HVAC guy here, a lot of new units come with the coating already on it. When ordering a new HVAC unit they “usually” ask if it’s going in a coastal or corrosive environment. If you regularly clean the unit the coating wears out and you have to re-apply it.
You guys are influencers. Influencers influence, whether they really go out there intending to or not. You guys have influenced me, so boom, you qualify. I’m a lot more thoughtful about the hobby and utilize (and even push!) skepticism and critical thinking significantly more, just from listening to you both over time. However, not all influencers influence for the same purposes. You guys aren’t flashing videos of your acro tank and then cutting to zoom shots of your MP40 and raving about it. You’re also not out there hype hype HYPING 🔥🙌 yourselves to the moon for popularity points. You’re sharing stories, experiences, science, knowledge, doubt, your thought process, fears, wonder, and passion for reefkeeping. I can’t speak for others, but that’s the kind of influence I prefer, in my world.
My first tank was a 14 gallon biocube with live rock. That tank did amazing. After life kicked me in the face that tank suffered and crashed due to being moved into a house with no air conditioning. The second tank was started on the whole dry rock craze. I'll make it short, 10 years of constant restarts due to just fighting algea and other nasties. I restarted in the beginning of the year when I bought a ton of live rock from a local fish store that was closing. The tank is like my 1st. Just awesome. Do my weekly water change and its autopilot.
Another great discussion. I will say that not all of us with Dry Rock had issues. I started my tank 3 years ago with Caribsea Liferock and did not have any of the cyano or dinos issues that many people had. There was an "ugly" phase, but I just did nothing and made sure that No3 and Po4 were never zero, and it eventually went away. I didn't scrub the rocks or anything, just let it ride. This was a brand new tank, and at the time I was a new reefer. I will say that one thing that I did which may differ from some is that when I started the tank was to get a Reef Tune Up pack from IPSF. It had snails, hermit crabs, bristleworms, amphipods, a small amount of sand from their systems, and some sludge from their systems. I put that in the tank after it was "cycled" and ran it with no fish or corals for 3 months. The only living things in the tank were hermit crabs, snails, bristle worms and amphipods. After that I slowly started adding fish and corals.
We have a species of Astralium snail (flattened, irregular shape) that is often sold as Astraea here in Australia. THAT snail I can confirm eats red cyanobacteria. It doesn't just disturb stuff on the sand, it eats it off rocks, corals and hardscape alike. I have video of them muzzling into it and clearly consuming it. Very helpful critter to have.
Great conversation. It is funny how the trends in the hobby change and eventually come full circle. When o started a long time ago we were using live rock kalkwasser and VHO florescent bulbs or metal halides if you had the money. The hobby went through 4 million products and methods only to get back to live rock kalkwasser and trying to get LEDs to replicate actinic VHOs and metal halides. We've had the secret sauce the whole time.
Follow-up question to the dream tank question: What one small addition or change would you make to the other's dream tank that would annoy them the most whenever they look at the tank?
We will talk about it more like Ben said, but breifly, it is a tank or system that uses the automatic water change effluent to fill a system/tank, and instead of using that water again, it overflows to drain. So, the EOL tank/system isn't part of the rest of the system so no disease or infection can get back to the main system, and that is really nice for observation of new animals before they go into the main system, and more.
Didn't say you're not being an influer with enough conviction, gotta say I'm still on the fez about this subconscious marketing strategy in podcast form.
I sell/export live rock (extremely low volume) full disclosure. 500 kg this year total. You mentioned quaried dry rock. Lots of that dry rock is removed from just below top soil level in regions that were mango plantations for a 100 years. If you live in extreme south Florida and want to dig a pool, it's dry ock being dug up. If you're growing mangos for profit or want a sweet sweet lawn, you're fertilizing. Fertilizers are the terragenous chemicals that corals cannot handle in abundance. When I worked for a dry rock vendor that also had an icp machine on site, my coworker kept bringing me stories of his personal tanks failing to thrive for the first year. UnUsual Considering this was a coral expert. I ran a few tests, bubbling CO2 into a glass container with the same seawater for a week; a sample of dry rock, a sample without rock, a sample with oceanic sourced live rock, a sample with no rock or co2, still aged. My goal was to dissolve out minerals from the limestone and suspend in the liquid. Business owner caught wind of the test and stopped it dead in its tracks on the basis the machine would be backed up with samples. BS as we ran batch tests of 30+ nightly, could easily fit in testing on a slow day) Dry rock suppliers knew therewas an issue with pulling blocks of rock out of the ground that required pressure washing muddy soil out of the English muffinesque nooks and crannies. They knew tanks were failing to thrive the entire time and prevented the message from going out. I feel a lot better now getting that beef out in the open
I've always wondered just how much crap is in the buried dry rocks, able to sit there and soak up goodness knows what in terms of nutrients over a good long while with effluent and decaying organics then marinate in the water table. Whereas the actual reef stuff is "fresh" and hasn't been soaked.
