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Z8 Vs D850 | Detailed First Look At How These Two Cameras Compare | Matt Irwin
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- Опубликовано: 13 авг 2024
- #z8 #d850 #nikon
Some are calling this the new D850 moment, myself included. I go through a long look at how these two epic allrounders compare. It is not an exhaustive look, but covers a lot of ground. How do you think they compare?
Other notable things worth mentioning are the OVF and EVF experience are very different, with pros and cons for both, these days I prefer an EVF. Please let me know if there is anything else I should add to the full look at Z8 vs D850.
00:00 Intro
00:15 Z8 Vs D850
00:40 Size difference
02:00 Both 45.7 MP but …?
02:30 What is the difference between sensor on D850 and Z8
02:50 Sensor Shield
03:00 Stacked BSI vs BSI
03:45 In-depth look at sensors, D850, Z 9 / Z 8 and Z 7
04:00 How do these sensors perform?
04:45 How does IBIS affect this equation?
05:25 What about HDR or bracketing?
06:33 Could a high speed mirrorless do two frame HDR’ invisibly’?
07:05 DXO Charts Colour Sensitivity
07:20 Tonal Range
07:30 Dynamic Range
07:50 SNR 18%
08:18 ISO Sensitivity
08:47 Who are Nikons competitors?
09:30 Sony A1 and Z9 / Z8 are rated the same with DXO
09:45 Canon R5 comes in at 95 with DXO vs 98 for Z9 / Z8 and A1
10:30 Stacked sensors will perform better
11:05 Why does Nikon keep making 45.7MP cameras?
11:30 45.7 MP seems to be an all-rounder resolution.
12:25 8K video works well at this size
13:10 Diffraction is another reason why 45.7MP makes sense
13:40 A close look at diffraction in Capture One with the Sony A7 R V
14:50 60.2 MP vs 45.7 does not look that different
15:40 Is there an advantage to those extra MP’s?
16:00 What are these strange rings in the Sony Image?
18:15 Does the extra MP matter?
19:00 Do we want higher MP file sizes?
20:09 Why is this a D850 moment?
21:22 45.7MP is THE SWEET SPOT !!!
22:18 All the different AF detection modes
22:50 Much faster frame rates
23:33 Pre-Capture
24:00 Z 8 video spec much higher than D850
24:20 Card slot situation?
24:50 IBIS
26:00 I/O
26:30 Grip comfort and button layout
27:40 Yes they have different screen types
28:00 The gap between these cameras will expand
28:40 THIS IS A D850 moment +++ !!
29:45 Your turn to comment
30:07 F glass in most cases works even better on Z 8
Some are calling this the new D850 moment, myself included. I go through a long look at how these two epic allrounders compare. It is not an exhaustive look, but covers a lot of ground. How do you think they compare?
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I covered a lot but not it all. For example battery life will be better on the D850. And the mirrorless and shutterless Z8, can be 100% silent and has ZERO vibration. Please let me know if I missed anything else and I will add it here
Flash compatibility? (I know, not a popular topic). I heard Nikon entered an agreement with Profoto. I hope secondary USB-C can be used for SSD recording, or can it? Thanks Matt!
@@jorsetti Dovetailing on Jim's question here: How are the writing speeds for the higher rez video sets when recording to SSD via USB-C ? Thanks Matt.
SSD recording is not an option now. Who knows about the future. I am testing now internal record times, with external power, and I am impressed :) Vid coming soon :)
@@MattIrwinPhotography I'll look forward to the internal record test video. The youtuber with fuzzy hair suggested there was a heating issue when recording higher rez options to internals. I trust your results 100% ;)
If we were out on a shoot with no way to recharge batteries after your batteries ran out, I would pick up my d850 and continue to shoot for several days with only one spare battery. That's where the d850 becomes the superior camera.
I’ve been using a D850 for ages and as good as the Z8 is, as a landscape photographer it offers virtually nothing in terms of advancements for me. The D850 is still my ultimate tool of choice
Landscape shot differences: access to superior Z lenses, warm mode on lcd monitor for night shooting, more adapters such as a P645 to Z with 15mm shift, pre-release capture if you are trying to get something like a bird begin flight in the shot, auto HDR metering 2-capture will calculate the two exposures needed to get the full scene contrast, a much wider articulation for lcd display with rotating data, starlight exposure mode for -8.5EV focusing…
@@AffinityPhoto …and?
@@AffinityPhoto but there's nothing else than Z lenses....
@@fatdoi003 what do you mean. All other lenses except for RF (if you want infinity focus) can mount to Z. Nikon has the shortest flange distance of all.
@@fatdoi003 They're not superior lenses your bought by the marketing and paid youtubers☝☝
I lusted after the D850 for a number of years, as I used my D610. Oddly enough, as I began to save money for the D850, things started changing, Nikon moved to mirrorless, though I wasn't convinced mirrorless cameras were the future. Long story short, I almost bought a Z9, decided to wait and see what the Z8 would look like, and now I've ordered the Z8. I feel quite confident than my patience will have paid off in a few more weeks.
You can probably get a D850 for less than half of the price of a z8 now and it’s still a great camera (nothing beats it in IQ). If you don’t care about video it’ll still run laps around most camera that have been released since (the video isn’t even that bad either but definitely not top of class).
@@JohnLemieux I have already ordered my Z8; won't be looking back. This will likely be my last camera (I'm 74), so I wanted the newest tech I could afford.
That's a giant leap and I hope you enjoy it, Z lenses are something else, even if sensor wise there's not much difference.
