Agreed entirely. Those high end iGPUs were never cheap. Besides, what about memory bandwidth? There is a reason dGPUs have their own memory - because the bandwifth is several times faster than of standard RAM. Thanks for the news!
yea! i am not a chip engineer but i also believe the performance of igpus are reaching its max potential since they do not have their own dedicated vram.
bandwidth of a laptop 4070 is 256gb/s. If strix halo uses 8000mt/s ram,then the bandwidth is also 256gb/s.Not only that, but strix halo could have up to 128 gb of ram and the gpu having half of that (for arguments sake) would be 64 gb.now how fast would 64gb need to be to have the same throughput as 8gb of gddr6x (21gb/s x 8gb)?It would be 2625mt/s. Now gddr7 currently has 32gb/s and strix would need 4000mt/s to match that. The point is that ram speed really doesnt matter if you can get loads of and schedule it properly,what matters is the bus width as that determines the amount of vram modules(not ram) and the total bandwidth.
The real reason that might price these even higher is how the memory size might be very high *and* may be used by the GPU side: ie very enticing for AI model footprint. I think this is why Workstations are the first big release.
There have been unrealistic expectations of this product since it was first announced. So many people thought they were going to get a PC handheld (nearly) as powerful as a PS5 running at 20w-30w for $600 😂 when it was clearly shown that this was a 100w+ APU.
Without a store front like Steam to recoup the cost, laptops, handhelds and mini-pcs will be at a premium. Maybe if Valve launches a Steam Machine with this APU, Windows and non-Arch users can benefit from it like from the Deck.
Why would it pose challenge to cooling systems? It's not generating more heat, just that cpu and gpu are sitting closer to each other. Maybe it'll be even easier to share heat pipes. Not to say the space saved for extra heat sinks or battery.
It also has the advantage of unified memory. You can do machine learning utilizing eg. 32G of lpddr5 memory, not constrained by 8G-ish vram like 4060. These are the benefits of new packaging. Don't expect it to be magically much more power efficient than old 16 core -HX and discrete GPU models.
The GPUs under 500€ I'd like to compare them to aren't even on the market, and won't even be for another 2 years. All depends on what power consumption range these massive AMD APUs can still function properly, I've never looked up GPU underclocking or undervolting, so my expectation is 0. But if such a giant APU could work with under 70W, I'd certainly call that a win - if not, I'd probably go for something with 20-24CUs that could be kept in under 50W. But I'd still go for a combination of GPU + AMD APU and therefore my demands are not as high for an APU but still higher than what's currently on the market by AMD. (my assumption here is of course that this could make it's way to the socketed desktop CPUs)
01:48 No, they are gonna cost much more. The Strix Point cpus already cost that. Halo is meant for workstation laptops and I bet that is $2000 USD for the lower end model. If we want more accessible systems we need to wait for 4-5 months for the cut-down models. You know, the ones with disabled faulty cores and that's if vendors decide to use them.
hmm, frustrating to see that high end iGPUs seem to be betraying the reason they became so popular. If they're going to be so expensive, anyone on a budget will just look for a latpop offering with a discrete graphics card. Also unreasonable that we need to get a master's degree in electronics marketing to figure out the new names for these products. You don't know if you're getting something good unless you spen hours researching what's actually behind the name of a chip. And making the names so long isn't helping...
it,s also not helping intel is lagging behind , corner the market , raise the price , basic economics , more so if they are the only game in town who produces decent sku,s , prices r gonna suck , i,m hoping a desktop variant will also hit the market , a treu succesor to the 8700G , that would be cool
If a Strix Halo is going to be worth it or not it depends of course on its price, but also what Nvidia has coming next with the 5000 series. If the "5060" is going to obliterate the 4060 and it is at a good price and the top of the line Strix Halo is around the 4060 with crazy high price, it's going to tank. If, however, say a mini PC with the top Strix Halo comes at a price like those with the 370AI-TAXI-Whateverthenameis, then I can see the attraction even at that 1000-1100 price range. Having said that, I would be more interested for a desktop implementation at that price as one could build now a good desktop PC and take away sales from Nvidia, which in turn could be forced to lower their prices. Regarding power consumption, imagine having a desktop PC with a good CPU and a RTX 4060 level of GPU and all that for lower power consumption than a RTX 4060 on its own. Now that's good!
