I preferred system settings in grid view, because I can memorize the placement of the icons, while in list view, it's like in a cell phone - there are layers within layers, and you see only one. My memory is short, so when I jump into one panel, I forgot what was on the previous one, so I frantically click through various options, trying to find what I need, and I can never remember when things are, unless I use them very often. There was no such issue in grid view. For me, lack of grid view is a regression. However, I understand that it had to be done. Still, I hope that at some point, the qml grid view will be created.
I feel like a mixture of both is a great way to do it. Even Microsoft determined that back way back. A more generic menu with only a few options is easier for users to access, though it can also be annoying for power users
I didn't know the grid view even existed, but I wish they never removed it; it looked good and simple, and much better than digging through the labyrinth of menus that is now KDE's settings app..
Might be easy to make a retro settings app for KDE, I've seen distros do thier own in different ways. Just make links to settings windows in your own layout.
I don't understand. Can you explain me why grid view should be any different? There are also layers within layers, but you can't see other options while you are in them. So it has a worse overwiev. To know where a menu is located doesn't help you with sub menues and where each option is in. So you also have to frantically click through various menues to find an option you can't remember (or you can just type and search it at the top). If I can customise so many things, then too many symbols will just clutter the display and they are more difficult to read (columns and rows instead of just columns). That is one big reason why I hate nearly every car UI, because they have dozens of big symbols and you have to swipe through them. There is absolutely no overwiev. Tesla on the other side uses menues like those lists from Plasma. I see every menu at one glance, have a home menu with most useful stuff combined and can also search for anything with typing a few letters. You can memorize the options only from their position? I would only remember a few (which is also the case in list view) and still have to read. If this point was not an exaggeration on your part, I would like to award this single plus point to grid view. However, you still have to relearn them for Plasma 6 and had to for some versions in Plasma 5, because the menus change in terms of where they belong and more options are added.
You guys are awesome, both of you! I love Plasma and use it since day one. I hated Plasma 4, loved Plasma 3. 5 is great, I truly hope 6 will be good ...
That is interesting, I really loved Plasma 4. I still make my KDE look and feel as close to Plasma 4 as possible. Maybe because I got started with Plasma 4 and it felt so futuristic at that time and nostalgia hits hard.
Budgie (that uses a lot of gnome stuff) feels more complete than gnome. It just so happens that Budgie out of the box is pretty close to the way my Plasma setup is. I had no idea there was a grid view in Plasma, lol.
Yeah, I only discovered it shortly before the talk and I wondered why this wasn't the default. Now I myself prefer the current layout, but I also see the problems that any "normie" user could have with it.
Yet both in this video modify KDE to be more like Gnome. That's because Gnome spends a lot of time thinking about how it will be used, and they get it right. If you don't like it, extend it.
@@max_im_ummaybe, but so many people make the same mistake that it's impossible to tell. I am not a Gnome dev, I find their community standards intolerable.
@@shaunpatrick8345 I strongly disagree. There is maybe one, ONE distro that ships GNOME as the developers intend without customizing it with extensions left and right and that is Fedora (hardly a surprise, right?). Everyone else have figured out a long time ago that vanilla GNOME does not cater to the average user and thus make the required modifications to make GNOME suitable to most people. Have you ever noticed how every iteration of GNOME seems to spawn a different desktop based on GNOME technologies but not GNOME Shell itself (MATE, Cinnamon, Unity, Pantheon, Budgie, the list goes on)? Whereas there is only _ONE_ KDE Plasma, that's powerful and flexible enough to be molded like GNOME if it comes to that. Let that sink in for a second.
I wish I could install more themes on Bazzite the normal way instead of having to download and install them manually so that is the one area I wish for improvement in Plasma 6.
I like KDE but they do make some weird ux design. My go to way to explain what bothers me with KDE ux design is changing the background on the desktop, sddm and the lock screen. The first time I changed background I thought it was broken because sometimes sddm showed me my new background and sometimes it didn't it took me a few frustrating weeks to figure out that there was a lock screen separate of sddm. I don't know the solution to these problems but to ME it just plain confusing.
