Terrific account of this leg's adventure. Best of luck for the remainder of the VOR legs. With the thoughts of the recent Clipper Round the World race and the SF Low Speed Chase I hope good luck and fortune to be in their sails.
Amazing leg here, and the media coverage is just perfect... I'm getting excited thinking about how we'll be able to enjoy sailboat races from now on. I love this, I wanna be there.
Now I understand why Volvo decided to produce a uniform boat for every team ;) The quality of those boats form 2014-15 was really impressive in terms of defects ;)
A lot of informative and useful comments on the number of serious repairs needed. I wonder when they did the repairs if they made the area of hull or mast stronger than before. At the first opportunity did they strengthen other areas of the boat. The designs were woefully inadequate and could have lead to lawsuits if death or permanent injury had resulted.
That is really good to hear. I was literally getting angry when seeing these boats just break down all the time. Just make the boats a bit more sturdy (and heavy) but they will win in the long run!
I felt so bad for the french team so much effort put in you could feel the weight of the deception in their faces. These guys have balls of steel. I thought I was good with my occasional first places in our beer can phrf races, man this gave me a reality check on my abilities.
Great recap video. Too bad we can't live the excitement the whole way through. Its a shame how many mechanical problems the boats have though, especially how often the seem to loose their mast.
Every boat in this leg of the race but one suffered a major structural failure in this race - so wrong, and unnecessary. There may be a design problem and or quality/production problem involved in of each of these failures, but those are not the root problems. The REAL problem is a YACHT RACING CULTURE and a DESIGN RULE that places absolute speed above the qualities of seakindliness and SEAWORTHINESS. The result are the engineering monstrosities you see on display here, incredibly fast but intrinsically unseaworthy vessels. When 'Tony' C.A. Marchaj wrote his seminal "Seaworthiness: the forgotten factor" [revised edition: Adlard Coles Nautical, 1996] back in 1986 there was already a long history of yacht racing disasters attributable to modern yacht design: Admiral's Cup of '77, Fastnet in '79 and others. He outlines in great mathematical details the problems inherent ultra-light displacement, overly beamy, and over-canvassed yachts. The situation has only become more and more extreme in the last two decades. To this devil's brew has been added light weight composite construction techniques that simply cannot stand up to the incredibly high dynamic and impact loads placed upon them. This situation has transferred too much RESPONSIBILITY of the security of the vessel and safety of the crew upon the skill of the crew, 'safety' systems, and the availability of outside assistance - NOT GOOD. Unseaworthy is now the new normal - we'll see how long sponsors are willing to put up with the situation - or rather pay for it. Unfortunately this unhealthy attitude is spilling over into more conventional production boats and more casual sailors - also not good. What is REALLY wrong is how yachtsmen remain willfully blind to the flaws they build into their yachts in the MAD QUEST for pure and unlimited speed. Racing on the open ocean is exciting and challenging at any speed, the desire to do so at an arbitrarily high speeds is motivated only by vanity.; the Southern Ocean will be obliging to punish you for that sin. There is ALWAYS a wave out there that can obliterate your vessel, that is a simple fact of life; the Volvo 70 boats and others like them [IMOCA Open60] have moved into the realm where they cannot handle the stresses of the wind, waves, and weather that are well within the range of normal and survivable for a yacht of that general size but heavier displacement - and smaller rig - and more lateral area in the underwater body. But these are really clever fellows [and gals now too] aren't they? they've considered every little angle, "The only forgotten factor is seaworthiness".
