward. Front squats I can't even do without two 5lb plates under each heel.
Why is it always the guys who can't squat who call it overrated hmm..
Or the guys too lazy cause they know it’s a tough lift to do and rather do leg press or the hack squat machine lol
If you think the hack squat is easy, it's because you train like a pussy. I do both back squats and hack squats in my program and nothing hurts more than an actual near failure set on the hack squat.
The only core exercise I might agree is not needed is the flat bench. I do not think you need a flat bench to build a good chest. You need a squatting motion to build good legs and the deadlift, although probably the riskiest, is excellent at building overall strength. Now he said “barbell squat” and to be fair there is a ton of plate loaded or weight stack squatting motions such as pendulum or hack.
Funny how that works.
exactly lmao
The squat is one of the 7 foundational human movement patterns. You don't need to be breaking world records, but you should be doing some variation if you want to be truly strong and capable.
"The squat is one of the 7 foundational human movement patterns" -exactly. Humans have been squatting since centuries.
Push,Pull,Hinge,Squat,Lunge, Run, Flex,Twist,Jump
@@patricklang7162 Squat, deadlift and overhead press are natural movements which humans perform in their daily lives.
@@tanOcotOeat raw liver and sun your balls
One of the biggest wake up calls you can give someone - do you want to helped on and off the toilet in your later life? No? Then you have to maintain a body weight squat minimum. A loaded barbell will also give you even better core strength to go with it.
I'm just doing squats because Mark Riptoe told me the make me harder to kill
😂
The lady watching here. I love squatting even though I was rubbish at it when I learnt the "old way", even though I've done yoga for 20 years and can sit comfortably in a super low body squat for ages. Your techniques make so much more sense and have helped me a lot. No stupid leg presses for me. Barbell all the way!
Depending on your goals front squats and hip hinges are better.
I don't think it really matters, tbh. Workouts don't need to be perfectly optimal. They can be *fun.*
I completed my first 3 sets of 225 for 5 reps yesterday. I know it’s not that much, but it’s a lot more than what I started out squatting. The barbell back squat has become one of my favourite movements now. 🏋🏽♂️
If you are doing it like this guy is doing it. That's a DAMN good weight. Don't let anyone yell you otherwise.
@@ChefofWar33same here i just started squatting in june and i cant do 225 yet at 6”5.. soon ill be able to tho …leggo 🚀
I did my first 3 reps of 225 today lol. Feels good, man.
Coaches who say this kind of crap about Squats are overrated ...etc. Those coaches are speaking to those athletes who want to have bigger legs in the main muscle groups AKA Bodybuilders. These people don't want to have a better posture, better weight distribution, or core strength while doing certain movements like the clean and snatch. They simply just want bigger legs.
But most of them don't specify that, rather intentionally I would assume, so they reach a bigger audience. I consider this rather misleading for beginners or recreational lifters (like myself), who can get much more out of their time in the gym than bigger legs, when doing squats.
@@jballs1879 I totally agree. In fact, if you check, most of those videos talk about “ what kill your gains, “ which is a very shallow concept.
Back squats are a great way to get bigger legs from a bodybuilding perspective, you just need to modify technique some in most cases. Platz squats are a great place to start.
If you're really strong and don't want as much systemic fatigue, you can pre-fatigue the quads with leg extensions.
The raw stimulus magnitude of a deep back squat with a controlled eccentric can't really be overstated. In my observation, it's a minority of people who perform them correctly for hypertrophy. People are too ego driven (want to horse weights at all times) and don't like doing squats in the hypertrophy range.
@@HashimAlmadani84 It's almost as if 99% of the online fitness space caters only to superficial bodybuilding crowd.
@@jballs1879he forgot to tell you, theres a difference between aesthetics body building bs vs high performance athletes including amateurs. Thats the big difference. Body building pussy can have big legs from doing leg press but can they do athletic stuff that a high performance athletes do? Mostly those aesthetics vanity bs cannot even run, swim to save their lives.
Heres me spending 20 min of my evening listening to zack explaining every little detail to me like i was a gym newbie, prentending like im actually deeply interested and still really freaking enjoying it! Damn your videos are awesome man. You really have such a talent for wxplaining those things, even to someone who already knows this. KEEP UP YOUR WORK. It seriously enriches my life and lifting experience. Much love from germany
thank you so much. this comment made my day
Second this, I really enjoy the sound logic behind your arguments. In general your videos are great refreshers and filled with awesome new knowledge or perspectives. I’m trying to become a weightlifting coach and your content is my blowing to me, the trip to japan was amazing, the visits to the gyms and conversations with the coaches. Top tier weightlifting content, also I’ve noticed how more random people at the gym are bringing up your videos and instagram account 🤙🏻
I FUCKING LOVE THIS VIDEO
More info like this is needed for the “long femur community”
For years I believed ankle mobility was the problem. Felt bad my squat didn’t look like others. FINALLY, I realized I was anatomically different than most people squatting around me. Learning about the femur length was a game changer.
lol, i've seen ppl with scoliosis lift double their weight
Any tips?
