@@bobhenry6159 - thanks, I didn't know that little tidbit. But I remain amazed that they couldn't just update it somehow and keep it going. It was such a practical workhorse, and a smooth performer. I had supercharged 3.8L in a Pontiac Bonneville SSei, it was terrific.
@@ChevySS1968 Nice. I had the NA 3.8 2000 Bonneville. Loved it. The engine had reached it's limits. There's only so much you can do with 2 valves and what was a fairly heavy 6 cylinder engine block. Other than the coolant leaks in the intake/plenem gaskets, they were bullet proof. Mine had 240K and running strong when I sold it. Parts were so cheap on that car.
I'm driving a 98 Buick Regal naturally aspirated 3800 series 2. It quit registering miles on me at 250,000 and that was 3 years ago and it's a daily driver. The paint on the top is faded really bad because it's actually really pretty midnight blue metallic paint but they were really bad for clear coat problems I imagine. But anyway I recently took it to the muffler shop because it had a little muffler leak and it had the original catalytic converter so I said what the heck just cut it off and let's straight pipe but put a longer muffler so it's not really loud. Turns out it's not really loud at all but it has a really nice grunt if you're behind it but you can't hear it in the car without the windows down . And even then it growls perfectly at 1800 to 2,000 rpms and quiets right down after that. But back to performance I did not get better than 20 miles to the gallon in that car for the last 6 years no matter how easy I drove that car, but after I had the catalytic converter removed and saw that it was very clogged up you would not believe the amount of torque difference in that car now I can pull out and just give it the gas up to three thousand RPMs and let it shift to the next gear push my foot back in it just a little bit to 3000 RPMs and I'm going 60 miles an hour and just barely touching the gas pedal. Also the power it has climbing hills is day and night since I deleted the catalytic converter but the best part of this rant if you're still reading is I went from getting the 20 miles per gallon up to 26.4 miles a gallon now and I just love that car. They have so much room all leather so comfortable and it feels like you're driving a lazy boy recliner down the road. I guess that's all I've got for now. Remember just check the basics under the hood every time you stop to get gas and I don't care what kind of car you're driving you will get more life out of it. To close this up it uses one quart of oil between oil changes and I change it at 5,000 MI and I always use Castrol GTX oil. Oh, mileage? I know it's near or probably a little bit over 300,000 now. But I have maintenance the car very well over the years. but parts are so cheap you can keep them maintenance for nearly nothing. Have a great day 3.8 lovers!
A twin turbo Buick Grand national was the terror of the track back in my days. A street car it was. The dude ran in the 9-10 sec for 1/4 mile. No one had anything on him.
@@1_Bad_Z No i was reffering a turbo charged grand national, gtx, the black one. BUt modified as a twin turbo. I dont remember all the spec, but the guy basically just switched turbis and intercooler. It was the original internals. Noy even using drag tires. Just the tires he came at the racing track with. Lol Quite a beast of a car.
@@TroIIingThemSoftly I get what you're saying but his grandfather having one of these in the 80s doesn't necessarily make his grandfather young lol. It's not like he said "my grandfather had blah blah blah in the 80s when he was 17". His grandfather may have been 35 in the 80s and still could have owned that jeep lol
As the original owner of my 31,000 mile 1987 Grand National, some performance bolt ones, not afraid to run against Mustangs and the Dodges, just love showing my tail lights from a 35 year old Buick! 😆
A stock G-Body should not be able to pin you to the seat like one of these cars can.... but the fact these cars can, makes me love them that much more!
Me and a coworker took another coworker's t type for a little joy ride. I said "damn this car is pretty quick for today!" Imagine how that felt to people in the 80s!
Yeah they were OK for their day, way faster than my 84 Trans Am but in reality my 68 Plymouth Roadrunner and plenty of other pre gas crisis muscle cars like the OG Buick GSX Stage 1 will smoke a GNX like it is standing still. A pure stock naturally aspirated 68-70 Roadrunner will do the quarter anywhere between 13.5 (383) and low 12's/high 11s (Hemi/4speed) depending on what engine/trans/rear axle ratio it came with. Mine runs about 13.20 on bald street tires and it just has a 360 I pulled out of a junkyard van with a 3 speed automatic. I can't wait to break into the 12s with an oil burning naturally aspirated low compression junkyard small block, especially while everyone else around me is just boosting or spraying to get there.
@@Impactjunky Seriously. Are you high. The 68 Roadrunner was a badass my uncle had his from 69 up until late 03 when it was sold. First off the Buick GSX wasn't faster than both of it's cousins GTO or Chevelle which during that time was by far way faster than anything buick had to offer. Secondly the 360 magnum which was just a bored and stroked 318 will never even come close to offering the same performance a 383 is famous for in any imaginable way stock so stop it and lastly yes these were 12sec terrors in stock form but it wasn't uncommon to encounter 9 or 10sec. bolt-on T-types, GNX's, or Grand National's tearing up tracks at your city nation wide so give credit where credit is due.
@@oldiebutgoo5mccoy493 You need some serious schoolin because I've got the time slips to prove what I said and on top of that the Buick GSX is widely known to be one of the only stock muscle cars that could compete with a Hemi car. It held the world record for highest torque rating in a stock production car for 30+ years until the series 2 V10 viper came out in 2003. You can see them both run 12s in pure stock drags where major modifications are not allowed. And YES my junkyard 360 small block is just a couple tenths behind those legendary big dogs, that's why my car was chosen out of five thousand other badass cars by Car Craft Magazine as one of the top ten budget builds of the 2018 Hot Rod Power Tour.
@@jeffkendel1570 Am I supposed to automatically know or care what a "V" is? Because that still won't make the massively over rated GNX faster than carbureted V8 cars that came out 20 years earlier.
When the original article in Car & Driver came out in 1986 called "Speed is a gunslinger in Black" and a stock intercooled Buick GN went 0-60 in 4.9 seconds I knew this car was going to be an instant legend.
I'm not saying you're wrong or it didn;t happen, but I took a GN owner for a ride in my '70 GS455 clone. Nothing crazy, 12 bolt rear at just 3.31:1, pistons at 10.25:1, aluminum stage 1 heads from T/A, not even bowl work dead stock, a T/A split duration cam just under .500 lift using roller rockers, 800cfm carb dual plane, 7/8" primary tube headers 2.5" exhaust no H or X pipe. And the GN owner's eyes were as big as dinner plates when the avalanche of torque shoved him back.
@@_..-.._..-.._ Except your drawers got soiled over my saying it. Tell me more about how you don't care. Are are you this "nobody" you mentioned, or just another internet hero?
The G bodies are my favorite cars from 83-88. The Monte SS, grand National and 442’s are all good platforms. You just know the bigwigs were asking what the hell are those Buick guys doing over there, made the Corvette look like a waste of money back then
Great thing about G bodies, you can still drop in the powertrain from the 60's and 70's muscle cars without too much extra work and the parts are cheap and plentiful, and the chassis is more 'tunable' than the old A and B body cars... my metric El Camino with a v8 and 4 speed is way more fun to drive than the old barge body 2 door Impala I grew up with :)
@@mcwrench45 the G-bodies are essentially a continuation of the old A-body cars. Everything underneath my 85 Cutlass is the exact same as my pops' 66 Chevelle, albeit with metric nuts and bolts
@@AndrewDorsey27 I reckon it looks that way until you start swapping parts.... the 7.5 inch diff in my El Camino didn't come out until about 1977, axles and other parts are later design... the 10.5 inch clutch and smaller bell housing are G body designs, the larger bell housing and 11 or 12 inch clutch from the 60's won't fit, as I've tried it... too big unless you wanna cut tunnel out... seems older rods from the 60's had mostly 15 inch wheels and 4 wheel drum brakes, while the G bodies got 14 inch wheels and front disc... lots of other changes in the metric cars, but you don't really notice them until you try swapping out parts.... then the details become more apparent....
That 3.8L v6 was no joke. Had one in my Grand Prix GTP. Absolutely love it and the car, tho red, was a sleeper. I had recently started to look for Grand Nationals and has a line a a few that were at the $12k range with under 100k on the clock as of 2020. Some low mile examples were already at the $40k+ mark. Hard to find even a project now at all under $20k.
Keep lookin man, we’re about to see a MASSIVE crash in the car market from banks loaning people money for cars and payments they couldn’t afford after Covid. Which in turn is making people default on their loans and the bank repossessing their cars and having to auction them or sell them at a HUGE loss. The loss is already in the trillions and it started three-ish months ago I believe.
The GN is still my favorite muscle car of all time. Mainly because of the sheer absurdity that this thing got up to. That’s why I love old American muscle, the sheer absurdity behind them all. More power? Shove a motor that should be home in a truck under the hood. But a small turbo V6 knocking everything else down a peg? That’s sheer absurdity for a long shot!!
I have a 1987 high 9 second grand National and honestly it’s the funnest car ever. The grand National does not care if another car is faster it will simply beat it anyways with it’s grit
You forgot to mention. Buick & Pontiac wanted to put a Turbo-v6 in a pickup truck. GM didn't want either brands selling pickup trucks under and Chevy said no, but GMC said yes. Thus, the GMC Syclone & Typhoon were born. Both at 280hp & 350 lb-ft with the Syclone holding the record of fastest production car on the planet at the time, beating out the Ferrari 348ts in a quarter-mile and kicking off the 90s muscle-truck era. Chevy would follow-up the Syclone with the Silverado 454 SS, Ford would come out with the F150 SVT Lightning, and Dodge with the RAM SRT-10 to close the muscle-truck era.
