The thing is, without gluing the biscuits, you don't gain anything BUT alignment. Biscuits are made from "compressed" Beechwood. When glued, the glue causes the biscuit to swell in the slot, and lock themselves in place, adding a LOT of strength as well as alignment. That's why you should always put glue in both sides of the slots, and on the biscuit itself during assembly. The biscuit will wick up the glue and starve that area of the joint if you don't use enough.
Well people have tested the strength of these suckers and they don't actually add strength in either case, like you said they are a thin slice of particle wood which will fall apart the moment it is under stress.
I think you have misunderstood me. Biscuits are NOT particle wood, as you think. They are solid wood, formed and shaped, then placed in a press to compress the fibers... When the glue is on the biscuit, it swells in the slot and locks it in place. It DOES add strength to the joint, and provide alignment. In fact, they add quite a lot of a trend that to the joint if used properly
Thanks chief, that probably was the last push for me over the edge to actually launching my construction of a bunch of workshop drawers. I'll go back and look at your easy slide install vid and be ready. Thanks again, and keep on trucking ! (from France)
Once finished, your new setup will indeed be something to behold. In the end, will there be a cabinet door concealing your blade storage or will it remain open? Perhaps a simple plexiglass shield (backlit with LEDs of course), to prevent all the invasive dust and debris from other projects, settling on your tools? Very helpful, John. Thanks for taking the time!
Matthias has said himself that pocket holes have their place and he's not necessarily against them and like Mike Honaker said, he's cheap. He admits it. This anti pocket hole thing was created by his fans. Not everything needs to be dovetails or mortise and tenon and if you can't build a strong drawer using pocket holes, it's because of user error, not the pocket holes.
This method will not only line up the joints, it will also add strength by locking the parts together. This is especially true for the sides to bottom joint and is faster and more effective than a full dado. Read more about it here: www.ibuildit.ca/Workshop%20Projects/workshop-furniture-projects/miter-saw-station-drawers.html Ways YOU can help support the work I do in making these videos: Plans for sale: www.ibuildit.ca/plans.html Making these videos is expensive and time consuming, and you can help by becoming a supporter of this channel on Patreon. For as little as $1 per month, you'll get early access to regular videos and also exclusive videos made just for my Patreon supporters! www.patreon.com/user?u=865843&ty=h Did you know I have two other RUclips channels? My main channel: ruclips.net/user/jpheisz My home reno channel: ruclips.net/channel/UCMlfKvFrEpzg1PEpTzJDWoA
I've hear some people say biscuits add strength, and others say it doesn't make much if any, difference. I'd love to see a test set up where you compare strengths of joints with biscuits and without :) What about with and without gravy?
Azayles The product of very little practical experience is thinking in absolutes - like the absolute strength of a joint. When you become more experienced, you start thinking in relative terms, like how strong a joint needs to be for a specific application. Biscuits can and do add strength, but the amount is usually not important.
I Build It Good answer! Very true :) It'll also depend on whether you want strength in tension, or shear force. it's _kinda_ like finger joints, where the fingers yield more surface area, so you have more strength from that. The biscuits give a slight increase in glue surface area.
I thought biscuits were engineered to expand when wet as in when they come into contact with glue. By not putting glue on the biscuits, doesn't the joint lose strength?
Thanks for the video. Could you tell me why you don't glue the biscuits in as well? Is it because you mostly use them for alignment and you feel they only provide a negligible amount of extra strength when glued in?
There are theories out there that claimed the strength of the biscuits are negligible. You'll see some stress test where the biscuits break. However these tests are not truly scientific for example if the biscuits themselves are Red oak we would assume they wouldn't break. However I am not saying I have ever seen Red Oak biscuits. They do make a plastic biscuit but I don't think glue sticks to that very well. Many biscuits are compressed particles and when they become moist they are weak and fail for example when you put glue on them that glue itself has moisture which can make biscuits less strong while you align them but will harden once again once dried. Biscuits themselves will swell a little bit when you put glue on them. It makes alignment somewhat cumbersome because if you put the biscuit in and it shifts a little bit as can happen it starts to swell after it shifts making it difficult to put back into the biscuit Groove. My opinion is to find some quality biscuits and pay extra if required to do so And then use glue and glue that biscuit as well. If all you have are cheap biscuits from The cheap hardware store I would not glue them.