Imagine classifying tourself as long femur community cd
I'm 6'7" and I went through this journey back in 2008. I lifted with my university's powerlifting club (basically the only people that had access to proper weights) and was told the whole "you should keep your shins as vertical as possible, or at least not let the knees track beyond the toes" thing. No matter how much I tried, I could not go below parallel whilst trying to do that, and I'd end up with a ridiculously horizontal back trying (so basically I was good morninging my squats).
Then I started to think about it, I watched some weightlifters squatting (and I'll admit that, a bit like Clarence Kennedy said in your recent video, I just plain thought it looked more cool). I stumbled on an article on ExRx giving a bunch of stretches to improve squatting mobility and after a few months I was squatting hamstrings to calves with a relatively upright torso.
Not only did it feel better, not only was it more fun, but after a few months of doing it that way it overtook anything my old, above parallel powerlifting style squat had ever managed. It transformed squatting from an exercise that I hated and feared to one I always look forward to.
I'm sure that my build means I'll never squat as much as someone else of a similar weight to me who's built for squatting, but that's fine. I was never going to win any competitions anyway, and am happy to simply compete with myself.
What were the stretches? I still struggle to get that low without something that raises my heels
You’re the prime example of who supposedly “can’t squat” and yet you’re strong!
I'm 5'7 with long femurs and a bad dorsiflexion, and during years I thought I was just not built to do backsquats. Now, using the zercher as a first approach (as it is less limitating mobility-wise) and the 5 minute squat routine from Zack, I can backsquat with a nice technique, front squat and do olympic weightlifting. And it is a good circle: now I feel strong and never had such mobility. It feels so great.
I PR'ed just today and hope I'll be able to squat more in the future!
Congrats on the PR!
@@adamtschmidt4303 Thanks mate!
The phrase which comes to my mind is ‘physical literacy’. Knowing your squat inside out through various stances, tempos, type of squat etc contributions greatly to your understanding of your own body and mechanics. I think approaching the squat with a white belt mentality for 10 years plus is some of the best training you can do.
Hey dude, as someone with a degree in sports science and one in osteopathy I completely agree with you. From both an athletic and a health perspective, achieving a deep squat is very desirable.
I'm 6'3" and do weightlifting. I love your channel, great content!
Writing this comment from a deep squat.
There’s no incenteic reason it has to be a barbell back squat . You can lunge , hack squat , split squat , etc
@@ci6516 cope
I feel you Zach! I'm 6'3" with a 6'8" wingspan. Very long femurs, my wife is 5'2" and when we sit at a table we are eye level lol! I just started taking legs very seriously and fell in love with the squat. Past four months went from 255 1RM to 365 1RM! It took a lot of ankle and hip mobility and finding my proper foot placement. I take so much pride in my form that people come up to me and ask advice all the time at my Crunch gym. Thanks for your content, it has helped tremendously.
I started by just doing pause squats, with just 135 and going and sitting in the bottom for about as long as I could stand it, and then exploding upwards as fast as possible. To me, this is WAY more engaging than just doing the typical slow eccentric/concentric squatting movement. Plus, you can only do long pause squats with much less than your 1RM, so it's near impossible to get "stuck" anywhere...unless you stay in the bottom position for like 5 minutes lol
Same although I just started again with less weight than that even. Old Clarence was my inspiration
While I completely agree with Zack there are some things I would add to his statements:
1. Having long femur is not the problem exactly, but the proportion of a long femur with sorther tibia. (IT CAN ALSO BE FIXED WITH PRACTICE AND MOBILITY EXERCICES SHOWED IN THIS VIDEO)
2. Zack has the longest femurs you can find in a gym, but the relation femur/tibia looks like a 1:1 because he also has long ass tibias.
No intent to hate with this coment, It's just my physiotherapist/personal trainer picky personality.
And before people jump on me, all my clients learn to do high bar back squats and most of them get really good at it!
Keep up with the work Zack, I love your videos!
Athlean-X (Jeff) has only uploaded 7 leg related workout videos in his last 115 uploads. He covers his legs up with pants and has never worn shorts. That says it all right there - don't listen to anything he says. He's a shirtless 6-pack abs and biceps clickbait chaser for youtube views.
90% of issues with squats is a stiff ankle, not enough dorsiflexion...or upper body too tight and person isn't cleared to actually hold a bar on back (you fail the wall arm slide test)
For the average person, aka 90% of people, nothing beats the squat for leg development.
And MOST, if not all, of these coaches throwing shade on squats, built the bulk of their leg mass with it.
First off: I like back squats and I like the message that anyone COULD back squat. .
But I've also come to realize that there are very valuable alternatives for people who don't want to or "can't" back squat. And videos like these make it seem like heavy back squats are somehow mandatory. If you're not a weightlifter or powerlifter, they are not necessary, but just another option.