Minor correction.......the original turbo system was a draw through style using a Quadrajet carb. The same style system would be used on the 80-81 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am
@@hoost3056 my dad had a champagne colored screamin chicken with the golden full bird hood and t tops. He would take me for a rides in it (at the time I was 4-5 yrs old) . I remember it having this thing on the hood that would turn colors as it went faster. I now understand it for what it was but at the time I didn't. He would get up to 130+ mph like it was nothing. He would tell me, don't tell your mother we were going that fast. I never did. I loved the way it would pin me back.lol It had gold rims too. It was a very nice looking car.
I remember one of those showed up at a local drag strip one weekend and they were laughed at because they brought a V-6 powered car to the track! The laughter didn’t last long though! A lot of people ended up with hurt feelings after he taught quite a few lessons to quite a few people!
@Marcus Neither, the internals are the same as a Grand National, they had a ceramic impeller turbo, ram more boost, had an upgraded intercooler and exhaust among other things to squeeze more power out of them.
My o!d man had a 1987 Regal T-Type...I was in high school 1992-96... I used to fill it with friends and still never lost a race lol...Being a decent looking guy in that GORGEOUS car, with a spacious back seat, let's just say I was popular with the ladies!! Man, those were the days...Thanks for the video, and the memories it brought back!!
There's no such thing as an "87 T-Type. Buick dropped that name from the Regal lineup after 1986 & thus the reason your old man's Regal didn't have "T-Type" badges on the fenders, nor did it have the 84/86 "W11" T-Type option code on it's SPID label.
I pulled up next to one of these at a red light in my 88 IROC Camaro with the 5.7 TPI. Light turned green and I watched his taillights all the way up the street, and that was a slightly built Camaro, with a shift kit and a 3.73 posi rear. These cars are quick, maybe not by todays standards, stock they stand no chance against a Hellcat or ZL1, but still in there time they were the quickest thing you could buy from the dealer.
I love driving my Grand national. That car is an absolute head turner every time you drive it and everyone seems to want to race you. Don't forget with the GNX they also had the longitudinal lateral bar for the differential. It would keep the differential from rotating by pressing it harder to the ground and lifting the rear so that it can put more power down to the pavement. If you ever get a chance to ride in one it will put a smile guaranteed on anyone's face.
The biggest difference between the gnx and the next package below it was the extra support rod that ran from the differential to the subframe and allowed almost all the torque to be applied to the tires and also helped reduce the problem known as the "G-body shuffle".
30yr going and still and always takes my breath away when boost kicks in! Special thanks to Smokey Yunick on his input to get this engine to the masses. After all this time it's good to see that 3.8 in so many platforms. GTR anyone. Respect to all the gearheads out there.
I love your uploads. Thank you for this one. "back in the day" I was driving a friend's car that was quick. A GNX played with us on a highway and @ 70mph, decided to stop playing with us and left tire smoke and our eyes wide. Good times; Thanks again. Lee
I owned a 87 gn for many years. I’m certain it made 15 lbs of boost in 1st and second gear if you had good enough gas. Not the 12psi mentioned in video. By simply swapping the ECM‘s PROM with one from Kenny Bell will then increase your boost to 17 psi in first and second gear. Good for 2-3 tenths in 1320ft. 13.73 & 100.9 mph best ever with factory tires and exhaust and just the chip and good gas. Seen other Gns go deeper into the 13s claiming only a chip.
Thank you 337speed for doing the topic that I requested for I absolutely fell in love with these cars when one of my buddies dad used to own his 87' GN & I had the privilege to drive it quite a few times it was a blast when that boost kicks in as we took it for a drive in it every Sunday night cruise & every time we were stopped @ a light these 5L fox bodies would pull up & try to race but could not stand a chance against this thing it was a beast for its time Long live the turbo buicks 💪🏽😎 but it's funny after 30+ yrs later how most manufacturers are going back to this kind of technology lol
I had the pleasure of driving one of these cars brand new off the showroom floor in 1987 and had a field day. Your synopsis and analysis was very accurate about these vehicles including the aftermarket like Duttweiler.
Excellent video sir. Finally some very accurate information. As an 89 TTA owner, I just wanted to comment that the HP/TQ rating is "Advertised." Chevrolet was still pissing and moaning about the Buick's and now that the 3.8 was in a lighter unrestricted Trans Am, they were once again going to have to face the music with the Corvettes. PAS, the company that performed the engine swaps for the TTA's had to dyno the vehicles for reliability and warranty purposes. Due to the change to the better flowing heads, bigger intercooler and specific PAS E-PROM tune, they were routinely seeing 300+ HP at the crank. Chevrolet was making a big stink about this vehicles production so Pontiac told PAS they had to tune down closer to the Corvettes HP numbers, which was 245 HP at that time. PAS pulled a fast one and disconnected the intercoolers during the certification runs and measured the output at the wheels. So that 250 is actually rear wheel HP with no intercooler. If you do the math you can see this. My car is bone stock and when it was 20 years old with 40k miles on it, I was running 13.1 1/4 mile times at 109 mph. And an aside, the light weight Turbo Regal you mentioned was actually another limited edition and separate from the Regal T's and GN's. It was designated option WE4 and was a special lightweight package and only 1547 were built.
Actually the 153 mph top speed on a turbo Trans Am wasn't the highest top speed. they ran it back the other way and did 161 mph up against a new Corvette back in 89 or 90 in Corvette magazine . which I believe I still have somewhere
The GN and GNX ratings were dropped not because of GMs embarrassment, but because of fuel taxes and more insanely..... insurance regulations. Stupid huh? Yeah, a few folks over at Chevy were a bit peeved some lil V6 strapped to a living room blew the doors off their flagship, EASILY! But that was 3 years before the T/A. The numbers werent dropped because of red faces, it was political BS invading the car manufacturing process. All in all 5 Vette killers were made by GM - GN, GNX, TT/A, Cyclone, Typhoon. GM coulda been taxed or sued by Uncle Sam for the numbers, but not for embarrasment. Thats the reason the numbers were changed. If they were that embarrassed, after 87, the TT/A, Cyclone and Typhoon would never had been produced. As for the WE4 package designation, dont give that too much creedance. Ive seen that on alot of Regals and of differing types. Only thing to note here was the WE4 was only on T-Type Regals (which the GN and GNX are of too, wierd right?). The WE2 designation is 'supposed' to be for the GN class, yet one of my GN stickers does not have this (lists the package options though - just not WE2). The 'WE*' package designations were all over the place back then and ive seen many contrary descriptions of these the past 3 decades. I do know that while some T-Types did recieve lightweight parts, this was a matter of what was in the parts bins at GM during the manufacturing process at the time the car was made - never saw this as a package option on a Regal. If so, the GN and GNX would have had it. They didnt.
No TTA ever had a "bigger" intercooler than a Turbo Regal or a GNX. All 3 versions are the SAME EXACT SIZE & SHSPE externally. ONLY the fin count per square inch differs between the TTA, the GNX, & the TR intercoolers. As a TTA owner, you should know this!
And drop the WE4 liteweight bs too. A 90 code GN & a WE4 with the same 90 option codes only differ in weight by 60#. Unless a WE4 was ordered as a "sub-60" code car, it's still a 3400+# car and there's nothing liteweight about that.
Thank you ! someone needed to talk about the 3.8 way underrated powerplants that no one ever talks about. I would add that the 3800 Series I-III are equally awesome and incredibly reliable engines.
My parents had an Oldsmobile cutlass international edition with a 3800. Quickest 0-40 car I ever drove. I think it was the way it was tuned or something. It was exceptionally quick off the line.
These have always held a special place in my heart, now all the European compact performance cars (M4, RS5/RS4, C43 Amg, S5/S4, M340i) have a turbocharged 6 cylinder and everyone knows they have impressive potential on the stock turbo and stock motor. The ATS-V and CT4 blackwing are kind of like the modern (luxury) version of the Grand National. Large displacement turbo V6 and Rwd
Ever see the GM testing video on Tube were a GN just outright decimates a twin turbo Callaway 4 out of 4 times? Bad quality because of the era (no digital cameras back then) but you can easily see just how slow a Vette is compared to a GN. Even a hopped up Vette!
I was employed by a Buick for many years during this period. That means I drove many of them and sometimes lucky enough to have one for a demo until someone bought it. In stock form you had to be a pretty good driver to handle one at full throttle. They were manageable off the line but when the turbo came in you really needed to have the wheel pointed straight ahead. What a ride!! I am on the west coast (Orange County). When I would go to the GM training center in Burbank often on the stage they would be projecting a bat signal (like batman) that said "I brake for Corvettes". Just a little poke at the Chevy guys from the Buick personnel. Later, when I owned my own shop, we built more than one than dyno'd over 1000 hp at the rear wheels on my dyno. Those were fun to drive too.
