THE PENUEL SHOW WITH TEBOGO KEEBINE & SIZWE DUMA 00:00 - INTRO 04:30 - Thoughts on African Cultural practices 08:45 - Scrapping Lobola 10:45 - Lack of morality amongst us 16:05 - Concept of CODESA 2.0 18:55 - The history of Lobola 28:45 - Making Lobola better 32:45 - The Issue of Surnames 40:04 - Finding our cultural identity 42:35 - Upholding traditional cultural practices 49:50 - Lobola amongst homosexual relationships 53:50 - How money holds power in families 56:45 - How we misconstrue cultural/religious practices 1:01:35 - Types of marriages in South Africa 1:09:15 - Is there a need for marriage today 1:12:50 - The measure of adulthood 1:16:35 - What is Inhlawulo “Damaged” 1:23:40 - Inhlawulo as a penalty system 1:33:15 - Rectifying the way we practice culture 1:39:30 - The issue of modernity 1:42:55 - Lessons from Muslim community 1:47:15 - Intentional parenting 1:49:00 - When should young people have sex & kids 1:59:40 - Importance of sex education 2:06:05 - Closing comments 2:05:39 - ENDS Compiled by Khwezi Ndlovu IG: kzndlovu
Sho grootman pen please start recording more than once a week cause you record once and sometimes the guests you even have are not interesting to some of us so even if you can have one like this with you and the crew one with yourself and one with a guest every week perfect
Bro i've wanting to say that. Its a lifestyle being here on Mondays. But sometimes they bring a not interesting guest..now we have to wait for next Monday..to be surprised with a boring guest again😅.💔@@LivhuWaniWisdom
iLobolo should focus on: - BRINGING FAMILIES TOGETHER - AGREEING ON CULTURAL UNITY - HELPING THE COUPLE BUILD A FAMILY - CONFLICT RESOLUTION... ...if the focus is money... you've lost the whole thing.
Agreed, Sir! Especially on the question of family and cultural unity. But you guys should be careful not to "Carelessly denigrate [our African Matriarchal] institutions." I believe you are intelligent enough to know that that is chaotic! So instead of going around saying, "Lobolo must be scratched/canceled," why don't we, serious and conscious Africans, meditate on things as deep and serious as this and see if we can't put our heads together and right the wrongs that are apparent in such very vital African institution(s). i.e., Lobolo.
Lobola should be reprocipical period but today its one sided, and only virgins should qualify for ilobola but these days girls loose their virginity kwa grade 10 its miserable and sad
The nerve of saying it M U S T . If you don’t want to pay Lobola and your girlfreind does not mind (including her family) the kudos to you. But leave us who like paying for lobola out of it. Men have the money to buy alcohol daily and normally never do anything constructive with their money but want to scrap out ilobola which is part of our tradition.. You wanna have 4 to 5 wives that you can’t afford. Let me thule
As a young gent i understood when one man said "*impregnate the land first before you can impregnate the women*", in this simple context we must understand that we are not supposed to have unprotected sex before we can even fix our financial circumstances, and before we even fix ours we must firstly fix our home situations, this is to make sure when the lady comes in the land of Kwa Lumbela she is coming in a better condition or (Advance circumstances), this becomes a clear example to the other family that you are indeed able to take care of their daughter. This act prevents mamazala drama and other unwanted finical fight in the family. Sex education, must be taught in a different way in schools, because now its a hobby (hareyeng ke Game). Sex must be a privilege not an age privilege but an achievement privilege to young men, example at a certain point you get a purple card that acts as a black card but it gives u access to certain area in the society which u can be romantic and romanticize with women. Therefore most Gents will focus more on getting the bag and accomplish other thing's in life. Thanks and i stand to be corrected on my views.
Happy Monday all. The most important takeout from this episode must be to focus on the PRINCIPLES and not surface level. Whether ilobolo or inhlawulo... what is the PRINCIPLE behind what you're doing? Once you move away from the principle, you destroy the culture. If principles change... then change the customs accordingly. A culture that impoverishes or exploits you... should never be YOUR culture.
bro, u don't need a codessa. u need Islam. everything u spoke about wanting in this podcast and others u will find in Islam. From how to manage your finances, justice and dignity to wife/wives and ilobolo in it's purest form i.e. mahr. Origin & significance of slaughtering sheep & cows, elders, names and sunames bearing lineage of the father, role & responsibility of each parent, spirituality, what "ancestors" actually are, the scientific and spiritual reality of this world and beyond, etc. It's all there. Forget everything u think u know about Islam and Muslims, and look at it's prinicples from the source with fresh eyes when u read the Quran, the literal preserved word of The Creator as it was revealed. Islam doesn't belong to any ethnicity or nationality, it is a universal message to a way of life that transcends and filters all cultures and ideologies.
Allowing the ghost lady, aybo, I mean ghost guy 😂 to throw in his 2 cents on the convo was cool. There is a spice(nyana) it adds instead of the convo being a debate between Pen and Tebogo. He's got that lullaby evening radio voice on a Monday night after a long day 👌
Penuel you spit bars. I think Tebogo loses his train of thought when you challenge or interrogate his statements, sometimes i think i know where he is going with a statement but when you interrogate he arrives at a different destination. Like when he said the guy is afraid to tell the Girl the truth. I think the truth he was referring to is the truth that the girl is no longer a virgin, she’s been with other guys and she maybe has a child, so he can’t pay lobola for the girl. I might be wrong but I thought that was where he was going with that point. Great and thought provoking conversation Guys.
Yho! The truth and the unfiltered part of other essential facts in this conversation… 😩😭! It’s a hard truth to swallow, and worth it for the times we are living in today.
Great conversation!! How I wish you had Abba Ayalew Amlak for that Lobola chat and do a round table on it. Would have loved to hear his views on surnames, role of a woman and and...
Keebine talks about lifestyle in his opening. Boy its a lifestyle for some of us to be here every monday. We love the show guys❤.. These are some of my best/favorite guests : Mandisa Mashego ❤🥺 Luyanda Jafta Mooshtafa Zamase Siya Ngcangca Ike Khumalo (isgebengu usbuka nje😂) Princess Mthombeni Nonhlanhla Manganyi Miranda Ntshangase And Eusebius McKaiser (RIP🙏)
Yoo dope conversation Inhlawulo and lobola doesn't make sense in today's world. It happened to me were we drove from uMzimkhulu to Manguzi for my lobola negotiations, I was not a part of the negotiations due to "culture"😮😮😮 however the money they were negotiating with 60% of it was my money. There are two things that pulls black people down 1 religion 2 culture its about time we change things.
I love how Penuel is not easily agreeable with every statement this guy loosely stated. ,Tebo still needs a whole lot of learning to do, but love how he is not afraid to always speak his mind.
such an informative topic, i have definitely learned and also questioned the idea of marriage as someone who was not groomed about marriage and living in an urban area, im asking myself if i am ready for marriage.. in all soo many topics need to be re-evaluated cos currently we are living in times which are not concurrent with our old traditional systems.
Virginity is part of the package bro Don't mislead people coz in the negotiations Virginity is the main factor and the woman's family wear pride in their daughter's Virginity
Totally agree with Mr. Pen... I suggest people pick up Cheikh Anta Diop's Book "The Cultural Unity of Black Africa." Its PDF version can be found online. iLobolo is NOT about virginity, not even sex futhi! It is about the structure and organization of African societies. Because of Matriarchy men bring dowry to women; Which contrasts Patriarchal societies where women bring/brought the dowry to men. So with this understanding, just to give an analogy, what does the virginity of men have to do with the Lobolo the women bring/brought to them in patriarchal societies? As the mighty Pen said, NOTHING!
