Bad Writers Have Nothing to Say | Robert Mckee | Big Think
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- Опубликовано: 22 апр 2012
- Bad Writers Have Nothing to Say | Robert Mckee
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The biggest mistake that novice screenwriters make is trying to follow what's trendy.
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ROBERT MCKEE:
Robert McKee is a creative writing teacher known particularly for his "Story Seminar," a multi-day screenwriting lecture that he has given at venues all over the world. He is the author of "Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting."
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TRANSCRIPT:
Question: What's the biggest mistake that novice screenwriters make?
Robert McKee: The biggest mistake they will try to make-that they will make-is that they will try to adapt to whatever is trendy. And so they’ll look at the hits, they’ll look at last summer successes, or even the independent films, you know. And I’m sure that after a film like “Boys Don’t Cry” got out, Hollywood was inundated with interesting little small stories of small town characters in some kind of brutal sexual relationships, or whatever. On the other hand, “Avatar” of course and films like that spin loose imitators. And so they will be more concerned about selling than they will about creating, and the attitude often of young writers, or wanna-be writers for the screen is that there is so much shit on the screen, surely my shit is better than their shit. And so, they want to get made, they want success, they want to be in the movie business, and so they will imitate whatever they see, assuming that because of awful stories like “Transformers” get made that they just have to find another toy at Toys R’ Us and imitate that and build a movie around it.
Question: What separates a good screenwriter from a bad screenwriter?
Robert McKee: Well, there are degrees of goodness and badness. And so, it could be a very subtle difference. And in that one, you wouldn’t know. You just wouldn’t. But usually you can tell pretty well. Even if they’ve written 20 screenplays, that doesn’t mean that they have mastered, for example, the craft of exposition. I can pick a screenplay up or a novel, whatever, within a few pages recognize whether or not this writer has a degree of craft, a mastery of craft, to a certain degree at least, simply by noting how they handle exposition. If they handle exposition beautifully, it generally means this is somebody that is really, even though they haven’t been made or produced, or whatever, this is somebody who has thought deeply about the craft and knows how to draw the reader into their story and not tell them and burden them with exposition too soon and too heavy-handedly, but draws it with curiosity and empathy into the story, and indirectly and invisibly as it were, we’re gathering in the exposition that we know, but we’re not conscious of it.
That technique alone requires years of practice. And trial and error. Generally I can tell in the way in which the writer describes what kind of imagination the writer has, at least visual imagination. I can tell within the first dialogue scene of whether or not this writer, even in an action piece has any sense of subtext, or do they write their dialogue on the nose. I mean, there are certain... When people perform in the Olympics, and you have judges sitting there giving them five, six, seven, up to 10, and so forth, what are they looking for? They have ways of judging a performance. Okay? There’s a... Some of it is just sensory, there’s a quality of relaxation in the work, there’s a quality of confidence in the work, there’s a quality of centeredness in the work, and so some of these things are sort of ineffable, but you can judge a performance of figure skating based upon these. Plus, did the blade land at a certain angle? Okay?
And so, it’s the same thing. Writing is a performance, just like figure skating. And I can read it and have a sense, again, of confidence, of control, of precision, of one thing or another. Now, it doesn’t necessarily mean that by the end of the work, I’m going to be wowed. But I can tell from the beginning of the work whether or not the writer has mastered their craft to a certain degree. But that is one thing. But there are lots of people with superb craftsmanship and nothing to say.
Read the full transcript on bigthink.com/videos/bad-write...
'My shit is better than their shit.'
That's a classic.
took me a few replays of that section to understand he was talking from the perspective of *other* writers
"Nothing to say" and "small experience" may sell pretty well if you are a bit lucky. I wrote my first full feature script in 1986, and voila: At ended with a modest budgeted cinema movie. Now I know that I did not know ANYTHING about script writing, and still the movie sold well. So there's no rules. One year after I made another script for a short feature, produced in micro budget, but it won first prize in the IAC London Film Festival 1986. What I try to say: If you guys have guts but no experience: Just go for it! - - Oh, by the way, you find both these movies here in RUclips :-) :-)
+Sverre Årnes Links for them?
One is "Welcome Hiome, Andrew" (4 parts), another "Blucher" (full featere, Norsk Film).
Guts... There's still hope for me!
Brandon Rodriguez Explain?
Congratulations on your success. :-) Not seen your films, but I find it hard to believe that you have nothing to say. You must have a sense of narrative, character etc. You can't win a prize if your story is just an empty husk. He's talking about style over substance. The shallowness of people who want to copy something popular to earn big bucks. Why be a poor imitation of someone else? I would assume that you found something to share that is your own perspective, your own insights, part of your own internal world. Experience isn't necessarily the hours you've spent on a laptop or scribbling with your pencil; it's about life experience, how you see the world, how the world has shaped you. It's fine to be influenced by literature and films we've seen (which of course helps us to get a better sense of what works and what doesn't). I am guessing he's encouraging us to be creative, reflective and bold, sticking to our own inner stories that we need to share - but letting those settle and mature in our minds before committing them to paper.