I've been considering dropping the barbell back squat all together because its by far my worst lift and I am not built for it but this video has inspired me to approach it in a different way. thank you for the inspiration.
I am 6ft 4 as well and mostly leg. I started out in HS doing back squats with foot ball where were taught nothing and had a bad time doing them. I had that same reasoning that it wasn’t for me and just tried to use leg machines to get strong. It didn’t work and I went back to squats.
The purpose of strength training isn’t too “build muscle” that’s just a form of reasoning to excuse your self from learning new movements and giving hard effort. The purpose of strength training is to load normal human movement patterns in progressive way.
As side effect muscles are built bigger and performance in life and sports improve.
Another big thing is you have to learn something you’ve never done. In squatting my two biggest places I learned form was from Starting Strength and Zack both have changed my training immeasurably. Learning that science and every picky little detail from SS and then learning to just sit in a deep squat from Zack has improved my mobility, strength, and performance by leaps and bounds.
When did Jeff Cavaliere have this take?? He has repeatedly said, as far as I can recall, that the squat is one of the best exercises you can do to develop the entirety of the lumbo-pelvic-hip complex. Since when did he say it was overrated or overhyped?
Jeff probably mentioned not doing them after major injury or if youre starting out from zero fitness and this guy turned it into clickbait
@@plaidchuck pretty sure Zack wouldn't clickbait that. Jeff might've misspoke in one video or maybe he was just misheard.
Bro idk bout this one. Feel like both sides are trying to talk in absolutes. “Squats are overrated” vs “squats are perfect, you just suck at em”. Dude c’mon, people just wanna workout and be healthy, everyone on a different stage of their fitness journey. If they don’t wanna squat cause they don’t like the movement pattern and don’t feel like putting in the work, then so be in. My back is jacked up from the years of playing rugby all my life, and from doing BJJ. I can’t handle the compression from back squats anymore. For legs I’m stuck with KB goblet squats, split squats, hiking and bike sprints on my concept 2. But I guess I’m a big lazy puss boy cause I don’t wanna hit barbell squats anymore? All this is just nuance.
I feel the point of the video is to educate people in proper squat technique. As guys who are arguing against squats, teach the squat wrong. These days peoples squat form is solid, but i see maybe 50% of people taking traditional/powerlifter squat cues and are either quarter squatting or have unathletic looking parallel squats. Of course there are outliers such as yourself and greg doucette who have hip/back issues. But there shouldnt be an excuse for anyone else to perform a basic human movement.
Zack.
My main COMPLAINT about this video and i'm pretty sure coach Greg has pointed it out before is that the squat is sport specific. Bodybuilding coaches like Greg Doucette primarily focus on bodybuilding techniques, which may not always align with powerlifting or weightlifting practices. As someone who has been working on addressing buttwink for quite some time, I have found machines to be superior for my needs and that of teenagers (Greg's main audience). They are beginner-friendly, safer, and require fewer stabilizers, enabling me to focus on the mind-muscle connection. Additionally, I've noticed that squats have contributed to an undesirable increase in my waist size.
I agree with you that kinesthetic awareness and proprioception are vital for proper squat technique. However, I think these aspects can be challenging for an online coach to teach effectively, especially to a large audience of teenagers who might not have sufficient experience or guidance. Safety is paramount, and improper squatting technique could lead to injuries if not properly addressed(if you're lifting self-taught, which almost all bodybuilding teenagers do)
My argument is that while the squat may be enjoyable and beneficial for you, it might not be equally beneficial for everyone, particularly in sports or activities where it is not a primary requirement. For instance, for bodybuilders or those focusing on aesthetics, other exercises and techniques may be more suitable and yield better results.
This video to me seems like you just want everyone to squat because YOU think it's cool. This video seems incredibly bias and I still don't understand why EVERYONE needs to learn the squat. I love the squat but you really don't need it.
With all due respect, the people with qualifications in biometrics that say squats aren’t a good exercise for people with long femurs are correct, you are not. You don’t have long femurs in RELATION TO YOUR TORSO. When you are in the bottom squat position, I can see your shoulders protrude past your knees - your knees look like they could comfortably tuck into your armpits. When I am in that position, my knees protrude past my shoulders because my femurs are long in relation to my torso. It’s even more obvious when I am in a class and we all do child’s post - everyone else’s knees sit at or behind their armpits, my knees are slightly past the top of my shoulders. When back squatting, your femurs essentially put your butt so far back and your torso has to be long enough to lean forward to bring the bar back over the middle of your foot. My torso is to short to achieve that thus the weight of the bar sits behind my heel. To make it worse I’m female so have more weight in the hips/butt than a man so there is even more weight distributed behind my heels. All the weight sitting behind your heels literally pulls me backwards off balance.