I've never used a biscuit jointer but all the times I've seen them used they have used glue on the biscuit. I'm sure you have your reasons, just curious to learn what it is.
What type of camera are you using? I'm impressed at how "lifelike" the quality is and wonder why your videos have a better visual quality than some supposedly high quality websites. Your presentation in the videos has always made me think that you should have your own television show. Thanks for letting us inside of your woodworking world.
i was just wonderung, could you maybe cut thin rabbets (not sure if it is wirtten like that), using the Biscuit tool by sliting it along? Would be really intereting to know!
Curious question, whats the fascination with the square bits/screws? I primarily use torx here in Sweden, only ever used square bits for a solid floor I put in but the bits didn't hold up at all and I went through 5 or 6 bits for a solid fir floor of about 10 sqm?
Probably not the most economical method and the boxes come out quite heavy since you need to use ¾-inch plywood throughout. Will stick to dados and rabbets with thinner sizes and bottoms, which is just as fast, particularly if you are making a whole bunch of boxes.
I appreciate his showing us how to use a newer method. Just because its "always done that way" doesn't mean there isn't a better or different way to do it.
i am sorry but i cannot see those drawers taking any time to fail. structually they are to weak and will fail. as most of your viewers are here to ;learn how to do things i think you owe it to them to show them methods that will work. i am sorry if this criticism is not what you want to hear.
it's funny to me that you are quick to condemn this joinery. I have dressers that are well over 60 years old. I checked their construction and guess what I found? Butt joints with a little glue and a couple of nails. They are as strong as ever and they are half a century old! So glued butt joints reinforced with biscuits and screws should do just fine, they will probably last longer than 60 years. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to condemn. Everybody is a critic!
You know, John, that since you didn't put PVA in the biscuit slots you won't be able to store *both* of your 500 pound anvils in that drawer. What were you thinking? Oh well. Guess you'll only be able to store portable power tools in there. . . or maybe let your pet gorilla sit in there if the hardware is properly sized. All my base cabinet pull-outs and drawers were assembled with butt joints, glue and (heaven forbid) finish nails and they have survived 30 years and a couple kids. Over engineering is a waste of time and gray matter. All the best, --Joe
The thing is, without gluing the biscuits, you don't gain anything BUT alignment.
Biscuits are made from "compressed" Beechwood.
When glued, the glue causes the biscuit to swell in the slot, and lock themselves in place, adding a LOT of strength as well as alignment. That's why you should always put glue in both sides of the slots, and on the biscuit itself during assembly. The biscuit will wick up the glue and starve that area of the joint if you don't use enough.
Well people have tested the strength of these suckers and they don't actually add strength in either case, like you said they are a thin slice of particle wood which will fall apart the moment it is under stress.
I think you have misunderstood me. Biscuits are NOT particle wood, as you think. They are solid wood, formed and shaped, then placed in a press to compress the fibers... When the glue is on the biscuit, it swells in the slot and locks it in place. It DOES add strength to the joint, and provide alignment. In fact, they add quite a lot of a trend that to the joint if used properly
+MsSomeonenew
Show me a test where the biscuit broke.
MsSomeonenew they are NOT particle board. They are SOLID BEECHWOOD that has been compressed. Please show me these so called tests.
tyvek05 please reference the tests you are referring to, but I flatly disagree. When used properly, biscuits DO ADD STRENGTH to the joint.
Thanks chief, that probably was the last push for me over the edge to actually launching my construction of a bunch of workshop drawers. I'll go back and look at your easy slide install vid and be ready.
Thanks again, and keep on trucking ! (from France)
really like that "clamp" setup!!! easy cheap and effective! thanks for the idea!
one step closers to a nice shop
Once finished, your new setup will indeed be something to behold. In the end, will there be a cabinet door concealing your blade storage or will it remain open? Perhaps a simple plexiglass shield (backlit with LEDs of course), to prevent all the invasive dust and debris from other projects, settling on your tools? Very helpful, John. Thanks for taking the time!
