Dolby Vision vs HDR10+ (Plus) is NOT A Format War, Says BDA
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- We spoke with the BDA (Blu-ray Disc Association) at the IFA 2017 consumer electronics trade show in Berlin, and they explained why the newly introduced HDR10+ (HDR10 Plus) dynamic metadata platform does not create a format war versus Dolby Vision.
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First!
Jump to 11:49 for the BDA's explanation, but we would appreciate you watching the entire video as you may find other interesting info. :-)
Your passion and knowledge of Televisions technology is superb.
HDTVTest vincent i have lg e6 oled tv in isf darkroom setting is artifacts pixelated but isf brightroom is not what could be the problem
HDTVTest was that a Rolex?
Yes. :-)
HDTVTest Hi Vincent. You mention that Technicolor in the list of HDR formats. Are they coming out with one in the future?
Because at present I was under the impression that it was just a picture preset for SDR/HDR content. E.g. The latest beta FW on the LG OLED's has the extra Technicolor picture preset alongside Vivid,Game,ISF dark room etc...
It's a format war if all manufacturers of TVs, receivers, and blu-ray players don't have plans to support all formats. So yes, I see it as a format war.
Thanks for the info Vincent.
I've been in this for 40 years and we just keep having these issues.
VHS/Beta, blu-ray/HD DVD. I even have a laser disc player still.
When you explain these issues to an average consumer they have a hard time understanding any of it.
I have waited long enough for new equipment and will buy a Sony 940E and I just ordered a Marantz 7704 preamp processor. Both will support Dolby Vision.
If you wait for everything to always be worked out you'll never have a equipment. Such a pain.
Thank you Vincent, hope you enjoyed your trip. It is such a hassle for us consumers with these format wars.
Just came across your site. You do a fantastic job!! Being an Aviation Geek I especially enjoyed your flight sequence. Thanks again!
Always appreciate those bits of personal information about yourself and the vlog like nature some of your videos have. Besides the great and Professional quality content of course.
Keep it up :)
DTS and Dolby have this going on with audio. I've never had a situation where I couldn't play surround sound and neither format won out.
Sure, these companies will be competing on standards, but it's always good to have more competition in the marketplace. Having cheaper alternatives like HDR10 are important to the widespread adoption of HDR content since Dolby Vision and HDR10+ require a lot more processing which raises costs in TVs and Blu-ray players. The more alternatives, the more the general public can get in on the action.
As you explain, an HDR10+ film is still an HDR10 film under-the-hood so it can be supported by any set of equipment.
Finally, someone explained that HDR10 is a part of all 4k dvds. So no need to worry about losing HDR
Great video as always Vincent - and also really enjoying seeing your video work in China - very well edited :)
Is it out of the question that the 2017 OLEDs would receive f/w to support HDR 10+ (i e. Sony a1)? If they could handle dolby vision dynamic meta data couldn't they handle the equivalent for the HDR 10 format?
Great explanation. Fully agree with your personal comment. There is definitely a format war. Maybe the normal user will not notice, but for the technical enthusiasts buying into the expensive equipment, there is certainly a decision to be made.
It's a format war PERIOD. No matter how they sugar coat it.
Same as DTS-MA vs DolbyTrueHD. If the source supports either one of those format and your processing device (receiver etc) can support the other one then you will get the old lossy compressed audio fallback format (you'll end up listening to the 'lower quailty' DTS or DD). The good thing is receivers/processors have been supporting both for the longest time- remember in the early days when some receivers still did not support DTS-MA? Now we already have the Dolby Atmos and DTS:X war going on (again most 2016 and newer receivers support both).
With HDR10+ and DolbyV you'll end up having to watch the 'lower quality' HDR10 fallback format. My guess is like the lossless audio format war - devices (players, receivers, TV) will soon support both format but for us early adopters we're pretty much screwed.
Anyway Vincent thanks for the great info and clearing up some of the questions a lot of us have.
well it has been a year since you made your statement and I don't know of any tv that supports both dv and HDR10+. I don't know if any receivers support both formats either for that matter.
@@thelanterns It's a couple of tvs that support both. Vizio has some and the hisense H8F and the new one coming in July supports both formats.
