Read the full comparison for more details: prudentreviews.com/horl-2-vs-tumbler-vs-work-sharp/ Want to know when these rolling sharpeners go on sale? Join our free newsletter to get deal alerts: prudentreviews.com/newsletter/
The fact reviewers have massive varying results on the magnet of the Tumbler (And how freely it glides), tells you something about their quality control.
Not only that, some other video had problems with the rolling... In the end the black rubber part stained his cutting board, because it wasn't rolling anymore. Just getting the original german one (Horl) is the best idea. They also have a more cheaper one.
@@Lionpigster yeah, if I'm getting a rolling sharpener, it's going to be Horl, it maybe a bit expensive for my liking but the quality is just incomparable
As mentioned the testing methodology is flawed here by using different knives. It's not the steel hardness that's the main factor but the edge angle. When you sharpen a knife to a steeper (lower degree number) edge than the existing bevel angle you have to do much more grinding before you even start touching the apex area. That's why Cangshan (factory 16 degrees sharpened to 15) needs much more work than the Wusthof (factory 14 degrees sharpened to 15). And no, the dulling doesn't remove the bevel completely, it only rounds the apex of the bevel.
I am curious if you first ground all the knives to 15 degrees before dulling them? If you didn’t and the knives weren’t previously ground and sharpened at 15 degrees, that could skew the results. Many knife manufacturers will sharpen to 20 or 25 degrees because the edge will last longer. If that was the situation, then cases where you saw little to no improvement after 100 passes but much better improvement after 300 could be because you were redoing the angle completely, which takes a while. If you were going from 15 to 20 or 25 it wouldn’t be as obvious because the edge would be the first part contacted. However, going from greater than 15 to 15 has the sharpening surface first grind down the side of the blade before you get to the edge. If you didn’t account for that, you might want to redo the testing so it is fair. If you know for a fact that all six knives were previously fully sharpened at 15 degrees, you can ignore my comment.
I have the worksharp and it does a phenomenal job on all of my knives, from kitchen to pocket, all shave the hair off my arm at the end, and Ive never had to make 100 passes per side... You need to take a class
I have a Japanese Suehiro Cerax 1000,which is probably cheaper, that get my knives very sharp. Shaving hair isn't that sharp. Most factory made, Chinese D2,foling knives ( Petrified Fish,Bestec, Two Sun, Kubey,etc) will easily shave hair. Many of them average between 120 and 140 Bess,on the test. They easily pass the tomato test. But try cutting a paper towel,without it tearing. If you can pierce a paper towel,and then cut it straight down (mostly push cutting,not sawing), now thats really sharp. In the 110 Bess range.
Oh it's great. No reference for other products like this. But for me it works well on all my knives. Whatever if I have to add hight. I get lots of engineering in a great package with awesome results. It even works on my 400$ knives from blue paper steel to powdered high carbon steel. And you can always buy extra angles from other companies. So I got the tumbler extra angle one but the roller on the horl 2 is just hands down the best if your saying that the others roll not as well. I love it's feel and don't want a gritty non smooth roll.
I would normally not recommend high end knives for products like these. Only whet stones. But if your carful and use the finer grits to get that great edge it works great. Though I would say still start off with a whet stone for your major tear aways on the steel. So like 400 grit I would use a whet stone. It also depends on thickness of edge. As long as people are carful it puts a wonderful edge on all knives. But chips are still possible.
Thank you. Ideally, I would have used 6 of the same knives. But even then, the dulling process is not exact - it's very difficult to get the same initial sharpness score. Also, I didn't repeat the tests with the same knives on each sharpener because the first time you use one of these rolling sharpeners, it sets the edge. The second and third time you use it is much easier/takes fewer passes, even if you dull the blade. So either way, the tests are not perfect. My goal was to show directionally which sharpener performs the best within the constraints of 100 and 300 passes per side. All three sharpeners get the job done with enough time. Appreciate the feedback - I'm always trying to make the testing process better.
@@earthling_parth Some products are more straightforward to test than others. But this won't be my last sharpener test, so we'll be evolving our methods. Thank you for watching!
I think that may have invalidated the results. The blade shapes are slightly different, but the hardness of the steel could be significantly different. Doing 200 passes on a softer steel could bevel it all the way through, and doing 200 on the other side would just reverse the bevel the other way, creating essentially a single-bevel blade. On a harder steel it might not get either side to bevel to the middle, leaving the knife with a flat edge instead of an apex. Bottom line is that two different knives are likely to behave very different, swamping differences in the sharpeners. There really isn't a good algorithm for getting a centered apex other than alternating strokes on the coarse grit and inspecting with a magnifier to see when the bevels meet in the middle (ie, when they're the same height).
To make the results more valid, you would need to have used 3 identical knives and devised a way to standardize the dulling process like Priject Farm does
At $189 the profit margin on the Horl must be enormous. I can see it's a well made piece of hardware but it rates in the offensive part of the spectrum on my value-for-money meter. At half the price I'd probably get one and I'm sure they'd still make a nice profit.
There are dozens of cheaper options - some way cheaper. But read the reviews carefully, many of them have weak magnets, poor bearings, and discs that don't last.
It might surprise you, but no. The main factors are R&D and wages, the latter are comparatively high and on top of that there are additional costs for the employer. It's far from overpriced. Their high end model probably is, but that's normal when it comes to luxury products. Is it cheap? No. They still have a decent margin, but for example the margin of the Chinese sharpener is far higher.
The Tumblr diamond disc will lose almost all of its grit after sharpening just a few knives. that's why it barely got a knife from 1.1k to just over 500 Bess score. -> super cheap diamonds, if you can even call them diamonds. They have bad cquality controle, as seen in TriggTube's recent video compaing the Horl and Tumblr, it flat out stoped rolling. The Horl's diamond disc, as per Horl's website, lasts "forever". Also, they have much better quality controle.
Check out the Canadian made Hone rolling sharpening system. Might easily make it to the top of your list! It has gotten overlooked by so many of these rolling sharpener reviews.
The issue I'm wondering... the angle of the bevel on the blades may not have been the same as the sharpeners provided... using the same knives (or at least knife brand) in the testings would have been valuable...