I love his honesty xD
"A shitty movie, like Transformers"
I hate genre bias, but the truth has to be told. "Transformers" is a shitty movie.
@@eddiejc1 Robert McKee has only had one screenplay made into a movie called _Abraham_ (1994) and that was for TV.
He has no business criticising _Transformers_ when he has made nothing that anyone has ever heard of.
@@____uncompetative That is irrelevant fool. It doesn't matter who he is. What matters is what he said. Transformers is absolutely crap writing.
I've read comic books that are profound. I've read novels by prize-winning authors that are terrible. What McKee needs is perspective. Are most comic books forgettable fluff? Of course. Many are flat-out bad; badly written and poorly illustrated. Comic books are like any art form: 90% is junk (though sometimes well crafted and entertaining junk), 9% is quality, and 1% is excellent. Every once and awhile, lighting strikes, and a work of art transcends excellence and becomes a masterpiece. This happens with comic books the same as with film, literature, music, et al.
Labels are the lazy man's way of looking at art. "Opera is good, pop music is bad, novels are good, comic books are bad". All art is subjective. McKee is trashing an art form he knows nothing about, and sounding very foolish in the process.
(P.S. Spielberg is a hell of a talented director. He often makes films that are pure entertainment, it is true, but choosing to say nothing is not the same as having nothing to say. But then I suspect McKee knows that.)
john finck 9% - that's over generous for comic/graphic books. I keep on hearing about how underrated they are, but when I look at them, most of the "classics" (including Alan Moore) are inferior to decent written novels.
john finck Spielberg can make good films, but he often shoots himself in the foot with mawkish sentimentality (even in the likes of Schindler's List) and commercialism.
Case in point re: comic books (in this case manga): Blame! by Tsutomu Nihei
i love robert mcKee, i suggest you read his book , Story , it takes you through the whole process of writing a great story.
Story was one of the books I had to read when I was in college. I still have it.
"lack of craftsmanship and a lack of insight into life seem to go hand in hand". I think creative writing is a very vague and abstract art to judge by any set rule of standards, like music or dance etc, so I understand why not everyone agrees with robert's musings here. but this particular line is the truth!
I like the way this guy thinks. It definitely applies to all forms of writing--screenplays, novels, short stories, even poetry.
Damn, this guy has a brass pair! Spielberg has "nothing to say" -- I never liked him, but didn't think anyone had the guts to say it in public. Props to McKee!
Spielberg tells great stories. He's a story teller... Not a philosopher
Have you ever seen indiana Jones? The only one with nothing to say here is you.
@@-Teague- indiana Jones isn't a film that explores really anything on a thematic level. He's not concerned with that stuff
You took what he said in the wrong way.
What's ironic is that if you want to say something, you really shouldn't say it at all. Showing is way more conducive to a great story than telling. If the characters have to explain whats going on, in some cases that isn't great storytelling. I've always felt like people wanna use a mass of dialogue like, let's say, Tarantino, but it ends up sounding redundant and out of place with what their films should be about. Exposition ends up getting destroyed in the process.
But sometimes, showing less CAN be more. Even if it involves more talking (which seems like a paradox at first). Look at Reservoir Dogs; the way it filled your imagination with only monologue/dialogue felt amazing. Something that plain old "showing" could rarely accomplish.
Of course, it's like genres. Each writing style introduces shortcomings, so be willing to accept them.
👁️
facepalm. He doesnt mean, writers have nothing to say. Like, no words, or sentences to say. He means SAYING SOMETHING THEMATICALLY. A BELIEF or a STANCE on something, a WORLDVIEW.
@F Inc Thank You. The dude completely missed the point lol
Why is it Mckee is looked up upon as a master writer, he has five screenplays credited to him on IMDB and all of them except one is for a tv series and the last one is for a tv movie, and Spielberg is foremost a director not a writer, even though I would agree to a extend that most of his movies doesn’t have any subtext, but not all movies need to have, it’s fine just to relax once in a while and see a Indiana Jones flick.
the best way to learn how to write is to write
And a bit of reading on the side.
***** That's how Twilight came into being. I don't think dreams are to be trusted.
The best way to learn to write is to read and to read thoroughly
The best way to learn is not to learn from douchbags i think...
The thing is that Spielberg and Shyamalan are very successful in the film industry. They don't have to make pompous speeches to aspiring writers and sell themselves as Gurus because they are too busy doing what McKee claims he knows the secret to. Clearly he doesn't otherwise he'd be doing it. I'd rather listen to writers than someone who is bitter about others who are better than him.