I have worked with an osteopath (ie expert in biomechanics) who specialises in correcting movement patterns and even with him increasing my ranges of motion, etc, we concluded squats aren’t a good exercise for me. Goblet squats are doable but am limited by how much weight I can hold in my hands, I can scrape by with back squats with a wider stance and toes out but still struggle with those (ie cannot achieve “good form”.
You're absolutely right, it not about femur length but it's the relation to the torso. As a 5'10" male with crazy long femurs and short torso who lifts for almost 7 years but still struggles to squat 225 for a few clean reps despite having great ankle mobility, done basically everything but my squat hasn't improved, it's a shame because my deadlift 1rm is 515bs and I can bench 300 pounds any day.
never did any squats, ever. Squats always cause injuries and DESTROY your body. I always used leg press and hack squat machines. But I did more isolation work and spinning. I could leg press 700 lbs at 120lbs bodyweight in high school and ran a 45.3 400m in college.
Anyone who is anti squat, just has a weak squat lol. Squatting is fundamental in a lot of strongman movements(picks, loads, stones, etc).
"Pick movements that suit your anatomy and motion capabilities." should read, "pick movements that CHALLENGE your anatomy and motion capabilities." If I'm coaching someone and they are having trouble with one of the foundational movements, guess what we're going to do more of? That fucking movement! Why? Because we're virtually guaranteed to get more of a training stimulus from a challenging movement than a movement which we are inherently more comfortable with. I've had Parkinson's for 10 fucking years now and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to train with the intensity that's been so therapeutic for me over the past decade, but I can tell you this for sure, the barbell back squat will be the LAST movement that I cut from my training.
I was the gym bro doing 405 lbs + partial squats like you did in the beginning. I finally decided to actually do them correctly in full range of motion and had to back all the way down to 135 lbs. Couple years later, I just hit 430 lbs last week for a single. One of the best things i've done was deciding to find a way to get into that bottom position and then just stand up. Great video and educational information that will hopefully help many people!!
BUUTTTT ZACK the back squat is obviously bad because you're not squatting 600lbs for reps!!
I have really long femurs (I'm 6'2") and absolutely love back squatting. I started doing them 13 years ago when I started weightlifting and they have never given me issues. No excuses
everyone can squat. its a basic movement pattern like walking or carrying something. unless youre disabled, you shoukd be able to train the squat too, and the barbell back squat is one of the best ways if not the best way to train that movement pattern
24.8.14
Saying backsquats are overrated or dangerous completely ignores the fact that the back squat is one of the most basic fundamental human movements, and until western culture decided that chairs were more comfy then the floor the basic resting position was the bottom squat. Before we took a dump in a toilet the bottom squat was our shitting position. there's a reason you see literally every toddler just chill in a bottom squat, and it's cause it is a primal human position. The fact that people can't back squat isn't because of the movement but because they lack the mobility.
I think squatting is overrated, especially in weightlifting for amateurs. So much of the weightlifting world is just smashing kids with squats and the ones who respond well to that become champions, and the ones who don't, well they quit or got cut when they didn't perform as well as the others so we never hear about them. And that idea of constant squatting and basically nothing else filters down to the amateur level. But many of us are of the caliber that quit or got cut, still trying to squat as if we aren't, and wondering why all this squatting isn't doing much for us beyond injury.
I trained weightlifting for many years trying every damn method of squatting there is and mostly just accumulated every damn squat related pain there is and never really gained much strength before another injury knocked me back to square one. It wasn't til I started training in a commercial gym and doing more in the way of basic leg extensions and lunges etc that my knee pain stopped and squatting became not entirely damaging.
But even still, I can struggle to have any kind of productive squat session, then casually bench the same weight for more reps, because it's just so much easier on my body. And that's absurd because I'm a weightlifter and I've never put any thought into training the bench. I'm probably the worst squatter of all time in terms of time and effort invested to results achieved. So I gave up on traditional squat training and my squatting these days is more along the lines of getting a minimal effective dose of loading and skill at the squat, then bulking out my leg strength with other exercises. I'm a lot healthier and happier for it.
for bodybuilding it is really highly overrated! of course you need to be able to do it (bring the requirede mobility to be healthy people) and also in terms of strength building and general coordination, so you should do it from time to time. But in terms of muscle building itself, it is waisted time... no matter if front or back squat or whatever. the breaking point is, you will always fail because of technique which will break at some point. Either you cannot breathe it anymore and therefore your core tension will gone, too dangerous for lower back, which is the point in most of cases. Or your overall technique will break, knees fall in etc. - there is always one week point. But it never will be the quad itself. heavy set of 10 reps at RPE 9 is only a RPE 5 for the quads. But when doing leg press, hack squat or whatever, you dont have that techniqure problem, meaning you can press until you really kill your quads. I have training for years only with squats, legs were always to small. now I've built my own leg press, and legs are really growing from now on. Squats are only important for powerlifters/wheightlifeters to build there strenght, but I would also recommend them doing a press variaton, it will build up more muscle mass which will also results in stronger squats (I am powerlifter, this is my personal experience)
Long femur/ short torso guy. I've been squatting low bar for 7 years with back pain until i had enough of it and decided not to squat anymore. Then I saw Clarence Kennedys deep squat and decided to try it out. It took me 4-5 training sessions to find position that feels comfortable, and now it's my favorite movement in the gym. Zero pain.