Nice video Vincent ...curious though, what camera are you using? Its video quality is excellent...
It's a Panasonic micro 4-3rd with a very good lense.
Lens
I expect we will see a lot of discs that are HDR10 base layer with both HDR10+ and DV enhancement layers. As long as you master in DV it should be pretty easy to output the other two formats.
despite expectations, it is now near the end of 2018 and there is NO source material from anywhere that incorporates HDR10+. 20th Century and Warner Bros. was supposed to add it to their discs a long time ago, but still nothing.
Situation very well explained, but 3 years later and the best and safer option is to buy everything that supports both Dolby Vision vs HDR10+ if you don't want to be left behind and forgotten in the HDR format... at least when it comes to 4K HDR Blu-ray discs and players, the display can be either one or the other, whichever display brand or HDR format you currently think is being better and widely applied.
Thanks Vincent.
One theoretical question: Is it likely that Apple TV could update to HDT10plus via software, or would it be necessary to wait for possible new version with improved firmware?
Cheers
Nice video again Vincent, thanks for your time and expertise.
I'm on the market for an LG OLED with Dolby Vision support, after seeing this video I start to realise that probably Samsung will drive the market most likely towards HDR10+, in our local Media Markt (big AV retailer), they've already moved out all the LG OLEDS and replaced 70% of their TV floor space with a huge SAMSUNG booth. Do you think my worries are valid?
Until my 2017 LG C7 and Oppo UDP-203 can be firmware updated to HDR10+ (which I very much doubt) then it's a format war in my opinion.
Paul Glimmer
Totally agree and my Sony 940 d and my oppo 205. Wtf.
Paul Glimmer you already have hdr10,dolbyvision if you did get hdr10+ then there will probably be another format arter that another so on and so on
Paul Glimmer you get all these formats next thing you know here comes another format like maybe vr-hdr it never ends
Paul Glimmer you can bet that another format is being worked on
The oppo will probably be upgraded to HDR10+ this should be a universal player. LG could also support it and beat Samsung as the universal HDR tv, they have also committed to being universal HDR compatible
Great video vincent trying to figure what lg oled to get 2016 or 2017
Hi Vincent I am looking at buying eather an Lg oled C8 or a Sony Oled A8F tv but I want my tv to support dolby Vision or HDR10+ but I am not sure which is better Dolby vision or HDR10+?
Brilliant video txs.
Do you think 18:9 tv coming soon?
No.
Hi Vincent! Another great video, thanks.
I have a question, im have an lg c7 and a dolby vision passthrough receiver.
Im now looking into buying a new uhd player, i have the samsung k8500 now and im looking at either the Oppo 203 or one of the Panasonic players.
Should i go for the Oppo and use the most of my new setup and get Dolby Vision or buy the Panasonic for better PQ and wait til the 'war' settles?
Get the OPPO 203 for Dolby Vision. Panasonic 4K Blu-ray players' better PQ is marginal except for HDR to SDR conversion, which you'll unlikely need.
HDTVTest thanks! I was leaning towards the oppo so the oppo it is :)
It is ,indeed,a format war...just like HD-DVD and bluray all over again...I am one of the ones who was an early adopter and invested $1000`s in HD-DVD movies,just to see bluray win out as Sony bought off all the studios one by one....all this is orchestrated by the movie studios,as well as the bluray and tv manufacturers...all the same people who refuse to make blurays and even DVD`s fill out the screens on our $3000 tv`s..I am SO OVER seeing black bars at the top and bottom of my screen...!!It pisses me off to no end to go out and put down $35 to $40 for a 4K bluray movie and get it home...put it in the player and the previews(if any) and even the menu is in full screen...but then you get to the actual movie...and there are those bars again....I KNOW they can master a disc to play in a way that will fill a 55" widescreen tv properly...
@HDTVTest Do you know if the Pansonic 2017 OLED TVs will get an update to HDR10+ in the future? Im interested in the Panasonic EZW954 (EU) but i dont want to buy it if only the 2018 OLEDs have HDR10+ support.
In your opinion why is it that every manufacturer isn't adopting Dolby Vision? Is it just strictly not wanting to pay or is there anyway that HDR10+ is superior?