Depends upon your definition of success. If it's making good movies that also make money, then they are pretty much sucking hind teet.
FYI: McKee is also successful in the film industry. Just FYI.
Kevin, did your math teacher in elementary school work as a mathematician? NO? Guess she should have STFU, and not made pompous speeches about numbers, angles, products, etc...
Was your English teacher a published author of success or import? NO? Again, they should have STFU. Right? That's what you said above.
Making money is not a guarantee of quality I grant you, but Spielberg and Shyamalan have a well respected body of work. McKee has had some success but nothing that would hold a candle to those two. Thanks for enlightening me, but a quick look at IMDB shows what level of success he has achieved.
In my case it was a Maths teacher at Primary School, and yes in a way they did work as a mathematician. What they didn't do was tell me that successful mathematicians were no good.
My English Teachers loved teaching us about authors and their works. I cannot think of one of them that told me that Shakespeare or Kipling or HG Wells didn't know what they were doing.
McKee has every right to teach if he wants to, but to say what he does about respected and successful professionals is stupid.
Kevin Broughton You put it perfectly
+Kevin Broughton Thumbs up.
Dustin Marks If my maths teacher would have said "Ramanujan didn't know maths" & if my english teacher said "Shakespeare had nothing to say" then yes I would have said STFU (in my mind)
The best part of writing is that its a self owned business that anyone can start with just a pen, paper and an idea. I use to believe the hardest thing to life was getting started....now I know the hardest thing is to keep going and finishing what you started when writing. I like Mr. McKee's honesty. If you can't handle it on video, then you can't handle the repeated rejection in real life from those that aren't buying into your script. Calluses are proof that you won't quit, we should admire all that have them.
'used to"
I think when you have things to say, you tend to say them and this naturally forces you to learn to articulate well over the years. That's why they go hand in hand! That's how it feels to me anyway.
Yes.
"M. Night Sugarman or whatever his name is..." LOL
Sugarman!
M NIGHT SUGARMAN hahaha
***** Or as Tarantino calls him: M. Night Shamalamadingdong.
***** excuse me, i can pronounce his name perfectly. M Night Shiamalamadingdong. so there.
bravo sir bravo, hand me some broads to destroy
Honestly, I prefer "M. Night Shat-upon".
I died when he said that.
Good writing advice! Too bad so many people here are over-sensitive comic book fans who get distracted with butthurt over a throw-away comment to listen to what this guy is saying.
I can tell within the first few minutes of a video whether or not the speaker is full of himself...
I can tell in the first few words of a comment... oh nevermind...
Exactly
still a good speaker ;)
...best comment here...
So what's your opinion? To me, this guy just sounds like he's extremely familiar with what he does.
Sorry sir, but I think you'd be surprised by what a comic book may have to say.
+Kirk Peterson yeah that was a stupid comment that was more like diarrhea of the mouth.
+Kirk Peterson Uh, no.
+Kirk Peterson I think you might be right. Often the people confuse movie business's adaptation of the comic book stories, versus the original.
The Death of Silver Surfer for example, I know for sure Fantastic Four 2 has utterly raped the story by their vague interpretation of the rich story that the Silver Surfer is. If anything, the comic book story of Death of the Silver Surfer is better than 80% of the movies out there. Because that story said a lot of things that's hard for a normal movies to bring out with rich character development (Really, ALL character development).
But I think what he meant was that, most movies are pretty much shit compare to the comics that's based off of. That's probably why it comes off like shit.
Avatar was a glorified Dances with the Wolves.
Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin is an excellent example. Jason Todd's story arc opens up the kind to ask question wether we should kill or not, etc.
*mind
Thanks for uploading this video. I've just finished writing my first novel a few days ago and am working on the first revisions now. I've tried to make something as original as I possibly could and hopefully things will work out.
how'd it go?
*pauses video*
looks up exposition
says, "That makes sense."
*hits play*
I didn't look it up until afterwards.
To be fair, Sixth Sense was a very good screenplay. It wasn't high art and didn't have insights into life but within the realms of the genre requirements it was perfect. It wasn't particularly good because of its ending but because the story was pretty original and made a very cohesive journey overall. It has its great moments.
Brain Cox did a phenomenal job portraying McKee in "Adaptation."
On a completely irrelevant note, Go Blue! (McKee is a UM alumnus).
I remember as an architectural student I was trying to "solve" problems of design in ways I thought worked well, at least to me. Other students who have since gone on to be "succesful" were trying to find solutions that some famous architects had arrived at for similar problems. I thought they were poseurs - but who cared what I thought. Their work was flashy and fooled everyone. Nobody seemed to care that it was fake.
Never underestimate the superficiality of so called expert taste.