FYI - Wusthof knives are 14 degrees and require a specific guide block when sharpening on a stone. . This could explain some of the "extra" required sharpening using a 15 degrees sharpening tool.
I have still the first gen of the block from kickstarter. they have issues in gas grills or lidded kettle grills as it is a farday cage. however pans are no issue at all. and they are usually spot on
EXCELLENT TESTING! Wow, a lot of work! This is truly high quality content. The main issue I have with all of them is that they can't go steeper than 15 degrees. Nearly all higher end Japanese knives are 12 degrees or less. So if you sharpen then with these rollers, then you're essentially reprofiling the edge, and it's never good to go from a steeper angle to a less steep one (going the other way is OK). There are some rollers on Amazon that offer 12 degrees, but they're really dodgy looking.
Thank you so much! This one took a while :) Totally agree - they should at least have a 12-degree angle. There are lots of knockoffs online so you need to be careful and read lots of reviews.
@@PrudentReviews One other important point about the Tumbler is that there's a huge difference between good and bad quality diamond stones. The lesser quality ones wear out quickly, and if you can't replace them on the roller, then it's a bust. Sharpton makes the best diamond stones btw. I wish they'd make a roller.
The Horl professional is more expensive, but offers angles of 10° / 13° / 15° / 20° / 22° and 25°. The Pro also uses a geared system to turn the grinding wheel quicker than the movement of the sharpener body. Still far too expensive.
It would be interesting to see an evaluation of pull through sharpeners that use rolling discs. The ones with just a V shape that you pull the knife through get rightly shit on, but it seems like the ones with a canted "hourglass" roller should operate on a similar principle as these. When the hourglass shape is rotated slightly, it causes the knife edge to contact either side of the sideways hourglass shape before it can bottom out in the middle point of the hourglass shape. Its a really interesting design - I have one that works well but im curious to know whether upgrading to these would be a significant upgrade or not since the contact motion should be similar.
I greatly appreciate you using the tester correctly! It has become far to normal to use that incorrectly and use other not very good sharpness tests to become trendy and make knives or their sharpening look better than they actually are. There are some that use that to promote their sharpener, especially like with Rui knives to promote his pull though sharpener. He especially markets it for cheap knives, but doesn't bother to do edge retention tests or show how much steel it shaves off. A decent or even good cheap knife can last a lifetime and cut extremely well, but you have to treat it like a more expensive knife. Some knives will act like a cheap knife, but others when taken properly can be a very solid tool that will take and hold a sharp edge, and especially if you properly apex, refine, and deburr the knife and find the best edge angle to maximise cutting performance and edge retention. Keep up the good work! Sincerely, JS
Bbuuutt he didn’t… Honestly you sort of know what you’re talking bout if that subject is NOTHING.. Did you even realize he was using the wrong angle on the Work Sharp
@@JH-ks9oi First time I watched this one was late at night after getting home from a long day of work and school. I can see where you are coming from, and I would agree that my initial assessment and comment was off. He did technically use the tester correctly, but his methodology and using different knives, with different initial edge angles and hardnesses as well as not specifying what angle he was sharpening at make the results much more questionable and should be tossed and redone with improved methodology and consistency for the actual sharpening and what knives he is using. I think it would be better to have 3 of each knife, a lower hardness, 54 HRC, medium hardness German knife, 58 HRC, and then a higher hardness knife in the 60+ HRC range. Would get the knives HRC tested to ensure consistency for each category, make sure the behind edge thickness is the same on all of them for each category. There are a number of other variables that would need to be locked down as well for more serious testing that are replicatable, testable, and consistent. The nice thing is that once reputable consistent sourcing that meet your specifications has been established for blades and the other resources required, and once the methodology has been troubleshooted, it means that you can produce high quality tests that allow you to test for very specific things. A few such tests would be the CHARPY test, CATRA test, HRC tests, Corrosion resistance tests, using a Dial indicator for measuring runout on a turned diameter or hole, using it for measuring flatness and consistency, etc. where when certain parameters are followed, these tests provide a more accurate solid baseline that you can then use for doing series of tests. As you and others in the comments have mentioned, these tests are not in that category where they could be taken seriously. As you sorta pointed out, I did myself no favors writing it late at night, running on not much sleep. My previous comment is more of a rambling than a piece just focused on the actual objective which primarily is discussing the test results and the quality of said tests. You have my apologies! Prudent Reviews, if you see this, I hope you will consider some of the points made so that you can provide better testing in the future. It would help if all the knives are sharpened at 15° initially, as that then would not improve consistency in the tests, but your tests would not be getting thrown off by using different knives with differrent initial edge angles, which means on some you may having to reprofild them. I think having a setup like projects farms would be good for dulling the knives, so as to take out the human error in using lighter or heavier pressure. Hope this helps! Sincerely, JS
I think the cost and amount of work necessary to sharpen a bunch of knives at once is a downside. I love my chef's choice electric sharpener. Have had it for 20 years. Works great. No problems.
The 1st time on each knife takes the longest. But after the edge is set, it only takes a couple minutes per side. Electric sharpeners will almost always be faster, but these are a convenient alternative.
@@leoz6338 I have a Chef's Choice as well. Its a workhorse for sure. But these are interesting and anything that gets folks to sharpen their knives is a good thing!
Horl also offers the Horl2 Pro which has a planetary gearbox inside, leading to the sharpening disks rotating much faster than the roller overall, which shortens sharpening time.
Have you reviewed the Canadian made in America Honey sharpener. Either its marketing is very good or it’s a contender for first place on the value/quality scale. Thanks, great reviews.
Looking at a few of the reviews for horl and tumbler. Buy horl. The diamonds last longer and it does the job consistently for longer. Watching other reviews the tumbler diamonds plate wears out a lot faster due to the cheaper quality.
Thank you. There are pros and cons to all of them but based on my experience, rolling sharpeners work significantly better than most pull through sharpeners, and they are easier to use than a whetstone because you don’t need to worry about getting the angle right.