Not wanting to pay or allow Dolby a total monopoly.
Would have been nice if you would have explained what is the specs of HDR10 and HDR10 Plus. What's the difference?
Since i found your chanel i have been properly binge watching alot of your videos xD Fantastic content. Finished my cinima setup yesterday finnaly. LG C7, LG SJ9 and Oppo udp-203 must admit i feel like ive died and gone to heaven!
IMO it's no more a format war than Dolby Digital vs DTS was. In the end, both formats will be supported by the majority of displays and media players.
Hi Vincent. You mention that Technicolor in the list of HDR formats. Are they coming out with one in the future?
Because at present I was under the impression that it was just a picture preset for SDR/HDR content. E.g. The latest beta FW on the LG OLED's has the extra Technicolor picture preset alongside Vivid,Game,ISF dark room etc...
Yes, Technicolor has a HDR format, which is not the same as the Technicolor picture preset.
Hey Vincent, where in China have you been? Can you share some details about your presentation?
Great explanation of the difference between Dolby Vision and HDR ... as well as what it is and compatibility .. 👍🏾👍🏾🍻🍻 ..
Hey Vincent,
?
my 2016 OLED also has the Dynamic Contrast feature, does enabling that setting help with tone-mapping at all for HDR10 based content?
No, sorry.
Please can you find out if the Panasonic UB900 will support HDR10 plus in the future
Can't beat it when you pronounce the words ' spectacular highlights' , it's just beautiful 🙌
HDTVTest I hope you can answer a question that I have regarding tv firmware updates for HDR10+. I was wondering if HDR10+ can be added with an update, similarly to the way that Dolby Vision can and will be added to certain 2017 Sony tvs (X930E and above). I have a X930E and hope that it will be possible for HDR10+ to be added later on. Also since Samsung has formed a kind of partnership with Microsoft, I'm also wondering if the Xbox One X may also receive an HDR10+ update, eventually. Do you think that would be possible? Lastly, I've heard that HDR10+ requires higher bandwidth than what's possible with HDMI 2.0a/2.0b. Does this mean that if a tv doesn't have HDMI 2.1, that updating it to add HDR10+ won't be possible?
If you could answer any of these questions that would be fantastic and I enjoy your videos. I have learned a great deal from watching. :)
Hailey...I just talked to a Panasonic dealer today and asked that very question, except I asked if DV could be added to a Panasonic OLED via a firmware update? He said NO because it would require actual hardware parts/chip added to the tv. I assume the same would be the case if trying to add HDR10+ to a DV tv.
See that this video is a year old...thanks for the explanation! Quick question: If I have Xbox One X which supports HDR/10, but I have a TV that supports Dolby Vision, will Xbox be able to utilize it to some extent or I have to get a TV that supports HDR10 and DV?
You need Dolby Vision compatible tv to get any benefit
Happy travels Vincent. Brilliant vid 👍
we used to think less nits was a good thing esp at school but now the more nits the better.
i have just upgraded and personaly i can say HDR is just as much of a benifit as 4k in fact i think they complement each orther very nicely.
You deserve more subs! 😭
You're awesome, Vincent! Thanks for all your hard work and great videos!
HDTVTest.. Can you please provide an update on the 2016 KS9000 Samsung TV's receiving the HDR10+ firmware update? According to Samsung's press release in April of 2017, we were supposed to receive the update by the end of 2017.
Another good report thanks Vincent
Sooo... if I just bought an LG OLED E7 tv (that included Dolby Vision), which UHD player should I get? Should I just get an Xbox One X or get a dedicated Dolby Vision player even though the movies I may want to watch don't support Dolby Vision? This is dumb.
Hello Vincent... recently discovered your channel - an easy subscription to very informative resource - thank you for taking the time to educate us all.
I wish you would make a video of all the disc players and televisions that are HDR neutral....that can play both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision.
Hi there and thank you for your informative videos. I have a question for you that I hope you can help me with regarding hdr 10 plus. I have a Panasonic Ex700 50 inch TV that I bought 2 weeks ago, it's a 2017 model. I also bought a Sony UDP X800 ultra HD bluray player. Whilst I doubt either will ever get Dolby Vision firmware updates (even if they are capable), do you think both or either one may get a firmware update for hdr 10 plus? Thank you.