Puts a smile on my face whenever I drive mine- there is nothing like boost! I can't stop at the store or get gas and somebody will come over and start asking questions and talking about it. A 1987 with TA49 turbo, Champion CNC ported iron heads, 42.5 pound Lightning injectors (chipped), Dutweiller neck modded intercooler, Razor's alcohol injection, H&R rear sway bar, all poly suspension bushings, LT1 MAF, Scanmaster, cold air intake, yadda yadda yadda :)
Magnavox Ignition Coil with "waste spark" ignition firing. It's also alledged that the HP/Tq figures were purposely underreported for "insurance reasons". Shout out to legends such as Kenny Duttweiler.
Yes, thats the real reason the ratings were dropped, insurance and fuel taxes. Not GMs embarrassment over a living room outclassing their flagship. The ignition system is called a 'distributorless" ignition. It was the first production performance car to have it. However, every car made since then has it too. Not alot of folks know this but the GN was bringing GM to a close. No longer would GM be known as a good car manufacturer, it was now gonna make front wheel drive POS. That meant, the distributor, carberatuer, and live axle drive was going to the boneyard. Yes to Kenny Belle and Duttweiller! And a few others of that era too!
Buick had a stockpile of the V6 so Pontiac decided to put it between the fenders add better heads and a reworked turbo.Rated 250 by the factory it was more like 300.It was the first pace car that didnt need any mods to be used as a pace car for 1989.It was also the 3rd Pontiac Trans Am to beat the Corvette.With the 1973-1974 455 SD being the other two.
My buddy out of highschool had a 87 GN (not an x) and with a couple simple mods you'd be surprised how quick it was. I had a 98 Cobra at the time full bolt ons and couldn't keep up.
Dude, I have always loved your content. But you have done such a great job putting videos like this together it’s taking your channel to another level. You are an inspiration for my channel!
I had a 92 eagle talon TSI . awd 5 spd turbo, intercooler. 2.0l DOHC The Gen 1 is still my favorite body style of all DSMS to this day. That car was quick for it's day. It was nearly free and easy to get an extra 20 HP out of them. Transmissions sucked bad. Lol
There's a guy near me with the GTA/TA. Still drop dead gorgeous even to this day! These machines were 20-30 years ahead of their time. Also thanks for the cool sounding retro background music. Great video sir.
I was going to school back in the mid 80's and this one guy always had a black mustang, but one day he showed up with a Grand National. We asked him what happened to the mustang, he replied Grand National's beat mustangs all day. He used to street race and he got tired of losing to the Grand Nationals so he bought one.
I loved running down mustangs and cameras with my GN. I installed a bigger turbo, big ass front mount intercooler, huge downpipe, fuel pump and 70mm throttle body so it really breathed at the high end. Some cars had more torque down low and could get off the line faster (I also had shit tires, not drag radials) but the car would really fly at top end and would chase down almost anything. So much fun. GNs at full throttle also sound like a damn jet.
Yessir, I had three of them over the years, every one of them was leaking everywhere and rusting inside from condensation. Cars are meant to be driven, not looked at.
@@brianwebber6996_ROADHUNTER I started my 87 up for my dad (old farmer type who thinks cars are just for point A to B - V8s are all there he's known) in an open faced garage that had nice accoustics. He kinda chuckled and said "What the hell is that?". To this day he still thinks theres something wrong with those engines! lolol Yeah after about 2000rpms the motor eclipses the stock exhaust system, its then you can really hear that 'jet like sound' that GNs are known for. On after market systems its apparent right from the get go.
I bought brand new a 1986 Mustang LX with the GT options. I checked 2 other options, a rear window defogger and a cruise control. Broke the 5 speed a few times racing everything I could on the street. Gran Nationals I always fell a few feet behind, unless it was on the highway, where they ran out of gear. Back then, the biggest separation was your skill. A lot of new car buyers didn't know how to shift because there hadn't been fast cars in 10 years
Grand National didn't run out of gear they were governed from the factory to 124mph and they got there quick. Because of the nose lifting at higher speeds. Took a while for people to bypass it. They had an o/d tranny and without a governor they were good for 155mph if you stayed on the road. 205hp on the LX was good for 140mph to 144mph. Depending on who you talk to. Then in 1989 the SHO was faster still even with mustang at 225hp
I had an 86GT 5-spd and loved that car. Raced a few Grand Nationals at the track and won against them but I never had the chance to run against one on the street.
A few feet...Seriously dude...An LX was only a few tenths if that quicker than a GT. Which was at best a 15 sec car stock. Even the slowest stock Grand National or T-type was in the 13's and was light years faster than anything else Ford had to offer at the time. Only the Saleen, Steeda, and Roush or any other tuner version was faster. And even then the most extreme Street examples still only ran in the 12's. A FEW FEET YEAH a Grand National or T-type on a tire would gap almost any mustang that wasn't seriously nodded or on NOS which was and still is popular for those cars today!!!!!!
When I first heard about this car, the GN as a whole, I was like-"wait, it can beat the Vette? NO way!!" Then I got more details and found out just how true this is!! This is one of the most sought after cars in the world. I've seen it for sale, why I'm not sure, but the price is ASTRONOMICAL!!! Gee, don't know why. I've seen a few at car shows and thought-"man, I'd love to take THAT for a spin!" Funny, you don't ever see this on TV in a car chase with the cops. Just goes to show you that owners of this are MORE responsible than those with many other cars-Hell Cat, Mustang, etc!! Great and informative video!! Thanks for making it!!
I had an ‘86 Mustang back then. I was stationed at Ft Bragg NC and there were several grand nationals around. Before going to Bragg I put a Paxton supercharger on my horse. Everybody who owned a GN would challenge every corvette, camero, and Mustang they saw. I loved the look on their faces as I pulled away from them. I only had one guy ask me if my car was stock. I said no, I added a charger and switched the cats out. He said that’s fair, he had done a little work to his. Those were good days, fun cars, and nobody took it personally
I was at Lejeune in 92...this Corporal took us to Kings Dominion which was by Richmond, dude we made it from Richmond to like New Bern where we got pulled over in like 2 hours in a Mitsubishi Conquest, can't remember the year t was..
True, but before that rancid black paint was dry on these cars (the GM paint was poor quality), after market manufacturers made these parts to bolt on to regular T-Type bodys (not all Regals were of T-Type body). The one part you cant get is the instrument package. Pretty much the only way to tell a real GNX from a faux. That and the title to the car with a matching VIN. Even GNX car number plates can be duped!
@@TheWizardofOblivion There's no such thing as a T-Type body vs Regal body, the chassis was the same across all the models. The T-Type name was a trim package you could get with or without the turbo motor though 1986. They dropped T-Type in 87 and simply went with T. I had an 87 Regal T with WE4 package for many years, I agree the paint was shit.
@@mattjones4285 The chassis was the same - true. They were all the same for the G bodied models. But were not talking chassis, were talking body. An 87 v8 regal next to a T-Type regal has noticable differences. Non T-Type versions were slouchy looking fathers olds types. While the T-Type Regals had the sportier look with well creased body lines. It wasnt just the package add ons. Yes the T-Type was a package with all the emblems and what not, but it was also a body style that it, the GN, and GNX shared. Never saw a T-Type without a turbo6 in it. Saw plenty of 87 T-Types, they stood out 1) because that body style looks so cool no matter what color its in, 2) the paint on those was way better than the GN black. Dont know anyone with bad paint on a T-Type, but im sure it could happen. So i cant doubt that. Seen a few v8 regals, they had good paint but the bodys looked like moms grocery getter. Nothing T-Typish about them. I hope yours is in a garage somewhere resting peacfully. I still have mine.
ALL 81/87 Regal bodies are the exact same, only the header panel/grille/sidemarkers/front bumper fillers/& taillights are different on 81/83 models, vs the 84/87 Regals. There also is no such thing as an '87 T-Type thx the GM dropping the T-Type name from the Regal lineup after 1986. Lots of bs on here is spewed by ones who have never even owned a Turbo Regal.
My favorite car. Uncle got me into them as a kid. It’s funny in 2000 went with my uncle to Kentucky for a week. We happened to be leaving the Corvette Museum and see a bunch of BuickT-Types, GN, GNX hauled on the road. Followed them to a huge event. It was amazing. Great video. Great car.
It didn't "kill the Corvette." It beat it by a few tenths in a quarter mile. Corvettes were too busy kicking Porsche and Lotus' asses winning a third straight undefeated season in SCCA Showroom Stock. It also outsold the GN by about 10k units as well, with the GN getting discontinued the following year... If anyone was wondering Corvettes are still made today.
I know this is a more obscure vehicle and wasn't exactly intended to be what it is now, but I'd love to see one of these on the 1998 5.9L grand Cherokee which was the great granddaddy to the now SRT and trackhawk. Holding the record for fastest 0-60 in a production SUV for 1998. I recall there was a motor trend document on it as well comparing to the Denali of the same year
My brother had a 89 Shelby turbo z Daytona back in 99-2001.. he sold it in 2004. But it ran 12.3 qmile after a few upgrades. T3/t4 hybrid turbo. Built block and ported head. Not much work to make those cars fast.. Daytona only weighed 2800 lbs.. lighter then most super cars.. lol. I miss the 80s turbo cars.. light, quick and affordable fun.. specially the TTOPS.