I wish this was a round table with the Dojo Podcast crew because they tackled this issue very well but mainly from the Basotho culture point of reference & experience!
I watched snippets of that episode. It's all a load of nonsense. As Africans we had our cultures way before modernity came. Castle Milk Stout conversations are garbage. I detest them.
Today I subscribed to this channel the work you guys are doing is amazing As a member I got 2 suggestions 1. I also enjoy Tebugo's views on different topics can you please do at least 1 episode a month with Tebugo. 2. Invite us as audience and have question time.
1:16:00 one thing I had to also learn or notice in this case is that - going through a lot in life doesn't always translate to experience. Who's to say that having multiple wives or been through marriage equates to an experienced person. I would like to believe is one's responsibility to seek information about their origin and ways of living in general, Its going to be hard to wait or expect our elders to teach us what they also had difficulties in the process of gathering the information
I have lived and work most of my life in neighbouring countries. In all of these countries they have a system similar to ilobolo. I was told that it is an ancient tradition tribal custom not a thing colonial poeers brought here. In Mozambique north of Tete the chief of that area told mebthat Westerners can learn from the system, in their case the ilobolo systems is where the parents receive the gift i.e. cattle or goats or money which were kept in case the husband deserts his wife and children, the parents keep the ilobolo and that is used to take care then of their daughter and children if there are any. I do not know what happens if their daughter deserts her husband, I presume the parents must give back the ilobolo. I think its is a great custom but if you dont have cows or goats it can ne impractical
Thinks gents for having real conversations which a lot of content creators do not really go deeper into and again while being relaxed with no arguments
While I was in school only girls where taken and taught such from primary to high school. But the boys were ignored unfortunately the streets will make you learn quick.
Who teaches "us girls" to have s*x ? 🤔do we get there with blindfolds on and trust our men will know A,B and C ? Nah....Wats more complicated Pen for us women is > > contraceptives/periods/2 entries "hmm which 1"/pregnancy/diseases etc
One of the worst things about growing up as a black child is that we learn to grow from our friends who are s clueless as us. The development or lack thereof is usually clear when we enter workspaces with men from other races who were brought up with progressive structures from their families
Bhuti raised a very important issue I used to have this conversation with my colleague my story is my father is a Zulu and my mother is a Ndebele and I grow up on the mother side i grow up speaking isiNdebele the culture that I know isiNdebele since I was young when people ask you see as what and I tell them I recognise myself as a ndebele coz I don’t know anything about Zulu,yes I’m Zulu by bloodline but I’m a Ndebele because they raised to be a man I’m today ngikhelele emhlabeni wamandebele
I absolutely agree that a conversation needs to happen. Amajita we've experienced so much under the framework of culture! Personally, it's inspiring to hear of the customs and what they meant, and I do mean "what they meant" because I'm not sure we're talking about the same things as before. Cash is king in 2024, and that's what influences a lot of these things. It seems to be there is also an entitlement our society has created in women, and perhaps this is incidental. But you'll find a lot of women who truly believe you must lobola them and do all the English stuff, and nothing about who they are must factor in that equation, "accept me as I am". That's the thing I can't accept as a man, especially because this world made it clear early on that nothing will be handed to me. So you can imagine in that context, someone thinking you should do all this for them, but you must also respect my "agency". And that's why for me, this is just too messy. Unless we're gonna have the conversation let's scrap it all. If I have a son, I wouldn't want him to go through this kind of confusion that we have gone through in our generation. And also, a lot of our families created this confusion by integrating Christianity. When some of us come of age and see these contradictions, we have many questions, and unfortunately, Elders are not forthcoming with honest answers. So let's have the conversation in very sober terms, otherwise let's just scrap it all since for many of us we've just been existing in this world as it is, following the set rules and so forth. So there's a sense in which very few pf our Elders were able to pass down these things, and now we have to go digging , but life is happening in real time as we're dogging. We meet women everyday, we get interested in them, but now all these questions come up. And I am yet to hear a family that would allow you to take their daughter without lobola, no matter how she is, you must pay.
This is the first guest that speaks before he thinks, his interlect is limited and Pen is exposing the guy. This guy has no answer, he is like a high school kid.
I was shocked when he said "That's why all people must die" 🤔 I ignored the bad English but he actually just said humanity must end 😭 his ancestors probably wish they never fought through the stone age till now because what a disappointing descendant 🚮
WHO OWNS CULTURE??? Who defines customs? Is there a book that is a reference? Or does everyone freestyle based on what they THINK people who came before them, did or were trying to do?!
We are taught at an early stage bout our roots/family history, in a situation like this, you use ibhokwe, in a situation like this yinkomo, we know umhlaba wasekhaya uqala apha and who are our alies, my kids will be taught the same and I'm so lucky that I come from a place where we still practice our culture
Nature does since our traditions & culture respect the laws of nature and not of man. Customs are divided into two eg. There are the tribes ones and the clan ones. To explain further for example, in my culture (siSwati) there are the general cultural customs like the wedding process but within that general process each clan also has practices that they have for their clan within that general wedding process whether it is something as small as the herbs used in the some of the rituals or as big as the clan laws.
We just need an elder to educate Us about iLobola and ihlawulo. The is a reason why those rituals were practiced in african families. The understanding will make things clear on why they are practiced. We must avoid to alter our cultural heritage to be seen advanced in this modern world. We just need more clarity on why ilobolo and inhlawulo were practiced.
On the topic of "when should young people have sex" I'd say once they are fully developed around 25 to 30 yrs, and sex education can begin from around 10yrs until 25. Because in life somethings might be ready for you but you are not ready for them. That's just me🙏
Come on Marena 😮 you can’t end the show like that. Bra Tebza was correct for suggesting to insert the card. Wow, a timeless conversation 🙌🏽 kea leboha haholo. Please create a segment from this conversation. Some of us lost our fathers very young. Like 7 years old. Mme played and is still playing a vital role in my life but, a woman can’t teach me how to be a man, but more on how to treat a woman because she’s a woman. I’d appreciate that., if it’s lucrative for you gentlemen. Kea leboha haholo 👑🙌🏽
Question should be, why modern people sex each other without isidima? Media has polluted our values. Lobola is good, because our ancestors were intelligent. If you respect a parent, you'll respect sons, daughters, and family.
One of the laws of the universe is evolution. Lobola has changed/ evolved throughout time. Marriage sometimes ends because of financial issues. Lobola/Magadi is a financial transaction and an ego from the parents of the woman. Culture exploits, man gets into debt to meet the requirements of lobola then he can’t provide for his family. Then GBV 😭 Lobola Magadi doesn’t bring unity
As a woman in rural arears I disagree. It was never an ego from a woman's family, maybe there are aspects of it that are egotistic but not the whole LOBOLA. Lobola is my family men trying to protect me from my fiance/ his family. Lobola money/ cows buy me the basic neccessities that I am going to neèd as a new wife e.g bedroom suite ( I must have my own and my family knows that), Kitchen utensils, Stove/ wood/ igoqo lam, ikhuba lam, iimbiza zam etc. Maybe modern men can say "We can always do that as a couple" My family men know how men think. My husband being a man and his family might not do that and I can end up unneccessarily struggling for the most basic neccessities, worst of all with a child/children involved. I am not sure what people in cities do with Lobola money, but in most homes in the villages ( not sure if it's exactly the same but in Xhosa families) LOBOLA price depends on your lifestyle. You can not want a white wedding & expect cheap Lobola. My family's responsibility is to take care of me and my seed & the higher the wedding costs the higher the LOBOLA. Best thing cancel the white wedding or big celebrations so that the money is directed to basic neccessities. Long term romance/ partnership without family involvement is a disaster for us women hence the love scamming. You remove Lobola you are removing my family protection, we might as well cancel marriage. NO MARRIAGE, NO SEX! Period! and definately no children. Let's just end this whole circus!
