Due to the formula for striking force, F = 1/2(Mass x Velocity^2), a 2x increase in the speed of a mass toward the ball and target will result in 4x more force available to compress the ball. The mass at the end of the club head is actually the least significant one in the golf swing. The mass of the entire body and the mass of the lead arm which flies off the chest before impact dragging club head through ball like a Trebuchet are as significant or more so than any slight differences in mass between club A and club B. Most discussion of mass and velocity in a swing focuses on the club head but if you stop and consider the goal behind “staying connected” (i.e., pinning lead arm across chest) during the takeaway and downswing you’ll realize how much dragging force that pinned mass of the lead arm generates if the golfer understands how to keep it straight and pinned tight across the chest create fulcrum which increases its mechanical efficiency. The action which causes the arm to fly off chest violently in mid downswing just before club head and face reach the ball and square to target respectively is that sensation the lead hip and shoulders hitting an invisible wall which abruptly stops them until the golfer releases their back foot off the ground which allows hips and shoulders to keep turning. In real time the pause causing the arm to fly off isn’t seen but the physics is the same as what happens to an unbelted passenger in a car crash when the car abruptly stops moving. So how does that relate to club swing weight? Timing. Ideally you want the arm to fly off the chest just as the club swinging around the hands reaches inside of center on the ball relative to the target with a slightly open face so the arm flying off the chest will pull hands and still closing club head face into the ball just like a Trebuchet whips its projectile in a sling around the primary lever arm when it is released. Differences in swing weight and shaft flex in the club for a given golfer will affect their ability to deliver the club head and face to the ball at precisely the ideal time and face angle as “hitting the wall” triggers the firing of the lead arm and the increase in acceleration which golfers who have the knowledge and practiced skill to do get but recreational golfers don’t - why advanced golfers hit the ball much further with Driver and further and higher with more loft spin for vertical stuck landings than weekend hackers. Since there is little to no possibility for weekend hackers to develop that necessary skill and timing they get better results - compared to a smaller, lighter mass MB design) swinging more massive club heads with softer shafts which made it easier for them to create the bend in shaft at the top and maintain it all the way to impact despite their less than optimal swing mechanics. I started playing golf in 1983 the year after the then revolutionary PING EYE 2 clubs hit the market and became very popular because of their greater mass self-aligning to swing arc high MOI mass distribution, the concept Karsten Solheim invented with his 1A and Anser putters and original PING Eye irons twenty years earlier. But it was only after amateurs and pros started using them and winning with them they became popular. The “game improvement” genre of clubs was largely in response to the huge increase of interest in the game in the 1990s created by Tiger Woods. “Forgiveness” became a marketing buzzword which was not really understood by those who fell for the marketing and bought their first set of clubs at Costco in the 1990s because many had never even tried to swing or play with more traditional blade iron design. My first set in 1983 were B Browning Premiere irons and stainless 5w, 3w, Driver with whippy metal shafts so I was aware of the difference when trying a set of ‘game improvement” clubs with big heads and carbon shafts in the 1990s. Compared to my Brownings they felt like swinging bricks on the end of a stick but I was just a weekend hacker and unable to generate the swing speed needed for blades and stay in balance at the same time, which is the formula for hitting long shots and then spending a lot of time in the rough, woods or next fairway looking for them. After retiring in 2008 I took a part time job as a starter so I could play for free, which I started to do daily. I got rid of the “game improvement” irons and instead bought and regripped set of circa 1978 Wilson Reflex irons which had very small but very light mass head and it was with those clubs I learned how to use that F = 1/2 (Mass x Velocity^2) formula and the Trebuchet technique to full advantage. Now at age 69 I’m using a set if PING S57 irons and 9° driver with stiff shafts 😄
I think it would be amazing to re-shoot this video w/Matt. Take matt's gamers and then build the a higher and lower swing weight version to really quantify the effects on delivery and maybe ball flight.
Swing weight is something most people don't think about until you become aware of it. I went from D4 to E0 and actually gained club head speed and distance with my irons. The heavy weight really keeps my swing on plane, especially on take away, as well and reduced my miss left.
Seems like it was very important and something to always be aware of. I’d love to see a video of swing weight changes from regular to one or two extra wraps, or midsize grips based on grams.
I know if I swing anything less than a D4 i will start shanking it. I cant stay away from the heel. My normal SW for irons are D6.5. My driver Is a D7 and my wedges are E1. I am not a crazy big person, 6'1", 210 lbs, fit. I like to feel the club head. I think the main thing it does for me is I have very fast hips, so with a heavier sw it slows my tempo down. But i do not sacrifice distance.
Worth mentioning for those that are interested. One way to build clubs and increase swing weight without adding too much static weight overall is to soft step shafts. This can shift balance point enough to allow for some extremely light and troublesome build. A perfect example is attempting to swing weight steel fibers shafts in lighter blades heads when using mid size grips.
Great video, as usual guys. Please keep this amazing content coming. Idea/question for future video...what are your thoughts on MOI matching vs. Swing weighting? I'm curious to know if there's any possible advantage to building out a set that's MOI matched vs swing weight matched? I think that would make a great video, and if there are any myths to MOI matching being any better/more consistent that using a swing weight scale. Thanks!
I come from tennis, and swing weight affects the huge part of the game. Most pros use a heavy racket that feels heavy in the handle for easier maneuver, in the other hand for game improvement one the racket will be lighter but the weight may move to the face of the racket for easy power.
I'd really like for you guys to revisit this subject with Matt, and less variables. I've seen a couple tables of data online, but Matt's a machine, I'd like to see how much his launch angle, peak height, spin, ball speed, strike pattern and dispersion are affected through different swing weights. Love you guys' work, watch a video from yall's channel nearly everyday.
its an important part if youf fitting and tuning your own clubs,i always tweak to my preferred swingweight with lead tape to get it where its perfect for me,nice vid
I've have a set of Miura Tournament blades at d3 and a set of King forged MB's at d6... I always switch them out every couple months or so and after 2 rounds I'm dialed in.. I think your body will naturally adapt to whatever club u play and idk if it matters as much as people think.