Awesome podcast guys! I loved the talks about the thoughts on starting a tank with dry rock. It's not a bad idea if you're experienced, but for new people I think it makes people get out of the hobby on the daily because they are struggling with dead rock.
Regarding buying quality equipment (and I don't correlate that with money: I buy things based on reviews, not on "wow that's so cool because it's expensive"). I completely disagree with the argument "if it's half the price it's ok I can change it when it breaks, rather than cleaning every 6 months". Personally I look at the bigger picture: something that I buy is made using energy, and more energy to bring it to me. Then if I have to throw it away, it ends up in a landfill. I would rather spend 30 minutes deep-cleaning something every 6 months than throwing away a pump every year. That's another aspect to look at when being sensitive to "the environment".
I do think you're influencers but of a slightly different flavor. And sure all influencers proclaim, yeah but we're one of the good ones. We're different. Etc. But where I see you as different is: 1. Champion and SwAq sell everything as you said, but also, they're direct rivals. That helps. 2. Your ads are ads. You're not... sponsored by polyplab and are indirectly shilling by saying reefchilli (for example) is dogshit, while simultaneously and conveniently forgetting to disclose your sponsorship.
I am convinced that Ben hates aquascape because he lost the scaping contest against Joe C. But yeah, people need to stop with that. Plus I find these things ugly. The great thing about the flat pieces of dry rock though: they are a natural way to elevate the live rocks above the sand bed. (I love jawfish and if I used plastic/acrylic to do that, they would gladly expose it)
I am not so into naming names like that lately because it feels like it often sets up and them and us situation, and I would like to have less of that in our world.
I don’t see you guys as influencers, an influencer is doing this to try and get some type of compensation or promote a business. You guys do neither. You’re a couple of goofballs that have been in this hobby for a while. Know some shit and are worth listening to and are entertaining at the same time.
I don’t understand the negative sentiment on growing the hobby - I think it’s because of who is saying it. in that instance you sound like the old farts that I used to meet at Macna that were happy to keep the circle small and I hated that. This podcast probably wouldn’t be popular without the growth of the hobby. More people exposed to the hobby are probably more people who care about conservation and care about saving the oceans. Where else could some dude in Minnesota know about marine science and care about animals in Fiji, Indonesia and Australia. Some of these people also probably benefit from the tourism from reefers wanting to visit - but that’s hard to quantify
The growth I am objecting to is growth for growths sake - painting the hobby as easy and simple, when the reality is that it often isn't either, so people get frustrated and animals die. The bulk of folks already in the hobby don't care about conservation and saving the oceans, nor do most hobbyist go visit wild reefs. Some do, and I think that can make us think that that is representitive of the hobby in general, but it isn't. I often think of it as generating bulk leads for a business vs generating qualified leads.
HVAC guy here, a lot of new units come with the coating already on it. When ordering a new HVAC unit they “usually” ask if it’s going in a coastal or corrosive environment. If you regularly clean the unit the coating wears out and you have to re-apply it.
You guys are influencers.
Influencers influence, whether they really go out there intending to or not. You guys have influenced me, so boom, you qualify. I’m a lot more thoughtful about the hobby and utilize (and even push!) skepticism and critical thinking significantly more, just from listening to you both over time.
However, not all influencers influence for the same purposes. You guys aren’t flashing videos of your acro tank and then cutting to zoom shots of your MP40 and raving about it. You’re also not out there hype hype HYPING 🔥🙌 yourselves to the moon for popularity points. You’re sharing stories, experiences, science, knowledge, doubt, your thought process, fears, wonder, and passion for reefkeeping.