Lobolo serve as a spiritual sacrifice. What you love or desire you sacrifice for. Economic sharing of wealth. Even a poor family is guaranteed of cows if they have a daughter. To understand these things takes wisdom
In Islam there is nikah. This marital gift is determined by the bride and given to the bride. The gift can be anything and a payment plan can be negotiated-if need be. The rest of the family receives nothing if I am not mistaken.
Pen you said something profound that people must not cancel eg: Lobolo for people who that is easy for them. I think feminists must not break down practices they consider patriarchal instead they must create their own culture and customs! Leave what works for others if they believe and willing to live with it!
Maybe we have to honest.No everything was perfect back then.Our Great ,great Mother told us the truth.I am still asking.How do we deal with inlaw violance.And should Woman give up her Clansname
@@nomkhosiprecious9435 as a man prepared to do the thankless duty of protecting and providing for a family as best as I possibly can, I believe that it’s not asking too much to ask for my family’s last name to live on. I believe weak men are to blame for all the world’s current issues and strong men are the answer. Leadership. To live forever is impossible but to give my kids and their grand kids a name that they can share with the great men who lived and died for them is why I believe in surnames and even clan names
People talk about lobola as if the womans family contributes nothing forgeting things like umabo .Umabo can end up costing far more than lobola and its not negotiable .The people who are getting married must not betray each other in most cases they betray each other before negotiations how .A guy must tell the women the size of his family before lobola negotiations so that the woman family can adjust the lobola accordingly .One woman I know was tricked by her husband by hiding the true size of his family .The womans family ended accepting R 40 000 lobola only for the womans family to pay close to R100 000 on umabo blankets and reed mats and all the gifts for the mans family including her own bed and kist. Then who lobolad who? That whole lobola went back to the unkhwenyana family plus a free wife
"Ukwenziwa kwezinto nosiko kuyaguquka ikuze kuhambisane nesikhathi samanje" these are words once said by Khethiwe to UKhapela, a very cultural man, on Generations, and for the first time he had no comeback! Teboho is very right, culture goes with time. But not only time, also your surroundings and where you live. After 94 we started seeing even new culture in townships, kasi culture. As rural areas modernise, new cultures or certain ways of doing things changed. Not just black people, when colonisers came here, they were wearing some funny pants and had some weird ways of living, which is completely different from today's. I've heard Penuel arguing about, for example, a person would say they are proudly Zulu, but they don't wear ibheshu, and hunt etc etc, but the way Zulus were living a further 300 years before that era was completely different. Being a Zulu today is completely different from Shakas times, and it is NOT westernized, but rather modernise. I'm just making example with Zulus
🤣🤣🤣 "Ukwenziwa kwezinto nosiko kuyaguquka ikuze kuhambisane nesikhathi samanje" these are words once said by Khethiwe to UKhapela, a very cultural man, on Generations.
I love this piece, Bro Pen. Please feed us the second piece. But before you do, please engage Cheikh Anta Diop's works, especially "The Cultural Unity of Black Africa" Maybe the second piece will be more intelligently handled, instead of this infantile discussion of a serious topic(s).
Tebogo is about to educate us and Penuel is disturbing him😭😭 I'm saying this with mich respect to Penuel 🙏but I feel like we missing out on a lot from Tebogo
GREAT CONTENT 😊......but ah !.....wat happened to the rest of the footage?? Nah guys.....i was laughing 😂 then DZUU! 😶 LOADSHEDDING. Heh?? Oh....Tebogo mentioned "memory space"....but nooooo....Pen said "20min we rapping up" 🤦♀️ sigh 😕
Maybe lobola should be a "Cow-a-year" type deal, capped at say 11 cattle. So every year, you send 1 head of cattle to the bride's family (Wether EFT or 4-legged creature) and if ya'll divorce after 2 years, at least you've only "spent" 2 cows. This could also reduce the weight of having to pay everything at once plus I am given to understand that you don't "finish" loboling, so this would probably serve us well...
Should men be forced to marry their babymamas? Should women be forced to marry their babydaddies? Should ppl be forced to hand their kids to their parents, if they are not married?
If women give their children to their grandparents, we are traumatizing the children and separating them from their father and mother.That doesnt help anyone
Yes as to make the child can keep the teaches of his father side also to make the women take accountability because she allowed herself to get impregnated by that man/boy
@@tshepomotshepana7635 What about the Man who impregnated the girl.Should we punish the children for mistake from Father.What about the accountability of the Husband.
@@PhumzileB.Sokhela-qd5pe There's a difference between calling the names of men that came before, and what we call surnames today. I hope that makes sense.
I do not think inhlawulo is about punishment for overstepping from boyhood to manhood. I think it is a fine for pregnancy before marriage. The rules are you should have married her before she got pregnant. Similarly "no sex before marriage".
I remember a conversation... "In present times we believe that our traditional attires are mini skirts and exposing breasts. Think about this, do you really believe that people wore miniskirts in winter in Africa?"
1:12:46 I'm not trying to be a feminist here but at most woman get the short end of the stick globally than man yeah biblically the man is the head this convo has to happen with omama in present as well to get the full scope of view to this yes we discussing the codesa 2.0 have people who represent both genders in the same table
Based on your acknowledgment that Africans are not homogeneous; what then warrants the label in the first place ? What is the purpose of the label? Should then not every tribe identify individually with it's unique cultural practices? When you call everyone Africans, are you not by implication saying that you are all the same?"
@NjabuloNtshangase-hf3ey I disagree with you saying it's merely a matter of geography. You can tell by the language that we use when we say " you look Asian" that there is something about how someone looks that can tell you where they are from and subsequently the language that they would speak and even their culture. This makes sense because every tribe descends from a certain Patriarch and hence when we ask someone their tribe we are really asking " which family(ies) do you come from?" hence Izithakazelo and clan names. It's also in the title of this video " African custom" which is saying there is a manner of being and certain practices that we identify as "normal" to the people we consider African- they are the rule and being Christian is an exception. I am Hebrew, I've lived in Africa my whole life, and I am Christian. Am I still African ?
