Engaging conversation, thank you both. I haven't read Dr. Hoodbhoy's book yet, but I will someday soon and hope to offer a more nuanced critique but for now I can only comment on what I heard in this conversation. I hope Dr. Hoodbhoy or Mr. Khan or both get to read this...maybe an intern will spot this amongst the chest-thumping vulgarity and rubble of the trolls. I'll try to be as precise as possible. 1. The 3 key problems are prescient and the gentlemen covered it with pith. However, I personally think they missed an important problem or two. Although it may seem intangible, it is critical that Pakistanis -- the elites first -- resolve the identity crisis. And then the intellectual crisis: the inability of most elites, even intellectuals, to be honest...brutally honest...with themselves. I applaud Dr. Hoodbhoy for his honesty, integrity, and commitment to lay it out. I also think he's extraordinarily more prescient and perceptive than the riff raff of the (many) shallow shills that the leading Pakistani newspapers publish. I can't blame him for getting pedestrian or being ill-informed about India sometimes. I hope he spends sometime - like a few years of sabbatical - to see and feel the bones of that society. Not that it is valhalla/swarg/jannat) but it would help him being less deterministic and overcoming the subconscious bias. He does get into false equivalencies and sometimes says things clouded by illogic or wrong info and this is beneath him I feel. But, of course, he's not a social scientist and I cannot find fault with him for what to me might emotionally feel as slights. ("I have Indian intellectuals as friends" does not count!) Importantly, it is clear his intent is good, always! 2.They covered nukes well. What I wondered about was why either of the gentlemen did not link the dumb decision that led to the misguided Kargil misadventure and the intellect behind it to rationalize a nuke misadventure. Doesn't the same intellectual or emotional DNA inform the current military mindset and weltanschauung? Or, have they learnt something? It's not evident though from the hollow, unprofessional messaging and the encore about Pakistan's geopolitical fulcrum. 3. Another organic thing they did not at all cover - whether it's the mullahs or military or a whole populace fed on it - is the visceral hate of the Hindu and the Indian. It IS organic. It is the very foundation of Pakistani identity. Yes, Dr. Hoodbhoy did mention that it's changing. Perhaps so. I see a little it in the substantive monologues or interviews of some public intellectuals. (It is particularly encouraging when one listens to the younger ones like Muzzamil Shah, Shehzad Ghias, Taimur Rahman, etc.) I see a bit of it in the street interviews of common folks recorded by some sappy, flaky vloggers. This latter demographic is very important but I don't know if it can be projected across the country. But all of this is still a minority. It will take at last a generation --if not two-- to weed out the cancer of hate wired into most minds. As also to build foundational, critical thinking at all levels of Pakistani society. 4. Taking cue from that point, and going onto the topic of what lies ahead, I wonder if Dr Hoodbhoy may have missed a couple more. 4 (a) On the positive side, and adjunct to one of the points he makes, people wake up and the extraordinary Pakistani talent that is overseas return in droves like they did in Taiwan, etc. and contribute directly in rewiring the polity, crafting a new and progressive/inclusive constitution, designing a novel/tailored pedagogical philosophy (followed by curriculums and structures), strategizing on a foreign policy that first aims to make Pakistan just a normal country (both in its messaging as well as relations). 4(b). This is the 'negative" or more dangerous thing I thought he missed out totally and anyone thinking strategically or looking at Pakistan from 30,000 feet must consider this likely scenario: What is the assurance that Pakistan would not implode? At best, Punjab holds on to Sindh in a federation and they continue with the name but that is an unlikely path if it comes to the implosion point. I see this possibility in 10-20 years if it DOES NOT get its act together within the next 10 years and get out of the organic problems it has created for itself. 5. Another issue that I'd have loved to see covered was the mass emigration of Pakistani men (of all calibre and capacity) to other countries. How is that going to play out. What are the current effects of this huge wave of emigration on Pakistan's society and economy as well as those new societies that receive them? We will start to see some tectonic effects of this - globally - 10 years from now. Mark my words. I had several other things on my mind while listening that just escape me right now. But I will post them here if I can recollect.