It matters more than you realize and your comment just verified it. Your body will adjust to the club in your hands(even if it doesn't fit your body). The reason you want to get fitted is because the club is supposed to adjust to your body. We all have very specific patterns and motions in Our turn Arm swing Wrist cock Leg action If a club is off by 2 grams in the wring place our body will adjust by stalling, flipping, over turning etc. Many swing flaws simply an effect of portly fit clubs.
@@jacobr4558 the average golfer shoots 100. They can barely tell difference between shaft flex. Hardly any1 is that dialed in that 2 grams makes a significant difference to their golf.game. I wouldn't even consider myself that dialed in and i am a 5hcp. The level of fitting ur talking about is like NCAA/mini tour/pro, where it would make a difference, and i can verify that
It's not about the player being dialed in it's about the fitter. The golf swing basically comes down to how much you want to use your wrist. And how your body coordinates the Motions of the wrists on cocking and uncocking. Dechambeau in his college swing Barely Used any wrist so he needed lighter swing weight heavier grips etc. Whereas long drive guys are more in the E range because they're really snapping their wrist to get speed. So it's not about the golfer understanding what all his mechanics are doing but it's about the fitter understanding what his mechanics are doing because they're very different! The golf teaching and fitting industry is such a joke right now! People are so clueless as to how to swing and how Equipment Works at all. Yet they are charged crazy prices for poor instruction and poor fitting. It's very sad
I have KBS $-taper 120 S shafts. I cut them 0.5" shorter and put on a Lamking Corssline oversize + 74g (used standard grips, weighted 50g) and added 4g of lead tape on the shaft beneath grip. Now the 5, 6, 7, 8 irons like C2-C2 (D2 is standard) and 9 iron is C3 (D3 is standard) and Pw is C4 (D4 is standard). Total weight added with 22 grams. I have never hit my irons so good like I'm doing now. My Attack angel is 3-4.9 deg down with 7 iron. My PW is 4-5.5 down at impact. Last session with the 7 iron I had a avg club path was 0.4 in to out and the club was open with 1. I hit nice small pull fades without doing anything. It just happened. I have always liked heavier irons for some reason until I started to experiment with swing weight by adding heavier grips and using lead tape.
SW matters as long as you talk head weight. I removed 1 of the 2 weights on my Mizuno JPX 850 (8g off), and it became much more easier to hit. Likewise with my 4 and 7 woods (15g off by my clubfitter !) and currently I rediscover the pleasure of playing those clubs while I was wondering for new ones.
I went from a ~D3 swing weight to ~C8 just by going from standard grips to the GP MCC+4 midsize grips.... the result? I went from hitting my nice, PREDICTABLE, baby draws down the middle to flat pull hooking EVERYTHING 10-15 yards left (sometimes worse)! maybe a couple swing weights diff doesn't matter much as long as you are ABOVE D1 or so, but when you drop from the "standard" D3 down into the C's, it makes a diff and you can't tell me otherwise - I know it first hand! =) A better test for Cam would've been to give him his D3 then give him a club at C8-9, I'd pay money to see that kind of test!
Troy Paradiso exactly. And when you add length or cut off that really changes swing weight as well. I cut 3/4 inch off my new 3W HL M2 TaylorMade and bought a lighter grip to increase the swing weight
It’s completely dependent on the player. There’s no hard and fast rule that says lower swing weight = x results. I’ve tested from c8 to d8 back and forth and hit them both the exact same. If I have a heavier shaft I prefer a lighter swing weight. If I have a light shaft I prefer a slightly heavier swing weight. That’s strictly my feel preference. As far as shot results I had no noticeable difference. But I’ve also seen players strike location change drastically going too light or too heavy for them.
The swing weight is very important. I 5’9”. But with very long legs, so my hip is higher than normal, if a I bend with the standard clubs, my golf posture gets the weight to the front and there is no way I can shift my weight in a full swing. So even with my normal height I need clubs at least 1 inch longer than normal. I just learn that one inch if your lenghten your club it will change 6 swing weight, making it heavier.
Very interesting that there seems to be a lack of explanation of the physics or the biomechanics of different swing weights with the same club how that effects the timing of the swing especially the transition off the top. Through practice, I have found that a heavier swing weight slightly delays the transition more so than a lighter swingweight, and therefore affecting the timing and impact. I have a tendency to release the club head too early with a light swing weight and more often I'll hit fat shots.
Im not a believer that you can use a heavier grip to offset a heavy swingweight. I had a set of Mizuno MP irons built @ +1/2" and they used B-weight heads (minus ~6g) and the finished set weighed D2. I later put on a Lamkin Crossline Midsize (which are pretty heavy for being simple midsize grips) which dropped my swingweight thru the floor - ended up C9. The irons still played like D2, though. They still felt D2, everything was still great on the course. I didn't suddenly think "Wow, these heads are too light now, I can't play them." ...Similarly I had Titleist build a set of CB's but notoriously they don't offer lighter heads to the public, so my build at +1/2" was D5 which is too heavy for me with my preferred DG shafts. I threw on some heavy grips and the scale swingweight fell to D2. BUT they still played like D5 and felt heavy at the head.. In my experience you can't counter balance away a heavy iron head, especially when your gross club weight is significant like in the case of DG X100 built irons. If you hate a heavy irons head, you can't make it go away by tinkering with the butt end IMHO. Love the channel - keep it up.
Precisely. There is swingweight...and there is counter-balancing. And the two ideas are both valid, but completely different when it comes to club building preferences. I'm also finding that I don't have a particular swingweight I can tattoo on my arm and "call my own". I like D2 with a certain shaft. I might like D3 with a heavier shaft ...and I may like D1 with a lighter shaft. And it might be vice versa...still trying to ascertain. It's a moving target and varies based on shaft characteristics.
Station 2Station ... agree, I've trailed and error with grips and back weighting clubs. the swing weight drop, might get better smash factor, but some how, some way, the weight of heavier comes back into play, that pw is still 298grams even if I've manipulated the butt Now, I'm grinding metal to change the weight, had a run with the one length irons and felt what a 265gram pw felt like and was wow'd.