Very very unlikely, sorry.
HDTVTest Thank you for your reply. That is such a pity because I imagine that technically both could very likely support it. Samsung are updating all of their 2017 tvs to hdr10 plus and I imagine that a few of those models are on the same level as Panasonic's ex700. As for Sony and their ubp x800, well I suppose Sony won't because they are putting Dolby Vision into their high end tvs and most likely will launch compatible players next year. It's a sad state of affairs that even now after the coming of '4k' that consumers are buying products that are not even remotely future proof. Especially sad when some future proofing can technically be provided by firmware updates.
bought an LG E7 this year, should I be worried now regarding HDR10+ development?
No.
does the Samsung Q90T also have problems with VRR 120 Hz like LG OLED CX?
Thanks for explaining! I see the point, as it's not like a console war, where a PS4 game literally won't play in an XBox, but it is a format war. Sounds like they can help us consumers out by just updating firmware once in a while. If you can "add" Dolby Vision with an update, then we should be able to "add" HDR10+. After all, I did turn my 2015 Samsung 8550 into an HDR set with a "evolution kit" that was basically a one connect box and a firmware update... actually, after all of this, I really appreciate Samsung offering consumers this capability for a $6000 USD panel. I do remember reading a review for the Samsung 2015 HU8550 being "dynamic metadata ready" back in 2015... How much do you think is "marketing" versus an incremental improvement in quality?
Gabe Trinidad yes I'm wondering if my Js 8500 Samsung 4K HDR TV would be able to do that hdr10 Plus
Jack Farias I will see what I can find out, and try to find a link to the review.
So how do Samsung Television respond to Dolby Vision Content?? How do they Look?? What are they doing with the Metadata... Just ignoring it?? I didnt realize the 4 World was going to have so many Flavors... Lets pick a Format and be done with it..Im currently in the Market for a Q80R and the lack of DV support could sway me over to Sony 950G...
I have the same problem when I go to the USA, I was in Vegas once and called room service at 3am to order a plate of chips because I was hungry and couldn't sleep ( also UK resident )
Some time later... which one is better, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision?
Dolby vision edges out HDR10+ with their 12 bit processing. Will you notice on the fly while watching a movie? In some cases maybe, but not as much as you’d hope. Vincent also mentions the end to end dynamic tone mapping that DV has.
HDR10 plus does that also 😂. Both does dynamic mapping its just Dolby has the color edge. They basically look the same to the avg consumer
@@greenghost2212 I know I'm late to the party but isn't it also true that there is plethora of dolby vision content available but one couldn't say that for hdr 10 +.
Thank you for the information, Vincent!
love all your content and get excited whenever you post a new vid,....was hoping i can get your 2 cents on a first world problem im having,....trying to decide which tv i should get,...im currently on an 11 year old sony bravia kdl52xbr4 and am eager to finally join in the 4k hdr age,.....my choices are the 65inch sony z9d or the 75inch 940e,....any input would greatly be appreciated,....thanks in advance.
tatiti - If you buy one of those, you're buying OLD technology - again. BAAAAD Choices. OLED is the ONLY way to go in almost everyone's opinion. Or are you one of those who wait for the next TV to come out, then end up buying nothing and watching a rubbish picture for another 11 years?! Wait another 5 years tatito and micro LED will be out! Then wait another xx years for something else! Or are you just another Sony fanboy? If so, A1 is your TV.
Look at his video reviews, i believe he has covered already the z9d & 940e.
my neighbor has an oled lg,....and out of respect i dont like to offend people so i never bring it up to him about the abl on his tv being horrible,....my 11 year OLD TECH tv has better brightness than his one year old oled,...dont get me wrong oleds age good tvs and the day they figure out a way to raise the nits level it will be the only type of tv on the market,but i have grown accustomed to that certain "pop" of highlights that high brightness nits give,...even moreso now with hdr,...my xbr4 is a fantastic tv no where near rubbish,...the ONLY reason im even getting a new tv is because of 4k and hdr.i work and sweat very hard for my money as most of us do and for me $4500.00 is a lot of money and if im going to spend that much im going to so some c.s.i.,sherlock holmes type investigation before i do,..leaning more on the 940e side,....75 inches form a 52inch tv would be epic,....thanks for the response.