I am SO excited to see this. I've been curious about this. I already own a good electric sharpener. But this form factor is intriguing. And it was fun to learn about how sharpness can be tested. I'm not sure I'm ready to buy any of these, but this review was fascinating. How about a link to that sharpness tester?
These sharpeners aren’t for everyone but they’re perfect for people who want something better than a pull through sharpener but don’t want to learn how to use a whetstone. They are pretty fun to use too. Here’s the sharpness tester I used. There are a couple other less expensive versions but this one is the most accurate. www.sharpeningsupplies.com/collections/edge-on-up/products/edge-on-up-industrial-edge-tester
@@PrudentReviews Thank you!! They sell a home version which isn't all that expensive. And it beats the "slice paper" or "feel it with your thumb" options.
Based on other reviews and info I’ve read, the tumbler stops working after just a few knives. Horl seems to be the only brand to even consider. One question: why did you use the 15 degree angle? Isn’t that for specific knives? The 20 degree angle is more universal, right?
Unless I missed it, you did not pre-sharpen all the knife edges to the same angle. Ideally, you would test all the sharpeners on each knife, one at a tiime.
Ideally, I would have used 6 of the same knives. But even then, the dulling process is not exact - it's very difficult to get the same initial sharpness score. My tests are not perfect but they show directionally which sharpener performs the best within the constraints of 100 and 300 passes per side. Appreciate the feedback - I'm always trying to make the testing process better.
Tell me you have no idea about knives without telling me you have none… You used the wrong angle first off for your chef’s knife on Work Sharp… So this comparison makes no sense
I understand why these over priced sharpeners exist because normal consumers are afraid of a traditional Japanese stone that does a better but you must hold the knife at a consistent angle.
The amount of passes/strokes is rather high for a manual sharpener 100-200 & the costs are in the Higher End Electric Motor Sharpener Range (Chef's Choice)....
You have to remember that he dulled the knives to an unrealistic extent for the purposes of testing. 1 kg to cut the wire is DULL. Most people sharpen well before that point (as they should).
@@theredbar-cross8515 honestly all it takes to dull any chef knife is 5 full strokes across a red brick....Even using a cheap $25 wet stone would not require 100 strokes to regain an edge or using chef's choice manual knife sharpener 4360 that costs $18 might take 10 strokes. These products are over $100 each. Make it make sense that they are a good value
@@da900smoove1They're much easier to use than a stone, especially in terms of holding a consistent angle, which is one of the most important things to get right. So for someone who does this rarely, these will be more convenient and do a better job, if they still understand how to properly apex and hone a blade. A Chef's Choice will be slightly less convenient (just setting it up) but faster, and will hold a consistent angle, but costs more, and while it seems foolproof you still have to be aware of how apexing works so you can get it done evenly and not all wonky.
@@blairhoughton7918 uuummmmm let me get this straight....spend over $100 for a manual knife sharpener and get results as if you used a simple ez to use small $20 manual knife sharpener or spend $150 for 3 stage electric knife sharpener that is bulky but gives you excellent results like using Wet Stones only in scant few minutes ???
@@Sgt.Leonardoit really doesn't matter too much just try and keep it even on both sides and make sure the apex is straight, then do a test on a piece of paper. Should cut straight like butter.
I'd have trusted your results more, had you used identical sets of knives on each sharpener. The ones you used may have had softer or harder steel. Also the original angles may have been different, needing more work to reshape them to 15 or 20 degrees.
Diamond stones have a break in period where they cut super aggressively at first but then not so well. A RUclips channel that focuses on knife sharpening found that the tumbler couldn’t sharpen anything after that break in period. Would love to see a follow up after some time in use.
I'm nor trying to be rude, but You did not use the worksharp correctly in any way, hence your poor results..... the turning you complained about? It's designed to do that . That turning allows it to follow the edge of the blade as it curves and maintain contact across the flat of the disk for proper sharpening. The horl stays straight as the blade curves thus you are sharpening on the edge of the disc, which is not conducive to proper sharpening. Also, misen knives are notorious for uneven grinds , so i am curious if you used a different knife for each sharpener or the same knife. If the grind was wonky, you wouldnt even apex the edge, so you wouldnt get a sharp knife. As far as sharpening technique goes, the big lie in these is that you just run it back and forth and its sharp.... that is incorrect. you still have to apex the edge on each side and deburr properly, the same as you would on any other sharpening system. I assure you, the worksharp gives me similar results as japanese water stones when used correctly.
As soon as I saw these type of sharpeners, my immediate skepticism came with the fact that there is no way to adjust for the primary and secondary bevel angle (i.e., what the angle of the part of the knife that attaches to the magnet is), and the fact that it is practically impossible to apply meaningful force against the edge with the sharpening media. The part that concerns me about your test is that you used different knife models for every single sample, meaning that the secondary bevel angle of the knives pretty much became a wild card throughout your test.
A non-powered knife sharpener is more expensive than a powered one? I am call B.S. on this. It's a piece of wood, with a bearing, rubber o ring, magnet, and a piece of metal along with sharpening stones. Not complicated compared to the electric sharpeners. It's an overpriced, but nifty gadget for people with more money than sense.
Those number suck for all of these. I'd be willing to bet I could get a knife below 150 Bess by just using a Japanese King 1000 deluxe whetstone. And it's only $35. And if the knife isn't chipped, and you continually touch it up, a Messermister ceramic honing rod,or other high quality ceramic rod, will keep that knife close to the factory sharpness. And they're around $40, but don't take much skill like using a whetstone. A ceramic rod is the best cheap way to maintain your knives. In fact, I've gotten all my folding knives,over thirty, (I'm a collector) way beyond factory sharpness,by just using a ceramic honing rod. The truth is, many of my cheap Chinese folding knives,made of D2 steel, are now as sharp,and some sharper,than my premium chef knives.Those can now cut a paper towel if you puncture a whole in it and cut straight down. The only knives that are sharper are my Japanese, powdered S2 steel,damascus knives. But those cost over $250. each. From the factory,those would cut paper towels,from the edge, without tearing them.
How is this test valid when you used different knives for every sharpener? This test is completely void. The metallurgy/makeup of the knives was not even discussed.