I too wanted a D850 but couldn't afford it, went with D750 and D780, then Z5 to focus on the expensive lenses but now here we are, also waiting for my Z8.
same i have always been wanting one even since the D800/D810/D850 wile i use my D3200 . . but as soon as i was able to afford something better i got me a Z6 about 2 years ago and have been using alot . and still super happy with it and that Z8 is looking perty nice right now
I'm not going to get into which camera is for who (not knowing what they shoot, how they shoot, what their specific needs are, etc.). That said, I will say this. The D850 was my first camera for all the wrong reasons (I actually bought a D700 while waiting for it - but I don't count that). I pre-ordered the D850 because I thought the fact that it was a "hybrid" camera (Sports/action/wildlife/landscape/portraits) was cool - and it did 4K video. Like I said, all the wrong reasons. Now, I've shot the heck out of that camera and taken home praise from a number of pros (one who asked me if I would like to work for him). I knew what I wanted in a mirrorless camera from Nikon and waited - or I was going to jump to Sony or Canon. The Z9 specs ticked off so many boxes of what I was looking for that I preordered it the day it was announced and received it in early January 2022. With the last firmware update 3.1, it is almost everything I need. Did I want it lighter - of course. A bit smaller - absolutely for my hands. That said, the other stuff it's missing is really nit picking except for a bit stickier AF in 3D and Wide Areas with subject detection enabled. I want it to give me zebras in stills like it does in video, battery percentage instead of bars, but I digress. All this to say, My American Morning, I talk to and head a group for D850 shooters. I talk to people who just purchased that camera all the time. I loved it - and still do - love the D700 as well. That said, for what I do, and shoot, the Z9/Z8 are light-years ahead of the D850. Too many reasons to list, so I'll pick the main ones: 1. Nearly 100 percent AF Point sensor coverage - i.e. no more focus and recompose - making BBAF almost a thing of the past. 2. AF ACCURACY and SPEED - Not only is the camera better - in most cases - of finding focus - it does so humans > animals with eye detection faster than I could - but the lenses focus faster making both usefulness or using the legacy lenses such as the 105mm f/1.4 and 200mm f/2 even better. 3. No black out EVF - in DSLR days if you "saw the shot" you missed it. Now, that's not true. 4. Silent shooting - Dance/Golf/Weddings/Wildlife /Religious service - now you can be respectful and shoot (and no shutter slap and IBIS giving you more stability). 5. Programmable button flexibility - set the camera up how you use it. 6. Stacked sensor - fast readout, deeper buffer, with HE* - almost unreachable end if you need that with faster CF Express B cards. 7. Multidirectional Tilt screen - got a shot holding the camera just above water level with 200mm f/2 of wildlife with subject detection animal eye detect and the flip out screen that I would never have been able to obtain unless I was in the water. 8. Frame rate: At 20 fps for RAW and 30, 60, or 120 fps with jpeg, you will capture images that would be much more difficult at 9 fps. With precapture, even more. Example: I was shooting with buddies (Sony A1, Canon R3) and we saw a night heron getting scolded by a Royal Tern because the Night Heron was getting too close it the Tern's nest. Long story short: I used precapture to focus on the night heron and every time I saw the tern enter the frame, took the photos at 120 fps. Turns out: Every time the tern approached, it was not only squawking at the night heron, it was laying waste on it as well. Every approach, the same thing. 10 approaches captured. Only on photo examination did we see that - and only 12 photos of the 120 fps would show the decent of the bird till it was over the heron. That's 0.1 seconds it was on the decent. Human reaction time to something visual is 0.4s. Yes, as you would guess from that, my friends with the Sony a1 and Canon R3 only got tail feathers in their shots. I left this example for last, because there aren't many times I'll be using it, but a birds landing on a nest (swallows) and leaving - so much easy to capture the right moment - and you see it. The last thing I'll leave you with is that proper exposure for your photo, whatever that means, is now available in your EVF - WYSIWYG. Much less reason for incorrect exposures. If you need one more reason, you now can see (in the EVF) DOF down to f/5.6 on faster lenses and the lowest default aperture on slower lenses. Use "Preview" to a function button - like DSLRs and you can see it past f/5.6. I hear some, like one of the comments below, rave about the D850 - and with good reason - and how they will never change. Some never left vinyl for recordings, or tape, or 8 track. I get it. Some will always BBAF. Neither wrong, nor without reason. The latest generation of cameras including the Nikon Z8/Z9, Sonys, and Canons offerings in the mirrorless world are a significant advance into the future. It's great to be a photographer now. Embrace it.
I thought you were supposed to convince me to get a Z8. Now I feel like I should get a used D850 and save $2300.
The Z8 is amazing, no question. Nobody really needs more camera than that! But... (and this is a personal "but") the D850 has much better battery life (something you will appreciate when traveling), optical viewfinders are easy on the eyes and I am enjoying them much more than EVF's (looked through a Z9 and didn't like it, but I've become picky) and lastly I am really loving the color output of the D850. All mirrorless Z cameras I have tried had the same brownish green color cast that I just can't unsee anymore (I'm too stupid to fix it in post :)). But that is personal preference of course. Overall there is no denying that the Z8 is an amazing upgrade but for me the Z8 unfortunately comes with some downgrades that take away some of the magic I experience with the D850. Thanks for the video!
Согласен полностью . И мне также нравится именно D850.
Tried the Z9 today, its insanely fast ! The 17-28mm F2.8 is incredible too…the burst mode is like filming a 16mm or 35mm movie not shooting photos… Even if I will buy a Z8 one day or another I’ll wait 2 more years I guess…Just got a D850 for half its price and a D4S for 650$ with 2 128GB memory cards and 4 batteries…
Before I comment, I'll make it clear, I'm an amateur shooter and shoot primarily for me. Several pros who review my images like what they see. That said, I shoot mainly sports/wildlife/action/dance and I knew, when I shot the D850/D500 what I wanted out of mirrorless when Nikon announced the Z9, so I preordered it. There are half a dozen or so things I would have personally changed on the Z9, but aside from weight/size - most of them are small. Moving from DSLR to Mirrorless with Nikon will take some time to learn how the AF area modes work the best. Video is shockingly usable and excellent. I have barely touched my D850/D500 since moving to the Z9 over a year ago - and when I do - I am frequently frustrated by the lack of focus points available etc. You can get the job done, it just takes a bit more effort and time. With over double the FPS, it is easier to capture a unique particular moment. I can understand the waiting - I did it for many years even though I knew I was ultimately headed to mirrorless. I waiting for tracking to get better. Battery life to get better. Frame rates to improve. No blackout EVFs that was easy to see. On and On. Prices on CF Express B cards to get cheaper. So, the future is now upon us. If you need that technology for what you photograph, it has arrived. You can feel confident now with Nikon's expanding lens lineup and old usable glass (still not motor driven lenses) - that you will be excited to shoot (just like you experienced when you picked up the Z9. Embrace the future!
I own the D850. For me, this video confirms that it's probably not worth upgrading in my case. Image quality and dynamic range are basically identical. 20fps would be nice, but I shoot action and birds in flight too rarely to justify the $4,000 upgrade cost. The improved AF would also be great, but let's be honest: the D850 has an amazing AF system. I think I'd be dropping $4k for the fun of having the latest gear, but my images wouldn't be much improved.