@@KingJesusSavedElle Are your ancestors from Africa if so then I would assume you are. Language has nothing to do with weather you're African or not since there are so many different languages in Africa and many are not considered to be similar e.g the Zulu languages is very different from Vhenda or tswane despite them being from the same country. When people outside of Africa use words like African custom they usually refer to Nigerians since the migrate the most to European countries or America
@@NjabuloNtshangase-hf3ey@NjabuloNtshangase-hf3ey When I say I am Hebrew; I mean that I am an Israelite from the 12 tribes of Jacob. In the same way that someone would ask "ungumzulu na?" to you because your Surname is Ntshangase. They aren't necessarily asking if you're zulu speaking, they are asking if your tribe is Zulu. Just like Tswana is both a language and a tribe; I am a Hebrew. From Abraham my ancestors begin in the East in Asia and my ancestry can be found in Japan, India, the Middle East, Germany, France, Italy, even the country side of North America. I was brought here as a slave. You are considered African as a Zulu because Africa was the land given to the fathers of the Zulus by God. To make an example so you understand me, Abraham, in the book of Genesis took 3 wives during his life on earth and his last wife Keturah birthed Jokshan, ZImran, Midian, Medan, Ishbak, and Shuah. Now eventhough there are people who are called Indian these people are not all alike. For example, some Indian people come from Midian and some come from Shuah. Shuah is the ancestor of some people who are today called Indian, Nigerian/ west African, Cape Coloured, Griqua, KhoiKhoi, Xhosa. Jokshan is the ancestor of people who are today called East African like Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, even Burundi, Rwanda, Kenya , Tanzania, some people who identify as Rastafarian within the Cape Coloured community. My whole point is that there is an overlap because all of Abraham's children by Keturah have similarity interms of their looks ( after all their ancestors were siblings) that they can be grouped into the term Indian, for example but on the internet people use filters so you'd think these people are vastly different when their not. God spends time in Genesis after the flood telling us about the sons of Noah and their sons and He tells us that each son had a their own language, nation, and lands because this is where tribes started from. Abraham's 1st wife Sarah had Isaac and Isaac with his wife Rebekah had twins Jacob and Esau. God describes to us that Esau came out with a red complexion and was hairy compared to his twin brother Jacob. There are people today who call themselves Zulu who, when you look at them, are red in complexion because their ancestor is Esau and they are called edomites. God gave Esau his land which was called "Edom" which is in the continent of Europe like Russia. These people are different from other Zulu people whose ancestral land was given by God to be in Africa. So now when we say, "African customs" are the way in which we have always done things as Africans and then we close ourselves from Christianity because we say it is not an African way to do things; we need to consider this and be open to seeing both sides. In conversations like this when you are debating the importance of something or how relevant it is; the only way to do so is to go back to the source of all things. What does God say about ilobola? Because otherwise we're all debating what we were taught by our parents who could have been wrong.
In islam, every child has a right to be brought up with good morals in a stable home with good parents taking their obligations seriously. When you impregnate a woman you are not married to, you and the mother have robbed your unborn child of having a stable family home and if you don't get married then you have brought a child into a broken home and already disadvantaged his upbringing and future as he cannot inherit from his father. (Note: the sin is not absolved by marriage though, but by sincere repentance and marriage does not become obligatory after the sin but it would be better for the child). It is important to note that in Islam seeking a partner in marriage comes with the responsibility of ensuring you marry someone who will be a good parent to your future children as you will be accountable for it as it impacts how your children will turn out.
This konvo got to the climax and I guess they had to just cut it off without penuel saying let's shut it down 😂 otherwise let's have a part 2 where you start from sex education
Dont destroy African culture in the name of mordernity. Lobolo serves multiple purposes. 1. Its spritual. What you love or desire you sacrifice for. That sacrifice creates a spiritual link. 2. Economic distribution of wealth. Even the poorest family as long as they have a daughter they will get a cow or cows. Cows give milk. sustanance. 3. Honour Honouring the source of the extension of your genes. What you honour you benefit from. African culture is always deeper than face value.
One update that is need, when the uncle get together if we can't be in the room we need someone (friend, uncle, sister) who knows me, who I am what I do on a day to day and what I have done and someone (friend, uncle, sister) who knows my the wife day in day out
Bro i love this show pls get a proper guest tell this guy to stop forcing himself on the show, we love the more informative shows with specialists who give us facts on their specific fields with you asking intelligent questions. Pls leadership
Ilobola shouldn't as high as they make it but should be something that is small because we are building relationship with two families. Not that you need to calculate all your money you invested to your daughter,and now i need to pay back.
What are you saying, MAN? Are you saying it was brought by colonizers? No, Man! They learned it from us! Had it not been for this institution, I doubt that you would be here today, as an African person, who by virtue of nature is Matriarchal!
So, what constitutes marriage in God’s eyes or Christianity? 1) As long as the requirements are reasonable and not against the Bible, a man and a woman should seek whatever formal governmental recognition is available. 2) A man and a woman should follow whatever cultural, familial, and covenantal practices are typically employed to recognize a couple as “officially married.” 3) If possible, a man and a woman should consummate the marriage sexually, fulfilling the physical aspect of the “one flesh” principle. Plus the one about the lady depends on the family. Because some become Christians at a later stage having go through culture or whatever her family was doing or believing.
THE PENUEL SHOW WITH TEBOGO KEEBINE & SIZWE DUMA
00:00 - INTRO
04:30 - Thoughts on African Cultural practices
08:45 - Scrapping Lobola
10:45 - Lack of morality amongst us
16:05 - Concept of CODESA 2.0
18:55 - The history of Lobola
28:45 - Making Lobola better
32:45 - The Issue of Surnames
40:04 - Finding our cultural identity
42:35 - Upholding traditional cultural practices
49:50 - Lobola amongst homosexual relationships
53:50 - How money holds power in families
56:45 - How we misconstrue cultural/religious practices
1:01:35 - Types of marriages in South Africa
1:09:15 - Is there a need for marriage today
1:12:50 - The measure of adulthood
1:16:35 - What is Inhlawulo “Damaged”
1:23:40 - Inhlawulo as a penalty system
1:33:15 - Rectifying the way we practice culture
1:39:30 - The issue of modernity
1:42:55 - Lessons from Muslim community
1:47:15 - Intentional parenting
1:49:00 - When should young people have sex & kids
1:59:40 - Importance of sex education
2:06:05 - Closing comments
2:05:39 - ENDS
Compiled by Khwezi Ndlovu
IG: kzndlovu
We didn't have anyone to man the camera on me, hence the blurry visuals. Humblest apologies for this. We'll fix in the future.
As long as we heard you perfectly Mr Penuel
Sho grootman pen please start recording more than once a week cause you record once and sometimes the guests you even have are not interesting to some of us so even if you can have one like this with you and the crew one with yourself and one with a guest every week perfect
Great episode though, I truly enjoyed it.
Bro i've wanting to say that. Its a lifestyle being here on Mondays. But sometimes they bring a not interesting guest..now we have to wait for next Monday..to be surprised with a boring guest again😅.💔@@LivhuWaniWisdom
Nah man. That was a cool shot. Maybe not the whole show though, but in this case, the blurriness was cool.
iLobolo should focus on:
- BRINGING FAMILIES TOGETHER
- AGREEING ON CULTURAL UNITY
- HELPING THE COUPLE BUILD A FAMILY
- CONFLICT RESOLUTION...
...if the focus is money... you've lost the whole thing.
Agreed
I agree with you. Ilobolo nje wasn't about money manje sekwenziwa enye into nje ongayazi💔
Agreed, Sir! Especially on the question of family and cultural unity. But you guys should be careful not to "Carelessly denigrate [our African Matriarchal] institutions." I believe you are intelligent enough to know that that is chaotic!
So instead of going around saying, "Lobolo must be scratched/canceled," why don't we, serious and conscious Africans, meditate on things as deep and serious as this and see if we can't put our heads together and right the wrongs that are apparent in such very vital African institution(s). i.e., Lobolo.
Lobola should be reprocipical period but today its one sided, and only virgins should qualify for ilobola but these days girls loose their virginity kwa grade 10 its miserable and sad
The nerve of saying it M U S T . If you don’t want to pay Lobola and your girlfreind does not mind (including her family) the kudos to you. But leave us who like paying for lobola out of it. Men have the money to buy alcohol daily and normally never do anything constructive with their money but want to scrap out ilobola which is part of our tradition.. You wanna have 4 to 5 wives that you can’t afford. Let me thule
Eish this conversation is all over the place. Symbolizes the confusion we have around this topic as people who are uncultured.
