Its neat stuff - between rolling and expanding and different cell types available it can be formed into much more flexible shapes than paper honeycombs. Can be frustrating though!
Great video! Your videos have taught me a lot about different materials and how to bond them together. It would be helpful to understand how the composites you build compare to one another in terms of strength. It would be great if you could do some simple strength tests such as point loading the center and/or torsional strength by holding one end stationary while twisting the other end. This doesn't have to be an expensive scientific test, just simply load each sample with a specified amount of weight and measure the flexion or take it to the point of failure.
That's a great idea! I'm working on building "families" of samples that can be compared with a simple bending test. Because I didn't integrate this from the beginning, I'll have to go back and test the samples and make separate videos - which is probably better anyway so they are easier to compare. The EC! website and videos are a work in progress and it is great to hear what you'd find useful - thanks!
You're one of the few people I've seen handle these super thin G10 sheets, and I need to know if they could withstand constant vibration unsupported. They're a candidate for a large array speaker idea.
Could this be used to repair a RV roof section? So I have a 3" raised section that is maybe 3' by 5' that the air conditioner sits on. It is sagging and I thought this could be used to replace the wood panel / fiberglass section. This new section would be fiberglassed bonded into the 3" sidewall.
This would probably work, but it'll be an expensive option! You can buy pre-laminated cored panels with foam core. If you want this process, you could use fiberglass sheet instead of G10 over any type of core. Aluminum is very stiff but won't be the most economical or easy to deal with. You can usually get surplus honeycomb core on eBay though if you want to try it.
okay when you said "we are relying on the resin to form little fillets in the honey comb", that made no sense to me, like it would make tiny little cut away's, but then i thought of the auto cad symbol for fillet and instantly knew what you were talking about with that right angle bond lol. wait is fillet vs fill-ey a different word or just different pronunceations? lol
I guess it can be spelled with one or two L's depending on where you're from. I'd say "fill-ay" for a piece of a fish and "fill-it" for an inside radius thing.
@@ExploreComposites :p found a super cheap source of g10 0.5mm, 40 cents a slice as lifepo4 battery insulation sheets. more videos on that please if you get the time =] thanks for your time
This is useful as I never knew you could buy 1/32" G-10 like that. But here is what I am really interested in- How do you edge join honeycomb or foam core panels- one after the other and still look nice yet have a joint be as strong as the panel? Specifically a panel that already has its fiberglass skins on both sides to another one like it. By the way, CarbonCore manufactures a polypropylene honeycomb panel that has a scrim of polyester fabric bonded to it which retains the resin from running into the cells of the honeycomb. (I just subscribed to your channel and hit thumbs up for 60) Perhaps you could do Patreon to support the channel.
Joining cored panels with thin skins is hard. Easiest is a splice block that laps each skin but thats ugly. Best is s full scarf - 30:1 or so - on each skin with laminate fully spanning the joint feathered out into the panel. Not easy with 1/32” skins! It helps to rebate panel edges if you can so you don’t have to grind in scarfs. Looking into that CarbonCore (Plascore makes similar - probably others) plastic honeycomb. Going to get some for a sample in the next few months. Interested in infusing on it and seeing how it works! Have you had good results with it?
Common practice for hobbyists is to use Cab-O-Sil or equivalent to thicken the epoxy to something between a mayonnaise and a peanut butter consistency. Use that to edge-join the cores using a lap joint or a simple butt joint. The skins are joined, ideally with scarfs, and those joints are staggered side-to-side, using rough thirds as a measurement.
I have steered clear of actual engineering data for the samples but am hoping to do some comparative bend tests of similar ones in a future video. It would be fun to see!
I guess you could make a dresser out of it - definitely strong enough if you choose heavy enough face sheets (G10) that resist denting. The detailing at the edges will be the most difficult or labor intensive. You could use fiberglass bonding angle or strips let into the core to close out the honeycomb. I've seen plenty of yacht interior parts made from honeycomb (not aluminum usually) and it works great but it's a ton of labor. Do you need a very light-weight dresser? Thin plywood over honeycomb or foam core might be better and easier - and cheaper!
I'm building experimental aircraft . Can i made some plates of honeycomb and panel instead plywood to get some weight reduction and get a bit harder structure? Great video!
A qualified "yes" - because I am not an engineer and have no idea what you're working on. Honeycomb cored composites are very common in aircraft construction and have great mechanical properties for the weight. Bonding pre-cured face sheets to core is a fine method but be sure you do enough testing to know that your bonds are consistent and that you have a good understanding of the real performance of the laminates. You should be able to beat plywood on weight!
Aircraft companies get floor panels made with this method, but the honeycomb is made of nomex, I believe. Very strong and puncture proof (imagine a 200 lb. Lady wearing high heels ). Aluminum is prone to corrosion, so unless it is carefully coated, it can corrode. You should research the floor panels of large airliners.