For sure Dakota, there is things like no vibration and silence which are also great for wildlife. But the D850 will continue to rock for years to come :)
Hi mate, yes l agree with you! Plus having the latest gear, won’t make you a better photographer! A lot off people need to learn how to use the gear they have now!
I’ve been using the D800 since it first came out, but the biggest drawback to going into the new Z series is none of my glass works
without an adapter. May eventually need to update, but been happy with the D800, although it would be a good backup if there were an adapter to use Z lenses with the D800. Would like to get the 24-120mm, but will miss my 17-35 f/2.8. I only use 3 lenses now 17-35, 50 and 70-300mm. If I upgraded, it would eventually cost a fortune to get to the same coverage of 17-300mm. If the D800 craps out, I’ll have no choice, but the D850 wouldn’t be a bad option to carry me through to the end…
adapter is really cheap and from the reviews there is absolutely no effect on performance or image quality. Like its not there.
We will see used D850's drop towards $1500 when the Z8ters start dumping old gear. MPB already has over fifty D850s listed starting at $2000. The D850 will be the best value for many many years to a still shooter who doesn't follow fast action. The CMOS sensor has peaked.
Keep buying D800's it's still a great camera at a crazy low price. Just hunt out later production ones and good copies.
D800 is a workhorse camera, no need to spend a ton of money to get the next best thing. IQ isn't any better with these new cameras.
My wife and I thank you for the first real informative comparison between the Nikon D850 v Z8, Yes we do both have the D850, we are looking a the Z8, but we will keep one D850 as you have said it is best DSLR ever built.
Pleasure and fantastic idea. I will certainly keep one of mine too. 😀📷
it is...
Awesome video, Matt. I’ve had a Z9 for well over a year. Even though I knew the Z8 was coming out I still picked up another Z9 a month ago (it’s such an amazing camera in every way). There’s nothing like having two camera set up identically with different focal lengths when shooting wildlife. I also had a Z7 II and sold that. Bottom line… I pre-order the Z8 4 minutes after launch. I plan on using it for the long hikes to my favorite wildlife and landscape location, or when I don’t want to draw a lot of attention to my gear.
Nice Matt, thanks! (One minor correction: at 17’40 you said that the release modes on the D850 left dial were now on the iMenu etc. Yes, but more usefully they are available using the Z8’s “release selector” button (top left) and moving the main dial plus the front dial for sub selections...)
Those rings are a critical focus diffraction pattern, known an “Airy disk” first fully described by 19th century Astronomer Royal Sir George Biddell Airy. A light wavelength feature from the individual pixel size of the sensor. Perhaps sticking with 45.7m stacked sensor was a good idea after all!
Thanks Matt - an EXCELLENT video (as always). Very nice look at the two cameras and how they stack up in real world terms.
Your section on diffraction was illuminating. When I had predicted a higher MP camera for the Z8 some 5 month + ago this was not information that I was privy to at that time. My other predictions were all correct with the MP count being the sole exception. I subsequently learned from @FramesTM (who researched this) that diffraction at f/8 starts to become discernible at MP counts of 50+ - perhaps this is why both Canon and Nikon opted to stay just below that and Sony (with the A1) kept it right at that point. Your demonstration of the Z7 45.7MP sensor against the A7RV's 61MP sensor does seem to bear this out as the Sony files are clearly being negatively impacted by diffraction as compared to the Nikon files.
This is really good information to know - it seems (for now) that 45MP is a very sweet spot indeed!!!
Finally, I would point out as an addition to your point about the fair cost of this camera for what is being given that the Z8 is really not much more than the D850 (if at all) when inflation is taken into account - I think it ends up being right around the same price (at least in the US), and as you have pointed out, it is SO MUCH MORE camera - both in stills and most certainly in video.
Thanks again for the time you take to put together videos of this caliber - they are thoroughly enjoyed and quite educational!
-PD
P.S. to answer you query: I currently shoot with 2 Z6II's - I have ordered the Z8 and will have to decide if I get another Z8 and start using 2 Z8's or if I wait for an upcoming Z6III as a second body as I suspect it will have a few things that will work for other use cases that I have - namely, I expect the Z6 III to have a flip forward screen - something I do not want on a Z8 but would use on a vlogging/RUclips purposed camera like a Z6III.
Thank you for touching on diffraction issues at higher megapixels since it's one of the least understood or unknown aspects of sensor technology.
Yes sir full video to come :)
maybe you get a similar effect as in the double slit experiment when pixel resolution is getting close or higher than the wavelength, or some aliasing effects that are very well understood in audio signal sampling when the signal frequency is getting close to half of the sample frequency. red light is around 700nm. maybe you need much more than double of it to prevent that aliasing issues. so you need a pixel wider than 1.4µm.
the nikon z8/9 has a pixelsize of 4.35µm and the sony a7r iv with 61MP has a pixel size of 3.76µm.
you can see pixel size getting closer to the double of the wavelength. when you google for sampling and aliasing, you will understand
My comparison when I first adopted mirrorless in 2016 was between the mirrorless camera I bought, the Fuji X-Pro2, and my D600 and D800 cameras, so I leaned towards picking up the Fuji in many cases -- the DSLRs seemed huge and heavy by comparison.
Then came the first Z Series and I was besotted (still am). The Z9 was a bit of a reach, so to speak, but excels in every category except small size and weight. I know I'm going to embrace the Z8. It seems like the, ah, perfect balance!
And yet the Z8 is near D800 size/weight ;-D
D800 is a camera that just keeps giving. Unless you need the fast fps (I find it fine for many jobs), the 800 is an incredible bargain today
I've just bought a S/H D850 which I've lusted over for years! I bought a Z5 to try last year and I'll sell it, I really hate electronic viewfinders and I felt I didn't have control, but I'll keep the FTZ2 to future proof, I have so many F lenses. I missed 2 updates between my amazing D700 and the D850 which i regret, but the D850 is a D700 + 4x the res, plus whatever else it is. But Z7/8/9 are all well out of my financial orbit! Thanks for a great site!
Very much enjoyed this video.
10MP was enough.
24MP was enough.