You should do a vid on the first and second generation Ford Taurus SHO, I say those generations specifically those because they both shared the reliable and powerful 3.0/3.2L Sho V6, all other iterations somewhat fell flat with reliability issues
My sister had an 87 Grand National, and I got to drive it, while I was home on leave. My brother in law was in the passenger seat, and said " give it some gas", so I mashed it, and he said" Shit! Not that much!" Sweet car.
Love the information and knowledge you are putting out. But I'm pissed at GM, for not pushing the turbo technology. GM was messing around with turbos since the 1960's with the Corvair. They perfected it in the 80's with the Gran National. Had another hit with the Syclone, for one model year 90 - 91. Then they forgot about turbos for the next fifteen twenty years! Now imports and even Ford are ahead, big time in technology in the new millennium.
I think we can forgive them, for they did give us the LS, in such numbers that it became the everymans way to speed for a good decade in a multitude of cars. But then again I just love good car design choices, even if radically different. Hell if tesla pulled their head out of their head with the new-coupe and made a fun torquey sportscar out of it like the OG tesla coupe, I'll be a big fan of that.
Euro gang here, inline 6 TT if we're getting specific. I think GM did pretty good. Chevy had some solid diesels(LBZ) and the LS engines were nothing to sleep on. Yeah turbos would have put GM in a whole new ballpark. Probably nonesense (the white collars), you know how it is.
@@SupraSav I'm not sure what you are pointing out about the twin turbo inline 6, but I do love the LS series of V8s! Have a LQ in my 97 Camaro. But GM even developed a turbo Quad 4 from Oldsmobile in in the late 80's. Then forgot about turbo 4 cylinder for the next 20 years, until the Cobalt, Solstice and Sky. Letting the imports run rampant through out the 90's.
GM also turbo’d the little aluminum V8s that were used in the Oldsmobile F-85’s in 1962 and 63. They called them a Jetfire, available only in a hardtop and used the aluminum 215 V8 engines. They made around 300 horse at the tire if I remember correctly but they came with some problems. They used a water/methanol injection system from the factory to keep charge air temps down and helped avoid detonation. GM marketed the mix under their own name. I think they labeled the containers either Rocket fuel or Jet fuel, can’t remember off the top of my head as it’s been so long since I’ve seen one of the jugs that it was sold in. Anyway they had a tank in the engine compartment to hold the mix and when it became low there was a damper to limit air available to the engine sort of like a damper instead of a waste gate. This was all long before my time but learned a lot about it from my grandparents. Grandma has two 63 Olds F-85’s, ones a 4 speed car, the other an automatic. Unfortunately the F-85’s and her 72 442 are all convertibles but still kickass cars either way. Grandma’s in her upper 80’s now but she’s still a badass hot rodder. One more quick note,the little all aluminum 215 V8 was sold by GM to either Range Rover or Land Rover and was still used in the late 80s or early 90s. Those engines still shared a lot with the 60s Olds engine and from what I’ve read there are some speed parts available for them. Thought about using one of grandma’s parts long blocks for one of my first gen Chevy II’s but will probably just small block one and big block the other. Anyway, that was just a little bit more info that I thought was relevant when I saw the mention of the Corvair turbo cars. Have a good one guys. 👍
My great-uncle passed a couple years ago and when dealing with all of his affairs afterwards, we found out he had rented a climate controlled, nice indoor garage bay for the last 45 years or so and never told anyone. Well we went in after his passing and it was a GNX. He must have got some decent cruises out of her but there was only 2,600 miles on the odometer. Most of the family was like "oh it's just an old ugly Buick, post it on craigslist" but a few of my cousins and I had to step in (whilst losing our shit lol) and explain what it was. When people in the town found out, word spread fast. My great-aunt turned down a $250,000 offer because she will auction it but some of us think she just drives it from time to time haha
The GNX is one of my all time favorite cars. Damned shame they only built 547 of em 😭😭😭 Few people remember that the GNX was the fastest production car IN THE WORLD in 1987. Faster than contemporary Lamborghinis and Ferraris.
@@edwardwood3622 True, though it's a bit iffy to compare a GNX to cars costing 10 times the amount in the first place. Of course it'd get destroyed by an F40, or a Yellowbird or something similar, but for cars within the price class it was pretty high up. You'd have to look for stuff like the AMG Hammer and BMW M5 for similar price class/performance.
I just want to say, i REALLY love your videos. I Have been into cars for a while and especially interested in the mechanics behind them, I've never seen videos this indepth about it but also accessible. Great stuff, keep going strong.
I remember when the intercooled versions of the Grand National/T-Type came out and they were the cars to beat. 1986 was the year the OEMs started getting their collective heads about making real performance cars again. The only way to beat the Buicks was to get them heat soaked. The 5.0 Mustangs weren't affected as much in hot weather but the Buicks programming made sure that the power was cut back so that the owner couldn't kill it.
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To this day, I will still get my neck broken by a Regal T-Type, GN, and especially a GNX. These things look better than most modern cars.
Agreed. Some of those civic Type Rs look like fighter jets or spaceships.
Every time
I don't even care if it's a fake GNX. Those mfers go hard.
I just happen to have a GNX.
@@dianecortis2047 you are a very lucky human being, I envy you.
I've always said that 3.8L V-6 was one of the very best GM engines. Hard to believe they stopped making them.
Engine could make good power and very reliable. That does not go well with scrap and buy economy of cars
That block and design came in many sizes, and (If I remember right) was the most produced engine in automotive history at more than 38 million copies.
@@bobhenry6159 - thanks, I didn't know that little tidbit. But I remain amazed that they couldn't just update it somehow and keep it going. It was such a practical workhorse, and a smooth performer. I had supercharged 3.8L in a Pontiac Bonneville SSei, it was terrific.
@@ChevySS1968 Nice. I had the NA 3.8 2000 Bonneville. Loved it.
The engine had reached it's limits. There's only so much you can do with 2 valves and what was a fairly heavy 6 cylinder engine block. Other than the coolant leaks in the intake/plenem gaskets, they were bullet proof. Mine had 240K and running strong when I sold it. Parts were so cheap on that car.
I'm driving a 98 Buick Regal naturally aspirated 3800 series 2. It quit registering miles on me at 250,000 and that was 3 years ago and it's a daily driver. The paint on the top is faded really bad because it's actually really pretty midnight blue metallic paint but they were really bad for clear coat problems I imagine. But anyway I recently took it to the muffler shop because it had a little muffler leak and it had the original catalytic converter so I said what the heck just cut it off and let's straight pipe but put a longer muffler so it's not really loud. Turns out it's not really loud at all but it has a really nice grunt if you're behind it but you can't hear it in the car without the windows down . And even then it growls perfectly at 1800 to 2,000 rpms and quiets right down after that. But back to performance I did not get better than 20 miles to the gallon in that car for the last 6 years no matter how easy I drove that car, but after I had the catalytic converter removed and saw that it was very clogged up you would not believe the amount of torque difference in that car now I can pull out and just give it the gas up to three thousand RPMs and let it shift to the next gear push my foot back in it just a little bit to 3000 RPMs and I'm going 60 miles an hour and just barely touching the gas pedal. Also the power it has climbing hills is day and night since I deleted the catalytic converter but the best part of this rant if you're still reading is I went from getting the 20 miles per gallon up to 26.4 miles a gallon now and I just love that car. They have so much room all leather so comfortable and it feels like you're driving a lazy boy recliner down the road. I guess that's all I've got for now. Remember just check the basics under the hood every time you stop to get gas and I don't care what kind of car you're driving you will get more life out of it. To close this up it uses one quart of oil between oil changes and I change it at 5,000 MI and I always use Castrol GTX oil. Oh, mileage? I know it's near or probably a little bit over 300,000 now. But I have maintenance the car very well over the years. but parts are so cheap you can keep them maintenance for nearly nothing. Have a great day 3.8 lovers!
A twin turbo Buick Grand national was the terror of the track back in my days. A street car it was. The dude ran in the 9-10 sec for 1/4 mile. No one had anything on him.
I believe your are talking about Dutweiler? Red Buick? Back if I'm correct mid late 90's. I'm referring to a drag car for the strip.
@LactoseTheIntolerant
Sounds right. That was a very fast ETA considering how long ago that was.
@@1_Bad_Z No i was reffering a turbo charged grand national, gtx, the black one. BUt modified as a twin turbo. I dont remember all the spec, but the guy basically just switched turbis and intercooler. It was the original internals. Noy even using drag tires. Just the tires he came at the racing track with. Lol Quite a beast of a car.
It looked great 👍 to
Bay Area?
My grandfather had a turbocharged Buick V6 in his jeep during the 80's
What happened to it?
Thanks for making me feel old 😑
Rad
That’s sick
@@TroIIingThemSoftly I get what you're saying but his grandfather having one of these in the 80s doesn't necessarily make his grandfather young lol. It's not like he said "my grandfather had blah blah blah in the 80s when he was 17". His grandfather may have been 35 in the 80s and still could have owned that jeep lol
The performance of these cars aside, they're also damn good looking.