As a young gent i understood when one man said "*impregnate the land first before you can impregnate the women*", in this simple context we must understand that we are not supposed to have unprotected sex before we can even fix our financial circumstances, and before we even fix ours we must firstly fix our home situations, this is to make sure when the lady comes in the land of Kwa Lumbela she is coming in a better condition or (Advance circumstances), this becomes a clear example to the other family that you are indeed able to take care of their daughter. This act prevents mamazala drama and other unwanted finical fight in the family.
Sex education, must be taught in a different way in schools, because now its a hobby (hareyeng ke Game). Sex must be a privilege not an age privilege but an achievement privilege to young men, example at a certain point you get a purple card that acts as a black card but it gives u access to certain area in the society which u can be romantic and romanticize with women. Therefore most Gents will focus more on getting the bag and accomplish other thing's in life.
Thanks and i stand to be corrected on my views.
Happy Monday all.
The most important takeout from this episode must be to focus on the PRINCIPLES and not surface level.
Whether ilobolo or inhlawulo... what is the PRINCIPLE behind what you're doing?
Once you move away from the principle, you destroy the culture. If principles change... then change the customs accordingly.
A culture that impoverishes or exploits you... should never be YOUR culture.
#FACTS !!
bro, u don't need a codessa. u need Islam. everything u spoke about wanting in this podcast and others u will find in Islam. From how to manage your finances, justice and dignity to wife/wives and ilobolo in it's purest form i.e. mahr. Origin & significance of slaughtering sheep & cows, elders, names and sunames bearing lineage of the father, role & responsibility of each parent, spirituality, what "ancestors" actually are, the scientific and spiritual reality of this world and beyond, etc. It's all there. Forget everything u think u know about Islam and Muslims, and look at it's prinicples from the source with fresh eyes when u read the Quran, the literal preserved word of The Creator as it was revealed. Islam doesn't belong to any ethnicity or nationality, it is a universal message to a way of life that transcends and filters all cultures and ideologies.
Allowing the ghost lady, aybo, I mean ghost guy 😂 to throw in his 2 cents on the convo was cool. There is a spice(nyana) it adds instead of the convo being a debate between Pen and Tebogo. He's got that lullaby evening radio voice on a Monday night after a long day 👌
I've seen this before Tebogo Michael Keebine is a diamond in the ruff,
Syabonga bafethu for the chat
Penuel you spit bars. I think Tebogo loses his train of thought when you challenge or interrogate his statements, sometimes i think i know where he is going with a statement but when you interrogate he arrives at a different destination. Like when he said the guy is afraid to tell the Girl the truth. I think the truth he was referring to is the truth that the girl is no longer a virgin, she’s been with other guys and she maybe has a child, so he can’t pay lobola for the girl. I might be wrong but I thought that was where he was going with that point. Great and thought provoking conversation Guys.
This conversation needs a woman to add the women side it feels incomplete without the other side
Amen!
Also men and women well versed in our traditions not Penuel and friends
@@LukeRev480like who
@@him4690 Someone in the same caliber as Zolani Mkiva or the late Shenge. I think uXolisa Guzula can try. Bakhona just can't think of any right now
Yho! The truth and the unfiltered part of other essential facts in this conversation… 😩😭! It’s a hard truth to swallow, and worth it for the times we are living in today.
I love how Penuel thinks
I enjoyed watching this one. Picked my brains. I had an epiphany while watching this.
Tebogo........I enjoy listening to this guy
But why though?
Great conversation!! How I wish you had Abba Ayalew Amlak for that Lobola chat and do a round table on it. Would have loved to hear his views on surnames, role of a woman and and...
Keebine talks about lifestyle in his opening. Boy its a lifestyle for some of us to be here every monday.
We love the show guys❤..
These are some of my best/favorite guests :
Mandisa Mashego ❤🥺
Luyanda Jafta
Mooshtafa Zamase
Siya Ngcangca
Ike Khumalo (isgebengu usbuka nje😂)
Princess Mthombeni
Nonhlanhla Manganyi
Miranda Ntshangase
And Eusebius McKaiser (RIP🙏)
love the conversation with you guys just speaking your minds
more of these please
I enjoy the talk with "important guests" but I enjoy these talks a lot more😁
Today's podcast was fun😂😂😂😂😅😂😂
Yoo dope conversation
Inhlawulo and lobola doesn't make sense in today's world. It happened to me were we drove from uMzimkhulu to Manguzi for my lobola negotiations, I was not a part of the negotiations due to "culture"😮😮😮 however the money they were negotiating with 60% of it was my money. There are two things that pulls black people down 1 religion 2 culture its about time we change things.
@@cromwelgcina9707 fully agreed with you. With that said, maybe we can tweak these things to serve the ppl, before we fully throw it out?
I love how Penuel is not easily agreeable with every statement this guy loosely stated. ,Tebo still needs a whole lot of learning to do, but love how he is not afraid to always speak his mind.
such an informative topic, i have definitely learned and also questioned the idea of marriage as someone who was not groomed about marriage and living in an urban area, im asking myself if i am ready for marriage.. in all soo many topics need to be re-evaluated cos currently we are living in times which are not concurrent with our old traditional systems.
The dlozi issue Pen is a valid point. That a respectful conversation with elders about certain things need to happen about certain cultures.
iLobolo is NOT about virginity. Linking it to virginity exposes an ignorance of the principles behind ilobolo.
Virginity is a part of it though. Just to add on.
Virginity is part of the package bro
Don't mislead people coz in the negotiations Virginity is the main factor and the woman's family wear pride in their daughter's Virginity
Stop lying, virginity is part and parcel of Lobola. You know nothing about tradition
Who TF said it's about virginity? it's not about it but virginity is part and parcel of it bro in case you didn't know
Totally agree with Mr. Pen...
I suggest people pick up Cheikh Anta Diop's Book "The Cultural Unity of Black Africa." Its PDF version can be found online.
iLobolo is NOT about virginity, not even sex futhi! It is about the structure and organization of African societies. Because of Matriarchy men bring dowry to women; Which contrasts Patriarchal societies where women bring/brought the dowry to men. So with this understanding, just to give an analogy, what does the virginity of men have to do with the Lobolo the women bring/brought to them in patriarchal societies? As the mighty Pen said, NOTHING!
Such a lovely, sensitive, sensible, practical discussion.
I wish this was a round table with the Dojo Podcast crew because they tackled this issue very well but mainly from the Basotho culture point of reference & experience!
Can you please direct me to the episode
Tebza : ' Uvale nalowomnyango mawuphuma' lol I love the authenticity and imperfections of this show
Im reminded of the Castle Milk Stout conversations on Makoti aka Maak Ons Tea😅eey kushubile🤞
I watched snippets of that episode. It's all a load of nonsense.
As Africans we had our cultures way before modernity came. Castle Milk Stout conversations are garbage. I detest them.
Shout out to Khwezi Ndlovu for complying the list of things to be discussed according to time slot 🙏🏾
Today I subscribed to this channel the work you guys are doing is amazing
As a member I got 2 suggestions
1. I also enjoy Tebugo's views on different topics can you please do at least 1 episode a month with Tebugo.
2. Invite us as audience and have question time.
1:16:00 one thing I had to also learn or notice in this case is that - going through a lot in life doesn't always translate to experience. Who's to say that having multiple wives or been through marriage equates to an experienced person.