They're too expensive. You can get professional quality sharpeners for literally $20-30 more. Ken onion worksharp is $122 right now the mark 2 is $170 and it takes a few minutes to achieve proper sharp.
@@PrudentReviews Its really apples to oranges. These rolling sharpeners are of the "give to your mother or mother in law" type equipment. Anybody can learn to use them relatively quickly. The Worksharps are "prosumer" type equipment. The are fast, and they use belts that come in different grits and they can easily be replace. You could do a couple dozen knives in an afternoon. But you need a bit of practice to use them. They are a bit too industrial for my tastes. Learning to use diamond stones is more enjoyable, IMO.
You need to redo the test sharpening the same knife. This video might as well be comparing different apple types to each other. Consistency yields consistency. You did anything but...🤷♂️
They are all overpriced honestly. For € 60ish you can get one decent diamond stone it will be good enough for german style kitchen knives. If you want to splurge you can get two Atoma, 400 grit and 1200 grit for around €80 each, but the 400 is already enough. Not gimmicky, they will give you great results in less time.
Much higher learning curve, and until you've practiced a lot you won't be holding the angle at all consistently. With these you just have to learn how to get a symmetrical apex.
Tumbler is trash. Used it once and tried using it again 1 month later and it wouldn’t roll. Customer service was a joke. Never got a replacement so I have a $100 paper weight.
Thank you for a real review. Unlike the paid reviews(liars)trying to run down the cheap brands. Makes me even more adamant not to spend my money on these overpriced pieces of junk
No human can maintain an angle near as well, and there are so many issues that can pop up like dishing, burs, slurry, etc. Most people aren't going to learn all they should to sharpen manually (reference Cliff Stamp's videos).
Yeah, but that would be true even if these were free. Learning to use a stone is a skill for life. But in my experience getting better than "OK" at it takes a fair amount of practice. After a dozen sharpenings or so, I am at the point where I can get all our knives sharp enough for kitchen use. But they are nowhere near "hair-whittling" sharp like some of these guys are able to get, and quite quickly, too.
Ideally, I would have used 6 of the same knives. But even then, the dulling process is not exact - it's very difficult to get the same initial sharpness score. Also, I didn't repeat the tests with the same knives on each sharpener because the first time you use one of these rolling sharpeners, it sets the edge. The second and third time you use it is much easier/takes fewer passes, even if you dull the blade. So either way, the tests are not perfect. My goal was to show directionally which sharpener performs the best within the constraints of 100 and 300 passes per side. All three sharpeners get the job done with enough time. Appreciate the feedback - I'm always trying to make the testing process better.
@@madthumbs1564The burr forms at the apex because of sharpening. It's a thin foil that bends away from the sharpener instead of getting scraped off by it. Stropping with a flexible material removes it entirely by basically ripping it off in pieces, then lapping the hard edge. After that there's no foil to bend over the apex in normal use. It will dull by getting little chips and dents and wiggly deformations, some of which you can correct with a honing steel. Hard chopping on a hard cutting surface can mash it. Metal fatigue isn't a major contributor.
@@blairhoughton7918 Sorry, I'm gonna stick to learning from Cliff Stamp who had a PhD in nuclear physics, an obsession with blades and metallurgy, a status on knife forums of being previously banned for admins and mods being ignorant (and now his info is stickied) before some random commentor on youtube.
@@madthumbs1564 Cool story. Look up argumentum ad verecundiam. Then ask your PhD balloon why every hole a machinist makes is liable to need deburring. Let us know if he invokes flat earth theory in his answer.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Read the full comparison for more details: prudentreviews.com/horl-2-vs-tumbler-vs-work-sharp/
Want to know when these rolling sharpeners go on sale? Join our free newsletter to get deal alerts: prudentreviews.com/newsletter/
The fact reviewers have massive varying results on the magnet of the Tumbler (And how freely it glides), tells you something about their quality control.
Not only that, some other video had problems with the rolling... In the end the black rubber part stained his cutting board, because it wasn't rolling anymore.
Just getting the original german one (Horl) is the best idea. They also have a more cheaper one.
@@Lionpigster yep
@@Lionpigster yeah, if I'm getting a rolling sharpener, it's going to be Horl, it maybe a bit expensive for my liking but the quality is just incomparable
As mentioned the testing methodology is flawed here by using different knives. It's not the steel hardness that's the main factor but the edge angle. When you sharpen a knife to a steeper (lower degree number) edge than the existing bevel angle you have to do much more grinding before you even start touching the apex area. That's why Cangshan (factory 16 degrees sharpened to 15) needs much more work than the Wusthof (factory 14 degrees sharpened to 15). And no, the dulling doesn't remove the bevel completely, it only rounds the apex of the bevel.
Brilliant magnet test! Pure genius 😂
I am curious if you first ground all the knives to 15 degrees before dulling them? If you didn’t and the knives weren’t previously ground and sharpened at 15 degrees, that could skew the results. Many knife manufacturers will sharpen to 20 or 25 degrees because the edge will last longer. If that was the situation, then cases where you saw little to no improvement after 100 passes but much better improvement after 300 could be because you were redoing the angle completely, which takes a while. If you were going from 15 to 20 or 25 it wouldn’t be as obvious because the edge would be the first part contacted. However, going from greater than 15 to 15 has the sharpening surface first grind down the side of the blade before you get to the edge.
If you didn’t account for that, you might want to redo the testing so it is fair. If you know for a fact that all six knives were previously fully sharpened at 15 degrees, you can ignore my comment.
they were all dulled equally.
@@huczdulled equally tells nothing about what angle they were originally ground to.
Exactly!
I have the worksharp and it does a phenomenal job on all of my knives, from kitchen to pocket, all shave the hair off my arm at the end, and Ive never had to make 100 passes per side... You need to take a class
I have a Japanese Suehiro Cerax 1000,which is probably cheaper, that get my knives very sharp. Shaving hair isn't that sharp. Most factory made, Chinese D2,foling knives ( Petrified Fish,Bestec, Two Sun, Kubey,etc) will easily shave hair. Many of them average between 120 and 140 Bess,on the test. They easily pass the tomato test. But try cutting a paper towel,without it tearing. If you can pierce a paper towel,and then cut it straight down (mostly push cutting,not sawing), now thats really sharp. In the 110 Bess range.