I mean yeah, it COULD also completely change they price of many CPUs AND GPUs if it isn't THAT expensive. But I cant imagine that happening for two reasons: 1. If it would be relatively cheap, it would be sold out instantly. And AMD probably can't produce enough of these chips, especially in the beginning. 2. That would then again lead to high prices on the used market and due to scalpers.
Cool topic to discuss! Always good to keep expectations in check... but that name tho it's the equivalent to clickbait adding all the buzz words haha. I wouldn't be surprised if reactions are surprised by the price and immediately compares it to an Apple M4 and flame it. That said, I am excited for the technology behind it! Nothing to see here ;)
Amd is targeting handhelds and mini pc that cant fit a dedicated gpu. AMD dedicated GPU sales alone is disappointing to say the least. At this rate, developers will never care about AMD GPU's. The CEO's plan is to get as many AMD gpu into the hands of consumers so that game developers will take amd gpu optimizations more seriously in the future. The easiest and fastest way to achieve this is thru a strong integrated GPU for laptops and handhelds. AMD's aggressive approach on iGPU is a strategy to push mass adoption.
If AMD want game to be optimized more they need to work more closely with developer. Just having more market share is not going to cut it. If anything AMD hardware dominating the major console already give AMD the advantage. This is why kepler hit so hard before. And even after nvidia revise their hardware with maxwell and pascal we still see AMD hardware gain advantage over time (dub as fine wine) as more and more AMD hardware festure being use. But PC is not console. With pc there are driver part that game developer can't access. So when they found out that there are issues they tell hardware maker so they will do something in the drivers. This is where AMD problem is. They were selective about which game they want to fix. Most often AMD only focus on triple A only.
i think AMD Strix Halo is amd ryzen 780m with less power cosumption that all ...less power cosumption longer battery life no thermal isu and have potential as 780m that is reversionary for portable device that can easily put in your pocket or on your wirst as a watch or wristband that is future for gaming device it portable
You're right that if Strix Halo is priced higher than a CPU+DGPU combo then it will be a commercial failure, so that's why they're not going to price it extremely high. Not saying it'll be cheap but AMD always undercuts the competition by a slim margin.
Right now Strix Point costs much more than Hawk Point because it does much more. The price might go down a little thanks to Intel's competition next month with Arrow Lake mobile. But IIRC, Intel's Arrow Lake mobile has issues with NPU numbers. :/
@@PurpleWarlock true. But until now you couldn't have a slim powerfull laptop, without buying someting with dGPU inside where the fan sounds like a plane all the time. Just like with the Zephyrus line-up. Now you can have like a 1.5kg 16" laptop good at anything.
Yeah but 100W TDP need a somewhat capable cooling system as well. That's usually not silent... Especially since it's on one little chip and not divided into two chips...
I think it's absolutely possible for AMD to make a highly powerful APU at 15w or less. They don't because there's no competition. This is the same mistake companies make again and again.
no competition??? who say no competition there is sign of warning from Intel with their latest chip ARC B580 gpu if they can turn this non powerful gpu to very powerful gpu that a sign they can compete with AMD with less power cosumption and very powerful chips they also can make it happen..it always been Intel is the one who compete with AMD in any APU making...sure now they show to the world with their Intel Arc B580
How many handhelds and consoles came with Arc? Only msi sell a few and im sure the sales are poor Intel shud step up their Celestial igpu and make it beating rtx3050/gtx 1080 in raster then AMD might compete again@@kurttis8512 Who doesnt want to game in 1080p with AFMF2 if the igpu is close to rx6600 class💪🤴
The ROG Ally failed to out perform the Steam Deck with multiple times more on paper performance, and you still think we have an energy head room at not 30 watts, but 15 watts??? 😭😭😭😭😭😭
AMD split GCN into RDNA and CDNA following Nvidia's HUGE success splitting their gaming and server architectures. AMD reunifying their architectures means one thing: they are saving money and engineers by giving up gaming, read between the lines and don't blindly believe what companies say.
BTW, I forgot to mention. If this BS with the soldered RAM continues, that's for me good enough reason to not bother. But that's just me. Now if you will excuse me, I am going to play one last round on my mid tier gaming laptop from 2014 with my i7-4710HQ.
and your doing that while on battery power alone at 60+fps? Last time I had a gaming laptop with dgpu the max performance I could get while on battery was 30fps and would only last half an hour at most. With the new strix apus I can finally have a laptop that can play modern games at 60+fps for at least 2 hours. That's amazing!!