Absolutely. Putting a heavy grip on a club just "tricks" the weight scale more than anything. My clubs are very heavy -- I use 6.5 shafts and jumbo grips -- but because of the shaft balance point and the heavy grips, they are about C7-C9 range. Wedge is D1. But anyone who picked up these clubs would feel like they swing heavy (which I like) because of the high total weight.
Yep, I definitely think this should be done again and vary the length with the weight - so same swing weights different lengths. I'd be fascinated to see Matt driving balls with a shaft that's getting shorter - up to say 2" - but the swing weight stays the same and the shaft is adjusted so it feels the same (- otherwise cutting a shaft down and adding weight will make it more stressed and whippy). I think we'd end up with a driver head functioning just like a 3 Wood length and feel. But hey, would we have created Mat's "Ultimate Fairway Finder" driver for Mat? 10-15 yards shorter, but centred in the fairway?
Hi. Great channel guys. It has really helped give me background to make my fitting session more fruitful. I've looked at several of the videos and have a question on fitting clubs to help re-enforce a swing change. I have recently changed my transition to a shallower downswing and am trying to delay my release. If I wanted to fit clubs that would help re-enforce these feels, would I be right in looking for something with a higher swing weight - to help have my transition from steep to shallow, and a shaft with a stiff tip, to encourage me to hold the release more than I have in the past. I've seen you viewpoint that the shaft helps with timing and wonder if this is the kind of thing you mean?
@Club Champion - Could you make a video showing the extremes of swing weight, i.e.: have 2 identical irons, with one set to the lightest swing weight possible and the other set to the heaviest swing weight possible, and describe what both feel like to hit a golfball. I've read that the lightest swing weight is A0 and the heaviest is F9.
So if I have this correct, this is basically a counterbalance vs tip heavy comparison. As the swing weight would just measure the balance points. Head and grip same weight so balance point of shafts would be the difference. And so possibly someone who has a fade tendency could benifit from a lighter swing weight compared to a hooker could use heavier swing weight to calm that down
Love your channel. The definitive answers clear & concise. My query is? I'm 6"4 and need an inch and half on my irons. If I get a X 6.0 shaft will it make it softer & regular or would it still make it feel heavy.
@@clubchampionmedia Hi Ian great video, I was recently fit for the new titlest mb 620 an inch longer than standard in px 6.5 The swing weight from getting them checked is d9 can you recommend any way to get around this or another manufacturer that might do lighter heads as i am not sure a grip change will bring it down enough i find the weight of the clubs to heavy. I wouldn't want to go past d5
Great work guys. Couple of quick questions about shafts. First: if you see someone with positive AOA with driver (e.g. 5 deg), how would this impact your initial shaft choice (i.e. bend profile) compared to someone with neutral/slightly negative AOA? Secondly, I love my Matrix Program irons shafts (130, 7.0 SS x 1) but am getting toe-down impact (3-5degree) despite increasing lie angle (more upright) with in - to - out club path - would this be shaft droop? If so, you see this at higher swing speeds with graphite shafts? Cheers!!
Hey Tim, long time no see!!!! LOL. First point - I'm really generalizing here because there are so many variables that go into shaft choice but normally with a +5 AoA I'd lean towards a more tip stiff bend profile. Some that would suit you would be - Accra TZX 465 M5, Veylix Rome 688, HZ Black 6.5 62g. Second point - Yes it's very likely Matrix Program would provide more shaft droop than DG X7. Matrix Program was specifically designed for the LPGA Tour with a view of increasing launch and spin. The 7.0 Program is very butt stiff but fairly soft in the tip.
I know this is an old post... But to be fare the sole also played a part 🤔.. Maybe same /same with Matt?.. I'm convinced the increase in swing weight is increasing my spin and reducing my distance 🤔.. Surely it must affect the MOI
Great video. I recently got fitted for irons. Selected the ping i500 irons with project x lz 5.5 flex. It was close between this shaft and the new elevate shaft. Chose the project x because there was no upcharge. Swing weight as tested was d6. I had the fitter purchase the irons stock with my lie and length changes but the swing weight would be whatever it is from the factory. Should I make sure they retro fit the shafts to the same d6 swing weight? FYI I am coming from a d2 swing weight in steelhead xr irons with a stiff xp95 shaft. Loved the feel of the heavier project x and I 500.
My irons have always been D2. I tested out a C9 in the same club and every shot started out right and faded further right. I was leaving the club face open at impact and it's not easy to correct.
So i just started and i have a set of clubs i just bought to get going. I have no clue what my weights are. If i go to a fitter can they just adjust/change my clubs or do they have you buy brand new clubs that they make? Nice video and i'l have to go to a fitter.
Thanks for your answer and question. in your video you compare two clubs that are way different concerning specifications. Let me explain: 1.) there are two totally different soles of the head as you mentioned. 2.) you have different shafts with different bent profiles with same flex and same weight. But every company has different ways to to call a shaft stiff or f.e. xs as you know 3.) and the shafts have furthermore different frequencies But I surely understood the main message and you pointed it out in your nice video and everybody understood: A lot more components are way more important than the official swing weight of a iron Thanks again for your awesome videos Helmut
Hi Ian, Is it important to match up the swing weight of all the clubs in the bag? For example Rickie Fowler has all his clubs at d3 and DJ has all his at D5
This would only be a good comparison if the heads and shafts we're the same. Too many variables going on here to be able to measure anything. I enjoy your videos but honestly this one isn't too scientific, which is a bummer.
Most people falsely believe that club head velocity matters. It does not. Acceleration matters. Why can a 75lb girl hit her driver 235yds with a smooth swing and a 275lb man cannot? His club moves faster but since it is not accelerating when it hits the ball it loses all its momentum and wants to fly backwards from the impact. Her club chases the ball through
Guys, great video. I've had this nagging question for a while and hope you can answer it. You say to let the components dictate the swingweight but have a ballpark idea of what you respond well to. Let's say I like D3-D4 and the DG X100 profile fits my swing. If I test a combo with X100 swingweighting at D0 and hit it like trash, how do you determine I need a completely different combo to bring the swingweight up or just little extra headweight to bring it up? Basically, how do you determine if a new combo or lead tape is the right answer? Thanks!