Thank you for validating my purchase I made when horl 2 came out. I saw this video and was like I hope I got a good one.
Great choice. How do you like it so far?
Oh it's great. No reference for other products like this. But for me it works well on all my knives. Whatever if I have to add hight. I get lots of engineering in a great package with awesome results. It even works on my 400$ knives from blue paper steel to powdered high carbon steel. And you can always buy extra angles from other companies. So I got the tumbler extra angle one but the roller on the horl 2 is just hands down the best if your saying that the others roll not as well. I love it's feel and don't want a gritty non smooth roll.
I would normally not recommend high end knives for products like these. Only whet stones. But if your carful and use the finer grits to get that great edge it works great. Though I would say still start off with a whet stone for your major tear aways on the steel. So like 400 grit I would use a whet stone. It also depends on thickness of edge. As long as people are carful it puts a wonderful edge on all knives. But chips are still possible.
Excellent video but I'm curious as to why you didn't use the same knives for testing all three?
Thank you. Ideally, I would have used 6 of the same knives. But even then, the dulling process is not exact - it's very difficult to get the same initial sharpness score. Also, I didn't repeat the tests with the same knives on each sharpener because the first time you use one of these rolling sharpeners, it sets the edge. The second and third time you use it is much easier/takes fewer passes, even if you dull the blade. So either way, the tests are not perfect. My goal was to show directionally which sharpener performs the best within the constraints of 100 and 300 passes per side. All three sharpeners get the job done with enough time. Appreciate the feedback - I'm always trying to make the testing process better.
@@PrudentReviews thank you. I realized it's not as simple as I thought. Appreciate all your hard work!
@@earthling_parth Some products are more straightforward to test than others. But this won't be my last sharpener test, so we'll be evolving our methods. Thank you for watching!
I think that may have invalidated the results. The blade shapes are slightly different, but the hardness of the steel could be significantly different. Doing 200 passes on a softer steel could bevel it all the way through, and doing 200 on the other side would just reverse the bevel the other way, creating essentially a single-bevel blade. On a harder steel it might not get either side to bevel to the middle, leaving the knife with a flat edge instead of an apex. Bottom line is that two different knives are likely to behave very different, swamping differences in the sharpeners.
There really isn't a good algorithm for getting a centered apex other than alternating strokes on the coarse grit and inspecting with a magnifier to see when the bevels meet in the middle (ie, when they're the same height).
To make the results more valid, you would need to have used 3 identical knives and devised a way to standardize the dulling process like Priject Farm does
At $189 the profit margin on the Horl must be enormous. I can see it's a well made piece of hardware but it rates in the offensive part of the spectrum on my value-for-money meter. At half the price I'd probably get one and I'm sure they'd still make a nice profit.
There are dozens of cheaper options - some way cheaper. But read the reviews carefully, many of them have weak magnets, poor bearings, and discs that don't last.
They are made in Germany and you are not just paying for the matter but also for the engineering behind it. R&D is anything but cheap.
It might surprise you, but no. The main factors are R&D and wages, the latter are comparatively high and on top of that there are additional costs for the employer.
It's far from overpriced. Their high end model probably is, but that's normal when it comes to luxury products.
Is it cheap? No. They still have a decent margin, but for example the margin of the Chinese sharpener is far higher.
The Tumblr diamond disc will lose almost all of its grit after sharpening just a few knives. that's why it barely got a knife from 1.1k to just over 500 Bess score. -> super cheap diamonds, if you can even call them diamonds. They have bad cquality controle, as seen in TriggTube's recent video compaing the Horl and Tumblr, it flat out stoped rolling.
The Horl's diamond disc, as per Horl's website, lasts "forever". Also, they have much better quality controle.
Given the materials and build quality of the knock offs I’d say they are probably the ones with the enormous profit margins.
I just had a look at the Horl website. There is now a cheap option. The Horl 3 Cruise is USD 99.
It would be interesting to know how it performs.
I just got it a couple weeks ago - will report back!
Why didn't you use 6 identical knives so you had consistent blade steels?
1:21
@@MrNoClueAtAll Name checks out.
Check out the Canadian made Hone rolling sharpening system. Might easily make it to the top of your list! It has gotten overlooked by so many of these rolling sharpener reviews.
The issue I'm wondering... the angle of the bevel on the blades may not have been the same as the sharpeners provided... using the same knives (or at least knife brand) in the testings would have been valuable...
FYI - Wusthof knives are 14 degrees and require a specific guide block when sharpening on a stone. . This could explain some of the "extra" required sharpening using a 15 degrees sharpening tool.
It wouldn't matter after scraping the old edge down to a nub. Resharpening on a 15 degree angle should create a new apex.
@@blairhoughton7918 That's what I was referencing: changing the edge required the "extra" in the initial sharpening.
What do you think about America's Test Kitchen electric knife sharpener choice, the Chef's Choice Trizor?
You used different knives. Also the curve on the Work Sharpe helps with the edge of the blade. Makes it so much easier than the other two.
Also user error if he wasn't able to get a sharp edge using the work sharp. There's nothing wrong with the discs.
If he only understood what the correct angle of the edge was… From just that perspective the whole test is mooted
I have still the first gen of the block from kickstarter. they have issues in gas grills or lidded kettle grills as it is a farday cage. however pans are no issue at all. and they are usually spot on
EXCELLENT TESTING! Wow, a lot of work!
This is truly high quality content.
The main issue I have with all of them is that they can't go steeper than 15 degrees.
Nearly all higher end Japanese knives are 12 degrees or less. So if you sharpen then with these rollers, then you're essentially reprofiling the edge, and it's never good to go from a steeper angle to a less steep one (going the other way is OK).
There are some rollers on Amazon that offer 12 degrees, but they're really dodgy looking.
Thank you so much! This one took a while :) Totally agree - they should at least have a 12-degree angle. There are lots of knockoffs online so you need to be careful and read lots of reviews.