47.5 MP was enough.
Like you said, the D850 is the best DSLR Nikon has ever made. I have the Z5 and it's great. Fun to use with old glass too. Paired with a 50mm 1.4 ais it has so much character. I do not shoot video. I will tell what will revolutionize the mirrorless world, battery life. Once they figure out better battery efficacy and quadruple battery life I will be done with the rest and buy that camera.
Thanks for the comparison. I already have a Z7II and wanted to another camera body. Z8 fits well in my ecosystem considering existing batteries will work with it smoothly. Waiting for your unboxing experience and further information on Z8.
Those circles around the City lights are called AIRY DISK ,the central bright circular region of the pattern produced by light diffracted when passing through a small circular aperture, so basically you are seeing diffraction, and no , the manufacturers will never "solve" diffraction, it's just how light works...great presentation by the way,👍🏻
I’ve had the the d850 for yrs now and been waiting for the much awaited release of the Z8 . And I have now purchased it and awaiting it’s arrival. Can’t wait , looking forward to making the transition to mirrorless , thanks for your valuable insight
Thanks, Matt. I share some, if not all of your thoughts on higher MP.
I have been using D3 since months after its launch. Z9 did pique my interest but it's way too expensive. Full pro body has always been my preference since spoilt by D3 but it is getting harder with kids in tow with priority for bag space being challenging even for a day out, let alone travels. Z8 might be a better option for sure but let's hope the features get trickled down to next-gen Z7/Z6. I have given up on the MP race with 12MP >16 years ago since it's larger file size require higher capacity cards, HDD/SSD storage, faster/newer CPUs, etc. Phone cameras just can't keep up with the active kids after being spoilt by DSLR but no argument here for convenience's and portability's sake.
Just heard Z8 allocated to me via Uk Nikon pro dealer! Expected any time from 25th May
Z6 user here. Think I'll jump to the Z8 once the price drops in a year or so. No rush for me though...Z6 is holding up really well I've got to say.
Thanks again Matt for yet another quality video. Of all the Nikon camera channels yours is right up there. Not quite sure what it is but your content has such a consistent, satisfying feel. Hope you and the channel are doing well ❤
Amazing comparison. Thanks so much! Lots to think about from somebody close to buying a d850 and having second thoughts 👍
I have a D850 and a Z7 II. I'll be getting a Z8 for sure. I'm 6'2" tall and my hands are on the large side ----- they're not huge, but perhaps a bit larger than average, so I prefer a camera that is just a bit bigger than the Z7 II that I own. I find the Z7 II is about as small as I can comfortably go. I'll be keeping my D850 and Z7 II, but will likely be using the Z8 most of the time. When I want to travel as light as possible with a camera that is as small as I can comfortably handle, I'll use the Z7 II. I'm very happy with 45MP sensors for all the reasons you gave. As for subject matter, I tend to photograph landscapes, birds in flight, various animals, and people. I like the prospect of being able to shoot 20fps RAW and I like the various types of "eye focus" options on the Z8. I don't need, nor do I want, the extra size and weight of a Z9.
Matt Again the Depth of research & quality of critical thinking reflect both High Level engagement with your product & deep critical Thinking!! Man your channel continues to inspire me as a working craftsman!! Thank You!!
Ronald - thank you
Agree 👍 Well earned top RUclipsr. Matt does all his own testing - if he says 45 mp is enough, that's based on his own testing and research 👍
This video comparison was excellent!
I currently have have the D750 but will be upgrading to a (used) D850. I'm moving into more video and priced the Z family but my budget unfortunately can't justify.
Can always grab a z30 with the new pz lens, or sigma 16mm for casual video use. If you really needed the video
Obviously this is the camera that allows me to move on from the d850 and D800 I use as second and 3rd cameras behind my Z6 vr1. The move down to 24mpx has not hurt my commercial work at all. I loved the D850 with the grip but every time I shoot with it, I miss the handling, weight and AF of the Z6 ...yes, the AF on the Z6 is better for my work which is primariy portraits, actor porfolio, ballet and theater for paid work and have it with me everyday in a sling bag when walking around my adopted city that is one of the most beautiful in the world. Having the larger pixel count will aid 10% of my frames but the real benefit of the Z8 is just having the latest tech so it might be the last camera I ever buy. Evenually I would like the grip but it is not needed. True silent mode at any speed will allow more performance sessions. The D850 needed a sound proof box for ballet which was a hassile. It might take 6 months to save for it plus going to another country to buy one since Nikon obeys the US sanctions demand and bans sale. Canon and Sony are also banned.
I deserve a birthday present next month but I will postpone that for until the end of summer when I have saved enough.
I'm so looking forward to trying the Z8 before I place an order, I just want the ergonomics to work for me. If not I already started a saving fund for the Z9 a couple of months back. However, I want the Z8 to work because I know for a a fact that if I go with the Z9 while there is a Z8, I will end up with considerable buyer's remorse. Of course, all of that depends on the Z8 price here being reasonably below that of the Z9, if they're not at least $1,500 apart, I'll just get the Z9 because I'm planning to get a vertical grip in the future. I think we have a hands-on event here within 10 days, and I'm looking forward to it! I just hope I won't be disappointed with the ergos or the price!
If you shoot often with a vertical grip (i.e. shoot vertically/portrait mode) or you film for very extended time periods (over 1h) and need the highest requirements 8k 60p, shoot in poor weather conditions a lot, and do not mind the heavier, bigger body. the Z9 might make more sense. Otherwise, if you like the size of the smaller, lighter, cheaper Z8 - it's a win/win/win.
@@dance2jam Thanks for the insight. I posted the comment before knowing the local price in my country. It turns out the body alone is $4,635 and with the grip and an extra battery it gets to a whopping $5,300+. The Z9 is currently on discount for $5,400, so it makes no sense to buy the Z8 whatsoever. The joke is that the current Z8 price is exclusive for launch, once this batch sells out and they get a new batch, the MSRP is $5,300+ for the body only! If you add the grip, it'll be $500 more than the Z9 when it's on discount or just $200+ short of the Z( price when not discounted! They obviously want to discourage people here from buying the Z8 because it seems they're not happy with the Z9 sales and want to drive traffic there. Still, it's ridiculous, and I only see those who want another Z9 without a grip buying the Z8. They definitely missed the mark by a long shot on the pricing of the Z8 here! I don't know if some other parts of the world got equally stupid pricing!