Mhh, I guess this might be a bit challenging to decide since we would need to factor in multi-user desktops. But I feel like by default it should always display your wallpaper on your lock screen unless told otherwise. For the login screen in general, maybe it can stay the current way, but it should also be considered
the theme downloading should be in discover - something about downloading stuff from the settings app *feels* insecure, clunky, and just asking for technical debt.
I thought I was the only one setting up plasma to mimic Gnome style workflows. It always feels silly... why not just use Gnome? Well, even though Plasma is a bit jankier, I like that I don't have to "Extend" it to make the changes that interest me. I like having different wallpapers on my monitors, taskbar applets, a floating panel, and activities. I can get Gnome to function this way too, but it is heavily extended at that point and things break after a while and you have to find new extensions and live with the knowledge that your desktop is user-modded. I also like that KDE is gaming-mindful and openly supports the gaming use-case.
6:38 There is EU regulation 2019/882 which manifests as BFSG in Germany. Starting 28. June 2025, accessibility is mandated in a lot more, including computer operating systems (and thus of course desktop environments). I wonder if KDE e. V. could get sued for making accessibility worse for something that millions use just cause "uh we want to get rid of old framework thing".
I don't see Open Source projects as a target, as literally anyone could change it with a fork. Microsoft or Apple on the other hand make it way more difficult
@@MichaelNROH Yeah, likely not for some time. But they do have a responsibility regardless of that. I would say that the crucial part for that is that they have a big userbase; that they are relevant. It's not a niche project of some random unknown people that clearly indicates that they just want to publish whatever they like. They have a well known e. V. which is a juristic person that is actionable and they have clear goals, even certifications for some software ("Grüner Engel für Software" ecology certification for Okular for example).
@@muellerhans That's a fair point. I would hope that since they have a bit more funding than your average open source project that they'd not create problems like that and fix them a bit faster when they crop up, but I guess time will tell on that one. It annoyed me when they took out the flipswitcher, and that's not even an accessibility feature, but presumably they're bringing it back and maybe it'll be more efficient than before. Perhaps such accessibility features will be the same.
The removal of a "redundant” view has nothing whatsoever to do with barrier-free access. Else you could sue anyyone, because every system I'm not used to is "complicated and bad"!
9:17 If you want more new people installing KDE neon your priority should be discover. Also create more optional system installations and not having it forced to people(e.g. KDE connect)
At 5:48, how you got this blue-green color transition like on the hamburger menu? Is this new to Plasma 6 or already possible with Plasma 5, and can you combine it with color changing from background?
I love the customisation of KDE, maybe I'm old now, but apparently I now prefer not to customize my DE. I've been using Fedora for the last year and running vanilla Gnome has reignited my enthusiasm for Linux as a desktop environment. I've been using MacOS for work for the last 6 years, Windows for gaming/personal things but have, for the last year, seen Gnome as the main environment I spend my time on - for work and play. The only times I boot into my Windows partition is to 1) fill out a PDF form 2) play certain specific games 3) VR experiences 4) the file manager is superior on Windows so anything involving a lot of file management I do from Windows Linux is still a bit janky but being bombarded with Gnome updates since 4x makes me feel excited as I see the project progress. I'm starting to get close to recommending Linux as a daily driver for non enthusiasts - though I normally recommend KDE for people who come from a Windows background given Gnome can be jarring for people familiar with Windows The good thing about Gnome is I think it has great potential to be a zero config DE that is consistent - making it a potential great entry point for newcomers to Linux.
I respectfully disagree. There is maybe one, ONE distro that ships GNOME as the developers intend without customizing it with extensions left and right and that is Fedora (hardly a surprise, right?). Everyone else have figured out a long time ago that vanilla GNOME does not cater to the average user and thus make the required modifications to make GNOME suitable to most people. Have you ever noticed that every iteration of GNOME seems to spawn a different desktop based on GNOME technologies but not GNOME Shell itself (MATE, Cinnamon, Unity, Pantheon, Budgie, the list goes on)? Whereas there is only ONE KDE Plasma, that's powerful and flexible enough to be molded like GNOME if it comes to that. Let that sink in for a second.
@DavidAlsh Have you tried to use Okular to fill out forms? There've been a few times where I've needed to fill out a tax form and Okular actually worked. Everything looks weird on screen, but when it was printed off it was perfect.