Great job John. My biscuits don't seem to fit near as snug even after using Porter Cable joiner and biscuits.
Pocket holes is now my drawer method of choice. Fastest by far and strong. Holes on the outside of the box and you don't see them. Nice
you should watch Matthias wandels video on testing pocket holes, it's extremely amusing
MrTarfu
I have and I use them anyway with 100 lb drawer slides and load em up with heavy tools and they all work great.
yes, he's a tightwad. got it from his dad
Matthias has said himself that pocket holes have their place and he's not necessarily against them and like Mike Honaker said, he's cheap. He admits it. This anti pocket hole thing was created by his fans. Not everything needs to be dovetails or mortise and tenon and if you can't build a strong drawer using pocket holes, it's because of user error, not the pocket holes.
+rochat havnt you seen his video where he states pocket holds are evil and must die lol.
This method will not only line up the joints, it will also add strength by locking the parts together. This is especially true for the sides to bottom joint and is faster and more effective than a full dado.
Read more about it here:
www.ibuildit.ca/Workshop%20Projects/workshop-furniture-projects/miter-saw-station-drawers.html
Ways YOU can help support the work I do in making these videos:
Plans for sale: www.ibuildit.ca/plans.html
Making these videos is expensive and time consuming, and you can help by becoming a supporter of this channel on Patreon. For as little as $1 per month, you'll get early access to regular videos and also exclusive videos made just for my Patreon supporters!
www.patreon.com/user?u=865843&ty=h
Did you know I have two other RUclips channels?
My main channel: ruclips.net/user/jpheisz
My home reno channel: ruclips.net/channel/UCMlfKvFrEpzg1PEpTzJDWoA
I've hear some people say biscuits add strength, and others say it doesn't make much if any, difference. I'd love to see a test set up where you compare strengths of joints with biscuits and without :)
What about with and without gravy?
Azayles
The product of very little practical experience is thinking in absolutes - like the absolute strength of a joint. When you become more experienced, you start thinking in relative terms, like how strong a joint needs to be for a specific application.
Biscuits can and do add strength, but the amount is usually not important.
I Build It Good answer! Very true :)
It'll also depend on whether you want strength in tension, or shear force. it's _kinda_ like finger joints, where the fingers yield more surface area, so you have more strength from that. The biscuits give a slight increase in glue surface area.
I agree with that statement.
I thought biscuits were engineered to expand when wet as in when they come into contact with glue. By not putting glue on the biscuits, doesn't the joint lose strength?
Thanks for the video. Could you tell me why you don't glue the biscuits in as well? Is it because you mostly use them for alignment and you feel they only provide a negligible amount of extra strength when glued in?
There are theories out there that claimed the strength of the biscuits are negligible. You'll see some stress test where the biscuits break. However these tests are not truly scientific for example if the biscuits themselves are Red oak we would assume they wouldn't break. However I am not saying I have ever seen Red Oak biscuits. They do make a plastic biscuit but I don't think glue sticks to that very well. Many biscuits are compressed particles and when they become moist they are weak and fail for example when you put glue on them that glue itself has moisture which can make biscuits less strong while you align them but will harden once again once dried. Biscuits themselves will swell a little bit when you put glue on them. It makes alignment somewhat cumbersome because if you put the biscuit in and it shifts a little bit as can happen it starts to swell after it shifts making it difficult to put back into the biscuit Groove. My opinion is to find some quality biscuits and pay extra if required to do so And then use glue and glue that biscuit as well. If all you have are cheap biscuits from The cheap hardware store I would not glue them.
Brilliant Jointer for the drawers ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ loved the wooden bar clamps, is there a video how to make these please? 👍👍
Awesome tip. Good Idea for my future projects
I've never used a biscuit jointer but all the times I've seen them used they have used glue on the biscuit. I'm sure you have your reasons, just curious to learn what it is.
i love biscuits!! im making a biscuit table! gonna be a video!