6'7 almost 2/3 of my body is lower body. Squat atg no problem. Ppl just coping
They are just trying to find any scientific excuse not to squat💀
Loved the leg press machine.
Couldnt squat because of lower back pain.
My trainer told me i had lower back pain because I didnt squat...
Started to squat - back pain gone. He was right!
Ben Yanes is a DYEL who also gives terrible advice 😂 (I'm a physio who doesnt treat the body like its made of glass.)
Your points didn't invalidate or really contradict the points made by the other coaches. The one point I think you did make well is the self-assessment that squats aren't right for an individual lifter. A trained eye/coach should assess the suitability of any exercise for a lifter, and that could change over time.
When I started squatting for the first time ever at the age of 24, I was probably the worst squatter in the world. Not even close to getting parallel. That's when I realised just how bad my mobility actually is and I was determined to improve. Now I've done 170kg deep squats, and I can tell you that no other exercise has brought as much improvement into my life as much as the squat has. Everything started to just feel better and easier once I started squatting deep.
And to add: I too have a very short torso and extremely long legs for my height.
@@pronxon I have a short torso, short arms & long legs, squat & bench press feel amazing but my God deadlifts are a pain 😂
Also the fact Zack used himself as the baseline for people with long femurs isn't fair or accurate. One person cannot be used to define thousands or even millions of people. It's an anecdotal example.
AthleanX literally put the squat at a top for quad development calling it the best for overall leg growth. Saying that he call the squat overrated is wrong
As someone who has a stupidly bad femur to torso ratio, ATG squats are one of my favourite exercises I use lifting shoes to help keep an upright torso, but there’s nothing better for overall leg development than ATG squats, regardless of your leverages. 1:30 1:30
people just don't get that, over time any kind of anatomy adapts to any kind of movement over time. And there are insane benefits to that. Also the longer the femur - the more time to ascend - which means more time under tension translating to higher muscle mass!
@@arulkumaran4674 Correct. Whilst my 1RM low bar is only 315 (ATG and beltless), my legs are waaaay bigger than when I used to do powerlifting depth using a belt and was hitting 385-395lbs consistently.
"You're not special, squat" shirts incoming??
i went from skipping leg day (90% of the time) for years to 100% olympic lifting. the ONLY leg specific movement i did was back and front squats (maybe 80% back and 20% front). my legs grew substantially in those 5 years. i did ZERO additional leg specific exersizes. now that i got back in to bodybuilding, i think my legs are my best attribute.
Between the high bar and low bar back squat, you should be able to find one that works for you. I cannot do a high bar squat or front squat without seriously fucking up my back, however the low bar squat doesn't give me back pain at all.
Really interesting vid. Your take here is kinda close to Rippetoe's, "yah there are guys with their bullshit degrees, but if you're new then you don't know anything yet, so just shut up and do your fives."
At this point Clarence is the poster boy for squatting 😂😂
Your squat routine got me from falling with a 15 lb snatch to a 120 lb snatch in 6 months. I'm a first yr crossfit, never used weights. 5'3" and all your advice still helped all my lifts
Bro thats called beginner gains xd what are you talking about
@@daniel1RM it wasn't that the weight wasn't coming up. I couldn't balance at the bottom. After the 5 minute squat I was able to balance the weight at the bottom and keep better form. It was never a strength issue. I had a mobility issue. Now I can lift a more appropriate weight for me because I don't have a mobility limitation
Squat is a great exercise.
Honestly, I have more beef with the deadlift exercise because that's what caused me some small issues with my back. But squats are fantastic.
And I play volleyball and hike lots. Definitely can see that power transfer.
I'm 2 inches taller than Zack and have longer femurs and I love squatting, it's honeslty easier and more fun than doing like 5 different leg accessories, and helps with the sports I did and currently do. No reason not to squat for 95% of people who lift.
Unrelated but you reminded me that I want to rewatch Azumanga. Thanks.
Im 37. Squatted from 14 to 34.
Ever since I stopped and focused on pendulum squats, hacks and leg presses my legs exploded.
If you're a bodyduilder don't let anyone tell you you have to do a specific exercise. Do what makes you grow.
I love the deep squat but help, my right knee is constantly numb and hurts a little. But I keep squatting which makes it feel worse every time, I want to heal but I want to squat better so I am not hurting my knee. Im only squatting 155-185 lbs so it shouldnt be this rough on my joints right?
Go to an orthopedist and diagnose the problem, no one will guess what is your problem, that's what doctors are from .
It is possible that your technique is bad, but there is also a chance that you are doing everything perfectly, but there is a problem with the knee X-ray or MRI will give the answer.