Plasma's system settings are a mess compared to other desktops, even Windows 10's and 11's . As much as I enjoy using that desktop a new to me bug that curses Dolphin to fill up all swap on my machines as of late until they crash (which might as well be an openSuSE Tumbleweed related issue), I always have to look for certain settings I'd expect elsewhere because sometimes things hide beneath one place and in later releases of Plasma in another. Still not sold on the Wayland first vision either since I still have software in use which only functions properly using X but as long as some distro keeps the Xorg session around (yes, Fedora, you died to me without ever being an option in the first place), I am relaxed about the upcoming release of Plasma 6.
@@CristianoGuadagnino Browsing the file system. When browsing the file system Dolphin would just stop to show contents and rather just hang until it gets killed or the RAM is used up to 100% which curses a full system crash.
@@MegaManNeo Maybe it's OpenSuSE. I'm on Slackware and do not see that bug at all. In fact, since upgrading to 15 I've seen less RAM usage overall. It's kind of weird because on 14.2 I'd get up to 10 or 11GB of RAM used up in no time flat, but since the upgrade it hardly ever gets up to 5GB.
Ok but can I please change the default drag nd drop behavior in dolphin k thnx Edit: I don’t want it to ask me. Just move the file! If I wanted to copy and paste it or create a link I would right click on it!
@@niccoloveslinux I am aware there are alternative ways of doing it. That doesn’t change my preference for the default behavior. I don’t want to have to hold a keyboard key to trigger what I expect to happen. The point of using KDE or even Linux for that matter is freedom and customization. I get that it’s not what everyone cares about, but it’s the one thing holding me back from using KDE. I wouldn’t even mind if the method of changing the default behavior was complex, just please an option. It’s also irritating for new users, who expect certain things to work like their previous experience on MacOS / Windows. Every major desktop operating system (including Linux based ones like chromeOS, or even other desktop environments like gnome or cinnamon) default to moving files as the default option. KDE is the only one out of touch. It’s fine when you have a behavior that’s quirky! However in my opinion, when the main allure as a desktop environment is customization, it’s super dumb to not have an OPTION to change it. If I wanted to be annoyed by idiosyncrasies of my software and “just get used to it” because I have no choice, I would just use gnome :/ Thanks for coming to my TED talk lmao Since you are here, I really love all the hard work you’ve put in to making KDE super awesome and fresh! I love your RUclips content, and the ability to incorporate your competition’s strengths / copy what they are doing well, just shows how much you care about making KDE the best it can possible be! So thanks for that
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mV5bGIswTtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I preferred system settings in grid view, because I can memorize the placement of the icons, while in list view, it's like in a cell phone - there are layers within layers, and you see only one. My memory is short, so when I jump into one panel, I forgot what was on the previous one, so I frantically click through various options, trying to find what I need, and I can never remember when things are, unless I use them very often. There was no such issue in grid view. For me, lack of grid view is a regression. However, I understand that it had to be done. Still, I hope that at some point, the qml grid view will be created.
I feel like a mixture of both is a great way to do it. Even Microsoft determined that back way back.
A more generic menu with only a few options is easier for users to access, though it can also be annoying for power users
I didn't know the grid view even existed, but I wish they never removed it; it looked good and simple, and much better than digging through the labyrinth of menus that is now KDE's settings app..
Might be easy to make a retro settings app for KDE, I've seen distros do thier own in different ways. Just make links to settings windows in your own layout.
I don't understand. Can you explain me why grid view should be any different?
There are also layers within layers, but you can't see other options while you are in them. So it has a worse overwiev.
To know where a menu is located doesn't help you with sub menues and where each option is in. So you also have to frantically click through various menues to find an option you can't remember (or you can just type and search it at the top).
If I can customise so many things, then too many symbols will just clutter the display and they are more difficult to read (columns and rows instead of just columns).
That is one big reason why I hate nearly every car UI, because they have dozens of big symbols and you have to swipe through them. There is absolutely no overwiev.
Tesla on the other side uses menues like those lists from Plasma. I see every menu at one glance, have a home menu with most useful stuff combined and can also search for anything with typing a few letters.