Hi is Panasonic DX900 capeable of DR10+ or Dolby Vision ?
Hi Vincent if I want to get a hold of you how do I contact you?
Most of the studios appear to be fine with paying the 3 dollar royalty fee to Dolby. Many display manufacturers were fine with paying the fee, three current UHD Blu-ray player with Sony possibly joining next year.
Next year, won't be a display or UHD player that won't HDR10+ capable, because if you have the horsepower to decode Dolby Vision you'll have it for HDR10+. On the HDMI front all, 2018 models display and player, will have HDMI 2.1 ports.
wrong on both counts, very few players support HDR10+. HDMI 2.1 is still rare.
I don't understand the BDA's argumant at all as to why this "isn't" considered a format war. Why on earth would anyone bother with Dolby Vision, when they could just use HDR10+ that does the exact same thing, but without having to pay a Dolby Vision tax to do so? No production studio is going to choose to pay more money for no reason. So eventually, they won't even bother encoding DV on to the disc, since both HDR10+ and DV already use the same base HDR10 in the first place. and everyone will end up switching to HDR10+ TVs and players. It's not a format war right now, because HDR10+ isn't even out yet, but once it arrives, they will already win by default.
It’s kind a sad that no TV beside super expensive ones have Dolby Vision, HDR 10+ and HDMI 2.1
This would be quite a future proof TV.
But as far i know no TV meanwhile has all 3 things.
Well now we have the views of the Oligarchs. But you did not mention the view of the consumers. I already have a HD Blu-ray player with Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos, and an LG TV with build in decoders for those formats. The HD Blu-ray HD films we already buy, supports those formats.
As I see it HDR10+ is the Oligarchs attempt to rob Dolby of their Dolby Vision fees! So they can make more money of the consumers.
From a consumer angle, HDR10+ is of no interest!! If they sell a movie with HDR 10+ and no Dolby Vision, I shall not buy it full priced. maybe at half the price?
HDR10+ is more standard now in 2019 than Dolby Vision. And both look damn near the same
Dolby vision looks horrible on my tv😭 is there anyway to get back to the older version firmware on the LG UP970 player? I like HDR 10 better
I'd do a factory reset and make sure your settings are correct. I've NEVER heard of HDR10 beating out DV so I'm assuming something is wrong in the chain.
Francisco - Maybe your TV, which you don't mention btw, doesn't support it. Simples.
What about HLG? Also does the olede7p handle hdr10+?
Wait....HDR10+ or Dolby Vision, wont pass thru my AV receiver?
If you use a vpn you Can access all those websites that you said you can’t. Just turn on the VPN and use a provider from the United States and then you can access anything you want like normal. I would think you would know that you probably do but there’s probably a reason why you can’t use it right
This guy is like the elctro boom of the TV world lol.
my question is will my Lg6e be able to show hdr10+ when play, an are there any upgrade coming from lg.
Very very very unlikely.
Bro i want to buy Samsung 8000serie what u think about is dat goed tv for looking movie or games ps4 pro wil be looking beautiful the picture quality on thuis tv so please help to.my goed choose waiting for ur respons buy
Sony alarm clock (biased) 😁 Peanuts and drink were probably expensive. (Oh, China) Have we done an HDR10 "Plus" vs Dolby Vision video yet?
Hay HDTV TEST ur all video sooo nice ur all video i am must watching
Hello HDTV test, sorry invading your space, but I have a £600 budget and I wanted to upgrade my TV the problem is that I don't know if I should buy a 4k TV or 1080p. I'm buying in 2nd hand. Can someone please help me?
Thanks
Frederico Eusebio You can buy a brand new Sony 900E for around that! Excellent tv! It is 4K HDR.
Does mu9000 9 series samsung tv good with ps4 pro gaming please i need someone help ...
What's the best 4k player rightnow?
Jonathan Watts oppo, Sony , Xbox one s
In my opinion
Get Here maps. Offline maps with brilliant routing including public transit incase you get anxious leaving the hotel again! Download the offline map before you leave. :)
Okay so HDR10 + won’t be available on 2017 LG B7
Any Tips on calibrating an Epson 5040ub ?