I don't know. I should have weighed the G10 before and after applying resin. The calculation suggest around 350g per square meter per side of the core... likely too much. 200-300 is probably realistic to get a good bond. A more gel-like resin applied with a short-nap roller would be ideal.
That is a good idea. A toughened gel adhesive would be a good option too. It won’t get wicked up the edges of the honeycomb cells like unthickened resin but the bond might be better overall. Certainly worth a test.
Is there any practical way of using alu honeycomb for parts with curvature? Like say I wanted to make a wing with a honeycomb core bounded by a laminate skin. With something like balsa I could simply CNC a balsa core to the profile I need, but is that possible for aluminium or am I SOL?
Yes, you have a bunch of options. First you can just bend it into gentle curves. Thinner core will work better and aluminum is more likely to crinkle than aramid core. Second there is "over expanded" core which is stretched out like I show around the 5min mark in the video. You buy it this way and it conforms to tight radii but not really super compound surfaces. You can definitely machine it but it is lots of work and hard to fixture. There are special cutters that work well though aramid is easier to deal with than aluminum. You need to still keep the cells normal to the compression loads so sometimes it best to use honeycomb for gentle curved areas and machined foam like Rohacell for corners and high-detail areas. Aluminum core in thicker sections can be custom rolled and expanded to match compound curves but this is a complicated process involving skill and equipment I don't have - so I don't know much about how to do it. For a wing you could probably make it solid honeycomb machined to a profile but the front and back would be hard! You might need to glue the core to one surface and machine it and then apply the other side. This is probably more trouble than its worth - because you can't easily tool both surfaces AND apply good pressure to the core bonding. But it may be worth a try!
You're right about salt water (electrolyte) but the problem is worst when aluminum is in contact with a metal. The G10 is very good for galvanic isolation so it should be ok - but worth thinking about any time you use aluminum core.
Thanks for showing how to shape the Al honeycomb. Learned something new today!
Its neat stuff - between rolling and expanding and different cell types available it can be formed into much more flexible shapes than paper honeycombs. Can be frustrating though!
Great video!
Your videos have taught me a lot about different materials and how to bond them together.
It would be helpful to understand how the composites you build compare to one another in terms of strength. It would be great if you could do some simple strength tests such as point loading the center and/or torsional strength by holding one end stationary while twisting the other end. This doesn't have to be an expensive scientific test, just simply load each sample with a specified amount of weight and measure the flexion or take it to the point of failure.
That's a great idea! I'm working on building "families" of samples that can be compared with a simple bending test. Because I didn't integrate this from the beginning, I'll have to go back and test the samples and make separate videos - which is probably better anyway so they are easier to compare.
The EC! website and videos are a work in progress and it is great to hear what you'd find useful - thanks!
You're one of the few people I've seen handle these super thin G10 sheets, and I need to know if they could withstand constant vibration unsupported. They're a candidate for a large array speaker idea.
Probably but I don’t know for sure. I feel like I have seen G10 in speaker applications but don’t remember where...
for its application, anything can be made from the laminate, sir?
Could this be used to repair a RV roof section? So I have a 3" raised section that is maybe 3' by 5' that the air conditioner sits on. It is sagging and I thought this could be used to replace the wood panel / fiberglass section. This new section would be fiberglassed bonded into the 3" sidewall.
This would probably work, but it'll be an expensive option! You can buy pre-laminated cored panels with foam core. If you want this process, you could use fiberglass sheet instead of G10 over any type of core. Aluminum is very stiff but won't be the most economical or easy to deal with. You can usually get surplus honeycomb core on eBay though if you want to try it.
okay when you said "we are relying on the resin to form little fillets in the honey comb", that made no sense to me, like it would make tiny little cut away's, but then i thought of the auto cad symbol for fillet and instantly knew what you were talking about with that right angle bond lol. wait is fillet vs fill-ey a different word or just different pronunceations? lol
I guess it can be spelled with one or two L's depending on where you're from. I'd say "fill-ay" for a piece of a fish and "fill-it" for an inside radius thing.
@@ExploreComposites :p found a super cheap source of g10 0.5mm, 40 cents a slice as lifepo4 battery insulation sheets. more videos on that please if you get the time =] thanks for your time
This is useful as I never knew you could buy 1/32" G-10 like that. But here is what I am really interested in- How do you edge join honeycomb or foam core panels- one after the other and still look nice yet have a joint be as strong as the panel? Specifically a panel that already has its fiberglass skins on both sides to another one like it. By the way, CarbonCore manufactures a polypropylene honeycomb panel that has a scrim of polyester fabric bonded to it which retains the resin from running into the cells of the honeycomb. (I just subscribed to your channel and hit thumbs up for 60) Perhaps you could do Patreon to support the channel.