@@mr.simulator4724 LOL don't expect high battery life while gaming on those iGPUs. It'll be higher than dGPUs, sure, but it still won't be high, and it'll probably be lower than gaming on modern, low end iGPUs.
@@TabalugaDragon actually it's really good, this person tested on gpd pocket 4 which has 45Wh battery and got 1hr 41min ruclips.net/video/FWo4xElfKgE/видео.html but with something like a vivobook s 14 which has 75Wh battery you can naturally get a lot more ruclips.net/video/2-ldxXNDKp4/видео.htmlsi=5GqI7NfYUH64Rthn With dgpus don't even bother try to game on battery, you need to be plugged in and portability goes out the window.
Nah, especially laptops with low power dGPUs like an RTX 4060 at 35W for example can do very well on battery sometimes. I managed to get up to two hours on some laptops with very good FPS (like 70%-90% of the plugged in performance if they have a larger battery) Usuall the BIG dGPUS can't cope with the power once they're on battery ...
@@Hubwood right but with the strix you limit the wattage to 15w for the whole apu without much performance loss and get like 4hrs of gaming. check the vivobook video. I doubt with 35w on dgpu plus another 10 or so watts on the cpu will get you even 1hr of gaming, maybe 30min
Agreed entirely. Those high end iGPUs were never cheap. Besides, what about memory bandwidth? There is a reason dGPUs have their own memory - because the bandwifth is several times faster than of standard RAM.
Thanks for the news!
yea! i am not a chip engineer but i also believe the performance of igpus are reaching its max potential since they do not have their own dedicated vram.
bandwidth of a laptop 4070 is 256gb/s. If strix halo uses 8000mt/s ram,then the bandwidth is also 256gb/s.Not only that, but strix halo could have up to 128 gb of ram and the gpu having half of that (for arguments sake) would be 64 gb.now how fast would 64gb need to be to have the same throughput as 8gb of gddr6x (21gb/s x 8gb)?It would be 2625mt/s. Now gddr7 currently has 32gb/s and strix would need 4000mt/s to match that. The point is that ram speed really doesnt matter if you can get loads of and schedule it properly,what matters is the bus width as that determines the amount of vram modules(not ram) and the total bandwidth.
The real reason that might price these even higher is how the memory size might be very high *and* may be used by the GPU side: ie very enticing for AI model footprint. I think this is why Workstations are the first big release.
There have been unrealistic expectations of this product since it was first announced.
So many people thought they were going to get a PC handheld (nearly) as powerful as a PS5 running at 20w-30w for $600 😂 when it was clearly shown that this was a 100w+ APU.
Without a store front like Steam to recoup the cost, laptops, handhelds and mini-pcs will be at a premium.
Maybe if Valve launches a Steam Machine with this APU, Windows and non-Arch users can benefit from it like from the Deck.
Why would it pose challenge to cooling systems? It's not generating more heat, just that cpu and gpu are sitting closer to each other. Maybe it'll be even easier to share heat pipes. Not to say the space saved for extra heat sinks or battery.
It also has the advantage of unified memory. You can do machine learning utilizing eg. 32G of lpddr5 memory, not constrained by 8G-ish vram like 4060.
These are the benefits of new packaging. Don't expect it to be magically much more power efficient than old 16 core -HX and discrete GPU models.
The GPUs under 500€ I'd like to compare them to aren't even on the market, and won't even be for another 2 years. All depends on what power consumption range these massive AMD APUs can still function properly, I've never looked up GPU underclocking or undervolting, so my expectation is 0.
But if such a giant APU could work with under 70W, I'd certainly call that a win - if not, I'd probably go for something with 20-24CUs that could be kept in under 50W. But I'd still go for a combination of GPU + AMD APU and therefore my demands are not as high for an APU but still higher than what's currently on the market by AMD. (my assumption here is of course that this could make it's way to the socketed desktop CPUs)
01:48 No, they are gonna cost much more. The Strix Point cpus already cost that. Halo is meant for workstation laptops and I bet that is $2000 USD for the lower end model.
If we want more accessible systems we need to wait for 4-5 months for the cut-down models. You know, the ones with disabled faulty cores and that's if vendors decide to use them.