You can memorize the options only from their position? I would only remember a few (which is also the case in list view) and still have to read.
If this point was not an exaggeration on your part, I would like to award this single plus point to grid view.
However, you still have to relearn them for Plasma 6 and had to for some versions in Plasma 5, because the menus change in terms of where they belong and more options are added.
Waiting for plasma inception: Nick from @TheLinuxEXP news about Michael interview with Nicco.
Two of my favorite accent from two of my favorite RUclips channels
You guys are awesome, both of you!
I love Plasma and use it since day one. I hated Plasma 4, loved Plasma 3. 5 is great, I truly hope 6 will be good ...
I hope so too
That is interesting, I really loved Plasma 4. I still make my KDE look and feel as close to Plasma 4 as possible.
Maybe because I got started with Plasma 4 and it felt so futuristic at that time and nostalgia hits hard.
Great video! I love Plasma and can't wait for Plasma 6. I hope it includes the ability for wallpapers to span across monitors.
Budgie (that uses a lot of gnome stuff) feels more complete than gnome. It just so happens that Budgie out of the box is pretty close to the way my Plasma setup is. I had no idea there was a grid view in Plasma, lol.
Yeah, I only discovered it shortly before the talk and I wondered why this wasn't the default.
Now I myself prefer the current layout, but I also see the problems that any "normie" user could have with it.
Budgie is basically one of my favorite DEs, especially on Solus OS where it originated from.
It’s more similar to Windows 10 than Linux Mint TBH.
It won't be full of gnome stuff in the next major release.
Love to see the the laid back interviews with any Developer. 👀👍
It's awesome to see how KDE is listening and working in improving :D
Nicco: we spent a lot of time thinking about the user
Gnome devs: if you don't like it, fork it
Well, it's one approach
Yet both in this video modify KDE to be more like Gnome. That's because Gnome spends a lot of time thinking about how it will be used, and they get it right. If you don't like it, extend it.
@@shaunpatrick8345 Hi Gnome dev, it was a joke!
@@max_im_ummaybe, but so many people make the same mistake that it's impossible to tell.
I am not a Gnome dev, I find their community standards intolerable.
@@shaunpatrick8345 I strongly disagree. There is maybe one, ONE distro that ships GNOME as the developers intend without customizing it with extensions left and right and that is Fedora (hardly a surprise, right?). Everyone else have figured out a long time ago that vanilla GNOME does not cater to the average user and thus make the required modifications to make GNOME suitable to most people. Have you ever noticed how every iteration of GNOME seems to spawn a different desktop based on GNOME technologies but not GNOME Shell itself (MATE, Cinnamon, Unity, Pantheon, Budgie, the list goes on)? Whereas there is only _ONE_ KDE Plasma, that's powerful and flexible enough to be molded like GNOME if it comes to that. Let that sink in for a second.
I wish I could install more themes on Bazzite the normal way instead of having to download and install them manually so that is the one area I wish for improvement in Plasma 6.
Two of my fav Linux creators in the same video. This is beautiful
I like KDE but they do make some weird ux design. My go to way to explain what bothers me with KDE ux design is changing the background on the desktop, sddm and the lock screen. The first time I changed background I thought it was broken because sometimes sddm showed me my new background and sometimes it didn't it took me a few frustrating weeks to figure out that there was a lock screen separate of sddm. I don't know the solution to these problems but to ME it just plain confusing.
Mhh, I guess this might be a bit challenging to decide since we would need to factor in multi-user desktops.
But I feel like by default it should always display your wallpaper on your lock screen unless told otherwise.
For the login screen in general, maybe it can stay the current way, but it should also be considered
@@MichaelNROH Maybe we could follow the android model with one central location to change all of them.
I love the floating panel. I am a gnome user but I think I will switch to KDE neon when the plasma 6 is released.
Kde Neon is not a fully fledged distro though, so I wouldn't recommend it as a daily driver
why?
its just latest lts ubuntu with newer kde@@MichaelNROH
the theme downloading should be in discover - something about downloading stuff from the settings app *feels* insecure, clunky, and just asking for technical debt.
I think there should be more of the mindset to report them as issues than talking about them on the way, but I loved the video seeing you two!