i am no specialist in boats and yachts at all. i would guess these boats here are like the Formula 1 of the yacht world. if thats the case, i think it is absolutely reasonable to have so many failures. they are stressed to their limits for the last 0,1% of speed, and things will fail. and like in real F1, technology passes through to the everyday cars/boats. obviously not streched that much to their limits, but in more reasonable and safe proportions. again, i am not stating hard facts here, just my opinion by comparing this to the motorsports world the only thing i am sure about is that carbon fiber is definitely stronger than wood or other synthetic materials. with the proper wheaving and "baking" it is almost indestructible. it is all about finding the weak spots over time and eventually understanding the different design needed to achieve a totally reliable carbon fiber body
Not really a good analogy in my opinion. The F1 cars race short races on a closed course during the daylight in good weather - and even there rules are regularly adjusted when the body count becomes unacceptably high. A better analogy might be the Paris-to-Dakar Rally in a hurricane where the terrain can kill you within minutes if you happen to step out of your car. Try taking a F1 car on a course like that. The Americas Cup would probably be a better comparison to F1 auto racing, but then again look at the most recent 2013 AC and the AC72 class boats: expensive, dangerously unstable, fragile, safe under only very limited weather conditions - but incredibly fast. [and, btw, in violation of the original Deed of Gift which stipulated that the competitors all sail to the regatta on their own bottoms] My point again about an ethic of arbitrarily fast speed being the only concern left. For thousands of years boat design was based on an ethos that your boat was supposed to keep you alive - not kill you. Now it seems yachting has turned into an extreme sport where, in the pursuit of Vanity, the security of the vessel and the lives of the crew are consider to be almost completely expendable. Its time, in my opinion, for SANE yachtsmen to push back against this trend - its not healthy for the sailors, the sport, or yachting in general. Automobile racing, in my opinion, because it is a modern invention has always centered itself around a fascination with cheating death and watching other people die - more than a little crazy. Sailors on the other hand have always understood that the ocean can ALWAYS raise the bar higher than you can jump, and that skill, LUCK, and a sound boat are all required to survive what the sea can dish out to you. As for carbon fiber in marine applications, we are only beginning to learn how to use that material appropriately in high performance yachts. If you are interested in the problem check out: SPECTRUM SLAM FATIGUE LOADING OF SANDWICH MATERIALS FOR MARINE STRUCTURES; Magnus E. Burman, Anders G. Rosén and Dan E. Zenkert, KTH - Aeronautical and Vehicle Engineering 100 44 Stockholm, www.ave.kth.se best regards, W^3
William Reymond i will not disagree with what you say, since i have no knowledge to do so. yes, maybe paris-dakar is a better comparison. but even there, out of 100 cars that start the race, more than half never reach the finish line due to failures i will just note that when F1 first used carbon fiber there were a lot of failures and it kept evolving, until we reached the point where they are almost indestructible. i guess the yacht section will have to go through this procedure as well, although, as you said, the stakes are much bigger when you are in the middle of the ocean
My main point is that for an ocean going yacht your life is constantly dependent upon your yacht being able to maintain its structural integrity. Becoming a 'casualty' risks not only your own life, but very directly the lives of anyone else required to render you assistance and not merely cost and inconvenience. An auto race like the Daka is based on a presumption that if you break down or wreck your life isn't immediately imperiled once you get out of your vehicle, that repairs & etc. can be undertaken in relatively safe conditions and nobody is likely to be put at much risk simply by coming to your aid. This is not the case on the Southern Ocean. It's a bit of an irony that the Paris to Daka is now just The Daka Rally and has been conducted in South America since 2009 because the situation on the ground in Africa became too dangerous - not to mention the number of Africans being killed by the racers apparently. To push yacht design forward based solely upon a the vainglorious notion of arbitrarily high speed has lead to a situation that, in my opinion, is just getting stupid. These yachts were going to pieces in conditions that were well within the range or normal - for the Southern Ocean. The main culprits, in my opinion, in this situation are a design rule that allows for an over reliance upon three things: overly beamy, overly canvassed yachts; extensive use of advanced composite materials to achieve performance; and external 'safety' systems to keep the crew alive when the boat [inevitably] fails. The VOR design rule was contrived first to allow for yachts to achieve an *arbitrarily* high speed; seaworthiness and sea-kindliness were relegated to secondary design characteristics. At least that's how I read the rule. As a sailor I find this set of conditions intolerable. regards, W^3
It seems that way. They are made of the best,strongest carbon fibers but they engineer it to be as light as possible so when a stronger material is discovered they just make the hull & structure thinner & lighter instead of designing in a margin of safety. In my opinion that's great for racing boats that are close to shore & rescue crews but in races where they are in remote areas & a rescue could be days away that's crazy. I'm sure there are some build guidelines but IMO they have gone to far
Are these yachts so delicate because the engineers have sacrificed a proportion of the durability/weight so they can go faster? Surely normal superyachts are more tougher than these right?
+6969SpAcE6969 Strength is an important factor with how extreme these yachts are going to pushed. Everything is designed for a well balance between light and strong. The carbon epoxy and actual carbon fiber are tough material and disperse stress better than conventional material. These boats are however designed to allow the crew to push it past the point of reliable use. The relentlessness these approach these races with just beats the shit out of the boat. Your average production cruiser won't allow you to push the yacht to its own destruction like these thoroughbred racing designs can. The teams knows that's what it takes to win a competition like this.