Sir, you had me at "M. Night Shamalayan... cartoon mind, comic book mind." Thank you just for saying that - but also for all of the rest.
I can’t say I agree with most everything he says but I’m literally laughing out loud because he is just so funny.
This was awesome!! Great information. Thanku. 🌺
People know who Spielberg and M. Night Shyamalan. Sixth Sense and Unbreakable, spot on story, other films. meh, but it was the riveting story of Sixth Sense that got him noticed. Jurassic Park, Schiendler's List... These were powerful stories. Nobody knows who this guy is.
what does he think about "stop or my mom will shoot?"
Another screenwriting expert with almost no credits.
another comment by a nobody with no credits
@@yasskass89 Lol that doesn't change his point though
Actually he was a screenwriting instructor at a college who taught future Emmy and Academy award winners. So check your facts before you decide to be disrespectful.
@@-Teague- Mckee himself is making a commentary that's full of disrespectful jibes. He needs to make his points about Spielberg, M. Night etc. (which are completely valid) in a respectful manner, otherwise he attracts disrespectful comments in return.
@@-Teague- Precisely. Those who can't do, teach.
"M. Night. Shugerman... or whatever his name is..." hahahahahahahahhahaha
It irks me when people who have probably never read a comic book, dismiss them out of hand as worthless crap, and in doing so belittles the work of the thousands of hard-working artists and writers who have created some of the world's most iconic characters ever. Where's your Superman, Mr. McKee? It's snobbery. Tuppences looking down on pennies. A total lack of understanding of the cultural value of comics, a unique, vibrant, rich American cultural phenomenon. They cannot be compared to literary fiction. Comic books are a wholly different art form, with all that that implies. If he wanted to give an example of poor writing he should have had the balls to names names and be specific. The local bookstore is simply heaving with utter garbage. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, chick lit, everything in the spiritual section, TV tie-ins, take your pick.
Comic books are usually for mentally underdeveloped, unstable young men.
I can't believe you are defending that dreck. That's like defending fast food.
I defend all art with equal vigour. It's all good, surely, or do you tear up your children's finger paintings and throw them in the bin? Perhaps not equally as important and certainly not equally valuable in strict commercial terms. I suspect you haven't read many comic books. The majority is garbage, and then there's TALES FROM THE CRYPT, WATCHMEN, THE SANDMAN, MAUS etc. Do you listen to pop music or classical? TV or theatre? Ballet or kids body-popping on the street corner? You must have very high standards up there as you look down on all of us mentally underdeveloped types.
Siddhartha King +sean mc connell.
Don't be a snob.
I don't know how people judge what's art. I know that if someone went and started talking about emotion or an ability to uplift someone (which sounds pretentious when discussing most artwork), then I would point them to just a few panels to help show how comics can be art even with Superman.
The few panels that made me a loyal fan of Superman: s684.photobucket.com/user/haven_bucket/media/1245822166636.jpg.html?t=1246328571
TheYpurias
Grow up.
"Steven Spielberg has superb craftsmen ship but nothing to say."
I completely disagree with this.
+DullTorpedoFilms 8 writing credits and 85 producer credits. Spielberg is an amazing filmmaker.
Jim Miles Writing and filmmaking are not separate. I don't know what your point is.
Jim Miles There are writer directors in hollywood if I'm not mistaken.
He doesn't seem to know how much one can 'say' nonverbally. Spielberg has that down to a fine art.
This guy seems to be an expert on writing. He should write some novels and let us decide how good he is. It's real easy to read someone's work and have opinions on it over a warm cup of tea. Its another thing to start a project from scratch and make something that people will like
There is value that comes from the neutrality of not being the creator.
For example, I tend to master/remaster other people's songs better than I do my own. You get used to your own style, so your own editing tends to warp around that.
It's why they hire editors. So they can get an independent opinion on the writing before it's published and let out the door.
You sound like a butt hurt writer. I think this guy knows a little more than you do, friend.
YN9204 He writes about film. So wrong genre.
its very hard to put into words abstract ideas and images that can only be conceived in your own mind, to master that is no easy task, and do it in a way that people can understand you and empathyze with the story is even harder.
I agreed on part of what he said at the beggining, but a person who says something like "a cartoon mind, a comic book mind" as something negative loses my respect right away, that way of thinking is archaic and not relevant at all in this century.
No: your thinking is archaic; it's prehistorical. If you think comic books are intellectually stimulating, you're a shallow dope.
It's analogous to popular music or young adult novels. They can be excellent, thought provoking mediums, but often they're not fully realized as such. That leaves them to be merely popcorn entertainment and sales figures for publishing houses and record labels. I don't like how he worded the comment, but it's a valid point.