As the original owner of my 31,000 mile 1987 Grand National, some performance bolt ones, not afraid to run against Mustangs and the Dodges, just love showing my tail lights from a 35 year old Buick! 😆
You need to break it in and by the way Shelby with a couple things done to it and you'll see her taillights lol
A stock G-Body should not be able to pin you to the seat like one of these cars can.... but the fact these cars can, makes me love them that much more!
Me and a coworker took another coworker's t type for a little joy ride. I said "damn this car is pretty quick for today!" Imagine how that felt to people in the 80s!
Yeah they were OK for their day, way faster than my 84 Trans Am but in reality my 68 Plymouth Roadrunner and plenty of other pre gas crisis muscle cars like the OG Buick GSX Stage 1 will smoke a GNX like it is standing still. A pure stock naturally aspirated 68-70 Roadrunner will do the quarter anywhere between 13.5 (383) and low 12's/high 11s (Hemi/4speed) depending on what engine/trans/rear axle ratio it came with.
Mine runs about 13.20 on bald street tires and it just has a 360 I pulled out of a junkyard van with a 3 speed automatic. I can't wait to break into the 12s with an oil burning naturally aspirated low compression junkyard small block, especially while everyone else around me is just boosting or spraying to get there.
@@Impactjunky Seriously. Are you high. The 68 Roadrunner was a badass my uncle had his from 69 up until late 03 when it was sold. First off the Buick GSX wasn't faster than both of it's cousins GTO or Chevelle which during that time was by far way faster than anything buick had to offer. Secondly the 360 magnum which was just a bored and stroked 318 will never even come close to offering the same performance a 383 is famous for in any imaginable way stock so stop it and lastly yes these were 12sec terrors in stock form but it wasn't uncommon to encounter 9 or 10sec. bolt-on T-types, GNX's, or Grand National's tearing up tracks at your city nation wide so give credit where credit is due.
@@oldiebutgoo5mccoy493 You need some serious schoolin because I've got the time slips to prove what I said and on top of that the Buick GSX is widely known to be one of the only stock muscle cars that could compete with a Hemi car. It held the world record for highest torque rating in a stock production car for 30+ years until the series 2 V10 viper came out in 2003. You can see them both run 12s in pure stock drags where major modifications are not allowed. And YES my junkyard 360 small block is just a couple tenths behind those legendary big dogs, that's why my car was chosen out of five thousand other badass cars by Car Craft Magazine as one of the top ten budget builds of the 2018 Hot Rod Power Tour.
@@jeffkendel1570 Am I supposed to automatically know or care what a "V" is? Because that still won't make the massively over rated GNX faster than carbureted V8 cars that came out 20 years earlier.
When the original article in Car & Driver came out in 1986 called "Speed is a gunslinger in Black" and a stock intercooled Buick GN went 0-60 in 4.9 seconds I knew this car was going to be an instant legend.
I'm not saying you're wrong or it didn;t happen, but I took a GN owner for a ride in my '70 GS455 clone. Nothing crazy, 12 bolt rear at just 3.31:1, pistons at 10.25:1, aluminum stage 1 heads from T/A, not even bowl work dead stock, a T/A split duration cam just under .500 lift using roller rockers, 800cfm carb dual plane, 7/8" primary tube headers 2.5" exhaust no H or X pipe. And the GN owner's eyes were as big as dinner plates when the avalanche of torque shoved him back.
@@bbb462cid nobody cares
@@_..-.._..-.._ Except your drawers got soiled over my saying it. Tell me more about how you don't care. Are are you this "nobody" you mentioned, or just another internet hero?
@@bbb462cidare you ok? Not enough attention on the home front?
The G bodies are my favorite cars from 83-88. The Monte SS, grand National and 442’s are all good platforms. You just know the bigwigs were asking what the hell are those Buick guys doing over there, made the Corvette look like a waste of money back then
Great thing about G bodies, you can still drop in the powertrain from the 60's and 70's muscle cars without too much extra work and the parts are cheap and plentiful, and the chassis is more 'tunable' than the old A and B body cars... my metric El Camino with a v8 and 4 speed is way more fun to drive than the old barge body 2 door Impala I grew up with :)
@@mcwrench45 the G-bodies are essentially a continuation of the old A-body cars. Everything underneath my 85 Cutlass is the exact same as my pops' 66 Chevelle, albeit with metric nuts and bolts
@@AndrewDorsey27 I reckon it looks that way until you start swapping parts.... the 7.5 inch diff in my El Camino didn't come out until about 1977, axles and other parts are later design... the 10.5 inch clutch and smaller bell housing are G body designs, the larger bell housing and 11 or 12 inch clutch from the 60's won't fit, as I've tried it... too big unless you wanna cut tunnel out... seems older rods from the 60's had mostly 15 inch wheels and 4 wheel drum brakes, while the G bodies got 14 inch wheels and front disc... lots of other changes in the metric cars, but you don't really notice them until you try swapping out parts.... then the details become more apparent....
That 3.8L v6 was no joke. Had one in my Grand Prix GTP. Absolutely love it and the car, tho red, was a sleeper. I had recently started to look for Grand Nationals and has a line a a few that were at the $12k range with under 100k on the clock as of 2020. Some low mile examples were already at the $40k+ mark. Hard to find even a project now at all under $20k.
sad bro and we are clearly headed to the end of gas project cars, they should be getting cheaper. cash for clunkers is a reason to hate obama
Keep lookin man, we’re about to see a MASSIVE crash in the car market from banks loaning people money for cars and payments they couldn’t afford after Covid. Which in turn is making people default on their loans and the bank repossessing their cars and having to auction them or sell them at a HUGE loss. The loss is already in the trillions and it started three-ish months ago I believe.
I have a GN that I'm selling it's not a project car either
I had a gtp also. Lots of performance parts on it. It was quick!
@@alsson3137 outta curiosity, what are you asking for it and how many miles?
"You can get it in any color as long as it was black"
"you can have any brew you want as long as its a corona"
The GN is still my favorite muscle car of all time. Mainly because of the sheer absurdity that this thing got up to. That’s why I love old American muscle, the sheer absurdity behind them all. More power? Shove a motor that should be home in a truck under the hood. But a small turbo V6 knocking everything else down a peg? That’s sheer absurdity for a long shot!!
You must get paid every time you type “sheer absurdity” Brought to you by Carls Jr
I have a 1987 high 9 second grand National and honestly it’s the funnest car ever. The grand National does not care if another car is faster it will simply beat it anyways with it’s grit
You forgot to mention. Buick & Pontiac wanted to put a Turbo-v6 in a pickup truck. GM didn't want either brands selling pickup trucks under and Chevy said no, but GMC said yes.
Thus, the GMC Syclone & Typhoon were born. Both at 280hp & 350 lb-ft with the Syclone holding the record of fastest production car on the planet at the time, beating out the Ferrari 348ts in a quarter-mile and kicking off the 90s muscle-truck era. Chevy would follow-up the Syclone with the Silverado 454 SS, Ford would come out with the F150 SVT Lightning, and Dodge with the RAM SRT-10 to close the muscle-truck era.
Revealing the next video lol😎
I wanted a Syclone sooooooooooooooooo bad when I was a teenager.
@@337speed Please make a video on Ford's 289/302 1960's & 70's era Small blocks. Thanks.
@@337speed hells yeah, you saying you're doing a vid on the Typhoon/Syclone twins just got me to subscribe to your channel!
@Jeremy Nottingham to be fair, average police cars have been behind the curve as actual persuit vehicles for a long, long time lol
Minor correction.......the original turbo system was a draw through style using a Quadrajet carb. The same style system would be used on the 80-81 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am
I have that car and it was terror in 1980 and 81.
@@kellyhill6414 a lot of people sleep on the 4.9 Turbo. Quite a few got raced in Stock class style drag racing. Tuning and race fuel......
I correct your correction you are rong!
@@chrisreynolds2410 how old are you?
@@hoost3056 my dad had a champagne colored screamin chicken with the golden full bird hood and t tops. He would take me for a rides in it (at the time I was 4-5 yrs old) . I remember it having this thing on the hood that would turn colors as it went faster. I now understand it for what it was but at the time I didn't. He would get up to 130+ mph like it was nothing. He would tell me, don't tell your mother we were going that fast. I never did. I loved the way it would pin me back.lol It had gold rims too. It was a very nice looking car.
I remember one of those showed up at a local drag strip one weekend and they were laughed at because they brought a V-6 powered car to the track! The laughter didn’t last long though! A lot of people ended up with hurt feelings after he taught quite a few lessons to quite a few people!
What makes a GNX a GNX the internal or the heads
@Marcus Neither, the internals are the same as a Grand National, they had a ceramic impeller turbo, ram more boost, had an upgraded intercooler and exhaust among other things to squeeze more power out of them.
Same thing happens when a dodge I'll red express shoes up.
Hellcat? No. You mean the Grand National/GNX was like the Dodge Challenger Demon in the 1980s
My o!d man had a 1987 Regal T-Type...I was in high school 1992-96... I used to fill it with friends and still never lost a race lol...Being a decent looking guy in that GORGEOUS car, with a spacious back seat, let's just say I was popular with the ladies!! Man, those were the days...Thanks for the video, and the memories it brought back!!
There's no such thing as an "87 T-Type. Buick dropped that name from the Regal lineup after 1986 & thus the reason your old man's Regal didn't have "T-Type" badges on the fenders, nor did it have the 84/86 "W11" T-Type option code on it's SPID label.