I can’t speak for others, but that’s the kind of influence I prefer, in my world.
Dig
@kalamazoo_reefer channel is a hidden gem! Will save you lots of headaches and money if you check it out. Straight forward/non-bias info.
You should make the budget shaming bit a short. You both did good. All the best to you and yours.
scummy influeres? No. 🤣 Best youtube/podcast on planet earth
My first tank was a 14 gallon biocube with live rock. That tank did amazing. After life kicked me in the face that tank suffered and crashed due to being moved into a house with no air conditioning. The second tank was started on the whole dry rock craze. I'll make it short, 10 years of constant restarts due to just fighting algea and other nasties. I restarted in the beginning of the year when I bought a ton of live rock from a local fish store that was closing. The tank is like my 1st. Just awesome. Do my weekly water change and its autopilot.
Got a notification for the pod so I instantly come here to shit on rich, BEEF 🥩 ily both
Another great discussion. I will say that not all of us with Dry Rock had issues. I started my tank 3 years ago with Caribsea Liferock and did not have any of the cyano or dinos issues that many people had. There was an "ugly" phase, but I just did nothing and made sure that No3 and Po4 were never zero, and it eventually went away. I didn't scrub the rocks or anything, just let it ride.
This was a brand new tank, and at the time I was a new reefer.
I will say that one thing that I did which may differ from some is that when I started the tank was to get a Reef Tune Up pack from IPSF. It had snails, hermit crabs, bristleworms, amphipods, a small amount of sand from their systems, and some sludge from their systems. I put that in the tank after it was "cycled" and ran it with no fish or corals for 3 months. The only living things in the tank were hermit crabs, snails, bristle worms and amphipods. After that I slowly started adding fish and corals.
We have a species of Astralium snail (flattened, irregular shape) that is often sold as Astraea here in Australia. THAT snail I can confirm eats red cyanobacteria. It doesn't just disturb stuff on the sand, it eats it off rocks, corals and hardscape alike. I have video of them muzzling into it and clearly consuming it. Very helpful critter to have.
Great conversation. It is funny how the trends in the hobby change and eventually come full circle. When o started a long time ago we were using live rock kalkwasser and VHO florescent bulbs or metal halides if you had the money. The hobby went through 4 million products and methods only to get back to live rock kalkwasser and trying to get LEDs to replicate actinic VHOs and metal halides. We've had the secret sauce the whole time.
Follow-up question to the dream tank question: What one small addition or change would you make to the other's dream tank that would annoy them the most whenever they look at the tank?
I would put filter socks on Richard’s tank.
Good one
Sun sun pumps for the win
Woukd be good to explain end of line system :)
We will in episode 121
We will talk about it more like Ben said, but breifly, it is a tank or system that uses the automatic water change effluent to fill a system/tank, and instead of using that water again, it overflows to drain. So, the EOL tank/system isn't part of the rest of the system so no disease or infection can get back to the main system, and that is really nice for observation of new animals before they go into the main system, and more.
Didn't say you're not being an influer with enough conviction, gotta say I'm still on the fez about this subconscious marketing strategy in podcast form.
@Ben thank for repping the club with the swag hat🙏
Reef Beef is 🤬, thank you for Episode 118 Rich, Ben, Snowman and Snowflake you are all amazing 🪸🥩❤
I sell/export live rock (extremely low volume) full disclosure. 500 kg this year total.
You mentioned quaried dry rock. Lots of that dry rock is removed from just below top soil level in regions that were mango plantations for a 100 years. If you live in extreme south Florida and want to dig a pool, it's dry ock being dug up. If you're growing mangos for profit or want a sweet sweet lawn, you're fertilizing. Fertilizers are the terragenous chemicals that corals cannot handle in abundance.