I would like to believe is one's responsibility to seek information about their origin and ways of living in general, Its going to be hard to wait or expect our elders to teach us what they also had difficulties in the process of gathering the information
I have lived and work most of my life in neighbouring countries. In all of these countries they have a system similar to ilobolo. I was told that it is an ancient tradition tribal custom not a thing colonial poeers brought here. In Mozambique north of Tete the chief of that area told mebthat Westerners can learn from the system, in their case the ilobolo systems is where the parents receive the gift i.e. cattle or goats or money which were kept in case the husband deserts his wife and children, the parents keep the ilobolo and that is used to take care then of their daughter and children if there are any. I do not know what happens if their daughter deserts her husband, I presume the parents must give back the ilobolo. I think its is a great custom but if you dont have cows or goats it can ne impractical
Thinks gents for having real conversations which a lot of content creators do not really go deeper into and again while being relaxed with no arguments
These are the kind of conversations we need to have
We need to host workshops to teach boys how to have sex properly, and the various considerations around sexual intercourse, like pregnancy & sti's.
Man shut up with that
In fact, we need to be reminded of our Matriarchy, Grootman, I swear this might help.
While I was in school only girls where taken and taught such from primary to high school. But the boys were ignored unfortunately the streets will make you learn quick.
Who teaches "us girls" to have s*x ? 🤔do we get there with blindfolds on and trust our men will know A,B and C ? Nah....Wats more complicated Pen for us women is > > contraceptives/periods/2 entries "hmm which 1"/pregnancy/diseases etc
One of the worst things about growing up as a black child is that we learn to grow from our friends who are s clueless as us. The development or lack thereof is usually clear when we enter workspaces with men from other races who were brought up with progressive structures from their families
King David Studios had a conversation titled "how to ruin lobola negotiations". It was a great episode.
Bhuti raised a very important issue I used to have this conversation with my colleague my story is my father is a Zulu and my mother is a Ndebele and I grow up on the mother side i grow up speaking isiNdebele the culture that I know isiNdebele since I was young when people ask you see as what and I tell them I recognise myself as a ndebele coz I don’t know anything about Zulu,yes I’m Zulu by bloodline but I’m a Ndebele because they raised to be a man I’m today ngikhelele emhlabeni wamandebele
Good gentlemen conversation
I absolutely agree that a conversation needs to happen. Amajita we've experienced so much under the framework of culture! Personally, it's inspiring to hear of the customs and what they meant, and I do mean "what they meant" because I'm not sure we're talking about the same things as before. Cash is king in 2024, and that's what influences a lot of these things.
It seems to be there is also an entitlement our society has created in women, and perhaps this is incidental. But you'll find a lot of women who truly believe you must lobola them and do all the English stuff, and nothing about who they are must factor in that equation, "accept me as I am". That's the thing I can't accept as a man, especially because this world made it clear early on that nothing will be handed to me. So you can imagine in that context, someone thinking you should do all this for them, but you must also respect my "agency".
And that's why for me, this is just too messy. Unless we're gonna have the conversation let's scrap it all. If I have a son, I wouldn't want him to go through this kind of confusion that we have gone through in our generation. And also, a lot of our families created this confusion by integrating Christianity. When some of us come of age and see these contradictions, we have many questions, and unfortunately, Elders are not forthcoming with honest answers.
So let's have the conversation in very sober terms, otherwise let's just scrap it all since for many of us we've just been existing in this world as it is, following the set rules and so forth. So there's a sense in which very few pf our Elders were able to pass down these things, and now we have to go digging , but life is happening in real time as we're dogging. We meet women everyday, we get interested in them, but now all these questions come up. And I am yet to hear a family that would allow you to take their daughter without lobola, no matter how she is, you must pay.
Penzo ....I like your questioning. Uyacabanga chief
GREAT CONTENT....LOVING THE KONVOS. 💖💖💖💖💗💗💗💓💓💓💓💓❤️❤️❤️❤️ To all the gents...THNX 4 sharing...
I agree with the 3rd speaker on lobola. As a man you need to take to take to be responsibility.
This is the first guest that speaks before he thinks, his interlect is limited and Pen is exposing the guy. This guy has no answer, he is like a high school kid.
I also noticed😭😭
I was shocked when he said "That's why all people must die" 🤔 I ignored the bad English but he actually just said humanity must end 😭 his ancestors probably wish they never fought through the stone age till now because what a disappointing descendant 🚮
WHO OWNS CULTURE??? Who defines customs? Is there a book that is a reference? Or does everyone freestyle based on what they THINK people who came before them, did or were trying to do?!
We are taught at an early stage bout our roots/family history, in a situation like this, you use ibhokwe, in a situation like this yinkomo, we know umhlaba wasekhaya uqala apha and who are our alies, my kids will be taught the same and I'm so lucky that I come from a place where we still practice our culture
Nature does since our traditions & culture respect the laws of nature and not of man. Customs are divided into two eg. There are the tribes ones and the clan ones. To explain further for example, in my culture (siSwati) there are the general cultural customs like the wedding process but within that general process each clan also has practices that they have for their clan within that general wedding process whether it is something as small as the herbs used in the some of the rituals or as big as the clan laws.
We just need an elder to educate Us about iLobola and ihlawulo. The is a reason why those rituals were practiced in african families. The understanding will make things clear on why they are practiced. We must avoid to alter our cultural heritage to be seen advanced in this modern world. We just need more clarity on why ilobolo and inhlawulo were practiced.
They are practised because human beings are inherently rebellious against God's order of doing things.
I love these episodes with the crew. I’m about to enjoy the conversation(s)😁
On the topic of "when should young people have sex" I'd say once they are fully developed around 25 to 30 yrs, and sex education can begin from around 10yrs until 25. Because in life somethings might be ready for you but you are not ready for them. That's just me🙏
Come on Marena 😮 you can’t end the show like that. Bra Tebza was correct for suggesting to insert the card. Wow, a timeless conversation 🙌🏽 kea leboha haholo. Please create a segment from this conversation. Some of us lost our fathers very young. Like 7 years old. Mme played and is still playing a vital role in my life but, a woman can’t teach me how to be a man, but more on how to treat a woman because she’s a woman. I’d appreciate that., if it’s lucrative for you gentlemen. Kea leboha haholo 👑🙌🏽
Question should be, why modern people sex each other without isidima? Media has polluted our values. Lobola is good, because our ancestors were intelligent. If you respect a parent, you'll respect sons, daughters, and family.
One of the laws of the universe is evolution. Lobola has changed/ evolved throughout time. Marriage sometimes ends because of financial issues. Lobola/Magadi is a financial transaction and an ego from the parents of the woman. Culture exploits, man gets into debt to meet the requirements of lobola then he can’t provide for his family. Then GBV 😭 Lobola Magadi doesn’t bring unity
@@mamolewamodiba9159 I agree with all you've written here. A horrible form of evolution that oppresses and destroys.
Yoh!!🙏
As a woman in rural arears I disagree. It was never an ego from a woman's family, maybe there are aspects of it that are egotistic but not the whole LOBOLA.
Lobola is my family men trying to protect me from my fiance/ his family.
Lobola money/ cows buy me the basic neccessities that I am going to neèd as a new wife e.g bedroom suite ( I must have my own and my family knows that), Kitchen utensils, Stove/ wood/ igoqo lam, ikhuba lam, iimbiza zam etc.
Maybe modern men can say "We can always do that as a couple" My family men know how men think. My husband being a man and his family might not do that and I can end up unneccessarily struggling for the most basic neccessities, worst of all with a child/children involved.