"Population menace in Pakistan" : with over 43000 people per sq. Km , Karachi is already one of high population density city in Pakistan; far above than Delhi and Mumbai. As this going double in next 25 years , and land area going to reduce, the scenario will be so so worst.
I am South America, far away from the Indian subcontinent and have never been there. Could Prof Hoodbhoy's pragmatism and intelligence be allowed to impact the dulness north of Sindh?
"...India will conquer Pakistan" : Never a possibility. Don't mistake that because of Nuclear risk. But because of the 240 Mn 'assets' coming along. Even if Pakistan is full of Gold and Oil. Secondly, if Pakistan go from bad to worst , India has to spend more on boarder security. And if Pakistan go from bad to good , then Pakistan has to spend more on its boarder security, albeit it's northern side.
Bharat and Pakistan have a common origin and divergent trajectory, the identify of Pakistanis is converted Hindus and future of Pakistan is bleak due to religious bigotry.
This was very good and sensible. Pakistan should stop talking about J and K. INDIA IS NOT INTERESTED I AM SURE INDIA NOT INTERESTED IN OTHER PARTS. THERE COULD BE GENUINE PEACE. AOIT OTHER PSRTS OF KASHMIR
Why? Is he an intellectual? Just because you geta thrill from him pumping India? Did you listen to the conversation here and did you understand it? Here is the problem with trolls like you. You do more damage to India and yourselves with your trigger-happy, brain-dead emotional reactions. Think a bit and read!
Engaging conversation, thank you both. I haven't read Dr. Hoodbhoy's book yet, but I will someday soon and hope to offer a more nuanced critique but for now I can only comment on what I heard in this conversation. I hope Dr. Hoodbhoy or Mr. Khan or both get to read this...maybe an intern will spot this amongst the chest-thumping vulgarity and rubble of the trolls. I'll try to be as precise as possible.
1. The 3 key problems are prescient and the gentlemen covered it with pith. However, I personally think they missed an important problem or two. Although it may seem intangible, it is critical that Pakistanis -- the elites first -- resolve the identity crisis. And then the intellectual crisis: the inability of most elites, even intellectuals, to be honest...brutally honest...with themselves. I applaud Dr. Hoodbhoy for his honesty, integrity, and commitment to lay it out. I also think he's extraordinarily more prescient and perceptive than the riff raff of the (many) shallow shills that the leading Pakistani newspapers publish. I can't blame him for getting pedestrian or being ill-informed about India sometimes. I hope he spends sometime - like a few years of sabbatical - to see and feel the bones of that society. Not that it is valhalla/swarg/jannat) but it would help him being less deterministic and overcoming the subconscious bias. He does get into false equivalencies and sometimes says things clouded by illogic or wrong info and this is beneath him I feel. But, of course, he's not a social scientist and I cannot find fault with him for what to me might emotionally feel as slights. ("I have Indian intellectuals as friends" does not count!) Importantly, it is clear his intent is good, always!
2.They covered nukes well. What I wondered about was why either of the gentlemen did not link the dumb decision that led to the misguided Kargil misadventure and the intellect behind it to rationalize a nuke misadventure. Doesn't the same intellectual or emotional DNA inform the current military mindset and weltanschauung? Or, have they learnt something? It's not evident though from the hollow, unprofessional messaging and the encore about Pakistan's geopolitical fulcrum.
3. Another organic thing they did not at all cover - whether it's the mullahs or military or a whole populace fed on it - is the visceral hate of the Hindu and the Indian. It IS organic. It is the very foundation of Pakistani identity. Yes, Dr. Hoodbhoy did mention that it's changing. Perhaps so. I see a little it in the substantive monologues or interviews of some public intellectuals. (It is particularly encouraging when one listens to the younger ones like Muzzamil Shah, Shehzad Ghias, Taimur Rahman, etc.) I see a bit of it in the street interviews of common folks recorded by some sappy, flaky vloggers. This latter demographic is very important but I don't know if it can be projected across the country. But all of this is still a minority. It will take at last a generation --if not two-- to weed out the cancer of hate wired into most minds. As also to build foundational, critical thinking at all levels of Pakistani society.