Pat of me really likes what McCay has to say here. But I don't like his name- calling on Spielberg and Shyamalan. To be honest, I've loved many Spielberg movies -- albeit more as a director than as a writer. But "Chose Encounters" and "Poltergeist" are still pretty good entertainment, And Shyamalan... I still love Shyamalan's "The Sixth Sense." Found it brilliant.
Perhaps these writers do not "knock my socks off" the way that an edgier film does -- for instance "Pulp iction," which did -- but come on.
I believe it's spelled, Sugarman.
lol "comic book mind". Clearly this guy has never heard of Alan Moore.
skreedom222 Alan Moore is a back street occultist who thinks he is a far greater artist and writer than he actually is.
Anon B
His Halo Jones is fantastic. Better than Watchmen.
Thank you, sir. Very much. A good story will burn it's way out of you, or kill you at last.
You know, I question this guys competence... he says some director has "a comic book mind" and therefore implying he has "nothing to say"... so again, genre bias? Does this old fart not realize a lot of superhero comics have great depth and meaning? They're flashy and often accesible to children to understand the basics but the subtext reaches to all ages.
> You know, I question this guys competence...
No, we didn't. Not sure why we needed the preamble.
> he says some director has "a comic book mind" and
> therefore implying he has "nothing to say"
There was NOTHING implied. McKee stated it right out. He's right about M. Night Shyamalan. He's got CRAFT, and he has nothing to say.
YOU on the other hand INFERRED a connection that was not there. YOU INFERRED a comment that was not made.
Based upon your response, it sounds like you are big comic book fan, and felt slighted. You then attacked an expert whose ideas you did not comprehend.
You rounded off your diatribe of hate with an invective that quite frankly proved your own ignorance of all subjects discussed.
Dustin Marks Chill man, the guy might be a excellent writer but shitting on somebody else Its not very nice and it make him look overly arrogant
+Dustin Marks Lol. The information the connects evidence to a conclusion is an assumption, not an inference and he said both things. An inference follows directly from a conclusion. Be weary of one of the most important rules of writing: If you can replace a complex sentence with a simpler one, do so. You could have just said he was insulting. You just sound arrogant and all that does is irritate the reader and obscure your point.
inneralpha I do think, however, that it is pertinent whether we distinguish between the inference of which is both distinguishable and indistinguishable. If we cannot conclude our own assumptions, of whereby no inference takes place, how can we even admit to our own compulsive, comporary ideas?
It is my belief, that a writer, whether good or bad, has any audacity to distinguish between the assumptions and conclusions which are by default already compulsive.
+Linkenski Lol whatever you say....
I have the notes from the class that he taught at MGM during the late 70s, early 80s. The class notes are way better than anything he puts out today.
M Night Sugarman! 😂
I have watched this multiple times since the beginning of 2017 and that whole Sugarman thing still gets me every time.
I think I find with my writing that the craft may not always be there or done as well as it could've been, but I find that I have the imagination and I have interesting viewpoints on characters. I try to focus on human behaviour within whatever I write and tend to focus on character expansion through a decent enough plot. It's not so much my story ideas that I'm weak on, but more so the style in which I write - which is really annoying because I'd love to become an author. It seems however that maybe I'm not skilled enough in expression. So, I think I have one aspect but not so much the other :/
+Alisx Lisx Keep writing.
The exposition is the portion of a story that introduces important background information to the audience; for example, information about the setting, events occurring before the main plot, characters' back stories, etc.
so how does one learn/develop how to have something to say? thoughts?
High critical and creative powers seldom arise in the same person.
I think M. Night Sugarmon was quite good at one point. I thought Unbreakable was excellent and had quite a lot to say. Won't defend anything he made post-Signs though.
+Swag Ali Entertainment
You should not even defend signs, just rewatch it. and the conclusion how bad it is. Heck maybe just watch the nostalgia critics review of it.
@@NathanWubs I recently rewatched signs after always hating it, and realized it’s about belief/faith/etc. It’s everywhere in the film.
If you stop believing that the _’aliens’_ are extra terrestrials, as the characters in film assume due to their modern sensibilities, and consider the possibility that they’re demons _(or a sign)_ then the film makes a lot more sense.
It makes absolutely no sense if you think it’s about aliens.
I understand that he's a teacher, however still, I'd like to read something that he wrote. Not about the topic of writing but one of his stories.
Four quadrants:
A. Good craftsmanship and insight
B. Good craftsmanship, no insight
C. Bad craftsmanship with insight
D. Bad craftsmanship, no insight
A is special when you come by it and the ideal to strive for. B is pretty common, tends to make the most money. C could use some outside help and polish, not too common, the kind of thing that might produce a cult classic. D is probably the most common, just stuff that isn’t worth much, although there’s cult followings in this quadrant too.
Spielberg, nothing to say! Really?
I don't know, maybe. I would have to think about this one.