@@PrudentReviews One other important point about the Tumbler is that there's a huge difference between good and bad quality diamond stones. The lesser quality ones wear out quickly, and if you can't replace them on the roller, then it's a bust.
Sharpton makes the best diamond stones btw. I wish they'd make a roller.
@@theredbar-cross8515very good point - I’ll have to do an update down the road to see which discs are wearing down.
The Horl professional is more expensive, but offers angles of 10° / 13° / 15° / 20° / 22° and 25°. The Pro also uses a geared system to turn the grinding wheel quicker than the movement of the sharpener body.
Still far too expensive.
This is such an excellent review! I was just looking at getting one of these sharpeners. Thank you for such awesome content!
Thank you so much! I hope it helped you narrow down the choices
It would be interesting to see an evaluation of pull through sharpeners that use rolling discs. The ones with just a V shape that you pull the knife through get rightly shit on, but it seems like the ones with a canted "hourglass" roller should operate on a similar principle as these. When the hourglass shape is rotated slightly, it causes the knife edge to contact either side of the sideways hourglass shape before it can bottom out in the middle point of the hourglass shape. Its a really interesting design - I have one that works well but im curious to know whether upgrading to these would be a significant upgrade or not since the contact motion should be similar.
I am curious if you used these multiple times for longevity testing.
I greatly appreciate you using the tester correctly! It has become far to normal to use that incorrectly and use other not very good sharpness tests to become trendy and make knives or their sharpening look better than they actually are. There are some that use that to promote their sharpener, especially like with Rui knives to promote his pull though sharpener. He especially markets it for cheap knives, but doesn't bother to do edge retention tests or show how much steel it shaves off. A decent or even good cheap knife can last a lifetime and cut extremely well, but you have to treat it like a more expensive knife. Some knives will act like a cheap knife, but others when taken properly can be a very solid tool that will take and hold a sharp edge, and especially if you properly apex, refine, and deburr the knife and find the best edge angle to maximise cutting performance and edge retention. Keep up the good work!
Sincerely,
JS
Bbuuutt he didn’t… Honestly you sort of know what you’re talking bout if that subject is NOTHING.. Did you even realize he was using the wrong angle on the Work Sharp
@@JH-ks9oi First time I watched this one was late at night after getting home from a long day of work and school. I can see where you are coming from, and I would agree that my initial assessment and comment was off. He did technically use the tester correctly, but his methodology and using different knives, with different initial edge angles and hardnesses as well as not specifying what angle he was sharpening at make the results much more questionable and should be tossed and redone with improved methodology and consistency for the actual sharpening and what knives he is using. I think it would be better to have 3 of each knife, a lower hardness, 54 HRC, medium hardness German knife, 58 HRC, and then a higher hardness knife in the 60+ HRC range. Would get the knives HRC tested to ensure consistency for each category, make sure the behind edge thickness is the same on all of them for each category. There are a number of other variables that would need to be locked down as well for more serious testing that are replicatable, testable, and consistent. The nice thing is that once reputable consistent sourcing that meet your specifications has been established for blades and the other resources required, and once the methodology has been troubleshooted, it means that you can produce high quality tests that allow you to test for very specific things. A few such tests would be the CHARPY test, CATRA test, HRC tests, Corrosion resistance tests, using a Dial indicator for measuring runout on a turned diameter or hole, using it for measuring flatness and consistency, etc. where when certain parameters are followed, these tests provide a more accurate solid baseline that you can then use for doing series of tests. As you and others in the comments have mentioned, these tests are not in that category where they could be taken seriously.
As you sorta pointed out, I did myself no favors writing it late at night, running on not much sleep. My previous comment is more of a rambling than a piece just focused on the actual objective which primarily is discussing the test results and the quality of said tests. You have my apologies!
Prudent Reviews, if you see this, I hope you will consider some of the points made so that you can provide better testing in the future. It would help if all the knives are sharpened at 15° initially, as that then would not improve consistency in the tests, but your tests would not be getting thrown off by using different knives with differrent initial edge angles, which means on some you may having to reprofild them. I think having a setup like projects farms would be good for dulling the knives, so as to take out the human error in using lighter or heavier pressure. Hope this helps!
Sincerely,
JS
To compare the three sharpeners you should’ve used the same 2 knives on each. It’s such a shame that you used 6 different knives.
I think the cost and amount of work necessary to sharpen a bunch of knives at once is a downside. I love my chef's choice electric sharpener. Have had it for 20 years. Works great. No problems.
The 1st time on each knife takes the longest. But after the edge is set, it only takes a couple minutes per side. Electric sharpeners will almost always be faster, but these are a convenient alternative.
@@leoz6338 I have a Chef's Choice as well. Its a workhorse for sure. But these are interesting and anything that gets folks to sharpen their knives is a good thing!
Horl also offers the Horl2 Pro which has a planetary gearbox inside, leading to the sharpening disks rotating much faster than the roller overall, which shortens sharpening time.
The motor on mine slowed to a crawl after 2 years.
From what ive read the horl is the original
It is.
Have you reviewed the Canadian made in America Honey sharpener. Either its marketing is very good or it’s a contender for first place on the value/quality scale. Thanks, great reviews.
Looking at a few of the reviews for horl and tumbler. Buy horl. The diamonds last longer and it does the job consistently for longer. Watching other reviews the tumbler diamonds plate wears out a lot faster due to the cheaper quality.
Very informative. Do you prefer this style of sharpeners to others?
Thank you. There are pros and cons to all of them but based on my experience, rolling sharpeners work significantly better than most pull through sharpeners, and they are easier to use than a whetstone because you don’t need to worry about getting the angle right.
I am SO excited to see this. I've been curious about this. I already own a good electric sharpener. But this form factor is intriguing. And it was fun to learn about how sharpness can be tested. I'm not sure I'm ready to buy any of these, but this review was fascinating.
How about a link to that sharpness tester?
These sharpeners aren’t for everyone but they’re perfect for people who want something better than a pull through sharpener but don’t want to learn how to use a whetstone. They are pretty fun to use too.