4. Taking cue from that point, and going onto the topic of what lies ahead, I wonder if Dr Hoodbhoy may have missed a couple more. 4 (a) On the positive side, and adjunct to one of the points he makes, people wake up and the extraordinary Pakistani talent that is overseas return in droves like they did in Taiwan, etc. and contribute directly in rewiring the polity, crafting a new and progressive/inclusive constitution, designing a novel/tailored pedagogical philosophy (followed by curriculums and structures), strategizing on a foreign policy that first aims to make Pakistan just a normal country (both in its messaging as well as relations). 4(b). This is the 'negative" or more dangerous thing I thought he missed out totally and anyone thinking strategically or looking at Pakistan from 30,000 feet must consider this likely scenario: What is the assurance that Pakistan would not implode? At best, Punjab holds on to Sindh in a federation and they continue with the name but that is an unlikely path if it comes to the implosion point. I see this possibility in 10-20 years if it DOES NOT get its act together within the next 10 years and get out of the organic problems it has created for itself.
5. Another issue that I'd have loved to see covered was the mass emigration of Pakistani men (of all calibre and capacity) to other countries. How is that going to play out. What are the current effects of this huge wave of emigration on Pakistan's society and economy as well as those new societies that receive them? We will start to see some tectonic effects of this - globally - 10 years from now. Mark my words.
I had several other things on my mind while listening that just escape me right now. But I will post them here if I can recollect.
I recently finished all the episodes, was waiting impatiently for this. Thanks to the entire Team. Love you Pakistan 🇵🇰 🇮🇳
Sir you are an inspiration for everyone. How to get your next book?
"Population menace in Pakistan" : with over 43000 people per sq. Km , Karachi is already one of high population density city in Pakistan; far above than Delhi and Mumbai. As this going double in next 25 years , and land area going to reduce, the scenario will be so so worst.
🙏 looking forward to your valueable narratives with analysis.
I am South America, far away from the Indian subcontinent and have never been there.
Could Prof Hoodbhoy's pragmatism and intelligence be allowed to impact the dulness north of Sindh?
Recall from a Zia Mohyuddin.
"Aam khayal hai ke bachchey buzurgoan ki dua'on se paida hotain hain."
"...India will conquer Pakistan" : Never a possibility. Don't mistake that because of Nuclear risk. But because of the 240 Mn 'assets' coming along. Even if Pakistan is full of Gold and Oil.
Secondly, if Pakistan go from bad to worst , India has to spend more on boarder security. And if Pakistan go from bad to good , then Pakistan has to spend more on its boarder security, albeit it's northern side.
Collective Dissociative Identity Disorder - Intergenerational
❤
Bharat and Pakistan have a common origin and divergent trajectory, the identify of Pakistanis is converted Hindus and future of Pakistan is bleak due to religious bigotry.
After Balakovo where is Azar Masood?
This was very good and sensible. Pakistan should stop talking about J and K. INDIA IS NOT INTERESTED I AM SURE INDIA NOT INTERESTED IN OTHER PARTS. THERE COULD BE GENUINE PEACE. AOIT OTHER PSRTS OF KASHMIR
Nuclear weapons no need, for Pakistan their politician n population is more dangerous than nuclear weapons of India, n I forgot to consider mullah
I want you to bring pakistani citizen divik kumar in your show the black hole
Why? Is he an intellectual? Just because you geta thrill from him pumping India? Did you listen to the conversation here and did you understand it? Here is the problem with trolls like you. You do more damage to India and yourselves with your trigger-happy, brain-dead emotional reactions. Think a bit and read!