Schindlers list and saving private ryan both seemed as if they had something to say. But that just me :)
His biggest problem is that he only focus on the story side of art but art is more
than simply a story. His theory is good but usually an art is a whole thing, for example,
film is a mix of story and pictures so his theory suffers certain limitations. But he is certainly great.
It would seem Spielberg does have something to say, he just keeps saying it over and over. Can anyone guess? Family. Family, family, family, family, family. We get it, man. Ease up.
Guess you arent old enough to watch his more mature works
Hollywood doesn't create relevant new genres often, but they put out new movies every week.
I am totally convinced that people don't like M. Night Shyamalan because they can't yet grasp the concepts that he is portraying. He has more meaningful, spiritual, and intellectual points in his movies than many and most directors and show runners. The village portrayed elders of a community systematically controlling their people. This was fueled by guilt, ignorance, and fear... and the twist was that it was happening in this day and age.
Tiersa32 YES!!! I see Shyamalan as a Kubrick of sorts. Hidden in plain sight. I can watch his movies over and over and see something new each time. They are multilayered and have profound messages. When I first saw The Happening I thought it was the stupidest movie I'd ever seen. I didn't get it. Now that I get it, every year when allergy season starts, and the winds blow the pollens, I think back on that movie. There's a profound message in it about how we treat our planet, nature, and in turn, how much power and control our natural environment truly has over us. Boy, do we take it for granted! And then on another level, how we can take a psychotropic medication that potentially can stop suicidal thoughts, or cause suicidal thoughts. What we put in our bodies, whether that be by mouth, through breathing, through skin, etc. can affect us, our thoughts, our reality, and ultimately, our behaviors. I could go on and on because every single one of his movies has multilayered and profound implications that most people seem to miss entirely. It's as if they watch with their brains off- zombies, expecting to be purely entertained, or looking only at the surface of a storyline, never asking the deeper questions. I saw a poster in a window of a fast food restaurant today, promoting fresh avocados in their food. A little circle on the bottom said, "hand grown". We see that and our unconscious mind thinks, 'oh, fresh', and we make a judgement that fresh is better, so must be good. Who observes in full consciousness, and asks, 'what does "hand grown" even really mean?' It's a trick, and it effectively works. I think Shyamalan is using the same sort of techniques, except that his messages are meant for people who are conscious, rather than as in the advertising industry, who is using subliminal messages geared towards the subconscious. Brilliant! And so, so underestimated. I think maybe my favorite is Unbreakable. A true student, who listens closely and watches carefully will see an obvious progression, evolution, in Shyamalan's own journey, from his first movie to his last. Watch them in order sometime. Even his first one, Wide Awake. I mean, hello??! WIDE AWAKE. And it's a great movie!
The Writer's Muse thank you for proving to me that there are people out there who get it! When I first "woke up", if you will, and started realizing what was really going on, it blew me away at how many 'hints' are in our commercialized, pop culture. From my favorite movies to favorite music (even from the 80's and 90's), they were trying to elude toward a deeper spiritual and intellectual teaching and concept. Why would the Wizard of Oz to the Matrix to Inception be trying to convey almost religious notions? How did I ignore it for so long? And how are people ignoring it now?
YES, Kubrick is a favorite of mine. It's funny to hear just how many people thought The Shining was the dumbest fucking movie ever, and then after watching it again 2 years, 8 year, 10 years later they finally gained an appreciation for its genius. He was known to have studied subliminal messaging before making that movie in 1980, which is so telling of his forward thinking. Most people have glazed over eyes when I rant about these topics.. I think we need to be friends The Writer's Muse!!!!! lol and please don't get me started on the synthetic world we are creating. They will be telling amazing stories of the Fall of the American Empire, if we keep industrializing our natural world as we are!
"Bad writers worry more about selling than about creating"---and yet, that is exactly what's sickly wrong with the studios' executives: they want a new twist on the formula that sold yesterday, and nothing to do with something they actually have to read and understand on its own terms before they can market it to the public, whom they stupidly and lazily think of as chumps. "Shit is what the public wants"---oh really? And when the fuck did you ever ASK?
Oh, I've seen plenty of bad writers with something to say. It's just not as interesting to the rest of us as it is to them (Harry Potter fanfic "My Immortal" comes to mind). But yeah, you can tell in those first few pages just how skilled a writer is.
"comic book mind"
Go tell that to Art Spiegelman. Or Will Eisner. Or David Mazzucchelli. Or the entire nation of France
I always thought The Remains of the Day should have won the Oscar, not Schindler's List.
Nope. "Schindler's List" was the better film. One of the few times the Academy has been right about Best Picture.
Edward J. Cunningham It was a feel-good movie, at the end of the day. A good movie, but still too... well, too Spielberg. TRotD had no clear goodies and baddies, and also no baddies who turned out to be good or such cheap stuff, but morally and psychologically complex characters. Schindler also had that, but to a lesser and more two-dimensional Hollywood extent.