Yeah maybe. Probably.
hmm, frustrating to see that high end iGPUs seem to be betraying the reason they became so popular. If they're going to be so expensive, anyone on a budget will just look for a latpop offering with a discrete graphics card.
Also unreasonable that we need to get a master's degree in electronics marketing to figure out the new names for these products. You don't know if you're getting something good unless you spen hours researching what's actually behind the name of a chip. And making the names so long isn't helping...
it,s also not helping intel is lagging behind , corner the market , raise the price , basic economics , more so if they are the only game in town who produces decent sku,s , prices r gonna suck , i,m hoping a desktop variant will also hit the market , a treu succesor to the 8700G , that would be cool
If a Strix Halo is going to be worth it or not it depends of course on its price, but also what Nvidia has coming next with the 5000 series. If the "5060" is going to obliterate the 4060 and it is at a good price and the top of the line Strix Halo is around the 4060 with crazy high price, it's going to tank.
If, however, say a mini PC with the top Strix Halo comes at a price like those with the 370AI-TAXI-Whateverthenameis, then I can see the attraction even at that 1000-1100 price range.
Having said that, I would be more interested for a desktop implementation at that price as one could build now a good desktop PC and take away sales from Nvidia, which in turn could be forced to lower their prices.
Regarding power consumption, imagine having a desktop PC with a good CPU and a RTX 4060 level of GPU and all that for lower power consumption than a RTX 4060 on its own. Now that's good!
I mean yeah, it COULD also completely change they price of many CPUs AND GPUs if it isn't THAT expensive.
But I cant imagine that happening for two reasons:
1. If it would be relatively cheap, it would be sold out instantly. And AMD probably can't produce enough of these chips, especially in the beginning.
2. That would then again lead to high prices on the used market and due to scalpers.
@@Hubwood You are not wrong, but since I have mostly lost my faith in humanity, I believe if this happens it will be on purpose. Ok I am tired too.
😂👍
1 cpu die will be better as the igpu will get higher power limit
only advantage I can see is low power consumption in less demanding use as no dgpu to suck all that efficiency when it turns on
Halo is a workstation CPU. It's gonna consume more power than Strix Point.
Probably, but maybe it will be still performing better than any other (windows compatible) APU at 30W 🤷
@@PurpleWarlock yeah relative to other cpu+dgpu workstations I mean
Cool topic to discuss! Always good to keep expectations in check... but that name tho it's the equivalent to clickbait adding all the buzz words haha. I wouldn't be surprised if reactions are surprised by the price and immediately compares it to an Apple M4 and flame it. That said, I am excited for the technology behind it!
Nothing to see here ;)
Oopsie, thanks for pointing out the typo 🙈
P.s. my kids just started watching Pingu for the first time and immediately loved it 😬
@@Hubwood Ha, a classic. Beats whatever is on these days
what clickbtait? what was there?
@@TabalugaDragon AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 395
All the key words to maximize marketing/SEO lol
@@NootNoot. oh I thought you meant the video name.
Amd is targeting handhelds and mini pc that cant fit a dedicated gpu.
AMD dedicated GPU sales alone is disappointing to say the least. At this rate, developers will never care about AMD GPU's.
The CEO's plan is to get as many AMD gpu into the hands of consumers so that game developers will take amd gpu optimizations more seriously in the future.
The easiest and fastest way to achieve this is thru a strong integrated GPU for laptops and handhelds.
AMD's aggressive approach on iGPU is a strategy to push mass adoption.
If AMD want game to be optimized more they need to work more closely with developer. Just having more market share is not going to cut it. If anything AMD hardware dominating the major console already give AMD the advantage. This is why kepler hit so hard before. And even after nvidia revise their hardware with maxwell and pascal we still see AMD hardware gain advantage over time (dub as fine wine) as more and more AMD hardware festure being use. But PC is not console. With pc there are driver part that game developer can't access. So when they found out that there are issues they tell hardware maker so they will do something in the drivers. This is where AMD problem is. They were selective about which game they want to fix. Most often AMD only focus on triple A only.
i think AMD Strix Halo is amd ryzen 780m with less power cosumption that all ...less power cosumption longer battery life no thermal isu and have potential as 780m that is reversionary for portable device that can easily put in your pocket or on your wirst as a watch or wristband that is future for gaming device it portable
Nah Strix Halo is the opposite. It's for workstations and powerful laptops in the first place. We will see how it does with low power ...