@@michaelmccoy3007 Give me your number and I'll send you a picture of it, Chief!
I pulled up next to one of these at a red light in my 88 IROC Camaro with the 5.7 TPI. Light turned green and I watched his taillights all the way up the street, and that was a slightly built Camaro, with a shift kit and a 3.73 posi rear. These cars are quick, maybe not by todays standards, stock they stand no chance against a Hellcat or ZL1, but still in there time they were the quickest thing you could buy from the dealer.
I love driving my Grand national. That car is an absolute head turner every time you drive it and everyone seems to want to race you. Don't forget with the GNX they also had the longitudinal lateral bar for the differential. It would keep the differential from rotating by pressing it harder to the ground and lifting the rear so that it can put more power down to the pavement. If you ever get a chance to ride in one it will put a smile guaranteed on anyone's face.
And only Buick put the torque arm on the correct RIGHT side so it helped hold the right rear tire down...
I'm a81' baby and my father had two Oldsmobile Omega's Blue 19814 door's brougham and a 84 omega grey brougham 4dr
I got the chance to ride in a GNX, I own one, #069.
They should have put a better dash in it tho
@@witdashitz7187 early attempts at small car luxury - I think the frame was Nova like
Cadillac Seville
The biggest difference between the gnx and the next package below it was the extra support rod that ran from the differential to the subframe and allowed almost all the torque to be applied to the tires and also helped reduce the problem known as the "G-body shuffle".
Ahh so that's why that one had a bit of a shuffle as it hooked up and most the others didn't
Panhard bar?
The GNX rear suspension utilized a "ladder bar" for traction & a panhard bar to keep the 8.5 rearend centered between the frame rails.
30yr going and still and always takes my breath away when boost kicks in!
Special thanks to Smokey Yunick on his input to get this engine to the masses. After all this time it's good to see that 3.8 in so many platforms. GTR anyone.
Respect to all the gearheads out there.
I love your uploads. Thank you for this one.
"back in the day" I was driving a friend's car that was quick. A GNX played with us on a highway and @ 70mph, decided to stop playing with us and left tire smoke and our eyes wide. Good times;
Thanks again.
Lee
I owned a 87 gn for many years. I’m certain it made 15 lbs of boost in 1st and second gear if you had good enough gas. Not the 12psi mentioned in video. By simply swapping the ECM‘s PROM with one from Kenny Bell will then increase your boost to 17 psi in first and second gear. Good for 2-3 tenths in 1320ft. 13.73 & 100.9 mph best ever with factory tires and exhaust and just the chip and good gas. Seen other Gns go deeper into the 13s claiming only a chip.
I've seen Buick turbo motored cars run high 12's all day on just a chip. The Turbo TA's especially.
Thank you 337speed for doing the topic that I requested for I absolutely fell in love with these cars when one of my buddies dad used to own his 87' GN & I had the privilege to drive it quite a few times it was a blast when that boost kicks in as we took it for a drive in it every Sunday night cruise & every time we were stopped @ a light these 5L fox bodies would pull up & try to race but could not stand a chance against this thing it was a beast for its time Long live the turbo buicks 💪🏽😎 but it's funny after 30+ yrs later how most manufacturers are going back to this kind of technology lol
I had the pleasure of driving one of these cars brand new off the showroom floor in 1987 and had a field day. Your synopsis and analysis was very accurate about these vehicles including the aftermarket like Duttweiler.
Man, I am loving this series! An episode on the GM 3800 would be sick.
Excellent video sir. Finally some very accurate information. As an 89 TTA owner, I just wanted to comment that the HP/TQ rating is "Advertised." Chevrolet was still pissing and moaning about the Buick's and now that the 3.8 was in a lighter unrestricted Trans Am, they were once again going to have to face the music with the Corvettes. PAS, the company that performed the engine swaps for the TTA's had to dyno the vehicles for reliability and warranty purposes. Due to the change to the better flowing heads, bigger intercooler and specific PAS E-PROM tune, they were routinely seeing 300+ HP at the crank. Chevrolet was making a big stink about this vehicles production so Pontiac told PAS they had to tune down closer to the Corvettes HP numbers, which was 245 HP at that time. PAS pulled a fast one and disconnected the intercoolers during the certification runs and measured the output at the wheels. So that 250 is actually rear wheel HP with no intercooler. If you do the math you can see this. My car is bone stock and when it was 20 years old with 40k miles on it, I was running 13.1 1/4 mile times at 109 mph. And an aside, the light weight Turbo Regal you mentioned was actually another limited edition and separate from the Regal T's and GN's. It was designated option WE4 and was a special lightweight package and only 1547 were built.
Actually the 153 mph top speed on a turbo Trans Am wasn't the highest top speed. they ran it back the other way and did 161 mph up against a new Corvette back in 89 or 90 in Corvette magazine . which I believe I still have somewhere
The GN and GNX ratings were dropped not because of GMs embarrassment, but because of fuel taxes and more insanely..... insurance regulations. Stupid huh? Yeah, a few folks over at Chevy were a bit peeved some lil V6 strapped to a living room blew the doors off their flagship, EASILY! But that was 3 years before the T/A. The numbers werent dropped because of red faces, it was political BS invading the car manufacturing process. All in all 5 Vette killers were made by GM - GN, GNX, TT/A, Cyclone, Typhoon. GM coulda been taxed or sued by Uncle Sam for the numbers, but not for embarrasment. Thats the reason the numbers were changed. If they were that embarrassed, after 87, the TT/A, Cyclone and Typhoon would never had been produced.
As for the WE4 package designation, dont give that too much creedance. Ive seen that on alot of Regals and of differing types. Only thing to note here was the WE4 was only on T-Type Regals (which the GN and GNX are of too, wierd right?). The WE2 designation is 'supposed' to be for the GN class, yet one of my GN stickers does not have this (lists the package options though - just not WE2). The 'WE*' package designations were all over the place back then and ive seen many contrary descriptions of these the past 3 decades. I do know that while some T-Types did recieve lightweight parts, this was a matter of what was in the parts bins at GM during the manufacturing process at the time the car was made - never saw this as a package option on a Regal. If so, the GN and GNX would have had it. They didnt.
No TTA ever had a "bigger" intercooler than a Turbo Regal or a GNX. All 3 versions are the SAME EXACT SIZE & SHSPE externally. ONLY the fin count per square inch differs between the TTA, the GNX, & the TR intercoolers. As a TTA owner, you should know this!
And drop the WE4 liteweight bs too. A 90 code GN & a WE4 with the same 90 option codes only differ in weight by 60#. Unless a WE4 was ordered as a "sub-60" code car, it's still a 3400+# car and there's nothing liteweight about that.
Thank you ! someone needed to talk about the 3.8 way underrated powerplants that no one ever talks about. I would add that the 3800 Series I-III are equally awesome and incredibly reliable engines.
My parents had an Oldsmobile cutlass international edition with a 3800. Quickest 0-40 car I ever drove. I think it was the way it was tuned or something. It was exceptionally quick off the line.
These have always held a special place in my heart, now all the European compact performance cars (M4, RS5/RS4, C43 Amg, S5/S4, M340i) have a turbocharged 6 cylinder and everyone knows they have impressive potential on the stock turbo and stock motor.
The ATS-V and CT4 blackwing are kind of like the modern (luxury) version of the Grand National. Large displacement turbo V6 and Rwd
Awesome machine
Awesome video and great job telling the story/history of the 3.8!
I'm a GM fan to my heart.the Grand National was bad boy in its era. The Chevy Corvette with the Callaway package was way fast.
Ever see the GM testing video on Tube were a GN just outright decimates a twin turbo Callaway 4 out of 4 times? Bad quality because of the era (no digital cameras back then) but you can easily see just how slow a Vette is compared to a GN. Even a hopped up Vette!
I was employed by a Buick for many years during this period. That means I drove many of them and sometimes lucky enough to have one for a demo until someone bought it. In stock form you had to be a pretty good driver to handle one at full throttle. They were manageable off the line but when the turbo came in you really needed to have the wheel pointed straight ahead. What a ride!! I am on the west coast (Orange County). When I would go to the GM training center in Burbank often on the stage they would be projecting a bat signal (like batman) that said "I brake for Corvettes". Just a little poke at the Chevy guys from the Buick personnel. Later, when I owned my own shop, we built more than one than dyno'd over 1000 hp at the rear wheels on my dyno. Those were fun to drive too.
6:03 It would be hard to beat in the twisties too considering the WS6 performance suspension package. Especially with the lighter v6 out front.
bs, the handling was crap. It's not as if it had double-wishbones or anything
Dawg, you’re on point. I appreciate your videos, and I have yet to see an error from you. Keep up the good work bro.
Great video. Nice that you included the TTA as well. I had one and it was FAST when the weather was cold.
HELLLLLL YESSSSSSS I COMMENTED THAT YOU SHOULD DO THIS VIDEO. LETS GOOOOOOO
I own a 86 turbo regal. I love it. 450 whp and 650 torque. It’s nuts.
Yup! Dude that’s badass, killer power for the street!
The 3.8 was also available supercharged in the 1997 Pontiac GTP. Amazing engine. RIP Missy.