Well put Zack- when I started weightlifting, I was very tempted to say "I suck at these movements because of my anatomy" - Nope, just needed practice, better technique, and improved mobility for full range of motion... it's easy to latch on to a fitness content creator saying the same thing and use it as a cop out or excuse to quit.
Did Eoin dirty with the 5'6 lol he said he was 5'9
Bruh fr. 5’6 at 100kg bw is a thiccc boy😂
Lol the 5'6 Eoin meme
I’m too early
🥈
If sb is afraid of "classic back squat" (no help etc) - then do front squat, smith machine back squat or 1 leg (pistol) squats + weights
nice---lg from a 2 meter lifter from Austria
I actually respect all these coaches and follow their advices. I don't do back squat.
I front squat
The easiest thing in the world to do is to find an excuse to NOT do something.
Zack is 100% correct on this topic based on my own experience. I’m just over 6’6” and didn’t start squatting atg until i was 40 years old. I had to start from scratch and greatly improve my mobility but it’s totally possible with the right knowledge and progressions
I'm 6'7" and since taking time off from lifting in the pandemic have had a really hard time squatting without beating my joints up. Tried this methodology yesterday (found a solid bottom position holding a post then worked up to a paused single) and today is the best my joints have felt in years. This video is solid gold
Folks are looking for an easy way; strength doesn't come easy tho, demands learning and understanding you body; thank you brother for doing what you do. I hope you read this.
I've always said that if there's only one movement I could do, it would be some variation of a squat. There's so many benefits to it, especially when it comes to other sports/cross training or life in general.
Crazy how, this day and age, we have coaches, pts, dr, chiro etc... antagonize basic movements pattern... they should all be penalized for causing kinesiophobia.
Great vid!
Learning ATG squat changed my life. Really. It sounds ridiculous when I say it, but it was the perfect exercise that opened a gateway into doing so much more in the gym. And when you go to the gym alot because its finally rewarding your life revolves around it. It takes that little tweak, to change everything in your workout. I stand by the ATG squat.
I'm 5'11. I'm not tall but above average height. I tried High bar squatting but I kept getting tingles in my arms. By switching to low bar. I feel more control in the moving of weight. I had a problem. I fixed it. No Excuses. Just improve.
I coach them with goblet squats, kb 2 box sumo squats then max rom zercher squats and then barbell squats if still mobility not there ATG split squats, 1 leg max rom vertical leg press, 1 leg box deep step downs and the back squat becomes easy takes good 6 months for beginner with very poor mobility & 0 awareness. Had 6'5 tennis player with super long femurs ATG squats no problemo in a matter of 4 months at age 35yo who have never squated before. We need 7' guy to dismiss this propaganda theory ATG BB Back Squats not for everyone.
Disregarding the squat is something a lazy person does.
The best exercise is the one you like doing. If you hate squats dont do them. If you love bulgarian splits do them. Idk, for most lifters its about feeling and enjoying it. I for example dont do squats because i just dont like how they feel and how to set them up - my legs are still big, dont worry; i do bulgarians instead and some other isolation exercises.
Based.
Lazy huh, do some squats. Squats good for legs, and good for brain, good for willpower. Ranius125 need squat. Look at child. Child squat all time.
I have many jokes I want to make, but in seriousness, this is the way. I get Zack’s perspective, esp. coming from a strength sport, but the vast majority of people in gyms are never going to compete in their lives, so strictly sticking to certain staple exercises because of dogma rather than allowing for flexibility with training and individual preference is a ticket to burning out; it’s the reason so many gymbros have no legs, too - they equate any lower body training with squats rather than finding something that works for them long term.
I think there's a difference between "I don't do squats because I don't like em" and "I don't do squats because I can't do em". One is a valid opinion, one is almost certainly factually incorrect.
This is my philosophy, but it just so happens that my favourite exercise is squatting high bar atg.
Full ROM and don’t chase numbers/ego/or BS make training stupid. ALSO full range builds knee strength to bullet proof… form - function not gruelling limits like this pro.
Well described!!!
The Barbell Back Squat is highly UNDERRATTED if anything. Thank you for doing this video!
I love this video. Being able to back squat and perform the weightlifting movements gives so much bang for the buck for giraffes like us. Very much appreciate your open-minded and respectful discussion, and your points are not only correct but they are right.
I disagree with the video.
What I agree with is the ending. A person should be interested in keeping their ability to squat. However, that is pretty detached from the rest of the video.
Overall this felt like a dishonest take on a very reasonable position. The usual training advice is that you're supposed to squat and I feel that's the basis for all these seemingly upsetting takes on the squat. But they're right, you don't have to squat. It's a potentially great exercise but you really don't have to. It's a good idea to keep the movement pattern alive but that's different from basing your lower body workouts around it.
Tried for years but the squat's not offering you the training effect you're hoping for? Drop it. Lower back/knee problems that get aggravated by the squat? Drop it. Feel like alternatives get you better results than the squat? Drop it.