Fascinating stuff it's true but the sailor and boat builder in me just can't relate to all these breakages. The bottom line is that these boats just aren't strong enough for the conditions they find themselves in and the hard way they are sailed. Maybe the consensus is that these failures add to the drama but to me it simply demonstrates a chronic lack of respect for the sea.
I have to say the exact opposite of you. These guys have spent their entire lives on the sea and they respect it very much. There are even certain "words" that they will not say because of maritime superstitions. The fact is that they HAVE to push the limits of machine and man in order to have a "chance" of winning. They know what they are doing every second. To say they don't respect something is disrespectful of them.
Not sure I understand your point about being superstitious. Are you trying to suggest that they respect the sea because they do not use superstitious words? I appreciate your point about having to push the limits in order to win but every failure reduces their chances of winning. Also I would add that I did not say the sailors lacked respect. I place the blame more at the door of the designers and rule makers. I have nothing but deep respect for the guys who go to sea in these fragile craft.
For me, this is so much more exciting than the america cup.
All these guys are true adventurers, I really enjoyed watching this.
Terrific account of this leg's adventure.
Best of luck for the remainder of the
VOR legs.
With the thoughts of the
recent Clipper Round the World
race and the SF Low Speed Chase
I hope good luck and fortune to be
in their sails.
Amazing leg here, and the media coverage is just perfect... I'm getting excited thinking about how we'll be able to enjoy sailboat races from now on. I love this, I wanna be there.
Nail bitting...literally. You gotta love it.
Thanks for the video. Keep the good job.
Now I understand why Volvo decided to produce a uniform boat for every team ;)
The quality of those boats form 2014-15 was really impressive in terms of defects ;)
A lot of informative and useful comments on the number of serious repairs needed. I wonder when they did the repairs if they made the area of hull or mast stronger than before. At the first opportunity did they strengthen other areas of the boat. The designs were woefully inadequate and could have lead to lawsuits if death or permanent injury had resulted.
networkbike543 You don't know what you are talking about. First of all boats like that aren't meant to be in conditions like that.
It boggles my mind that this really happens! Best race in the world!
Bring these back!
What do you mean, they haven't gone anywhere. They race every two years, next one is 2017.
They don't do the Leg documentaries like they used too.
Jackle61 2017 has been canceled
Fantastic review. really was a dog fight of a race. Great effort by all!!
That is really good to hear. I was literally getting angry when seeing these boats just break down all the time. Just make the boats a bit more sturdy (and heavy) but they will win in the long run!
I felt so bad for the french team so much effort put in you could feel the weight of the deception in their faces. These guys have balls of steel. I thought I was good with my occasional first places in our beer can phrf races, man this gave me a reality check on my abilities.
Wow! Amazing Sailors in Amazing Sail boats, Sailing in some Crazy Conditions.
Great recap video. Too bad we can't live the excitement the whole way through. Its a shame how many mechanical problems the boats have though, especially how often the seem to loose their mast.
Epic! How Groupama gained back vital points in the In-Port Race, after the Lost Leg Win! Ken Read: "DId I mention I hate the blue boat?"
beautiful sport for the strong and courageous people
Why don't these boats have some sort of dodgers for crew in conditions like this??
Does anyone know the sighting tool they are using? The yellow portable one? Thanks! Great video!
In an interview a few years later, Ian Walker said he was quite happy this Azzam burnt to the ground ....
Every boat in this leg of the race but one suffered a major structural failure in this race - so wrong, and unnecessary. There may be a design problem and or quality/production problem involved in of each of these failures, but those are not the root problems. The REAL problem is a YACHT RACING CULTURE and a DESIGN RULE that places absolute speed above the qualities of seakindliness and SEAWORTHINESS. The result are the engineering monstrosities you see on display here, incredibly fast but intrinsically unseaworthy vessels.
When 'Tony' C.A. Marchaj wrote his seminal "Seaworthiness: the forgotten factor" [revised edition: Adlard Coles Nautical, 1996] back in 1986 there was already a long history of yacht racing disasters attributable to modern yacht design: Admiral's Cup of '77, Fastnet in '79 and others. He outlines in great mathematical details the problems inherent ultra-light displacement, overly beamy, and over-canvassed yachts. The situation has only become more and more extreme in the last two decades. To this devil's brew has been added light weight composite construction techniques that simply cannot stand up to the incredibly high dynamic and impact loads placed upon them.