Also had a Bonneville with the same setup
Puts a smile on my face whenever I drive mine- there is nothing like boost! I can't stop at the store or get gas and somebody will come over and start asking questions and talking about it. A 1987 with TA49 turbo, Champion CNC ported iron heads, 42.5 pound Lightning injectors (chipped), Dutweiller neck modded intercooler, Razor's alcohol injection, H&R rear sway bar, all poly suspension bushings, LT1 MAF, Scanmaster, cold air intake, yadda yadda yadda :)
Unbelievable!!! The Absolute Best Video I've seen on RUclips!!! I Love it!!!
Magnavox Ignition Coil with "waste spark" ignition firing. It's also alledged that the HP/Tq figures were purposely underreported for "insurance reasons". Shout out to legends such as Kenny Duttweiler.
Yes, thats the real reason the ratings were dropped, insurance and fuel taxes. Not GMs embarrassment over a living room outclassing their flagship. The ignition system is called a 'distributorless" ignition. It was the first production performance car to have it. However, every car made since then has it too. Not alot of folks know this but the GN was bringing GM to a close. No longer would GM be known as a good car manufacturer, it was now gonna make front wheel drive POS. That meant, the distributor, carberatuer, and live axle drive was going to the boneyard.
Yes to Kenny Belle and Duttweiller! And a few others of that era too!
Strong stock internals and 180 intake cc heads were perfect for that turbo set up
Seriously GREAT video! A ton of good information in a short amount of time and very entertaining!
I love these series of videos, keep up the good work!
Buick had a stockpile of the V6 so Pontiac decided to put it between the fenders add better heads and a reworked turbo.Rated 250 by the factory it was more like 300.It was the first pace car that didnt need any mods to be used as a pace car for 1989.It was also the 3rd Pontiac Trans Am to beat the Corvette.With the 1973-1974 455 SD being the other two.
My buddy out of highschool had a 87 GN (not an x) and with a couple simple mods you'd be surprised how quick it was. I had a 98 Cobra at the time full bolt ons and couldn't keep up.
I check everyday for videos you got a sweet lane keep ‘‘em coming 💪🏾
Dude, I have always loved your content. But you have done such a great job putting videos like this together it’s taking your channel to another level. You are an inspiration for my channel!
The next engine you should do is the 4G63. I think its well overdue and deserves some respect on its name.
What's a 4G63?
@@BuzzLOLOL lan evo engine.
I had a 92 eagle talon TSI . awd 5 spd turbo, intercooler. 2.0l DOHC The Gen 1 is still my favorite body style of all DSMS to this day. That car was quick for it's day. It was nearly free and easy to get an extra 20 HP out of them. Transmissions sucked bad. Lol
The Hellcat is the Grand National of this time. Those motors handle insane boost.
There's a guy near me with the GTA/TA. Still drop dead gorgeous even to this day! These machines were 20-30 years ahead of their time. Also thanks for the cool sounding retro background music. Great video sir.
TTA
These videos are great! Keep em coming
2JZ: I'm the strongest 6 cylinder ever made!
Turbo Buick V6: Allow me to introduce myself
no ricer company will make a v6 like this ever
@@RTBOY954x VR38?
It's definitely up there as a strong V6, along with VG30 and VR38 from the good ol' Japanese.
I was going to school back in the mid 80's and this one guy always had a black mustang, but one day he showed up with a Grand National. We asked him what happened to the mustang, he replied Grand National's beat mustangs all day. He used to street race and he got tired of losing to the Grand Nationals so he bought one.
New fav series on RUclips
great video, thanks .... brings back good memories ...
I loved running down mustangs and cameras with my GN. I installed a bigger turbo, big ass front mount intercooler, huge downpipe, fuel pump and 70mm throttle body so it really breathed at the high end. Some cars had more torque down low and could get off the line faster (I also had shit tires, not drag radials) but the car would really fly at top end and would chase down almost anything. So much fun. GNs at full throttle also sound like a damn jet.
Yessir, I had three of them over the years, every one of them was leaking everywhere and rusting inside from condensation. Cars are meant to be driven, not looked at.
My dad had an 87 T-Type... I've yet to hear anything sound like that thing did!! One of a kind sound!! Sounded like a jet airplane!! No doubt!!
@@brianwebber6996_ROADHUNTER I started my 87 up for my dad (old farmer type who thinks cars are just for point A to B - V8s are all there he's known) in an open faced garage that had nice accoustics. He kinda chuckled and said "What the hell is that?". To this day he still thinks theres something wrong with those engines! lolol
Yeah after about 2000rpms the motor eclipses the stock exhaust system, its then you can really hear that 'jet like sound' that GNs are known for. On after market systems its apparent right from the get go.
GM never built an '87 T-Type. They're "Turbo T's' since no T-Type badges are anywhere on the car, nor is the "W11" T-Type code on the SPID label.
I bought brand new a 1986 Mustang LX with the GT options. I checked 2 other options, a rear window defogger and a cruise control. Broke the 5 speed a few times racing everything I could on the street. Gran Nationals I always fell a few feet behind, unless it was on the highway, where they ran out of gear. Back then, the biggest separation was your skill. A lot of new car buyers didn't know how to shift because there hadn't been fast cars in 10 years
Grand National didn't run out of gear they were governed from the factory to 124mph and they got there quick. Because of the nose lifting at higher speeds. Took a while for people to bypass it. They had an o/d tranny and without a governor they were good for 155mph if you stayed on the road. 205hp on the LX was good for 140mph to 144mph. Depending on who you talk to. Then in 1989 the SHO was faster still even with mustang at 225hp
I had an 86GT 5-spd and loved that car. Raced a few Grand Nationals at the track and won against them but I never had the chance to run against one on the street.
A few feet...Seriously dude...An LX was only a few tenths if that quicker than a GT. Which was at best a 15 sec car stock. Even the slowest stock Grand National or T-type was in the 13's and was light years faster than anything else Ford had to offer at the time. Only the Saleen, Steeda, and Roush or any other tuner version was faster. And even then the most extreme Street examples still only ran in the 12's. A FEW FEET YEAH a Grand National or T-type on a tire would gap almost any mustang that wasn't seriously nodded or on NOS which was and still is popular for those cars today!!!!!!
A GNX would add a bus length ahead of your Mustang in every gear... until it hit speed limiter...
If you thought you were racing a grand national I promise you the guy had no idea you were even trying to race him 😂
When I first heard about this car, the GN as a whole, I was like-"wait, it can beat the Vette? NO way!!" Then I got more details and found out just how true this is!! This is one of the most sought after cars in the world. I've seen it for sale, why I'm not sure, but the price is ASTRONOMICAL!!! Gee, don't know why. I've seen a few at car shows and thought-"man, I'd love to take THAT for a spin!" Funny, you don't ever see this on TV in a car chase with the cops. Just goes to show you that owners of this are MORE responsible than those with many other cars-Hell Cat, Mustang, etc!!
Great and informative video!! Thanks for making it!!
Love your voiceover man. Didn’t get bored at all watching the whole video.
I had an ‘86 Mustang back then. I was stationed at Ft Bragg NC and there were several grand nationals around. Before going to Bragg I put a Paxton supercharger on my horse. Everybody who owned a GN would challenge every corvette, camero, and Mustang they saw. I loved the look on their faces as I pulled away from them. I only had one guy ask me if my car was stock. I said no, I added a charger and switched the cats out. He said that’s fair, he had done a little work to his. Those were good days, fun cars, and nobody took it personally
I was at Lejeune in 92...this Corporal took us to Kings Dominion which was by Richmond, dude we made it from Richmond to like New Bern where we got pulled over in like 2 hours in a Mitsubishi Conquest, can't remember the year t was..
Great video, just wanted to add the GNX had fender flairs, front fender vents and a special rear suspension added to it also.
True, but before that rancid black paint was dry on these cars (the GM paint was poor quality), after market manufacturers made these parts to bolt on to regular T-Type bodys (not all Regals were of T-Type body). The one part you cant get is the instrument package. Pretty much the only way to tell a real GNX from a faux. That and the title to the car with a matching VIN. Even GNX car number plates can be duped!
@@TheWizardofOblivion There's no such thing as a T-Type body vs Regal body, the chassis was the same across all the models. The T-Type name was a trim package you could get with or without the turbo motor though 1986. They dropped T-Type in 87 and simply went with T. I had an 87 Regal T with WE4 package for many years, I agree the paint was shit.
@@mattjones4285 The chassis was the same - true. They were all the same for the G bodied models. But were not talking chassis, were talking body. An 87 v8 regal next to a T-Type regal has noticable differences. Non T-Type versions were slouchy looking fathers olds types. While the T-Type Regals had the sportier look with well creased body lines. It wasnt just the package add ons. Yes the T-Type was a package with all the emblems and what not, but it was also a body style that it, the GN, and GNX shared. Never saw a T-Type without a turbo6 in it. Saw plenty of 87 T-Types, they stood out 1) because that body style looks so cool no matter what color its in, 2) the paint on those was way better than the GN black. Dont know anyone with bad paint on a T-Type, but im sure it could happen. So i cant doubt that. Seen a few v8 regals, they had good paint but the bodys looked like moms grocery getter. Nothing T-Typish about them. I hope yours is in a garage somewhere resting peacfully. I still have mine.