You're right that if Strix Halo is priced higher than a CPU+DGPU combo then it will be a commercial failure, so that's why they're not going to price it extremely high. Not saying it'll be cheap but AMD always undercuts the competition by a slim margin.
Right now Strix Point costs much more than Hawk Point because it does much more. The price might go down a little thanks to Intel's competition next month with Arrow Lake mobile. But IIRC, Intel's Arrow Lake mobile has issues with NPU numbers. :/
Strix point costs more than some rtx 4060 laptops and a rtx 4060 laptop is much faster than the Radeon 890m igpu
AMD is going on the Apple road with this.
Well, Apple's chips consume less power.
@@PurpleWarlock true. But until now you couldn't have a slim powerfull laptop, without buying someting with dGPU inside where the fan sounds like a plane all the time. Just like with the Zephyrus line-up. Now you can have like a 1.5kg 16" laptop good at anything.
Yeah but 100W TDP need a somewhat capable cooling system as well. That's usually not silent... Especially since it's on one little chip and not divided into two chips...
@@Hubwood we will see. HP already is making a 14" Omnibook and ASUS a new Flow tablet.
@@mariussm7797 yeah I know about the flow and will probably get one of them before release 😊
I think it's absolutely possible for AMD to make a highly powerful APU at 15w or less. They don't because there's no competition. This is the same mistake companies make again and again.
no competition??? who say no competition there is sign of warning from Intel with their latest chip ARC B580 gpu if they can turn this non powerful gpu to very powerful gpu that a sign they can compete with AMD with less power cosumption and very powerful chips they also can make it happen..it always been Intel is the one who compete with AMD in any APU making...sure now they show to the world with their Intel Arc B580
How many handhelds and consoles came with Arc?
Only msi sell a few and im sure the sales are poor
Intel shud step up their Celestial igpu and make it beating rtx3050/gtx 1080 in raster then AMD might compete again@@kurttis8512
Who doesnt want to game in 1080p with AFMF2 if the igpu is close to rx6600 class💪🤴
The ROG Ally failed to out perform the Steam Deck with multiple times more on paper performance, and you still think we have an energy head room at not 30 watts, but 15 watts???
😭😭😭😭😭😭
I'm waiting UDNA in AMD APU and SoC
AMD split GCN into RDNA and CDNA following Nvidia's HUGE success splitting their gaming and server architectures.
AMD reunifying their architectures means one thing: they are saving money and engineers by giving up gaming, read between the lines and don't blindly believe what companies say.
😂🤣
BTW, I forgot to mention. If this BS with the soldered RAM continues, that's for me good enough reason to not bother. But that's just me. Now if you will excuse me, I am going to play one last round on my mid tier gaming laptop from 2014 with my i7-4710HQ.
and your doing that while on battery power alone at 60+fps? Last time I had a gaming laptop with dgpu the max performance I could get while on battery was 30fps and would only last half an hour at most. With the new strix apus I can finally have a laptop that can play modern games at 60+fps for at least 2 hours. That's amazing!!
@@mr.simulator4724 LOL don't expect high battery life while gaming on those iGPUs. It'll be higher than dGPUs, sure, but it still won't be high, and it'll probably be lower than gaming on modern, low end iGPUs.
@@TabalugaDragon actually it's really good, this person tested on gpd pocket 4 which has 45Wh battery and got 1hr 41min ruclips.net/video/FWo4xElfKgE/видео.html but with something like a vivobook s 14 which has 75Wh battery you can naturally get a lot more ruclips.net/video/2-ldxXNDKp4/видео.htmlsi=5GqI7NfYUH64Rthn With dgpus don't even bother try to game on battery, you need to be plugged in and portability goes out the window.
Nah, especially laptops with low power dGPUs like an RTX 4060 at 35W for example can do very well on battery sometimes. I managed to get up to two hours on some laptops with very good FPS (like 70%-90% of the plugged in performance if they have a larger battery) Usuall the BIG dGPUS can't cope with the power once they're on battery ...
@@Hubwood right but with the strix you limit the wattage to 15w for the whole apu without much performance loss and get like 4hrs of gaming. check the vivobook video. I doubt with 35w on dgpu plus another 10 or so watts on the cpu will get you even 1hr of gaming, maybe 30min