JFLovely17 counterweighting creates a lighter swing weight, I believe. I think it works like a counterbalanced shaft has more weight in the grip end, so for the same total weight, it will be a lighter swing weight. I think this is how this video was done, x7 would be rip heavy compared to the modus 130, making same weight but different swing weight. I could be completely wrong, but that's my take on it
So a couple of years ago I fell in love with the Winn DriTec oversized grips. I’m sure the oversized weighs considerably more than standard. And, I started hooking more. Is this potentially a swing weight issue. And, if so, how do I counterbalance? Thanks.
Oversized grips affect swing weight. The heavier the grip, the less swing weight. Let's say you have a D1 7-iron with regular grips. If you put an oversized grip, that probably will turn into a D0 or even C9 (depending on the weight of the grip), so it will feel lighter. If you are hitting hooks it could be a million different things, and it may be not be related to swing weight at all.
Try this.... Take a nail put in the hole of the grip first(make sure it did not go into the shaft) .. If it straighter than before then add permanent weight at the grip...
Why not make up two identical irons with D1 and D3/4? Seems like comparing an iron ideal for him and then toss in one that’s way off seems dictating the outcome. I just got a lighter set built after a fitting and I’m leaving everything out to the right. Like the release in my swing is not timing up due to being lighter swing weight. Idk.
I recently got fitted for a new set of irons where the swingweight is different on all the clubs. (718cb, nippon pro modus 130x) 5i 4,9. 6i 4,3. 7i 4,8. 8i 4,6. 9i 5,1. Is this something you would advice i get fixed so that theyre all at the same swingweight? From a clubfitters point of view, is this an accetable gap between the clubs?
Those variations are statistically insignificant. In the club head 2 grams or 1/14th of an ounce or 1/8th of a tsp of water is 1 full swing weight. If you take your average in that grouping the standard deviation is about .4 or 0.8 grams or 1/20th of a tsp of water. Statistically insignificant.
I was wondering the same. He mentions the width of the club but it was difficult to tell the difference in the video. I wish he had expanded a bit more on this.
Check out this fitting video, lots of talk about turf interaction and how it affected the ball flight for this particular player: ruclips.net/video/BSBra5P7fp4/видео.html
I know I am late to the party with this video so hope you see this question. My driver SW is D3, my 4W and 20/23* hybrids are D1. Consistently hit my 4W and hybrids down the middle with a slight draw, but can't seem to get any consistency with my driver. All shafts are the stock Ping Reg flex shaft for the G25 family (yes, my clubs are a bit old). When I go back to my fitter, are there any specific questions I should ask them about this? Or should i just explain what is happening? Thank you guys.
Would just give them that exact explanation Tim, sounds like trying a few different options with the driver may help. It isn’t guaranteed to be the swingweight causing the issues, but worth trying
Thanks for this. I've been thinking of getting my driver cut down from 46 to 45 inches based on your video on that subject a few days ago, but had been put off by some of the things I'd read elsewhere about the effect on this would have on swing-weight. in your experience, is the effect of such a swing-weight change in driver due to shortening shafts also overrated?
I'm working on bringing my 13degree thriver down from 43 to 42" as an experiment (cheap used club I bought) I dont want the head to feel super light so i'm going to try going from a 65g midsize grip to a golfpride tour25g to get the 6 or so swing weights back from loosing the 1" , this will save pulling the shaft and adding head weight.
Hi Peter, I would seriously look at increasing the head weight on your driver by 15grams to accommodate the shorter shaft. I would also look at starting with a slightly heavier shaft also. The club has to be balanced.
why dont we ever see Ian hit shots?...i know hes the fitter but such a good guy would be fun to see him testing from time to time (though i do love your shots matt...just curious about his game)
😆 It's true, he's only done testing in 2 videos so far - the short answer is him testing distracts him from delivering his knowledge on the topic. We noticed those particular videos were a bit more lacking in insight versus others where he can focus on analyzing the data.
No explanation on why swing weight matters and how a player should select a swing weight based on their game... Like so many other videos, you get caught up in the mechanics of it and don't discuss what different swing weights actually mean to a player...
Could you compare MOI matching versus Swingweight matching? Since a 1000g club and 400g club can have the same sw. ruclips.net/video/MJM59fJJs6E/видео.html
You guys are "customer club builders" ...& here you are attempting to demonstrate difference in performance between 2 different swing weights ...& yet ..the shafts are different, the width of the soles were different (as was pointed out), as well as ...it was two different iron manufacturers! C'mon guys! This was not a demonstration of differences between swing weights. There were too many other differing factors! As "custom club builders", you should have put together 2 (or why not 3 or 4?) clubs that were EXACTLY the same ..EXCEPT for the swing weight? Otherwise ...and because you didn't...this demonstration was a literal waste of time. Boo!
Due to the formula for striking force, F = 1/2(Mass x Velocity^2), a 2x increase in the speed of a mass toward the ball and target will result in 4x more force available to compress the ball. The mass at the end of the club head is actually the least significant one in the golf swing. The mass of the entire body and the mass of the lead arm which flies off the chest before impact dragging club head through ball like a Trebuchet are as significant or more so than any slight differences in mass between club A and club B.
Most discussion of mass and velocity in a swing focuses on the club head but if you stop and consider the goal behind “staying connected” (i.e., pinning lead arm across chest) during the takeaway and downswing you’ll realize how much dragging force that pinned mass of the lead arm generates if the golfer understands how to keep it straight and pinned tight across the chest create fulcrum which increases its mechanical efficiency. The action which causes the arm to fly off chest violently in mid downswing just before club head and face reach the ball and square to target respectively is that sensation the lead hip and shoulders hitting an invisible wall which abruptly stops them until the golfer releases their back foot off the ground which allows hips and shoulders to keep turning. In real time the pause causing the arm to fly off isn’t seen but the physics is the same as what happens to an unbelted passenger in a car crash when the car abruptly stops moving.
So how does that relate to club swing weight? Timing. Ideally you want the arm to fly off the chest just as the club swinging around the hands reaches inside of center on the ball relative to the target with a slightly open face so the arm flying off the chest will pull hands and still closing club head face into the ball just like a Trebuchet whips its projectile in a sling around the primary lever arm when it is released. Differences in swing weight and shaft flex in the club for a given golfer will affect their ability to deliver the club head and face to the ball at precisely the ideal time and face angle as “hitting the wall” triggers the firing of the lead arm and the increase in acceleration which golfers who have the knowledge and practiced skill to do get but recreational golfers don’t - why advanced golfers hit the ball much further with Driver and further and higher with more loft spin for vertical stuck landings than weekend hackers.