Here’s the sharpness tester I used. There are a couple other less expensive versions but this one is the most accurate. www.sharpeningsupplies.com/collections/edge-on-up/products/edge-on-up-industrial-edge-tester
@@PrudentReviews Thank you!! They sell a home version which isn't all that expensive. And it beats the "slice paper" or "feel it with your thumb" options.
@@lisaboban Absolutely!
Based on other reviews and info I’ve read, the tumbler stops working after just a few knives.
Horl seems to be the only brand to even consider.
One question: why did you use the 15 degree angle? Isn’t that for specific knives? The 20 degree angle is more universal, right?
I had one and it stopped rolling after 1 use. Absolutely trash. Customer service was a joke and I never got a replacement.
Unless I missed it, you did not pre-sharpen all the knife edges to the same angle. Ideally, you would test all the sharpeners on each knife, one at a tiime.
Knives get thicker as you grind away their edge. I'd get three dollar store chef knives.
why did you use different knives for each block? the results are less comparable because of it.
Ideally, I would have used 6 of the same knives. But even then, the dulling process is not exact - it's very difficult to get the same initial sharpness score. My tests are not perfect but they show directionally which sharpener performs the best within the constraints of 100 and 300 passes per side. Appreciate the feedback - I'm always trying to make the testing process better.
200 times each side with the tumbler?? And another guy says that the idea is only 20 in each side
I just followed the instructions that said for at least 5 min. I still don't know how long to hone.
If the angle is set it only needs a few strokes. The first time you need to set the angle bc from the factory it could be slightly different
Tell me you have no idea about knives without telling me you have none… You used the wrong angle first off for your chef’s knife on Work Sharp… So this comparison makes no sense
i find it crazy that all of these cost more then the work sharp knife sharpening system.
Yeah, I didn't make these knives myself so how would I know whether I needed to use the 15° or 20° option???
The factory angles are usually listed online. Choose the angle closest to that.
I understand why these over priced sharpeners exist because normal consumers are afraid of a traditional Japanese stone that does a better but you must hold the knife at a consistent angle.
The amount of passes/strokes is rather high for a manual sharpener 100-200 & the costs are in the Higher End Electric Motor Sharpener Range (Chef's Choice)....
You have to remember that he dulled the knives to an unrealistic extent for the purposes of testing. 1 kg to cut the wire is DULL. Most people sharpen well before that point (as they should).
@@theredbar-cross8515 honestly all it takes to dull any chef knife is 5 full strokes across a red brick....Even using a cheap $25 wet stone would not require 100 strokes to regain an edge or using chef's choice manual knife sharpener 4360 that costs $18 might take 10 strokes. These products are over $100 each. Make it make sense that they are a good value
@@da900smoove1They're much easier to use than a stone, especially in terms of holding a consistent angle, which is one of the most important things to get right. So for someone who does this rarely, these will be more convenient and do a better job, if they still understand how to properly apex and hone a blade. A Chef's Choice will be slightly less convenient (just setting it up) but faster, and will hold a consistent angle, but costs more, and while it seems foolproof you still have to be aware of how apexing works so you can get it done evenly and not all wonky.
@@blairhoughton7918 uuummmmm let me get this straight....spend over $100 for a manual knife sharpener and get results as if you used a simple ez to use small $20 manual knife sharpener or spend $150 for 3 stage electric knife sharpener that is bulky but gives you excellent results like using Wet Stones only in scant few minutes ???
There is another.. the Hone.
I just bought the Tumbler (before I saw this video) and I'm still not sure how long or how many strokes I should Hone for exactly.
@@Sgt.Leonardoit really doesn't matter too much just try and keep it even on both sides and make sure the apex is straight, then do a test on a piece of paper. Should cut straight like butter.
I'd have trusted your results more, had you used identical sets of knives on each sharpener. The ones you used may have had softer or harder steel. Also the original angles may have been different, needing more work to reshape them to 15 or 20 degrees.
200 passes to get a sharp knife? Hmmmm? I’ll keep looking at sharpeners
Is it laziness or you want magic?
The hone sharpener is better than any of the three.
Diamond stones have a break in period where they cut super aggressively at first but then not so well. A RUclips channel that focuses on knife sharpening found that the tumbler couldn’t sharpen anything after that break in period. Would love to see a follow up after some time in use.
I plan to do a follow up in 6-12 months
I'm nor trying to be rude, but You did not use the worksharp correctly in any way, hence your poor results..... the turning you complained about? It's designed to do that . That turning allows it to follow the edge of the blade as it curves and maintain contact across the flat of the disk for proper sharpening. The horl stays straight as the blade curves thus you are sharpening on the edge of the disc, which is not conducive to proper sharpening. Also, misen knives are notorious for uneven grinds , so i am curious if you used a different knife for each sharpener or the same knife. If the grind was wonky, you wouldnt even apex the edge, so you wouldnt get a sharp knife. As far as sharpening technique goes, the big lie in these is that you just run it back and forth and its sharp.... that is incorrect. you still have to apex the edge on each side and deburr properly, the same as you would on any other sharpening system. I assure you, the worksharp gives me similar results as japanese water stones when used correctly.
I totally hear your point. But the workshop felt like it was pulling away from the blade and was more difficult to control.
As soon as I saw these type of sharpeners, my immediate skepticism came with the fact that there is no way to adjust for the primary and secondary bevel angle (i.e., what the angle of the part of the knife that attaches to the magnet is), and the fact that it is practically impossible to apply meaningful force against the edge with the sharpening media.
The part that concerns me about your test is that you used different knife models for every single sample, meaning that the secondary bevel angle of the knives pretty much became a wild card throughout your test.
The steel hardness is going to be the biggest hidden variable.
Different knives make Different results
make a comparison with a böker knife
If you have money to burn then buy Horl. But for the same money you can buy a better sharpener.
The cheap TEMU is the best
Gotta say, this did not seem like a NEUTRAL, comparison test.
A non-powered knife sharpener is more expensive than a powered one? I am call B.S. on this. It's a piece of wood, with a bearing, rubber o ring, magnet, and a piece of metal along with sharpening stones. Not complicated compared to the electric sharpeners. It's an overpriced, but nifty gadget for people with more money than sense.