ALL 81/87 Regal bodies are the exact same, only the header panel/grille/sidemarkers/front bumper fillers/& taillights are different on 81/83 models, vs the 84/87 Regals. There also is no such thing as an '87 T-Type thx the GM dropping the T-Type name from the Regal lineup after 1986. Lots of bs on here is spewed by ones who have never even owned a Turbo Regal.
My favorite car. Uncle got me into them as a kid. It’s funny in 2000 went with my uncle to Kentucky for a week. We happened to be leaving the Corvette Museum and see a bunch of BuickT-Types, GN, GNX hauled on the road. Followed them to a huge event. It was amazing. Great video. Great car.
Bruv you’re killing it at these videos! 👏🙏💯💯😎
It didn't "kill the Corvette." It beat it by a few tenths in a quarter mile. Corvettes were too busy kicking Porsche and Lotus' asses winning a third straight undefeated season in SCCA Showroom Stock. It also outsold the GN by about 10k units as well, with the GN getting discontinued the following year... If anyone was wondering Corvettes are still made today.
Sidefx996 yes..! see my response also…😎
Calm down corvettes will always be cool! Not as much as the GN though lol
337 going crazy with the Explained Series! Awesome content
This is becoming my favorite channel! Excellent video!
Thanks for showing love to one of the most legendary cars of all time!
Dude you found a good series, making these in-depth videos about cars is not only entreating, but theres endless content you can make
I know this is a more obscure vehicle and wasn't exactly intended to be what it is now, but I'd love to see one of these on the 1998 5.9L grand Cherokee which was the great granddaddy to the now SRT and trackhawk. Holding the record for fastest 0-60 in a production SUV for 1998. I recall there was a motor trend document on it as well comparing to the Denali of the same year
I have that model exactly 98 GC 5.9. Have a few mods original paint no rust i love it.
This video kept a smile on my face watching it the whole way through Thank You 😊
The American straight six is no chump either. Fantastic informative engaging is how I would rate these videos thank you!!!!!
The COOLEST car of the 80s…
Agreed, if I won the lottery I’d have a 87 GN and GNX twin😎
This man struck gold with his channel !
Every video presentation is very interesting !👍🏽
Best automotive INFO channel on youtube! PLEASE, never change.
awesome video! thank you for posting!
My brother had a 89 Shelby turbo z Daytona back in 99-2001.. he sold it in 2004.
But it ran 12.3 qmile after a few upgrades. T3/t4 hybrid turbo. Built block and ported head. Not much work to make those cars fast.. Daytona only weighed 2800 lbs.. lighter then most super cars.. lol.
I miss the 80s turbo cars.. light, quick and affordable fun.. specially the TTOPS.
You should do a vid on the first and second generation Ford Taurus SHO, I say those generations specifically those because they both shared the reliable and powerful 3.0/3.2L Sho V6, all other iterations somewhat fell flat with reliability issues
My sister had an 87 Grand National, and I got to drive it, while I was home on leave. My brother in law was in the passenger seat, and said " give it some gas", so I mashed it, and he said" Shit! Not that much!" Sweet car.
I love these videos. Keep up the good work.
The same engine was used in the 89 turbo trans am. Available only in white. Those things are beautiful
Except the heads were different.
More than just the heads differed from an 86/87 "109 block" LC2 vs the "SGI" blocked TTA LC2.
I always say the GNX is the 'Murrican Skyline GT-R (R32).
I like that😂👍 almost like the GTST since it’s RWD
Well done, your info was awesome 👌🏽
I've owned one and still to this day. I miss my baby.
Great video man!
Love the information and knowledge you are putting out. But I'm pissed at GM, for not pushing the turbo technology. GM was messing around with turbos since the 1960's with the Corvair. They perfected it in the 80's with the Gran National. Had another hit with the Syclone, for one model year 90 - 91. Then they forgot about turbos for the next fifteen twenty years! Now imports and even Ford are ahead, big time in technology in the new millennium.
I think we can forgive them, for they did give us the LS, in such numbers that it became the everymans way to speed for a good decade in a multitude of cars. But then again I just love good car design choices, even if radically different. Hell if tesla pulled their head out of their head with the new-coupe and made a fun torquey sportscar out of it like the OG tesla coupe, I'll be a big fan of that.
They've made up for it since. The `90s were a dark time, though.
Euro gang here, inline 6 TT if we're getting specific. I think GM did pretty good. Chevy had some solid diesels(LBZ) and the LS engines were nothing to sleep on. Yeah turbos would have put GM in a whole new ballpark. Probably nonesense (the white collars), you know how it is.
@@SupraSav I'm not sure what you are pointing out about the twin turbo inline 6, but I do love the LS series of V8s! Have a LQ in my 97 Camaro. But GM even developed a turbo Quad 4 from Oldsmobile in in the late 80's. Then forgot about turbo 4 cylinder for the next 20 years, until the Cobalt, Solstice and Sky. Letting the imports run rampant through out the 90's.
GM also turbo’d the little aluminum V8s that were used in the Oldsmobile F-85’s in 1962 and 63. They called them a Jetfire, available only in a hardtop and used the aluminum 215 V8 engines. They made around 300 horse at the tire if I remember correctly but they came with some problems. They used a water/methanol injection system from the factory to keep charge air temps down and helped avoid detonation. GM marketed the mix under their own name. I think they labeled the containers either Rocket fuel or Jet fuel, can’t remember off the top of my head as it’s been so long since I’ve seen one of the jugs that it was sold in. Anyway they had a tank in the engine compartment to hold the mix and when it became low there was a damper to limit air available to the engine sort of like a damper instead of a waste gate. This was all long before my time but learned a lot about it from my grandparents. Grandma has two 63 Olds F-85’s, ones a 4 speed car, the other an automatic. Unfortunately the F-85’s and her 72 442 are all convertibles but still kickass cars either way. Grandma’s in her upper 80’s now but she’s still a badass hot rodder.
One more quick note,the little all aluminum 215 V8 was sold by GM to either Range Rover or Land Rover and was still used in the late 80s or early 90s. Those engines still shared a lot with the 60s Olds engine and from what I’ve read there are some speed parts available for them. Thought about using one of grandma’s parts long blocks for one of my first gen Chevy II’s but will probably just small block one and big block the other. Anyway, that was just a little bit more info that I thought was relevant when I saw the mention of the Corvair turbo cars. Have a good one guys. 👍
My great-uncle passed a couple years ago and when dealing with all of his affairs afterwards, we found out he had rented a climate controlled, nice indoor garage bay for the last 45 years or so and never told anyone. Well we went in after his passing and it was a GNX. He must have got some decent cruises out of her but there was only 2,600 miles on the odometer. Most of the family was like "oh it's just an old ugly Buick, post it on craigslist" but a few of my cousins and I had to step in (whilst losing our shit lol) and explain what it was. When people in the town found out, word spread fast. My great-aunt turned down a $250,000 offer because she will auction it but some of us think she just drives it from time to time haha
Sounds like what bulls drop in pastures.
Great video. One of my favorite production cars ever.
Thanks for sharing our clips :-) awesome video
The GNX is one of my all time favorite cars. Damned shame they only built 547 of em 😭😭😭 Few people remember that the GNX was the fastest production car IN THE WORLD in 1987. Faster than contemporary Lamborghinis and Ferraris.
GNX was not quicker than contemporary Lamborghini’s and Ferrari’s. The F40, Testarossa, 959 and Countach were all quicker and faster.
@@edwardwood3622 True, though it's a bit iffy to compare a GNX to cars costing 10 times the amount in the first place. Of course it'd get destroyed by an F40, or a Yellowbird or something similar, but for cars within the price class it was pretty high up.
You'd have to look for stuff like the AMG Hammer and BMW M5 for similar price class/performance.
Also, many regal t type turbos weren't grand nationals. You had diff trims. Regal, regal t type, gran national, and the full race version the GNX
True but those were rare
Effing great video man. Loved it and what an engine.
Dude this is so cool
There's so much history to be learned
It has a considerably distinct exhaust note, that is pleasing to the ears, yet not entirely bombastic.
Love these old cars!
Loved these cars! My neighbor growing up had one. My other neighbor had a "Regal T-Type"...but not sure if that was the same engine as the GN?
Pretty much yes
Just learned from the vid...same engine🏁👍🏁
I never understood why they stopped making them when they were one of the kings of its time
@@MorGuitarz I think we can probably blame poor executives at GM
Just found your channel bro. LOVE it!
My first car was an 87 Turbo T. I miss that car so much.
I just want to say, i REALLY love your videos.
I Have been into cars for a while and especially interested in the mechanics behind them, I've never seen videos this indepth about it but also accessible.
Great stuff, keep going strong.
I remember when the intercooled versions of the Grand National/T-Type came out and they were the cars to beat.
1986 was the year the OEMs started getting their collective heads about making real performance cars again. The only way to beat the Buicks was to get them heat soaked. The 5.0 Mustangs weren't affected as much in hot weather but the Buicks programming made sure that the power was cut back so that the owner couldn't kill it.
Except they were all the cars to beat in 84/85 since Turbo Regals were the quickest cars built in the US from 84/87.
Stellar video man !
Great work!!