Since there is little to no possibility for weekend hackers to develop that necessary skill and timing they get better results - compared to a smaller, lighter mass MB design) swinging more massive club heads with softer shafts which made it easier for them to create the bend in shaft at the top and maintain it all the way to impact despite their less than optimal swing mechanics.
I started playing golf in 1983 the year after the then revolutionary PING EYE 2 clubs hit the market and became very popular because of their greater mass self-aligning to swing arc high MOI mass distribution, the concept Karsten Solheim invented with his 1A and Anser putters and original PING Eye irons twenty years earlier. But it was only after amateurs and pros started using them and winning with them they became popular. The “game improvement” genre of clubs was largely in response to the huge increase of interest in the game in the 1990s created by Tiger Woods. “Forgiveness” became a marketing buzzword which was not really understood by those who fell for the marketing and bought their first set of clubs at Costco in the 1990s because many had never even tried to swing or play with more traditional blade iron design. My first set in 1983 were B Browning Premiere irons and stainless 5w, 3w, Driver with whippy metal shafts so I was aware of the difference when trying a set of ‘game improvement” clubs with big heads and carbon shafts in the 1990s. Compared to my Brownings they felt like swinging bricks on the end of a stick but I was just a weekend hacker and unable to generate the swing speed needed for blades and stay in balance at the same time, which is the formula for hitting long shots and then spending a lot of time in the rough, woods or next fairway looking for them. After retiring in 2008 I took a part time job as a starter so I could play for free, which I started to do daily. I got rid of the “game improvement” irons and instead bought and regripped set of circa 1978 Wilson Reflex irons which had very small but very light mass head and it was with those clubs I learned how to use that F = 1/2 (Mass x Velocity^2) formula and the Trebuchet technique to full advantage. Now at age 69 I’m using a set if PING S57 irons and 9° driver with stiff shafts 😄
I really appreciate this comment, more insightful than the video.
Ur initial formula is incorrect
@@ironsideeve2955 What do you think is correct formula for striking force?
@@TeddyCavachon have a search for impulse and collisions lumenlearning
YT keeps deleting the direct link
@@TeddyCavachon force = mass x acceleration. Kinetic energy = =1/2 mass x vel^2
I think it would be amazing to re-shoot this video w/Matt. Take matt's gamers and then build the a higher and lower swing weight version to really quantify the effects on delivery and maybe ball flight.
Swing weight is something most people don't think about until you become aware of it. I went from D4 to E0 and actually gained club head speed and distance with my irons. The heavy weight really keeps my swing on plane, especially on take away, as well and reduced my miss left.
Seems like it was very important and something to always be aware of. I’d love to see a video of swing weight changes from regular to one or two extra wraps, or midsize grips based on grams.
I know if I swing anything less than a D4 i will start shanking it. I cant stay away from the heel. My normal SW for irons are D6.5. My driver Is a D7 and my wedges are E1. I am not a crazy big person, 6'1", 210 lbs, fit. I like to feel the club head. I think the main thing it does for me is I have very fast hips, so with a heavier sw it slows my tempo down. But i do not sacrifice distance.
Worth mentioning for those that are interested. One way to build clubs and increase swing weight without adding too much static weight overall is to soft step shafts. This can shift balance point enough to allow for some extremely light and troublesome build. A perfect example is attempting to swing weight steel fibers shafts in lighter blades heads when using mid size grips.
Great video, as usual guys. Please keep this amazing content coming. Idea/question for future video...what are your thoughts on MOI matching vs. Swing weighting? I'm curious to know if there's any possible advantage to building out a set that's MOI matched vs swing weight matched? I think that would make a great video, and if there are any myths to MOI matching being any better/more consistent that using a swing weight scale. Thanks!
Swing weight is huge in relation to club head speed. Swing a D4, then swing a C4 club...once you find it, it's amazing!
I come from tennis, and swing weight affects the huge part of the game. Most pros use a heavy racket that feels heavy in the handle for easier maneuver, in the other hand for game improvement one the racket will be lighter but the weight may move to the face of the racket for easy power.
I'd really like for you guys to revisit this subject with Matt, and less variables. I've seen a couple tables of data online, but Matt's a machine, I'd like to see how much his launch angle, peak height, spin, ball speed, strike pattern and dispersion are affected through different swing weights.
Love you guys' work, watch a video from yall's channel nearly everyday.
Ditto - see my latest comment - I think there is a market for fairway finder drivers that hit a little less - but not into the forest!!
Please make a video regarding shaft weight!!! Would be awesome to hear what you guys Think about this!!!
its an important part if youf fitting and tuning your own clubs,i always tweak to my preferred swingweight with lead tape to get it where its perfect for me,nice vid
I've have a set of Miura Tournament blades at d3 and a set of King forged MB's at d6... I always switch them out every couple months or so and after 2 rounds I'm dialed in.. I think your body will naturally adapt to whatever club u play and idk if it matters as much as people think.
It matters more than you realize and your comment just verified it. Your body will adjust to the club in your hands(even if it doesn't fit your body). The reason you want to get fitted is because the club is supposed to adjust to your body. We all have very specific patterns and motions in
Our turn
Arm swing
Wrist cock
Leg action
If a club is off by 2 grams in the wring place our body will adjust by stalling, flipping, over turning etc. Many swing flaws simply an effect of portly fit clubs.
@@jacobr4558 the average golfer shoots 100. They can barely tell difference between shaft flex. Hardly any1 is that dialed in that 2 grams makes a significant difference to their golf.game. I wouldn't even consider myself that dialed in and i am a 5hcp. The level of fitting ur talking about is like NCAA/mini tour/pro, where it would make a difference, and i can verify that
It's not about the player being dialed in it's about the fitter. The golf swing basically comes down to how much you want to use your wrist. And how your body coordinates the Motions of the wrists on cocking and uncocking. Dechambeau in his college swing Barely Used any wrist so he needed lighter swing weight heavier grips etc. Whereas long drive guys are more in the E range because they're really snapping their wrist to get speed. So it's not about the golfer understanding what all his mechanics are doing but it's about the fitter understanding what his mechanics are doing because they're very different!