Thanks
Yeah - TIP it into the bin :-)
Does the try to calibrate the screens on the plane?
Vicent is a guru!
It's 3 am man... U woke me up lol
That looks like fun Vincent.
2024 here. The landscape is still not clear. Camp DoVi and camp HDR10+. And now its getting worse with some shows being released only in HDR10+.
Great video Vincent, production values seem to be raising the bar each time. When ever you mention Dynamic Meta Data I always seem to think of this scene from Terminator 2. :D
ruclips.net/video/Fa4Jq7gJvZ0/видео.html
What do you think we can look forward to in 2018 in terms of either new standard features across all makes or new improved features?
I'm still using a Sony Bravia KDL-50W829B and a Sony Blu-ray player. I'm just waiting for a decent LG OLED at an affordable price to hit which won't be out of date in 12 months. I used to be an early adopter of new technology, but the rate of change is too fast and expensive now to keep up.
I'm interested to see what Panasonic has for us as a replacement to their flagship 4K UHD player.
Has Vincent been going to film school?
No.
Why should some vendors not simply support both? Then there would be no war and people could buy TV sets from some brand that supports both.
erazorCTF Because Dolby vision charge a fee for the software support. While HDR10 it's open software.
imarcoi123 that is no reason. Why not include hdr+ on top of Dolby Vision when hdr+ almost costs next to nothing anyways. Not much to loose with also adding hdr+ if the tv brand wanted to include the costly Dolby Vision anyways...
@@erazorCTF 🤦🏿♂️ HDR10+ is identical to Dolby vision. If u got HDR10 plus then u really don't need Dolby vision
@@greenghost2212 Sorry, but that is wrong. They have similar features but are not compatible or interchangeable. If content is encoded in DolbyVision (like lots of shows on Netflix) and your TV does not support it, then you see it in plain HDR10 only, and not with dynamic metadata in HDR10+.
@@erazorCTF 🤦🏿♂️ Netflix don't even have HDR10 plus content my dude 😂. They only have regular HDR10 or Dolby vision. Amazon has both and i watch HDR10 plus content daily. They support Dolby vision too.
We'll see if it's a war if they both survive, I think only dolby vision will.
How come our planes don’t look like that or have food like that?
I'm betting on HDR+ being the standard fox backing and Disney just bought them
Ok, I'm not buying any 4K HDR10+ just cause I want Dolby Vision wins this war!
that means your not buying any TV's from Samsung or Panasonic, they do not support DV
All I want is 4K! picture I dont care about HDR/+ or Dolby Vision.
You will once you see it in person.
LG A7 mini review please... Great job
Is that supposed to be an indie movie channel or review channel??? What the hell are those intros? :D
Spoiler alert: Dolby Vision won
Fake news dude,. , HDR 10+. Won , samsung NEO 12bit
Cool house, cool bathroom.
God bless.
Please say something about the new Apple TV 4K and Dolby Vision Movies Support from iTunes Movies !
Samsung needs to support my 65" 4k UHD curved 2015 with HDR 10 and Dolby vision. I know I didn't pay $3,000 to be left out of what's standard....
Chris P. Bacon that’s why you never adopt early stages of technology especially tv’s !
This is why new technology never gets any where. Greedy asses want their piece of pie or want their own pie.
Just like blu ray vs hd dvd . damn
Ps another good video and information. Tyvm.
RON B the war never ends,hdr,dolbyvision, hdr10+,hlg,ater all these you can bet there will be something else
RON B like vr-hdr (virtual reality)
Dolby, dts, THX... i personally dont see this hdr10+ as a competition to dolby vision..
Yeah ok watch jack Ryan on Amazon with HDR10+. I like the show now because of how much detail I see when I watch it. They are damn near identical
I see the creators being able to access all these Formats, their will not 1 top format. Gaming will do HDR 10, Movies will get to pick what they want their movies to be in. All TV channels will be in HLG in the future, their is no War.
Joeki11a after all these formats,itll be some other format popping up like vr-hdr
Way too much “fluff”
A polo and cargo shorts in bed? LOL
hdr pro is not the same to hdr+