@7:20 Paid side projects is a good idea to include as part of the interview process. It's a much better way of accessing a developer's overall skill set unlike code tests where you're given a bunch of random questions about a specific language. With paid projects, the employer gets to see not only how you use the language but, also, how you solve problems, how you organize your code, and how you document your code. Whereas a code test is just a memory game so, if there are certain aspects of a language you haven't used in a while and its a normal thing used by the employer, then, you're basically disqualified if you answer the question incorrectly simply because you don't remember. What could happen with a code test is a person who just finished a course in the language could answer the questions flawlessly but, they could also have poor coding habits and/or poor problem solving skills. But, because he was flawless in answering the test questions, the employer decides to hire him and oops... now they end up with a false positive. A paid code project does a lot to help avoid mistakes like that. Moral of the story, a good developer should be judged based on how he uses software tools to solve a problem not based on how well he remembers the answers to random language specific questions. Its much more cost effective for a company to hire a good developer that can use a reference to refresh his memory than it is to hire a weak developer with a good memory of specific language terms but, has poor software development skills.
DHH has such a good perspective on so many aspects of business. But this is great advice. I think the way you implement this is by trial periods if you can, have them do some work for you and you can see exactly how they perform under real-world conditions. Unfortunately a lot of the business world is stuck in old practices.
I'm sorry but... Cover letters are bullshit. Does any company reaching for prospective candidates required to write a specific letter to each candidate explaining why it wants to hire him in particular?! The answer is NO. Then why should an applicant write a personal letter to every company he applies to or takes interest in?! And just like a company can choose from a multitude of applicants, an applicant can choose from a multitude of companies and positions. Cover letters are just a stupid bureaucratic formality.
I'll tell more, dude. HR people spend on average 7 seconds to go through a CV. They don't have time to read those short and important points you've wrote about your skills and education on your CV, and they won't have time to read your mini poem you put into your cover letter.
Valueable interview specially at the end where you both commented about the white board test, which is in terms of effectiveness, simply ridiculous. Many thanks. I hope that companies's CEOs listen to this, because good skillful self-taught guys are being wasted everywhere.
Totally agree. Although I like using pseudo code on a white board or some scratch paper. The whole impromptu white board/code test with out giving the person some time to fully digest the problem and design an elegant solution just doesn't work to truly access ones skills.
White board programming is just stupidity to the extreme. Whenever I heard that, I ask myself: should I prepare for the whiteboard programming session or spend the time to build an Mobile or SaaS app and make money real money? I always ended up building and owning more assets that's putting more money into my pocket.
Brian Nock: Better taking 4 weeks to do 4 features properly with two good people than for that process to take 2 weeks with two good and two crappy people, and then fix design mistakes and bugs and correct data for the better part of half a year.
@@scaleyourcode6677 He's obviously too busy hard-screening those idiot job-seeking programmers. Stu[pid programmers need to be rejected; they need to learn humility. BTW who is snickering at the owner of most successful gem written? I hope this company wakes up
yeah but then again what did he mean by "4 things" I can hardly take anything from this discussion, there is no explicit info, only a bunch of phrases that everybody will get their own way. :s
so maybe sb's code is *derailed* cos you haven't released some good practices of creating clean code to teach from the beginning how to provide optimal code.
+Christophe Limpalair It does make a difference to solve a coding challenge in the comfort of your home..but my experience with those that I consider online Whiteboards are not good. Some companies give you a challenge like "Implement a Binary tree using X and Y" and give you 30 minutes to do that...so I think this doesn't show the applicant's capacity...instead I prefer the project oriented approach where the company give you a little project to work on for a couple of days and then you return back with the result.
this guy has the hubris to judge other people's code based on indentation and then confesses that he'd fail to write a bubble sort on a white board. this is the kind of shits up there who reject your applications.
Self-taught developers tend to have a big lack of proper background knowledge about software engineering, design patterns, architectural trade-offs, etc. which should be a must for real-world projects. That's why companies nowadays ask for your portfolio, Git repository with homebrew projects, technical assignments, etc.
Because they get 5 times more applicants than they have positions?
Literally the answer regardless of what the company is
Nice to hear him give creds to autodidacts.
@7:20 Paid side projects is a good idea to include as part of the interview process. It's a much better way of accessing a developer's overall skill set unlike code tests where you're given a bunch of random questions about a specific language. With paid projects, the employer gets to see not only how you use the language but, also, how you solve problems, how you organize your code, and how you document your code. Whereas a code test is just a memory game so, if there are certain aspects of a language you haven't used in a while and its a normal thing used by the employer, then, you're basically disqualified if you answer the question incorrectly simply because you don't remember. What could happen with a code test is a person who just finished a course in the language could answer the questions flawlessly but, they could also have poor coding habits and/or poor problem solving skills. But, because he was flawless in answering the test questions, the employer decides to hire him and oops... now they end up with a false positive. A paid code project does a lot to help avoid mistakes like that.