Those number suck for all of these. I'd be willing to bet I could get a knife below 150 Bess by just using a Japanese King 1000 deluxe whetstone. And it's only $35. And if the knife isn't chipped, and you continually touch it up, a Messermister ceramic honing rod,or other high quality ceramic rod, will keep that knife close to the factory sharpness. And they're around $40, but don't take much skill like using a whetstone. A ceramic rod is the best cheap way to maintain your knives.
In fact, I've gotten all my folding knives,over thirty, (I'm a collector) way beyond factory sharpness,by just using a ceramic honing rod. The truth is, many of my cheap Chinese folding knives,made of D2 steel, are now as sharp,and some sharper,than my premium chef knives.Those can now cut a paper towel if you puncture a whole in it and cut straight down.
The only knives that are sharper are my Japanese, powdered S2 steel,damascus knives. But those cost over $250. each. From the factory,those would cut paper towels,from the edge, without tearing them.
How is this test valid when you used different knives for every sharpener? This test is completely void.
The metallurgy/makeup of the knives was not even discussed.
All the knives I used are made with the same steel X50CRMOV15
@@PrudentReviewsNope. That's not how you standardize a test.
They're too expensive. You can get professional quality sharpeners for literally $20-30 more. Ken onion worksharp is $122 right now the mark 2 is $170 and it takes a few minutes to achieve proper sharp.
Sounds like I'll need to test those against these rolling sharpeners...
@@PrudentReviews Its really apples to oranges. These rolling sharpeners are of the "give to your mother or mother in law" type equipment. Anybody can learn to use them relatively quickly. The Worksharps are "prosumer" type equipment. The are fast, and they use belts that come in different grits and they can easily be replace. You could do a couple dozen knives in an afternoon. But you need a bit of practice to use them. They are a bit too industrial for my tastes. Learning to use diamond stones is more enjoyable, IMO.
You need to redo the test sharpening the same knife. This video might as well be comparing different apple types to each other. Consistency yields consistency. You did anything but...🤷♂️
Maybe you should try to cut, not to press down on the cucumber, you expert, you!!
What about cheaper knife results? There is a big difference.
They are all overpriced honestly. For € 60ish you can get one decent diamond stone it will be good enough for german style kitchen knives. If you want to splurge you can get two Atoma, 400 grit and 1200 grit for around €80 each, but the 400 is already enough. Not gimmicky, they will give you great results in less time.
Much higher learning curve, and until you've practiced a lot you won't be holding the angle at all consistently. With these you just have to learn how to get a symmetrical apex.
Don't think 259-269 is considered "razor sharp."
Tumbler is trash. Used it once and tried using it again 1 month later and it wouldn’t roll. Customer service was a joke. Never got a replacement so I have a $100 paper weight.
Too bad f horl doesn't sell in Canada..
Horl is ridiculously overpriced
What if it came with the Tumbler so you could use the better magnet block?
If these videos are how you attempted to sharpen these knives, you need to learn a few things about how to sharpen properly.
My comment should read Hone and not honey
Guys please keep your money and learn how to sharpen on a stone
These are great for beginners and better than pull through sharpeners. Whet stones are great however they take time and practice.
Thank you for a real review. Unlike the paid reviews(liars)trying to run down the cheap brands. Makes me even more adamant not to spend my money on these overpriced pieces of junk
At these prices you're better off learning to sharpen with a stone.
I agree but these are made for people who don’t have the time/interest in learning how to use a stone.
No human can maintain an angle near as well, and there are so many issues that can pop up like dishing, burs, slurry, etc. Most people aren't going to learn all they should to sharpen manually (reference Cliff Stamp's videos).
Yeah, but that would be true even if these were free. Learning to use a stone is a skill for life. But in my experience getting better than "OK" at it takes a fair amount of practice. After a dozen sharpenings or so, I am at the point where I can get all our knives sharp enough for kitchen use. But they are nowhere near "hair-whittling" sharp like some of these guys are able to get, and quite quickly, too.
All of these rolling knife sharpeners lack adjustability.
Dam this guys talks a lot .
To save you some time, none of them are worth your money because rolling sharpeners are a gimmick.
Not a fair test. All knives should have been test on each sharpener. Your testing method was flawed. Therefore your results are flawed.
Ideally, I would have used 6 of the same knives. But even then, the dulling process is not exact - it's very difficult to get the same initial sharpness score. Also, I didn't repeat the tests with the same knives on each sharpener because the first time you use one of these rolling sharpeners, it sets the edge. The second and third time you use it is much easier/takes fewer passes, even if you dull the blade. So either way, the tests are not perfect. My goal was to show directionally which sharpener performs the best within the constraints of 100 and 300 passes per side. All three sharpeners get the job done with enough time. Appreciate the feedback - I'm always trying to make the testing process better.
I dont feel that you sharpened the knives right. I believe that all the knives still have a burr. No mention of removing the burr by stropping.
I used the strop after each sharpening session (before measuring). I didn't show that part to keep the video more concise.
Burrless sharpening (the way he dulled the knives removed the fatigued steel that would turn into bur). Burrless sharpening is far superior.
@@madthumbs1564The burr forms at the apex because of sharpening. It's a thin foil that bends away from the sharpener instead of getting scraped off by it. Stropping with a flexible material removes it entirely by basically ripping it off in pieces, then lapping the hard edge. After that there's no foil to bend over the apex in normal use. It will dull by getting little chips and dents and wiggly deformations, some of which you can correct with a honing steel. Hard chopping on a hard cutting surface can mash it. Metal fatigue isn't a major contributor.
@@blairhoughton7918 Sorry, I'm gonna stick to learning from Cliff Stamp who had a PhD in nuclear physics, an obsession with blades and metallurgy, a status on knife forums of being previously banned for admins and mods being ignorant (and now his info is stickied) before some random commentor on youtube.
@@madthumbs1564 Cool story. Look up argumentum ad verecundiam. Then ask your PhD balloon why every hole a machinist makes is liable to need deburring. Let us know if he invokes flat earth theory in his answer.