This situation has transferred too much RESPONSIBILITY of the security of the vessel and safety of the crew upon the skill of the crew, 'safety' systems, and the availability of outside assistance - NOT GOOD.
Unseaworthy is now the new normal - we'll see how long sponsors are willing to put up with the situation - or rather pay for it. Unfortunately this unhealthy attitude is spilling over into more conventional production boats and more casual sailors - also not good.
What is REALLY wrong is how yachtsmen remain willfully blind to the flaws they build into their yachts in the MAD QUEST for pure and unlimited speed. Racing on the open ocean is exciting and challenging at any speed, the desire to do so at an arbitrarily high speeds is motivated only by vanity.; the Southern Ocean will be obliging to punish you for that sin. There is ALWAYS a wave out there that can obliterate your vessel, that is a simple fact of life; the Volvo 70 boats and others like them [IMOCA Open60] have moved into the realm where they cannot handle the stresses of the wind, waves, and weather that are well within the range of normal and survivable for a yacht of that general size but heavier displacement - and smaller rig - and more lateral area in the underwater body.
But these are really clever fellows [and gals now too] aren't they? they've considered every little angle, "The only forgotten factor is seaworthiness".
i am no specialist in boats and yachts at all.
i would guess these boats here are like the Formula 1 of the yacht world.
if thats the case, i think it is absolutely reasonable to have so many failures. they are stressed to their limits for the last 0,1% of speed, and things will fail.
and like in real F1, technology passes through to the everyday cars/boats. obviously not streched that much to their limits, but in more reasonable and safe proportions.
again, i am not stating hard facts here, just my opinion by comparing this to the motorsports world
the only thing i am sure about is that carbon fiber is definitely stronger than wood or other synthetic materials. with the proper wheaving and "baking" it is almost indestructible. it is all about finding the weak spots over time and eventually understanding the different design needed to achieve a totally reliable carbon fiber body
Not really a good analogy in my opinion. The F1 cars race short races on a closed course during the daylight in good weather - and even there rules are regularly adjusted when the body count becomes unacceptably high.
A better analogy might be the Paris-to-Dakar Rally in a hurricane where the terrain can kill you within minutes if you happen to step out of your car. Try taking a F1 car on a course like that. The Americas Cup would probably be a better comparison to F1 auto racing, but then again look at the most recent 2013 AC and the AC72 class boats: expensive, dangerously unstable, fragile, safe under only very limited weather conditions - but incredibly fast. [and, btw, in violation of the original Deed of Gift which stipulated that the competitors all sail to the regatta on their own bottoms] My point again about an ethic of arbitrarily fast speed being the only concern left.
For thousands of years boat design was based on an ethos that your boat was supposed to keep you alive - not kill you. Now it seems yachting has turned into an extreme sport where, in the pursuit of Vanity, the security of the vessel and the lives of the crew are consider to be almost completely expendable. Its time, in my opinion, for SANE yachtsmen to push back against this trend - its not healthy for the sailors, the sport, or yachting in general.
Automobile racing, in my opinion, because it is a modern invention has always centered itself around a fascination with cheating death and watching other people die - more than a little crazy. Sailors on the other hand have always understood that the ocean can ALWAYS raise the bar higher than you can jump, and that skill, LUCK, and a sound boat are all required to survive what the sea can dish out to you.
As for carbon fiber in marine applications, we are only beginning to learn how to use that material appropriately in high performance yachts. If you are interested in the problem check out:
SPECTRUM SLAM FATIGUE LOADING OF SANDWICH MATERIALS FOR MARINE STRUCTURES; Magnus E. Burman, Anders G. Rosén and Dan E. Zenkert, KTH - Aeronautical and Vehicle Engineering 100 44 Stockholm, www.ave.kth.se
best regards,
W^3
William Reymond
i will not disagree with what you say, since i have no knowledge to do so.
yes, maybe paris-dakar is a better comparison. but even there, out of 100 cars that start the race, more than half never reach the finish line due to failures
i will just note that when F1 first used carbon fiber there were a lot of failures and it kept evolving, until we reached the point where they are almost indestructible.
i guess the yacht section will have to go through this procedure as well, although, as you said, the stakes are much bigger when you are in the middle of the ocean
My main point is that for an ocean going yacht your life is constantly dependent upon your yacht being able to maintain its structural integrity. Becoming a 'casualty' risks not only your own life, but very directly the lives of anyone else required to render you assistance and not merely cost and inconvenience.