Moral of the story, a good developer should be judged based on how he uses software tools to solve a problem not based on how well he remembers the answers to random language specific questions. Its much more cost effective for a company to hire a good developer that can use a reference to refresh his memory than it is to hire a weak developer with a good memory of specific language terms but, has poor software development skills.
DHH has such a good perspective on so many aspects of business. But this is great advice. I think the way you implement this is by trial periods if you can, have them do some work for you and you can see exactly how they perform under real-world conditions. Unfortunately a lot of the business world is stuck in old practices.
Well, first of all they reject applications because they almost never hire.
I'm sorry but...
Cover letters are bullshit.
Does any company reaching for prospective candidates required to write a specific letter to each candidate explaining why it wants to hire him in particular?! The answer is NO.
Then why should an applicant write a personal letter to every company he applies to or takes interest in?!
And just like a company can choose from a multitude of applicants, an applicant can choose from a multitude of companies and positions.
Cover letters are just a stupid bureaucratic formality.
I'll tell more, dude. HR people spend on average 7 seconds to go through a CV. They don't have time to read those short and important points you've wrote about your skills and education on your CV, and they won't have time to read your mini poem you put into your cover letter.
if it's not the CV and not the cover letter, what are they looking at?
Cover letters are a waste of time in 99.9% of the cases
Companies want to hire people that want to work for their company, not people who just want any job
Valueable interview specially at the end where you both commented about the white board test, which is in terms of effectiveness, simply ridiculous. Many thanks. I hope that companies's CEOs listen to this, because good skillful self-taught guys are being wasted everywhere.
Totally agree. Although I like using pseudo code on a white board or some scratch paper. The whole impromptu white board/code test with out giving the person some time to fully digest the problem and design an elegant solution just doesn't work to truly access ones skills.
White board programming is just stupidity to the extreme. Whenever I heard that, I ask myself: should I prepare for the whiteboard programming session or spend the time to build an Mobile or SaaS app and make money real money? I always ended up building and owning more assets that's putting more money into my pocket.
A projected million programming jobs will be unfilled by 2020. But 80% of applicants get rejected... Crazy
Better than throwing the backbone of the modern world to pot
Brian Nock: Better taking 4 weeks to do 4 features properly with two good people than for that process to take 2 weeks with two good and two crappy people, and then fix design mistakes and bugs and correct data for the better part of half a year.
@@webformssuck Wait, but the latter happens anyways so I guess it's a lose lose
80% is a low number. Our firm rejects 90% from all the applicants. Hahaha. Dave surely is generous.
@@scaleyourcode6677 He's obviously too busy hard-screening those idiot job-seeking programmers. Stu[pid programmers need to be rejected; they need to learn humility. BTW who is snickering at the owner of most successful gem written? I hope this company wakes up
This basically translates as 'The amount I like people is proportional to how much they are the same as me.' Very much a young adult male perspective.
s o y
5:28 lol complaining about 15 lines long methods
Yeah, it's odd when successful developers trash talk some aesthetics. Very subjective. Not meaningful.
He didn't complain about 15 line methods, he complained about 15 line methods *that do five different things*
yeah but then again what did he mean by "4 things" I can hardly take anything from this discussion, there is no explicit info, only a bunch of phrases that everybody will get their own way. :s
It would be my dream company but I am not a Ruby person...
what a difference in the use of English for DHH with some years ago. and the moderator is either sleeping or blasted by DHHs personality??
"having the pope over for dinner" lol
so maybe sb's code is *derailed* cos you haven't released some good practices of creating clean code to teach from the beginning how to provide optimal code.
hey Chris..do you think sites like HackerRank and Codility are online versions of a Whiteboard?
+Christophe Limpalair It does make a difference to solve a coding challenge in the comfort of your home..but my experience with those that I consider online Whiteboards are not good. Some companies give you a challenge like "Implement a Binary tree using X and Y" and give you 30 minutes to do that...so I think this doesn't show the applicant's capacity...instead I prefer the project oriented approach where the company give you a little project to work on for a couple of days and then you return back with the result.
+Christophe Limpalair yes you got the point. Unfortunately a lot of companies are using this approach =\
this guy has the hubris to judge other people's code based on indentation and then confesses that he'd fail to write a bubble sort on a white board. this is the kind of shits up there who reject your applications.
Self-taught developers tend to have a big lack of proper background knowledge about software engineering, design patterns, architectural trade-offs, etc. which should be a must for real-world projects. That's why companies nowadays ask for your portfolio, Git repository with homebrew projects, technical assignments, etc.
Even lot of software devs from college don't have that required practical knowledge in topic like design patterns, architectural trade-offs, etc.
Udemy.com