John, I did enjoy it.. with some Wheatabix!
Do you have a video of you making the home made clamps . Thanks
Good job.
What type of camera are you using? I'm impressed at how "lifelike" the quality is and wonder why your videos have a better visual quality than some supposedly high quality websites. Your presentation in the videos has always made me think that you should have your own television show. Thanks for letting us inside of your woodworking world.
96geometro a "video" camera
Biscuits without glue? Guess John does not dunk his in tea....
i was just wonderung, could you maybe cut thin rabbets (not sure if it is wirtten like that), using the Biscuit tool by sliting it along? Would be really intereting to know!
i tried twice, ended up not pretty or convienient, just use a router biscuit cutter
Curious question, whats the fascination with the square bits/screws?
I primarily use torx here in Sweden, only ever used square bits for a solid floor I put in but the bits didn't hold up at all and I went through 5 or 6 bits for a solid fir floor of about 10 sqm?
Moxon vise project John?
looks good.
Probably not the most economical method and the boxes come out quite heavy since you need to use ¾-inch plywood throughout. Will stick to dados and rabbets with thinner sizes and bottoms, which is just as fast, particularly if you are making a whole bunch of boxes.
This guy gives no shits what you think. He will create and assemble all of his furniture with 3/4 plywood.
Hello, can you tell me how that tool is called to assemblies, and how much does it cost?
good thinking, ill be keeping this in mind. Now i must eat a sandwich :D
Decent Norm brownie points here
No squaring necessary?
why do you go to all the trouble to put biscuits in, wouldn't the glue screws hold jut as strong
He said because biscuits help keep everything lined up.
If you have a poor glue joint the actual biscuit will act as a joint and help to support the glue.
saludos amigo saves ke me gusta de ese proyecto el esmeril yla guia ke usa como se hace
Great idea but you have to use 3/4" ply for the bottom. I normally use 1/4" so although I own a biscuit cutter I would not be able to use this method.
Why did you not bother to glue the biscuit holes? Between the swelling of the biscuits and much more glue surface that would add even more strength.
Expected a drawer being assembled with cookies, was disappointed.
haha.. LOL
I miss the mustard bottle :(.
BISXZCUTS!!!
Don't you have a vice?
that is a vice :)
there is a reason that cabinet makers use traditional joinery techniques.. they don't fall apart over time.
Are you developing some sort of problem? I think this is the second snide comment you've made recently.
I appreciate his showing us how to use a newer method. Just because its "always done that way" doesn't mean there isn't a better or different way to do it.
i am sorry but i cannot see those drawers taking any time to fail. structually they are to weak and will fail. as most of your viewers are here to ;learn how to do things i think you owe it to them to show them methods that will work. i am sorry if this criticism is not what you want to hear.
yes it is a new method. but it will fail very quickly as it is structually unsound.
it's funny to me that you are quick to condemn this joinery. I have dressers that are well over 60 years old. I checked their construction and guess what I found? Butt joints with a little glue and a couple of nails. They are as strong as ever and they are half a century old! So glued butt joints reinforced with biscuits and screws should do just fine, they will probably last longer than 60 years. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to condemn.
Everybody is a critic!
You need a little intro like : 'hi you're watching I Build it'.... Or something else!...
No I don't.
+I Build It ok ;)
Lol savage
SAVAGE
you should know that jedi mind tricks do not work on John..... and, you did forget to wave you hand and fingers
dados, rabbits, bisquits.. wtf is shit? xD
You know, John, that since you didn't put PVA in the biscuit slots you won't be able to store *both* of your 500 pound anvils in that drawer. What were you thinking?
Oh well. Guess you'll only be able to store portable power tools in there. . . or maybe let your pet gorilla sit in there if the hardware is properly sized. All my base cabinet pull-outs and drawers were assembled with butt joints, glue and (heaven forbid) finish nails and they have survived 30 years and a couple kids. Over engineering is a waste of time and gray matter.
All the best,
--Joe
Came for cookies, got disappointment