I am not sure what people in cities do with Lobola money, but in most homes in the villages ( not sure if it's exactly the same but in Xhosa families) LOBOLA price depends on your lifestyle. You can not want a white wedding & expect cheap Lobola. My family's responsibility is to take care of me and my seed & the higher the wedding costs the higher the LOBOLA.
Best thing cancel the white wedding or big celebrations so that the money is directed to basic neccessities.
Long term romance/ partnership without family involvement is a disaster for us women hence the love scamming.
You remove Lobola you are removing my family protection, we might as well cancel marriage. NO MARRIAGE, NO SEX! Period! and definately no children. Let's just end this whole circus!
Lobolo serve as a spiritual sacrifice. What you love or desire you sacrifice for. Economic sharing of wealth. Even a poor family is guaranteed of cows if they have a daughter. To understand these things takes wisdom
Penuel sicela iplay list yeperenting
Ama episode nyana aii 4,5🤲
In Islam there is nikah. This marital gift is determined by the bride and given to the bride. The gift can be anything and a payment plan can be negotiated-if need be. The rest of the family receives nothing if I am not mistaken.
That's why I as a Zulu man have converted Into being a muslim
Guys the picture quality 🙌🙌🙌
Very interesting subject 👍👌
Currently going through all these customery marriage things. 😂😂 yahhhh
@@melusimnisi Goodluck broer. Enjoy the process.
😂Shame maan❤
Pen you said something profound that people must not cancel eg: Lobolo for people who that is easy for them. I think feminists must not break down practices they consider patriarchal instead they must create their own culture and customs! Leave what works for others if they believe and willing to live with it!
Nazoke 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Maybe we have to honest.No everything was perfect back then.Our Great ,great Mother told us the truth.I am still asking.How do we deal with inlaw violance.And should Woman give up her Clansname
This felt way too short. Where is part 2?
Surely Penuel's next guest ought to be Prof JJ Tabane. That would be sick interview
I love Mondays
The camera and other stuff, guys, as long as we hear you.
Well said, GodPenuel!!!!
I was locked in till bro said “we can put the surname to the side” ndathi “Uyanya ngoku” 😭
If you think it should be a male surname where does that comes from
@@nomkhosiprecious9435 as a man prepared to do the thankless duty of protecting and providing for a family as best as I possibly can, I believe that it’s not asking too much to ask for my family’s last name to live on. I believe weak men are to blame for all the world’s current issues and strong men are the answer. Leadership. To live forever is impossible but to give my kids and their grand kids a name that they can share with the great men who lived and died for them is why I believe in surnames and even clan names
It's amazing to me how the use of surnames came with modernasation, and now we deem them to be sacred. Lol @@nomkhosiprecious9435
People talk about lobola as if the womans family contributes nothing forgeting things like umabo .Umabo can end up costing far more than lobola and its not negotiable .The people who are getting married must not betray each other in most cases they betray each other before negotiations how .A guy must tell the women the size of his family before lobola negotiations so that the woman family can adjust the lobola accordingly .One woman I know was tricked by her husband by hiding the true size of his family .The womans family ended accepting R 40 000 lobola only for the womans family to pay close to R100 000 on umabo blankets and reed mats and all the gifts for the mans family including her own bed and kist. Then who lobolad who? That whole lobola went back to the unkhwenyana family plus a free wife
"Ukwenziwa kwezinto nosiko kuyaguquka ikuze kuhambisane nesikhathi samanje" these are words once said by Khethiwe to UKhapela, a very cultural man, on Generations, and for the first time he had no comeback!
Teboho is very right, culture goes with time. But not only time, also your surroundings and where you live. After 94 we started seeing even new culture in townships, kasi culture. As rural areas modernise, new cultures or certain ways of doing things changed. Not just black people, when colonisers came here, they were wearing some funny pants and had some weird ways of living, which is completely different from today's. I've heard Penuel arguing about, for example, a person would say they are proudly Zulu, but they don't wear ibheshu, and hunt etc etc, but the way Zulus were living a further 300 years before that era was completely different. Being a Zulu today is completely different from Shakas times, and it is NOT westernized, but rather modernise. I'm just making example with Zulus
🤣🤣🤣 "Ukwenziwa kwezinto nosiko kuyaguquka ikuze kuhambisane nesikhathi samanje" these are words once said by Khethiwe to UKhapela, a very cultural man, on Generations.
Mr Peneul... I Like Your Point.
'' I'm Too Young For Marriage But Young Enough For Umjolo''😂😂... I'm Not Laughing... This Is A Huge Point.... Tah
Dope content top notch KONVOO💪
The food issue is real.
😂😂😂if pension was here...nxe nxe
I love this piece, Bro Pen. Please feed us the second piece.
But before you do, please engage Cheikh Anta Diop's works, especially "The Cultural Unity of Black Africa" Maybe the second piece will be more intelligently handled, instead of this infantile discussion of a serious topic(s).
Important subject
Tebogo is about to educate us and Penuel is disturbing him😭😭
I'm saying this with mich respect to Penuel 🙏but I feel like we missing out on a lot from Tebogo
GREAT CONTENT 😊......but ah !.....wat happened to the rest of the footage?? Nah guys.....i was laughing 😂 then DZUU! 😶 LOADSHEDDING. Heh?? Oh....Tebogo mentioned "memory space"....but nooooo....Pen said "20min we rapping up" 🤦♀️ sigh 😕
kopa part two
That Penrose joke 😂😂😂 Dankie Tebza
Tell us please Tebza!! 😂😂1:32:02
Maybe lobola should be a "Cow-a-year" type deal, capped at say 11 cattle. So every year, you send 1 head of cattle to the bride's family (Wether EFT or 4-legged creature) and if ya'll divorce after 2 years, at least you've only "spent" 2 cows. This could also reduce the weight of having to pay everything at once plus I am given to understand that you don't "finish" loboling, so this would probably serve us well...
Should men be forced to marry their babymamas? Should women be forced to marry their babydaddies?
Should ppl be forced to hand their kids to their parents, if they are not married?
If women give their children to their grandparents, we are traumatizing the children and separating them from their father and mother.That doesnt help anyone
@@nyashamahleko7007 I agree with separating them from their parents, but we cannot assume that children raised by grandparents are traumatized.
@@Penuelism Children loos their connection from their Parents. That alone can create trauma.That will create a another form of problems.
Yes as to make the child can keep the teaches of his father side also to make the women take accountability because she allowed herself to get impregnated by that man/boy
@@tshepomotshepana7635 What about the Man who impregnated the girl.Should we punish the children for mistake from Father.What about the accountability of the Husband.
When you have the ritual, sibiza isibongo, izithakazelo zabani empephweni (insence) if you are saying isibongo is a just label?
@@PhumzileB.Sokhela-qd5pe There's a difference between calling the names of men that came before, and what we call surnames today. I hope that makes sense.
I do not think inhlawulo is about punishment for overstepping from boyhood to manhood. I think it is a fine for pregnancy before marriage. The rules are you should have married her before she got pregnant. Similarly "no sex before marriage".
😂😂😂😂 Pen @1:31 ... I dream of a Podcast 📺 ooDube badla Archa🥑 kwaMlotshwa sidla lamb chops 🥩 We eat lamb chops 😂😂😂
please create something like this but with a 20 yr old
I remember a conversation... "In present times we believe that our traditional attires are mini skirts and exposing breasts. Think about this, do you really believe that people wore miniskirts in winter in Africa?"