An auto race like the Daka is based on a presumption that if you break down or wreck your life isn't immediately imperiled once you get out of your vehicle, that repairs & etc. can be undertaken in relatively safe conditions and nobody is likely to be put at much risk simply by coming to your aid. This is not the case on the Southern Ocean.
It's a bit of an irony that the Paris to Daka is now just The Daka Rally and has been conducted in South America since 2009 because the situation on the ground in Africa became too dangerous - not to mention the number of Africans being killed by the racers apparently.
To push yacht design forward based solely upon a the vainglorious notion of arbitrarily high speed has lead to a situation that, in my opinion, is just getting stupid.
These yachts were going to pieces in conditions that were well within the range or normal - for the Southern Ocean. The main culprits, in my opinion, in this situation are a design rule that allows for an over reliance upon three things: overly beamy, overly canvassed yachts; extensive use of advanced composite materials to achieve performance; and external 'safety' systems to keep the crew alive when the boat [inevitably] fails.
The VOR design rule was contrived first to allow for yachts to achieve an *arbitrarily* high speed; seaworthiness and sea-kindliness were relegated to secondary design characteristics. At least that's how I read the rule.
As a sailor I find this set of conditions intolerable.
regards,
W^3
i agree with dimos
I think that is the idea with every boat build. Was the old rule to make the boats only half as strong? heheh
holy shit that was awesome.
are these boats made of paper or something?
hard work
Ian Walker on Volvo Russian Sailing Week смотри в youtube
Русские проводят одноименную лубительскую гонку. На ней бывают звезды с Volvo Ocean Race
my dream job
It seems that way. They are made of the best,strongest carbon fibers but they engineer it to be as light as possible so when a stronger material is discovered they just make the hull & structure thinner & lighter instead of designing in a margin of safety. In my opinion that's great for racing boats that are close to shore & rescue crews but in races where they are in remote areas & a rescue could be days away that's crazy. I'm sure there are some build guidelines but IMO they have gone to far
yeah, slow and steady wins the race
Southern ocean looks scary.
Awesome it not nearly enough!
I'm curious... how so?
28:50 whats the name of the song please ?
Are these yachts so delicate because the engineers have sacrificed a proportion of the durability/weight so they can go faster? Surely normal superyachts are more tougher than these right?
+6969SpAcE6969 Strength is an important factor with how extreme these yachts are going to pushed. Everything is designed for a well balance between light and strong. The carbon epoxy and actual carbon fiber are tough material and disperse stress better than conventional material. These boats are however designed to allow the crew to push it past the point of reliable use. The relentlessness these approach these races with just beats the shit out of the boat. Your average production cruiser won't allow you to push the yacht to its own destruction like these thoroughbred racing designs can. The teams knows that's what it takes to win a competition like this.
This takes balls to do. I would be scared as shit.
Why the hell did I have to confirm my age for this? Age restriction for sailing? WTF xD
maybe they confused the sailing with brazzers...
they made a new rule where boats have to be stronger
Fascinating stuff it's true but the sailor and boat builder in me just can't relate to all these breakages. The bottom line is that these boats just aren't strong enough for the conditions they find themselves in and the hard way they are sailed. Maybe the consensus is that these failures add to the drama but to me it simply demonstrates a chronic lack of respect for the sea.
no designers, sacrificed strength for speed.
I have to say the exact opposite of you. These guys have spent their entire lives on the sea and they respect it very much. There are even certain "words" that they will not say because of maritime superstitions. The fact is that they HAVE to push the limits of machine and man in order to have a "chance" of winning. They know what they are doing every second. To say they don't respect something is disrespectful of them.
They still make them out of Carbon Fiber. Hull and Deck....
Not sure I understand your point about being superstitious. Are you trying to suggest that they respect the sea because they do not use superstitious words?
I appreciate your point about having to push the limits in order to win but every failure reduces their chances of winning.
Also I would add that I did not say the sailors lacked respect. I place the blame more at the door of the designers and rule makers. I have nothing but deep respect for the guys who go to sea in these fragile craft.
Negligent to race with such unsound boats.
wtf that rigs are chit
needs more duct tape
...
Ia it rubbish design or construction or what, yachts should not break this often and this easily.