The golf teaching and fitting industry is such a joke right now! People are so clueless as to how to swing and how Equipment Works at all. Yet they are charged crazy prices for poor instruction and poor fitting. It's very sad
Weird watching one from back in the day without matt! Got fitted today on a driver and was e5
I have KBS $-taper 120 S shafts. I cut them 0.5" shorter and put on a Lamking Corssline oversize + 74g (used standard grips, weighted 50g) and added 4g of lead tape on the shaft beneath grip. Now the 5, 6, 7, 8 irons like C2-C2 (D2 is standard) and 9 iron is C3 (D3 is standard) and Pw is C4 (D4 is standard). Total weight added with 22 grams. I have never hit my irons so good like I'm doing now. My Attack angel is 3-4.9 deg down with 7 iron. My PW is 4-5.5 down at impact. Last session with the 7 iron I had a avg club path was 0.4 in to out and the club was open with 1. I hit nice small pull fades without doing anything. It just happened. I have always liked heavier irons for some reason until I started to experiment with swing weight by adding heavier grips and using lead tape.
SW matters as long as you talk head weight.
I removed 1 of the 2 weights on my Mizuno JPX 850 (8g off), and it became much more easier to hit. Likewise with my 4 and 7 woods (15g off by my clubfitter !) and currently I rediscover the pleasure of playing those clubs while I was wondering for new ones.
I went from a ~D3 swing weight to ~C8 just by going from standard grips to the GP MCC+4 midsize grips.... the result? I went from hitting my nice, PREDICTABLE, baby draws down the middle to flat pull hooking EVERYTHING 10-15 yards left (sometimes worse)! maybe a couple swing weights diff doesn't matter much as long as you are ABOVE D1 or so, but when you drop from the "standard" D3 down into the C's, it makes a diff and you can't tell me otherwise - I know it first hand! =) A better test for Cam would've been to give him his D3 then give him a club at C8-9, I'd pay money to see that kind of test!
Troy Paradiso exactly. And when you add length or cut off that really changes swing weight as well. I cut 3/4 inch off my new 3W HL M2 TaylorMade and bought a lighter grip to increase the swing weight
It’s completely dependent on the player. There’s no hard and fast rule that says lower swing weight = x results. I’ve tested from c8 to d8 back and forth and hit them both the exact same. If I have a heavier shaft I prefer a lighter swing weight. If I have a light shaft I prefer a slightly heavier swing weight. That’s strictly my feel preference. As far as shot results I had no noticeable difference. But I’ve also seen players strike location change drastically going too light or too heavy for them.
Bryson used to play 125 gram grips and B range swing weight. Heavy grips just fool the swing weight machine.
Would love to see an updated much more in depth version of this please.
The swing weight is very important. I 5’9”. But with very long legs, so my hip is higher than normal, if a I bend with the standard clubs, my golf posture gets the weight to the front and there is no way I can shift my weight in a full swing. So even with my normal height I need clubs at least 1 inch longer than normal. I just learn that one inch if your lenghten your club it will change 6 swing weight, making it heavier.
I would argue MOI, component and total weight are important, swing weight not so much.
Very interesting that there seems to be a lack of explanation of the physics or the biomechanics of different swing weights with the same club how that effects the timing of the swing especially the transition off the top. Through practice, I have found that a heavier swing weight slightly delays the transition more so than a lighter swingweight, and therefore affecting the timing and impact. I have a tendency to release the club head too early with a light swing weight and more often I'll hit fat shots.
Im not a believer that you can use a heavier grip to offset a heavy swingweight. I had a set of Mizuno MP irons built @ +1/2" and they used B-weight heads (minus ~6g) and the finished set weighed D2. I later put on a Lamkin Crossline Midsize (which are pretty heavy for being simple midsize grips) which dropped my swingweight thru the floor - ended up C9. The irons still played like D2, though. They still felt D2, everything was still great on the course. I didn't suddenly think "Wow, these heads are too light now, I can't play them."
...Similarly I had Titleist build a set of CB's but notoriously they don't offer lighter heads to the public, so my build at +1/2" was D5 which is too heavy for me with my preferred DG shafts. I threw on some heavy grips and the scale swingweight fell to D2. BUT they still played like D5 and felt heavy at the head.. In my experience you can't counter balance away a heavy iron head, especially when your gross club weight is significant like in the case of DG X100 built irons. If you hate a heavy irons head, you can't make it go away by tinkering with the butt end IMHO.
Love the channel - keep it up.
Precisely. There is swingweight...and there is counter-balancing. And the two ideas are both valid, but completely different when it comes to club building preferences. I'm also finding that I don't have a particular swingweight I can tattoo on my arm and "call my own". I like D2 with a certain shaft. I might like D3 with a heavier shaft ...and I may like D1 with a lighter shaft. And it might be vice versa...still trying to ascertain. It's a moving target and varies based on shaft characteristics.
Station 2Station ... agree, I've trailed and error with grips and back weighting clubs.
the swing weight drop, might get better smash factor, but some how, some way, the weight of heavier comes back into play,
that pw is still 298grams even if I've manipulated the butt
Now, I'm grinding metal to change the weight, had a run with the one length irons and felt what a 265gram pw felt like and was wow'd.
Absolutely. Putting a heavy grip on a club just "tricks" the weight scale more than anything. My clubs are very heavy -- I use 6.5 shafts and jumbo grips -- but because of the shaft balance point and the heavy grips, they are about C7-C9 range. Wedge is D1. But anyone who picked up these clubs would feel like they swing heavy (which I like) because of the high total weight.
Why wouldn’t you do the same club, shaft grip just different SW
Yep, I definitely think this should be done again and vary the length with the weight - so same swing weights different lengths. I'd be fascinated to see Matt driving balls with a shaft that's getting shorter - up to say 2" - but the swing weight stays the same and the shaft is adjusted so it feels the same (- otherwise cutting a shaft down and adding weight will make it more stressed and whippy).