@@kaminobatto Wow. That's crazy!!!. IF the PRICE of the z8 were less expensive (i.e. similar in price as it is in the US), and you don't need two CFE B cards, deeper buffer, heavier weather sealing, vertical grip, or sustained recording in the most data intensive video modes, personally, I would Z8 it. The Z9 is a little too big (and the grip a little too deep) for my hands - and as such - causes some hand fatigue even when monopod or tripod based from pressing multiple AF Area/AF-On custom buttons and the shutter. It is a good reach from AF-ON to shutter and FN1 to shutter. Personally, I would love this camera with smaller form factor. Love the Z9, but. Good luck with whatever you end up getting.
@@dance2jam Thanks! And I hear you, but in my mind, the Z9 is a superior camera and I have a preference for larger bodies that just fit very well in my hand like the D800/810 especially with the grip attached. I have the same preference for two other unibodies I own (D3X and 1D-X C), so when the savings are $200, I'd rather get the flagship.
@@kaminobatto I can't argue with you. I own the Z9 and it's the most fun I've had with a camera - and I feel I get the most out of the time I spend in the field. I'm going to shoot an Ice Hockey game for the first time. We will see how successful I am at indoor sports with this beast.
The D850 was the camera I dreamed of walking out of Grays of Westminster with, until I had my 'Z epiphany' and ended up walking out of there with a Z6 3yrs ago almost. Around August I'm planning to walk out of there with a Z8, to complement, not replace, my Z6. If I want compactness or ultimate high ISO performance, that will remain the go-to.
Nikon redefined "all arounder" to be sure with Z8. Have D850, Z9 and Z8 ordered. Z8 will likely be used the most however, I love the battery life and grip of Z9. Also loved that Nikon continued similar grip on body as Z9 on Z8. ...Kinda odd to me that Z8 with new battery grip form factor is larger than Z9, physics I guess. I really enjoy your thoughtful videos Matt! happy subscriber and true fan! P.S. a little thing for some but, a necessity for me is the buttons illuminate in the dark. I work a lot in theaters and nightclubs and I find that feature very helpful and happy Nikon came back around since D850 to include again.
I really enjoy your informative videos Matt. They are right up my alley. I have a Z9 and a Z7II. I was considering replacing the Z7II with a Z8, but then I would have no camera with a mechanical shutter. I shoot public art professionally nationwide in the USA, and all of it is LED lit at night. The mechanical shutter is essential for certain exposure situations. It sort of decided it for me. Are the future generations of cameras going to be all electronic shutter I wonder.
Thanks Jeremy. Does using the fine grain shutter control assist? :). Cheers Matt
@@MattIrwinPhotography Matt, I will test that. Admittedly, I have not gotten proficient with the Z9 to the point that I even knew that was something I could control. Know thy gear. On a job last week I ran into the striping problem but solved it by slowing the shutter speed down. Thank you.
Great video Matt! Insane level of detail. Currently running a Z6II and strongly considering the upgrade simply to help with my bird and wildlife photography. Might need to save for a while though, but think it''ll be worth it. Would be good to get your opinion on what you think each of the Z cameras are perfect for. Who the audience would be for each one and what their use cases might be.
Great idea for a video. Thanks :) FH
Great review. I tend to agree with you about 45mp being an optimal size. I have a D850 and Z7 and make prints as large as 60 inches on a side. Sure up close you can see some fuzziness but who looks at a 60" wide print up close? Anyway,, I have a Z8 on order, I'll be selling both my Z7 and D850 to defray the cost. The Nikon Z lenses are phenomenal. I've kept my D850 because of a 200-500mm zoom but that will have to go and I'll use the f mount to Z mount converter. Thanks
I have an original z6 and love it. Have always wanted a z7 for the higher resolution, and am after a long lense like the 100-400 to get into bird photography. However, it’s my 40th bday next year, so thinking of a z8 instead of Z7ii. Love the idea of the Z9, but the size might be a pain when on holidays etc. and the price difference is worth considering too.
I was dreaming of the D850 (i was a user of D750 and D780 until now) but I just bought the Z8 with a good discount, so, i more than happy. It' s a beast i discover day to day. I think i made the best decision, not waiting for the Z6iii (that i did for many months).
I love the size, the 45MP sensor and the feeling of this camera.
Have a D850 and going to stick to it for now. Maybe in a few years. Thanks for the wonderful video
Hoping to go from z7II to Z8 if I can get a decent price for the Z7II. I would have been happy with the one time rumored 36 megapixel sensor to improve low light noise and even done without 8k video to bring the price down but getting a “mini” Z9 is still very sweet so my fingers are crossed that the z7II holds its value with yet another 45.7 megapixels body in the lineup
Ordered my Z8 on launch day, been hanging on to my D810. Hopefully it will arrive sometime this year
Thanks Matt. A very good review. I am caught between the nostalgia of the DSLR and the intelectual justification of Mirrorless and the passion for Nikon. You clarified so much with this review. Thank you
I have the D850 and recently the Z9. Subjectively my F mount lenses seem to perform better on the Z9 especially my 200-500 f4.5-6.3. I still think the D 850 is very good. Keeping both for now until at least next year’s solar eclipse. I where I live I am dead center of the path.
Matt you hit it on the head here and no you don’t need 61 mp, but manufacturers and RUclipsrs have brain washed people into thinking that this is needed. Heck, you don’t even need 45mp, 16-24mp is plenty. The files coming out of a Nikon d700 and d4, didn’t just become bad because there are higher megapixel files.
You discovered one problem due to defraction and you have the noise, due to cramming all of those megapixels on a sensor. What makes the Nikon d700, D4 and D5 magical is because the pixels are larger due to having less of them, which reduces noise and even dynamic range before noise hits. This market is driven more by advertising than common sense sometimes. The Nikon z8 will be a run away hit.
This is the reason that Sony picked 12mp for the A7SIII and FX3 and Fx6 and they are absolute beast at low light performance vs their higher megapixel counter parts, you can practically see in the dark. Heck the files on a A7RIII, D850 can be a beast when fast turn around, like same day is a priority. Heif files will be the standard in every camera manufacturer cameras going forward. Matt can you test video on the Z9 vs the Z8 for overheating and the card becoming hot, I think Matt Granger and Jared Polin said the card gets hot and you might get an hour.
The Z8 is not an improvement for a pure landscape photographer who shoots the Z7ii and does not shoot video. ???