I thought I was the only one setting up plasma to mimic Gnome style workflows. It always feels silly... why not just use Gnome? Well, even though Plasma is a bit jankier, I like that I don't have to "Extend" it to make the changes that interest me. I like having different wallpapers on my monitors, taskbar applets, a floating panel, and activities. I can get Gnome to function this way too, but it is heavily extended at that point and things break after a while and you have to find new extensions and live with the knowledge that your desktop is user-modded. I also like that KDE is gaming-mindful and openly supports the gaming use-case.
i believe it's opensuse that had the grid view by default
Mhhh, maybe. I'm gonna take a look
Live bug reporting on video call to developer - I love that!
This is what I was waiting XD Best feat !!!
What a great video 👍
Thanks, I appreciate it very much
6:29 I think he meant openSUSE, they use it as default in their KDE Spin
yea
That might be it yeah.
Yeah, it's openSuse. Not sure where the 'Linux Mint' guess came from given they haven't offered KDE in years lol
7:07 Since I'm on Arch Linux and Discover is not my priority there, I prefer this relic of the past and it suits me in principle
6:38 There is EU regulation 2019/882 which manifests as BFSG in Germany.
Starting 28. June 2025, accessibility is mandated in a lot more, including computer operating systems (and thus of course desktop environments).
I wonder if KDE e. V. could get sued for making accessibility worse for something that millions use just cause "uh we want to get rid of old framework thing".
I don't see Open Source projects as a target, as literally anyone could change it with a fork. Microsoft or Apple on the other hand make it way more difficult
@@MichaelNROH Yeah, likely not for some time. But they do have a responsibility regardless of that.
I would say that the crucial part for that is that they have a big userbase; that they are relevant. It's not a niche project of some random unknown people that clearly indicates that they just want to publish whatever they like. They have a well known e. V. which is a juristic person that is actionable and they have clear goals, even certifications for some software ("Grüner Engel für Software" ecology certification for Okular for example).
@@muellerhans That's a fair point. I would hope that since they have a bit more funding than your average open source project that they'd not create problems like that and fix them a bit faster when they crop up, but I guess time will tell on that one. It annoyed me when they took out the flipswitcher, and that's not even an accessibility feature, but presumably they're bringing it back and maybe it'll be more efficient than before. Perhaps such accessibility features will be the same.
The removal of a "redundant” view has nothing whatsoever to do with barrier-free access.
Else you could sue anyyone, because every system I'm not used to is "complicated and bad"!
Nicco is cool
Oh yeah
Amazing video, I like and follow you both 🙂
9:17 If you want more new people installing KDE neon your priority should be discover. Also create more optional system installations and not having it forced to people(e.g. KDE connect)
At 5:48, how you got this blue-green color transition like on the hamburger menu?
Is this new to Plasma 6 or already possible with Plasma 5, and can you combine it with color changing from background?
It's from a Kvantum theme called Lavanda - Sea
App menu design should be more modern
I love the customisation of KDE, maybe I'm old now, but apparently I now prefer not to customize my DE.
I've been using Fedora for the last year and running vanilla Gnome has reignited my enthusiasm for Linux as a desktop environment.
I've been using MacOS for work for the last 6 years, Windows for gaming/personal things but have, for the last year, seen Gnome as the main environment I spend my time on - for work and play.
The only times I boot into my Windows partition is to
1) fill out a PDF form
2) play certain specific games
3) VR experiences
4) the file manager is superior on Windows so anything involving a lot of file management I do from Windows
Linux is still a bit janky but being bombarded with Gnome updates since 4x makes me feel excited as I see the project progress.
I'm starting to get close to recommending Linux as a daily driver for non enthusiasts - though I normally recommend KDE for people who come from a Windows background given Gnome can be jarring for people familiar with Windows
The good thing about Gnome is I think it has great potential to be a zero config DE that is consistent - making it a potential great entry point for newcomers to Linux.