Lazy Question, Bro!
Eh Mlotshwa this Guy look exactly like you😂
1:12:46 I'm not trying to be a feminist here but at most woman get the short end of the stick globally than man yeah biblically the man is the head this convo has to happen with omama in present as well to get the full scope of view to this yes we discussing the codesa 2.0 have people who represent both genders in the same table
Bafana bami nikhuluma into emqoka kakhulu. Ngathi ningayibhala ngempela incwadi ezosiza abantu bazi ukuthi balandela muphi umgomo. Abantu baxakekile ngempela.
Abantu bazikhethele ukuthi balandela muphi umgomo.
Tebza Ke bosso ❤
Based on your acknowledgment that Africans are not homogeneous; what then warrants the label in the first place ? What is the purpose of the label? Should then not every tribe identify individually with it's unique cultural practices? When you call everyone Africans, are you not by implication saying that you are all the same?"
To point out a group of people coming from the same continent. Asians, Europeans, Americans aren't homogeneous they just share a continent.
@NjabuloNtshangase-hf3ey I disagree with you saying it's merely a matter of geography. You can tell by the language that we use when we say " you look Asian" that there is something about how someone looks that can tell you where they are from and subsequently the language that they would speak and even their culture.
This makes sense because every tribe descends from a certain Patriarch and hence when we ask someone their tribe we are really asking " which family(ies) do you come from?" hence Izithakazelo and clan names.
It's also in the title of this video " African custom" which is saying there is a manner of being and certain practices that we identify as "normal" to the people we consider African- they are the rule and being Christian is an exception.
I am Hebrew, I've lived in Africa my whole life, and I am Christian. Am I still African ?
@@KingJesusSavedElle Are your ancestors from Africa if so then I would assume you are. Language has nothing to do with weather you're African or not since there are so many different languages in Africa and many are not considered to be similar e.g the Zulu languages is very different from
Vhenda or tswane despite them being from the same country. When people outside of Africa use words like African custom they usually refer to Nigerians since the migrate the most to European countries or America
@@NjabuloNtshangase-hf3ey@NjabuloNtshangase-hf3ey When I say I am Hebrew; I mean that I am an Israelite from the 12 tribes of Jacob. In the same way that someone would ask "ungumzulu na?" to you because your Surname is Ntshangase. They aren't necessarily asking if you're zulu speaking, they are asking if your tribe is Zulu.
Just like Tswana is both a language and a tribe; I am a Hebrew. From Abraham my ancestors begin in the East in Asia and my ancestry can be found in Japan, India, the Middle East, Germany, France, Italy, even the country side of North America. I was brought here as a slave.
You are considered African as a Zulu because Africa was the land given to the fathers of the Zulus by God. To make an example so you understand me, Abraham, in the book of Genesis took 3 wives during his life on earth and his last wife Keturah birthed Jokshan, ZImran, Midian, Medan, Ishbak, and Shuah.
Now eventhough there are people who are called Indian these people are not all alike. For example, some Indian people come from Midian and some come from Shuah. Shuah is the ancestor of some people who are today called Indian, Nigerian/ west African, Cape Coloured, Griqua, KhoiKhoi, Xhosa.
Jokshan is the ancestor of people who are today called East African like Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, even Burundi, Rwanda, Kenya , Tanzania, some people who identify as Rastafarian within the Cape Coloured community.
My whole point is that there is an overlap because all of Abraham's children by Keturah have similarity interms of their looks ( after all their ancestors were siblings) that they can be grouped into the term Indian, for example but on the internet people use filters so you'd think these people are vastly different when their not.
God spends time in Genesis after the flood telling us about the sons of Noah and their sons and He tells us that each son had a their own language, nation, and lands because this is where tribes started from. Abraham's 1st wife Sarah had Isaac and Isaac with his wife Rebekah had twins Jacob and Esau. God describes to us that Esau came out with a red complexion and was hairy compared to his twin brother Jacob. There are people today who call themselves Zulu who, when you look at them, are red in complexion because their ancestor is Esau and they are called edomites. God gave Esau his land which was called "Edom" which is in the continent of Europe like Russia. These people are different from other Zulu people whose ancestral land was given by God to be in Africa.
So now when we say, "African customs" are the way in which we have always done things as Africans and then we close ourselves from Christianity because we say it is not an African way to do things; we need to consider this and be open to seeing both sides. In conversations like this when you are debating the importance of something or how relevant it is; the only way to do so is to go back to the source of all things. What does God say about ilobola? Because otherwise we're all debating what we were taught by our parents who could have been wrong.
Colbert is now watching...
IZINJA!
Sbonge 🙌🏾
In islam, every child has a right to be brought up with good morals in a stable home with good parents taking their obligations seriously. When you impregnate a woman you are not married to, you and the mother have robbed your unborn child of having a stable family home and if you don't get married then you have brought a child into a broken home and already disadvantaged his upbringing and future as he cannot inherit from his father. (Note: the sin is not absolved by marriage though, but by sincere repentance and marriage does not become obligatory after the sin but it would be better for the child). It is important to note that in Islam seeking a partner in marriage comes with the responsibility of ensuring you marry someone who will be a good parent to your future children as you will be accountable for it as it impacts how your children will turn out.
This konvo got to the climax and I guess they had to just cut it off without penuel saying let's shut it down 😂 otherwise let's have a part 2 where you start from sex education
Word is bond Ba'fowetu 💧🥋🍃🔦 "Lamb chops" 😂
Dont destroy African culture in the name of mordernity. Lobolo serves multiple purposes. 1. Its spritual. What you love or desire you sacrifice for. That sacrifice creates a spiritual link. 2. Economic distribution of wealth. Even the poorest family as long as they have a daughter they will get a cow or cows. Cows give milk. sustanance. 3. Honour Honouring the source of the extension of your genes. What you honour you benefit from. African culture is always deeper than face value.
One update that is need, when the uncle get together if we can't be in the room we need someone (friend, uncle, sister) who knows me, who I am what I do on a day to day and what I have done and someone (friend, uncle, sister) who knows my the wife day in day out
Lord pen
Bro i love this show pls get a proper guest tell this guy to stop forcing himself on the show, we love the more informative shows with specialists who give us facts on their specific fields with you asking intelligent questions. Pls leadership
He's not forcing himself in, this was a good conversation
@@TshepoMavimbela yes for some one who knows nothing on the topics, but some of us appreciate a more educated discourse
@@ntobekoluvuno ayikho le uyishoyo
@@TshepoMavimbela i appreciate your your opinion leadership
@@ntobekoluvuno 🫶🏼
Ilobola shouldn't as high as they make it but should be something that is small because we are building relationship with two families. Not that you need to calculate all your money you invested to your daughter,and now i need to pay back.
Daury is not an African institution, but other races have come to a realization that it's not beneficial for society and family building.
What are you saying, MAN? Are you saying it was brought by colonizers? No, Man! They learned it from us! Had it not been for this institution, I doubt that you would be here today, as an African person, who by virtue of nature is Matriarchal!
So, what constitutes marriage in God’s eyes or Christianity?
1) As long as the requirements are reasonable and not against the Bible, a man and a woman should seek whatever formal governmental recognition is available.
2) A man and a woman should follow whatever cultural, familial, and covenantal practices are typically employed to recognize a couple as “officially married.”
3) If possible, a man and a woman should consummate the marriage sexually, fulfilling the physical aspect of the “one flesh” principle.
Plus the one about the lady depends on the family. Because some become Christians at a later stage having go through culture or whatever her family was doing or believing.