I'm swapping out my Z7 II for the Z8. I retired my D850 and all my F-glass except the 500 PF for the Z6, but found it lacking for wildlife so upgraded it to the Z7 II which I found was a worthy replacement. But the Z8 will be in another league.
Excellent comparison, Matt! As a landscape and product photographer with a Z7, I am very interested in the Z8, and keeping the Z7. This way, on hikes, I can have a wide-angle on the Z7 and a telephoto on the Z8, and mitigate frequent lens changes. OK, regarding some who claim "near identical" image quality between the Z8 and Z7ll, I would be a bit surprised if that's indeed true, because certainly the 2 year newer stacked sensor, combined with the new Expeed7 engine, would impart better image quality in terms of sharpness and detail, especially in low-light?! Of course, I plan to do comparison testing once the Z8 is available.In terms of clarity/sharpness between the Z9 and the Sony at 60Mpixels, I found that test very interesting! I generally shoot at around f/11 anyway, rarely even f/13, and my images on a Z7 are pretty dang sharp, so very excited to see the output from the Z8~ Your expert opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
No one is putting out more informative content (that is easy to understand) on planet Nikon than you Matt
Thanks Michael :)
i am wondering if the Z6-III would keep the same sensor with the better expeed processor, or if they already have a new sensor where they apply their new "dual capacity" sensor patent for switching between two brightness sensitivities on a pixel by pixel base.
i hope they will stay around 24 MP for good noise and dynamic range performance.
it could be the best sensor regarding noise and dynamic range
Firstly great video. I’m a landscape photographer and shoot totally in manual mode. Haven’t found a reason to justify to change. Both are great camera. I don’t like to use adapters. So the additional costs of pro level lenses would also make it too expensive… For me the price to performance ratio is not a big enough difference to make the leap. I will most likely one day… Just not yet….
Matt, I had to pause the video and comment on the high megapixel portion. You are correct in explaining the amount of photos you would have to go through if you can also shoot 30fps or higher with such a high MP camera. I wounder if you would have some time this weekend to pop into AP Studios live stream to be on the panel to speak on this? Would be great to have you on to share some of your point.
Love my D850, and don’t shoot much video. But the tech in this Z8 is pretty amazing. IBIS and silent shooting and AF tracking of birds in flight will be hugely improved. Matt Granger did some tests of video comparing Z8 and Z9 and noted that Z8 overheats much quicker than Z9 (smaller body/different material) but didn’t think it would be an issue for how MOST people shoot video. I was hoping Z8 was gonna be $3500 or $3700, but for what it is $4000 seems quite fair, although I will need to use old Nikon glass with ftz adapter for awhile!!!
The Z8 looks great. Do you think we'll get the 9 types of focus modes in the Z9 with a firmware update?
Thank you so much Matt for this very informative video. It's particularly interesting your analysis about the megapixel sweet spot in 35mm cameras. Thank you again. I currently use the Z7ii, I'm very happy with it
I've got a D850 but I'm keeping my eyes peeled for an incredible deal on a gently used Z7 or Z7II. The Z8 is impressive, but I'm mainly a stills shooter and would rather have a lighter overall kit than the additional FPS and video features in the Z8/Z9. No doubt some of the early adopters who picked up the Z7 on release are going to be interested in selling their old gear to upgrade which should result in some attractive buying opportunities for people like me who sat on the sidelines waiting for the mirrorless ecosystem to mature a bit before making the leap.
Man "pre-capture" sounds like Minority Report all over again :) Great video!
The most sensible camera vid I’ve seen in a long time. Ty 👌👌
I went from a Z6 to a Z8 and I absolutely love it... only thing I'm missing is the possibility to override metering mode via an Fn Button. I liked to have a button to temporarily activate highlight saving mode.
Hello Matt, I’m a big Nikon fan. I started in the early 80’s with an EM, then an F3 high point, then jumped to a D80 my most favourite camera but now… well you convinced me to get myself the D850, but now ??? You’ve totally changed my mind and i now want the Z8 I think it will be my last camera and will last me another Twenty years which will mean I’ll be in my 80’s 🤪🤪🤪 so I just wanted to say thank you so much for your insight and expertise. Your a truly passionate person when it comes to your photography but you don’t baffle me with all the techno jargon others love to spew fourth 🤮🤮🤮 your honest, good natured and humorous approach is, for me, just right and I find you more listenable to than all the other RUclips photographers out there. Your NOT big headed or trying to be the best out there with snappy catchphrases or gimmicky trash. Your just you and I for one really like your approach to photography. You always think of the novice photographer. You might be in full flight technical jargon and then quick as a flash explain it for us slightly less fortunate chaps I’ll say 😉😉😉 anyway, keep up the fantastic work and please, PLEASE… don’t ever change your approach to your channel… as you keep saying with the Z8 perfection is hard to beat 🤪😍😂 take care and look after yourself, Kenny 😁🤩👍👍👍👍👍👍
This is the camera I've been waitiing on. I've held on jumping ship, on buying any mirrorless because I knew this camera was on the way.
I'll have to buy it at first opportunity. I"m ready for it's abilities.
Wireless tethering is a GREAT upgrade for me. Batteriese are the same and that's a major bonus, too!
Once again, a really nice video, Matt! I also think that the 45MP are the sweet spot when it comes to picture quality and file size. I've already pre-ordered the Z8, coming from my Z 7II (which I will still use as a backup, or to save weight and space on difficult hikes). I traded in my beloved D7200 and all of my DX lenses, because I don't really use them anymore.
Regarding the rings in the diffraction section:
I have noticed Sony Cameras seem to do some correction on the readout level and seem to bake them in in the raw files. With an A6400 of a friend when comparing raw files I noticed signs of digital sharpening IN the raw files.
What we see here MIGHT be some sort of sharpening as well... maybe diffraction compensation baked into the raw files.
This always was my number one reason why I didn't like sony... the seem to make some of their processing non optional and even do it to the data before it is written as a raw file.
I have a Z6II and would love the Z8 for video and weddings🤓
I own the Z6ii and Z9. If you are doing video, go the Z9. Unfortunately overheating is going to make the Z8 unsuitable for most working videographers. It’s such a shame. I was really hoping the Z8 wouldn’t experience the overheating problems reported.