You can still keep the motion pattern alive. Do a bunch of goblet squats somewhere in your workout, that'll do.
Also, Zack's kind of pulling a no true Scotsman here. Not feeling the squat? You're just not approaching it the right way. Still not working for you? Didn't do it correctly, try again.
We might as well be talking about the bench press. Both the bench press and the back squat are exercises that belong to the "well you're just supposed to do them" -category.
Guess what, you don't have to bench press either! But I guess that's not a controversial take because... we're just so obsessed with squat mobility?
The point of the video is to show another way to approach the squat for people struggling with it.
Dropping everything that seems difficult or possibly problematic is not a good thing.
@@yotornadoyo There's never been a shortage of advice on how to squat or how to approach it. There's never been a shortage of encouragement to squat.
Zack's take was overly simplistic (I know it was by design, doesn't make it good though) to the point that it's hardly going to help anyone and downright condescending to those who might've spent a lot of time and effort trying to get squats to work for them.
They were just meant to go down and think about it differently? Fucking thanks, Zack.
@@krpi7685 He explains it very well. Instead of just having a bad squat and adding weight and hating squatting, focus on the aesthetics and get a good movement where you can sit at the bottom comfortably. Then the squat will change for you and become much more enjoyable.
Man this is like the best video on barbell back squats I’ve ever watched. I did 4 sets of 12 reps of ass to grass (not literally) squats after watching this video. 95lbs, I weight 149 lbs.
I can see an argument for very advanced bodybuilders, when heavy squats become so fatiguing and causing so much joint pain and risk of injury that they have to shift their focus to leg press, belt squat, single leg movements and such... but that's a really specialized bunch of guys who wanna train their quads brutally hard as isolated as possible. That's not most of us. I certainly think it's worth doing for most people.
the squat is goated
i think part why most coaches try to stay away from prescribing backsquatting to their clients is because it has a learning curve. An absolute beginner(most of them) will take a while to master the movement well enough to squat their bodyweight. These days people want quick results. 4 week/8week/12 week transformations programs are way too common. I still scratch my head when someone says they are on an 8 week program by a coach. And when I look at their program I see a lot of volume on machines with barely any or at all the three basic movements; the squat, deadlift and bench. May be it is a safer bet when you are prescribing these to regular people who have barely any understanding of exercise science. As long as the clients lack commitment towards their goals, I guess we will see more of such programs and coaches spouting things approaching bs territory.
idc your leg day routine burn outs with 135 for dudes or 90 for chicks will make you grow. you dont need to squat 405 or 225 or whatever edit: make sure your squat rack has bar catches.
My legs are 100cm long and my torso 83cm long, safe to say I got some long legs for my height. Im not particularly good at squatting but I'm by no means bad. But I still squat! Its a foundational movemt pattern, I dont think anyone should train to be non functional as a human organism and squatting is part of that foundation for function.
However bodybuilders often are activly fighting against function so they simply dont care if they can squat or not.
How is your last name pronounced? TEE-lander, TELL-inder, or teh-LANDer? Or none of the above
I think as long as youre squatting (any variation, eg barbell, hack, pendulum, SSB), you should be fine.
Putting barbell back squat on pedestal over other squat variation though, thats the wrong thing. Just my two cents. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Surely it's not about the absolute length of the leg (as in, "tall person cannot squat") but the relative length of femur to lower leg? Plus an element of relative torso length?
Those three factors plus hip, knee and ankle mobility determine where the centre of gravity falls and thus the stability of the move.
When I started out with trainers who used the old "you can't push your knees beyond your toes" but also "you can't lean so far forward" I was perpetually toppling over backwards and no amount of strength could overcome bad geometry.
Of course those two instructions paired were not the signs of a trainer with solid understanding of the movement...
Only 5 minutes into the video so presumably these pointd get addressed later, just this was where Zack seemed to imply "tall people equals long femurs", whereas they may not have _relatively_ long femurs compared to their lower leg.
Anyway, thanks Zack for all your really informative videos - I usually don't comment but I do appreciate them.
Really nice video here
I tore my ankle ligaments multiple times on my left foot, it resulted in a very stiff ankle with a lot less mobility. My right knee can travel past my toes just fine, left foot just locks up at some point. This is hindering my squat a lot because I cant push knees forward as much as they need to. What could I do to work on this? Physiotherapist and work on ankle?
People saying that high barbell squats are the least benefitial or sensical movement in the gym are the worst of them all.
I have found that Squats University guy is often low bar apologetic, even though he keeps reminding people to stretch and work on ankle mobility, i still see many videos of him explaining that not everyone is made to squat the same, but failing to remind that absolutely everyone can do a high bar squat if you open your hips and turn your knees enough, specially when we're talking about females lifting to 90 degrees and not taking advantage of their superior hip structure and more flexible ankles.