What movie(s) did McKee work on as a screenwriter?
A movie called 20 dates that has a 36% on rotten Tomatoes and that’s it
I'm great at exposition, right big sister?
Yes, little brother, you have been ever since the house fire that left us orphaned on the streets of Chicago!
The commentator laughed out loud in a hyperbolic manner internally before releasing but the cutest of giggles before replying to this insight.
He knew it was cute because his mother told him he had a cute giggle. And as such, he took comfort in knowing that the irony laden within this message allowed him to convey a meaning that could have been...
🤣
...just as easily
This was really helpful
Search "Seinfeld - The Nothing Pitch" on RUclips (this one is a sketch) and "Jerry Seinfeld on How to Write a Joke" (also on RUclips) this one is where Jerry Seinfeld talks about writing about something that means nothing. I had also added Larry David, because he and Jerry Seinfeld were the ones who had created the sitcom Seinfeld.
I know it isn't really "nothing", but I hope you get my point.
i have his book. Only a bitter critic who himself has nothing to say. just that people should choose more, and learn their craft. True, but it is like those killers who try to gain fame by killing someone famous. he is trying to gain fame, by bad mouthing everyone, and blocking everyones' inspiration.
This is the 3rd Robert Mckee video and he is indeed an interesting, direct, informative screenwriter, including his review of of some overrated directors with nothing to say.
He's not a screenwriter.
Well, I'm starting to get better ratings on my work, short stories, but I struggle with novels. I don't pace them right, and my exposition is lacking on longer works. I'm not giving up, but I'm studying other people's work at the moment. Then we'll begin again, or I will -- with my characters.
Interesting advice, especially about exposition.
A few fair points but mostly seems like a lot of hot air to be honest. What I always find interesting about these "writing seminar" types is that they have a lot to say about other writers but never have anything notable to back up anything they say.
I'm not going to lie. There's a lot of people shitting on McKee who probably haven't read "Story" but have read up on the fact that he's a failed screenwriter.
But the way I look at it, this guy failed so that anyone trying to get into film or storytelling as a career has someone who's tried and failed to learn from. I like Ebert as a critic, and I've done so with the full knowledge that Ebert wasn't a director or screenwriter or cinematographer etc.
I think our brains are just hard wired to fill in the patterns of comfort. He shat talked Spielberg and Sugarman (lol wtf). Its not a fact, its an opinion. He used the term comic book mind in a derogatory way. But as many people mentioned, either he's read comic books that have depth and failed to mention them in order to convey that hyperbolic rant he's going for. Or, he's not aware of comic books' potential as a medium for storytelling.
Either way, its weird how the people who noticed these statements don't wholly disagree with the spirit of the message. They disagree with the messenger. I love comic books, and I follow my favorite writers avidly. And hes not wrong when he states how bad writers have nothing to say. And I think it feels even more genuine coming out of the mouth of a bad writer.
Could you imagine if every time an english teacher began their lesson they started with a self deprecating monologue of how they never got into the NY Times Bestselling list? It's unnecesary.
201X, the death of implication via misplaced hurt feelings
M. Night Sugerman ... Or whatever his name is... LMFAO!!! It's true too!
Can we also say that bad writers are sometimes trying to say too much?
I disagree. Bad writers have plenty to say. The pity is...they haven't learned to say it effectively which cheats us all. Which is why most authors like colleague Stephen King empahsis the need to learn your craft, perfect your craft. Writers only get to be better writers by doing. If you shut them down they will never learn how to become a better writer. We have bad auto mechanics, lawyers, but they still make a far better living than writers and some of them never learn to become anything but mediocre. If you are a writer and love to write...you owe it to yourself to perfect your craft. There are readers out there who are longing to hear from you.
"Comic book mind, got nothing to say" - that's not a fair way to talk about comic books. Many of them have great, human stories. But I see his point.
Well, when you belong to a world where your writing is your product, usually you need to have ´´things to say´´ and by that i think he means new visions of the world, observations, tones, visuals, just ideas that sound new even if they are not. When you watch or read tarantinos intro´s you get hooked because the guy is saying something you havent heard before, woody allen, but those examples are to obvious, someone like alexander payne or david o russell I think are examples to follow
The most important aspect of writing a story is the characters. I could create three characters, pick any setting, any time period, etc. and the core story would always be, generally, the same. There must be a central plot, don't just jump from scene to scene, write an outline first.
Dialogue is important as well. Usually when I'm writing, I say the lines that I write and judge how they sound and the flow of it all Just a tip. Writing is not rocket science. It is like a puzzle, you start with one piece and build upon it. Writing is creative and imaginative, there is no right or wrong way to do it. But when were talking about screenwriting, things like lighting, music, camera angles, cast, actors chemistry, etc. is just as important as the screenplay. You can have the best idea, but it can be the worst film, and vice versa.