I think we'd end up with a driver head functioning just like a 3 Wood length and feel. But hey, would we have created Mat's "Ultimate Fairway Finder" driver for Mat? 10-15 yards shorter, but centred in the fairway?
Hi. Great channel guys. It has really helped give me background to make my fitting session more fruitful. I've looked at several of the videos and have a question on fitting clubs to help re-enforce a swing change. I have recently changed my transition to a shallower downswing and am trying to delay my release. If I wanted to fit clubs that would help re-enforce these feels, would I be right in looking for something with a higher swing weight - to help have my transition from steep to shallow, and a shaft with a stiff tip, to encourage me to hold the release more than I have in the past. I've seen you viewpoint that the shaft helps with timing and wonder if this is the kind of thing you mean?
@Club Champion - Could you make a video showing the extremes of swing weight, i.e.: have 2 identical irons, with one set to the lightest swing weight possible and the other set to the heaviest swing weight possible, and describe what both feel like to hit a golfball. I've read that the lightest swing weight is A0 and the heaviest is F9.
So if I have this correct, this is basically a counterbalance vs tip heavy comparison. As the swing weight would just measure the balance points. Head and grip same weight so balance point of shafts would be the difference. And so possibly someone who has a fade tendency could benifit from a lighter swing weight compared to a hooker could use heavier swing weight to calm that down
Love your channel. The definitive answers clear & concise. My query is? I'm 6"4 and need an inch and half on my irons. If I get a X 6.0 shaft will it make it softer & regular or would it still make it feel heavy.
Will feel heavy for sure, and the lack of trimming may affect the flex making it play softer.
@@clubchampionmedia Hi Ian great video, I was recently fit for the new titlest mb 620 an inch longer than standard in px 6.5 The swing weight from getting them checked is d9 can you recommend any way to get around this or another manufacturer that might do lighter heads as i am not sure a grip change will bring it down enough i find the weight of the clubs to heavy. I wouldn't want to go past d5
Great work guys. Couple of quick questions about shafts. First: if you see someone with positive AOA with driver (e.g. 5 deg), how would this impact your initial shaft choice (i.e. bend profile) compared to someone with neutral/slightly negative AOA?
Secondly, I love my Matrix Program irons shafts (130, 7.0 SS x 1) but am getting toe-down impact (3-5degree) despite increasing lie angle (more upright) with in - to - out club path - would this be shaft droop? If so, you see this at higher swing speeds with graphite shafts? Cheers!!
Hey Tim, long time no see!!!! LOL.
First point - I'm really generalizing here because there are so many variables that go into shaft choice but normally with a +5 AoA I'd lean towards a more tip stiff bend profile. Some that would suit you would be - Accra TZX 465 M5, Veylix Rome 688, HZ Black 6.5 62g.
Second point - Yes it's very likely Matrix Program would provide more shaft droop than DG X7. Matrix Program was specifically designed for the LPGA Tour with a view of increasing launch and spin. The 7.0 Program is very butt stiff but fairly soft in the tip.
Hey Guys! Great video, when you build out sets do you swing match or use a progressive swing weight?
I know this is an old post... But to be fare the sole also played a part 🤔.. Maybe same /same with Matt?.. I'm convinced the increase in swing weight is increasing my spin and reducing my distance 🤔.. Surely it must affect the MOI
Perfect I can now safely switch from standard to midsize grips without worrying about swing weight
Have you (would you) test Tour Lock products?
Great video. I recently got fitted for irons. Selected the ping i500 irons with project x lz 5.5 flex. It was close between this shaft and the new elevate shaft. Chose the project x because there was no upcharge. Swing weight as tested was d6. I had the fitter purchase the irons stock with my lie and length changes but the swing weight would be whatever it is from the factory. Should I make sure they retro fit the shafts to the same d6 swing weight? FYI I am coming from a d2 swing weight in steelhead xr irons with a stiff xp95 shaft. Loved the feel of the heavier project x and I 500.
If the D6 swingweight was giving you good results and you liked the feel, then yes would recommend you maintain that spec
My irons have always been D2. I tested out a C9 in the same club and every shot started out right and faded further right. I was leaving the club face open at impact and it's not easy to correct.
So i just started and i have a set of clubs i just bought to get going. I have no clue what my weights are. If i go to a fitter can they just adjust/change my clubs or do they have you buy brand new clubs that they make? Nice video and i'l have to go to a fitter.
thanks for the video. I got the take home message. But to be honest: you mixed a few things up
Happy to clear up any points you felt were mixed up. Feel free to send them over Dr Helmut. :)
Thanks for your answer and question. in your video you compare two clubs that are way different concerning specifications. Let me explain:
1.) there are two totally different soles of the head as you mentioned.
2.) you have different shafts with different bent profiles with same flex and same weight. But every company has different ways to to call a shaft stiff or f.e. xs as you know
3.) and the shafts have furthermore different frequencies
But I surely understood the main message and you pointed it out in your nice video and everybody understood:
A lot more components are way more important than the official swing weight of a iron
Thanks again for your awesome videos
Helmut
Hi Ian,
Is it important to match up the swing weight of all the clubs in the bag? For example Rickie Fowler has all his clubs at d3 and DJ has all his at D5
This would only be a good comparison if the heads and shafts we're the same.
Too many variables going on here to be able to measure anything.
I enjoy your videos but honestly this one isn't too scientific, which is a bummer.
Wasn't our best Aleksi, agreed. We did this one really early on in the channel.
I've been watching your videos and like the fitting experience where in scotland would I get this in-depth fitting through my bag
Hi Ian,
Scott Gourlay in Edinburgh is the closest set up to what we have here in Toronto - www.sggt.co.uk
Highly recommend SGGT 👍🏼
Most people falsely believe that club head velocity matters. It does not. Acceleration matters. Why can a 75lb girl hit her driver 235yds with a smooth swing and a 275lb man cannot? His club moves faster but since it is not accelerating when it hits the ball it loses all its momentum and wants to fly backwards from the impact. Her club chases the ball through
Guys, great video. I've had this nagging question for a while and hope you can answer it. You say to let the components dictate the swingweight but have a ballpark idea of what you respond well to. Let's say I like D3-D4 and the DG X100 profile fits my swing. If I test a combo with X100 swingweighting at D0 and hit it like trash, how do you determine I need a completely different combo to bring the swingweight up or just little extra headweight to bring it up? Basically, how do you determine if a new combo or lead tape is the right answer? Thanks!