I really needed to see this. Not because I'm avoiding the back squat but because I'm currently learning it. I want to get good at it and while I've heard people with long femurs (I'm 6'2) can have problems with it I don't think I'm one. I can get into that position and free stand.
My problem is my hips shooting up and I'm turning it into a squat morning. I know I'm doing this so I'm backing the weight off and practicing. I put weight on just to see what it feels like to have that on my back (it's not much but some).
This video helped a LOT.
Thank you!
I hate when goobers coat their horrible takes in 'muh suboptimal'.
Never forget AthleanX tried to say 10x10 with 80% of your 1RM squat with 1 minute rest between sets was optimal.... for weightloss... for beginners.
Anyone who says backsquats are overrated is essentially saying "getting up is overrated".
Avoid barbell back squat.
Too much vertebrae compression.
Belt squats only.
Shane haller probably has femurs longer than Greg’s whole body and squatted over 900lbs. Chuck V had long femurs and broke many world records. Just gotta make it work for you.
I have bad leverages for the squat, im a very leggy individual. But I believed and still believe that it was extremely valuable. Lifters like you and GVS having similar proportions to me I've spent the last 8 months addressing limitations, learning how to squat, and just doing anything I can to really understand and benefit from the movement. It finally clicked recently and its insane how great the movement feels when finally getting it. Honestly, it was extremely gratifying getting it. I have to drop my weight tremendously to rebuild properly, but working at the squat until you get it is possible for anyone. Lots of my issues with my mobility were injury based and I was physically unable to squat for a long time. But it IS possible and this movement IS insane. I've never felt quad stimulation like this in my life. I dont know why coaches wouldn't want someone to take the time to learn how to squat right, but whatever. Glad you're pushing against the grain.
The same reason body builders don’t do deadlifts from the floor . The stimulus to fatigue is so bad .
You can spend an hour trying to squat in a rack and feel it correctly , and get one movement in,
Or you can bang jack squats , Lunges , extensions and hamstring curls all in the same time.
Who is going to be more jacked ,
If your goal is to powerlift sure go head, but if the goal is growth there’s no reason to fight with this specific exercise
Respectfully, idk if you're understanding the spirit in which Eugene Teo, Greg Doucette, Athlean X, etc. make this claim that the barbell back squat is overrated. Usually all that influencers like this are doing is pushing back against the dogmatic attachment certain people have to the barbell back squat when it comes to quad hypertrophy--People who say "The back squat is the king of exercises" or "Hack squats and leg presses are for losers, just do back squats if you want big legs". The point of the anti-dogmatic message is not to suggest that people "throw out the back squat". It is to help people who are victims of this bullying from back squat purists alleviate their fear of trying other exercises that might better grow their quads. And it's important to reiterate that pretty much all of these influencers are speaking in the context of hypertrophy. If you were to ask any one of them "Should people who practice the sport of weightlifting throw out the barbell back squat just because they have long femurs?" They would almost certainly say no. If you asked them "Should everyone know how to squat with various load positions for the sake of general physical literacy/movement capacity/mobility?" They would almost certainly say yes.
Ben Yanes usually has interesting content and takes, but he does seem to prioritise 'shock' posts that will generate attention without giving the proper context of what he means.
IF your goal is pure hypertrophy of your quads AND you have access to a fully equipped gym then sure, there are more optimal solutions than barbell back squats; but if your goal is to build squatting strength while still benefitting from solid hypertrophy, and that you only have a barbell, some weights and a rack, then back squats are very much applicable.
Case in point, look at Clarence's legs ... 100% built by barbell squats x-)
So the takeaway is: find what setup (foot width, angle, etc) is comfortable for you by sitting at the bottom of a freestanding squat first, then use that setup for your barbell back squats?
Good God I just realized I have the same measurements as you... Longest femurs ever, 6'4, and same wingspan... Except im chonkier then u haha... I was doing what I have said many times just sit down there for 5 minutes a day... I finally got there 😁 and then heard a small pop in my left knee now I can't fully extend my knee... So disappointed, I was getting their so quickly and now I need to start from scratch again
Only in the squat you have to move while feeling the pressure of the weight on your ENTIRE body. No other exercise is like that. Our capability of holding all this weight, IMO, why when your squat goes, every other lift goes up. Everything becomes lighter in comparison.
I'm always put off trying mobility work with squats as someone with long femurs. It's all because of dorsiflexion as I can squat better with plates under my heels. I always just think that I would need a crazy amount more ankle mobility to squat ATG, I have tried mobility work for a few months a while back for 15 mins twice a week, but I always found I never really made any progress, I'd be more flexible on that workout but that would just reset every time.
I'm wondering in hindsight if it's simply a case that you need to commit to improving mobility on a daily basis perhaps as much as you can and more aggressively - it needs to be uncomfortable. I guess I gotta just try, I can squat to parallel low bar but any deeper and it just ends up being my back going forward. Front squats I can't even do without two 5lb plates under each heel.