I find that just jamming theoretical jargon in there during a critical situation is a good replacement for exposition.
Instead of explaining how the gear works, you demonstrate it.
Captain: _"I need those rail guns online and those impulse drives primed! Fire!"_
Then you show the missile getting fired with fusion, then driven by magnetic rail (complete with sparks for show), and then *FOOM*! Rocket.
Gunner: _"Tracking... Mach 40... Tracking... Mach 45... Enemy has deployed countermeasures... Tracking... HIT! Mach 53."_
Captain: _"Fire the next one on my mark..."_
They did a lot of show don't tell in Alien and Aliens and it's part of why those movies were so good.
I remember Tarantino saying that something along the lines of, wanting to use verbs as opposed to describing words. You don't want to describe and spell things out,
Mr Anderson
I like it. That's so concise and correct.
I have to remember that. Verbs over adjectives.
Let the set designers handle the adjectives.
What an honest, honest man!
AS THIS JOURNEY I TOOK WITH THIS MAN UPS DOWNS GOOD TIMES BAD TIMES IT WAS THE BEST OUT MY WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE I LOVE THIS MAN LIKE A BESTFR IEND A HUSBAND ANYTHING YOU COULD NAME I KEEP ASKING MYSELF CAN WE MAKE THE BEST OUT OF IT I AINT PERFECT N HE WASNT EITHER WE JUST HAVE OUR DIDNT AGREEMENTS ON THING N AS A RELATIONSHIP IT GOES BOTH WAYS I KNO HE TIRED BUT DONT BE TIRED NA IT AINT NUN WORST THEN LOSING Someone YOU LOVED SO BAD AND LET IT SLIP AWAY WEN WE HAD OUR REALLY BAD TIME I TOOK HIM
Wow, Ernest Borgnine looks great in this video. Did he do it just before he died?
+Robert Davis LOL
i think he's spot on about Spielberg. my problem with shamylan is the opposite, sometimes i feel he has a lot to say, but cannot coat it in enough sugar to help the medicine go down. he just smacks you over the head with the moral. still prefer him to Spielberg though as Spielberg is just a load of gloss in most of his films (couple of exceptions) one step up from Bay. And when Spielberg does make a movie that means something, the critics always tear it to shreds.
Writing is a craft and anyone can learn to do it, but if you have nothing to say, do something else. Unfortunately no one told me and I had to learn the hard way.
George Lucas said this about Star Wars. In the 1980s there was a lot of science fiction films with space ships & blasters etc…
I read Robert Mckee's book Story three times. It was educational.
Strange that he says that Spielberg has nothing to say since he quotes "Jaws" several times in his book "Story"
What does exposition mean?
Spielberg has nothing to say? Schindler’s List? Rings a bell? I respect McKee a lot but his statement on Spielberg seemed indigestible. That's why many great writer-directors shun these Film Analysts and Pundits.
Its a very Schopenhauer-esque vision of bad writers. I read a book where he says "goods writers think to write. bad writers writes to think."
Yeah, M. Night Sugarman is a fine director LOL :D
So, a guy who only wrote a forgetful miniseries and worked as "consultant" in Barbie animated movies, dismiss Spielberg and comics as art form to give advice as guru in writing. Hilarious.
ehunt34 he is a Bill Maher.. it’s a new turn for people who thinks they are smart, clever and better then everyone else.. but have nothing to show for it .. !
To be fair to this guy, I think he's got a point. It's very easy to see things on TV that are popular but are crap, and think, "Gosh, I can make stuff better than this in my sleep." But if you have nothing valuable to say, what you make will also be crap. Maybe a little less crap than what you saw, but still.
Well said, sir.
tap into your own vision and stop caring what people think of you, period :)
Today's Hollywood has very few great storytellers in its ranks.
I was almost tuning him out because I thought he hadn't understood that craft doesn't mean substance, until he pointed out that it was possible to be great at the craft and have nothing to say like Spielberg. Next step might be Tolstoy, who said art is a feeling felt and transmitted.
learn the guy's name please. it's not sugarman...
Like seriously?
If someone loves to write and has nothing to say that doesn't make him a bad writer, no one decides who's a good writer and who's a bad one.
Exactly. Like George Martin. 😂
Fuck off
@@theM4R4T eat ass toxic mushroom !
Lol, right. Martin’s got great ideas and is a great world builder but his but I can name several writers who are a million times better than him.
OMG! M. Night Sugarman! (5:09)
Nice!
All of these claims, and yet we have Nicholas Sparks.
Oooooo I love his Spielberg hot take! I totally agree. His movies are competent and can be entertaining, but there's no there there.
This man has been added to my list of heroes.