When I worked for a dry rock vendor that also had an icp machine on site, my coworker kept bringing me stories of his personal tanks failing to thrive for the first year. UnUsual Considering this was a coral expert. I ran a few tests, bubbling CO2 into a glass container with the same seawater for a week; a sample of dry rock, a sample without rock, a sample with oceanic sourced live rock, a sample with no rock or co2, still aged. My goal was to dissolve out minerals from the limestone and suspend in the liquid. Business owner caught wind of the test and stopped it dead in its tracks on the basis the machine would be backed up with samples. BS as we ran batch tests of 30+ nightly, could easily fit in testing on a slow day)
Dry rock suppliers knew therewas an issue with pulling blocks of rock out of the ground that required pressure washing muddy soil out of the English muffinesque nooks and crannies. They knew tanks were failing to thrive the entire time and prevented the message from going out. I feel a lot better now getting that beef out in the open
I've always wondered just how much crap is in the buried dry rocks, able to sit there and soak up goodness knows what in terms of nutrients over a good long while with effluent and decaying organics then marinate in the water table.
Whereas the actual reef stuff is "fresh" and hasn't been soaked.
Awesome podcast guys! I loved the talks about the thoughts on starting a tank with dry rock. It's not a bad idea if you're experienced, but for new people I think it makes people get out of the hobby on the daily because they are struggling with dead rock.
Testicles in a bowl…😂😂
Needed this today. Thank ya gents!
You are welcome!
#onlyhereforthejingles
Fresh Beef! Thank the makers.
Regarding buying quality equipment (and I don't correlate that with money: I buy things based on reviews, not on "wow that's so cool because it's expensive"). I completely disagree with the argument "if it's half the price it's ok I can change it when it breaks, rather than cleaning every 6 months". Personally I look at the bigger picture: something that I buy is made using energy, and more energy to bring it to me. Then if I have to throw it away, it ends up in a landfill. I would rather spend 30 minutes deep-cleaning something every 6 months than throwing away a pump every year. That's another aspect to look at when being sensitive to "the environment".
New beeeeef
🥩🥩🥩🥩🥩🥩🥩🥩
Is that dante from grandma's boy?
I have a abyzz because if a cheaper one fails 4x more. It can f.u.c.k up your tank 4x more. Its feeling more safe to leave now...
Budget shame deez
HAHHA
I do think you're influencers but of a slightly different flavor.
And sure all influencers proclaim, yeah but we're one of the good ones. We're different. Etc.
But where I see you as different is:
1. Champion and SwAq sell everything as you said, but also, they're direct rivals. That helps.
2. Your ads are ads. You're not... sponsored by polyplab and are indirectly shilling by saying reefchilli (for example) is dogshit, while simultaneously and conveniently forgetting to disclose your sponsorship.
I am convinced that Ben hates aquascape because he lost the scaping contest against Joe C. But yeah, people need to stop with that. Plus I find these things ugly. The great thing about the flat pieces of dry rock though: they are a natural way to elevate the live rocks above the sand bed. (I love jawfish and if I used plastic/acrylic to do that, they would gladly expose it)
LOL
Waiting through an ad from an influencer to watch this episode. 😖
Uhh can we please name who we’re beefing about? Just saying
I think the part you are talking about was BRS videos
I am not so into naming names like that lately because it feels like it often sets up and them and us situation, and I would like to have less of that in our world.
I don’t see you guys as influencers, an influencer is doing this to try and get some type of compensation or promote a business. You guys do neither.
You’re a couple of goofballs that have been in this hobby for a while. Know some shit and are worth listening to and are entertaining at the same time.
I don’t understand the negative sentiment on growing the hobby - I think it’s because of who is saying it. in that instance you sound like the old farts that I used to meet at Macna that were happy to keep the circle small and I hated that. This podcast probably wouldn’t be popular without the growth of the hobby. More people exposed to the hobby are probably more people who care about conservation and care about saving the oceans. Where else could some dude in Minnesota know about marine science and care about animals in Fiji, Indonesia and Australia. Some of these people also probably benefit from the tourism from reefers wanting to visit - but that’s hard to quantify
Have you ever seen this industry from my side of the counter?
The growth I am objecting to is growth for growths sake - painting the hobby as easy and simple, when the reality is that it often isn't either, so people get frustrated and animals die. The bulk of folks already in the hobby don't care about conservation and saving the oceans, nor do most hobbyist go visit wild reefs. Some do, and I think that can make us think that that is representitive of the hobby in general, but it isn't. I often think of it as generating bulk leads for a business vs generating qualified leads.