Joining cored panels with thin skins is hard. Easiest is a splice block that laps each skin but thats ugly. Best is s full scarf - 30:1 or so - on each skin with laminate fully spanning the joint feathered out into the panel. Not easy with 1/32” skins! It helps to rebate panel edges if you can so you don’t have to grind in scarfs.
Looking into that CarbonCore (Plascore makes similar - probably others) plastic honeycomb. Going to get some for a sample in the next few months. Interested in infusing on it and seeing how it works! Have you had good results with it?
Common practice for hobbyists is to use Cab-O-Sil or equivalent to thicken the epoxy to something between a mayonnaise and a peanut butter consistency. Use that to edge-join the cores using a lap joint or a simple butt joint. The skins are joined, ideally with scarfs, and those joints are staggered side-to-side, using rough thirds as a measurement.
awesome!!! could you make another video with bending properties and stifness tests?
I have steered clear of actual engineering data for the samples but am hoping to do some comparative bend tests of similar ones in a future video. It would be fun to see!
I'm curious about the strength of this. I'm interested in making a dresser for the bedroom with this as the main components instead of wood.
I guess you could make a dresser out of it - definitely strong enough if you choose heavy enough face sheets (G10) that resist denting. The detailing at the edges will be the most difficult or labor intensive. You could use fiberglass bonding angle or strips let into the core to close out the honeycomb.
I've seen plenty of yacht interior parts made from honeycomb (not aluminum usually) and it works great but it's a ton of labor. Do you need a very light-weight dresser?
Thin plywood over honeycomb or foam core might be better and easier - and cheaper!
I'm building experimental aircraft . Can i made some plates of honeycomb and panel instead plywood to get some weight reduction and get a bit harder structure? Great video!
A qualified "yes" - because I am not an engineer and have no idea what you're working on.
Honeycomb cored composites are very common in aircraft construction and have great mechanical properties for the weight. Bonding pre-cured face sheets to core is a fine method but be sure you do enough testing to know that your bonds are consistent and that you have a good understanding of the real performance of the laminates.
You should be able to beat plywood on weight!
@@ExploreComposites Ty. I will do crack test first to compare those two materials. Regards
Aircraft companies get floor panels made with this method, but the honeycomb is made of nomex, I believe. Very strong and puncture proof (imagine a 200 lb. Lady wearing high heels ). Aluminum is prone to corrosion, so unless it is carefully coated, it can corrode. You should research the floor panels of large airliners.
Can you do video on prepreg carbon and aluminium honeycomb
Yes, have a look at laminate sample #14
ruclips.net/video/6xilk4wY-OI/видео.html
Sir, how much epoxy did you use? In grams
I don't know. I should have weighed the G10 before and after applying resin. The calculation suggest around 350g per square meter per side of the core... likely too much. 200-300 is probably realistic to get a good bond. A more gel-like resin applied with a short-nap roller would be ideal.
I was always taught to make a paste with a filler.
That is a good idea. A toughened gel adhesive would be a good option too. It won’t get wicked up the edges of the honeycomb cells like unthickened resin but the bond might be better overall. Certainly worth a test.
Is there any practical way of using alu honeycomb for parts with curvature?
Like say I wanted to make a wing with a honeycomb core bounded by a laminate skin. With something like balsa I could simply CNC a balsa core to the profile I need, but is that possible for aluminium or am I SOL?
Yes, you have a bunch of options. First you can just bend it into gentle curves. Thinner core will work better and aluminum is more likely to crinkle than aramid core.
Second there is "over expanded" core which is stretched out like I show around the 5min mark in the video. You buy it this way and it conforms to tight radii but not really super compound surfaces.
You can definitely machine it but it is lots of work and hard to fixture. There are special cutters that work well though aramid is easier to deal with than aluminum. You need to still keep the cells normal to the compression loads so sometimes it best to use honeycomb for gentle curved areas and machined foam like Rohacell for corners and high-detail areas.
Aluminum core in thicker sections can be custom rolled and expanded to match compound curves but this is a complicated process involving skill and equipment I don't have - so I don't know much about how to do it.
For a wing you could probably make it solid honeycomb machined to a profile but the front and back would be hard! You might need to glue the core to one surface and machine it and then apply the other side. This is probably more trouble than its worth - because you can't easily tool both surfaces AND apply good pressure to the core bonding. But it may be worth a try!
IT DOES NOT ROT BUT ALUMINUM DOAE CORODE SALT WATER LOVES IT YUM YUM
You're right about salt water (electrolyte) but the problem is worst when aluminum is in contact with a metal. The G10 is very good for galvanic isolation so it should be ok - but worth thinking about any time you use aluminum core.