I respectfully disagree. There is maybe one, ONE distro that ships GNOME as the developers intend without customizing it with extensions left and right and that is Fedora (hardly a surprise, right?). Everyone else have figured out a long time ago that vanilla GNOME does not cater to the average user and thus make the required modifications to make GNOME suitable to most people. Have you ever noticed that every iteration of GNOME seems to spawn a different desktop based on GNOME technologies but not GNOME Shell itself (MATE, Cinnamon, Unity, Pantheon, Budgie, the list goes on)? Whereas there is only ONE KDE Plasma, that's powerful and flexible enough to be molded like GNOME if it comes to that. Let that sink in for a second.
@@RogerioPereiradaSilva77 I think that's because KDE is just better at customization.
@DavidAlsh Have you tried to use Okular to fill out forms? There've been a few times where I've needed to fill out a tax form and Okular actually worked. Everything looks weird on screen, but when it was printed off it was perfect.
Windows file manager is superior?
When last did you try Dolphin?
@@francisnike7545 I was using KDE earlier in the year but I'll give Dolphin another try today
i am using kde plasma 5.27. sometmes when there is a network problem, discover just crashes instead of showing network error.
Is there a way to make Linux Mint System Settings sidebar from gridview?
Is the Desktop cube effect included in Plasma 6?
I think so
Plasma's system settings are a mess compared to other desktops, even Windows 10's and 11's .
As much as I enjoy using that desktop a new to me bug that curses Dolphin to fill up all swap on my machines as of late until they crash (which might as well be an openSuSE Tumbleweed related issue), I always have to look for certain settings I'd expect elsewhere because sometimes things hide beneath one place and in later releases of Plasma in another.
Still not sold on the Wayland first vision either since I still have software in use which only functions properly using X but as long as some distro keeps the Xorg session around (yes, Fedora, you died to me without ever being an option in the first place), I am relaxed about the upcoming release of Plasma 6.
Hey, I'm using Tumbleweed and don't see that dolphin bug. How do you trigger it?
@@CristianoGuadagnino Browsing the file system.
When browsing the file system Dolphin would just stop to show contents and rather just hang until it gets killed or the RAM is used up to 100% which curses a full system crash.
@@MegaManNeo you're talking about Plasma 5, isn' it? If so, I never saw that. Must be something in your system.
@@CristianoGuadagnino It happens on two systems tho, both running openSuSE Tumbleweed.
@@MegaManNeo Maybe it's OpenSuSE. I'm on Slackware and do not see that bug at all. In fact, since upgrading to 15 I've seen less RAM usage overall. It's kind of weird because on 14.2 I'd get up to 10 or 11GB of RAM used up in no time flat, but since the upgrade it hardly ever gets up to 5GB.
Ok but can I please change the default drag nd drop behavior in dolphin k thnx
Edit: I don’t want it to ask me. Just move the file! If I wanted to copy and paste it or create a link I would right click on it!
I’m not asking to change the default just give me an option to set the default option 😒
Just hold click or shift before starting the drag and drop
@@niccoloveslinux I am aware there are alternative ways of doing it. That doesn’t change my preference for the default behavior. I don’t want to have to hold a keyboard key to trigger what I expect to happen. The point of using KDE or even Linux for that matter is freedom and customization. I get that it’s not what everyone cares about, but it’s the one thing holding me back from using KDE. I wouldn’t even mind if the method of changing the default behavior was complex, just please an option.
It’s also irritating for new users, who expect certain things to work like their previous experience on MacOS / Windows. Every major desktop operating system (including Linux based ones like chromeOS, or even other desktop environments like gnome or cinnamon) default to moving files as the default option. KDE is the only one out of touch. It’s fine when you have a behavior that’s quirky! However in my opinion, when the main allure as a desktop environment is customization, it’s super dumb to not have an OPTION to change it.
If I wanted to be annoyed by idiosyncrasies of my software and “just get used to it” because I have no choice, I would just use gnome :/
Thanks for coming to my TED talk lmao
Since you are here, I really love all the hard work you’ve put in to making KDE super awesome and fresh! I love your RUclips content, and the ability to incorporate your competition’s strengths / copy what they are doing well, just shows how much you care about making KDE the best it can possible be! So thanks for that
Is there HDR support on Plasma6?
It's being released for games soon probably. Desktop usage will follow after
@@MichaelNROH MPV player can support HDR in DRM mode, but it seems doesn't work in Plasma 6, I hope that we can see HDR videos in Plasma 6 soon.