Hey Matt, thanks for a great run-down on comparisons (D850 and Z8). I currently have a Z6 with an ATMOS Ninja 5+ exporting N-Log as I have not had the upgrade to ProRes RAW done. The good ole Z6 is great in low light.
I can't wait to get my hands on a Z8 for all the reasons you have noted, but also for the improved dynamic range, the increase in megapixels, in camera ProRes RAW etc. I always knew the Z6 was providing a journey into the Z range and lenses. Investing in the hardware and lenses is one thing. Investing time in a new system is an additional cost. I have never regretted it.
In summary, I've been waiting for the Z8 to arrive, and it is exactly what my use case needs.
Thanks again for your expertise.
Selwyn.
Cheers Selwyn. Fantastic to hear from you. How are things in NZ?
@@MattIrwinPhotography All good over the Ditch now Matt, thanks. I was incommunicado for a time due to Cyclone Gabrielle. The Z6 came in handy during that event and the aftermath. I'm working on an adaptation project, kicking off with the disaster and then going forward.
A Z8 will compliment the production, especially when creating mood. Quite exciting.
I hope all is well in Melbourne. Stunning work you are doing (as always).
Love this video. I really wanted the D850 when it came out but couldn't afford it and good glass so went z6 and over time have invested in the great z glass. I was effectively waiting for a z6iii but a genuine d850 replacement I hit pre-order on the day and can't wait to get it!
I am just going to feed your excitement Kevin (which is wrong for me to do, because I don't know what and how you like to shoot). I have barely picked up my D850 in over a year because of the Z9. Had the Z8 existed back when I bought the Z9, it would have been a very tough choice, but I would have likely landed on the Z8. I can tell you that for what I shoot - sports/action/wildlife - the Z9 has been lightyears ahead of anything I could have thought the difference between DSLR and Mirrorless would be. I could fill an hour with it. For me, the difference is huge. Is the Z9 perfect, no. Could I tell Nikon exactly what I need and many would need that are "easy" fixes to me, sure. Zebras in stills for one. Battery percentage left vs the bars for two. Sony's A1 has both. Doesn't seem too hard to implement - but since neither are in the Z8, it must take more than firmware. That said, there are more things, but I never regretted the move and still use the camera every day. You are going to enjoy it much more than you think! Have fun shooting.
Diffraction is a good point, it explains the disappointment of results we are seeing from the Fuji 40MP APS-C sensor compared to their 24/26Mp ones. Pixel pitch is a real thing.
I agree that 45Mp FX is the sweet spot and Nikon knows this as they are historically very keen on giving the best all around IQ in the market.
As much as I would love to own a Z8, the D850 is my true love and it will probably last me years to come and does more than enough for what I shoot. I think in due time I will have both in my bag as the Z8 would be the best companion to my D850.
I got a D850 when I knew mirrorless were going to take over but 45mp for about double the price in mirrorless I felt was crazy. Battery life is double or more with the D850 too which is important when your photography involves waiting around for a plane or bird to fly past. I did buy my first mirrorless this year but a cheap small Fuji with image stabilisation which works surprisingly well for its price. I can take photos with it held high on a mono pod which I would not risk doing the same with a larger mirrorless in case I dropped it.
@@petercreagh8797 I did the same but you have to understand the amazing tech that went into the Z8 and how it performs for both still and video shooters including the AF which is why it costs $4k. Am I getting one, No because I don't need one and like you the D850 is all I need. Also I am seeing battery tests and shooters are getting over 1000 shots and Ricci even got 2000 out of one battery, hard to believe but there you go.
Well, fair's fair, this was really interesting and informative and an eye opening with the sensor comparison. It's so easy to get hung up on the numbers. What this reminds us is it's the images that count.
The D850 launched in 2017, a bottle of Coca-Cola and a cheeseburger also cost more today than they did in 2017 without the jump in technology or features. For me, Nikon has at last arrived in the mirrorless camera realm. They’re working with third party lens makers, and they are launching a fully outfitted uncompromising workhouse camera in the Z8. This new all arounder is simply incredible. Thank you, Matt for sharing so much info so quickly.
I use the D850 and I love it (but I love my D750 and D500 as well) but I feel like I was burned badly when I bought the Z6II and had to "settle" for subpar AF whilst Canon and Sony were just pumping out mirrorless cameras with superior AF capabilities. I confirmed this when I bought my wife a A7RIV . So now we have a mirrorless Z8 which is a mini Z9. I should be stoked but I've seen too many examples of the Z9 not hitting the mark that I'm not ready to pull out my wallet for a Z8. I absolutely agree that nobody beats Nikon's color, menu layout, etc. however..none of that matters if my AF point is off. Nikon really needs to earn my trust before it earns my money.
@@MrBazReviews I'm glad I'm not the Lone Ranger when it comes to holding Nikon accountable. It's a shame because I truly want to see Nikon succeed. I just feel like their heads are in the clouds or they've written off cameras as a serious source of revenue. I'd love to step in as their President. I'd be looking for new engineers.
Got the D800 and D500 and still it doesn't make sense for me to upgrade as a hobby photographer. But, in a few years, if things get more affordable, the Z8 looks very very interesting to me and I almost even think about to spare money for it as the first Z - system investment. Maybe no further F-System upgrade to a D850 necessary?
...But the D850 probably will drop significantly..🤔
Superb! to the 8th power. Thanks for the effort!
Great video Matt, I’m a D850 owner and shoot mainly aviation. I absolutely love the D850 for many reasons, ergonomics, dynamic range, build quality etc, but have found the fps a bit of a draw back, even with the grip. For that reason I’m going to purchase the Z8. Really enjoyed the video and look forward to the Z8 arriving.
Hey Matt. Can you test the maximum possible recording time of Z8 at the following formats before the camera eventually overheats and shuts down please? Better if you can use a dummy battery in some of the video tests, thank you!
1. 8.3k 60P & 30P in N-Raw
2. 8k 30P in H265 10-bit
3. 4.1K 120P in N-Raw and 4k 120P in H265 10-bit
4. 4.1k 30/60P in N-raw/proresraw and 4K 30/60P (oversampled) in H265 10-bit
Excellent vlog.
For record the reason why the 24-70 2.8 Z vs F mount lenses are different sizes is because of F mount version does not telescope outwards like the Z version of memory serves me right. The Z lens when zoomed out to 70 focal range is almost 3-4 inches longer than at 24mm range.