Is it possible for swing weight to cause some casting.
How about something on counter weighting
JFLovely17 counterweighting creates a lighter swing weight, I believe. I think it works like a counterbalanced shaft has more weight in the grip end, so for the same total weight, it will be a lighter swing weight. I think this is how this video was done, x7 would be rip heavy compared to the modus 130, making same weight but different swing weight. I could be completely wrong, but that's my take on it
Cam said the second one felt lighter. Yet, that was the D6?
So a couple of years ago I fell in love with the Winn DriTec oversized grips. I’m sure the oversized weighs considerably more than standard. And, I started hooking more. Is this potentially a swing weight issue. And, if so, how do I counterbalance? Thanks.
Oversized grips affect swing weight. The heavier the grip, the less swing weight. Let's say you have a D1 7-iron with regular grips. If you put an oversized grip, that probably will turn into a D0 or even C9 (depending on the weight of the grip), so it will feel lighter. If you are hitting hooks it could be a million different things, and it may be not be related to swing weight at all.
Try this.... Take a nail put in the hole of the grip first(make sure it did not go into the shaft) .. If it straighter than before then add permanent weight at the grip...
@@Mangkuklu you nailed it bro .
Why not make up two identical irons with D1 and D3/4? Seems like comparing an iron ideal for him and then toss in one that’s way off seems dictating the outcome. I just got a lighter set built after a fitting and I’m leaving everything out to the right. Like the release in my swing is not timing up due to being lighter swing weight. Idk.
Dammit- they beat me to it. I was going to take the tape off my club then put it back on and do results.
I recently got fitted for a new set of irons where the swingweight is different on all the clubs. (718cb, nippon pro modus 130x)
5i 4,9. 6i 4,3. 7i 4,8. 8i 4,6. 9i 5,1.
Is this something you would advice i get fixed so that theyre all at the same swingweight?
From a clubfitters point of view, is this an accetable gap between the clubs?
Elpaelpa, those look OK. I don't suspect that variation will cause you too many issues.
Those variations are statistically insignificant. In the club head 2 grams or 1/14th of an ounce or 1/8th of a tsp of water is 1 full swing weight. If you take your average in that grouping the standard deviation is about .4 or 0.8 grams or 1/20th of a tsp of water. Statistically insignificant.
what was it about the particular sole/ turf interaction that you mentioned that can cause pull hooks?
I was wondering the same. He mentions the width of the club but it was difficult to tell the difference in the video. I wish he had expanded a bit more on this.
Check out this fitting video, lots of talk about turf interaction and how it affected the ball flight for this particular player: ruclips.net/video/BSBra5P7fp4/видео.html
I know I am late to the party with this video so hope you see this question. My driver SW is D3, my 4W and 20/23* hybrids are D1. Consistently hit my 4W and hybrids down the middle with a slight draw, but can't seem to get any consistency with my driver. All shafts are the stock Ping Reg flex shaft for the G25 family (yes, my clubs are a bit old). When I go back to my fitter, are there any specific questions I should ask them about this? Or should i just explain what is happening? Thank you guys.
Would just give them that exact explanation Tim, sounds like trying a few different options with the driver may help. It isn’t guaranteed to be the swingweight causing the issues, but worth trying
@@clubchampionmedia Thank you for the reply.
Where do you come up with c9
Thanks for this. I've been thinking of getting my driver cut down from 46 to 45 inches based on your video on that subject a few days ago, but had been put off by some of the things I'd read elsewhere about the effect on this would have on swing-weight. in your experience, is the effect of such a swing-weight change in driver due to shortening shafts also overrated?
I'm working on bringing my 13degree thriver down from 43 to 42" as an experiment (cheap used club I bought) I dont want the head to feel super light so i'm going to try going from a 65g midsize grip to a golfpride tour25g to get the 6 or so swing weights back from loosing the 1" , this will save pulling the shaft and adding head weight.
Unfortunately, the TM lite grip that come as as standard on my driver is already extremely light, so I can't gain the swingweight back like you.
Hi Peter, I would seriously look at increasing the head weight on your driver by 15grams to accommodate the shorter shaft. I would also look at starting with a slightly heavier shaft also. The club has to be balanced.
Thanks for your reply.
How do you arrive at a C 9
It's important when it's wrong. When it's too heavy you feel like you're swinging a flail weapon. Too light and not enough oopmph behind the ball.
why dont we ever see Ian hit shots?...i know hes the fitter but such a good guy would be fun to see him testing from time to time (though i do love your shots matt...just curious about his game)
😆 It's true, he's only done testing in 2 videos so far - the short answer is him testing distracts him from delivering his knowledge on the topic. We noticed those particular videos were a bit more lacking in insight versus others where he can focus on analyzing the data.
This Matt looks different.
No explanation on why swing weight matters and how a player should select a swing weight based on their game... Like so many other videos, you get caught up in the mechanics of it and don't discuss what different swing weights actually mean to a player...
Moe Norman played E4
Dechambeau played in the high B range due to the heavy Jumbomax he used to play.
Is there a source to verify E4?
In this video swing wight makes a big difference and the presenter says not to worry about it...
Amazing how he thought it was lighter when it was 3 points higher. Lol
Could you compare MOI matching versus Swingweight matching? Since a 1000g club and 400g club can have the same sw. ruclips.net/video/MJM59fJJs6E/видео.html
You guys are "customer club builders" ...& here you are attempting to demonstrate difference in performance between 2 different swing weights ...& yet ..the shafts are different, the width of the soles were different (as was pointed out), as well as ...it was two different iron manufacturers! C'mon guys! This was not a demonstration of differences between swing weights. There were too many other differing factors! As "custom club builders", you should have put together 2 (or why not 3 or 4?) clubs that were EXACTLY the same ..EXCEPT for the swing weight? Otherwise ...and because you didn't...this demonstration was a literal waste of time. Boo!
I learned nothing here...