Love this review and I am really excited that I preordered the Z8. I started a photography business with the D7500, picked up a D780 with D7500 as backup, and now the plan is Z8 with D780 as alternate or backup. It really does look like a great all around camera, one that I can use as my primary for years to come and I don't need an Atomos Ninja any longer, lightening my load a bit. It's going to be such a trip shooting without a mechanical shutter but I always turn the shutter release jingle on every camera and usually focus and shoot from the display or screen (I find with d7500 and D780 I nail focus more from the display vs viewfinder but prefer shooting with a viewfinder) and that is typically quieter so I am thinking I will be a huge fan of silent shooting.
Thanks, Matt. Enjoyed the insights. Now it is again calendar/ship date watching time! Rumor has it Nikon will start shipping 5/25.
Cheers
I have a D850 if I were going to upgrade, it would be a Z9. There is some differences in the D850 not enough for me to get a Z8
Have Z6 and getting Z8 as main camera. Just got rung up today to say waiting for me to pick up.
OMG. Exciting!!!! 📸
Really nice discussion, thanks Matt. Interesting information about diffraction vs High resolution that I hadn't thought about before. Maybe 45MP (or thereabouts) is the practical limit for full-frame colour sensors?
Yes if diffraction is a concern. Perhaps it will be solved in the future. :) Cheers Matt
once more a fantastic video. I was stopping at the 810 but now I ordered the z8. I just hope I will get one soon.
I currently use a Z6II and will get a Z8 in a couple of months once supplies are more readily available, will also allow for the first updates to be done. Actually looking forward as I mainly shoot wildlife.
The rings around the lights is also diffraction. It’s just simple diffraction of a point light source.
I still use the D850 and will continue to do so after I get the Z8 upgrading to my first mirrorless system. After watching Matt Granger's video comparison of these two cameras the Z8 did show quite a difference in performance. Though I did shoot an orchid close up at f20 to get all the flowers in the depth of field with the Tamron 90mm macro it turned out very good and the same person who said this was probably the best flower photo he has seen. Also mentioned diffraction right after I stated f20. Then again to be honest every photo suffers from diffraction through physics alone and that orchid photo close up was on point at f20. Don't fear the diffraction, get what you want. Just be careful on landscapes and take shots at different apertures to get to know your lenses as if you don't know your lens welcome to pin cushion and barrel roll, haha!
Im so confused....I have not long started photography building kit up slowly. I want to stick with Nikon and currently have a D5600 mid range camera. The D850 was to be by next camera but given the new release of the Z8, do I save a bit more or stick to the D850 dream and wait a few years for the Z8. I don't do videos at all only photography....so difficult to know what to do
You have to consider the fact that the D850 can be had in good condition used for a 1/4 of the price that the Z8 is new. You also have to consider whether you need everything that the Z8 offers. It’s impressive yesss… but, do you need it? If you’re a profesional maybe.. if you’re a hobbyist, probably not
Huge price difference though. IBIS and frame rate are irrelevant to me, so too video features, D850 is still the winner.
Hi Matt, I use a Z7 as my 2nd. body to compliment my Z9. Personally, If I was going to upgrade my Z7, it would be with another Z9. I need the big battery, use the GPS, I like my cards to be the same, (memory and speed) I always have a grip installed if not built in the body. I also appreciate the FULL metal body which adds to the superior heat dissipation.
The Z8 is a great camera for an 850 successor but that is not what I need.
Regards Matt!
Rick📷📷📷
I’m a little stunned that my Z8 is already on the way. I thought they’d be back ordered for a little bit. Now I’m feeling buyers remorse. I love the d850 but I am really ready to go full in on the mirrorless system and that’s why I’m thinking of upgrading. I know I want to go mirrorless and I was waiting for a mirrorless in the form of a d850, so maybe I should just stick with this
Great review.
As I recently moved from D700 to D800, the Z8 will be a great purchase in ...10 years 😅
Rear LCD is noticeably larger on Z8. Can you please compare the LCD quality in future video. Thanks Matt!!
Need this camera yesterday!
I agree we don’t need 60MP for most of us. I agree 45 seems to be the sweet spot, on the Z8 is there an option to shoot a few less MP not counting the 11MP or shooting in DX mode for stills for times you also don’t need 45MP?
I have the Z9 and love it but thought of trading my D850 for the Z8. The problem is nobody wants to pay you a reasonable price. So I will keep my lovely D850 as a backup to my Z9.
Very good information Matt. It is amazing how much technology we have today for photography!
Hi Matt..
I want to upgrade from Nikon D5300.
I am hobbiest wildlife photographer.
Please suggest if D850 or Z8 will be more appropriate for me. Would like to use the device for next 6 to 7yrs atleast.
I do have Nikon and Sigma F mount lenses.
Pls guide
Hello Matt. Great video. Currently have a d850 and z6ii Combo. Thinking of selling my d850 and upgrade to a z8 to pair with my z6ii. What do you think of this combo? I can Shoot with my z8 as my main and z6ii for second cam, video, b roll, and travel since its so compact.
Say Matt, I didn't see it mentioned anywhere yet but, will NIKON EH-7P Charging AC Power Adapter be compatible with Z8? (same used on Z9 and other Z in camera charging)
Great comparison Matt , thanks for sharing. 👍
Hello Matt, I have a D850 and. do love it. I have a Z7ii and that is very nice and I have a Z9 which is amazing. So now is the thing I am now for the first time thinking of sending of the D850 and Z7ii to help with the Z8. But I have not held the Z8 I hear it is amazing with some heating limitation (which will not worry me, See Matt Granger) all the reviewers at the time love the D750 when that came out? I got one and just did not like it. So I am waiting tile I can get one in my hands before ordering. Keep safe, keep well and stay honest with your reviews.
Looking forward to my Z8 coming in, it will be for me a perfect companion to my Z9.
Love the D850, has been a great camera, have owned it since release. Plays nice with the Z9 but not the same as the Z8 will be.
Thanks for the caparison, reaffirmed my thoughts 🙂. Question is, keep the D850 around for old time sake and a third body. Or, sell it. Can see some uses down the road, but. 😊
I've bracketed three shots using the Z9 for higher DR images. IT worked very well. I had not tried that on the D850, so I can not compare it other than to say, with the faster frame rates of the Z9, less room for movement.
Yes I have used it handheld. And it works for certain situations really well 😀